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(upbeat music) - Hello, my name's Michelle Price.

Welcome to WCTE's newest public affairs show, "Interact."

Joining me today is Ryan Barnhart, Director of Workforce Development for the Highlands Economic Partnership, Jackie Vester, Early Post-Secondary Opportunity specialist for Putnam County Schools, Grant Maynord, who is a 2022 Cookeville High School graduate.

And Dr. Phil Oldham, who's the president of Tennessee Tech University.

We're gonna talk a little bit today about workforce and why we might have some shortages in workforce, what students might be looking at instead of college.

So join us.

A report came out last month that was showing that graduates from the classes of 2019 to 2021, their postsecondary attendance had decreased by 9% and dropped it down to in the 50 percentages.

Dr. Oldham, are you seeing anything that's showing that?

- No, at the university level we're actually seeing, last year was a fairly small freshman class.

This year's probably gonna be a near record in terms of incoming freshman at Tennessee Tech.

So I think we've learned a lot of things through the pandemic, not the least of which is that a lot of things are uncertain.

And I think that uncertainty is driving a lot of this change in behavior among high school graduates as well as some of the older members of the population in terms of work habits and desires, expectations.

And it may take a while for some of that to settle out, but we're seeing strong enrollments going forward at the university.

I think the community colleges are seeing a different story right now 'cause it's slightly different population of students that would opt for community college versus a four year institution, but hopefully we'll get back on track and those numbers will rebound, but it may take a little while to do that.

- So do you think those numbers were mostly due to COVID since that was in the height of the COVID pandemic?

- Well, I think that's been the biggest external disruptor for that type of behavior.

I think a lot of people are reevaluating what they wanna do with their lives now in love of what they've learned over the last couple of years.

And you can understand that.

It's very understandable, but it's gonna vary a lot.

You can't really paint every high school graduate the same way.

They have different ambitions and expectations and how they choose to get to where they wanna go, may vary a lot and it's changed.

So I think collectively all the different sectors that are sort of represented here, our challenge is to sort of try to understand what their desires and expectations are now and help them realize those over time.

- Are you seeing a lot of that at the high school level, Jackie?

- I would say since COVID we have started to see students are wanting to learn in a different way.

Once COVID hit, we had to go virtual, we didn't have another option.

And all of a sudden students started realizing that there were other ways that they could get instruction instead of sitting in a desk in a classroom.

And now they're for lack of a better term kind of demanding that.

It's like a supply and demand type situation.

And so they're wanting different ways to get instruction.

And we at the high school level and at the post-secondary level are having to look at how do we meet those demands.

With our dual enrollment students, we are still seeing students that want to be in a traditional setting, but then we have a significant group of students that want to take online classes.

They like the flexibility of an online class.

They like the option of being able to not necessarily work at their own pace, but work at the time that fits them best so they can make their own schedule to meet the deadlines that the professor has put forward.

- Is that leading to a lot of those students when they graduate wanting or desiring jobs that are remote based?

- I do think we have some students that enjoy that flexibility piece of education that leads into remote work.

And I think they like that scheduling flexibility piece.

- There are actually a lot of communities across the nation that are they're recruiting for remote workers.

So that has become such a major part of our workforce that they understand that's what a lot of people want.

I've been visiting different industries and hearing them tell me, my employees wanted to go remote.

We weren't able to offer that and they just left.

And they left the place they had been working at.

So it's a really interesting dynamic right now.

- Grant as a student who went through that, tell us a little bit about that experience.

Did you like working online?

- My personal experience with it, I loved it.

Like Ms. Vester said, it gives you an opportunity to work around your schedule.

Say if you have a job or you have issues within your family that you have to tend to, you can do the work at your best convenience, get it done and not be tired, not be worn out and you can do it as best as you can so that you can have better grades.

You can learn the stuff better, not just cram it down, pass the class and move on.

You can actually understand it and learn it at your convenience.

- Just heard a little bit about this, but is there any choice to you adding online PhD programs?

- I don't know about an online PhD right now.

And you may be right.

They don't tell me everything unfortunately.

Probably a good thing they don't tell me anything, but PhD's a research degree.

And so it's not that you couldn't do quite a bit of the coursework in an online format, but to do the balance of the research might be a little tricky, but it's not impossible.

So yeah, online is definitely part of our future going forward.

And I think what's sort of been highlighted here is that there's good things about it and there's things that people don't like so much about it.

Our students at Tech told us pretty exhaustively throughout the pandemic that they didn't want online classes exclusively.

They like the convenience part of it.

Occasionally, they like being able to pick up a course that otherwise they wouldn't be able to pick up, but students they want a traditional campus experience.

They wanna be on campus.

They wanna be surrounded by their fellow students.

They want to interact with faculty on a personal basis.

And there's learning that can happen in that format that you can't do online.

So online has its place, but it's not a silver bullet and it's not right for everybody, but it is part of the future and there's no question about it.

Getting to the remote work issue, I think what a lot of employers are seeing and of course aside from helping train the future workforce, we employ a lot of people.

We have about 1200 employees Tennessee Tech and we face the same challenges with individuals wanting to work remotely at times as well.

And some job functions that can work really well.

Others, it doesn't work very well.

I couldn't have a campus police force working remotely.

That would not be a good thing, okay?

And it changes the way you supervise work.

And so the supervisory role is much more complex and nuanced than if somebody's sitting next to you or even just down the hall from where you are.

And so I think employers are learning that it's not as simple as flipping a switch and doing remote versus in person.

There's a lot of things to think through and it can often change your entire business model.

And so there's a lot of changes that are sort of taking place.

And back to my earlier point, I think it's gonna take us a little while to sort of sort some of these things out to the best advantage of everybody, but it's a great opportunity.

- Speaking of the changes that are going on, Putnam County just keeps adding more of their CTE programs.

Can you tell us a little bit about what all is offered?

- So in Putnam County we have a wide variety of programs.

One of our focuses in Putnam County is personalizing learning for our students.

And we don't want to pigeonhole students into one set pathway.

We wanna make sure that they have many options available to them.

One of the ways that we do that is by working with all three post-secondary institutions that we have in this area, Tennessee Tech, Vol State, Cookeville and TCAT Livingston.

We actually have some TCAT programs such as welding here in the high schools, in all three high schools.

And Cookeville has TCAP programs.

Upperman has TCAT logistics and nursing.

Monterey has nursing, IT.

They also have an ag program there through TCAT Livingston.

And then we also have what we'll say are our traditional CTE programs, which is one of the programs that I taught in when I was in the classroom.

And those are gonna be our Putnam County teachers leading those programs for our students.

And instead of them being dual enrolled, they may be working on industry credentials, which that's where you show a specific level of work and that work then you sit for a test that gives you that certification and lets employers know that you have a specific set of skills when you're coming out of the program.

We're also looking at building some opportunities with Vol State to have certificate programs for our students so that when they graduate from high school, they could have a certificate in criminal justice as well.

From Vol State, a certificate in logistics, we're looking at that.

We also have opportunities for our students to graduate with associates degrees from Vol State.

With TCAT Livingston, many of our students cosmetology, for instance, they have several of their hours already accumulated working toward being able to sit for that licensure exam.

So we wanna make sure that we are hitting all aspects.

If we have a pathway let's say nursing, our goal is to get to a situation where we can sit with that student through proper counseling and say an advisement and say they want to be a CNA, then let's send them on a program with TCAT Livingston.

If they want to be an LPN, let's set them up on a program with Vol State.

If they wanna be an RN, let's take a look at setting them up with dual enrollment with Tennessee Tech.

We want to make sure that we're looking at student interests and setting them up in the right direction for that to work.

- So that's something that you have to look at depending on what level of degree they want?

Like you said, the CNA, LPN, RN, as to where you work with them.

- Yes, that's a direction we're going.

We would like to be in a situation where we can sit with a student and advise them.

And Putnam County have opportunities with all three of our industry partners and be able to align them with where they're going.

- You actually have Tennessee Tech professors teaching in the Putnam County Schools, don't you?

- We do.

So we have MOU, Memorandum of Understanding with Tennessee Tech and we bring professor Davis from the history department.

He comes here to Cookeville High School and teaches history 2010, history 2020 for our students.

They love him, they think he's fantastic.

We love working with him.

Students really enjoy that class.

And then on the flip side, we have some Putnam County teachers that have met the credentials that Tennessee Tech requires and so they teach those classes here on campus employed by us, but in service to Tennessee Tech.

And we have an extensive English program and we also have added communications 2025 with those classes.

And so it's been very good.

Our students really enjoy that program.

- Ryan, with all the graduates that we've got from the Putnam County Schools, the surrounding schools, Tennessee Tech, why are we seeing such a workforce shortage?

- Well, we're living in unique times right now.

I mean, I think a lot of people have seen that report that right now in our partnering counties, we have about 10,000 open positions.

And that's shocking to people when they hear that.

- [Michelle] It's very shocking.

- And yet our unemployment rates are at an all time low.

So there's some things going on there that like I think someone mentioned COVID has brought upon some of our older folks the opportunity just to be able to retire and they don't have to go out into the workforce anymore.

And so that's leaving a big shortage in our workforce and reaching our young people with these skills in the CTE program with the education that a Tennessee Tech offers is going to continue to be critical to filling these positions.

And again, we're a shock in all society.

We hear things and sometimes we tend to overreact and not understand that it'll fix itself as long as the proper things are in place, as long as the education system remains strong, as long as families are raising their children with a work ethic to go out into the workforce, as long as we have these strong partnerships in our community.

I feel confident that these positions will get filled.

- Okay, so do you see the workers changing their qualifications to meet the workforce or is the workforce changing their qualifications to meet the jobs?

- Yeah, and that's a great question, Michelle.

And it's one that as I go around and visit our industries, we've talked a lot about flexibility within the education system so far and employers are having to find more flexibility with hours with incentives.

Unfortunately right now we're at a time where our workforce is cannibalizing itself.

If someone gets a job here and they don't like it here, they're able to go out and have their choice of any other job that they'd like, particularly in the entry level positions.

So we're trying to do our best to combat that as we recruit new industries to Cookeville and Putnam County in our Highlands region, because we want them to understand that if they come here, they're going to have a strong workforce, but there are some flexibilities that they're gonna have to bring to the table with today's workforce.

- Grant, how did you decide what you were gonna do as a high school student?

- Well, it all started my freshman year.

I took an ag class and an automotive class.

For the longest I thought I was gonna go to TCAT and be a mechanic my whole life.

Working in shops throughout over the summer and just while I was in high school, I learned that it wears on your body and talking to people that have been mechanics their whole life, they said, the money's good.

If you enjoy it, it's a great job, but just I found myself tired, more out, and just not loving it the way I would.

So I had to reevaluate.

And when you go from thinking you're gonna do something for so long to not knowing what your plan is at all, it really puts you in position where you're scared and worried.

So I talked to different teachers, different advisors, counselors, and I decided that I wanted to go to college, become an engineer and that's the route that I set myself to go on.

I always put effort towards academics.

Focusing on automotive and stuff, I'd say that I probably lacked in some departments.

Didn't try as hard, but still kept good grades, a good GPA, but once I made that decision I wanted to go to college, I put the hammer down on trying my hardest on doing the work so I could have a better GPA, better grades, applying for lots of scholarships, doing things to make my resume stand out because there's thousands of kids that go to college.

You gotta make yourself look special because if you don't then you're not gonna get as much scholarship money.

You might not get accepted into a school.

And it's a lot more competitive versus just going into the workforce, which still you have to make yourself stand out, but there's not many people that are mechanics don't have industry certifications that these programs that the school pretty much gives you if you're just willing to try.

So it was amazing.

The people here at school that were able to help me get on the track, I needed to figure out what I needed to do to accomplish my goals even though my goals changed halfway through high school.

- Can I just add?

- Yes.

- I mean, I've never met Grant before, but you can tell there have been people that have invested in his life.

And I think that is critical piece of all of this.

Just by the way this young man talks with boldness and understanding of where he wants to go in life.

A lot of kids unfortunately don't have that.

And we need to make sure whether that's within families or the schools or churches, pastors.

We need to be investing in the lives of our young people so that we can see more like this young man right here.

- And giving them the soft skills.

- Exactly, because that's what I hear particularly with the entry level workforce, but not even necessarily just entry level jobs.

We're talking about people that have graduated from universities and it's just there's something missing there with those soft skills that we need to continue to try and hone in with with our young people to understand the value of looking someone in the eye, the value of a handshake.

That's what I love about the great shake.

- [Jackie] Great shake, yes.

- Yeah.

- We're teaching fourth graders to look us in the eye, shake our hands and ask us questions and learn what it is to have a conversation with adults.

- I know that twice a year you've been doing job fairs with the schools and tech does job fairs multiple times throughout the year.

What are you seeing that the employers are looking for?

Are the CTE certificates enough?

Do they want the degrees too?

What trends are you seeing?

- The problem we have now is that the career fairs are late in the game for most employers.

And I tell employers this all the time, if you're showing up to a career fair hoping to fill all your spots, you're in the bottom of the ninth inning and the game's almost over, okay?

So you've got to engage earlier and we're seeing more and more employers wanting to have a presence on campus to interact with freshman students or sophomores, internships, co-ops, ways that they can connect with them early on to give them a sense of what a career might be like in their organization and have a chance to develop a relationship because that's a lot of what younger people are looking for.

They're looking for a relationship, not just a job.

They want something that they can feel good about what they're doing, not just a paycheck.

And so we're seeing more and more employers being more thoughtful about how to engage and when to engage.

And it's probably a little different at the high school level, but to some extent it's the same.

And so employers are having to change how they go about this as well and what their expectations are.

- That's right.

So we recently had three job fairs at the high school level.

Now, it was late in the year.

Again, COVID has kind of knocked us for a loop and we're trying to readjust, readapt, but with so many employers looking just to fill positions, a lot of them being entry level, not necessarily with degree people, but just entry level positions, we decided to do some job fairs at the Putnam County High Schools in May for those students that weren't quite sure what they wanted to do and really the intention was for summer work.

The days when you just got a summer job, then you started school and focused on college, but we found that a lot of our employers, they're doing good things as Dr. Oldham said.

They're having to get creative.

They're raising the entry level wage.

They are working, they're more flexible, but we find that there's still a lot of positions out there to be filled even though we had I think over 20 students that were hired from these three job fairs.

So for entry level, I think that's pretty successful and certainly a great testament to those young people that are willing to get out there and work.

- Are a lot of the students that take the CTE classes going straight into jobs or are they proceeding on to either like TCAT or even Tennessee Tech?

'Cause I know some of the CTE classes include like your computer science, your engineering.

- Yes, it's definitely a mixture.

So you're going to have those programs like cosmetology that lend to enrolling in a TCAP Livingston or a school of cosmetology.

That's just where that training lies but for example, in our agriculture program, most agriculture jobs require a four year degree.

And of course, everyone thinks they're going to be a vet.

That doesn't always happen, but everyone thinks they're going to be a vet and as you know a vet requires a vet school PhD, 12 years of schooling.

So you have anything from a TCAT level to a PhD level that they're starting.

And what we started doing this year, we let every eighth grader come to the high school that they were going to and they toured the CTE programs.

And so I think they broke them into groups of 10.

And so those 10 students moved and they got to see each CTE classroom that way they could investigate what matched them best or what sparked some interests.

They're also working on doing a career interest surveys with students at that point just so we're trying to match them up.

We all know there could be changes along the way, Grant's a perfect example of that, but again, we want to make sure that what we're providing them, they're gonna carry with them and is going to be a valuable tool.

So we're identifying those career skills.

We also prepare all students to take the ACT that way they can fall back on having those ACT scores to enter into two or four year institutions.

We have all students take the ASVAB because you never know.

You might go along on your journey and then realize, oh, I would like a career in the military.

So you've taken that entrance piece there.

Just again, exposing our students to all possible pieces.

And we're gonna have students that want to leave high school directly and go directly into the workforce and we hope we're doing as much as possible through CTE and industry certifications to make them the best candidates.

Also with those soft skills with things like learning to complete a resume.

And then we're also preparing those students that want to be veterinarians and are gonna go on to that level of coursework.

- Thank you for joining us on this episode of "Interact" where we were talking about workforce development.

Thank you to Ryan Barnhart, Jackie Vester, Grant Maynord, and Dr. Phil Oldham for joining us.

And please talk about this more in your neighborhood, your communities, with your family.

We're gonna continue our conversation here.

Thank you.

(upbeat music) - [Announcer] This program was made possible by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you.

Thank you.

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