Losing a child is unimaginable.

Yet so many women carry this silent heartbreak.

Today on inspire, we open the door to one of life's most difficult conversations.

Grief, loss and finding a way forward.

That's next on inspire.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation, and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.

Hello and welcome to Inspire.

We have a thoughtful show that I'm sure will have an impact on everyone, and I am glad to share this special time with my Inspire sister, Betty Lou Pardue.

And today's show features a conversation that may be difficult, but it's also deeply important as we learn about love, loss, and the courage to keep going.

We also share a touching story of how one Topeka woman's grief turned into a foundation that helps others navigate loss and provide support while going through the same painful experience she had.

I'm honored to introduce Anna Clark, founder of the DK Impact and grief counselor Felicia Glass.

We're thankful for both of you to be here.

Thank you.

And we know it's a tough subject.

And and I do want to say we're sorry for your loss.

I did.

I saw pictures of DK.

What a bright, fun, cute, curly haired boy with the biggest smile that I'm sure any room he entered.

He was just the light that shone.

But at age two, please tell us what happened.

So at age two and a half, he was diagnosed with leukemia.

And then what?

For those who don't know, it's a blood disease.

But what are the complications?

Especially for a child who has leukemia?

So what led to it was, me finding a bruise on him, and just going taking him to the doctor, asking them to look further into it.

Okay, then then he was hospitalized.

Would you tell about the procedure and then, you know, on in to when he was four?

Okay.

Yes.

He was, hospitalized right away.

Life changed for us right away.

Had to make the decision to get him treatment.

And that just started, and that looked like chemo for about 20 days straight on that first initial, diagnosis.

We lived in the hospital, of course, during that time.

Yeah.

Can you tell us a little bit about DK?

Just.

But just tell us.

Introduce us to him.

DK he was he was such a joyful little boy.

Very joyful and, full of life.

He made he had a presence that just put on a huge impact.

If you met him, it certainly has stuck.

So anyone who had met him, I'm sure they can still feel his presence today.

How old was he when you lost him?

He was four years old when he struggled with this battle of the leukemia for about 18 months.

Or something like that.

Yeah, on and off.

He was in remission.

Okay.

For a year, and it came back at four years old.

Can you tell us how his diagnosis impacted your family?

It was very, overwhelming.

And we had to learn to adjust.

Our world stopped, but the world around us kept going.

And we had to learn to keep going as a family.

Felicia, as a grief counselor.

I'm thinking perhaps when you lose a child, you could new to this to honor.

Did you feel alone?

You.

Do you feel alone?

Even if you have a huge support system like I had, it doesn't take away the feeling of feeling alone.

And that's why organizations like I have created, is important.

I feel like in our community, and we want to get into that DK impact.

But Felicia, knowing that somebody does feel alone in this.

How can you, as a grief counselor, help that person?

So one, I think it's important to identify that, you know, when we talk about mental illness, it definitely is this long term process of when we start talking about a diagnosis of mental illness, we're talking about something that has impacted our life to the degree that our life we cannot regain normalcy, right?

And so with physical death, I'm a baby, right.

So we're talking about, at this point in your life, with DK, you had shared your heartbeat with three people in this world.

You had two children and your mama, right?

And so the reality is, is that there are no other people in the world that will understand how you are feeling.

So, yes, your individual experience means that you will process this differently than others.

And yes, in that moment you're looking for people that can relate and understand.

Even if you're sitting with another mom who has lost their baby, her experience is not yours.

So you're entitled to be along in that journey, but it doesn't mean that you're mentally ill.

It means you're experiencing the loss of someone, right?

When we talk about mental illness and in terms of the grief part, we get outside of that 12 month period and we start seeing that life is not looking anything normal.

Right.

So I can't go to work.

I'm not eating well.

I'm sick in my body.

I still have this overwhelming longing for my loved one.

Then we're talking about prolonged grief.

So grief is in and of itself is not diagnosable.

That is a life experience.

And we treat grief, that life experience, we treat the symptoms, not the loss.

Right.

So our responsibility as care providers are treating the whole person right.

So I'm not talking about just this one situation.

I'm talking about how did it impact your life?

What are the ways in which it changed you?

Right?

How are you getting up in the morning?

How are you engaging with others?

How are you restarting life?

Because her journey when she was, living with decay is very different than living without him physically present.

Now she's carrying him with her.

With her.

Not necessarily along with her life sense.

Right?

It does.

It's different.

But you turned years into such a positive and you're keeping him alive.

I love the decay.

Impact?

What is that?

The decay impact is a childhood, pediatric organization where we support families who are dealing with pediatric cancer at the time.

And whatever way that looks like for them, emotional.

Financially.

And what is the reach?

Is it just locally?

Is it just for people in Shawnee County or what is the reach of the impact?

We starting off locally, we would like to expand it and see where it goes one day.

How long has it been in existence?

So it we first launched in January, 2024.

Okay.

So it's new.

Yeah.

It is.

Okay.

What types of things people can find.

You will put up the website, but how does somebody know that they need to or how do you welcome them in to DK impact a lot of people.

Just like hearsay.

They are sent to us.

They'll send us an email or a message, or maybe a loved one will recommend, maybe this these, organization will be able to help you out.

And that's how we, meet a lot of our families.

Do you have relationships with the hospitals for where, when families are actually experiencing, this tragedy, this unimaginable tragedy, they can say here, here's some resources for you, and hopefully DK impact is one of them.

Yes, I do.

I have relationships with, a pediatric oncologist.

The hospital where my son got his treatment at, some nurses.

And I'm also a registered nurse at our hospital.

So I'm pretty, connected in that area during a time of a loss.

There are so many emotions.

Will you expand on that a little bit more?

Phelicia?

Well, people are can experience a full range of emotions when it comes to loss, right?

So there's of course the sorrow, there's sadness, there's grief, there's loneliness.

Right.

And sometimes there's joy mixed in.

So I think that we have to remember that that's the extent of emotions are individual based on what was our relationship with this individual.

Right.

So I can't imagine what the experience is to lose a child.

But I've lost people in my life who were extremely close.

So I'm sure that we could talk about very little, you know, some components of our grief experiences that are going to be shared.

The most important thing for me is that people recognize that there is space for every emotion that you have.

Like, we do not have to take any of those emotions and put them in a box and say, oh, that doesn't belong here, or oh, I can't go here with this emotion, right?

Those emotions go everywhere with you.

And all of them are valid because they're yours.

Is there a difference between grief and sadness?

Absolutely, absolutely.

Because sadness is there's, I would say a basic everyday feeling that I can experience sadness, that my big chicken didn't come out the way I want to come out.

Yeah.

But grief.

Grief embodies relationship, right?

Grief embodies connection.

And so with grief, there's this, emotional.

I would use, like for, for an analogy.

It's kind of like the anchor, right?

It's the thing that keeps me connected to this person or this situation.

Right.

So grief is a connected emotion, whereas sadness is an experience that you may have with anything.

Right?

I can have sadness with an inanimate object, right?

My batteries weren't working and I needed my flashlight.

I'm sad I couldn't get to the refrigerator.

But when it comes to grief, grief is that emotion that says there was relationship.

Relationship here.

There was a connection.

And I desire that that now has become a part of who I am.

Wow.

I definitely want to get back to that because I think that is like critical stuff.

And if today's conversation resonated with, you, know that you are not alone.

Coming up, we learn how to navigate the waves of grief and to move forward in a beautiful, meaningful way.

So please stay with us.

Welcome.

Today we're going to explore techniques to help you express your feelings effectively in relationships.

We're focusing on the art of communication and how to share emotions in a way that strengthens your connections to others.

Let's get started.

So today I want to talk to you about validation and relationships.

It is cornerstone to healthy communication.

There's really six levels of validation.

The first level of validation is just truly being present with another person.

This next level is being present and actually listening to them at this level of validation.

In today's world, it can be quite difficult because often times people have stopped listening to one another.

So you might want to get out a piece of paper and a pen and actually write down what the other person is saying to you.

You need to understand the exact communication that's going on before you can move to the next level of validation.

It's where you truly understand how they're feeling.

When you can understand how someone is feeling, give them what they're saying.

It's a more powerful situation to be in.

So once you understand how someone is feeling, exactly what they're saying.

Level four validation is all about.

Given their history, you completely understand.

So maybe you don't feel or think the same way, but you understand where the other person's coming from because you understand their history.

Level five validation is where you look, do, and say the exact same thing.

This is where you truly get a best friend.

So your friend acknowledges and can also validate everything that you're saying and doing because they would do and say the exact same thing in those situations.

Level six validation is where you're truly immersed in the exact same thing the other person is.

So you're not only feeling and thinking and doing what they're also doing, but at the exact same time.

So wonderful examples of this is like watching a movie with someone else, maybe going skiing.

Thank you for joining me today.

I hope these tips help you express your feelings effectively and build stronger relationships.

Remember, open and honest communication is the foundation to healthy connection.

Until next time, take care and keep those heart to heart conversations going.

We're back with grief counselor Felicia Glass and on a clerk who's turned tragedy into her life's purpose.

She founded The DK Impact Foundation and honor for those just joining us.

Tell us, what is The DK Foundation?

The DK Impact is a, childhood cancer foundation.

And what we do is support families navigating childhood cancer, pediatric cancer, and again, for those just joining us, your son DK cutest little boy ever passed from leukemia at age four, which sent your family into a tailspin.

Your daughter was already living at that time.

How does one do that?

Not only with your your adult, but with a sibling.

You just give it grace.

Yeah.

You just let that grace and live with gratitude.

And, what I do is try to live very intentionally every day.

So whatever that looks like my daughter may need at that time, she was away from me for a little bit of time while I was dealing with my son in the hospital, so I felt like she needed some personal time for me to, like, spend with her.

Can you share with us a little bit of your personal journey in that you were a mom for a couple of years before DK was diagnosed?

And so you, you were, you were this way he passed.

How would you have changed.

How do you think you have changed as a mother.

How are you not the same person before.

Because some people are like you know time to get to get over it, get gone.

You're like oh no no no no that's not, that's not what this is.

Can you share with us that?

It's not.

And everything has changed about me.

I'm not the person I once was.

And when it comes to that.

Like I was telling you before, I just make sure I intentionally give myself that grace.

Whatever that day looks like for me to make it through.

As long as I'm doing what I need to do.

I just go with the flow.

Phelicia, could you give us some guidance about what not to say to somebody who has lost?

For sure.

A child, a pat, a job.

What do you not say?

Yeah.

So I, you know, I could probably think of a thousand things, but the things that I will start with are, you know, the I will tell you that one of my greatest pet peeves is that I'm sorry for your loss.

Like, why are you sorry?

Did you take my child for me?

Right?

Like, I get it that we want to express sorrow, right?

But in reality, we could do a better job of just simply saying, I honor your loss, right?

Because I honor the person that you lost.

Because this.

It's not just the person.

Right.

But there are so many losses that are on your list of things that happened that have changed or transitioned and have taken on new life with the death of a person or someone that you care about, or even your pet changes in your work environment, right?

I think that I'm sorry people get tired of hearing it.

It becomes like a message that people have put on repeat, and it doesn't take a whole lot.

It's just comment thrown out language.

The other for me is, well, let me know if you need something.

Because you're never going to tell them that you need somebody, right?

Right.

So one of the things that I've really been trying to encourage people is there's just literally a theory of sending grief groceries, right?

If you want something to do for someone that you care about, send them grief groceries, send them easy snacks they can pick up, send them water, send them toilet paper, send them paper towels and then paper plates and paper cups because people are constantly coming to their house, send them sanitizer wipes because as many people are coming to their house, they need to keep themselves healthy.

You know, send them.

If you know something that's their favorite.

Send them chocolates, send a bottle of wine if you wish.

But do the things that are simple, right?

It doesn't require a lot of energy from the person that you're trying to support.

And it's it's really a sign that I'm I'm thinking of you and I want to do something for you.

Right.

All right.

Let's go on with that a little bit more, because then you always hear you're in our thoughts and prayers.

Oh, okay.

Or the famous.

Well, God wouldn't give you any more than you could bear or they're in a better place.

Right.

And I am deeply spiritual.

But one of the things I know is that does not count the heart.

Right?

So before you go to speak, I often encourage people just think about how will your words provide comfort?

How will your words lift them up?

Will they be of encouragement right?

I don't want to say something that's going to leave you lingering, right?

So now I've put you in your feelings instead of walking alongside you.

But there's so many people who want to say the magic thing that makes it all go away.

And they're like, I have no idea what to say.

There's nothing I can say to make it better.

I just won't, I just oh, I see you at the grocery store.

I'll just, you know.

Yeah, I may hide.

It's like, no, no, no no no, don't do that.

What do we do instead?

You be normal people and say hello and carry on like normal, everyday people, right?

So I think just because we recognize that someone has a loss, I think we can be afraid.

Oh, I don't want to engage.

I don't know what to say.

When in reality, the best thing that we have found that we can do for people is just be present.

And so, I recently was in a Bible study and heard this statement, we don't have to apply pressure.

We can just be present.

Right.

And so there's no pressure here to show up and do something or say the right thing.

How about you just be present?

Can I is there, you know, can I come and sit with you, you know, or.

Hey, it's really good to see you.

You know, I just want you to know that I'm praying for you or I'm thinking about you or you've been in my thoughts.

Right?

I don't have to elaborate and make the conversation about their loss.

I can just be present at the moment and take up the space that we have right now on a what was something that someone said to you or did for you that helped?

Just my whole support system, my family being there, and giving me space if I needed that or being there if I needed to talk or cry.

Whatever that day looked like for me, that was helpful.

And they adjusted pretty easy to what I needed.

What is the person who has had the loss?

How can they make others feel comfortable in approaching them?

I don't think it's their responsibility, okay?

It's not their responsibility.

Our responsibility as people are to be genuine and to be authentic, and we are allowed to just show up as ourselves.

And so if there was something that I could take out of the world, it would be the need to perform, because it shows when you're being performative, our job is just to be.

And so if I can run into on it at the store or run into Betty Lou at an event and just be my natural self like I was the last time we met before you lost a child.

That is how we be.

It's not our job to put the pressure on the person who's grieving to make me feel comfortable.

How petty is that?

How do you deal with, people who kind of categorize different types of losses?

You said, you know, losses, loss groups of it doesn't matter what it is, but to the outside offering it as well, it's.

Yeah.

I'm sorry you lost your job.

It's not the same thing as losing XYZ or.

I'm sorry you lost your pet.

It was just a pet.

You didn't lose your child.

I mean, and that's an unfair categorization, but people do that.

How do we.

How do we approach that?

I think that it's everyone's job to take their experiences for themselves.

Right.

So my importance, what's important to me may not be the same as what's important to you.

One of the things that we I mean, I blame society, right?

US culture, our culture says that we have to have a stacker or a ranking in everything.

We don't need to rank our grief.

If you are sorrowful because you have this pet that you have loved and put your time and energy into, and I'm sorrowful because I've lost my sibling who I've loved and put my time and energy into.

And you have a child, like all of our grief experiences are equal, right?

No one gets to tell you how to grieve or what to grieve over.

We don't know how much of our identity is involved in that job.

Some people live to wake up for that job, right?

Some people live to go home to get that pet that's going to meet them at the door, because no one else in their day has said hello.

Right.

We don't have to quantify everything with a ranking order.

I love that and then we'll be back with a few last thoughts from Anna and Felicia.

So please stay with us.

This is we're back with two very special young ladies, Anna & Phelicia.

We do have just a few moments left.

Again, for those just tuning in, we are talking about DK Impact.

We're talking about loss and grief and Anna, at losing DK - How did you come out of a spiral of grief, and how did you intentionally turn that into something positive?

So I think first I had to, make a decision not to stay stuck in that it's okay to feel on days, but, I just try to focus on not staying stuck there.

So just getting up each day, making sure I get moving and, turning that pain into purpose, helping the families has been therapeutic for me.

But thinking of deep impact, I mean, that's a huge step to make an organization to help others expand on that.

Please.

I think we need more of that.

Yeah.

I think with community, yeah, we will get further.

I just think that it's really important, all of us sticking together.

And, even if a mother doesn't need, like, financial assistance, but just someone to talk to who can relate to what they're going through, even though each child goes through their journeys different.

I think that that's important to have that option there.

I know we've talked about this a little bit before, but I'd like to hit it on again.

I heard the analogy that grief is like having carrying around a big old rock in your pocket, and you just have it all the time, and you just kind of get used to it and you kind of forget, and you go about your day and you put your head in your pocket, go, oh yeah, I still have that because that's and then you want to reach out for help, to talk to people.

But sometimes the people in your lives also are hurting and grieving for the same thing.

Reasons you are.

How do you not always just rely on your support system that you have?

And when is it time to get.

I need a professional help because my my support system is hurting as much as I am.

So I think it's important to remember that when we are natural support systems, we have relationships.

So effective communication is key, right?

So, a lot of times we'll find that people aren't talking about the loss of the loved one or the person.

We're no longer saying their name.

We're no longer engaging.

Because I don't want to make you cry.

I don't know how much you can handle.

Right.

So if you can see and are experiencing those visible differences and that we're not, our relationship is being halted or being harmed in some way, then maybe that's not the person, but it doesn't mean someone in the family.

It's not one of the key factors for me around getting outside.

Therapeutic help is when you find that either the circle around you are not listening, right, they're doing more talking than listening.

It's time to seek someone else.

When you find that you are not able to find purpose so you're no longer have, you don't have the energy or you're not able to, quantify in some way a reason to move forward.

When you are sitting in your feelings instead of with your feelings.

See someone.

Thank you both.

This has been amazing and I am so sorry.

Darn it.

I had more questions and I'll bet you do too.

It was such an honor to have you both here Anna and Phelicia.

And what a comforting to know that even in loss, there can be moments of light and as a reminder, you can watch this program again at watch.ktwu.org.

And if you are so inspired to learn more about our guests, find out what's coming up on future shows and get access to additional content.

Be sure to visit our website at www.ktwu.org/insipre Inspiring women, inspiring everyone to take care of yourself and reach out when you need support.

Inspiring you we hope on KTWU and we thank you for watching.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.