(upbeat music) - On today's show, we're going to discuss beauty standards for women.

Who determines these standards?

And what impact are they having on the women in America?

Coming up next on Inspire.

(upbeat music) (soft chiming music) - [Announcer] Inspire is sponsored by Kansas Furniture Mart.

Using furniture to inspire conversation.

And by the Blanche Bryden Foundation.

(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to Inspire.

I wanna be the first to tell you you're beautiful, as are my wonderful co-hosts.

We have Amber Dickinson and Danielle Norwood, and who sets these beauty standards anyway?

- Beauty is sometimes defined as a combination of qualities, such as shape, color, or form that's pleasing to the eye.

Standard can be defined as a measure of quality or value.

So who determines the beauty standards for women here in America?

And what did those standards mean for American women of all ages?

- Joining us today are Dr. Jericho Hockett, a Professor of Psychology here at Washburn University and Dr. Sharon Sullivan, Professor and Chair of the Department of Theater at Washburn, but also teaches Women's and Gender Studies.

Thank you so much for joining us today on Inspire.

We have a lot of stuff we wanna talk about.

(all laughing) So let's just start off by sort of addressing this idea of what are beauty standards, where did they come from?

- You know, beauty standards, they're nothing new, right?

This topic is one that has been talked about and talked about and talked about.

And when I knew it was gonna be the topic for today's show, I thought, well, of course, we're still talking about it, 'cause it's not going away either.

You gave great definition of beauty standards to start but I think that they're sourced in a lot of different places from expectations that we hold for ourselves, for others, but largely driven by things like media and consumerism too.

- If we might, let's start with something that we've all been told, because we're just like you guys.

I mean, we've all been told things in our lives.

Danielle, how about starting with you?

- Well, thank you for starting with me.

I've been told that I have wide hips for breeding.

- And doctor.

- Sure, I grew up hearing that I was too skinny.

- I was told I was built to survive the Ice Age.

- And what does that mean?

- It means I'm fat.

(all laughing) - Me too, Susan, thank you.

- I'll be the last one to starve.

(Danielle laughs) - Oh my gosh.

- Wow.

- I'm told to smile more frequently.

I'm told that when I present myself confidently that I am being too confident or if I'm not confident enough, then I should be ashamed for not being confident enough.

And these things really are strongly correlated with your appearance.

It's just that people don't wanna come right out and say it but these are all very veiled ways of telling you that you are less than, or if you feel good about yourself, then you are too much.

- Okay, now mine actually came... My dad told me about this.

He said, as a baby, a man had approached him and said, "Oh, you know, I've heard the ugliest babies often turn out to be a nice a looking woman."

And he said, he didn't know whether to punch him or shake his hand.

- Oh my goodness.

So bad, I know.

- Oh my goodness.

I'd wanna punch the dude but anyhow, have beauty standards changed 'cause I know back in the day, if you were plump, it meant that you actually had money and were able to eat.

But now it's almost like you had to be stick thin in order to be seen as beautiful.

So starting with you and I'd like answers from both of you.

How have they changed if any way?

- Oh, sure.

Pull up in your Instagram and then you'll see right away how sharply it has changed.

The images that you see on Instagram, you've got people who are influencers and beauty experts and health experts, right?

Self-proclaimed and their images that they posted themselves are so heavily photoshopped that nobody could possibly believe that is real.

Despite their claims to the contrary where there's not enough room in their body to hold their internal organs.

So thin, so disproportionate to what an unedited human body would actually look like.

- Yes, Dr. Sullivan.

- I think you're absolutely right.

That being plump was a sign for generations of wealth because you had enough to eat or you had time for leisure as well.

And of course it was around the late 1700s, we started to see that changing where a slimmer looks, came into fashion with the Gibson girls.

And then we start seeing that over time historically, where women are slim down and then they get our glass figure and then they slim down again and all the way up until the 80s where we have the waif and that's that very slender.

- Twiggy.

- Twiggy in the 60s, the waif look in the 1980s and then it became a little more athletic.

Now we're seeing a little bit more emphasis on the backside.

But the fact is that most of us can never attain that image.

It's a model that's not realistic for most of us simply because our genetics don't allow it.

I'm not saying some of us couldn't lose a few pounds because obesity is a problem in our country, but many of us are never gonna attain that wave look, no matter how much, we can't exercise or diet our way into that.

And so we spend a lot of time and energy trying to look a certain way and it takes away from the things that I think we're meant to do on this earth as human beings.

- Sure, so this is a great thing you've brought up, which is this idea that the expectations are exhausting.

And in many cases they're physically exhausting because you are putting restrictions on your eating.

So you may have encountered disordered eating or you're pushing yourself too hard in the gym.

But in addition to those physical exhaustions that we experience, what are the psychological impacts of these expectations?

- Sure, so one of the hypotheses that's been tested and a lot of support found for it in psychology is this hypothesis called what is beautiful as good.

And it's an association that has emerged between people's perceptions of one as beautiful and a whole host of other positive attributes assigned to that person.

So people who are perceived as being more beautiful are also perceived as being more intelligent, more capable, et cetera, just the list goes on, better personality characteristics, et cetera.

So I think for people even who do meet those really narrowly defined beauty standards, there's a lot of psychological emotional work that goes into maintaining that appearance, maintaining the standards so that they don't lose on all of these other wonderful social benefits that are associated with that through no fault or effort of their own.

- Well, we've got so much, so much more about this.

We're gonna take a short break though.

We'll be back with more beauty standards for American women, might get some men in there too.

(upbeat music) - Thanks ladies, I'm Sarah Starr and I'm excited to bring you a bit of inspiration to add to your daily activity routine.

In today's session, we'll be focusing on improving balance, helping to create more stability and awareness in your everyday living.

Join me as we create more calm and focused with this quick accessible yoga practice, exploring our center of gravity and strengthening our bodies while using a chair for support, relax, and remember your happy yoga smile, namaste.

(upbeat music) Begin by standing with your left hip closest to the chair with your left hand to the chair for support.

Adding a lateral stretch, reach the right arm up and over to the left.

Breathing wide into the right side body, continue rooting down evenly through the feet, lifting up and out of both sides of the waist.

(upbeat music) Release and repeat to the opposite side.

With the right hand to the chair force support, reach the left arm up and over to the right breathing wide in to the left side body.

(upbeat music) Release and return to center using the right hand to the chair for support.

Standing with your right hip closest to the chair, shift the weight into the right foot using the left hand to draw the left knee in , slowly draw the left knee open to the left, lower the left hip slightly so it's in line with the right standing tall with the core engaged.

(upbeat music) Draw the left knee back to center and release, repeating to the opposite side.

With the left hand to the chair force support, shift the weight into the left foot.

Use the right hand to lift the right knee up, standing tall with the core engaged, gently guide the right knee open, roll the outer right hip down as you firm the outer left hip in gently pressing the top of the left thigh back.

(upbeat music) Draw the right knee back to center and release, transitioning into modified Tree Pose, standing with your right hip closest to the chair, using the right hand to the chair for support, shift the weight into the right foot.

Place the left heel to the right ankle calf muscle below the knee, or use the left hand to place the left foot to the top of the right thigh.

(upbeat music) Reach the left arm to the sky, lengthening the tailbone towards the earth, keeping the pelvis in a neutral position, lightly firming the lower ribs in.

(upbeat music) Adding a lateral stretch, reach the left arm up and over to the right, lengthening through the left side body.

(upbeat music) Slowly return to upright and release, repeating modified Tree Pose to the opposite side.

Using the left hand to the chair force support, shift the weight into the left foot.

Place the right heel to the left ankle, calf muscle below the knee, or use the right hand to place the right foot to the top of the left thigh.

Continue lengthening the tailbone towards the earth, lightly lifting through the lower belly.

And when you're ready reach the right arm to the sky, firmly press the sole of the right foot to the inner left thigh, resisting with the outer left leg, pointing the right knee open to the right, opening across the hips.

Adding a lateral stretch, reach the right arm up and over to the left, breathing wide into the right side body.

(upbeat music) Stay connected to your smooth even breath as you release.

(upbeat music) Coming to take a seat, completing our yoga practice for today.

Namaste.

(upbeat music) Thank you for joining me.

Hopefully I've inspired more activity and mindfulness in your day.

See you next time.

(upbeat music) - We're back with our guests, Dr. Jericho Hockett and Dr. Sharon Sullivan from Washburn university.

Ladies, in our first segment, we discussed how beauty standards for women are established by and by whom and whether or not those standards are realistic or attainable for most women.

Let's talk a little bit about the impact they can have on women.

- Yeah, sure.

I think that they have an impact on both men and women.

The images that we see all the time becomes so normalized that that becomes our expectation, whether you meet those standards or not.

And most of us don't, then it has a long term impact on our sense of self, our self-esteem.

I am still horrified at the size of my feet because my family teased me for decades that I had big feet.

When in reality, my feet are a normal size for my body, but I'm still self-conscious because I was teased about it.

And so I think that we see that those impacts, I've often thought to myself, if I knew now, what I knew as a teenager, what I know now, I would be retiring early, 'cause I wouldn't have spent all that money on nail polish and makeup.

I would've been putting that in a savings account.

So I think that there's both tangible and intangible consequences for women.

And we know for example that when the images are very, very thin, there seems to be an increase in eating disorders.

So that's part of it.

We also see the changing values and what's beautiful can have an impact.

10 years ago, I was attractive because I met the beauty standards.

Now I'm not because the beauty standards have changed.

It's also become a lot more difficult I think for women and girls to dress in a way that they want to, because the fashion that's available to us is very limited.

So if for example, I went shopping for a dress for a conservative wedding, I could not find anything that had sleeves.

You know, that didn't make me look like I was 80 years old, no offense to 80 year olds.

It's like very limited as to what our choices are.

And so we start to think, well, if this doesn't look good on me, then there must be something wrong with me because it's what everybody else is wearing.

- And we're just coming off prom season.

So, so many younger girls what to have the slit up the thigh or something that they think is in fashion.

I will give a shout out to some of the fashion houses that are incorporating a larger girl, but that's got to make you feel like, oh my gosh, I don't even wanna go because I can't find anything that looks good on me.

You know, that type.

Would you address that Dr. Hockett?

- Sure, yeah.

I've got nieces who are in high school and they're just coming off of prom, as you said.

And one of my nieces, gorgeous girl.

According to the beauty standards, she just checks about every single box that there is.

And even with that being the case, she was so concerned with projecting the right appearance.

She posts her pictures to Instagram, which is great, 'cause that's one way that we get to engage and interact.

But I think of research that shows that even when young girls in particular are aware that those Instagram images are heavily edited, those images still affect what they think they should be projecting and their sense of self as you said, Sharon.

- I think a lot of it is cultural, maybe based upon race, because as an African American, I don't really care about folks as beauty standards as much.

I will dance to my own drummer.

And I know a lot of women specifically who feel the same way.

Talk about that, about the freedom.

Like one of the people I love is Lizzo.

Now I would never go to a Lakers game with a thong on and nothing else, however, I love the way that she just boldly displays who she is.

And it's like, you know what, screw your beauty standards 'cause I'm beautiful and I'm going to let you know that the standards need to change.

So talk about that.

- Yeah, I love Lizzo too.

And I think that we do have a few more diverse representations in pop culture and I think that's really important.

We need more of those, more diversity, but then Lizzo is still selling herself.

Like she just came out with this foundation product line.

And so as someone who's a bigger girl and maybe not feeling good about myself, oh well, if I buy the foundation that Lizzo created, then I'll look like this and guess what?

I don't look like that.

And so we keep spending trying to look like that.

And I think your point about culture and communities is really important 'cause different cultures, different communities have different values, different ideas about beauty.

I was just at a party this weekend with a wedding and the family was a different culture from mine and the women were dressed very sexually, nothing wrong with that, but that's not the way that my family would've gone to a wedding.

That would've been much more conservative.

And I have no judgment about that, it's just an observation.

Like this is the norm for some cultures, African American women in their hair and their nails can be super important.

Well, hair's important to most women.

- Important absolutely.

And nails too, 'cause again, it's all a representation of who we are.

And now it's like crossed over to where everybody's doing the designer nails and everybody's adding extensions.

So it's not just us anymore.

It's everybody trying to take on the look and it's like, well dang, we started at first, but now everybody's trying to get into it and now it's become a trend.

But back in the day, we would've been seen as the outcast because we look so different.

So I just think it's interesting how all of this has evolved.

- And I think that we see a lot of cooptation from different cultures.

So as you talk about like the hair and the nails, but I think we can even go back to, I don't know, maybe it's a decade now with Kim Kardashian broke the internet with that magazine picture where she-- - With the booty.

- With the booty.

which is actually mimics the image of, I'm sorry I can't remember her real name, Venus Hottentot.

she was an African woman with a large booty who was kidnapped from Africa and toured around Europe because of the size of her backside.

And as she was displayed as an oddity and when you start looking at those historical images and Kim Kardashian's image, they're a match.

she's co-opting African culture.

- Women actually have gone to the measures of getting the implants and some people can't afford the implants.

And so they're using caulking to be inserted inside of their bodies.

And unfortunately caulking starts to crack and gets into the bloodstream.

I mean, there's been plenty of cases about that, that people in other countries are doing that as a quick fix.

And then all of the health issues that come as a result of people wanting that backside.

- So there's clearly an exploitation of women going on when we are playing upon the psychological concerns that women have about how they should look.

I mean, that's exploiting that fear.

So in terms of the beauty industry, is the beauty industry exploiting women's concerns about beauty for their benefit, - For the benefit of.. - Of their profit.

- Yeah, their profit.

- All comes down to money.

- I mean, is that accurate or is that a too cynical viewpoint?

- I'm gonna say accurate because I mean, that's the job of businesses and corporations is to make money.

That's not my job, my job is to push back and say, this isn't acceptable as a consumer.

So yeah, they're trying to sell us whatever.

And whatever their product is, whether that's clothing or shoes, accessories, makeup, hair, nails, plastic surgery.

And I think that we cannot underestimate the impact that pornography has had on our beauty standards and our culture of beauty.

I was talking last year with a woman whose good friend is a gynecologist.

And she said she hasn't seen had any women in her office in a year who had pubic hair.

Because everybody shaved.

Now, where does that come from?

That comes from pornography.

Do most women realize that's why they're doing it?

Probably not, not young women, those of us who are older and have been through, seeing a few decades go by, we can make those connections, but most people are not making those connections.

- You guys, this is so fascinating.

We're gonna have to have a part two on this.

I'm sure, you're probably thinking, 'cause we've got so many questions, but thank you both for being here very much.

We've got the doctors in the house today.

Hang right there.

(upbeat music) - Ladies, we learned a lot today from Jericho and Sharon about beauty standards and how they impact women in America.

So what did you take away from today's discussion?

'Cause I got a lot.

- Oh yeah.

I just know that we need to talk a whole lot more about it and I know you have a lot.

- Yeah, I think in particular this is something that we have to try to unlearn because we've been taught in all kinds of ways, obvious and covert ways that to be self-conscious about who we are and our physicality.

And I think so much of a woman's value in this world is placed on her appearance.

And I think that that's something that I don't know that it's ever gonna change to be honest with you, really.

Because as long as we're still viewing women as something that should be pleasing to the eye, We're not gonna let them be their full selves.

- I love what you're doing with your child though.

Talk about that.

- With Ollie?

- Yes.

- What did I say?

I don't remember.

- You said that you were giving your child books in order to learn how to accept people that don't look like him and just to diversify.

- Yeah.

I mean, you know, it goes beyond just what we think of as beautiful.

It's about seeing faces that aren't white faces because our family is white and we wanna read books that characters are in a wheelchair or because we need to figure out ways to teach people at a young age that this one idea of how a person should look or furthermore, this one idea of who we accept as credible members of society is no longer acceptable.

And it starts with them.

Honestly, it's probably too late for us to unlearn all the things that we've learned, but it's not for them.

And our focus should be on that.

- But we can attempt to do it.

I think it's imperative on each of us that we attempt to do that because it is learned behavior.

It's not just, you come out feeling that way.

It's learned, you read it, you see it, you hear other people talk about it.

So you think that's how it is, but no, you make up your own mind.

- Sure, and we have to do better.

Even if our ways are sort of set, we can always learn more.

But I think for children, I don't ever want them to have to go back and do the work that we need to be doing now on ourselves.

They should just grow up in a different way than we did.

- Well, and it's sad that I've been doing the work since my mid 40s and now going into 50s.

Again, we're told that beauty is a certain thing.

And I refuse to believe that there are so many beautiful people who look like me may not look like me.

Maybe plus size, maybe stick skinny.

It comes in all shapes and packages.

And at the end of the day, we have to learn to love ourselves.

- And not judge a book by the cover.

- And not judge a book, but if the cover's different, I like looking at different covers, I'm serious.

I mean, that's what makes us who we are.

That's what makes diversity so beautiful.

The difference between diversity and inclusion, we should include all those people.

Everybody has a role at the table.

And so I love having people who don't look like me in my friend group, I love learning from them, I love teaching them.

And I think at the end of the day, that's what we do for each other.

We're not talking about people being different and it's a bad thing, but we're celebrating those differences and learning from each other.

That to me is what makes all of this worthwhile.

- Everybody's valuable, everybody's beautiful.

- Absolutely.

- Absolutely.

That's all the time we have for today.

If you'd like to watch this program again, you can do that online at watch.ktwu.org.

- And if you are so inspired to learn more about our guests, find out what's coming up in the future and to get access to additional content, be sure to visit our website at www.ktwu.org/inspire.

- Inspiring women, inspiring beauty in all women, inspiring you, right here on KTWU.

We thank you for watching.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] Inspire is sponsored by Kansas furniture Mart.

Using furniture to inspire conversation.

And by the Blanche Bryden Foundation.