>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, UPHOLDING THE INDIAN CHILD WELFARE ACT.

HOW A RECENT DECISION BY THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WILL IMPACT TRIBAL NATIONS ACROSS AMERICA.

PLUS... >> Vallo: IT WAS REALLY GRATIFYING THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RECOGNIZED AND FINALLY HEARD THE VOICES OF THE NATIVE PEOPLE.

>> Gene: A FAN OF THE BAND.

WHY A CHACO PARK ADVOCATE SUPPORTS A RECENT DECISION TO END NEW OIL AND GAS LEASES IN THE SACRED AREA FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

AMERICANS EVERYWHERE CELEBRATED JUNETEENTH THIS PAST WEEK AS THE COUNTRY RECOGNIZED THE ANNUAL EMANCIPATION DAY FOR THE THIRD TIME AS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF TODAY'S SHOW, I TALK TO OUR OPINION PANEL ABOUT THE HOLIDAY'S HISTORY AND ASK HOW NEWS ORGANIZATIONS CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF TELLING THE WHOLE STORY OF NEW MEXICO'S BLACK COMMUNITIES.

JOURNALIST ED WILLIAMS LEFT PUBLIC RADIO FIVE YEARS AGO FOR AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING GIG AT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO.

SINCE THEN, HE HAS BURROWED INTO DEEP PROBLEMS AT CYFD.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES, SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS ASKS WILLIAMS ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT'S FAILURES TO MANAGE THE STATE'S FOSTER CARE SYSTEM AND THE VULNERABLE KIDS WHOSE CASES HAVE HAUNTED HIM.

BUT FIRST, WE HEAD TO OUR NATION'S CAPITAL WHERE THE SUPREME COURT DECISION ON A CHILD ADOPTION CASE WILL IMPACT TRIBAL NATIONS ACROSS NEW MEXICO AND BEYOND.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

WE'RE JOINED IN STUDIO THIS WEEK BY MICHAEL BIRD, A LONG TIME PUBLIC HEALTH CONSULTANT.

TRIP JENNINGS IS WITH US.

HE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH.

AND FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN IS WITH US, AS WELL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW, WE BEGIN THIS WEEK WITH A DECISION OUT OF WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE NATION'S HIGHEST COURT VOTED TO PRESERVE A SYSTEM THAT GIVES PREFERENCE TO NATIVE AMERICANS IN FOSTER CARE AND ADOPTION PROCEEDINGS INVOLVING NATIVE AMERICAN CHILDREN.

THAT'S THE POINT HERE.

THE SUPREME COURT RULED 7-2 TO UPHOLD BROAD SWATHS OF THE 1978 INDIAN CHILD WELFARE ACT.

THE STATE OF TEXAS AND THREE WHITE FAMILIES KICK STARTED THE CASE WITH A LAWSUIT CLAIMING THE FEDERAL LAW WAS BASED ON RACE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE.

NOW, THIS RULING REJECTS THAT CLAIM, AND MOST TRIBAL LEADERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE CELEBRATING THE COURT'S DECISION.

MICHAEL, WHY IS THIS DECISION SO IMPORTANT FOR TRIBES AND PUEBLOS IN NEW MEXICO, SPECIFICALLY?

WE'LL GET TO THE NATIONWIDE STUFF, BUT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WHAT'S THE BOUNCE?

>> Michael: WELL, I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE COURT RULED, ACKNOWLEDGED AND RULED THAT NATIVE PUEBLOS, TRIBES AND NATIONS ARE POLITICAL SOVEREIGNS, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS CRITICAL TO NATIVE COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF PROTECTING OUR PEOPLE, CHILDREN, PROTECTING OUR LAND, PROTECTING OUR RIGHTS TO WATER.

AND SO IT'S A VALIDATION -- NOT THAT WE NEED TO BE VALIDATED, BUT I GUESS SOME PEOPLE THINK SO.

BUT IT'S A VALIDATION, AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AND VALIDATION OF OUR LEGAL GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP, WHICH EVERYTHING IS PREDICATED ON FOR NATIVE PEOPLE.

IF, IN FACT, THE COURT WOULD HAVE RULED IN A DIFFERENT MANNER, IT WOULD PUT IN JEOPARDY SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT UNDERLIE TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY AND TRIBAL SELF-GOVERNANCE.

>> Gene: IT WAS A BIG DECISION IN SO MANY WAYS.

IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT THIS.

>> Michael: OH, THE IMPLICATIONS WERE MUCH BROADER.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

INTERESTINGLY, SENATOR, BEFORE ICWA, YOU KNOW, 95% OF NATIVE KIDS AT THE TIME, BEFORE THIS, WERE BEING PLACED WITH NONNATIVE FAMILIES.

95%, THAT'S A PHENOMENAL NUMBER.

SOMETHING HAD TO HAPPEN HERE.

>> Dede: IT'S SHOCKING.

IT'S SHOCKING, AND IT DATES BACK TO THE BOARDING HOUSES AND THE SNATCHING OF INDIAN CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM INTO ANGLOS.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS HAPPENED HERE IN NEW MEXICO, AND IT'S REALLY A GREAT RESOUNDING VICTORY BECAUSE IT WAS A 7-2 VICTORY, WHICH WAS REALLY GREAT.

AND IT REALLY DID, AS MICHAEL SAID, REALLY SPOKE TO THE SOVEREIGNTY ISSUE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, OH, THIS POOR FAMILY THAT ADOPTED THE NATIVE CHILD -- AND BY THE WAY, IT WAS A NEW MEXICO CASE.

IT WAS A NAVAJO CHILD, I THINK, A MIXED NAVAJO AND OKLAHOMA, I THINK MAYBE.

AND ANYWAY, HE WAS ADOPTED BY A TEXAS FAMILY, AND NOW THE TEXAS FAMILY WANTED TO ADOPT THE BROTHER.

SO EVERYBODY CAN SAY, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST RACIAL DISCRIMINATION THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO PUT THEM BACK WITH THE TRIBE OR THE ORIGINAL PARENTS, BUT THE GREAT ARGUMENT WAS, NO, IT CAN'T BE RACIAL DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE THIS IS ANOTHER COUNTRY.

THIS IS LIKE A CITIZEN OF ANOTHER COUNTRY, NOT A PERSON OF A DIFFERENT RACE.

I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY PRECEDENT.

THAT'S PRECEDENT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING, TRIP JENNINGS -- BY THE WAY, GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

THIS WAS THE THIRD TIME THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN UP AN ISSUE WITH ICWA, AND WHAT'S INTERESTING, AMY CONEY BARRETT WROTE THE MAJORITY OPINION ON THIS.

IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

TO FOLLOW-UP THE SENATOR, 7-2, SOME THINGS ARE JUST APPARENT OVER TIME.

BUT 2023, YOU KNOW.

>> Trip: WHEN I DIGESTED, WHEN I READ THE STORIES, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE KENNEDY REPORT IN 1969, WHICH WAS ABOUT SCHOOLS, AND THE MERIAM REPORT IN 1928.

THEY WERE TWO MASSIVE REPORTS.

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART ABOUT HISTORY, YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS HISTORY.

BUT IN THE REPORT, THERE WAS THIS LINE THAT SAID, BASICALLY, THAT THE BOARDING SCHOOL HISTORY WAS ALWAYS RELATED TO LAND POLICY, ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT LAND.

AND I SEE YOU SMILING, BUT I MEAN, I READ IT WITH THAT LARGER CONTEXT IN MIND, SORT OF SAYING, IT DID VALIDATE THE POLITICAL ENTITIES, WHICH WAS HUGE.

BUT ALSO KNOWING THE HISTORY MADE ME THINK, MAYBE THE JUSTICES WERE THINKING -- AND GORSUCH HAS SIGNALED THAT HE ACTUALLY DOES KNOW SOME OF THIS HISTORY IN THE PAST WITH, I THINK IT'S McGIRT.

IS THAT RIGHT, IN OKLAHOMA?

>> Michael: YES, OKLAHOMA.

>> Trip: AND THAT, YES, THE JUSTICE WHO WROTE THE MAJORITY OPINION PROBABLY SAW THIS AS KIND OF AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE.

>> Gene: DOES IT FEEL MORE SOLID BECAUSE WE HAD THAT?

>> Trip: I WANT TO SAY THIS, THAT IT DOES LEAVE OPEN A CHALLENGE ON RACE STUFF.

IN EVERYTHING I'VE READ ABOUT THAT, KAVANAUGH, ACTUALLY, JUSTICE KAVANAUGH MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT RACE COMING OUT, BUT I THINK IT MAY BE DOWN THE ROAD A WAYS.

>> Gene: INTERESTINGLY, ALITO AND THOMAS WERE THE TWO OF THE SEVEN, THE TWO THAT -- I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THEY WERE THINKING THERE.

BUT ANYWAY, PICK UP ON WHAT TRIP WAS SAYING.

IT LOOKED LIKE YOU HAD A POINT THERE.

>> Michael: YEAH, WHAT I WANTED TO SAY WAS THAT IF YOU REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS NATION'S HISTORY, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT 1492, I'M TALKING THE VERY BEGINNING OF WHEN -- THERE WERE PEOPLE HERE FOR OVER 23,000 YEARS, AS WE KNOW, BASED ON SOME EVIDENCE OUT OF WHITE SANDS.

SO THERE WERE PEOPLE.

THEY HAD THEIR OWN GOVERNANCE, THEY HAD THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.

AND IF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND, THERE ARE TWO FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENTS IN THIS NATION.

THE FIRST AND FOREMOST WAS THE GENOCIDE AND REMOVAL OF NATIVE PEOPLE, AND THIS HISTORY IS WELL DOCUMENTED, IF ONE WANTS TO KNOW.

THE SECOND FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENT WAS SLAVERY, AND THE HISTORY IS THERE IF PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW.

IF YOU'RE SEEKING TRUTH, YOU HAVE TO GO SOME PLACES THAT YOU MAY BE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH.

BUT UNLESS -- ANYTHING ELSE IS A FALSE NARRATIVE, BECAUSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF FALSE NARRATIVES THAT HAVE BEEN PROMULGATED OVER THE COURSE OF TIME.

YOU KNOW, "THE ONLY GOOD INDIAN IS A DEAD INDIAN."

"KILL THE INDIAN, SAVE THE MAN."

ALL OF THIS GOES BACK FOR 500 YEARS OF HISTORY AND POLICY, COLONIAL POLICY AND FEDERAL POLICY AS IT RELATES TO NATIVE COMMUNITIES.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S RELOCATION, IT'S ASSIMILATION.

I MEAN, THE BOARDING SCHOOLS AND THE REMOVAL OF INDIAN CHILDREN WAS TO BASICALLY ERASE INDIAN PEOPLE AS AN ENTITY.

THE GENOCIDE, ITSELF, THE PHYSICAL GENOCIDE THAT TOOK PLACE DIDN'T DO THAT, SO WHAT YOU SEE HAPPENING IS, IN FACT, THESE ASSIMILATION POLICIES.

YOU SEE BOARDING SCHOOLS, YOU SEE PROGRAMS OF TERMINATION AND RELOCATION.

THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO GET INDIANS OFF THE RESERVATION BACK IN THE '50s.

MY FAMILY WENT TO SAN FRANCISCO.

AND IT WAS TO SEPARATE NATIVE PEOPLE FROM THE LAND, PROBABLY THEN SAYING, WELL, IF WE CAN GET THESE INDIANS INTO THE CITIES, THEY'LL DISAPPEAR AND BECOME AMERICANIZED, AND THEN WE CAN PROBABLY MOVE IN ON THAT LAND.

BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE LAND.

>> Gene: THERE YOU GO.

I WANT TO STAY WITH YOU FOR ONE QUICK SECOND.

TRIP, I'LL GET TO YOU IN A QUICK SECOND.

LAND RIGHTS, DOMINOES FALLING OVER?

IS THIS JUST ONE DOMINO FALLING OVER HITTING NOTHING ELSE, OR IS THIS POSSIBLY GOING TO LEAD UP TO SOME OTHER ISSUES AT LEAST GETTING ON THE TABLE FOR SOME FAIR HEARINGS FOR NATIVE AMERICAN ISSUES HERE?

>> Michael: WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST THE CONTINUATION.

IT ALWAYS COMES BACK TO NATIVE PEOPLE, NATIVE RIGHTS, NATIVE LAND, NATIVE WATER, NATIVE SOVEREIGNTY, AND IT'S ABOUT SOVEREIGNTY.

AND WE ARE THE ONLY COMMUNITY, THE ONLY POPULATION -- YES, WE ARE A PEOPLE OF COLOR, BUT WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE TREATIES AND A GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS NATION, AND I DARE SAY THIS NATION HAS FALLEN SHORT IN TERMS OF FULFILLING THE TREATIES, FULFILLING ITS OBLIGATION TO NATIVE PEOPLE.

AMERICAN INDIANS TO THIS DAY, PRE-COVID, HAD THE HIGHEST MORTALITY AND MORBIDITY RATES OF ANY POPULATION IN THIS NATION.

SO MUCH FOR THE BLESSINGS OF CIVILIZATION.

>> Gene: BY THE WAY, TRIP, SPEAKING OF CHIPPING AWAY AT TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY, THERE'S OTHER REPUBLICAN LED STATES THAT WERE KIND OF GETTING IN ON THIS TEXAS THING.

TEXAS WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT -- SO I'VE GOT TO ASK AGAIN, DOES THIS POSSIBLY END THAT IDEA OF CHIPPING AWAY AT TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY NOW THAT WE'VE GOT SOME CLARITY?

>> Trip: I CAN'T PREDICT THE FUTURE, AND I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS LAW FIRM THAT WAS DOING THIS ALSO REPRESENTS OIL AND GAS COMPANIES.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAND.

THIS IS LAND POLICY AND WHAT MICHAEL WAS TALKING ABOUT.

THIS IS REALLY KEY.

I ALSO WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, THAT COMING FROM NOT BEING RAISED IN NEW MEXICO, BUT LEARNING A LOT OF THE HISTORY HERE, I THINK ALSO THAT LIVING HERE, YOU KNOW, I'VE LEARNED THE HISTORY THAT PRE-EUROPEAN, THERE WAS THIS VERY -- THE COMMUNITIES WERE VERY SOPHISTICATED AND THEY WERE HIGHLY ORGANIZED, AND THERE WERE TRADE NETWORKS FROM THE TIP OF SOUTH AMERICA UP TO ALASKA AND NORTHERN CANADA, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN THE MIDDLE EAST THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, AND EUROPE AND WHATNOT.

THIS IS PROBABLY -- HONESTLY, SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES IN NORTH AMERICA WERE MORE ADVANCED THAN PARIS AND LONDON.

SO I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO ARE RAISED WHO DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

AND IT'S EASIER TO SAY, WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THESE CHILDREN WHEN, IN FACT, GOOD LORD -- THAT'S MY SOUTHERNESS COMING OUT -- GOOD LORD, WHEN YOU READ ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES AND THE HOLISTIC TAKING CARE OF THE COMMUNITIES, I'M STILL LEARNING, BUT KIND OF IN AWE.

>> Gene: WE COULD LEARN A THING OR TWO ABOUT HOW COMMUNITY WORKS.

WE THROW THAT WORD AROUND A LOT IN MODERN TIMES.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW TO TALK ABOUT THIS PAST WEEK'S JUNETEENTH CELEBRATIONS AND WHAT THE HOLIDAY MEANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Williams: I'VE BEEN ON THIS BEAT FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS, OF CHILD WELL-BEING, AND THEY MOSTLY ARE ENTRENCHED.

THINGS GET WORSE, AND SOME THINGS GET BETTER.

AND SO THE PROBLEMS, THOUGH, I MEAN, ARE SO DEEPLY ROOTED IN NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVE ISSUES WITH ADDICTION, WITH POVERTY, WITH, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO EDUCATION, AND ALL THESE KIND OF PLAY TOGETHER, RIGHT, TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR, REALLY SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR CHILDHOOD.

>> Gene: WE'RE GETTING NEW REACTION THIS WEEK TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S 20 YEAR BAN ON OIL AND GAS LEASES IN AND AROUND THE CHACO CULTURE NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK.

INTERIOR SECRETARY DEB HAALAND CONSULTED WITH NATIVE TRIBES BEFORE ISSUING THE DECISION ENSHRINING A 10-MILE BUFFER SURROUNDING IT.

THE ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS, WHICH REPRESENTS 20 PUEBLOS, CELEBRATED THE ACTION SAYING IT WILL PROTECT CULTURAL HERITAGE, BUT THE NAVAJO NATION'S TOP LEADER, PRESIDENT BUU NYGREN, IS DISAPPOINTED.

HIS GOVERNMENT WANTED A SMALLER BUFFER, SAYING THE 10 MILES ELIMINATES ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES FOR MORE THAN 5,000 NAVAJO ALLOTEES.

NOW, THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT SAYS THE WITHDRAWAL ONLY APPLIES TO PUBLIC LANDS AND FEDERAL MINERAL ESTATES, NOT MINERALS OWNED BY PRIVATE, STATE OR TRIBAL ENTITIES, MEANING NAVAJO ALLOTEES CAN CONTINUE TO LEASE THEIR MINERALS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT ANTONIA GONZALES WANTED TO GET MORE CONTEXT AROUND THIS DECISION.

THIS WEEK, SHE SITS DOWN WITH THE CHAIR OF THE CHACO HERITAGE TRIBAL ASSOCIATION TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT'S DECISION MEANS FOR NATIVE TRIBES.

>> Antonia: BRIAN, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Vallo: THANK YOU.

>> Antonia: WELL, CHACO CANYON IN NORTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO HOLDS BOTH CULTURAL RESOURCES AND IS SACRED TO MANY NATIVE NATIONS.

PLEASE EXPLAIN AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ACOMA'S TIES AND OTHER PUEBLO COMMUNITIES.

>> Vallo: SURE, YES.

CHACO CANYON, OR [SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE] IN OUR LANGUAGE, IS ONE OF THE SIGNIFICANT SETTLEMENTS OF OUR PUEBLO PEOPLE.

OUR ANCESTORS, AT A TIME OF EMERGENCE, WERE INSTRUCTED THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME DESIGNATED STOPS ALONG THE MIGRATION BEFORE WE ARRIVED AT OUR PERMANENT SETTLEMENTS, AND THE INITIAL SETTLEMENT WAS THE MESA VERDE REGION.

AND THAT REGION IS QUITE VAST.

IT ISN'T ONLY IN THE MESA VERDE PARK PROPER, BUT IT EXTENDS EAST AND FURTHER WEST OF THE MESA VERDE REGION.

AND THEN YEARS LATER, THE ANCESTORS MIGRATED TO THIS PLACE CALLED [SPEAKS NATIVE LANGUAGE], AND IT WAS AT CHACO WHERE THERE WERE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WERE TO OCCUR.

AND IT WAS REALLY A TIME FOR OUR ANCESTORS TO REALLY ENGAGE IN THE SCIENCE OF THINGS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THESE MONUMENTAL STRUCTURES WERE BUILT.

THERE WAS A STUDY OF BOTH THE LUNAR AND SOLAR CYCLES THAT THEN INFORMED THE ADVANCEMENT OF CEREMONY AND OTHER CULTURAL AND RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES.

SO BECAUSE OF THOSE THINGS AND OTHER FACTORS, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT ANCESTRAL SITE.

WE HAVE TIES EITHER THROUGH CLAN OR PERHAPS THROUGH SOME SOCIETIES THAT CAUSE US TO RETURN TO CHACO MESA, A PHYSICAL RETURN BACK TO THE PLACE FOR PRAYER AND THE OBSERVANCE OF OUR RESPECTIVE CULTURES.

>> Antonia: AND YOUR WORK AS GOVERNOR ADVOCATING FOR THE BUFFER, NOT ONLY HERE IN THE STATE LOCALLY THERE, AND ALSO ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, SHARE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> Vallo: SURE.

WELL, MY WORK WITH THIS ISSUE BEGAN IN THE LATE 1990's WHEN I SERVED AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUEBLOS HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.

AND DURING THAT TIME, THE PUEBLOS WERE ALREADY ENGAGED, ALONG WITH OTHER TRIBES, IN ADVOCATING FOR THE PROTECTION OF CHACO, BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH ENCROACHMENT BY THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, THERE WAS CONTINUED EXCAVATION, ILLEGAL EXCAVATION OF OUTLIER SITES ASSOCIATED WITH CHACO.

AND SO THERE WERE SOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES AT THAT TIME THAT WERE CAUSING THIS CONCERN.

FAST FORWARD TO MY TIME AS GOVERNOR IN 2019 THROUGH 2021, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO REPRESENT MY PUEBLO IN THE DISCUSSIONS WITH OTHER PUEBLO LEADERS, THE NAVAJO NATION, AND OTHER TRIBES WHO HAVE A CULTURAL AFFINITY TO CHACO TO FURTHER ADVANCE THIS NEED, REALLY, TO PROTECT CHACO.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE ALSO SOME OTHER CONCERNS THAT BECAME PARAMOUNT, INCLUDING THE PROTECTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT, THE LAND AND THE RESOURCES THAT WERE BEING IMPACTED AS A RESULT OF FRACKING AND THE EXTRACTION OF RESOURCE FROM THE EARTH.

>> Antonia: SO THEN WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HEARD THAT SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, DEB HAALAND, TOOK THIS ACTION?

>> Vallo: WELL, I WAS VERY GRATEFUL, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, A LONG TIME COMING.

AND IT WAS REALLY GRATIFYING THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RECOGNIZED AND FINALLY HEARD THE VOICES OF THE NATIVE PEOPLE AND UNDERSTOOD WHY WE CONTINUED TO INSIST UPON THESE PROTECTIONS OF CHACO.

SO IT'S MONUMENTAL.

BUT WE ALSO REALIZE THAT THERE IS STILL SO MUCH WORK TO BE DONE.

I CHAIR WHAT'S CALLED THE CHACO HERITAGE TRIBAL ASSOCIATION, AND WE ARE TASKED WITH DEVELOPING REALLY THE FIRST EVER ETHNOGRAPHIC STUDY OF THE GREATER CHACO REGION FOR THE PURPOSE OF INFORMING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND ITS AGENCIES ABOUT THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PLACE AND THE SPACES THAT ARE CHACO.

SO, YOU KNOW, I GO BACK TO THE COMMENT EARLIER THAT THERE'S SO MUCH WORK STILL TO BE DONE, BUT THIS PROTECTION, AT LEAST FOR OVER THE COURSE OF THE 20 YEARS, PROVIDES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE AND INFORM, AND IT, YOU KNOW, REALLY SETS THE STAGE FOR ADVANCING THE DISCOURSE AROUND THE CULTURAL PROTECTIONS, BUT ALSO ACCESS TO THE RESOURCES, BECAUSE AS I SAID EARLIER, WE DO RETURN TO CHACO AND OUTLIER SITES FOR CULTURAL OBSERVANCES.

AND, YOU KNOW, TO ENSURE THAT THIS SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL RESOURCE IS THERE FOR OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

AND AS A WORLD HERITAGE SITE, A NATIONAL PARK, THAT IT CONTINUES TO BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC.

>> Antonia: SECRETARY HAALAND DID TRAVEL TO NEW MEXICO RECENTLY FOR AN EVENT THAT SHIFTED FROM THE SITE TO HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU WERE THERE.

WHAT DID SHE SAY TO YOU, AND WHAT SHE SAY TO THE OTHER GUESTS?

>> Vallo: WELL, SECRETARY HAALAND HAD A BIT OF A DAY.

YOU KNOW, THE INTENT WAS TO HAVE THE EVENT AT CHACO CANYON THIS PAST SUNDAY, BUT BECAUSE SHE AND OTHER TRIBAL REPRESENTATIVES WERE MET WITH PROTESTORS, THAT INCLUDED NAVAJO ALLOTEES, THE EVENT WAS CANCELLED AT CHACO AND WAS RESCHEDULED LATER IN THE DAY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AT THE BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS REGIONAL OFFICE.

AND IT WAS A GREAT OCCASION.

DESPITE WHAT HAPPENED EARLIER IN THE DAY, WE CAME TOGETHER TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS MONUMENTAL DECISION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND TO GIVE THANKS, YOU KNOW, TO OUR ANCESTORS, TO EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS EFFORT.

YOU KNOW, THE HARD WORK, THE PRAYERS AND THE DEDICATION OF MANY TO ENSURE THAT THESE PROTECTIONS WERE REALIZED.

I DID HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH SECRETARY HAALAND AND I JUST SAID, THANK YOU.

I ASKED HER NOT TO DWELL ON ANY OF THE NEGATIVITY, AND THAT SHE'S IN TOUGH PLACE, YOU KNOW, THAT SHE HAS A VERY IMPORTANT, BUT A VERY CHALLENGING JOB, AND THAT SHE WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS.

BUT I ASSURED HER AND REASSURED HER THAT ANYONE WHO WAS THERE, AND EVEN THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE WITH US ON SUNDAY, ARE PRAYING FOR HER AND ARE WISHING HER WELL, AND WE'RE ALL VERY HOPEFUL THAT AS THIS WORK CONTINUES, THAT OUR WORK AND OUR CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS THIS EFFORT WILL LESSEN THE LOAD FOR HER.

>> Antonia: AND I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

AS A TRIBAL LEADER, TRIBES OFTEN UNITE ON MANY ISSUES AND THERE ALWAYS ARE DIFFERING VIEWS, FROM NOT ONLY TRIBES, BUT INDIVIDUAL TRIBAL CITIZENS.

AND THE NAVAJO NATION HAS MADE AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT, AS A TRIBAL GOVERNMENT, EXPRESSING DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE BUFFER FOR VARIOUS REASONS.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> Vallo: WELL, I'M GRATEFUL THAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH PRESIDENT NEZ, PRESIDENT JONATHAN NEZ, ALONG WITH OTHER PUEBLO GOVERNORS TO CREATE AND INTRODUCE THE FIRST VERSION OF THE CHACO PROTECTION BILL, WHICH IS REALLY A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT ENSURES THIS LONGER TERM PROTECTION OF CHACO.

THAT LEGISLATION HAS JUST RECENTLY BEEN REINTRODUCED BY SENATOR HEINRICH AND REPRESENTATIVE CONGRESSWOMAN TERESA LEDGER FERNANDEZ.

ANY TIME LEADERS COME TOGETHER IN THIS WAY, I HAVE SEEN THAT IT IS VERY POWERFUL, AND IT'S A TRUE ACT OF OUR SOLIDARITY AND SOVEREIGNTY, AND OUR COMMITMENT TO UPHOLD OUR INHERENT RESPONSIBILITIES AS NATIVE PEOPLE TO PROTECT OUR RESOURCES, TO PROTECT OUR LANDS AND OUR CULTURAL RESOURCES, OUR SACRED PLACES.

BECAUSE, IN THE END, THESE SACRED SPACES WILL SUSTAIN, HELP TO SUSTAIN OUR LIVELIHOOD AND OUR FUTURE.

NOT ONLY NATIVE PEOPLE, BUT ALL PEOPLE.

SO I HOPE THAT MOVING FORWARD, THAT OUR LEADERS, INCLUDING THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE NAVAJO NATION AND OTHERS, WILL COME TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER, THAT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO COMMUNICATE AND NEGOTIATE IN TRUE GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, AND WITH A LEVEL OF LOVE AND COMPASSION FOR OUR PEOPLE AND THE CULTURES THAT HAVE SUSTAINED US FOR MILLENNIA.

>> Gene: OVER THE LAST THREE WEEKS, WE'VE CONTACTED THE NAVAJO NATION PRESIDENT'S OFFICE AND THE NAVAJO NATION COUNCIL SEVERAL TIMES TO GET THEIR SIDE.

WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RESPONSE.

MOVING ON HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, JOURNALIST ED WILLIAMS HAS HAD TO SHOVEL OUT FOR THE PAST YEAR, DIGGING DEEP INTO OUR STATE'S TROUBLED FOSTER CARE SYSTEM FOR NONPROFIT NEWS OUTFIT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO AND PROPUBLICA.

NOW, ED'S LAST HANDFUL OF STORIES HAVE REVEALED DEVASTATING ABUSES AND ENTRENCHED SYSTEMIC FAILURES WITH SOME OF NEW MEXICO'S MOST VULNERABLE KIDS BEARING THE BRUNT.

THE SERIES HAS LED TO THE BEGINNINGS OF REFORM AT THE STATE CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT, AND HE'S FAR FROM FINISHED REPORTING.

THIS WEEK, SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS ASKED ED WHY THE SYSTEM IS SO BROKEN AND WHAT IT MIGHT TAKE TO TURN THINGS AROUND, AND HOW HE'S MANAGED TO KEEP DIGGING AMID SO MUCH TRAUMA.

>> Laura: ED WILLIAMS, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> Williams: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Laura: IN YOUR REPORTING ON THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM, IN A NUTSHELL, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME, HOW ARE THESE KIDS DOING?

>> Williams: IT IS A MIXED BAG.

I WISH I COULD SAY THEY ARE ALL DOING WELL.

MORE FREQUENTLY, YOU KNOW, IT IS TRAUMA UPON TRAUMA UPON TRAUMA AND IT IS HEART BREAKING BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES I'LL WRITE A STORY ABOUT A KID AND THEN SEE THEM A YEAR OR TWO, THREE YEARS LATER, POP UP IN ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER REALLY SAD ISSUE.

SO, THESE ARE KIDS WHO NEED A LOT OF HELP AND IN SOME CASES THERE ARE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AGE OUT OF THE SYSTEM AND GET A JOB AND DO WELL.

AND IN A LOT MORE CASES, THEY JUST CONTINUED FACING A LOT OF HARDSHIPS.

>> Laura: READING YOUR STORIES, THERE ARE SOME KIDS AND TEENAGERS WHO I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO STOP THINKING ABOUT SINCE READING THESE STORIES.

WHO ARE SOME OF THE -- WHAT ARE SOME OF THE STORIES THAT STILL CONTINUE TO HAUNT YOU?

>> Williams: WELL, I MEAN, THEY ARE ALL PRETTY HAUNTING.

THE FIRST STORY I DID AT SEARCHLIGHT WAS ABOUT A YOUNG BOY, I THINK 11 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME AND HIS SISTER, WHO HAD BEEN PUT INTO A TREATMENT FOSTER HOME IN FARMINGTON.

THIS WAS LIKE A HOME THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE EXTRA MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, BE HIGHLY TRAINED.

AND IT ENDED UP BEING A REALLY BRUTAL CHILD ABUSE SITUATION.

THE FOSTER MOTHER WAS CHAINING THE KIDS TO THE BED, BEATING THEM SO BADLY THAT AT ONE POINT ONE HAD TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND THAT FOSTER MOM IS NOW IN JAIL FOR AN 18 YEAR SENTENCE.

BUT THE POINT OF THAT STORY WAS THAT CYFD WAS RENEWING THE LICENSES OF THESE COMPANIES EVEN WHEN THEY WEREN'T DOING BACKGROUND CHECKS OR ANY SORT OF SAFETY PROTOCOLS.

AND I HAVE SEEN THAT SAME BOY POP UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

IN FACT, THE LAST TIME, THE LAST STORY THAT WE WROTE ABOUT A SEXUAL ASSAULT OCCURRED AT THE CYFD OFFICE TURNED OUT THAT THIS SAME BOY WAS THE ROOMMATE OF THE SEXUAL ASSAILANT WHO ALSO, YOU KNOW, HIMSELF WAS A VICTIM.

HE WAS PLACED IN THE FOSTER HOME RUN BY GARCIA WAS THE LAST NAME OF THIS FOSTER PARENT, FAMILY WORKS WAS THE COMPANY, WHO WAS JUST A SERIAL PEDOPHILE AND HAD BEEN ABUSING YOUNG CHILDREN FOR TWENTY YEARS.

YOU SEE THE WAY THESE STORIES KEEP POPPING UP AND IT IS PRETTY HAUNTING.

SO, THEY ALL STICK WITH YOU.

THEY ARE STORIES THAT ARE HEART BREAKING BUT THEY ARE STORIES PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW.

>> Laura: HOW MANY KIDS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FOSTER SYSTEM THROUGH CYFD?

>> WILLIAMS: IT FLUCTUATES.

I BELIEVE IT'S AROUND 2000 LAST COUNT THAT I SAW.

I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

THAT IS A PRETTY BROAD NUMBER, THE NUMBER THAT WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSING ON LATELY ARE OLDER KIDS THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST NEEDS AND THAT IS A MUCH SMALLER NUMBER, YOU KNOW, IN THE HUNDREDS.

SO, THAT HIGHER NUMBER OF 2,000 CAPTURES SHORT STAYS, PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE IN THE SYSTEM BRIEFLY, THAT ARE FALLING IN AND OUT.

IT'S KIND OF A POINT IN TIME IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THAT NUMBER.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THESE KIDS, AND THERE IS ALSO A LOT THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION, BUT JUST HAVEN'T BEEN PICKED UP BY THE FOSTER CARE SYSTEM.

WE ARE NOT DOING VERY WELL IN NEW MEXICO FOR CHILD WELLBEING.

WE AGAIN RANK LAST IN THE COUNTRY IN THE KIDS COUNT.

>> Laura: YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND SOME OF YOUR STORIES FOCUS ON FARMINGTON, LAS CRUCES, ALBUQUERQUE.

IS THIS AN URBAN PROBLEM?

IS THIS A STATE-WIDE PROBLEM?

>> Williams: IT IS A STATE-WIDE PROBLEM.

THE POPULATIONS ARE OBVIOUSLY MORE CONCENTRATED IN ALBUQUERQUE AND LAS CRUCES AND SANTA FE, SO, YOU SEE MORE CASES THERE, BUT, THERE ARE ISSUES THAT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME IN RURAL AREAS, YOU KNOW.

THERE WAS A REALLY BAD CASE IN TUCUMCARI OF ABUSE OF FOSTER PARENTS SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

THAT IS A PRETTY SMALL TOWN.

YOU SEE THIS IN ROSWELL, CLOVIS, ALL OVER THE PLACE.

>> Laura: ARE THESE NEW PROBLEMS THAT YOU ARE REPORTING ON, DO YOU THINK?

>> Williams: I DON'T THINK SO.

I HAVE BEEN ON THIS BEAT FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS OF CHILD WELLBEING AND THEY MOSTLY ARE ENTRENCHED.

THINGS GET WORKS AND SOME THINGS GET BETTER AND SO THE PROBLEMS, THOUGH, I MEAN, ARE SO DEEPLY ROOTED IN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE ISSUES WITH ADDICTION, WITH POVERTY, WITH, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO EDUCATION, ALL THESE KIND OF PLAY TOGETHER, RIGHT, TO CREATE THE CONDITIONS FOR REALLY SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR CHILDHOOD AND SO THEY ARE COMPLEX, THEY ARE.

THEY ARE MOSTLY NOT NEW.

SOME THINGS, YOU KNOW, CROP UP HERE AND THERE THAT ARE NEW BUT FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE PRETTY ENTRENCHED.

>> Laura: I KEEP THINKING ABOUT A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN GOVERNOR SUSANA MARTINEZ AND PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN HER ADMINISTRATION DECIMATED THE STATE'S BEHAVIORAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

HAS THAT PLAYED OUT?

HAS THAT IMPACTED THESE KIDS WHO ARE SUFFERING TODAY?

>> Williams: ABSOLUTELY.

THAT IS A BIG PART OF KIND OF THE BACKGROUND FOR MOST RECENT STORIES WE ARE WRITING ABOUT TEENAGERS IN CARE.

THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SYSTEM WAS COMPLETELY DISMANTLED AND IT STILL HASN'T BEEN REBUILT.

SO, KIDS HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING HELP BECAUSE THE NONPROFITS THAT EXISTED TO HELP THEM WITH COUNSELING OR WHATEVER OTHER SERVICES, HAVE NEVER RECOVERED FROM THAT AND THERE IS STILL A LOT OF BITTERNESS FROM THE ONES THAT HAVE RECOVERED FROM THAT SHAKEUP, BUT THAT HAS CONTINUED TO PLAY OUT IN ALL KINDS OF UNEXPECTED WAYS AND WE ARE STILL VERY MUCH IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT PROBLEM WITH LACK OF PROVIDERS.

>> LAURA: YOU MENTIONED THOSE NONPROFITS.

PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THESE PRIVATE FOSTER CARE COMPANIES.

YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT SOME ABUSES LIKE LA FAMILIA NAMASTE IN FARMINGTON.

WHAT ARE THESE COMPANIES?

WHY DO THEY EXIST?

HOW DOES THE STATE VET THEM OR GIVE THEM CONTRACTS?

>> Williams: SO, WHEN IT COMES TO JUST STANDARD FOSTER CARE, THAT IS RUN BY THE STATE.

CYFD MANAGES DIRECTLY ITS FOSTER HOMES, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED TREATMENT FOSTER CARE.

TREATMENT FOSTER CARE IS A STEP UP.

IT IS USUALLY BETWEEN FOSTER CARE AND RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT.

THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE THERAPEUTIC, HIGHLY TRAINED FAMILIES THAT OFFER KIND OF A HOME ENVIRONMENT WHERE A KID CAN RECEIVE SERVICES FOR PSYCHIATRIC OR MENTAL HEALTH NEEDS THAT ARE TRAUMA RELATED.

SO, I THINK THIS IS PRETTY STANDARD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND THE STATE DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO RUN THAT ITSELF.

IT IS RUN BY NONPROFITS, SUCH AS LA FAMILIA WHICH IS NOW CLOSED.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT HAVE CLOSED IN THE RECENT YEARS.

THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A WAY FOR KIDS TO BE IN A HOME ENVIRONMENT AND STILL RECEIVE THOSE KINDS OF, YOU KNOW, HIGHER LEVEL CARE.

BECAUSE A KID NEEDS TO BE IN A HOME ENVIRONMENT TO, RIGHT, TO ACTUALLY HAVE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES WORK.

RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT IS ANOTHER OPTION BUT THAT HAS LOTS OF PROBLEMS ITSELF.

SO THE STATE LICENSES THESE COMPANIES AND EVERY YEAR IT GOES IN AND DOES AN AUDIT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWING SAFETY PROTOCOLS.

THAT IS EVERYTHING FROM MAKING SURE THERE IS FENCE AROUND THE SWIMMING POOL TO CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AND SO FORTH.

SO, THE STORY THAT WE DID, THIS WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO NOW, FOUND THAT THE STATE WAS BASICALLY RUBBER STAMPING THOSE RENEWALS EVEN WHEN IT WAS FINDING MASSIVE SAFETY VIOLATIONS.

THERE IS ONE COMPANY CALLED FAMILY WORKS WHICH RECENTLY CLOSED AFTER SOME INVESTIGATIONS BUT WE COUNTED HUNDREDS -- LIKE I THINK IT WAS ALMOST 300 VIOLATIONS THAT THE STATE HAD IDENTIFIED AND CONTINUED TO RENEW ITS LICENSE ANYWAY.

AND, THEN, YOU KNOW THERE WAS A HIGH PROFILE CASE OF A PEDOPHILE FOSTER PARENT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT BY THE SAFETY CHECK PROCESS BUT WASN'T.

SO, THAT IS TREATMENT FOSTER CARE.

NONPROFITS ALSO RUN YOUTH HOMELESS SHELTERS, YOU KNOW, DROP IN CENTERS, COUNSELING PROGRAMS, THEY ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF CARE IN THE STATE.

>> Laura: YOU MENTIONED 300 ABUSES.

AROUND THEY LIKE FENCES AROUND THE SWIMMING POOL OR ARE THESE LIKE CHAINING?

>> Williams: IT IS CALLED A SAFE HOME STUDY.

SOMEONE WILL GO IN FROM THE LICENSING DEPARTMENT WITH A CHECK LIST AND MAKE SURE, YES, IF THERE IS A SWIMMING POOL DOES IT HAVE A FENCE AROUND IT SO A CHILD COULDN'T FALL IN.

ARE THERE LIKE COVERS ON THE ELECTRIC SOCKETS, LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT IT IS ALSO SUPPOSED TO DO BACKGROUND CHECK, CRIMINAL HISTORY CHECK, COURTS CHECK, MAKE SURE THERE ARE NO CRIMINAL RECORDS, CHECK FOR FIREARMS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS AND IF THERE ARE RED FLAGS THAT AREN'T SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, A BUNCH OF LAWSUITS OR PROBLEMS LIKE FINANCIALLY, THAT WOULDN'T DISQUALIFY SOMEONE BUT THEY SHOULD BE SCRUTINIZED MORE, SO THAT IS KIND OF THE PROCESS.

IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE STATE LICENSING.

THE CYFD LICENSING DEPARTMENT SETS THE STANDARDS AND INSPECTS THEM AND MAKES SURE THEY ARE BEING COMPLIED WITH.

WE FOUND THAT WAS NOT HAPPENING VERY OFTEN.

>> Laura: YOU ALSO HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT FOSTER CARE, KIDS AND TEENS ENDING UP IN HOMELESS SHELTERS.

WHY IS THAT HAPPENING?

AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM IN THOSE SITUATIONS?

>> Williams: YEAH.

SO YOU MENTIONED THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SHAKE-UP OF 2013.

EVER SINCE THEN, THERE HAD BEEN A LOT OF KIDS THAT WERE PLACED IN RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTERS.

THESE WERE LIKE INPATIENT BASICALLY PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS FOR KIDS.

BUT THE STATE HAD BEEN SHUTTING DOWN THE MAJORITY OF THOSE BEDS FOR QUITE A WHILE.

DESERT HILLS WAS THE FIRST, AND THERE WAS YHA, BERNALILLO ACADEMY.

AND SO WE LOST MOST OF THE RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CAPACITY.

THERE WERE LOTS OF PROBLEMS, ABUSES, GOOD REASONS TO SHUT SOME OF THOSE PLACES DOWN.

BUT THAT LEFT AN ENTIRE POPULATION OF REALLY HIGH NEEDS, MOSTLY TEENAGE FOSTER YOUTH, WITHOUT A PLACE TO GO.

THE STATE HAD PROMISED TO BUILD LIKE A NEW SYSTEM OF BEHAVIORAL COMMUNITY-BASED HEALTH CENTERS FOR MENTAL AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH.

THAT HADN'T HAPPENED.

THERE WAS STILL A SHORTAGE OF FOSTER HOMES, SO WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS A POPULATION OF KIDS THAT WAS DISPLACED.

WE WANTED TO FIND THEM.

AND SO WHERE WE FOUND THEM, YEAH, WAS IN THESE YOUTH HOMELESS SHELTERS.

THESE ARE RUN BY THE SAME NON-PROFFER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.

THEY'RE NOT BAD PLACES, THEY'RE JUST MEANT TO HOUSE A RUNAWAY TEENAGER FOR A DAY OR TWO WHILE THE PARENTS CAN FIND THEM.

IT'S A VERY SHORT TERM PLACE THAT A KID IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

SO CYFD WAS JUST WITHOUT A SPOT TO PUT ANY OF THESE KIDS.

THEY COULDN'T FIND A FOSTER HOME.

AND SO THEY WERE EITHER LIVING IN THE CYFD OFFICE, OR THEY WERE LIVING IN THESE HOMELESS SHELTERS, WHICH DON'T PROVIDE PSYCHIATRIC SERVICES, THEY DON'T PROVIDE ANY SORT OF HIGH NEEDS MENTAL HEALTHCARE, ASIDE FROM MAYBE A COUNSELOR THAT'S ON-SITE.

SO THE KIDS WERE, YOU KNOW, BEING DROPPED OFF, SOMETIMES DIRECTLY FROM PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS.

A CYFD WORKER WOULD PICK A KID UP FROM THE HOSPITAL DISCHARGE AND DROP THEM AT A HOMELESS SHELTER, AND THEN LEAVE THEM THERE UNTIL THERE WAS SOME SORT OF CRISIS.

YOU KNOW, A SUICIDE ATTEMPT, SOME BIG OUTBURST, THE KIDS WOULD RUN AWAY, AND THEN A WORKER WOULD BASICALLY PICK THE KID UP AND THEN TAKE THEM TO ANOTHER SHELTER.

AND THIS IS CALLED THE SHELTER SHUFFLE, RIGHT.

THEY'LL BE PLACED IN SHELTER AFTER SHELTER THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

AND SOME OF THESE TEENAGERS ARE SPENDING THEIR ENTIRE TEENAGE YEARS IN THE SITUATION, WITHOUT A STABLE PLACE, WITHOUT ANY SORT OF ADEQUATE MENTAL HEALTHCARE, AND THEY WERE JUST HAVING ONE CRISIS AFTER ANOTHER.

EVERY SINGLE DAY, VIRTUALLY, A SHELTER IN NEW MEXICO CALLS 911 FOR HELP WITH A KID IN FOSTER CARE.

>> Laura: WOW.

YOU MENTIONED FOSTER FAMILIES, FOSTER HOMES.

IN A STORY, I THINK IT WAS LAST YEAR, YOU WROTE THAT ACROSS THE U.S., THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF FOSTER HOMES AND EVEN FEWER FOR TEENS.

HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THE NUMBER OF NON-RELATED FOSTER HOMES WILLING TO TAKE TEENAGERS HAS DECREASED 44% SINCE 2018.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS?

>> Williams: THERE'S BEEN A NATIONAL DECLINE IN FOSTER HOMES.

PART OF IT IS THAT IT'S A REALLY, REALLY DIFFICULT JOB.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE FOSTER PARENTS, WHO HAVE THEIR HEART IN THE RIGHT PLACE, BUT IT'S HARD.

THE KIDS AREN'T GIVEN THE RESOURCES A LOT OF TIMES THAT THEY NEED, SO, YOU KNOW, FOSTER PARENTS A LOT OF TIMES FIND IT HARD TO DEAL WITH.

WE GET A LOT OF TIPS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BASIC PROBLEMS, INCLUDING MISTREATMENT OF FOSTER HOMES AND FOSTER PARENTS BY CYFD, BUT I THINK IN A KIND OF MORE BROAD SENSE, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF EFFORTS NATIONALLY AND AT THE STATE LEVEL TO REDUCE THE USE OF FOSTER HOMES.

I MEAN, THERE'S AN ARGUMENT, AND IT'S AN UNDERSTANDABLE ONE, THAT KIDS DO BETTER IN A FAMILY PLACEMENTS, SO LET'S TRY TO PUT THESE KIDS -- LIKE, LET'S NOT TAKE THEM AWAY FROM THE FAMILY, LET'S TRY TO WORK WITH THE FAMILY AND KEEP THEM IN THAT FAMILY SETTING AND NOT PUT THEM INTO FOSTER CARE.

THERE'S A FEDERAL ACT CALLED THE FAMILIES FIRST ACT THAT INCENTIVIZES STATES TO DO THAT.

THE GOVERNOR HAS INDICATED THAT THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTS, AS WELL.

AND SO THERE'S KIND HAVE BEEN A SHIFT AWAY FROM TAKING KIDS AWAY FROM THE FAMILY, WHICH USED TO BE KIND OF THE KNEE-JERK RESPONSE.

THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT, WE'VE BEEN SEEING LATELY A LOT OF CASES WHERE KIDS ARE BEING PUT BACK IN VERY DANGEROUS SITUATIONS WITH THE FAMILY, AND THERE'S BEEN SOME TRAGIC OUTCOMES THERE, TOO.

>> Laura: ZOOMING OUT KIND OF MORE BROADLY, THERE'S SO MUCH TALK I FEEL LIKE IN OUR CULTURE ABOUT CARING FOR CHILDREN, LOVING CHILDREN, BUT IT REALLY, IT SEEMS TO ME, EITHER LIKE LIP SERVICE OR THAT AS A SOCIETY, WE'RE SAYING WE CARE FOR SOME CHILDREN, BUT NOT OTHERS.

AND I WONDER SORT OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT AS YOU'VE BEEN REPORTING ON THIS FOR SO LONG.

>> Williams: YEAH.

THERE HAS -- I MEAN, IT'S A PERENNIAL CAMPAIGN ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO, LET'S FIX OUR DISMAL CHILD WELL-BEING SITUATION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, NOTHING EVER SEEMS TO CHANGE.

AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, THESE ARE THE KIDS THAT COME FROM MARGINALIZED SITUATIONS, MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES VERY OFTEN.

I MEAN, THERE'S A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF NATIVE AMERICAN CHILDREN THAT THIS AFFECTS, AND OTHER GROUPS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOCIETY HAS MISTREATED IN A GENERAL WAY.

AND SO THE WAY THAT THESE PROBLEMS PERSIST, I MEAN, IT IS FRUSTRATING AND IT IS UPSETTING, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THERE ARE SOLUTIONS OUT THERE THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT.

I MEAN, WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT THAT THE STATE SIGNED THAT IF IT COMPLIED WITH THE TERMS OF THAT AGREEMENT WOULD REALLY DO A LOT TO SHIFT THIS PARADIGM THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN.

BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO SAY YOU'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAN TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW THROUGH.

AGAIN, LIKE I THINK WHAT WE SEE SOMETIMES, LIKE IN THE CASE OF THE RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTERS BEING SHUT DOWN, IS THAT IT'S EASY TO DISMANTLE A SYSTEM.

THIS ALSO HAPPENED WITH THE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SYSTEM IN 2013.

BUT THEN BUILDING UP, DOING THE WORK TO BUILD AN ALTERNATIVE, THAT'S WHERE WE DROP THE BALL.

AND SO WE SEE A LOT OF LOSS OF SERVICES, A LOT OF LOSS OF THINGS THAT COULD HELP THESE KIDS, AND NOT VERY MUCH MOMENTUM IN BUILDING AN ALTERNATIVE THAT COULD FILL IN THE GAP.

>> Laura: YOUR REPORTING HAS HAD A LOT OF IMPACT IN THE STATE, AND I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK IT IS A REPORTER'S JOB TO POSE THE SOLUTIONS OR FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX ALL THE PROBLEMS.

LIKE, OUR ROLE IS TO REPORT.

BUT I HAVE TO ASK YOU, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST THINGS THAT YOU THINK WE NEED TO DO?

AND, I MEAN, DOES THIS REQUIRE, LIKE, A REORDERING OF OUR SOCIETY?

>> Williams: WELL, FORTUNATELY IN THIS CASE, THERE'S ALREADY BEEN A SOLUTION THAT'S BEEN PRETTY WIDELY PRAISED.

THAT'S THE KEVIN S. SUIT.

THIS IS AN AGREEMENT -- KEVIN S. WAS A PLAINTIFF IN A CLASS ACTION CIVIL RIGHTS SUIT AGAINST THE DEPARTMENT THAT REALLY OUTLINED ALL THESE PROBLEMS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THAT KIDS ARE JUST SHUFFLED BETWEEN INAPPROPRIATE AND DANGEROUS PLACEMENTS, THEY'RE NEVER GIVEN STABILITY, AND THAT THEY EXPERIENCE ALL THESE CRISES ALONG THE WAY, IT COMPOUNDS THEIR TRAUMA.

SO THERE WAS A TEAM OF ATTORNEYS AND EXPERTS, INCLUDING DR. GEORGE DAVIS, WHO IS THE FORMER CHIEF OF PSYCHIATRY FOR CYFD, THAT REALLY HAD AN AMAZING -- I MEAN, A VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT RUBRIC THAT WAS DEVELOPED TO CHANGE THIS PARADIGM.

AND THE STATE AGREED.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM DID WAS TO SIGN THIS AGREEMENT AND TO COMMIT TO SERIOUS CHANGES.

SO THE EASY ANSWER HERE IS THAT THE STATE COULD JUST COMPLY WITH THE SETTLEMENT THAT IT'S ALREADY DONE.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE A HISTORY IN NEW MEXICO OF HAVING SETTLEMENTS AGREEMENTS THAT DRAG ON FOR DECADES.

I HOPE THAT'S NOT THE CASE HERE.

>> Laura: SO, YOU ARE A FATHER, AND I'M CURIOUS HOW DOING THIS WORK OVER THE COURSE OF FIVE QUERIES HAS AFFECTED YOUR HEART, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR LIKE OUTLOOK ON THE WORLD.

>> Williams: BEFORE I HAD KIDS, THIS WAS A LOT MORE ABSTRACT.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IT'S ALWAYS HEARTBREAKING TO READ AN AUTOPSY REPORT OR POLICE REPORT WITH A CHILD WHO HAS ABUSED AND THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.

BUT NOW, YOU KNOW, I TUCK MY KIDS INTO BED AT NIGHT AND THEY'RE OKAY, AND YOU THINK ABOUT HOW MANY KIDS ARE NOT OKAY AND IT STRIKES ME AS VERY UNFAIR.

>> Laura: CERTAINLY UNFAIR.

THERE ARE THESE SORTS OF ROAD MAPS AND PRESCRIPTIONS FOR GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US?

I THINK ONCE SOMEBODY KNOWS, AND LIKE I'M A MOM, ONCE I READ YOUR STORIES, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO?

>> Williams: I GET THIS QUESTION A LOT, AND WHAT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING IS LIKE, I DON'T REALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.

LIKE, THE OBVIOUS THING, CALL YOUR LEGISLATOR, FOLLOW THE NEWS.

THESE ARE SUCH COMPLEX QUESTIONS.

I MEAN, SOMETIMES THERE'S AN EASY FIX, SOMETIMES IT'S SOMETHING THE GOVERNOR CAN DO WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER OR THE LEGISLATURE CAN PASS.

THERE WERE A LOT OF BILLS AND A LOT OF ENERGY LAST SESSION THAT WERE AIMED AT FIXING THIS.

MOST OF THEM GOT VETOED BY THE GOVERNOR.

BUT I THINK THAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY, AND I THINK STATE GOVERNMENT IS A PLACE WHERE ACTUALLY YOU CAN GET THROUGH TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND THEY WILL LISTEN TO YOU.

THERE ARE NONPROFITS OUT THERE THAT MAKE THIS THEIR LIVES WORK, ADDRESSING THESE PROBLEMS AND HELPING THESE KIDS, BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THESE ARE SITUATIONS THAT ARE JUST SO EMBEDDED AND SO DIFFICULT TO FIX, IT'S LIKE ASKING, HOW DO YOU SOLVE POVERTY?

YOU KNOW.

I WISH I HAD EASY ANSWER, BUT I DON'T.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORTING.

I APPRECIATE YOU, ED.

>> Williams: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR ONE LAST SEGMENT.

THIS PAST WEEK NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE CELEBRATED JUNETEENTH, RECOGNIZED ON JUNE 19TH.

THE RECENTLY DECLARED FEDERAL HOLIDAY MARKS THE EFFECTIVE END OF SLAVERY IN THE U.S., WHEN THE NEWS OF THE UNION'S VICTORY IN THE CIVIL WAR FINALLY REACHED SLAVES IN TEXAS.

THAT WAS TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS AFTER THE FACT, THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION WAS SIGNED.

ACCORDING TO GALLUP POLLING, THIS IS INTERESTING, JUST 37 PERCENT OF AMERICAN ADULTS SAID THEY KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT JUNETEENTH IN 2021.

THAT'S OF COURSE THE YEAR IT BECAME A FEDERAL HOLIDAY.

NOW ONE YEAR THAT NUMBER DOUBLED TO NEARLY 60 PERCENT.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

THIS YEAR, GROUPS ACROSS NEW MEXICO HELD CELEBRATIONS, EVENTS DURING THE THREE-DAY WEEKEND AND, SENATOR, RANGING FROM BLACK LEADERSHIP DISCUSSION OF ROSWELL TO CHOIR PERFORMANCE IN ALBUQUERQUE, PRETTY GOOD STUFF.

LET ME KICK THIS BACK TO TRIP.

I GOT A BETTER QUESTION FOR TRIP.

YOU'RE ORIGINALLY FROM GEORGIA.

LET ME GO THERE.

DID ANY OF THIS CAPTURE THE SPIRIT AND PURPOSE OF JUNETEENTH, BECAUSE YOU GREW UP AROUND A LOT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE IN ATLANTA THAT GEORGIA.

>> Trip: LET ME SAY THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT JUNETEENTH UNTIL RELATIVELY RECENTLY BECAUSE IT WAS KIND OF A TEXAS THING THAT ACTUALLY DID RADIATE OUT TO COMMUNITIES OF PEOPLE WHO THEIR ANCESTORS HAD MOVED ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY BUT THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I NECESSARILY KNEW ABOUT AS AN OBSERVANCE AND WHATNOT.

I WILL SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I LOVE THE PLATFORM THAT IT IS A HOLIDAY THAT MORE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT.

I ALSO KNOW THAT THERE IS THIS INTERNAL CONVERSATION AMONG BLACK COMMUNITIES WHICH IS WE HAVE BEEN CELEBRATING THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND NOW YOU HAVE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY MOVING IN AND IT IS LIKE THEY ARE DOING THEIR THING AND THEN YOU HAVE THE CORPORATIZATION COMMODIFICATION OF THIS THING AND I SOMETIMES I LOVE HISTORY.

I AM SOMEONE WHO AS YOU SAID WAS RAISED IN GEORGIA WHERE THE POPULATION IS 35 TO 40% AFRICAN AMERICAN.

MARTIN LUTHER KING IS FROM THERE SO I AM VERY AWARE OF THE HISTORY.

I ALSO WONDER LIKE IF THE HOLIDAY, IT'S GOOD THAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT BUT I ALSO WONDER IF PEOPLE FOLLOW-UP WITH THE HARD WORK OF REALLY TAKING ON THE HISTORY AND ROOT LAWS AND POLICY THAT SHOULD FOLLOW IN THAT.

>> Gene: FOLKS MIGHT NOT KNOW THIS, THERE ARE 57,000 AFRICAN AMERICANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO ACCORDING TO THE U.S. CENSUS.

THAT IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF A BLOCK-AND-A-HALF OF NEW YORK OR SOMEWHERE ELSE.

JUST TO MAKE THE POINT, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT SMALL OF A POPULATION, IT IS EASY TO JUST DISMISS AND IGNORE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE ON HOW DO WE GET INTO HOW THE PRESS WORKS HERE AND THE MEDIA WHEN IT COMES TO AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HEALTH DISPARITIES THAT ARE VERY NEWSWORTHY, CRIME DISPARITIES THAT ARE VERY NEWSWORTHY.

YOU DON'T READ A WHOLE LOT OF THAT.

THERE ARE POSITIVE STORIES THAT ARE VERY NEWS WORTHY IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

DON'T SEE A WHOLE LOT OF THAT.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HOW THE PRESS TAKES ON AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES HERE?

>> Dede: WELL, YOU KNOW, IT IS FIRST OF ALL DATES BACK TO HOW THE PUBLIC SEES AFRICAN AMERICAN ISSUES AND HOW IT IS ONLY RELATIVELY RECENTLY THAT WE RECOGNIZE NEW MEXICO AS A MULTICULTURAL STATE RATHER THAN A TRI-CULTURAL STATE.

SO, I THINK THAT IS KIND OF BACKDROP OF HOW THE MEDIA COVERS THIS COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IN NEWS COVERAGE IS WHO ARE THE BLACK LEADERS THAT ARE BEING COVERED?

WHO ARE THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION THAT ARE ACTUALLY BLACK RATHER THAN JUST WHITE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND THERE HAVEN'T BEEN THAT MANY OF THOSE, HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME IN THE PAST AND THEY HAVE BEEN LEGISLATORS AND THEY HAVE BEEN THERE DOING THE WORK, LENTON MALLORY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE 80'S INTRODUCING KINDERGARTEN FOR NEW MEXICANS.

AND NOW WE HAVE PAMELA HERNDON WHO IS DEFINITELY A LEADER IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND NOW IS RECOGNIZED AS A COMMUNITY LEADER IN TERMS OF GUN CONTROL AND GETTING THE ONLY PIECE OF GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION WHICH WAS NAMED AFTER A BLACK STUDENT WHO WAS KILLED AT WASHINGTON MIDDLE SCHOOL.

SO, YOU KNOW, THINGS CHANGE VERY SLOWLY BUT THERE HAVE BEEN CHANGES.

IT IS NOT A COMPLETE STAND STILL.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, ALL OF US, ALL OF US WATCHING AS WELL, WE CAN NAME MORE THAN A FEW BLACK REPORTERS AND BLACK MEDIA MEMBERS HERE NOT JUST ALBUQUERQUE, BUT SANTA FE, CRUCES.

IF YOU ADD THE WHOLE THING UP, IT IS STILL NOT A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS.

WHAT IS THE ISSUES HERE?

IS IT HIRING?

UNDERSTANDING BLACK ISSUES?

IS IT PURPOSEFUL?

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF IT?

IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME NOW AND PLENTY OF BLACK PEOPLE WANT THESE JOBS AND DON'T SEEM TO GET THEM.

>> Michael: I WOULD SAY IT HAS TAKEN TOO LONG.

AND I MEAN I PARALLEL SORT OF SOME OF MY OWN EXPERIENCE AS A NATIVE PERSON AND IN NEW MEXICO WE HAVE GREATER VISIBILITY BECAUSE OUR POPULATION IS LARGER.

AND WE HAVE -- WE HAVE HELD ON TO OUR TRIBAL LANDS AND TRIBES HAVING CASINOS AND THAT BENEFITED THEM.

BUT MY EXPERIENCE IN MANY OTHER PLACE, UTAH, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THE ETHNIC POPULATIONS ARE VERY SMALL, AFRICAN AMERICAN, HISPANIC, LATINO, NATIVE POPULATIONS.

I GUESS, THERE HAS TO BE -- THERE JUST HAS TO BE A COMMITMENT.

I MEAN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC RELATIONS EFFORTS AND WE CAN -- WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS BECAUSE OUR COMPANY CAN GENERATE REVENUE OFF OF THIS.

THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT.

THERE HAS TO BE A REAL COMMITMENT AND IT IS NOT GOING TO COME FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN POSITIONS THAT MAKE THOSE DECISIONING.

IT REALLY IS GOING TO COME FROM US HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE, EXPECTING ACCOUNTABILITY, ASKING FOR DATA, ASKING FOR -- I MEAN, BECAUSE IF IT WAS -- IF PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE BENEVOLENT AND SMART AND DO THE RIGHT THING, THEY WOULD HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT.

I MEAN, THERE IS CIVIL RIGHTS ACTS, ALL OF THESE -- I MEAN, IN NEW MEXICO IF IT WASN'T FOR MIGUEL TRUJILLO, I MEAN, INDIANS DIDN'T HAVE VOTING RIGHTS.

MARINE COMES BACK FROM SERVING NOT UNLIKE AFRICAN AMERICANS AND MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES OF COLOR WHO SERVED AND THEN THEY COME HOME AND THEY ARE DISRESPECTED, CAN'T VOTE, CAN'T BUY PROPERTY, THEY ARE IGNORED, MARGINALIZED.

THERE JUST HAS TO BE SORT OF A MORAL RECKONING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE IN POSITIONS WHO HAVE POWER AND PRIVILEGE TO RECOGNIZE THAT YOU CANNOT MARGINALIZE AND IGNORE ANYONE WHO IS IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND IT SHOULDN'T BE PREDICATED JUST ON WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION THEY ARE IN THE STATE.

IF YOU THINK THAT NEW MEXICO'S DOING -- IS CHALLENGED, TRAVEL TO UTAH AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE BROADCASTS AND LOOK WHO THE BROADCASTERS ARE ON ALL THE MAJOR TELEVISION STATIONS.

YOU SEE -- I MEAN, GOD BLESS YOU UTAH, YOU GOT SOME WORK TO DO.

BUT IT IS EVEN WORSE AND I DARE SAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION IS IN UTAH BUT I WOULD SUSPECT IT IS PROBABLY COMPARABLE TO NEW MEXICO AND YOU DON'T SEE ANY ETHNIC DIVERSITY IN TERMS OF BROADCASTS, PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA, BUT GETTING BACK TO THE POINT, PEOPLE HAVE TO JUST -- WE HAVE TO ASK AND EXPECT AND WE WILL BE REJECTED, YOU KNOW, I COME HIGHLY REJECTED IN SOME CIRCLES AND THAT IS FINE.

>> Gene: I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> Michael: WE CAN RELATE, WE HAVE BEEN THERE.

BUT IF WE ARE NOT HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND KNOCKING ON THOSE DOORS, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT HAS TO COME FROM OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR COMMUNITIES NEED TO BE ORGANIZED AND SAY -- AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO ALSO REACH OUT TO EACH OTHER AND ENGAGE EACH OTHER AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW IS THIS HAPPENING TO YOU?

WELL, MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT LET US COME TOGETHER AND BEGIN TO PURSUE THESE ISSUES MULTICULTURALLY, NOT JUST ONE COMMUNITY, IT IS ALL COMMUNITIES COMING TOGETHER TO SAY, WE HAVE EXPECTATIONS OF THIS COUNTRY, OF THIS CITY, OF GOVERNMENT, OF BROADCASTERS, AND WE EXPECT TO SEE SOME MEASURABLE CHANGE AND WE ARE GOING TO BE TAKING -- WE ARE GOING TO BE HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE AND LOOKING FOR NUMBERS.

WE WANT DATA.

WE WANT TO SEE A CHANGE.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Gene: THAT IS INTERESTING.

I AM PLEASED YOU DID THAT RANT THERE.

I MEAN THAT IN THE BEST SENSE OF RANT.

YOU HAD TO TIE A LOT OF THINGS TOGETHER.

IT IS NOT JUST AN ISOLATED DEAL.

IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL YOU GUYS.

TOUGH SUBJECTS TONIGHT BUT VERY NECESSARY.

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