>>Good morning an welcome to Global Perspectives.

I'm David Dumke.

Today we are joined by Iraida Rodríguez-Negrón, who is the curator of the Ponc Museum of Art in Ponce, Puerto Rico, which is the largest art museum in the Caribbean.

Welcome to the show.

>>Thank you David.

It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

>>So I want to talk about the very interesting history of the museum and some of your, your collections.

But you have had for the last several years a very unique thing for a museum.

You've had your collection travel throughout the United States.

Tell us a little about that and why that is the case.

>>Yeah, definitely.

That is one of the efforts that we are undertaking to keep our collection accessible to the public, particularly after the 2020 earthquakes that happened off the coast of Puerto Rico off the southern coast.

Ponce is located in the southern coast of Puerto Rico.

So since then, January 2020, the main building of the museum has been closed and starting.

Obviously, that coincided with the pandemic.

So we started in 2022 to develop different collaborations with institutions in Puerto Rico and also in the United States to keep our collection accessible to the public.

Because of that, we establish a partnership with Museo de Art de Puerto Rico.

That's one of the examples, a museum in San Juan.

And we've been organizing exhibitions of our permanent collection there, but also traveling exhibitions.

And obviously, the public her in Florida, particularly around the Winter Park area, is aware of our nostalgia for my Island exhibition that was presented there.

But we also have now another traveling exhibition that is going throughout the US.

Eight different venues, an exhibition called The Sense of Beauty, which basically presents to the public, more precis image of what the collection is, including our European art collection.

We're very well know for our European art collection and also Puerto Rican art works as well.

>>So the museum itself is quit large, 4,500 different pieces, as I understand, interesting history and that it was it was founded by an industrialist who later became a governor of Puerto Rico, Luis Ferré, tell us how his founding of the museum has influenced your your collection?

>>Well, it's essential.

This is as I would say.

You just mentioned that he became later on, governor of Puerto Rico and obviously did a lot of contributions to the development of Puerto Rico.

But I think his most important legacy has definitely been the Museo de Arte de Ponc which he founded in the 1950s.

That was, something, although sometimes we've heard stories of ho and this is probably something that he said later on, that it was something that he wanted to do from a very young age.

He went to a trip with his first wife Lorenza Ramirez de Arellano in the 1950s to Europe and they basically decided then and there that they wanted to establish a museu for the people of Puerto Rico, and particularly to bring European works of art, works of Western art, to be able to have them accessibl for the people of Puerto Rico, many of them who are not going to be able to travel particularly during that time.

You know, that the economic problems in Puerto Rico in the middle of the 20th century, so soon after that, they came back, he started collecting.

And I think one of the things that makes him stand out, if you compare it to othe collectors who were instrumental in the establishment of museums, is the fact that from the beginning he started collecting for the museum.

It wasn't lik it was his personal collection that he donated to a museum, and he was really involved all the time.

With the development of the museum.

It was founded in 1959, initially in a rented house in the middle of Ponce, a colonial house that had nine rooms that became the museum.

But eventually that and, the collection grew so quickly, particularly if you think about in what we have now, 50% of what we the museum has now, particularly the European art collection, was acquired during that first decade of history of the museum.

So, they initially immediately noticed that they had to grow and establish a new building.

And they inaugurated in 1965, building that was designed by Edward Durrell Stone, who was a disciple of Frank Lloyd Wright, like Don Lewis had a very precise of the idea of what he wanted to to achieve with the museum.

And it opened in 1965.

And that's actually the building that we still have.

And then that it houses the main galleries of the museum and the building that was a little bit compromised after the earthquakes.

>>So the building itself is actually an architectural gem as well as a museum.

>>Yes.

Even, one price, as in 1967, right after it was created from the American Institute of Architects.

At some point, one there's this, Spanish architectural historian, Fernando Chukka, who called it th the Parthenon of the Caribbean because, of course, some of the design, it's inspired by classical architecture, but is a modernist building mid-century modernist building.

And it shows wha Ferré asked the, the architect to create a modernist building that was not as modern, but that would fi into the architecture of Ponce.

So that's why we have, like, those long balconies on the second floor.

And definitely he was instrumental and alway very involved, with everything the development of the collection and then obviously the creation of the museum, etc.. >>So tell us a little, little about the collection.

You, you obviously have a lot of, of Puerto Rican, art in there.

And I want to hear a little about that.

But you also have some, some interesting ones that, that, that Ferre picked out or at leas started to pick out initially.

So you have a very large Pre-Raphaelite collection.

>>Yes.

I think the essence of what he wanted to achieve with the collection, it' a very well stated in a speech that he presented in 196 when they did the groundbreaking for the building, where he mentioned that he wanted to make universal harmonies with Puerto Rican notes.

So from the beginning, you'll have the representation of European art.

And the fact is that we are very well known because of our European art collection but Puerto Rican art was also essential from the beginning.

And what you're saying specifically about the Pre-Raphaelite collection he was collecting at a moment when Pre-Raphaelite art, which is so popular now, wasn't popular, not even in England.

Not even the most important museums were intereste in acquired some of those works.

For instance, one of the most important, Pre-Raphaelite works that we have in our collection is by Edward Burne-Jones.

And that was like his last work.

It was at the Tate Museu in London for close to 20 years, and at the moment when the owners wanted to sell it, they didn't acquire it.

And then it came out at auction.

And that's when Luis was able to acquire it.

So that also shows the fact that at that moment, him and his advisors that we have to also make clear that this is a person who wa a visionary to create a museum.

But he also kne that he had to surround himself with peopl who knew what they were doing.

So he worked very closely with Julius Howard, who was a specialist of Dutch and Flemish art, Arianna Taylor who was and also a specialist of Spanish art.

And with their advice, they built up the collection.

And one of the maxims that they followed was to acquire works of art that were of quality, independent of their popularity in the art market.

And during that time as I was saying, Pre-Raphaelite art wasn't even being collected in England, less in the US.

There are some collections that did so that allowed him to acquire, in less than 15 years, a collection of over 50 works of, Pre-Raphaelite and Victorian art, including, obviously Flaming June, which is our most popula work of art in the collection.

>>So timing matters.

Obviously when you when you're purchasing, is this has this made the museum a destination fo for art historians and lovers?

>>Definitely, definitely.

And I think that's one of the things that stands out, even more now when we don't have the facilities availabl for the people to come and visit to see the works in the main galleries.

But even with that, we've received a lot of visitors, scholars coming in.

We accommodate them when they come in because obviously we have an administration building that's right behind the other building that was inaugurated in 2010.

So we are still working there.

But it's definitely a place, not only for the general public, but also of a lot of high interest for scholars and academics in the history of art.

>>So you mentioned obviously the the you have exhibits going traveling right now because the museum itself is closed and undergoing renovations.

Tell us what happened.

You had this earthquake before, right before the earthquake.

Of course, you had a series of hurricanes that devastated the island or overall.

So when you're doing the renovations that are taking so long, tell us what will happen when you eventually reopen.

What will the museum - how will the Museum change?

>>Yes.

I think it's a great opportunity to revisit how we present a collection to the people, to the audiences, of course, our masterpiece will be available to the public, but it might be give us an opportunity to maybe stress a little bit more about the importance of Puerto Rican art.

You were mentioning, alluded to our Puerto Rican art collection, which is interestingly not that well known, but as I was saying, it was very important from the beginning.

So I think looking forward t the reopening when it happens.

And that is something that we're definitely working from now.

It's not that we're going to wait until the reopens.

We may be able to highlight that a little bit more and present some more direct dialogs with our European art collection, and in fact, that is something that we are doing with the sensibility exhibition.

It's an exhibitio that is organized thematically, and it allows us the opportunity to establish, dialogs between works of art from different periods, different countries.

And it's worked out beautifully.

>>An where is this exhibit right now?

>>Okay, so this exhibition will travel to eight venues.

It started traveling actually in - in February of 2025, it bega at the Meadows Museum in Dallas.

Then it went to the Brigham Young University New Museum of Art in Provo, Utah.

It's currently at the Crocker Art Museum in Sacramento, California, and then after that, it will travel to Oklahoma City Museum of Art.

The Wadsworth Atheneum in Hartford, Connecticut, the Cincinnati Art Museum, the Mint at North Carolina.

And we're working on, venue in Florida.

Obviously important for us to have it accessible to the Puerto Rican diaspora and the public in general, in public in, in Florida.

So it's got it going across all the states.

And it's importan not only to keep it accessible, but for to have the opportunity to give people more knowledge of what has the history of the museum and the masterworks that we have there, and also the importanc of the museum for the community.

I think that's one of the things that you were mentioning, the hurricanes, thankfully, when, for instance, Maria happen, it didn't do anything to the museum on the contrary, the museum became like a safe haven for the community of Ponce.

And then obviously, the earthquakes did hit and affected the, the functioning of the museum.

But in 2022, we started workin and putting our, our collection out there.

And the community efforts continued all throughou that time and still happen now.

But obviously for us, it is a very important to achieve that reopening soon because if you think about it, we've had generations of children in Puerto Rico who haven't been able to go to the museum in the last six years, and if you talk to someone from Puerto Rico they're always going to remember that first time that they went to a museum, because it is something, an institution that is essential to the, well-being of our communities.

>>Yet at the same time, it's a unique opportunity because you have to do this for so long, send out exhibitions that you have put the Ponce brand out there.

>>Yes, yes.

>>More extensive.

>>Even more.

Now it's more well known.

Yeah, definitely.

>>You've mentioned the Puerto Rican art specifically.

Tell us a little about that collection.

Some of the artists that are featured in there.

>>Obviousl we have examples of our earliest Puerto Rican masters like José Campeche y Jordán actually the first painting that was acquire that became part of the museum was a work by Campeche that was acquired in 1953.

Francisco Oller y Cestero another, Jose Campeche is more 18th century, early 19th century.

And then we have Francisco Oller, who was, an artist who worked in the 19th century, early 20th, and that actually had the opportunity to travel, to travel not only to Spain, but he also went to Paris.

He was friends with the Impressionists.

Some of his works show them, and actually we have probably our two most important works by Francisco Oller in, long term loan at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston.

So this situation, of course, we've been making lemonades from lemons like like they say, has allowed us to establish these partnerships, like I was saying, and have this works by Francisco Oller, for instance, at the MFA in Boston.

We have great examples of art from early 20th century, which those were the works that were highlighted in the Nostalgia for My Island.

The realist painters of the early the first half of the 20th century, which highlighted the theme of what was being Puerto Rican at that moment, particularly after the change of governmen between Spain and then the US.

The generation of the 1950s La Generación de los Cincuenta, with the Masters than actually had the opportunity to travel and be educated and among them and then come back to Puerto Rico and, and also have like a more socialist, responsibilit that you can see in their works and maybe more critical o what was happening at that time.

And among them, you have Rafael Tufio was another very important artist of the period and then all the way up to the, to contemporary art like modernist in the 60s and 70s.

And then our last tw acquisitions were art of works that obviously don't have the resources to make many acquisitions at this very moment.

Obviously, everything is focused on the, reopening, but we've had the fortune to be able, with support from donors, to be able to acquire some works by Enoc Pérez and also by Rogelio Baez Vega who are two very important contemporary artists in Puerto Rico at the moment.

>>So, I've hear you talk about the Puerto Rican art collection before, and you also have mentioned how Puerto Rican, the history of the times and the economics and how the island change went through an industrialization process and a lot of displacement of people coming off.

>>Yes.

>>From from the farms into the into the cities.

How was that reflected in the artwor that you - that's in the museum?

>>Yeah.

You definitely see in, particularl in that transition in the 1950s, as I was saying like the Nostalgia for My Island focused more on what happened in the first half of the 20th century, which probably presented a more idealized version of what was the life in Puerto Rico.

The life in the country.

But then, as that migration came into the city, those artists, particularly those in the la generació del cincuenta started depicting, the realities of the people in Puerto Rico, particularly images of the slums that were being established in the surrounding area in, in San Juan, in the capital city and probably presented in any not probably definitely presenting it in a more realistic manner.

And in a critical of wha was happening during that time.

And that is something that you can see that happen in other, cities around the world when industrialism comes in and displaces people, and people try to go to the cities to find opportunities that they're eventually not found.

So that is something that you can trace in other places then that definitely happened in Puerto Rico, particularly, around the, the middle of the century.

>>Has it became more awareness globally of Puerto Rican art specifically.

I mean, you had this exhibit traveling, but obviously the artists were very active.

They had big networks.

But you had mentioned earlier in the interview how some of these weren't as well known.

>>Yeah.

And I think particularly in the collection, like the, the availability of those works in our collection, that is something that I that found out that working at the museum surprised me that maybe it's not as well known, but it should be right there in the great masters of Puerto Rican art.

I think in general, there has been this very strong interest in, cultural, rejection of Puerto Rican art during the last few decades, like last decade, if you may say, institutions in the United States acquiring works of art, for instance, the Metropolitan Museum of Art acquired two Campeche paintings very recently.

So they're actually going towards that focus to be able to to grow those aspects of their collection as well.

And we obviously are lucky that we have them already in our collection.

But there's definitely a more mainstream interest in Puerto Rican art.

>>So, so just just to to shif focus a little and, away from, from the, the collection itself into kind of the long term plans, the art scene in Puerto Rico, the island, has a lot of financial troubles.

Has the art section suffered along with the economy?

>>Obviously.

That's definitely a byproduct of it.

But I guess that even, shows the, resilience.

And I don't want to, focus that much on that word.

But yes, it has continued.

And I think in difficult times, people reach out to those things like the, the cultural production the things that heal the spirit.

And that was something that Luis, going back to our founder, was very clea about how art was instrumental in everyday life and how it was a way, a tool for people to feel better, to enrich the spirit.

Actually, that exhibition that I was mentioning, the sense of beauty, it was inspired.

And the title comes from that speech that I mentioned earlier that he presented in 1964, and it he basically describes the sense of beauty and the importance of art in everyday life, and how that would affect the development of the the island and in all aspects.

So, it is interesting to see that even in moments when-- >>The times are good, times are bad but people still are valuing-- >>People, and even more, I think even more they these are the moments when usually people reach ou more to towards what they are.

What, in this case, what it means to be Puerto Rican.

If we're talking about the art scene and you see that, represented in different aspects of the cultural production during this time.

>>So what are some of your more famous works of that, and what are and are those works that are considered the most famous, are they famous because the art historians and critics value them, or they have the best reaction towards among the people?

>>Should we talk about in general?

>>In general.

>>Because I think one of the most interesting stories, and definitely something that everyone recognizes is I alluded earlier to Flaming June, which is- >>I was going to ask you about.

>>Iconic work.

>>Frederic Lord Leighton's-- >>By Frederic Leighton.

And I think I always say that it is service, like a psychological study, because just to understan the appeal that that work of art has for the general public, if we go back to the origin of the work, it was one of the last submissions that the artis presented to the Royal Academy.

He was actually the presiden of the Royal Academy in London.

And he he created this work in 1895.

Presented it was successful.

It was acquired by the owner of an art magazine during that time.

And one of the things that he did shortly after the artist died, because the artist died in 1896, was create 500,000 reproductions of the work.

So even from the beginning it was very recognized the the reproduction quality of the work.

And that definitely has contributed to her popularity all throughout the the history of the work.

But it's a very interesting because the, the work of art, it exchanged hands a few times and then in the 1930s it disappeared.

And it wasn't until the 1960s that it came back, miraculously appeared behind the panel inside, a house that was being remodeled in London.

Of course, these are stories that we take them with a grain of salt.

It's the legend around, it happens a lot-- >>Pretty compelling story though.

>>Exactly.

Supposedly this worker found it and took it to the closest framing sho and sold it for 50 pounds, and and eventually they exchanged hands again.

And until he came to the gallery of this person called Jeremy Mars, who was very intereste in Pre-Raphaelite and Victorian art at the moment, as I was saying before, that it was in popular, and so he restored it.

At that point, the work, had lost its original frame because for someone the frame was more important than the painting, so they sold the frame.

So when he came to the museum in 1963, after firs our one of our advisors Annette Taylor found it in a gallery and immediately recognized something that would definitely appeal to Ferre, Ferre came, acquired it.

And he came into the museum with this, a very basic, commercial frame and, an but we knew from the beginning.

Well, I wasn't even alive, but they knew that it had a more special frame because the artist would always design the frames where he presented the paintings.

And it wasn't until the 1990s that they were able to see a picture of that first group of paintings that he submitted to that the last group of paintings, sorry, that he submitted to the Academy in 1985.

In 1895, sorry, they saw the original frame and they were able to do a replica of the frame.

So what goes with around travel around with art is the replica and exact replica created by the same company that did the original one.

But going back to the mystique of Faming June, obviously it is something that appeals to the public, the beauty of the painting, but also it's this whole story that's being created around the painting, something very similar to what happened with Mona Lisa right when it was stole in the early 20th century, etc.. And it doesn't take away from the actual merit of the work, but has definitely influence the popularity of the painting.

>>What are what are some of your other popular paintings?

We have also an amazing-- >>I know I'm asking when you have a collection of 4,500, but just to pick out a few-- >>The highlights.

The highlights.

Actually, we also have an amazing collection of Baroque art, which the same way in, in the middle of the 20th century, maybe the institutions were more focused in more modern art, maybe the Impressionists.

So they were able to acquire a significant amount of works from the 17th century.

Spanish works are, Spanish art collection includes works by Bartolomé Esteban Moreno, Francisco Soprano.

Although The Souvenir was acquired later on.

But it shows you the interest in that area Italian Baroqu art as well Dutch and Flemish, which is particularly important because we we talke previously about Julia's health, who was a specialist in that area.

So obviously he fostered then among those we have works by Peter Paul Rubens.

So these are like great masters of European art.

So that's an aspect of our collection that we highlight, obviously, the Pre-Raphaelite and Victorian works, which not only limited themselves to Frederick Leighton, then Burne-Jones, like I mentioned earlier, but we have examples by, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, by John Everett Millais, the founders of the movement during the the middle of the 19th century.

And of course, like a portrait in our collection, we also have a very important collection of Latin American art, particularly from the middle of the 20th century.

It's small, but it's important as well.

So that is something that we're looking forward to showcase as well when we have the opportunity to reopen.

I think, one of the things that I've enjoyed so much, working at the museum and even traveling and seeing other collections is just recognizing the the amazing collection that we have in Puerto Rico for the people of Puerto Rico and for everyone who comes to see very varied all the way from the middle.

Well, we have some historic items as well, but if we talk about the bulk of the collection from the middle, from the Middle Ages up to the 21st century.

So you can tell the history, particularl the history of Puerto Rican art with the work that we have in the collection.

And that is something you don't find any like in every museum.

So it's definitely a privilege to work with that collection.

>>So unfortunately, we're running out of time.

I just have one more question.

And that is, you know, you as current curator, you, of course, helped put together the exhibits and picked the specific works for them.

Has it been fun for you to kind of have different themes to put together for?

>>Of course, the course and I think some of my favorite work are in that selection as well.

But yeah, that it's part of, and the work that we do as curators when we not only decide how we're going to install the permanent collection of the museum, bu also organize this exhibitions, because there's, very well thought out curatorial script that you were trying to present to the public.

It's not basically just working.

Choosing works frivolously.

So that's definitely one of the aspects of the work that I enjoy the most.

And the research and being able to present that to the public as well.

It's.

>>Iraida Rodríguez-Negrón thank you so much for joining us today and telling us a little about the, Ponce Museum of Art and good luck on the reopening in 2028.

>>My pleasure.

Thank you so much for inviting us.

>>And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again next week on another episode of Global Perspectives.