THE OLD AGE QUESTION •.

SHOULD PRESIDENT BIDEN STEP ASIDE.

HOW MANY STOPS • ARE NEW YORK'S POLICE OVER POLICING?

AND TOO MANY PRISONS?

GOVERNOR HOCHUL WANTS TO CLOSE DOWN 5 MORE.

STAY TUNED.

IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

THE OLD AGE QUESTION •.

SHOULD PRESIDENT BIDEN STEP ASIDE.

HOW MANY STOPS • ARE NEW YORK'S POLICE OVER POLICING?

AND TOO MANY PRISONS?

GOVERNOR HOCHUL WANTS TO CLOSE DOWN 5 MORE.

STAY TUNED.

IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED BY THIS WEEK'S PANEL, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY, AND TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT HUR'S REFERENCE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN AS AN "ELDERLY MAN WITH A POOR MEMORY" HAS SHINED A SPOTLIGHT ON BIDEN'S MENTAL ACUITY AND FITNESS FOR OFFICE.

THE WHITE HOUSE IS PUSHING BACK HARD, AND HIS DEMOCRATIC ALLIES SAY HE'S MORE THAN ABLE TO SERVE ANOTHER TERM.

SHOULD BIDEN EMULATE LBJ AND MAKE A LATE DECISION NOT TO RUN?

>> ACTUALLY I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD CREATE, FOR THE DEMOCRATS, SOME OF THE SAME CHAOS THAT WE SAW, AT LEAST INITIALLY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN TERMS OF THEIR POTENTIAL NOMINEE AND THE FIGHT TO BE THAT NOMINEE.

BUT CERTAINLY HE NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF HIS AGE.

HE SHOULDN'T RUN FROM IT AS AN ARTICLE, I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE BULWARK HAD MENTIONED.

DON'T RUN FROM IT.

ADDRESS IT.

I LIKED WHAT THE ARTICLE SAID IN TERMS OF THE FACT, FIRST OF ALL, OWN YOUR AGE.

BUT ALSO REMIND PEOPLE THAT WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.

YOU KNOW, AND WHAT CAME TO MIND IMMEDIATELY WAS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT I'M SURE WE HAVE ALL HEARD FROM OUR STUDENTS.

THEY MAKE A MISTAKE, THEY IMMEDIATELY SAY MY BAD AND KEEP ON GOING.

IN A SENSE, THAT'S WHAT BIDEN NEEDS TO DO.

HE NEEDS TO KEEP ON GOING AND REMIND PEOPLE THAT EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES.

THINK ABOUT IT, YOU ARE THE LEADER IN A SENSE OF THE FREE WORLD.

YOU'VE GOT A GREAT DEAL ON YOUR MIND.

REMIND PENAL OF THAT BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO.

>> THERE ARE MISTAKES AND THEN THERE ARE MISTAKES, RIGHT?

IF YOU KEEP DOING IT, AT SOME POINT, MY BAD BECOMES, THIS IS A PROBLEM.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

AND THAT'S VERY TRUE.

AND THAT'S, TO ME, THE BIGGER PART OF IT IS, ARE THE CONTINUING MISTAKES BECAUSE OF HIS AGE?

ARE THEY BECAUSE HE IS OVERWHELMED?

YOU KNOW, AND THE SENSE THAT, OKAY, HOW WILL YOU DO IF YOU ARE NOT SORT OF PRESET IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PRESS CONFERENCE THAT'S BEEN VERY CAREFULLY SET UP OR IT'S AN INTERVIEW THAT'S BEEN VERY CAREFULLY SET UP.

AND THAT'S USUALLY WHERE HE HAS MADE HIS MISTAKES AND THAT'S PART OF THE REASON HE NEEDS TO BE PREPARED TO, IF HE MAKES A MISTAKE IN THAT SITUATION, HE CAN IMMEDIATELY RESPOND TO IT.

BUT THE REALITY IS, FOR MOST SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW, HE HAS AN EXTENSIVE STAFF THAT IS WORKING WITH HIM, PEOPLE WHO ARE GIVING HIM INFORMATION.

SO TO DATE, OKAY, HE IS MAKING SMALL MISTAKES.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS.

>> WE HAVEN'T SEEN A MAJOR MISTAKES BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF HIM.

HIS STAFF SEEMS TO BE KEEPING HIM UNDER WRAPS SO HE DOESN'T MAKE THE GAFFS THAT HE HAS BEEN MAKING AND THAT'S A TREMENDOUS PROBLEM BECAUSE ONE OF THE GREATEST TOOLS THAT A PRESIDENT HAS IS THE BULLY PULPIT AND HE DIDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SUPER BOWL PREGAME INTERVIEW WHICH WAS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO GET BASICALLY FREE EXPOSURE, IN THIS CASE, TO A RECORD SIZED AUDIENCE OF 125 MILLION PEOPLE.

I DON'T THINK IT IS THE AGE, DAVE.

I THINK-- WELL, IT'S NOT THE AGE.

IT CAN'T BE, REALLY, BECAUSE HE IS ONLY FOUR YEARS OLDER THAN TRUMP.

I THINK THE ISSUE IS WHAT I JUST MENTIONED, THAT HE IS NOT REALLY OUT THERE.

THAT THERE ARE THESE GAFFS.

BUT ALSO THAT HIS PUBLIC APPROVAL RATINGS ARE FAIRLY LOW.

PEOPLE DO NOT SEE HIM PERFORMING AS WELL ON ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT MATTER MOST TO THEM: THE ECONOMY, IMMIGRATION, THE BORDER CRISIS, NATIONAL SECURITY AND DOWN THE LINE.

AND SO THE TRICK IS, BOTH TO BECOME MORE VISIBLE SO THAT YOU CAN TALK PEOPLE THROUGH THESE ISSUES, SORT OF IN THE STYLE OF F.D.R.

AND THE FIRE SIDE CHATS.

BUT ALSO, TO GET SERIOUSLY PREPARED FOR THE DEBATE BECAUSE I WORRY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THERE WHEN THERE IS NO ONE THERE TO PROTECT HIM.

>> SO GIVEN HIS LOW APPROVAL RATINGS THEN, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT-- I MEAN HE SHOULD STEP ASIDE ANYWAY BECAUSE HE IS NOT-- BECAUSE HE IS GOING HAVE DIFFICULTY WINNING?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THAT HIS LOWER APPROVAL RATINGS ARE CONNECTED TO WHAT HE AND HIS ADMINISTRATION HAVE BRAGGED TO BE HIS MANY ACHIEVEMENTS.

IN FACT WE HAVE SEEN RECORD LOW UNEMPLOYMENT, INFLATION IS TAKING A TURN.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THOSE ARE NOT BEING COMMUNICATED AS EFFECTIVELY AS THEY CAN BE TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT THE CONFLICT BETWEEN TWO OF HIS LEAD SPOKESPERSONS, CORE EEM JEAN-PIERRE.

WHY ARE NOT HEARING THE PRESIDENT REGULARLY TELL US THINGS ARE BETTER, FOLKS.

HERE IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

>> SO, BEN, WHAT THIS SEEMS TO DO IS REINFORCE,-- WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ALREADY THINK, THAT, HE HAS LOST A STEP OR MAYBE TWO.

SO THAT DOES PRESENT A PROBLEM.

IF IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO BEAT DONALD TRUMP-- TO PREVENT DONALD TRUMP FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT AGAIN, ISN'T-- DOESN'T THAT REASONING TAKE YOU TO THE POINT WHERE, OKAY, SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO TAKE THE MANTLE HERE?

>> IT DOES, AND SO THEY HAVE DONE POLLS, AND EVERY POLL CONTINUES TO SHOW HIM HAVING THE BEST CHANCE OF BEATING TRUMP.

WHAT THIS DID, WHAT THIS CURRENT STORY DID THIS WEEK IS JUST HIGHLIGHT WHAT WAS ALREADY A CONCERN FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS ABOUT HIS APPEARANCE, NOT SO MUCH HIS CHRONOLOGICAL AGE, BECAUSE LIKE WHAT WAS STATED, THE TWO OF THEM THAT ARE RUNNING AGAINST EACH OTHER RAN AGAINST EACH OTHER LAST TIME AND THEY BEAT THE RECORD OF BEING THE ELDEST TWO TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, RIGHT?

AND SO NOTHING IS NEW.

AND THEY'RE BOTH MAKING GAFFS.

THE DIFFERENCE IS FOR THIS, 1: WHAT CAME OUT WITH THE FINDINGS OF THE CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.

AND THE TRANSCRIPT OF THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED.

WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO DO IS TAKE A LOOK AT THE TRANSCRIPT BECAUSE WHAT WAS HIGHLIGHTED WERE YEARS, TRYING TO REMEMBER A YEAR THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED VERSUS CONTEXT.

THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BECAUSE A LAWYER WILL TELL YOU, THE NUMBER ONE RULE IS, WHEN YOU ARE BEING INTERVIEWED FOR FIVE HOURS, IF YOU DON'T-- IF YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER FOR SURE, YOU SAY I DON'T RECALL.

AND THAT'S LEGAL ADVICE VERSUS MENTAL ACUTE ACUITY.

>> HE APPARENTLY DID SAY THAT A NUMBER OF TIMES, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT HIS STAFF HAS BEEN ARGUING.

AND YOU MENTIONED THAT BOTH CANDIDATES MAKE GAFFS.

AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT'S TRUE, THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS PLENTY OF THOSE.

>> AND IT'S ALWAYS WORKED FOR HIM.

HE DOESN'T COME ACROSS AS A POLISHED POLITICIAN BECAUSE HE IS NOT AND THAT'S PART OF HIS PERSONA.

SO HE HAS BEEN LEANING INTO THE GAFFS THAT HE MAKES HERE AND THERE BECAUSE HE'S LIKING HEY, WE'LL JUST DRAIN THE SWAMP.

>> BUT I THINK THERE IS A CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW TRUMP SHOWS HIS AGE OR PERHAPS HE IS SHOWING SOME OTHER THINGS ABOUT HIMSELF THAT I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO.

BUT I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST WEEK OR SO IS THAT BIDEN HAS GOTTEN A SECOND WIN BECAUSE OF TRUMP, BY TRUMP SAYING THAT HE WANTS RUSSIA TO, YOU KNOW, GO AFTER NATO ALLIES AND THEN WITHIN DAYS AFTER THAT, IT BEING REVEALED THAT RUSSIA WANTS TO HAVE ACCESS TO NUR, YOU KNOW, SYSTEMS THAT'S WOULD TAKE OUT OUR COMMUNICATIONS.

SO I THINK TRUMP HAS HELPED BIDEN IN THAT REGARD.

AND SO HAVE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT BORDER CRISIS ISSUES AND WANT CAN TO, YOU KNOW, FIX THAT AND THEN WHEN YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY-- NOT NECESSARILY TO DO IT THE WAY THAT THE SENATE WANTS BUT SIMPLY TO TAKE UP THE SENATE BILL, I THINK THEY'VE HELPED BIDEN.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT BUT THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE POINT THAT YOU WERE MAKING ABOUT IS BIDEN CAPABLE OF SEIZING THE MOMENT AND RUNNING WITH IT AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, HE HAS NOT DONE THAT AND THAT HIGHLIGHTS THAT POINT.

>> THERE IS MENTAL FITNESS AND MORAL FITNESS AND ETHICAL FITNESS AND THOSE SHOULD FACTOR IN ANYWAY.

>> AS LONG AS OUR MEDIA IS FOCUSED ON IMAGERY AND PUNCH LINES, BIDEN IS LOSING.

>> NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL HAS PASSED THE HOW MANY STOPS ACT, A LAW REQUIRING NYPD OFFICERS TO RECORD THE AGE, RACE AND GENDER OF EVERY PERSON THEY STOP.

THEY HAVE TO RECORD THE INFORMATION EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SUSPECTS IN ANY CRIMES.

PROPONENTS OF THE NEW LAW WANT TO GATHER MORE DATA ON STREET STOPS IN AN EFFORT TO SHOW POLICE ARE STILL ENGAGING IN WHAT AMOUNTS TO STOP AND FRISK.

THE POLICE UNION AND MAYOR ERIC ADAMS SAY IT WILL BE ONEROUS.

SHOULD THE PRACTICE BE IMPLEMENTED.

BEEN, ALSO A FORMER COP, OUR RESIDENT FORMER COP.

SHOULD THE LAW STAND?

IT'S A LAW BUT IS IT A GOOD POLICY?

>> IT'S A HORRIFIC POLICY.

THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT IT DOES SLOW DOWN FOR VOLUNTARY STOPS, FOR MISSING KIDS, FOR ALL 911-DRIVEN CALLS, WHICH IS WHAT POLICING IS, A LOT OF IT IS REACTIVE TO CITIZENS ASKING FOR HELP.

SLOWING DOWN TO DO THAT COULD NOT ONLY JUST SLOW DOWN THE PROCESS, THE INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS, BUT COULD HAVE BAD CONSEQUENCES FOR A MISSING CHILD, FOR INSTANCE, WHERE, YOU KNOW, TIME DOES MATTER.

NOW THERE WAS PART OF THE BILL THAT WAS INTRODUCED ABOUT THE SEARCHING.

I BELIEVE THAT'S CALLED INTRO 538.

THAT ONE MAKES SENSE.

IF YOU ARE ASKING FOR CONSENT TO SEARCH SOMEBODY, AND THEY AGREE OR DISAGREE, I THINK THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT-- OKAY, YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DOCUMENT THOSE THINGS.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S OVERLY BURDENSOME.

>> IF YOU ARE SEARCHING SOMEONE, DOES THAT SORT OF MAKE THEM, BY DEFINITION, YOU SUSPECT THEM OFFING?

>> I THINK THAT TAKES IT FROM EVEN BEYOND THE INVESTIGATIVE KIND OF STOP THAT WE ARE USED TO, WHERE YOU HAVE A VOLUNTARY STOP, WHICH IS THIS LEVEL 1 AND 2 THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE IF YOU WANTED TO LEAVE, YOU COULD LEAVE.

THAT IS PART OF POLICING THAT WE HAVE DONE FOR MANY YEARS, WHERE IT'S ENGAGING THE COMMUNITY.

SO AT WHAT POINT DO YOU WRITE DOWN THAT YOU STOPPED AND GAVE PEOPLE STICKERS?

DOES THAT-- THAT WOULD BE LEVEL ONE.

SO ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO PUT DOWN THAT HEY, I GAVE A STICKER.

THIS IS THEIR RACE, THEIR AGE...

IT'S INSANE.

IT IS INSANE.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT-- I'M SORRY.

>> NO, GO AHEAD.

>> I BELIEVE THAT IT IS POTENTIALLY ONEROUS TO POLICE OFFICERS AND I'M NOT UNSYMPATHETIC TO THAT VIEW; HOWEVER, I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS TRUMPED BY THE FACT THAT WE HAVE FOUND, IN THIS COUNTRY, FOR DECADES, REALLY REMARKABLE DISTURBING RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOW PEOPLE ARE ENGAGED BY THE POLICE AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STANDS OUT THAT I'LL OFFER IN RESPONSE TO WHAT YOU SAID, BEN, IS THAT ONLY 2% OF STOPS, WHERE THERE IS A SEARCH OF EITHER THE PERSON OR THE DRIVER, RESULTS IN THE RECOVERY OF CRIMINAL EVIDENCE.

SO FOLKS ARE BEING STOPPED IN WAYS THAT DON'T NECESSARILY CONTRIBUTE TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

THE OTHER IS ROUGHLY 25% OF FOLKS WHO ARE STOPPED ARE STOPPED FOR REASONS THAT ARE NOT DISCLOSED TO THE PERSON WHO IS STOPPED.

SO I THINK THERE IS A ALSO BIT LIKE THE POLICE BODY CAM ISSUE IN THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSH BACK ON THE PART OF LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT THE WAY WE HAVE SEEN THAT WORK OUT IS THAT IT HELPS LAW ENFORCEMENT TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT SOME OF THE OUTRAGEOUS ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST THEM BY INDIVIDUAL CIVILIANS HAVE PROVEN TO NOT BE TRUE.

I THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE HERE AS WELL.

TO SEE WHETHER, AND AT LEAST IN SYRACUSE AND UPSTATE AREAS, WHETHER THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT ACTUALLY PLAY OUT HERE.

SO THE RESULTS COULD BE GOOD FOR POLICE OFFICERS.

>> TARA.

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, BASED ON THE WAY THAT THIS WILL WORK IS THAT BASICALLY USING A SMART PHONE AND THERE WILL BE A MENU ON THE SMART PHONE THAT YOU JUST SIMPLY PULL DOWN AND YOU JUST, ALMOST LIKE A BOX CHECK.

RACE, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, GENDER FEMALE, AGE, ET CETERA.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

SO IT REALLY SHOULD TAKE NO MORE THAN 30 SECONDS.

THE POLICE ARE ALLOWED, IF IT'S A GROUP SITUATION, YOU ONLY HAVE TO DO IT ONCE FOR THE ENTIRE GROUP.

THE OTHER THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT HOW MANY PEOPLE REALLY UNDERSTAND-- AND I WILL BE HONEST I DIDN'T-- THAT IN A LEVEL ONE BASICALLY WHERE THE POLICE WALK UP TO YOU AND SAY HEY, DID YOU SEE X HAPPEN, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SIMPLY WALK AWAY.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

AND SO HOW MANY PEOPLE REALLY KNOW THAT IN THAT LEVEL ONE SITUATION YOU CAN JUST SIMPLY WALK AWAY?

SECOND, HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE SIMPLY WALKING AWAY?

SO I THINK THIS ALSO WILL WORK FOR THE POLICE IN THAT IT WILL MAKE THE PUBLIC MORE INFORMED.

IT MAY MAKE THEIR JOB A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT IN THE EARLY STAGES OF IT AS THEY GET USED TO IT.

BUT I THINK THIS ACTUALLY MAY BECOME MORE HELPFUL BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT WASTE TIME INTERVIEWING PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE THEM A HARD TIME OR, YOU KNOW, HAVE AN ISSUE.

THEY MAY JUST SIMPLY BE ABLE TO FOCUS MORE ON PEOPLE WHO ARE USEFUL TO THEIR INVESTIGATION.

>> FOR ME, THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE POLITICIANS TRYING TO CHECK A BOX; THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME WAY TO SAY, LOOK, WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE THEM MORE TRANSPARENT.

THE PROBLEM IS, IF IT IS A RACIAL THING, IF IT IS THAT THEY'RE STOPPING PEOPLE OF COLOR, THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

THAT'S A TRAINING ISSUE.

THAT'S A COGNITIVE BIAS VERSUS GIVING THEM A PHONE WHERE THEY HAVE TO USE BOTH HANDS TO DROP DOWN.

YES, MAYBE 30 SECONDS, 30 SECONDS OF NOT LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THEM.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, LET ME JUST SAY THE LAST PART IS THE RESULTS ARE GOING TO BE LESS PROACTIVE OFFICERS, WHICH THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN VERSUS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET, WHICH IS JUST DATA.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT DATA?

>> WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THAT DATA, IS YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS RACIAL DISPARITIES AND BE ABLE TO SORT OF STRUCTURE TRAINING SO THAT IF THE STOPS END UP BEING A WASTE OF TIME, THEN I TRAIN POLICE OFFICERS TO BE BETTER ABOUT IDENTIFYING WHERE THERE ARE PROBLEMS.

AND HERE IS THE REALITY.

WHEN A POLICE OFFICER STOPS SOMEONE, IF THEY ARE, INDEED A SUSPECT OR IF THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A SUSPECT, WE ALREADY HEAR WHAT IS THE FIRST DISCRIMINATION?

A BLACK FEMALE, A BLACK MALE.

AND IF THERE ARE OTHER DESCRIPTORS, THAT'S UNUSUAL SO THERE IS ALWAYS ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE OUT THERE TO HAVE SYSTEMIC EVIDENCE CAN ONLY-- SYSTEMATIC EVIDENCE CAN HELP BOTH SIDES I THINK.

>> MORE THAN ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE.

THERE IS A COURT APPOINTED MON TOSH OF THE NYPD, RIGHT, AFTER THE STOP AND FRISK CASE.

>> THIS WOULD BE, YES.

>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION TO BE LEFT ALONE BUT WE ARE TALKING WITH LEVEL ONE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ASSISTING A SICK PERSON ON THE SUBWAY.

THEY HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME TO DOCUMENT IT.

IN ADDITION TO DOING THEIR JOB.

>> OKAY.

NOW, IN HER PROPOSED BUDGET, NEW YORK GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL HAS INCLUDED LEGISLATION TO CLOSE UP TO 5 STATE PRISONS.

NEW YORK'S PRISON POPULATION IS HALF WHAT IT ONCE WAS, AND DOZENS OF FACILITIES HAVE ALREADY BEEN CLOSED.

ALBANY REPUBLICANS ARE CRITICAL OF THE IDEA, AS IS THE CORRECTIONS UNION.

THEY ARGUE THAT VIOLENCE IN PRISONS IS INCREASING AND MORE STAFF IS NEEDED.

NINA, SHOULD MORE PRISONS BE CLOSED?

WE DON'T KNOW WHICH ONES WOULD CLOSE, BUT IT'S A SAFE BET THEY'D BE UPSTATE >> YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK TO SEE WHICH ONES SHOULD BE CLOSED.

FOR ME, THIS IS REALLY A NUMBERS GAME; THAT BETWEEN 2012 AND 2022 OVER ROUGHLY A 10-YEAR PERIOD, YOU WILL SEE ON THE GRAPH THERE,THAT THE SIZE OF THE PRISON POPULATION HAS GONE DOWN TREMENDOUSLY.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, PRISONS ARE EMPTYING OUT.

WHY WE WOULD CONTINUE TO PAY ROUGHLY 30 TO $40,000 PER BED TO KEEP OPEN EMPTY PRISONS IS BEYOND ME.

AND IF, AS THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, I THINK PLAWSBLY ARGUE THAT THEIR SAFETY IS AT ISSUE, THEN WHY NOT MOVE THOSE OFFICERS TO PRISONS WHERE YOU DO HAVE, IN FACT, SUFFICIENT POPULATION WHERE THERE ARE SERVICES, THEIR EXPERTISE IS NEEDED I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS ALSO, THAT A GAD PROPORTION OF THOSE THAT ARE COMMITTED TO PRISON EACH YEAR ARE COMMITTED NO THE BECAUSE THEY'VE COMMITTED A NEW CRIME, BUT RATHER ROUGHLY 40% OF NEW PRISON COMMITMENTS ARE DUE TO PAROLE VIOLATIONS AND MOST OF THOSE, ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF JUSTICE STATISTICS, MOST RECENT REPORT, MOST OF THOSE ARE DUE TO TECHNICAL VIOLATIONS.

SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE THINGS.

AND I DO NOT THINK THIS IS AS CLEARLY A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE AS IT HAS BEEN SORT OF PAINTED TO BE BECAUSE OVER THE YEARS, THERE IS VERY LITTLE CONNECTION BETWEEN INCREASED IMPRISONMENT AND LOWER CRIME.

>> TARA.

>> I ALSO SEE 24 AS BEING PART OF THE BIGGER ISSUE OF THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX MOST OF THE INITIAL CONCERNS EXPRESSED ABOUT THIS HAD TO DO MORE WITH THE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THESE PRISONS WOULD BE AND THE LOSS OF REVENUE RATHER THAN ABOUT CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRISONERS THEMSELVES AND IF YOU PAY ATTENTION TO ANY OF THE STUDIES, YOU LOOK AT THE COST TO THE FAMILIES OF THE PRISONERS I BELIEVE JUST A PHONE CALL FROM A PRISON RUNS ALMOST $8 AND THAT HAS TO BE PAID BY THE PERSON YOU ARE CALLING, NOT PAID BY THE PRISONER.

THEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER COSTS TO THE PRISONS THEMSELVES TO ME, THIS IS PART OF THE BIGGER ISSUE OF WHAT ARE PRISONS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.

ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT WAREHOUSING PRISONERS AND REHABILITATING THOSE THAT CAN BE REHABILITATED OR ARE THEY SIMPLY THERE TO MAKE MONEY FOR THAT COMMUNITY?

>> AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY THE KEY TO THIS WHOLE QUESTION.

THEY'RE GOING TO GET OUT AT SOME POINT.

ARE WE JUST GOING TO CLOSE DOWN THE PRISONS, JAM THEM ALL TOGETHER WHERE IT HAS BEEN SHOWN WHERE THEY HAVE MORE ISSUES, PUTS THEM AT MORE RISK, PUTS THE STAFF AT YOUR MORE RISK AND WE ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HELP GET THEM READY TO GO BACK INTO SOCIETY WHEN THEY GET OUT.

WE ARE MISSING THE POINT.

>> SO WE ARE SPREADING THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS RANKS TOO THINLY.

IF YOU'VE GOT THREE OR FOUR OFFICERS THAT A PRISON THAT IS EMPTIED OUT OR MOSTLY EMPTIED OUT, WOULDN'T IT MAKE MORE SENSE TO MOVE THEM TO WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE PRISONERS WHO DO NEED TO BE MORE CLOSELY SUPERVISED?

>> AND PART OF THIS THOUGH IS, OF COURSE, PRISONS WHEREVER THEY ARE, I MEAN THE PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE AND MAYBE IT'S NOT A PRISON AT CAPACITY, BUT THEY HAVE LIVES IN THAT COMMUNITY AS WELL AND THEY HAVE FAMILIES IN THAT COMMUNITY.

IF YOU CLOSE THEM, LIKE ANY BUSINESS, WHEN YOU CLOSE THAT, THAT'S DISRUPTIVE TO THE COMMUNITY AS WELL, IS IT NOT?

>> YES.

>> YES, BUT YOU CAN'T USE PRISON AS AN EMPLOYMENT POLICY.

WE HAVE TO USE PRISONS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> WE MAY HAVE DONE THAT IN THE PAST, RIGHT.

>> YES.

>> WE NEED TO GO TO OUR AS AND F RS AND NINA, YOUR F. >> HOW QUICKLY WE MOVE OSM THE SYRACUSE HOUSING AUTHORITY BOARD BEGAN TALKS WITH SUNY UPSTATE TO BUILD A 125 MILLION-DOLLAR STATE OPTOMETRY SCHOOL, GET THIS, TO REPLACE THE PIONEER HOMES AFTER I-81 IS TORN DOWN.

IT'S SAD THAT THE PUBLIC HOUSING BOARD SOMEHOW THOUGHT IT WAS OKAY TO SELL PUBLIC HOUSING LAND WITHOUT PUBLIC INPUT, BUT EVEN WORSE, IS THAT THE BOARD SOMEHOW FORGOT THEIR JOB IS TO PROVIDE NOT FOR A SCHOOL OF OPTOMETRY, BUT FOR PUBLIC HOUSING.

>> BEN.

>> MY F IS GOING TO A DELTA FLIGHT LEAVING AMSTERDAM ON ITS WAY TO DETROIT.

AN HOUR INTO THE FLIGHT, IT WAS, WHEN THEY OPENED ONE OF THE OVERHEADS, A SUITCASE BURST OPEN WITH ROTTEN FISH AND MAG ON THES MAGGOTS ALL OVER THE PASSENGERS.

THEY HAD TO TURN THE FLIGHT BACK AROUND AT THAT POINT.

NOW ON TOP OF THAT, IT WAS ONLY THE CUSTOMERS THAT DID NOT MAKE THEIR CONNECTING FLIGHT THAT GOT ANYTHING IN COMPENSATION FOR THAT.

>> THAT STINKS.

>> TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO THOSE WHO USE SWATTING AS A METHOD OF HARASSING POLITICIANS AND OTHERS WITH WHOM THEY DISAGREE.

SWATTING IS CALLING IN A FALSE THREAT TO POLICE SO SWAT WILL BE CALLED TO A POLITICIAN'S HOME OR PLACE OF BUSINESS.

POLITICIANS FROM NIKKI HALEY AND SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY HAVE BEEN SWATTED.

SADLY THOSE WHO MAKE THESE CALLS DON'T REMEMBER THAT THIS IS COSTING THE PUBLIC IN MANY, MANY WAYS.

>> As NINA.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO HOBBY LOBBY FOR RUNNING ADS DURING THE SUPER BOWL THAT FEATURED PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS WATCH WASHING FEET, IN OTHER WORDS HELPING ONE ANOTHER.

THE POINT OF THE ADS WAS TO REMIND US OF THE LOVE THY NEIGHBOR PRINCIPAL OF HAVING EMPATHY FORKERS WHO WHO ARE NOT LIKE US AND SHOWING US WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

WE NEED MORE MESSAGES LIKE THAT PT.

>> MY A GOES TO TRASH COLLECTORS IN VEENVILLE SOUTH CAROLINA THAT SHOWED WHAT PUBLIC SERVICE IS ABOUT.

A YOUNG FEMALE LOST HER WEDDING RING IN THE TRASH.

SENT AN EMAIL THINKING SHE WOULD NEVER SEE IT AGAIN.

THEY SPENT OVER AN HOUR LOOKING FOR HER RING, FOUND IT AND GOT IT BACK TO HER.

>> TARA.

TO ONONDAGA COUNTY'S MENTAL HEALTH DIVISION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES.

DIVISION JUST RECEIVED A $3.7 MILLION GRANT FROM THE FEDERAL OFFICE OF SUBSTANCE USE AND MENTAL HEALTH TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR YOUTH WITH MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS.

ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO, AS THEY TRANSITION FROM CHILDHOOD TO ADULTHOOD, TEND TO DEVELOP MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS AT THAT POINT.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

JRKS.