>> Gene: LAST YEAR, WE HAD THE HEAD OF THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT IN THE STUDIO WHEN THE RIVER WAS ABOUT TO DRY AND FARMERS WERE FACING SHORTAGES.

THIS YEAR, WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SITUATION RIGHT NOW ON THE RIO GRANDE.

OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH JASON CASUGA ABOUT WHAT FARMERS CAN EXPECT THIS SUMMER, HOW THE VALLEY'S INFRASTRUCTURE IS HOLDING UP, AND HOW A CHANGING CLIMATE MAKES DRY YEARS AND WET YEARS ALIKE MORE CHALLENGING.

>> Laura: JASON CASUGA, THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> Casuga: I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE, LAURA, THANK YOU.

>> Laura: SO WE WERE HERE ALMOST EXACTLY THIS TIME LAST YEAR.

THERE WERE FARMERS FACING SHORTAGES, WE WERE LOOKING AT AN IMPENDING DRY RIVER.

WHAT'S THE SITUATION THIS YEAR?

>> Casuga: WELL, LAURA, WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES.

I THINK ANYBODY IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY AND IN ALBUQUERQUE CAN TAKE A STROLL TO THE RIVER AND JUST SEE THAT WE'RE, IN MANY INSTANCES, BURSTING AT THE SEAMS.

IT'S JUST -- I THINK IT SPEAKS TO THE CRAZY PATTERNS THAT WE SEE, ONE EXTREME TO ANOTHER.

BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, LAST YEAR WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW DRY IT WAS GOING TO BE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF ALBUQUERQUE DRYING, SECTIONS OF THE RIVER, AND THAT HAPPENED, AND NOW I THINK WE HAVE AN OUTLOOK WHERE LARGE SECTIONS OF THE RIVER WON'T DRY THIS YEAR, CERTAINLY NOT ALBUQUERQUE, AND IN SOME INSTANCES IN VALENCIA COUNTY, WE'RE WORKING TIRELESSLY TO KEEP SPOIL BANK LEVEES FROM BREACHING.

SO IT IS A VERY DIFFERENT WATER YEAR FROM 2022.

>> Laura: SO ARE WE AT THE END OF SNOW MELT, KIND OF?

>> Casuga: OH, NO.

WHAT WE CAN SEE IS THAT WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT WATER IN THE RIVER AND OVERBANKING UP UNTIL PROBABLY EARLY JULY.

I EXPECT MOST OF JUNE, WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO SEE THOSE CONDITIONS.

AND EVEN WHEN WE GET INTO EARLY JULY, THE MRGC WILL STILL HAVE ITS SUPPLEMENTAL WATER FROM THE SAN JUAN-CHAMA WATER PROJECT.

SO I REALLY DO EXPECT FARMERS WILL HAVE A LOT MORE SURETY ON WHAT THE SEASON WILL LOOK LIKE.

OBVIOUSLY IF WE GET INTO JULY AND AUGUST AND IT DOESN'T START RAINING, THERE CAN BE SOME BACK-END PRESSURE, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A LOT MORE CONFIDENCE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PLENTY OF WATER TO GET THROUGH THE SEASON.

AND THERE MAY BE SOME SCARCITY TOWARDS THE END, BUT IF IT RAINS, WE'LL PROBABLY BE FLUSH WITH WATER MOST OF THE YEAR.

>> Laura: SO THE NRCS, WHICH PUTS OUT THEIR FORECAST, THEY MENTIONED THINGS ARE LOOKING GREAT RIGHT NOW, BUT LOW INITIAL STORAGE COMBINED WITH PREDICTIONS FOR A HOT SUMMER COULD MAKE FOR A DIFFICULT END OF SEASON FOR FARMERS WHO MAY END UP MOSTLY DEPENDENT ON MONSOONAL PRECIPITATION.

WHAT DOES THE DISTRICT RECOMMEND FOR FARMERS WHO ARE, LIKE, FLUSH WITH WATER NOW AND MAYBE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT LATE IN THE SEASON?

>> Casuga: WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS -- I'LL OFTEN GET QUESTIONS.

"JASON" -- THEY'LL ASK ME A CRYSTAL BALL QUESTION -- "WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE LIKE?"

AND I REALLY TRY TO STAY OUT OF TELLING FARMERS HOW TO FARM.

IN SOME INSTANCES, I HAVE SOME FARMERS THAT GET FRUSTRATED WHEN I SHARE WEATHER DATA, BECAUSE THAT CAN BE A PESSIMISTIC VIEW, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE DON'T EXACTLY KNOW HOW IT WILL TURN OUT.

BUT WHAT I THINK THAT WE DO IS WE TAKE THE BEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE, WE SHOW IT AT EVERY BOARD MEETING.

HEY, THIS IS WHAT'S COMING OUT FOR WEATHER FORECAST, A PROBABILITY OF PRESENTATION, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.

AND THEN WE ALWAYS END ON WHAT WATER WE HAVE, AND THE DISTRICT WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO ROUTE IT EFFICIENTLY TO MEET ALL OF THE MISSIONS THAT WE HAVE, AND IRRIGATION BEING A PROMINENT ONE OF THOSE MISSIONS.

AND I THINK THAT'S ALL WE CAN REALISTICALLY TELL FARMERS.

RIGHT NOW, IF WE HAD MORE STORAGE, I THINK WE COULD PROVIDE MORE RELIABILITY AND PROJECT MORE.

BUT THE ONLY STORAGE THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE IS OUR SUPPLEMENTAL WATER THAT WE GET FROM THE SAN JUAN-CHAMA WATER PROJECT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, I THINK, AROUND 20,500-ACRE FEET, SO THAT'S NOT AN INCONSEQUENTIAL AMOUNT.

SO I THINK THERE'S REASON TO HOPE THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO, WITH THAT STORAGE, WE MAY BE ABLE TO BRIDGE THAT LATE SEASON GAP.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S WHETHER THE MONSOONS WILL SHOW UP, IT'S JUST TO WHAT DEGREE.

WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME RAIN LIKELY, IT'S JUST ARE WE GOING TO GET IT LIKE WE SAW IT LAST YEAR, WHICH WE HAD SIGNIFICANT RAIN.

SO IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO PREDICT, AND IN MANY INSTANCES I PROBABLY GET MYSELF INTO TROUBLE WHEN I TRY TO OVERPREDICT IT.

AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE GENERAL TACT I USE WHEN I TALK TO THE FARMING COMMUNITY.

>> Laura: RIGHT NOW, IT SEEMS TO ME THE RIVER IS FULL, THE DITCHES ARE FULL, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, LOTS OF FIELDS ARE FULL, BUT PEOPLE SEE WATER FLOWING PAST SOMETIMES AND THINK, THAT WATER IS GOING TO TEXAS AND IT SHOULD STAY HERE.

CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT IS HAPPENING WHEN WE SEE WATER GOING PAST?

>> Casuga: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MISUNDERSTANDING.

SO NEW MEXICO IS PART OF A WATER SHARING AGREEMENT WITH COLORADO, TEXAS, AND NEW MEXICO, OBVIOUSLY NEW MEXICO BEING IN THE MIDDLE, COLORADO IS ABOVE US, TEXAS IS BELOW US.

AND THAT AGREEMENT WAS LONG BEFORE OUR TIME, BUT IT OUTLINED THE PARAMETERS BY WHICH USERS ALONG THE RIO GRANDE WOULD RECOGNIZE HISTORICAL USE AND THEN SHARE WATER.

AND SO THE WATER THAT WE SEE GOING BY US IS THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT SHOULD BE GETTING, AND HOPEFULLY GETTING TO ELEPHANT BUTTE TO BE COUNTED TOWARDS NEW MEXICO'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE COMPACT.

IT'S FRUSTRATING AT TIMES FOR ME TO HEAR, I THINK, MIDDLE VALLEY CONSTITUENTS TALK ABOUT, NO, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T COMPLY WITH THE COMPACT, OR NO, THIS MAKES US ANGRY, BECAUSE WE AS NEW MEXICANS BENEFIT FROM COLORADO WHO STRICTLY ENFORCES WATER USE UP THERE.

SO THAT COMPACT WATER THAT IS SUPPOSED TO COME INTO NEW MEXICO COMES OUT OF COLORADO AND COMES TO NEW MEXICO, SO WE AS NEW MEXICANS BENEFIT FROM A STRICT ENFORCEMENT OF THE COMPACT.

AND I THINK IT'S RIGHT, AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE NEAR AS MUCH WATER AS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IF THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, FOR US TO THEN CONSIDER THE AGREEMENTS THAT OUR STATE MADE IN ENSURING WATER GOES DOWN AND MEETS NEW MEXICO'S COMPACT REQUIREMENTS.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, MANY FOLKS SAY, HEY, THIS IS TEXAS.

BUT THE MIDDLE VALLEY'S REQUIREMENT FOR THE COMPACT IS ELEPHANT BUTTE.

DOES SOME OF THAT WATER GO TO TEXAS?

ABSOLUTELY, IT DOES.

BUT THE FIRST USERS OF WATER THAT COMES OUT OF ELEPHANT BUTTE ARE NEW MEXICANS.

IT'S DONA ANA COUNTY, IT'S HATCH, IT'S THAT MESILLA AREA.

AND DOES A PORTION OF THAT WATER HAVE TO MAKE IT TO TEXAS?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THERE ARE NEW MEXICANS DOWNSTREAM OF ELEPHANT BUTTE AND NORTH OF THE TEXAS-NEW MEXICO STATE LINE THAT RELY ON THAT WATER, AS WELL.

AND WE AS THE MIDDLE VALLEY IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK THE HIGHEST ORDER OF WATER MANAGEMENT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT I CAN USE AND THAT THE STATE CAN USE COMES WITH BEING IN COMPACT COMPLIANCE, AND THAT'S THE ABILITY TO STORE WATER IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

SO NOT ONLY ARE WE MEETING OUR OBLIGATION TO THE COMPACT AND SUPPLYING WATER TO DOWNSTREAM NEW MEXICANS AND TEXAS, BUT IT ALSO GIVES US WATER MANAGERS FLEXIBILITY, BECAUSE WE CAN STORE WATER IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO WHEN WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPACT.

AND SO I RECOGNIZE THAT'S FRUSTRATING, BUT IT IS THE AGREEMENT AND THE LAW OF THE LAND, AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTANDS THE DEGREE TO WHICH THE COMPACT CAN HURT US IF WE DON'T COMPLY.

BUT THEN ALSO, THE DEGREE THAT THE COMPACT HELPS US WHEN WE DO TO BE ABLE TO STORE WATER.

>> Laura: HOW, WITH THESE HIGH FLOWS AND THE DITCHES FULL, THE CANALS FULL, HOW IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE HOLDING UP IN THE DISTRICT?

>> Casuga: SO THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS ANOTHER GROWING CONCERN AND COMPLICATED CONVERSATION.

THE DISTRICT, WE'RE COMING UP ON OUR 100 YEAR ANNIVERSARY.

WE'RE IN THE STAGES RIGHT NOW OF PREPPING A CELEBRATION OF THE 100 YEARS OF THE CONSERVANCY ACT BEING PASSED, AND THEN LOOKING AT GETTING TOGETHER AND HONORING THE 100 YEARS THAT THE DISTRICT HAS EXISTED IN 2025.

SO THE CONSERVANCY ACT WAS PASSED IN 1923, THE DISTRICT CAME INTO EXISTENCE IN '25.

SO A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE IS OLD.

SOME OF THAT IS APPROACHING 100 YEARS OLD, AND SOME OF IT IS APPROACHING 50 YEARS OLD BECAUSE IT WAS REHABILITATED.

I ACTUALLY -- AND I PUT THIS IN A PAPER THAT WE PUBLISHED.

I THINK THE DIFFICULTY WITH WATER HAS ALWAYS BEEN AROUND, AND NEW MEXICO HAS FACED THAT.

IT'S NOTHING NEW.

PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE COLORADO RIVER NOW AND LOOKING AT THE SOUTHWEST, BUT NEW MEXICO HAS ALWAYS DEALT WITH A FLASHY WATER SYSTEM, RIGHT.

BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS SOME OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE IS GETTING OLDER.

EVEN WHENEVER I TRY, AND EVEN WHEN THE DISTRICT HAS TRIED TO PUSH LARGE AMOUNTS OF WATER THROUGH SOME OF THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, IT'S BREAKING.

WE SEE THAT EVIDENCED BY THE CORRALES SIPHON.

WE, AS A COMMUNITY -- THIS USED TO HISTORICALLY BE AGRICULTURAL LAND, BUT NOW WE HAVE URBANIZING COMMUNITIES IN AND WITH, AND THAT COMES WITH ROADWAYS AND ROADWAY CROSSINGS.

IN VALENCIA COUNTY ALONE, I THINK WE'VE HAD FIVE PIECES OF ROADWAY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S NOT EVEN THE MRGCD'S TO MAINTAIN, IT'S OTHER ENTITIES, BUT THOSE HAVE COLLAPSED, WHICH THEN WE HAVE TO TURN OUR CANALS DOWN SO THEY CAN BE FIXED, AND THAT HURTS WATER DELIVERY.

SO INFRASTRUCTURE IS A HUGE CONVERSATION AND THE DISTRICT NEEDS TO BE INVESTING IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE NEED TO BE WORKING WITH OUR PARTNERS WHO HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE WITHIN MRGC RIGHT-OF-WAY TO INVEST IN THAT, TOO, BECAUSE AGING INFRASTRUCTURE, JUST LIKE ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, IS BECOMING A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE FOR US.

>> Laura: SO SCIENTISTS FOR A LONG TIME TALKED ABOUT, IN OUR WARMING WORLD WE ALSO SEE EXTREMES, AND SO WE WILL HAVE A VERY LONG DRY SPELL, FOR INSTANCE, AND THEN CAN SEE EARLY QUICK RUNOFF OF SNOW MELT, OR BIG STORMS IN THE SUMMER.

AS THE DISTRICT AGES, BUT AS WE UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT'S COMING, ARE THERE WAYS THAT THE DISTRICT IS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SORT OF AT SCALE CHANGES TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO DEAL WITH THAT WARMING WORLD AND THOSE EXTREMES?

>> Casuga: YEAH, AND THAT IS, I THINK, ANOTHER IMPORTANT QUESTION, BECAUSE HOW DO WE GET OUR WATER?

THIS SYSTEM WAS HISTORICALLY BUILT ON MAXIMIZING WATER THAT IS PRODUCED IN THE MOUNTAINS AND THEN FLOWS DOWN AND HITS THE RIVER, AND TO A DEGREE, WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE THAT WAY, BUT WE'RE ALSO GETTING AND HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO GET MORE AMOUNT OF OUR WATER FROM RAIN EVENTS.

IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR, AND I KNOW THE PUBLIC IS, ABOUT THE WAY NEW MEXICO GETS RAIN EVENTS, IT'S NOT THE SEATTLE KIND OF RAIN EVENT WHERE IT JUST KIND OF COMES IN AND HANGS OUT AND KIND OF GRADUALLY GIVES IT TO YOU, AND YOU JUST END UP WITH QUITE A BIT OF WATER BY THE END OF YEAR.

NO, NEW MEXICO COMES IN AND WE GET THESE STORM EVENTS THAT WILL LAST 45 MINUTES AND DROP THREE AND A HALF INCHES, AND YOU EITHER HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE TO DEAL WITH THAT AND ROUTE IT TO THE RIVER, OR YOU GET FLOODED BY IT.

AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT, ESPECIALLY IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES.

OBVIOUSLY NOT AS MUCH IN BERNALILLO COUNTY, BECAUSE BERNALILLO COUNTY HAS INVESTED IN FLOOD CONTROL.

YOU HAVE AN AMAFCA HERE, AND IN A PORTION OF SANDOVAL COUNTY YOU HAVE SSCAFCA, WHICH ARE THE ARROYO FLOOD CONTROL AUTHORITIES.

SO WE DO A LOT OF PARTNERSHIPPING WITH THOSE ENTITIES, AND I THINK IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES, THE DISTRICT IS HAVING TO EXPLORE THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S BEING DAMAGED BY THESE STORMS.

AND THERE'S A QUESTION OUT THERE, AND I THINK A LEGAL QUESTION IS BEING ASKED BY THE WAY IN WHICH THE DISTRICT IS LITIGATED RIGHT NOW, IS OUR INFRASTRUCTURE MEANT FOR THESE MONSOONAL RAIN EVENTS AND SHOULD IT BE.

AND THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, AND I THINK I CAN SEE IT FROM BOTH SIDES.

BUT ONE OF THE CORE MISSIONS OF THE DISTRICT IS TO MOVE IRRIGATION WATER, AND SO I THINK THE BEST ROUTE FORWARD IS THERE ARE ENTITIES THAT COME IN AND WE PARTNER WITH THEM TO CREATE FLOOD CONTROL FACILITIES, AND THEN THE DISTRICT BECOMES THE WAY IN WHICH THOSE FLOOD CONTROL FACILITIES ARE DRAINED.

AND I THINK YOU SEE A MODEL OF THAT IN THE MIDDLE VALLEY ALREADY, AGAIN, IN BOTH OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE, BERNALILLO COUNTY, AMAFCA AND SSCAFCA.

BUT ABSOLUTELY, I THINK OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES AND EVEN OUR URBAN COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO INVEST MORE IN THOSE AND MAXIMIZE EVERY DROP THAT WE GET, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE HAD A WATER SEASON WHERE WE SEE THE RIVER LIKE THIS, ESPECIALLY THE LENGTH OF TIME THIS HAS LASTED.

I THINK IN '19, WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD SNOW YEAR, BUT IT CAME DOWN SO FAST.

I'VE BEEN STRUCK BY THE COOLNESS OF OUR SPRING AND HOW LONG THE WATER IS LASTING.

ONE, IT'S BEEN REALLY ENJOYABLE, BUT TWO, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN NEXT YEAR.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO BE INVESTING IN ALL THOSE AREAS, BOTH ON MRGC INFRASTRUCTURE AND STORM WATER INFRASTRUCTURE, BECAUSE WHEN WE GET MOISTURE AND WHEN WE GET WATER, I THINK WE NEED TO HOPEFULLY HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE TO MANAGE IT THE BEST THAT WE CAN.

AND THEN HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BE ENOUGH WATER, BUT IN SOME INSTANCES THAT STILL MAY NOT BE ENOUGH WATER AND USERS MAY GO WITHOUT OR HAVE TO USE LESS.

>> Laura: WELL, THANK YOU, JASON.

I SURE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TODAY.

>> Casuga: AWESOME.

THANK YOU.