>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in Rochester, where becoming a homeowner is perhaps more challenging than ever.

Between the hot market, the low supply, low inventory and affordability issues, homeownership is not attainable for many people.

The issue raises a question what is affordable?

What is affordable housing?

According to the U.S.

Department of Housing and Urban Development, it's housing for which the occupant is paying no more than 30% of their gross income.

But when it comes to lived experience, the definition may seem more nebulous.

A study of housing citywide in 2018 showed that the rate of rent burdened people in Rochester has been high compared to the rest of the country, as that study from the Fairport based firm Kcsb reports.

Low incomes, not high housing costs, are at the root of affordability challenges in Rochester, although, of course, housing prices have been going up and despite the cause, what can be done to expand access to affordable homeownership for people across our region and across the city of Rochester, as reported by WXXI Brian Sharp, a focus on the question in the Jozanna neighborhood has led to significant new housing development over the last 20 years, and the housing stock there is about to grow a bit.

A partnership between Cornerstone Group and the Rochester Land Bank is expected to produce 15 single family houses and attached townhouses.

The new units will join 91 rental units in Jozanna, along with 60 houses built by Greater Rochester.

Habitat for humanity and, as Brian Sharp writes, the latest project will bring the total new housing development to 185 units and more than $40 million invested, according to city records.

We're going to talk about all of this and more this hour with our guests.

Investigations and Enterprise editor for WXXI News.

Brian Sharp is back with me for a few minutes here talking about his reporting.

Hello.

Welcome.

Hello.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

Next to Brian is Eric Frisch, deputy commissioner for the Department of Neighborhood and Business Development for the City of Rochester and chair of the Rochester Land Bank board.

Welcome back to the program.

>> Thank you for having me, Evan.

>> And welcome across the table to Brian Ryan Brandt is Ryan is vice president of development for Rochester's Cornerstone Group.

Thank you for being here.

And Scott Benjamin, CEO of Charles Settlement House and Community Place of Greater Rochester, welcome to you as well.

>> Great to be back.

>> So, Brian, the story here in Jozanna, as we mentioned here, 15 House, essentially 15 houses, 15 houses, townhouses.

>> And attached townhouses.

>> Attached townhouses.

And the number I thought I saw in your reporting, $127,000 price tag for the new houses.

Is that right?

>> Average.

>> Okay.

That's a that's an average.

So it wasn't that long ago, Brian, $127,000 would have been around the market average for Rochester.

I mean, it wasn't 1970.

That was true.

It was within our lifetimes here or even in the last generation.

It's not now.

$127,000 is much below what most people can find.

the I guess the question is, is it going to be affordable to some?

But what stands out to you in the city's effort in Jozanna here?

>> I think it's I mean, so I arrived in Rochester in 2000, and.

>> I have to tell you this, grab that microphone, get it closer.

>> You guys.

Sorry.

So yeah, I got here in 2005.

Scott was one of probably the first people that I met because they were building the soccer stadium.

Then and the Bob Duffy was running at that time for mayor, and jozanna was a focus for housing development at that time.

you know, I think I wrote in here, it was like 30 some the equivalent of 30 some football fields of vacant property in this neighborhood.

That's not that big.

and just to see all the housing that has been built, I remember going for, I think one of the cornerstones previous ribbon cutting or something.

And there was between that construction and the habitat construction, it's just when you think of 185 units being built in a neighborhood of, I don't know how many square blocks.

>> It's only it's only about 30 blocks.

>> Yeah.

Is is significant.

It used to be walking, you know, you'd walk down and there'd be streets.

That was just all bollards.

posts and vacant lots.

So it's really transformed that area.

>> is that a fair description there?

>> Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

He's right, because the I don't think we even realized how bad it was until we worked with the city to do the Josiana master planned.

And that's when graphically, they put that together, that it was 30 or 31 vacant.

football fields just blows you away to think there was that much vacancy in such a small area.

>> Coming up here.

We're going to welcome Glenda Torres, who's a housing navigator for Charles Settlement House.

I know you know Glenda well.

Yes, we had a conversation last night that and our second half hour, we're going to get into more.

But one of the interesting things is, you know, Glenda is someone if you work as a housing navigator, you get to know the wide range of apartments.

So you see what they've done in the old Hickey Freeman.

You see what they do in places where you feel like a landlord shouldn't even be showing a place.

It's a huge, huge range for rentals, let alone buying somewhere new.

But Scott, when it comes to Johanna, do you think that I mean, I think that there's probably a market to buy houses everywhere, but is there a market to buy in?

Johanna and do you think that it will change the character or improve the character of the neighborhood?

>> Well, I think there will be a market that might not have been back before.

All the habitat building and the stadium estates and so on.

But I think there definitely will be a market for it now, and it will be a great addition, because we know that owner occupied helps neighborhoods in general.

Johanna is a neighborhood that still has some people that have lived their entire lives in that neighborhood and have never left.

so it'll be great to have new people, new families coming in.

>> And, Brian, you know, in your piece, as you mentioned, you could sit at the stadium at one point and just look out and see all the empty space, just kind of roll.

It looked like rolling acres of empty space for a while.

>> And when Scott's talking about people who've lived there, I remember that was one of my first instances of seeing you would go and talk to the neighbors who and the folks who've lived there all the time, and they would look out on those same vacant lots and be like, well, so and so lived here.

And then we had this was down there and then this.

And they would that neighborhood was still visible to them.

and, you know, I got here in so many things at that time downtown.

Bob Duffy would famously give this speech.

I was off getting off the bus at Main and Clinton.

You'd smell the nuts roasting and all this and everybody, the whole room would start murmuring because there was this, this past that, you know, of when Rochester was not empty.

And, you know, we're getting we're getting back to, I guess, not back to we're moving to a new place where we're we're filling in those hollowed out.

>> And it's great to see.

>> So let's ask Eric Frisch for a little bit of a vision for Johanna here.

So we're talking about a lot of change in a neighborhood.

And I think maybe a decade or two ago there was this idea that the stadium would change things sort of automatically.

And I don't I mean, I think that we can say that that didn't happen.

Right?

That's a fair starting place.

>> It's fair to say the stadium maybe hasn't turned out as it was initially intended, but it's still an asset.

Still an asset to the community.

>> Okay.

So what's the vision for what this neighborhood can realistically become?

And tell me about this particular set of housing.

>> Well, I think I think what we just talked about, you're watching that vision come to reality.

the fact is as as Scott said, this is a place where you can expect a healthy market for owner occupied housing, right?

Those those vacant lots, although there are still a number, which is why we're able to do this project.

but they are much fewer and further between.

And actually, Johanna has a great, base from which to build from.

Now, if you look at the numbers and you look at the blocks that exist of, of owner occupancy, of owner occupied housing, you actually see, it's, it's, it's got a good place to grow from where if we make smart investments such as this Rochester Roots program, we can increase that home ownership rate.

and potentially get that above 50%.

A number of blocks here that has a tremendous effect on the stability of the neighborhood and stability of those blocks.

and puts positive pressure on, on blocks surrounding it.

>> One thing I was going to throw in, and these guys can can speak to that too.

It also speaks to the importance there's been a lot invested in that school that's there, and it's a true neighborhood school.

and what a difference of an anchor that makes for that neighborhood.

>> Yeah.

School 17 is a neighborhood community school.

Now, it hasn't been a straight line for that.

It was in receivership, went out.

There are some struggles.

They've but they've and they've changed the demographics now and and the makeup of the school.

But it's still a community school with other partners in there.

Charles House is one of the partners.

Charles House Neighbors in Action works a lot with the school trying to to bring events there.

And so on.

And it's got many more students who do live in the neighborhood.

And and at one point it was down to, you know, well, under 10% of the kids actually were from that neighborhood.

And that's turned around.

And that makes a difference of keeping people involved and keeping it vibrant around the school.

>> So before we let Brian cut out of here and get back to work upstairs here let me just make sure I'm up to date on some of the details here.

So we said, Eric, 127,000 is the average price for for the new homes.

Is that right?

>> That sounds right.

>> Okay.

Right.

and obviously now that is much below what you're going to find for buying a new house.

So people listening might say, when exactly are these coming online here.

What is the timeline?

What's a fair timeline here?

>> actually, I'll defer to to Ryan Brandt, who's the developer behind this project who can maybe give you some of those details.

>> So we're our goal is to to break ground and start construction and start pretty quickly.

The first quarter of 2026. we just had a key city council approval.

I think Tuesday evening proving that the actual formal sale of, of the majority of the parcels, there are some that actually the land bank owns that are going to be built on.

and then there was a, a home loan some funds that the city is putting into the project that were approved.

so our goal is to start it'll be weather dependent a little bit, as we can all feel the weather's turning a little bit, although today, today doesn't feel like it, but our goal is to get in there, really start digging basements in February, maybe into March, and start hitting probably every 2 to 3 weeks.

Start digging another couple basements.

So so the, the homes would actually come online fall of 2026 when, when we'd start having, you know, the first the first ribbons cut and the first keys given out.

>> Fall of.

So just under a year from now.

Right?

Realistically.

Yeah.

>> Okay.

It'll it'll be kind of be staggered into 2027.

Our goal is to finish sometime around the summer of 2027 with the, you know, 14th and 15th homes.

But the first homes were our goal is to get people in fall of 2026.

>> All right, Eric.

So for the people who remember the conversation just a few weeks back when we were talking about a different neighborhood in Rochester, and we were talking about factory built houses, there's a lot of talk about modular or factory built, some flavor of that, not necessarily the same thing here.

>> Not the same thing, same thing here.

These are these are more traditional stick built.

>> Stick.

>> Built homes and and all the things that you would expect to have in a, in a city home.

>> So on the map here, Brian Sharp, I've been told that developers can't build stick built homes and stay in business anymore.

So what question?

I've got questions about the math here.

Did you?

>> Well, there's I mean, there's a budget, and I didn't come down with that, but this also has Arpa, the federal COVID relief money comes in here and there's different subsidies, there's loans, there's things to be able to.

But these guys can talk better about how that budget comes together.

to be able to make these, yeah.

>> Make the numbers work.

>> The numbers work.

>> Yeah.

Go ahead.

>> Eric.

Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a variety of funding sources employed here.

it's very similar to what you'd find with our buy the Block, program.

Right.

So in buy the block, as I'm sure you know, you know, delivering traditional stick built homes in city neighborhoods for affordable home ownership.

and we employ a variety of sources.

As Brian mentioned, there's the American Rescue Plan Act, or Arpa dollars that really help to be the first dollars in on that and make these projects happen.

But then the state has come out with a different funding programs as well to assist with subsidies for affordable homeownership through either the Affordable Homeownership Opportunity Program or Ahop or the Block by Block program, which is a newer program.

So you put those sources together.

It helps to subsidize the, the, the sale price to get that down to that $127,000 number that you mentioned before.

>> And one thing again, I'm trying to the the other deal is that these this this isn't just where, oh, these monies are going.

And some new buyers are going to, you know, make out with this cheap house.

That house has to stay even if they turn around and sell it within X number of years, it has to still go to someone that's income qualified.

So it stays 50.

>> To 60%, 50 to 60%.

I think you said in your reporting of the area median income, is that is that the right number?

>> Eric?

it's got to be below 80%.

Ami and then we're targeting that 60%.

>> Okay.

>> Right.

And that's for like 20 years, right?

>> Yeah.

There will be an affordability period.

Right.

There'll be some deed covenants and restrictions that are on it.

So it's not going to be a you know, sold to an investor who's going to then come in and make it rental housing again.

So that's that's really, I think all the funding sources, the state, the main funding sources, the state, the city, the county they're all going to have those covenants in place to make sure that that doesn't happen.

>> Forget the source.

What is the overall cost to build a new stick built house in Rochester?

>> Yeah.

Well, right now we're looking at these ones will cost about half $1 million each.

>> That's the number we always hear is right around.

And that's accurate.

So right around half $1 million.

Yep.

And to the extent that there is criticism of I haven't heard criticism of this, some members of council, not a majority have criticized by the block, saying that's just an inefficient way to do it.

And I'm sure you've heard that, Eric, that this is half $1 million houses, not huge quantities subsidized by the city.

There's got to be better ways here is, is this do you feel like this is a good investment or a doable investment for all the partners involved here?

>> Absolutely.

A good investment.

these are homes that we know will be solidly built.

They will appreciate and they will be great homes for families for for many years to come.

So that's a great investment, right?

For the community, for the people who will live in those homes both now and into the future.

And of course, for the city as a whole, by increasing homeownership it's it is expensive, right?

It is expensive to do, which is why we were talking just a few weeks ago about looking at other ways to deliver homes so that, you know, we can have a variety of different ways to deliver affordable homeownership, whether naturally or through subsidized means.

>> But why not in this case?

No offense to Ryan and Cornerstone, but why not do factory build in this case?

Why are you doing stick built?

>> So well, one this this project has been talked about for, for a number of years.

And here we are finally, at that point where we can start to prepare for groundbreakings.

to we know that we want homes that are going to be consistent with the neighborhood character.

we don't want to have, you know, these are scattered sites, right?

So where we're talking about manufactured homes, we want to make sure that those are located in contextually appropriate locations.

there's a lot of opportunity for that to happen in existing neighborhoods where we're taking a lot here, a lot there and providing infill.

We want to make sure that we're delivering homes that fit with the context and the character of the community.

>> Okay.

Any other questions you have?

Brian Sharp before I cut you loose here?

>> no, I'm just realizing I think Cornerstone is also the story I'm going up to work on is about Bullshead, and you guys are also coming in on there with another single family.

>> House looking to partner with USC builds and the developed Grok group that's been working on that for years and years and years.

There's been a lot of work behind the scenes.

And we're we're just we just jumped in in the last 4 or 5 months to that to that partnership.

>> So I was just I guess I was asking that because of contextually.

Is that also stick build?

>> That's that's what we're starting with.

It's still a little bit to be formed.

we had a call this morning actually that was on.

So we're still we're still putting that together and looking at because that is a little bit different scenarios.

As Eric said, this is infill scattered site with Rochester roots and Joanna bull's heads a little bit more of a clean palette where you're kind of creating a neighborhood center right in the middle of a traditional neighborhood.

So there's there's still a couple of key, key decisions we have to make over there.

And that's that's certainly something to weigh, right, Brian?

>> Yeah.

No, I know you threw a curveball there, but it was just it was just curious about if that fit in.

But no, I think you got the you know, you got the experts here and the folks who've been in the neighborhood and doing the work.

>> Go back to work then.

All right.

Brian from WXXI News, we're going to take our only break of the hour.

When we come back, we're going to bring in Glenda Torres, who's a housing navigator for Charles Settlement House.

We'll take some feedback if you've got questions, comments, listeners, as we talk about this is I would put this in part of a growing toolkit that the City of Rochester and partners are using to try to create more housing and try to create more housing that might be more in reach for people who feel like a lot of the current stock is out of reach.

So we're talking to a panel about that and Joanna, but I think it applies to the bigger picture story in Rochester.

And we'll come right back on Connections.

>> I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections, the A.I.

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Could you recognize an A.I.

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We're going to play some for you, especially the ones that are charting now.

We'll see if you like them and what we think it means for the industry.

Friday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Let me squeeze in a call from Charlie calling from Seneca Falls.

Hey, Charlie, go ahead.

>> So I used to work for Barton Homes 50 plus years ago as an engineer.

I have a bias in building, and right now I'm watching a house be built in my neighborhood.

They started framing on the basement back in September.

They haven't got the whole thing dried in yet.

And it's not some fly by night.

It's a very competent builder.

You know?

Yes, he's going to have a beautiful house when he's done, but Barton could have built that house and it would have been dried in, dried in means it's closed up.

There's a roof on it.

It would have been dried in in three weeks.

Stick building is nice, and I don't oppose it.

But if you want to be economical, trying to stick build is the most expensive way you can go.

A manufactured product Barton would buy lumber and railcars every week.

A rail car would come in, they would buy windows and rail cars.

They would turn a house out in a few hours.

It would take a week to assemble it on site.

So when you bad mouth manufactured, you're not really looking at the whole story.

>> I want to say, Charlie, I don't think anybody here is badmouthing, manufactured homes at all.

and if you listen to a previous program, I think Eric was on and we talked about a different Rochester neighborhood that is seeing factory built homes.

it was the opposite.

I mean, it was a lot of love for a solution that might be more economical.

I think you heard Eric say that in this case, this is different than saying we're creating a new neighborhood.

We've got a chance to kind of paint on a blank canvas.

This is an area where there have been a lot of empty lots.

you know, one of those parts of town where there are a lot of there's a lot of disrepair and houses torn down, but around them exist neighborhoods.

And so, Eric, part of what you were saying was, number one, there's been a development for a long time, this deal.

And you want to meet the character and that this, in your view, is the best solution for that.

Is that fair?

>> I think that's fair.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we know how to they certainly know how to do it.

and we don't have to think about, you know trucks and access and, and overhead wires and cranes that put the home in place or whatnot in these areas.

So there's more that comes into it, but absolutely not.

Not bad mouthing manufactured homes.

That's a part of the solution.

and we really look forward to partnering with Cook Properties and other developers and builders in the future.

On those.

>> There's not a I mean, maybe there's more than I realized, but I, you know, for the future housing stock that has not been built yet in Rochester, do you think a majority or a plurality is going to be modular or factory built, or do you think it's it's still likely to be more stick built.

>> Probably too soon to say.

And I think we have to we have to see where things are headed.

But you know, the, the the industry does seem to be coalescing around factory built as a solution to some of the challenges that we face in the home building industry.

We're going to keep we're going to keep being part of that and try and be on the leading edge of that.

>> All right, let me grab one more call.

Thank you there, Charlie, for that phone call.

Chris and Geneva.

Hey, Chris.

Go ahead.

>> hi, Evan.

It's Chris again.

This is two calls in a day.

and again, another topic that is recent.

and relevant to me.

So my wife and I had a property in Newcomb, New York, which is way up.

some people say in the middle of nowhere, and I say in the middle of everywhere.

and it burnt to the ground.

So we already have the property.

We already have the site.

We already had a house there, and we rebuilt the house.

We used a modular home, which was made in a factory in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

It was brought up and delivered to the property.

It is now done.

It took two years and that house is now done.

That house, just the house alone, cost twice as much as the original house.

The six outbuildings and the property itself.

60 acres of property so I'm wondering if if the costs that I'm hearing on your show about having having a house stick built or even modular built if your prices aren't a little lower than expected, and also the amount of work that my wife and I had to do to have this cookie cutter menu house a two bedroom, one bathroom home I think it was 1200 square feet.

the amount of work we had to do on that my question is, in Rochester, who's going to be managing all of that?

Who's going to be managing the site preparation?

And the and who's going to be paid?

I mean, who's going to be paying for all of that?

If my house cost, I'm not going to lie, if it cost half $1 million, who's going to pick up the slack?

And the last question I want to get on with your show.

We found out from the insurance company, that insured us for 20 years at that property.

We found out in the last moment they don't insure a modular home or I'm sorry, they don't insure a home built in a factory.

>> Factory?

>> Yeah.

So who's going to insure these homes?

If you do go with the modular or factory like home?

I mean, who's going to insure those homes?

You're going to have to do extra work for that.

So three questions.

The cost, the work involved and organizing all of the process and the insurance of the home when it's done.

how is that all going to work?

I mean, I'm literally looking forward to the answers so.

>> I can.

>> So I can figure out what I did wrong.

>> I don't know that you did anything wrong.

>> First of all, I'm really sorry about what you went through, and I don't think you did anything wrong.

Certainly tariffs and building supplies and all kinds of costs are putting pressure pressures upwards in your situation.

Might have been a little bit different.

but I'm going to ask Ryan and Eric to kind of jump in here.

So of the three questions there, Ryan, he's a little thinking, like, if I paid half a million for a modular home.

>> mm-hmm.

>> Half a million for a stick built.

That is the number I hear a lot.

Stick built half a million, a lot less than the city of Rochester, at least for modular or factory built homes.

Do you want to talk about cost first there.

>> Go ahead.

>> Sure.

Evan.

Yeah.

And it's I think one of the one of the challenges, too, is and I'm sure Chris knows this from just having gone through this, a lot of the cost is is below the ground.

And that's you know, the site work and the utilities, I think is one of the things that's really driving our cost.

And I think, I assume a lot of these other infill projects, The chosen, a neighborhood in particular, it's one of the oldest sections of sewers in the entire city.

It's old stone box sewers.

I couldn't believe it until I saw it.

It literally looks like a chimney is laying down in the middle of the street.

That's, you know, where some of the sewer Connections look like.

So almost everyone is going to have to be completely rebuilt.

the, you know, the, the lateral connecting it to the home about 60 to 80%.

Sometimes all the soil is going to have to from these homes is going to have to go to waste management to a landfill.

That's because they're all previously previously built upon.

many of them were demoed decades and decades and decades ago where maybe there wasn't the same type of standards or oversight that the city has today and the demo.

So there's a lot of them just have the the house.

I remember one of the neighbors for the stadium estates, rental homes we did five, seven years ago with Scott.

said, there's a home down there pointed at the grass.

We said, no, no, no, we're going to put a home here.

And they said, no, there is a home down there in the grass.

And sure enough we digging up its cinderblocks, its windows.

It looks like the whole home.

This is again, 30 years ago was the demo.

The whole home was just kind of put into the ground.

So even if it's not to that extent for everyone, there's there's obviously a very high degree of environmental testing that we're required to do.

And so all of this is going away to the landfill.

It's pretty expensive.

So we're.

>> Chris is wondering how you keeping costs even at half $1 million.

>> Right.

So that so of that half a million, it's it's probably about 100, 125 we're estimating is just below the ground.

Just the not even all the site work, but getting the excavation done, the surface soil scraping and taking landfill.

and then the utility connection.

So but to echo Chris's thoughts, it's.

Yeah, it's the it's a different type of subcontractor.

I think you're working with, with a, a single family home as opposed to multifamily, which we've done a little bit of to and commercial.

You're, it's a smaller set that they're, it's a probably a topic for a different day but really struggling with the replacement of the people aging out the workforce that's aging out of that.

Right?

So the naturally, the supply of those workers is going down.

The cost of labor is going up.

So it's tariffs.

There's so many different facets to it that it's as Chris said, it's there's a lot of sticker shock to it, and you're kind of falling out of your chair when you first hear it.

But that's we've called around to Evan, like you said.

And it's that's what we're hearing from others.

So.

>> And Ryan Eric on insurance he's wondering any issues with insuring again we're talking about in this neighborhood in stick built houses.

But he's talking about factory built, which is what we're seeing in some other parts of Rochester.

Any issues getting insurance for for those kind of homes?

>> Certainly not for the homes that are being delivered with with Rochester roots and with the manufactured and modular.

You know why we called it a pilot when we issued the RFP was we want to we want to get an understanding.

There aren't too many examples.

So we want to know how the market reacts to it, what the what the experience is that we all will have as we navigate that.

But the state is definitely pushing product, a manufactured product called Cross Mod through a program called Move in New York.

And they have indicated that the issues that, that Chris has raised related to title and to insurance there will be no concerns.

It will be treated just like a traditional home in that respect.

>> And he's wondering who's running, who's managing the builds here.

The properties.

>> You mean the construction part of it?

>> That's you guys, right?

>> Yeah.

Well, we're developer will certainly be involved in the Land Bank, too, but we're we've typically use Atlas contractors for.

We've done work up in, North Clinton area with the Iberoamerican Development Corporation and then the Plex neighborhood with Rochester Housing Authority and Providence.

But you know, Atlas contractors.

So we've typically used as construction manager.

>> And there's there's economies of scale there as well.

Right.

Because Atlas is also has also been the developer and buy the block and is working on the the newly broken ground for, for the first Genesis project as well.

So atlas is is knows what they're doing and and they can deliver a lot of product in a relatively short amount of time.

>> Yeah.

And it's not my expertise, Chris.

But when you're in the middle of everywhere, as you say, or the middle of nowhere, perhaps and you're getting one product that's different than, you know, 15 in a neighborhood.

So there's different scales, but we certainly wish you luck, Chris.

Hope that helps.

I'm going to ask Scott Benjamin to introduce Glen de Torres, because Scott thought Glenda would be someone we should meet here.

And Scott, of course, CEO of Charles Settlement House and Community Place of Rochester, Glen de Torres, who, by the way, hello, Glen de Torres, grab that microphone, get real close to it.

Glen is a housing navigator for Charles Settlement House.

And Scott, tell us a little bit about Glenda.

>> Well, Glenda came to work for Charles House.

less than a year ago in a program that we're doing that helps with rental assistance and placing people that are have either been homeless or at risk of being homeless and helps find and get them set up in housing.

And so she has both some lived experience with trying to navigate and find affordable housing.

And now she spends 7.5 hours a day tracking down suitable places for families to live.

>> Well, Glenda, we're glad to have you here.

And why don't you tell us a little bit about what it is like out there when you are seeing you see a wide range of, for example, even just apartments.

What is the market like right now?

>> Well, it's very high.

I mean, one bedroom apartments are like $1,000.

I've seen a studio for $1,000.

I mean, it's really hard finding affordable housing.

It's ridiculous.

Prices are really high.

three bedroom, $2,000.

It's just expensive.

>> Really.

Very expensive.

>> Very expensive.

>> And, we talked a little bit last night about the fact that, you know, you can go into an old Hickey Freeman building.

You can see you've been in there, right?

Yeah.

What's it like there?

>> Apartments are beautiful.

They're nice, very nice.

>> And so there's a lot of sort of retrofitting and new housing online in different places.

You've also seen places that I don't think you would shy away from saying.

You're surprised.

Landlords are even showing at times.

>> Yes I have, I've told landlords, I can't believe you've shown this.

>> Just in terms of the quality of the cleanliness.

>> Just the condition of the apartment is just not even livable and they're still showing them to rent them out.

>> Probably because people need something in that price range, right?

>> Yeah.

Of course.

But I mean, it's just ridiculous.

I mean, you have broken doors, windows.

I mean, there's landlords.

I just can't believe that they just rent these apartments out.

And some people take them because they need them.

But I don't even know how they pass inspection.

>> how long have you lived in Rochester?

>> I was born and raised here.

>> Is this as hard as it's ever been to find affordable housing?

>> Yes, I think so.

I mean, the rent here is has gone up very much.

I mean, from the last time I remember renting like two years ago when I moved and it was like, I couldn't believe how high rent is.

It's really a problem.

It's not even it's finding them as well, because landlords, they're they want credit.

Credit has to be high.

You have to have good credit or they're looking.

>> For credit score.

They're looking for.

>> You have to have a 650 credit score.

That's like the lowest to take them.

And not only that the application fees are high for some, you know, for the tenants.

>> and some landlords want you to make three times the rent.

So if the rent $800, you have to make three times 1800 to even apply for the apartment.

I mean, you can't afford that.

>> Yeah, I know it can be discouraging.

Can you talk a little bit about your own experience, some of what you have been through?

>> Well, yeah, I mean, I was a homeowner before at the age of 23.

I've also lived in section eight.

I've had section eight for a couple years.

And I was just living in subsidized housing.

So I know the struggle of renting and the benefit of subsidized housing is also very good because it goes by your income.

So you can afford it.

The arginine, if it's included, it's even better because arginine is also so high right now.

>> There are times when people face either a change in their benefits, or they're on a tight timeline to find something that can be really, really stressful too, write.

>> Yeah, it's I have clients who are on the verge of losing their section eight because we just cannot find suitable apartments for them, and I've I'm on there all day looking and I'm trying, I'm trying.

It's just it's very hard.

>> So we're talking about houses and again not rental.

We're talking about people purchasing homes in JOSANA 15 new houses and townhouses going to average around $127,000 price tag, which is very low for the market these days.

overall.

So what do you what do you think when you see that kind of development?

>> Well, I mean, as long as the community gets more, you know, to give people, a lot of people want to own their own house.

Yeah, a lot of people, I mean, who doesn't want to have their own house?

But I just think that you know, as long as it makes a community more better and safer and, you know, because it's it's just that I don't know that it's better off owning a house right now than renting.

>> Sure.

>> I mean.

>> If you can afford to.

>> If you can afford to, yes.

I would definitely recommend that because it's just that the rent is so sky high compared to a mortgage price.

I mean, it's like paying a mortgage.

>> You've seen what's happened in just how tough it's been and how the city is making a real effort to turn things around.

>> Yeah, they are.

>> And are you are you skeptical that people would want to buy homes in Johanna right now?

>> a little bit, just, you know, I mean, it depends.

Well, because of the crime rate, it's the whole city is not only just, you know, so.

But we did an outreach in the summertime, and that turned out very well.

And, you know, when you get to meet the people in the community, it's like, you know, you just want better for them.

You just want better.

Like, you know, people just want to live and raise their kids.

And the safe community.

>> So and and when she mentions the outreach over the summer.

So we had a neighborhood picnic that actually had been on hold since COVID, and we brought it back this year and had over 400 people right across from the soccer stadium show up from the neighborhood.

And so it is a neighborhood that has a ton of challenges, but it still has so much character and so much community involvement and you know, like I've said, it's it's not been a straight line.

but the improvement overall, it just keeps trending up.

And we've got great people there that I think will turn out to be fantastic neighbors and will probably it will shock me if there aren't some of the people that are living in the neighborhood that won't be trying to buy some of those houses because they don't want to leave the neighborhood, and it is a way to find an affordable house.

>> Okay.

Yeah, good analysis there, Glenda.

What do you think?

>> Yeah.

I mean, when we had the Arbery, you could feel the love of all the neighbors together.

And it was it was nice.

And I think they will be the, people living there for the years who would want to buy or trying to purchase these new houses.

>> So I've got a couple of emails on the subject.

Wendy in the city says building new houses on the vacant lots in Johanna may be a good idea, but what is being done to make sure that elderly people who already own in Johanna can afford to keep up their roofs and other structurally important elements, so that we don't end up with more vacant lots?

Fair question.

Eric, do you want to start there?

>> Yeah, very fair question.

That's an important part of, of the puzzle of of maintaining and growing our, our owner occupancy rate is keeping people in the homes when they when they have them.

And we do offer a variety of home rehab and roofing programs to assist.

its income.

restricted.

Right.

So if you qualify we will review that.

And if, if and when funding is available, we can then offer, support to homeowners.

such as such has been being mentioned.

>> Anything you want to add there, Scott?

I think it's a good question.

>> Well, I think, yeah.

I don't know of particular programs just because we don't do that, but it's a huge it's a huge need.

somebody myself who, you know, is getting closer to retirement.

Last year, we went hunting for those very difficult to find ranch homes because we we didn't want a, you know, two story colonial anymore.

So I think that's a a big issue, not just in the city, but all the way around the community.

>> You are looking for a home at the hardest time, sir.

Well, we.

>> We found it and jumped on it.

Probably overpaid, but I'm five minutes from the grandkids, so I can't complain.

>> There you go.

I mean, and and I know what the city wants to do is create more of those opportunities for more people here.

Wendy, I think that was a fair question.

Thank you very much for asking.

another question from a listener on similar to Evan, similar to your last conversation in Marketview.

It was Marketview, wasn't it?

Marketview Heights was where the the.

last conversation, similar to the last question.

Last conversation about this in Marketview is this going to lead to gentrification?

So let's talk a little bit about that.

Glenda.

Is that a term you think about?

What does gentrification mean to you?

I'm curious.

>> I mean, yeah.

>> Okay.

Let's get Scott first.

We'll come back here.

>> I think, you know, when Stadium Estates was first opened, I remember the city saying in the next reassessment.

It was the first time in decades that property values in Jozanna actually had gone up.

But it was because homeowners that were there and some of the landlords actually started fixing up their properties.

But I don't think while it's become a a better neighborhood, a more stable that way, I don't think anybody has been priced out.

you know, I so I don't see that being a problem there.

and this sort of infill project, the nice part is you're not clear cutting and getting rid of all the old houses you're filling in and trying to find designs like we did with stadium estates to fit within the character of the neighborhood.

Not buying three lots and putting one giant house on it or anything like that.

>> Yeah.

Go ahead Eric.

>> Yeah, I would say that the problem, the main problem the city faces is not one of gentrification.

Right?

The one the main problem is one of creeping poverty.

we have to arrest the growth of poverty.

and we have to give our residents the tools to generate wealth for themselves and their families.

displacement is different than gentrification.

how.

>> Do you define gentrification?

>> Well, gentrification would be when property values grow and existing residents are then pushed out.

Right.

that's that's I think what how people view it.

but it's that second part.

It's the displacement part that doesn't have to happen.

Right?

If we're if we strategic and smart about investments, we can make sure that projects like this help to lift the community that exists.

Right?

So we're not bringing in high earners into a neighborhood and then pushing people out through this program.

Our goal is to serve demand from existing residents who want to stay, who have been shut out of the housing market, whether from the vestiges of redlining or the challenges of finding a home, let alone one that's affordable.

>> Yeah, I think that definition of gentrification is the right one.

And certainly in the past it has been more of a conversation that happens when there are new houses that don't fit the character or often twice the size of the average house on a street or in a neighborhood, and all of a sudden 2 or 3 times the value, and then you've got more people want to come in and flip or knock a house down and build, and you're starting to push people out intentionally to try to just drive values up for for flippers and for outside investors.

>> Well, the fact that there are income requirements for who's eligible to buy these will also you know, help combat that as well.

>> Yeah.

So for the person who sent that email, again, we should mention the 15 homes we're talking about in Johanna.

They're going to be built.

And apparently the first keys are going to be handed out in about a year.

And that's going to happen fast.

80, 80%.

Give me the numbers.

Again, Eric, in terms of area median income here.

>> The so these these homes need to be affordable at 80% Ami area median income or below.

We're targeting 60% area median income.

If you're asking me what is the number associated with 80, I'm not to be able to pull out.

But Ryan might.

>> Be able to.

The percentage.

That's exactly what I what was the percentage.

>> But it's a little over $80,000 is 80% Ami and then six.

It's kind of matches up because the area median income is a little over $100,000.

We know that's that's the area, right?

It's not the city of Rochester.

>> For a household.

>> Right.

Not just.

>> A single just an individual.

>> Yeah.

So those would be the limits.

Those would be the caps.

for for households that would be looking at Rochester roots.

>> And as you heard our guests say.

Ideally the buyers of these 15 homes are going to be around $60,000 combined household income.

Somewhere in that neighborhood.

So this is not a situation where it is intentionally just set up for flippers to try to make fast money.

Jack prices up, and then whoever has lived there for a long time has to deal with either much higher taxes, different valuations, or having to get out.

So I mean, of course we'll watch to see what happens, but I don't I think you're trying to insulate against that.

Is that is that that's one of the actual intentional.

Yeah.

okay.

Fair questions there.

So as we get ready to wrap here Eric, one of the questions we often have is, is anything going to derail this?

But in this case this looks like it's on track.

It's been a long time coming.

So it looks like the money's been allocated.

There's nothing that could kind of stop this particular development from happening.

Is that correct?

>> I think this train has left.

The station is on the tracks.

Okay.

>> So in this case and one of the things we talked about when we discussed factory built in market View was if if this is the start, as Michael Patterson as council member Patterson said of something that is new and a great new opportunity that is duplicable around town.

That is one thing.

If this is a one off and we don't really see much other development, then it's a nice story for 15 people.

But it doesn't change the market.

So same kind of thing here.

you're going market, you're going neighborhood by neighborhood, 12 at a time, nine at a time, 15 at a time.

Here.

you feel pretty good about the step by step of increasing supply and what you can do to the the prices of the stock.

You feel like the this will have an impact on prices eventually.

>> Definitely.

We have the experience already of having completed homes on Thomas Street.

and the initial by the block neighborhood in Konya in the northeast.

and we know that those homes are maintaining their value and it's helping with other owner occupied property values in the neighborhood and such that now, just a block to the east, we're seeing first Genesis break ground on 22 more affordable homes with a goal to do even more in the future.

Likewise, I would expect we are going to have more than enough buyers for these homes and that we will be looking at where we can make more investments in Jozanna to follow on.

>> Okay.

And from your perspective, Ryan Brandt anything that could get in the way with getting this project done?

>> I don't think so.

There's always weird things that can happen, you know, as closings until the final, you know, T's are crossed and I's are dotted on the closing documents were were always very mindful of that, but no, it's been it's been a tremendous amount of support from you know, the city and, you know, Eric and his team the county.

I don't know if we've mentioned, too, that the county, Monroe County, has allocated Arpa funds to this project as well.

So the county has been a big supporter.

And obviously the state, the state's housing finance agency, they're affordable homeownership program.

it's the same one that that many have used for the Greater Rochester Housing Partnership.

USC builds habitat.

Rochester management first.

Genesis.

So the you know, there's been a lot of it's been a kind of a winding road here to to construction.

and then ESL was the other funder.

I wanted to mention their community Initiatives program, stepped up and funded a gap that, frankly, grew over the past year.

as as prices continue to increase, it was ever shifting landscape of of what it was going to cost.

>> So are there still Arpa dollars?

I mean, isn't that what those dollars are going to be gone eventually, aren't they?

>> They have to be spent by the end of next calendar year.

>> Oh that's it.

Okay.

So they've got to be spent by the end of 26.

That's right.

I think I thought it was 25.

Okay.

So there's a plan to spend all the no one's going to leave Arpa dollars on the table.

I don't think.

>> Those will be spent.

Yeah.

>> No.

No extensions on that.

We've been told many times I understand that.

>> Yeah.

So as we get ready to wrap here, Glenda Torres, I'm going to turn to you because I think you, as a housing navigator for Charles Settlement House, you're working with people who have a wide range of desires and, frankly, ability to either pay or not pay for apartments.

But you said people eventually want to own homes, right?

Right.

When you talk to people and they're trying to rent, do people tell you this?

Do they say, you know, do they ask about are there any homes for sale?

Are there conversations about eventually owning what is that like?

>> Yeah, well, when they come in we do an intake in the intake.

There's questions like future goals and those are a lot of people's goals is, you know, one day they want to get a full time job.

They want to get their kids out of bad neighborhoods, and they want to be homeowners.

>> And do people feel lately like that's more unlikely?

>> Honestly, yes.

My clients.

Well, because of the of the everything being so high right now, I mean, from food to everything is just so high right now.

So it's like my clients, the ones that work, it's like they work to pay rent and that's it.

They barely can afford anything else.

So right.

>> Now, I think you said on the phone last night that, you know, you're working to, to rent.

I mean, literally just that paycheck is going to rent.

>> Yeah.

Me, myself, I pay $1,400 and I live in the 19th ward, so yeah.

>> Working.

And and then the word affordable is something we've talked about.

But for the average person who you work with, who are looking for places and you hear about affordable housing, do is that term confusing to people?

>> Most of the clients, they wanted to get subsidized housing.

subsidized housing.

That's what they're looking for by income.

But, you know, it's just not that easy to get in.

You have to do waiting list.

I mean, there's a lot of lotteries.

It's not something you can just say, okay, we'll do subsidized housing, but yeah.

Or because we when our intakes, we have a budget.

So we ask what is your budget.

So three bedrooms, 1200.

But that's not really possible, you know.

So if it's like a one bedroom, people say, well, $600.

And I tell them honestly, like, I don't think 600.

I mean, we can look, I'll try, but it's been very hard.

>> It wasn't that long ago that you could for 600.

A lot's changed in the last decade or.

>> So, especially my single.

My single client is is the worst because DHS only pays for 40.

So I can't even find a boarding room for for 40 550 starting.

So yeah, that's the hardest.

>> but are you hopeful that projects like this can make a difference?

>> I am, yeah, yes, I am.

I also think I'm educated as well.

As far as the budgeting classes and knowing how to maintain these new houses and and understanding that, you know, you have a big responsibility if you own a house, it's just not just saying you own a house.

You don't have a landlord anymore.

You're the landlord.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

>> You're in charge.

I see Eric nodding over there.

that educational piece is important, huh?

>> It absolutely is.

In fact, it's a requirement that we will have all of our buyers have to not only demonstrate that they can obtain a traditional mortgage but they have to go through homebuyer education classes so that they can do just the things that Glenda was talking about.

>> I didn't know that.

But that's great to know.

>> There you go.

Well, I can see, Scott, why?

You wanted Glenda to join us, and I appreciate I mean, you talk about someone who the work has to be heartbreaking at times because you want to help everybody.

I know, I know, you do.

and it's a step by step process.

Glenda, it's been great meeting you.

Good luck to you.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having.

>> Me.

Scott.

Benjamin over at Charles Settlement House and community place of Greater Rochester.

Great seeing you, sir.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Thank you for sharing your expertise and your experience here.

And to Ryan Brandt Rochester's Cornerstone Group.

Good luck with this.

Come back.

Tell us how it's going.

In about a year.

Maybe we'll meet one of the buyers.

>> All right, we'll plan on it.

Thank you.

>> Thank you very much.

And Eric Frisch, the door's always open.

Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Neighborhood and Business Development for the City of Rochester.

And president of the Rochester chair of the Rochester Land Bank board.

Thank you Eric.

>> Thank you Evan.

>> See you soon.

And from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for watching.

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