(Music plays) >> Racing for a federal government shutdown, lawmakers studying for pensions, plus school consolidation and more from the television studios WFYI, it is Indiana Week In Review for the week ending September 29, 2023.

>> Indiana Week In Review is made possible by supporters of Indiana public broadcasting stations.

>> This week, Governor Eric said he is holding out hope the federal government will not shut down as a funding deadline looms, but as the state is still bracing for edge.

Holcomb says the state has been preparing for a shut down the government benefits can go about one month without disruption.

>> This is avoidable.

>> A larger issue is the economic impact of a shut down combined with the restart student loan payments combined with an auto worker strength that could soon reach Indiana.

He says these issues are why the state is trying to diversify the companies and industries tracks.

>> We think that will help us whether any cycle that might be closer.

Shep in the most immediate impact, 22,000 public employees in Indiana could lose their pay in the shutdown.

>> Is the economy at risk because of the potential government shutdown?

It is the first question for our Indiana Week In Review panel.

Democrat Angelini, Republican, Jennifer Hollowell.

John is host of Indiana lawmakers, Nikki Kelly, editor and chief of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

I am Indiana public broadcasting chief Braden Smith.

Delaney, I pointed out to the government and he added it is not just a shut down.

It is a shut down on top of student loan payments starting on top of the auto worker strike which is affecting more and more.

Should Hoosiers be worried?

>> I think they should.

I think the government shutdown by itself, some commentators are indicating could trigger a recession.

You have got this terrorist group in the Republican Party holding the entire country at basically gunpoint.

I don't know what they are thinking.

They were not elected to shut down the entire government operation.

They were elected to govern.

Instead of doing that, they are spending their time on the agenda, that they want to somehow find evidence somewhere even if they have to make it up for impeachment proceedings against President Biden.

In the meanwhile, they are letting the government shutdown.

You are going to have military people on page, you are going to have payments delayed around Social Security and all kinds of other things for this, just because they want to score political points.

They had an agreement that Kevin McCarthy brokered five months ago.

They can't even abide by it for a full year, much less... Is impossible.

He really is concerning because I think it could affect the economy, which is going great lately, could come to a dead halt.

>> How concerned should Hoosiers be about the economic fallout from all of the stuff that is going on?

>> I mean, it is compounding.

I am concerned about it.

I am still hopeful that we can get some or therapy short-lived.

I think there is some sense have gone through this so many times now over the last several decades, that I am not sure that people view it the same way as they do, but for all the folks, that is your direct impact, there is in a situation.

I hope we can get somewhere.

>> As we take this, Friday afternoon, we do not know whether the government will shut.

When you watch this, it may have been avoided, behold, more likely it seems like it has nothing of it.

John, we talked about whether it is debt ceiling impresses or shutdowns.

We talked about it on the show before and often talked about it being on everyone's house.

Do you see that the same way here this one, or is one-sided linking the case, but the other side is to blame a little better?

>> Well, if you look at recent history, and by that I mean what our collective memory, publicns have usually been the reason the government is shut down, and they have, much to their dismay and consternation received ultimately most of the blame.

If history is a guide, you have kind of given up on history as a guide assembly.

Let's assume that would be the case here.

One must assume if you pay any attention at all, you would see that it is the holdouts on the Republican side of the aisle.

Not in the Senate, mind you.

Mitch McConnell who runs the Republican caucus in the Senate is just as frustrated as we Joe Biden is with certain factions and firmaments who are in fact holding the U.S. House hostage it may be Venetian by virtue of that.

There probably will be repercussions.

Whether the repercussions for the people who hold out?

No.

They are in districts >> That is not necessarily.

And, you talked about they were not elected to shut down the government.

In some cases, looking at the campaigns, they were elected by the constituents.

>> They were still supposed to have majority rules.

>> Let's remember, what is the goal?

For some, you would think you would take office to serve the electorate.

You take the Constitution and try to advance our nation and improve it and its security and the welfare and well-being of its population.

I think for some people, that is not the measure.

We were in this pitch battle where you talk about tipping this economy into a recession.

For some, that might be just what the doctor ordered that they can blame it on Joe Biden.

We told you all along this by gnomic stuff is no good.

I think we have lost that.

Some elected officials have lost fact of the notion that they are there to serve the public and our nation.

All they are doing is creating chaos trying to dismantle and render capes.

>> It looks increasingly like it order to get a deal to avert this or after it happens, to end it, Democrats are going to have to come on board in the house because it seems like there are enough Republicans who are unwilling, barring some extreme measures will ever agree to.

That would help Kevin McCarthy over the shutdown or at it, but it also puts Kevin McCarthy in the crosshairs to lose the speakership.

If you know Kevin McCarthy, are you in an impossible situation?

>> Partly, August the because of the small margin has, every day there is a new thread about bringing the motion to vacate the speakership.

At some point, they need to vote and be done with that so they can move past the threat and the speakership stuff, and focus on how to keep this going.

I do think we need to remind them more, we talk about TSA workers and military.

They are not going to get paid, but these lawmakers are.

Anyone who says they are going to refuse their pay by law, they can, so don't buy that.

I just think the next step is to get this speakership stuff out of the way.

>> If you are a Democrat in the house of representatives and the speakership does come up for a vote, do you support Kevin McCarthy and keep him at the speakership?

You would probably have to.

>> You probably didn't, because they don't know how much worse it could get.

-- you probably do.

I don't think he is there.

He could bring that down and get the Democratic votes to pass it and he won't do it.

>> There is still a date left or so.

>> He has been since what was it, 15 County balance.

As soon as the ink was dry on his vote, that ultimately delivered to him, the speakership, I think he was an untenable ultimately impossible situation.

>> Time from your feedback.

Each would be an unscientific online poll question.

This week's question.

Who to blame if there is a government shutdown?

Democrats, Republicans, or both parties?

Last week we asked you whether Tom Vicino should be disciplined by the Indiana Supreme Court.

93% said yes, 7% said no.

If you like to take part, go to WFYI.org and look for the pole.

Legislative study committee took steps in examining a guarantee that your be cost-of-living increase public retirees.

The lawmakers are still caging on anything, what they will do for 100,000 Hoosiers receiving public pension benefits.

>> It almost every budget going back three decades, the state provided either a cost-of-living adjustment or COLA to monthly living benefits or given retirees a 13 check, and extra months worth of benefits.

It did not do that this year, opting instead to study a permanent COLA of half a percent each year.

The Indiana Public retirement system told legislators that would cost the state $60 million year.

Study committee Jeff Thompson acknowledges that is small compared to the budget with this there is more than $44 billion.

>> Do you want to commit to that long term?

I want to thank and talk to some folks.

We will see.

>> Whatever lawmakers decide to do, the committee chair says it seems unlikely help would come in 2024.

>> From my understanding, traditionally we have not done adjustments in a non-budget year.

>> Both of them say they are not taking off the table at this point.

>> Jennifer with a $60 million price tag, why is this not a no-brainer?

>> Well, I think it did pass through the house.

It did not get to the Senate.

I think the focus is coming up with the long-term plan, which the long-term, the COLA increase be better for retirees than the 13th check.

In two years and four years, they will end up being better financially with that.

It is a function of let's get back in place.

I have heard there are some house members who may try to do something in a short session.

The project management oversight committee discusses this at their meeting in terms of the long term.

I think we quickly, but it is part of the process.

>> Why is this not a no-brainer by the end of March next year will this have been a no-brainer?

>> I hope so.

It is long overdue.

How long did the federal government indent Social Security the cost-of- living increases?

These people are getting paid.

If they retired 20 years ago, they are getting nothing comparatively speaking.

It is well past time when they did not even get the 13th check as minimal as it was last time.

It is time to index that and to do it.

I don't care whether it is a budget session.

It has to be done.

>> To that end, budget writers hate reopening a budget in an alleged year.

The way to historically pay for the 13th check is money from the Hoosier lottery.

The lottery is doing just fine.

Even if the performance addict, they would still be doing more than enough to give us an extra $60 a year.

You can make an argument you don't have to reopen the budget in order to pay for it.

>> They could pass a law indexing input ineffective if he wanted to do it that way.

That is an example.

I think it is obvious that there needs to be some additional money given to retirees.

I have found over the years of 20+ years from covering this, a little background is time, the entireties wanted 1/13 check and then they would say "The COLA because it is better in the long term."

The first time they give them COLA a bunch of retirees complained the 13th check is what they want.

It depends where you are at in the retiree system, how each thing impacts you.

I do feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

COLA versus 13th check, but the index takes care of that.

>> Talked about this at the end of session when they did not put it in the budget.

The first time in two or three decades.

It was pretty shocking, because this is a slamdunk for a lot of reasons, not least of which is older Hoosiers are among the most reliable voting block of any.

That is across the country.

Older Americans vote more and - pay attention to issues that perhaps younger demographics don't.

I get Jeff Thompson is not wanting to prejudice what is happening.

Are you surprised none of them are saying "We are going to do something, figure out exactly it's.

It's called >> It is not a court proceeding take the journey.

This is a political agenda that utilities out front whether anybody wants to listen to your opinion or not, you're going to operate.

Matthew are going to offer it.

I understand budget writers.

We can stomach that believed you are right.

Everyone has said, when giving with the constituency as such as it is, people who have served the state, are, they lived up to their end of the bargain and the assumption because of historical precedent has been they would get something.

>> For most of them a lot of money.

Some workers have historically been underpaid.

>> I talk about the Ebenezer Scrooge image that you can attach to some members of the general assembly where it does seem that the frail, did that, the elderly, they are going to be gone soon anyway.

The children.

I am not saying that is the way a lot of people wake up and decide they are going to go to the budget committee meeting at craft a budget, but it gives the public impression.

There are other sweet spots where the money flows.

If you're giving educational vouchers my Amtrak to figure, they wanted to go back to school for continuing education.

>> The COLA is needed for economic develop reasons.- >> So they can help with tuition to a private school.

>> I cannot guarantee anything will happen with this in the 2024 session.

What I can guarantee it will not be more than 1/2 a percent increase because the cost is $16 million.

If you go up to a 1% COLA, it becomes $1.8 million.

$60 million to $1.8 million.

>> Indiana Republican editorial candidates Eric is pushing back against the Indiana Chamber of Commerce recommendation for small rural schools to consolidate.

>> The chamber recommendations part of his new 2035 economic vision plan.

It says more than half of Indiana's school corporations have fewer than 2,000 students, which the chamber calls a key threshold for schools to be able to effectively operate and provide necessary courses to students.

Before the business, they call it a death for those who live in small towns and rural communities.

He makes multi-revitalization attempt of his campaign for governor in while he does not impose school districts consolidating, he says doing so without consolidating schools themselves, which he opposes, is unlikely.

>> The idea of consolidation is not a new one.

Monica's trying to incentivize districts to consolidate a few years ago and basically got almost no one to bite.

Is it ever going to happen?

>> It is a tough slog, because people care about their local schools, and in a way that might be detached from the political process and not pay any attention to buckles under the Dome in Indianapolis, unless it is something that your school you attended, and her grandfather attended in your kids are going to attend, is going to go away.

We cannot have that.

You have depth back.

>> Even school nicknames.

>> Certain things.

It is an attachment.

Let's look at the current Shepherd or Shepherd.

I don't remember.

Back in 2007 was the result of a task force that the government Mitch Daniels had assembled.

They looked out smart people on the group and came up with twentysomething recommendations.

One of them was the Township government.

Other things that people hang onto with clenched fists.

You look at the data.

I went and looked at it.

54%, and I don't let this has changed, probably has, the argument still holds.

54% of all property tax revenue that was collected at the time of the analysis that was done for that report in 2007 was going to schools with districts under 2,000.

I know you're talking district, but in other words the smart schools who may not be able to offer an educational array of services as much as a larger district because they don't have the resources, sucking resources out of the collective tip.

There is an educational reason to deal with them, there is a physical reason, but all that disappears when you have people saying to keep my school.

>> I asked John, does ever need to happen?

>> I get it.

I went to a small high school.

Which should have been consolidated in Ohio.

Some counties have done this well.When over this a few years ago and have done well.

We damage beyond the basketball team in the mascot name into history and say look, if there is 800 people in this school district, the students, we cannot give them foreign language.

We cannot give them advanced calculus or items they need to fill the jobs that we are missing in this state.

We have somehow got to get past the sentiment to see if the students are being served in these small areas.

>> We just went this whole debate this past session about rethinking high school.

With the idea being we need to better align high school curriculum to what students need when they get high school.

Whether that is going to a four-year university to get a degree, or going right into the workforce and getting a certificate so they can get the jobs that are in their communities.

In light of the conversation particularly, does this school consolidation conversation need to be ramped up?

>> Absolutely.

I have said for years, Indiana is over government.

The idea that we have 1,000 townships and - innumerable school districts and all is crazy for estate size.

It adds a layer of laxity, it adds cost it takes away the opportunity for the students to be competitive.

That is what we have to be looking at.

It does not matter what their mascot is or how well the team did, if they cannot get a job but they graduate or cannot get into the higher education opportunity that they want because they have not taken the courses that are required.

It is senseless.

People like Eric Tilden and the bottles they are fighting battles that have already been lost, because of the migration from rural communities to metropolitan areas.

He needs to accept that.

I think it is great to get broadband and do whatever you can do to it by license communities, but not at the expense of the next generation.

>> To that point, dispense.

This is not just Eric grabbing for an issue.

He wants the attention and that is fine, but this fits very much in the policy proposals he has been doing for a while, which is this whole idea that has been revitalizing this small rural commitments.

Does opposing school consolidation help revitalize a small rural communities?

>> Full disclosure, I am on the chambers, but I think when looking at this issue, there are a lot of challenges facing rural communities, which a lot of people are talking about and is serious matter for the next government legislature to look at.

I don't think it can be a one-size-fits-all approach.

Certainly, it is very unpopular for the state to force things like this.

I went to a school that was consolidated long before I was there, and I can still tell you stories of my parents and all of these folks talked about about which color and which part of the mascot etc..

These things are something you have to deal with.

A lot of places, that is part of their identity.

That school is a huge part of the identity.

What is most important, is Eric is looking into the school you are asked.

Do they have the resources and are given the kind of education they need, it can be creative?

Can we come up with some other ways?

Maybe incentivize it.

Are there other creative ways to get figure out how to get them the right programs to be successful?

>> The Indiana Supreme Court says state law bans corporate contributions to independent political action committees or super PACs, even as the state acknowledges such a ban would be unconstitutional.

The state court was answering a question posed by a federal appeals court as part of an ongoing lawsuit.

>> Super PACs are groups that spend money on races without coordinating with candidates or political parties.

In 2010, the US Supreme Court ruled the Bancorp contributions to super PACs is unconstitutional.

That is exactly what Indiana right to life super PACs says Indiana law does.

It wanted to accept a $10,000 contribution from a local media company, so it sued in federal art.

The second Court of Appeal sent to make the ruling in one of the Indiana Supreme Court to first weigh in on whether state law over the span of limited contributions to super backs.

The state High Court said it does.

It says that the law specifically lays out which groups corporation can give to and that what limits, and because super PACs are not mentioned in the law, the courses corporations cannot give anything to you.

The court's opinion acknowledges both sides expect the federal court to stop the state from enforcing the ban, even as the state said all along, it never would.

>> Nikki County with the expectation of the federal courts will take care of this, do you expect much to change in Indian elections and spending?

>> No.

This law has not been enforced for years.

That was really no, obviously someone put in the future, but the federal courts are going to write me say under previous rulings that this is unconstitutional, and I don't think we will see anything different other than a piece of paper that says it is unconstitutional.

Lawmakers might physically repeat it if they would like that is it.

>> With the citizens United decision there was a definite change of federal elections in this country.

You see the same impact that everyone is acknowledging we can do this in Indiana, even though there has never been a reason?

>> Interesting discussion.

There are a lot of things at play here.

People trying to raise money.

>> And get legal fees like Jim Bob.

>> I don't think much will change.

There are courts that would still see precedent like citizens United estimate that something to be enforced.

>> Finally, the USAID network today of his papers is hiring reporters with very specific beats.

The two positions will cover Taylor Swift and Beyonce, respectively.

Nikki County, I am putting this to you as the journalist on the panel, how should we feel about the state of journalism.

>> Book, I get we have to give a mix of things people want versus what they need, and you know, I know they see those stories are being clicked on is obviously a huge issue, but it is hard to see the number of reporters I have seen him lose their jobs or take early retirement who did really good accountability journalism.

I think there is a place for this full-time position, probably not stop I think they can hire some freelancers for a couple months.

>> There is an argument these positions will be revenue drivers, but does not look great in light of all the other stuff that particularly network like that has done.

You should read the Indian capital Chronice.

>> Will not be cover Taylor Swift.

>> That is Indiana Week In Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrats, and Delaney, Republican, Jennifer Hollowell, John of Indiana lawmakers, Kelly Nikki of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

You can find it@wfyi.org/IW IR or on the PBS app.

I am Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Join us next time.

A lot can happen in an Indiana week.

(Music plays) >> The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week In Review is a WFYI production in association with Indiana Untested