Across the nation, women are leading correctional institutions, supervising staff and helping shape the future of criminal justice.

Their stories are both inspiring and enlightening.

Today we'll meet two of these Kansas leaders.

Coming up on Inspire.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation, and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.

Hello and welcome to Inspire.

We have a show featuring two amazing women making a difference in the Sunflower State, and I can't wait to hear from them.

Now I can't wait to start our conversation with my Inspire Sisters.

We got Betty Lou Pardue and Lesley Fleuranges.

While many public safety professions receive widespread recognition, correction professionals often work quietly behind the scenes.

Today, we feature some inspiring women who have dedicated their careers to maintaining safety, supporting rehabilitation, and serving their communities.

We welcome Gloria Gaither, deputy secretary of Facility management for the Kansas Department of Corrections, and Megan Millner, deputy secretary of Juvenile and Adult Community-Based services for the Kansas Department of Corrections.

And we welcome you both.

We have been waiting to speak with you about this very important subject, but I got to take us back.

Two years ago, it seemed like the only professions available to women were nursing, maybe a secretary or a schoolteacher.

If we could begin both of you, I'd love to know.

What inspired you to take on this role in corrections?

So, I, I started back in 2000 and, when I graduated from college, actually Washburn University and, I, I always knew that I wanted to work with people, although I really wasn't sure in what capacity my parents raised me and all of my siblings with the value of, there's nothing more noble you can do with your life than to serve other people.

And I think there's a lot of different ways people can do that.

This was the career path for me.

And, and it's and it's worked out well for me.

But a lot of that was like you had, psychology in that type of that.

It was that kind of piqued your interest even more.

I started out as a political science major and then realized that was not for me.

Okay, then, and so I switched to psychology just because of the, I'm I'm so interested in human behavior.

What motivates people's behavior, why people do what they do.

So really great fit in corrections, right?

As you're working with people and trying to help them change their own behavior, having that understanding is, is really foundational.

All right.

And Gloria, so I started in corrections in 1990 right out of college.

I wanted to work with, the female population to try to help people change their lives and, give them a sense of hope and, try to help rebuild their lives when they come back out into society.

I was told a long time ago that there's no greater privilege than trying to help someone in a vulnerable population.

And so I wanted to have the privilege of working with a population like that.

So I just knew I wanted to go in that direction.

And corrections.

I love you both already.

Yeah.

So profound.

That is profound.

Thank you.

And that's a wonderful thing.

I got to see some footage from the facility in preparation for our talk today.

You two are some of the most kind people that I've seen.

And it just it goes against the narratives sometimes that we see about how prison life really is.

So before we even get into that, I want to know, are there some challenges that you face as a woman and corrections?

Because I would think that you're part of like a few people who are actually involved in the industry.

And I'll go ahead and start with you.

Sure.

I think, you know, being a woman in this field has some of the same challenges that I think you would experience and a lot of in a lot of other fields.

It's just a, you know, corrections as a unique field in and of itself.

I think for, for a lot of women, for a lot of, for a lot of agencies, actually, people talk about everyone having a seat at the table, regardless of what gender you are.

I think sometimes what people don't understand is that for a woman to get a seat at the table, what she has to do to get a seat at that table is often, is often different.

What she has to prove, what she has to demonstrate.

And so I think, you know, the the balance also that women have, oftentimes showing up for work and then also showing up at home.

I think some of I think those are some of the challenges that are, maybe not unique to corrections, but just to being a female in a leadership position in general.

Gloria.

Well, I think I agree with Megan completely.

When I started and stuff, there wasn't, women in leadership positions.

There was very few women in leadership positions.

It's mostly a male dominated field at that time.

And so, women not having a voice, even though having the experience not being heard, things like that, you know, is a challenge to get, a seat at the table.

Those women that did have a seat at the table made sure they brought the rest of us along to make sure that we had seats at the table and stuff, and made sure that they mentored us and coached us, and for the next generation to take over.

So, you know, they helped us become better for the next the next time.

So I know you're doing it going forward.

Absolutely.

So tell me then, did you start as a corrections officer and go up the ranks?

Is that how this works?

So I started out, I started out my first job was, I had to start a program for moms and their children.

Called the Women's Activities and Learning Center at the Topeka Correctional Facility.

So my job was to create programs for moms and their children.

So that, moms would have an opportunity to see their children while they were incarcerated.

And so that was my first job.

I was 21 years old and had to start a program for moms and their kids.

And so, that was my first that was my first job in corrections.

And so when when you're in the facilities themselves, is it is it dangerous work?

I mean, the first thing I thought of when we were talking about, you know, having this show, I thought, wow, that and I've had, employees that have left my, facility and gone back into corrections.

So they came out.

They did.

That one was a groomer for me.

And then she decided to go back into, corrections.

And I thought, wow, this sounds so dangerous, but I don't.

So is this a dangerous field for women?

Yeah.

Well, so you have to you have to remember that, first, 97% of the population is going to get out.

So the more we can help program them, give them opportunities and program give them opportunities as far as programing and prepare them for reentry back into society and stuff, the better they're going to be as law abiding citizens.

And so, you know, so, I mean, it's it's those that have been condemned to incarceration by, the system and by their peers.

So, I mean, it's a, it's, you know, it's a it can be sure.

Absolutely.

But, they're also some of the nicest people you'll ever meet that just made a bad mistake, right?

You know, it's trying to teach people that.

Don't let that one mistake define you for the rest of your life.

How do you overcome that one mistake?

And how do we help you be better for the next time when you come out?

So you're not defined by that and give you better opportunities.

So that doesn't happen again.

So, you know, prison isn't a life for people.

That's not a wonderful place for people to be.

And it doesn't bring out the best in people.

You have to remember every day when you're working in that environment, that you're working in a prison.

I've been, warden at the Topeka Correctional Facility and also the acting warden at the Lansing Correctional Facility.

But you have to remind yourself every day that you're walking into a prison environment.

But I also feel safer in a prison environment than I do out on the streets.

Really?

Why?

Why is that?

Because up out in a prison, you know who you're dealing with.

You know?

You know who, who you're around and what your is like and stuff like that on the street.

You don't know who people are.

That's true.

So and what are reasons that women are incarcerated?

I'm sure you know, murder, theft, that type of thing.

But what are some other reasons why a woman in particular would be incarcerated?

So I think that you might be better suited to answer that question.

So this is going to be unpopular.

But most women are in prison because of a man for a man or against a man and tells a story.

I. Absolutely.

And so that's why most women are incarcerated.

And so while you know, whether they're running drugs for someone turned to drugs because of someone or sold them for someone, whatever the case may be.

But that's mostly why women are incarcerated.

And so, I would love the stats on that.

That's, that's and I have absolutely no problem believing that I'm thousand percent believe that.

That's what I believe in.

You work with juveniles.

So tell us about that.

What are some of the incidents or situations that students, children find themselves in that they end up incarcerated?

I think young people, commit crime for a wide variety of reasons.

Sometimes it's ingrained in family.

Sometimes it's related to self-preservation or self-protection.

Sometimes it's, related to peer pressure.

So there's a wide variety of reasons why young people, get into that type of lifestyle.

I think, you know, one of the things that a lot of people don't know about, young people who maybe are engaged in that type of lifestyle, is that the majority of young people will age out of that type of behavior.

And that's really just about brain development, maturity, growth.

You know, you get old enough and you realize, I don't want to I don't want to keep engaging in some of those behaviors.

So most, most young people will age out of those types of behaviors.

And then there's some that will graduate, so to speak, from the juvenile justice system over to the adult criminal justice system.

And what are the age ranges for young people in Kansas?

Youth as young as ten years old can be adjudicated by the courts as a juvenile offender, and they can remain in the juvenile justice system up to the age.

The the max age really is about 23.

So a very young person all the way up to a young adult.

Yeah.

So I just have to be transparent and say that, tender loving care pet nursing hotel.

We actually do, and have hired a second chance.

Lady, that's that works for us.

Who, Just yesterday we had the discussion that she has no intention of going back to the life that she was in.

And to your point, Megan, about them being wonderful people, she is an outstanding individual, and she has just this past week, and we lost power for 48 hours.

She called a friend of hers.

He brought over his gas generator and put us back, with power.

So, you know, she has been a godsend to us.

And, you know, I would recommend any, you know, small business entrepreneur, whatever, that if they have an opportunity to take advantage of the second chance program, that they do so because it is meaningful to be able to help someone get out of that system and get back into the real world where they can, you know, make a contribution to society, which is what we all want to do.

And, so I think what you ladies are doing is so important and, you know, your rock stars and you're right, this is a very silent, profession that I think I'm thrilled that we are, you know, making a difference by bringing it out and, you know, letting people know what's happening and that this is a great opportunity for women who may want to go into that profession.

And so thank you for all that you're doing.

And I'd like to tag time tag team on that because, also being transparent, I help at the Humane Shelter and there is a wonderful program.

Would you explain that.

So in in most of our facilities, we have a partnership with the local humane society's throughout the state where, if there's, there's animals that are dogs, particularly that are, not as adoptable, that they'll give them to the resident, at our facilities.

And, we have, you know, we select the residents based upon, you know, behaviors, good behavior and things like that.

And the residents will help train them and teach them and, you know, get them more socialized and things like that.

So then they can become more adoptable.

And so, you know, so then we can adopt them out or the Humane Society adopts about and then start back over.

But, I mean, it's a wonderful program between the for the residents and for the Humane Society.

So, you know, there's just the other day I was out when I was at, Lansing, you know, I was throwing a Frisbee with the resident and, and his, his dog.

And so, you know, there's, you know, it's just watching that interaction and stuff and seeing, you know, a resident, experience joy like that.

And, you know, knowing that the animal had something to do with that.

And, and the dogs experience and, and so and so not caged up the whole time.

Yes, I yeah, the young lady that works for us has trained learn how to train dogs.

And so she really sets up our dogs into, you know, what they need to be doing while they're with us.

She is just been a godsend to us.

That's wonderful.

Yeah.

That's wonderful.

Thank you for doing that.

For.

Absolutely.

Well, I'm loving these stories already, and we haven't even gotten to the second half of the show.

But public service takes many forms, and today's discussion highlights one of the most demanding and meaningful professions in our communities.

We'll learn more about Gloria and Megan's respective journeys coming up in our next segment, so please stay with us.

We're back to continue our discussion with Gloria Geither Deputy Secretary of Facility management, and Megan Millner, Deputy secretary of juvenile and Adult Community based services for the Kansas Department of Corrections.

Okay, so when we broke up, we were talking about, being safe in the jail.

We were talking about, how fabulous the residents are who are working with dogs.

That has helped out TLC, helped out the Humane Society.

But tell me now, is there ever a situation of overcrowding and how are you folks dealing with that?

And how are you dealing with, you know, residents that have children?

Do we still have things set up for them to be able to see their children and interact with their families?

So we still we still have the Women's Activities and Learning Center at the Topeka Correctional Facility.

We have a partnership with the Children's Discovery Center here in Topeka, where, they're coming into the facilities and they've, you know, developed nice visiting areas for, the fathers now and the children.

And they also have, take some of the guys that qualify out into the community so they can spend time with their, children out in the community.

You know, on the, you know, one day on the weekend.

So we have those kinds of activities So those kinds of things are going on for the children.

We're also, working on a nursery to be built at the Topeka Correctional Facility for moms that deliver, their babies while they're incarcerated so they can spend, up to 18 months with their children while they're incarcerated.

So that's good.

It's wonderful.

It's a wonderful opportunity.

We've been wanting to do it as long as I've been, in the department.

So I'm honored to be a part of watching this, unfold.

So as far as rehabilitation, can we talk about programs for rehabilitation, especially for women?

So there's, you know, we have programing for women.

You know, back when I started, there weren't a lot of parity programs for women.

I mean, most of the funding and stuff went towards the men's programs and stuff.

And so, you know, as time went on, more money went into the women, for programing.

But, you know, when you think about, most of the population is males, so that, you know, typically is where the funding went.

But now women are getting, you know, their GED in their, they're getting, we have a cosmetology program that's being built at the Topeka Correctional Facility.

We have private, industry partners that are coming in, and, and, women are being able to work for, comparable wages and things like that, that there weren't, wages before for them to work.

So there's wonderful opportunities for the women today that as opposed to what there was you know, ten years ago.

So there's and vocation programs, things of that nature for the women now.

So is there any kind of follow up when, when they're actually out?

Does anybody check in on them to make sure that they're proceeding?

So that's where a parole officer comes in.

So when an individual releases from one of our facilities and they're returning to the communities, there's a parole officer that's assigned to help support them.

And really, we, you know, they're called a parole officer, but I would describe them as more of a case manager or a case manager, someone who's there to, support them, encourage them, connect them to community resources, provide them with guidance, all of those things.

But for that period of time, when they first transition from a facility out into a community, those individuals, the parole officers are there to help, help support them.

I think changing behavior requires a couple of things.

One, we have to believe that we can do it, that we can, that we can change, that we have the skills to be able to do that.

And then the other part is there has to be a pathway for people to make that change.

So I think a lot of these programs that Gloria was talking about, those help build skills and our resident adult and juvenile.

So, the things I say to myself, how I think about situations that I'm in, but then those programs also help create those pathways for individuals to make those changes in behavior.

So the employment, that education, it's it's all it's the combination of those things that really helps when those individuals or at least from the facilities back to communities and, some I got to see firsthand at the Discovery Center when a number of the women came over.

And just thinking about it makes me a little emotional, because it was beautiful seeing the women interacting with their kids away from the prison, and just knowing that they had worked so hard to be able to have an entire day where they started out with breakfast and then playing with the kids, and then have pizza and ice cream in the afternoon.

And it was just beautiful.

And then, of course, at the very end, seeing the kids have to, you know, separate from their folks was just so difficult.

I just I want to thank you for starting that program.

I also want to talk about your leadership styles.

Do you think as women, you lead differently, like maybe a more nurturing, way in the facilities as opposed to some of the men that might be in those same positions?

You know, I think probably about 90% of the work that we do is about relationships, and it's about building relationships, whether it's inside the facilities or I'm more on the community side in our state.

And, and so those relationships become really important.

I think that's a strength that women bring to the leadership table is communication.

Not just me communicating myself, but hearing and really understanding what Gloria is saying back to me or what you're saying back to me.

It's that two way communication.

I think that's one of the strengths that women bring to this field.

Yeah, I agree, I think also I think women also have a better understanding of, the dynamic of someone, of, of the holistic approach for someone like it's just not, we take a look at like the family dynamic and someone, we take a look at the, mental health and someone we take a look at.

The trauma in someone.

We're able to encapsulate everything into that individual and find out what all is involved in that individual that's going to help them be successful and be able to articulate that or communicate that and see a different side to that person.

Or I think, what I'm told is that, you know, that's harder for some men to do in our field.

They just look at one area and I think women are able to look at the whole picture of somebody and try to get them the resources and, and meet those needs on different accounts and, and communicate on a different level.

Because of all of those issues, family issues and things like that.

So, I think, I think we bring a different approach to that.

You know, the way that prisons are depicted in films and on television are so negative.

Yeah.

And I mean that, you know, coming here today, I was thinking, oh, you know, but the way that you talk about what you're doing, the programs that you have, the way that you look at the residents, it doesn't seem as though it is that way.

It's it's it's frustrating to see over and over and over the negative as ever.

Yeah.

That is portrayed in prisons.

Is there any way, that you, you ladies have been able to try and, you know, insert or is there, you know, is there is there some way to insert a different view, of the prisons out there?

I know it's kind of an off question, but, you know, it's just so frustrating to me to hear this.

I we're in we're in the people business.

That's the that's the business that we're in.

And if, if we don't believe that it's possible for people to change, what are we doing in this business?

Right.

And, not only for the residents or the offenders that we're supervising.

But we believe the same thing about our staff, right?

That our staff can grow, that they can excel, that they can climb the ladder, that they can learn new things.

And we really are in the business of changing behavior.

And, and the moment we get to the place where we don't believe that anymore, we, we need to stop.

Right.

But it's a, it's about people.

And so and, you know, it sounds like you've taken some of the things that are going on in Topeka and you've been able to bring industry into the prisons, which I think can really help change it.

And, you know, it sounds like you guys need some PR, you know, and, so I'm going to talk to somebody about, you know, getting some more PR for you.

Yeah.

To get this message out about what you're doing and trying to change the lives.

I read that you've also done some work with, legislation to try.

Can you talk about that?

Is that what you've done?

Gloria?

I don't know what.

Megan, what would you.

There's, Gosh, we do we do a lot of that with our agency.

So, our agency, thankfully, is supported by the governor's office and our Kansas legislature.

And so, you know, just even looking at this last session, if you look at agency wide, there were several things that our legislature supported us with.

One was, a bill that, requires that the Department of Corrections ensure that every resident who releases from a correctional facility has certain documents, like a birth certificate, an ID, Social Security card, so that when they go out into the community, that's not a barrier to them obtaining employment or housing.

And, really, it was something it was a path we were already headed down.

So it was really exciting for us that the legislature supported that.

I would, you know, even on the on the juvenile side, there was, you know, people are very passionate about, about youth and about justice involved youth.

And so there is always a very robust discussion about how, how we can support Kansas communities as they're working with young people.

And, so we're really grateful for the, you know, I mentioned earlier the importance of relationships and that extends to our legislature as well, that we have learned a lot.

You know, we have learned a lot.

Thank you.

That is all the time we have for today.

We thank Gloria and Megan for your service.

And please continue.

And as a reminder, you can watch this program again at watch.ktwu.org And if you are so inspired to learn more about our guests, find out what's coming up on future shows and get access to additional content.

Be sure to visit our website at www.ktwu.org/inspire Inspire inspiring women, inspiring everyone to make a difference in your corner of the world.

Inspiring you on KTWU.

Thank you for watching.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.