From international modeling to global advocacy, Lisa Phillips has transformed personal tragedy into purpose.

Today, she joins us for a powerful conversation.

Don't miss it.

Coming up on Inspire.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation, and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.

Hello.

Welcome to Inspire.

We are so honored to feature a very special episode today.

Lovely.

Inspire sisters.

Danielle.

Amy.

As well as a very important guest that I know will bring you inspiration, advocacy and survival.

It's all coming here on Inspire today.

Human trafficking and exploitation are issues that often remain hidden in plain sight.

Today's guest has dedicated her life to changing that reality.

Lisa Phillips has transformed one of the most difficult chapters of her life into a mission to educate communities and empower survivors and encourage difficult but necessary conversations.

We are grateful to welcome her, to Inspire.

Lisa, thank you so much for joining us on our show.

Thank you, thank you.

I'm super excited to be here.

Sadly, your name has been now forever associated with an incredibly difficult period of American history.

But before we jump there, tell us who's Lisa Phillips?

Before.

Before all of that.

Who?

Who was Lisa Phillips and who is Lisa Phillips?

So before 2000, all of that.

Wow.

Let's see here.

I graduate high school in Belgium.

My father worked for NATO, so I grew up living my first few light years of my life in England and back in the States, and then back in Europe.

And so, grew up, you know, in a beautiful family.

Did lots of sports and things like that.

And I was always really interested in the modeling business.

And this is, you know, the mid 90s.

And so, you know, just like many young girls wanting to be a fashion model.

And so I started working, in Europe and in London and like, Paris a little bit and, in, in Brussels or as close to my home and then, graduate high school and I moved to Miami and, worked in L.A.

and started traveling around and building my, my book and my career at that time.

So I'm just kind of living the life and, and really enjoying my life at that point.

Okay, so we need to get to the elephant in the room.

There's a beautiful photo of you, as in, you're in a yellow boat.

But I want you to tell us where you're going.

Who is making you go there?

And then how it is when you come back.

This is Jeffrey Epstein.

Well, correct.

So, I looked very happy in that boat because I was on the way to Jeffrey Epstein's island, and, you know, I was in the modeling business.

I had booked a really important job.

I had flown with the crew down to Tortola in the British West Indies, and I just had a day off from work.

And the other young model, she was, Polish.

And she's like, I have a friend, you know, who owns an island nearby.

We can go there and hang out for the day.

And so I was just like, sure, let's go.

And the clients let us go.

And so that's, the picture that you're talking about.

I was on the boat like the the islands behind me.

I was heading there.

I had no idea, you know, what my fate was going to be, right?

Gosh, now that you bring that up, I wish I'd never gotten on that boat.

Right.

But it's important, because, you know, it brought me to where I am today, and, so I just went over to the island just to spend the day there with the girl.

And I saw someone very important in the in the pool who's become important today with my fight in the UK.

And that was, former Prince Andrew.

He was in the pool, and I was introduced to him, later on that evening at dinner.

And, you know, I, I met Epstein and, you know, he introduced himself.

He sat down next to me and I think this is where the grooming started with me, is that he just locked right in and was like, wanted to know all about my childhood, how I grew up.

How much did my father play a role in my life?

How often did he call me?

You know, and I had a really great childhood, I really did, but it wasn't, I didn't have a really close relationship with my dad.

He was a great father, but he didn't call me a lot.

And I spoke to him about that, which, looking back at that, I think it made him think I wasn't.

I had a great childhood.

But you you're not protected.

And so, a lot of these predators prey on vulnerable people who maybe need that type of guidance.

From a male figure.

And I definitely ate that up.

So I was really intrigued with him, and I just couldn't believe this man of his stature was paying attention to me.

To be honest with you.

And I just, had a lovely meal with the other girls there, and, I thought that was going to be it.

But then he tells me that, you know, you're not able to go back today.

Back to the other island.

You need to stay here.

The water is rapid and it's getting late and blah, blah, blah.

And so we were just like, okay.

And so we ended up staying there that night.

And later on that evening, one of the other young girls came and knocked on the door and was like, Jeffrey's ready for his massage.

And so that's when everything changed.

Oh my goodness.

You talked about the word grooming for some of our viewers who are not familiar with that word, can you give us your definition?

And what was it about Epstein that made him so trustworthy to other people?

And not not just women, but just people in general, that they would want to be around him like that.

That's that's a loaded question, because I think I, in the general, way that people talked about him back then is they admired him.

He was mysterious.

He wasn't a Playboy.

He was very much behind the scenes.

And he was so intelligent that people went to him for advice, you know, and he was friends with all these very influential people.

So people saw him as a stature of, like, someone to know and, and for whatever reason, he we know now.

But back then he took, particular interest him and Glisane Maxwell of young people.

You know, I'll give you scholarships and I'll help you get into this, university or this modeling agency or this school or this, you know, you want to be in tech.

Here's this institution, I can I can help you.

He knew everybody.

So I think people just looked up to him and admired him.

And this is the year 2000 I'm talking about.

We didn't have these conversations around grooming.

I had no idea what grooming was.

I just thought, well, this is this person who took an interest in me.

Most men don't take an interest in young women.

And they definitely don't ask you questions about your family and, and things like that.

So I thought it was like, oh, he's interested in me.

So I don't know.

I took the attention as, something special at that moment.

Right.

And the young woman who brought me there, she was Eastern European.

She had gotten her visa to work in the United States by him.

And now we've come to know he's the visas to a lot of young models from Eastern Europe.

Brought him over to New York.

And, you know, they were they were trafficked.

So we know all these things now, back then, I mean, I had no idea.

I was just there to hang out for the day during a modeling shoot.

I didn't think anything of it.

And then the massage part, I didn't know, understand what was going on because I'd never given a massage, you know, and I just didn't really understand what was going on.

Why?

Wow.

So the the assault and the abuse began.

We don't need to relive that for you, but when when when it when you found yourself in it, was there a point you're like, this isn't right.

This isn't.

I'm not.

My spidey senses are all going up.

This isn't right.

How do you how did you what?

What was that like?

Well, I don't think my spidey senses went off.

Really?

I just think I was just like.

What are you talking about, a massage?

I didn't, as we know, Jeffrey Epstein, that's how he abused everyone.

Was through massages.

So I just thought it was a regular massage that I was, like, had to do because I'm stuck on this island.

So I went with the girls over to the bedroom where he was, you know, laying on a massage table for a massage, learned real massage techniques.

That's what turned into an assault that evening, and I just froze.

I didn't really know what to do, I didn't, I thought about running away, but I was on an island.

And, you know, I don't know how to get away, and I just.

So I just went through with it, and we went back to the room.

He assaulted both of us that evening.

We went back to the room, and then just waited until the boat came early in the morning.

And when we went back, you know.

So I think you have to understand, the way people talked about abuse back then, I don't think we even talked about it, but you know what I mean?

So it was something that we just had to hold and be quiet about and, and not really think about, which manifests in so many different.

Right.

Negative things for you.

You know, once you've gone through something like that and you don't really have access to a community or support system, you know, it's not easy.

From there, you actively told not to say anything.

Did was were there threats of any kind toward you?

Well, not initially okay.

But after I left, you know, I thought that was the end of everything.

You know, I didn't think I would ever see that man again.

But then, you know, he had secretaries and they would just call you profusely to go and meet with him.

And I would say, no, no, leave me alone.

But he started calling the secretaries, sort of calling the model agencies.

So the model agencies.

Oh, yeah.

It's it's like the model agency.

Lisa Phillips is to go meet with me.

And so they were they weren't complicit, but they were just like, not knowing what was going on.

So the way that, you know, just long story short, we have all day here.

But like, you know, he pulled me back in by saying, hey, you know, on the island, you said you wanted to be a Ford model.

You know, I'm best friends with the owner.

I'm going to send you over there.

And then of course, I was like, oh, wow.

Oh, wow, you actually care about me?

Or maybe he feels bad for what he did on the island, you know, and maybe just saying, okay, well, well, I'm going to go because I want to meet her.

Right.

You know, and so that that's actually where I, in hindsight, shouldn't have listened to him, but I don't know how he would have, kept trying for me to be in his orbit because he has to keep these young women in his orbit.

And, you know, and there's different ways of doing that.

And for me, I think I saw someone very important on that island, and I needed to be silenced.

So that's why he cut me back in.

He, you know, pulled me back in.

And then now all of a sudden, I'm in the modeling industry, which I was before, but now I'm at a higher level of modeling industry.

And then we found out over the years that they were complicit.

There was an exchange of girls going back and forth that we know today.

It's a fact.

It's in the files and everything.

That's why a lot of them up stepped down and resigned.

And not just men.

We're talking about women.

So I mean, I had no idea back then I was a real back into his world.

The fashion industry was a bit of a sex trafficking ring back then.

You know, as we've come to find out.

So I didn't know these things until literally just a couple of years ago.

And the important person you saw happened to be the prince.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

And it's and it's funny, like, I knew that I was introduced to him.

Jeffrey had asked me, he'd said, you know, like, where'd you grow up and stuff like that?

And I said, well, and I was in Oxford, England, and he was then he was like, you want to meet a prince?

You know, I don't think he was ever intending for me to meet the prince there.

I think it was something I probably wasn't supposed to see.

But the fact that I saw him in the fact that he assaulted me, it was the fact that I wasn't getting away.

So it wasn't easy to get away.

And, And I understand all this now.

Back then, I just was understanding, but I didn't understand it back then.

But, you know, I, I moved on with my life after 2004, and it wasn't until, 2019 when he, I, I sitting in my couch on my, on the couch in the living room, and I saw on the TV screen that he had passed away, you know, he died by suicide in jail.

And I just thought it was just like a click, like a weight off my shoulders, because finally I was like, okay, maybe I can talk about things now or talk to somebody and find a support system and try to understand what happened to me.

I had seen a interview with Virginia Giuffre.

We all know, you know, with her memoir.

You know, she's talked about being she, she was the first one to speak out and be brave.

But she talked about all this abuse that had gone on, by Glisane Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein through very powerful people.

And I was just like through the survivors, sisters wanted to reach out to her and say, hey, very naively, like, you know, I believe you because I know I saw this person, right?

And I give you, you know, and I and I had a girlfriend who had another incident that was very similar.

So I want to stand up for you, I believe you.

So my initial advocacy was for other people to support your story and your story, you know, because it wasn't really just speak out about my story.

And then I was deposed for a couple cases, and then I went through the settlement fund where I had to tell my whole story.

And Brad Edwards is my attorney out of Florida.

He's an advocate, you know, and he is the attorney for a lot of survivors.

And he just said, look Lisa, you were trafficked.

Yeah.

Know.

And I was like, no, I wasn't stop.

Like, come on.

It's like, I didn't want to believe it, you know?

And I wasn't trapped.

I was in a white van and sent to another country.

And, you know, he's like, no, this is what trafficking is.

And you need to understand that you were trafficked because he was aware that the people that I told him that I went to for auditions or castings and things like that, there's, 10 or 20 other young girls that were sent to the same people.

You are amazing.

And I wish you guys could be right here, because the radiance that is just coming from Lisa is is amazing.

But coming up, we are going to learn a lot more about Lisa Phillip's remarkable journey and her message of hope.

Do stay with us.

Thank you.

Today's guest is turning personal pain into public purpose, helping shine a light on the issues of trafficking, exploitation and victim support.

We're back to continue our discussion with Lisa Phillips.

And obviously, you have moved all of us here on the set of inspire and I want to know about the very first time that you shared, because a lot of people don't feel like they can share what was that first time like for you?

What fears, what anxiety came along with that?

And did you share to a family member a friend?

How did you relate your experiences with Jeffrey Epstein?

Well, that was a process for me.

When I saw him that he had died, I was it had a partner at that time, and I, he saw me have a, a physical reaction to it.

I ran to the room and nobody came to console me, you know, and I was just like, okay, so a few days later, you know, we were driving in the car and I was like, you know, sweetie, I want to tell you what happened to me with this man.

I don't really understand it, but I want to start talking about it.

I he just said, I don't want to hear it.

Oh, and I was just like, What?

I remember being like, I was ready.

I was finally ready after it was 15 years to that is the importance of finding the the right support system and the right partner.

That one let that wouldn't last after that former partner ex-partner because I wanted, I wanted I wanted to feel like I could own that story and start talking about it.

Right.

And but I but I needed support to talk about it because I didn't even understand it.

Right.

But thank goodness for my survivor sisters.

That's who I reached out to.

I didn't have family that really supported me.

My partner at the time did not, and so I tried with some friends, some 1 or 2, some didn't.

People didn't understand this.

You know, this is the beginning of, you know, 2018, 2020 was the most didn't really understand it.

And they blamed the victims.

So, you know, it took me a little bit of time.

And it was the survivor sisters Virginia Jaffray America chart.

You need like all of them that we still stand together today except for Virginia.

Yeah, but we do it in her honor, right?

Sure.

You know, it's so it's grown.

I started speaking out for others and then slowly started learning my story.

I only just until last January, started really understanding my story.

Really understanding really what was involved, really understanding the trafficking, really understanding, institutions that were involved.

So it definitely took time.

But speaking out, for the first time was Capitol Hill.

The first time was only last eight months ago, last September.

Wow.

In a relatively public forum was.

Yes.

And that was really the first time when I stood up there and I just said, this is the sex trafficking network, right?

You know, global.

But nobody was supposed to know who you were.

Well, we were the survivors coming forward, right?

You know, and they're like, why now?

Why during Biden?

Why now?

Like what?

It's because this is the only time that we've were given so many years.

You know, we've gone to the FBI, to the authorities, and nothing has really happened.

So it was just the movement that was happening.

Right.

And standing there with those survivors, telling our stories like I was getting mad listening to some of the stories because I was in my early 20s, like a lot of us were.

But the girls that were standing with us from Florida, that came from very hard backgrounds.

Some of their parents were in jail or were drug addicts.

They were 14 or 15 years old, you know, when they were abused, over and over and over again.

And Epstein got a sweetheart deal in Florida, and there were over 40 young girls that came forward, teenagers that came forward.

So this has been going on a really long time, this fight.

So when we were standing up there at Capitol Hill, we were like done with this, right?

And that's why I said those powerful words, oh, I'm taking my power back.

You know, you're not going to release these names.

We know the names, right?

And that reception that you got, the, Capitol Hill.

How did.

It was good.

Was it?

It was actually really, really good.

We got so many letters and so many people reaching out and saying, oh, I see myself in you guys.

I'm a survivor as well.

You know, there's many people who are survivors of domestic violence and trafficking and child abuse and all sorts of things out there that saw the survivors in them.

And so they were inspired by us, you know.

And so it became this powerful movement.

All of my survivors, sisters, they all do advocacy work.

You know, we work with different groups and they speak out and they do seminars and they they speak at the United Nations.

You know, we were there when Pam Bondi, you know, during the hearing, you know, so we had this really great momentum up until the Pam Bondi hearing.

And we really realized during that we were like, oh my goodness, they're not on our side, right?

She couldn't even look at us.

Do you think we've taken a step back?

I thought during that I was like, this is not good.

We we I saw those representatives yelling at them.

They had these print out boards up.

You know, I was saying, look at this.

Why are you redacting the names of the powerful men and not in releasing the names of these survivors?

Right.

Who were young and some of their family members husbands didn't even know that they were victims of Epstein.

And they released that to the public.

It's it was pretty, pretty horrible what the DOJ did to the survivors.

Yeah, we didn't make them make them feel shame or like or like not believed and that type of thing.

How do you deal with that?

Yeah, it wasn't easy, I'll tell you.

When I was standing behind Pam Bondi, I really just expected her as a woman to turn around and say she didn't.

That's here.

She was sorry, but she could have said, you know, I could have done something different.

I believe you or I'm here for you now or Todd Blanche is going to take over and he's going to do the right thing.

Anything.

But she wouldn't even look at us like her face didn't even turn.

And you don't know what it feels like as a survivor, because for me, it wasn't just about me.

I represent 1400 or more survivors, and I represent other survivors that are watching who want to come forward about their abuse or go after their abuser, and they felt like they couldn't in that moment, because even if someone that powerful like Pam Bondi could even acknowledge us, how are they going to acknowledge the people at home?

How do they, how are they going to come forward and do what's right?

How are we going to make change in our society if this woman can even look at us?

So and it was a moment where I couldn't even start.

I was like hyperventilating.

And I was like crying, you know?

And I'm so grateful for the representatives that that were standing up for us and fighting for us in that room.

But we didn't get anywhere that day for that.

Okay.

Okay.

So there's probably somebody out there watching right now who is a victim and they don't know where to turn, who to talk to, what to do, what do you say?

Well, I can say that you're not alone.

And you are worthy in this world of having whatever you want.

Don't feel like the abuse that happened to you is going to hold you back, you know, and that you can fight for this.

And we don't always get justice.

We don't mean the Epstein survivors.

We know we probably won't get the justice that we want, but you have a voice and you can find the right support system for you.

Find the right support system.

It'll start there.

Find people.

Therapists, start working through your trauma, start working through healing, maybe do some advocacy work and maybe fight for what's what.

You you know, what you went through in your truth.

And I think that's the most important thing to know, that you can take your power back, you know, because that's what the abuser wants you to be.

Silence.

And you just to be filled, full of shame.

And most of us are filled full of shame until we say no more.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I don't want that shame to anger, right?

Yeah.

Said right.

You know, you know, everyone knows which is how it goes.

I admire her so much.

And she said, oh, I'm not I'm going to waive my anonymity and I'm going to go after all these men who abused me while I was drugged by my husband, you know.

That's right.

You know.

And she opened up when she was brave.

She opened up a whole can of worms.

She wasn't the only one out there that was getting drugged and abused by their husbands or boyfriends.

Right.

So this this takes Epstein survivors coming forward.

Now it's opening up in our society.

And people are talking about this.

Someone like Giselle is coming forward.

Look what's happening in our society.

We need major change.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And it happens everywhere.

Yes, it happens everywhere from from the most powerful people in the world with Virginia Giuffre to your own husband.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so through this whole process, what has surprised you most?

Well, just learning.

Oh, what has surprised me most was during my podcast, I sat down with survivors of serial predators.

Like, Larry Nassar, survivors, gymnasts, Bill Cosby.

So many of them going back to the 70s.

Yeah.

So many of these serial predators, they all use very similar tactics.

And, and no matter if it was, your abuser wasn't through a, serial predator, they all use kind of the same tactics.

And you can you can learn from other people's stories.

Can you elaborate on some some stuff?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, some of the tactics, the grooming process always starts with some type of grooming of, well, love bombing, if it's, if it's a relationship, you know, you're always so beautiful.

You're the love of my life.

I've never met anyone like you.

Yeah, and I can help you get into a university.

You know, I see a lot of good things in you.

You know, you have a lot of potential.

You know, this was what worked on me, like, oh, I can help you.

You want to.

You want to be a model or you want to be the best reporter I know.

I know the best people that you can meet.

You know what I mean?

And then they they get you to believe them and support and mentor, mentor you while all they, they they mentor you with the always the nefarious reason to do criminal activity to you or traffic you.

You know what I mean?

So it usually comes I'm going to help you.

You know, it's always starts off in this in this way.

For most people.

How are you feeling today?

Oh, when I forgot to add, with a lot of abuse, the fear goes into you.

I'm going to hurt you.

I'm gonna hurt your family.

And I want people to be strong.

But that doesn't.

It doesn't mean because people say things to you.

It's just a way of getting you to do what they want you to do, and that you don't have to listen to.

People always reach out to someone and tell somebody, so where I'm at today is when I, when I do that podcast, when I sit down with these people, I just say I love.

I love that the fact that they are owning their stories and their healing because it helps me heal.

And so that's where I'm at today is the healing process that I'm going through is, you know, doing stuff like this and, you know, and speaking out and advocating for others, too.

By the time this airs, you will have spoken at Washburn University.

What's a message of hope for those who may not be able to attend?

What's the message of hope that you want to leave with people who have been in a similar situation, or who may be getting into the music business, or acting, or any kind of business modeling where they could encounter predators like this and let's call them what they are.

They're predators.

Right.

What advice would you give?

Well, being 20, 26, we have that on our side because in 2020, I didn't have TikTok.

Right?

I was coming back on that boat.

I couldn't go right on TikTok and say what had happened to me.

And a lot of youth do that today.

They are exposing what's happening to them.

The news are exposing it.

They're more open to exposing what's happening.

I think that right now, today, it's a really important time of, where you can be educated about these things.

And it's really important to have podcasts and have conversations like this and to educate people.

Because we didn't have that back in, in the 2000, you know, things would have been very differently.

Right?

Right.

If we had had that.

But there are more risks today because through social media, Roblox, Instagram predators are right on you, right?

Right.

You know, and you think you're talking to another four year old boy and a 60 year old man.

Yeah, this happens all the time.

So vetting it because we live in an age like this, you can go on Google and Google them to find out who they are.

They're offering you opportunities in the music industry.

Literally.

You can go on in and check them out, look at reviews, ask around before you get on that plane and go to Los Angeles, or you go to Las Vegas and wind up in a very bad situation, or get on that boat headed to the island.

Oh gosh.

Yeah.

Yeah, well I didn't, I didn't I was Google like, oh, you know like back then, you know.

Sure.

But even even after he was a convicted pedophile, he still had very important people supporting.

And you know, supporting him then so do your, do your, your work out there, you know, because you need to be safe.

Lisa has been such an honor to have you share your story with us on Inspire and share it with all of you.

And we hope that you have been as inspired by her as much as we have now.

As a reminder, you can watch this program again and watch.ktwu.org And if you are inspired to learn more about Lisa, we love her!

Find out what's coming up on future shows and get access to additional content.

Be sure to visit our website at ktwu.org/inspire Inspiring women, inspiring everyone to use your voice to create positive change in the world.

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Thank you for watching.

Inspire is sponsored by the Raymond C and Marguerite Gibson Foundation and by the estate of Ray and Anne Goldsmith.