>> NOW, SHE IS NOT A MOVIE DIRECTOR, BUT OUR NEXT GUEST HAS SPENT MUCH OF HER CAREER WITH THE ORIGINAL TEXT OF HOMER'S GREAT POEM.

SHE EVEN WROTE THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION THAT INFLUENCED NOLAN'S FILM AND HAS NOW SOLD OVER ONE MILLION COPIES.

EMILY WILSON IS A PROFESSOR OF CLASSICAL STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AND SHE IS JOINING WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS HOW HER TRANSLATION DIFFERS FROM OTHERS INCLUDING NOLAN'S TELLING OF THE TALE.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND EMILY WILSON, THANK YOU TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> SO YOU HAVE THIS GREAT TRANSLATION OF "THE ODYSSEY. "

IT'S BECOMING A BEST-SELLER AGAIN BECAUSE OF YOU, AND IT'S OF COURSE THE MOVIE.

BUT LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING, THE OPENING OF HOMER'S EPIC.

I'M OLD ENOUGH THAT I GOT TO STUDY IT UNDER ROBERT FITZGERALD WHO DID A GREAT TRANSLATION OF IT.

AND HE WOULD READ IT TO CLASS.

AND HE BEGINS WITH "SING IN ME, MUSE, AND THROUGH ME TELL THE STORY OF THAT MAN SKILLED IN ALL WAYS OF CONTENDING. "

AND THEN PROBABLY UP UNTIL YOU, THE MOST POPULAR WAS A ROBL FAGELS TRANSLATION.

SING TO ME OF THE MAN, MUSE, THE MAN OF TWISTS AND TURNS.

WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME, SAY FOR ME THE GREEK LINES AND WHY YOU PICKED A TRANSLATION DIFFERENT FROM THAT.

>> SURE.

SO I'LL JUST DO THE FIRST TWO LINES OF THE GREEK, AND THEN I'LL DO VERSION OF THOSE LINES, AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.

SO THIS IS THE GREEK.

IT'S IN DACTYLIC HEXAMETER.

SO I HOPE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO HEAR THERE IS A REGULAR METRICAL RHYTHM TO IT.

THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE POEM IN GREEK.

[ SPEAKING IN GREEK ] SO MY VERSION OF THOSE TWO LINES IS -- >> YEAH, THE BIG ISSUE ON YOUR TRANSLATION, YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT IT IN "CROSSING THE WINE-DARK SEA" IS THAT WORD "COMPLICATED MAN. "

NOT JUST A MAN OF TWISTS AND TURNS.

IT COMES FROM THE POLI THAT YOU TRANSLATED IN GREEK.

WHY DID YOU PICK THE WORD "COMPLICATED MAN" WHICH SEEMS SO MODERN TO US?

>> YES.

I THINK IT'S IMPOSSIBLE REALLY.

TRANSLATION IN GENERAL IS IMPOSSIBLE.

A WORD SUCH AS POLUTROPOS, WHICH CLEARLY HAS MULTIPLE DIFFERENT MEANS AS WELL AS REFERRING TO ODSSEUS TURNS AND THE TURNS IT TAKES IN NARRATIVE.

HOW CAN WE DO THAT IN ENGLISH THAT I'M USING TO ECHO THE TRADITIONAL METER OF THE ORIGINAL.

IT'S INEVITABLY TEMPTING I THINK TO DO WHAT MANY TRANSLATORS HAVE DONE AND TRANSLATE A SINGLE WORD INTO GREEK BY A PHRASE RATHER THAN A SINGLE WORD, A MAN OF TWISTS AND TURNS, WHICH TO ME SOUNDS LESS PELUCID.

IT ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING.

I KNOW WHAT COMPLICATED MEANS.

I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY THIS CHARACTER OR THIS POEM OR THIS JOURNEY WILL BE COMPLICATED.

AND SO IT'S I HOPE AN ENTICEMENT, AS I THINK THE ORIGINAL WAS TO KEEP LISTENING, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO LEARN THINGS WE DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THESE LAYERS AND TWISTS AND TURNS IN THE PROTAGONIST AND HIS STORY.

TO ME IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SEEM INTERNAL.

A SITUATION CAN BE COMPLICATED.

A STORY CAN BE COMPLICATED.

A POLITICAL ISSUE CAN BE COMPLICATED.

>> LET ME STOP YOU THERE.

>> YEAH.

>> BECAUSE IN YOUR "CROSSING THE WINE- DARK SEA" YOU SAID YOU WORRY IT DID SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE -- >> I WORRIED ABOUT IT, YES.

BUT ALSO, I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY BEEN A CONCERN OF MINE, BUT I ALSO TEND TO THINK THAT WITH SO MANY COMPROMISES IN SO MANY AREAS OF LIFE, BUT INCLUDING TRANSLATION, IT'S LIKE HOW DEMOCRACY IS THE WORLD POSSIBLE POLITICAL SYSTEM EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHERS.

I THINK COMPLICATED IS NOT THE IDEAL CHOICE.

IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S QUITE A LOT CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL THAN SAY RESOURCEFUL IS, WHICH DOESN'T ACTUALLY CONVEY ANYTHING ABOUT THE TWISTS AND TURNS AND LAYERS WHICH IS WHAT'S CONVEYED BY THE METAPHOR OF THE MANY TURNS, THE MANY TWISTS, THE MANY LAYERS OF POLUTROPOS.

>> IN "THE ODYSSEY," WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE EMOTIONS DRIVING THIS COMPLICATED MAN?

>> I MEAN, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE PRIMARY DIRE OF ODYSSEUS IS THE SAME DESIRE OF ACHILLES IN THE ILIAD IS TO GENERATE ETERNAL PAYOFFS, ETERNAL FAME.

BUT THIS IS PARADOX.

WHEREAS IN THE ILIAD, THE WARRIORS ARE GENERATING ETERNAL FAME BY RISKING THEIR LIVES IN WARFARE, ODYSSEUS GENERATES ETERNAL FAME BY THESE PARADOXICAL MEANS, BY HIS ABILITY TO INHABIT SPACES THAT ARE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE BATTLEFIELD, TO INTERACT WITH GIANTS AND GODDESSES AND EVEN THE ENSLAVED MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD AND THE SUITORS WHO HAVE BEEN HITTING ON HIS WIFE FOR THE LAST HOWEVER MANY YEARS.

SO HE HAS THIS CAPACITY TO FIND FAME IN STRANGE PLACES.

BUT I THINK THAT DESIRE TO GENERATE FAME THROUGH A LONG PERIOD OF BEING NAMELESS, OR BEING NAMED "NO MAN" IS THE PRIMARY NARRATIVE OF THE POEM.

>> YOU SAY IT CAME TOGETHER IN THE 7th CENTURY BCE.

THAT'S A GOLDEN AGE OF GREEK EXPANSION.

HOW DID THAT AFFECT THE POEM?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.

SO THESE POEMS, THE ILIAD AND THE ODYSSEY WERE DRAWING ON MUCH, MUCH OLDER MYTHS, ALL THE STORIES ABOUT THE FALL OF TROY, THE AGE OF HEROES, THE TIMES GONE BY, WHICH IN A WAY WERE FOLK MEMORIES OF THE MYCENAUM CIVILIZATION.

THEY'RE COMPOSED IN THIS ARCHAIC PERIOD WHICH IS A MASSIVE EXPANSION OF GREEK SPEAKERS ACROSS THE MEDITERRANEAN WORLD, A TIME OF GREEK COLONIZATION, MIGRATION, AND OF COURSE "THE ODYSSEY" ITSELF IS ENGAGED WITH THE THEMES HOW DO GREEK SPEAKERS ENGAGE WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT GREEK, WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN STRANGERS AND FRIENDS?

HOW DO GREEK SPEAKERS BAND TOGETHER OR BATTLE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

AND WHAT'S THE ROLE OF TECHNOLOGY AND NEW KINDS OF TECHNOLOGY, NEW KINDS OF CLEVERNESS IN THIS NEW AGE.

ODYSSEUS A CULTURE HERO ACROSS HIS TIME FROM THE BRONZE AGE TO THE IRON AGE.

>> AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CULTURE OF THE TIME IN WHICH IT WAS COMPOSED HELPING SHAPE WHAT IT IS.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT YOU.

TO WHAT EXTENT DOES THE CULTURE OF THE TIME OF THE TRANSLATOR, WHETHER GO BACK TO CHAPMAN, THE GREAT POETICAL 16 SOMETHING, 1660 TO TODAY.

HOW DOES THE CULTURE OF A TRANSLATOR AFFECT THE POEM?

>> I THINK IT INEVITABLY AFFECTS THE POEM.

EVEN IF YOU'RE TRYING TO EVOKE THIS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT TIME FROM YOUR OWN, WHICH OF COURSE TO BE A RESPONSIBLE TRANSLATOR OF A VERY ANCIENT TEXT, I WANT IN SOME WAYS TO OFFER THE READER SOMETHING LIKE A TIME MACHINE BY GOING BACK OVER 2,000 YEARS TO THIS VERY ANCIENT, VERY ALIEN CULTURE REPRESENTATION.

AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, THE QUESTIONS THAT MODERN HOMERISTS OR MODERN TRANSLATORS OF HOMER ARE BRINGING TO THE TEXT ARE INEVITABLY INFORMED BY OUR OWN CULTURE.

AS YOU SAY -- >> GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE FOR YOURSELF.

>> SO FOR ME, I WOULD SAY THAT LIKE MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES, I APPROACH THE HOMERIC POEMS WITH MUCH MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DO THESE POEMS REPRESENT SOCIAL HIERARCHIES AND SOCIAL INEQUALITIES, AND HOW DO THEY THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE ENSLAVEMENT AND THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALE CHARACTERS.

I DON'T APPROACH THE POEMS IN QUITE THE SAME WAY AS, SAY, GEORGE CHAPMAN, THE FIRST TRANSLATOR OF THE POEMS BECAUSE COMING TO THE ODYSSEY WAS A SENSE THIS MUST BE A BIT LIKE A CHRISTIAN JOURNEY OR PILGRIMAGE TOWARDS REDEMPTION AND GRACE.

AND I DON'T APPROACH THEM WITH QUITE THE SAME APPROACH AS ALEXANDER POPE, WHO'S WONDERFUL FIRST TRANSLATIONS THROUGH THE 18th CENTURY ARE BRINGING IDEAS ABOUT ENLIGHTENMENT TO HOW HE THINKS ABOUT "THE ODYSSEY. "

I THINK MUCH MORE ABOUT THE MODERN 21st CENTURY IDEAS ABOUT SOCIETY.

AND I'M ALSO ENFORMED BY AN AWARENESS THAT HOMER IS RICH IN WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT SOCIETY.

ALL OF THE CHARACTERS, IN MY OPINION, HAVE THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVES.

AND THE NARRATIVE FLIPS AROUND THROUGH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES THAT APPLIES TO SCENES WHERE THERE IS A FEMALE CHARACTER SPEAKING TO A MALE CHARACTER.

I DON'T ASSUME AHEAD OF TIME ONE OF THESE CHARACTERS WILL BE INTERESTING AND THE FEMALE ONE WON'T BE.

BUT I ALSO DON'T THINK HOMER THINKS THAT EITHER.

BUT I ALSO BRING THAT SAME PERSPECTIVE IF IT'S TWO MALE CHARACTERS AS YOU DON'T THINK THAT MY PRIMARY FOCUS IS ON WOMEN CHARACTERS HAVE GOT TO SOMEHOW BE AMPED UP.

I THINK THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE IRRESPONSIBLE.

>> YOU KNOW, I'LL ADMIT I TRIED TO READ THE CHAPMAN TRANSLATION.

I COULDN'T POSSIBLY GET THROUGH IT.

>> IT'S FUN.

YOU SHOULD TRY AGAIN.

>> I'LL TRY AGAIN.

I TRIED LAST NIGHT IN PREPARATION.

BUT IT'S SO FORMAL AND ORATANT.

AND YOU TRANSLATED MORE CASUALLY, MORE DIRECT AND SIMPLE.

IS THAT MORE FAITHFUL TO HOMER?

>> I THINK IT IS MORE FAITHFUL TO QUITE A LOT OF ELEMENTS OF THE ORIGINAL.

I THINK THERE IS NO WAY TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S ABSOLUTELY EQUIVALENT TO EVERY POSSIBLE FEATURE OF A COMPLEX POEM LIKE THIS, BUT HOMERIC POETRY IS SOMETIMES PERCEIVED AS VERY DIFFICULT.

BUT IF YOU'RE SOMEONE WHO TEACHES GREEK OR LEARNS GREEK YOU CAN START STUDYING HOMER AFTER THE FIRST YEAR OF LEARNING THE LANGUAGE.

THE SYNTAX IS REALLY VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD.

THE VOCABULARY YOU HAVE TO LEARN, BUT THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF FAIRLY SIMPLE DICTION AS WELL AS THIS VERY IN SOME WAYS SIMPLE SYNTAX OF HERE'S A MAN, TELL ME.

THE FIRST THREE WORDS OF "THE ODYSSEY," ANDRA MOI, MAN TO ME TELL.

IT'S STRAIGHT FORWARD.

IT'S NOTHING TRICKSY ABOUT IT LINGUISTICALLY.

AND ANCIENT CRITICS TALKED ABOUT THE VIVIDNESS OF HOMERIC POETRY.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO EVOKE BY USING A DIRECT AND I HOPE VIVID KIND OF ENGLISH.

>> DO YOU WORRY PERHAPS WE LOSE SOME OF THE GRANDEUR?

>> I THINK GRANDEUR COMES IN MANY SHAPES AND FORMS.

I THINK WE MAY HAVE A PERCEPTION THAT YOU HAVE TO BE SUPER FANCY TO BE GRAND.

AND I ACTUALLY THINK SOMETIMES OVERDOING IT ON THE FANCINESS CAN MAKE THINGS FALL FLAT OR SEEM AS IF IT'S KIND OF ORNATE, BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY A SENSE OF THE SUBLIME.

I THINK THE SUBLIME CAN BE ACHIEVED BY A KIND OF PLAINNESS AS WELL AS ORNATENESS IN POETICS.

THERE IS AN ANCIENT TREATIES CALLED ON THE SUBBLIEMS BY LONGINES, AND HE QUOTES GENESIS AS SUBBLAMETY.

"LET THERE BE LIGHT. "

AND HE JUXTAPOSES IT WITH VARIOUS LINES OF HOMER.

AND IT TAKES SOME INSPIRATION TO THINK ABOUT HOW HOMERIC SUBBLAMETY ISN'T ABOUT FANCINESS.

IT'S ABOUT THIS VIVIDNESS IN EVOKING THE WORLD.

>> I SAW THE MOVIE, WHICH I REALLY LIKED, BUT IT'S BEEN CAUGHT UP IN THE CULTURE WARS.

BOTH YOUR TRANSLATION, NOW OF COURSE THE MOVIE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> I MEAN, HOMER HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CULTURE, ABOUT SOCIETY.

AND WHAT WE SAID BEFORE ABOUT HOW THIS IS A POEM THAT IS DRAWING ON VERY, VERY ANCIENT PREEXISTING MYTH, BUT ALSO ENGAGING WITH ITS OWN SOCIETY.

PEOPLE ALSO LOVE TO HAVE CULTURE WARS.

AND IN SOME WAYS, I WANT TO TRY TO CELEBRATE PEOPLE ARE COMING TOGETHER OVER THIS MOVIE AND OVER THIS POEM, EVEN IF THEY'RE COMING TOGETHER IN WAYS THAT SOMETIMES INVOLVE, IN MY OPINION, PRETTY SIMPLISTIC KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS.

AT LEAST THERE IS A COMMON CULTURAL BRAND FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT.

SO I'M TRYING TO TURN MY FROWN UPSIDE DOWN ABOUT CULTURE WARS.

BUT I THINK QUITE A BIT OF IT IS REALLY NOT BASED ON A VERY SERIOUS READING OF HOMER.

>> ONE OF THE THEMES IN THE MOVIE IS ZEUS' LAW, WHICH SEEMS TO BE CAUSING THE COMPLEXITIES TO THE EXTENT THEY'RE THERE IN THE MOVIE FOR ODYSSEUS.

I THINK THE WORD IN THE POEM IS ZANIA, WHICH IS MORE LIKE HOSPITALITY.

EXPLAIN TO ME WHETHER HOMER HAS ZEUS' LAW IN HIS EPIC POEM, AND HOW YOU WOULD DESCRIBE THE CONCEPT OF ZENIA, AS YOU'VE SEEN BOTH IN THE POEM AND IN THE MOVIE.

>> YES.

GREAT QUESTION.

SO ZANIA IN GREEK, THAT'S THE ABSTRACT NOUN, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GUESTS, HOSTS, STRANGERS, AND THEN THERE ARE NOUNS REFERRING TO AN ACTUAL STRANGER THAT COGNATE WITH THAT.

THAT WHOLE INSTITUTION OF ZENIA IN HOMER IS UNDERSTOOD TO BE RATIFIED AND BLESSED BY ZEUS.

ZEUS TAKES A PARTICULAR INTEREST IN THE NEEDS OF STRANGERS IN THOSE NOT RELATED TO EACH OTHER BY KIN.

"THE ODYSSEY" IN THE ORIGINAL IS ALL ABOUT EXPLORING THE --WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ZENIA TO GO RIGHT, AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ZENIA TO GO WRONG.

ODYSSEUS IN HIS WANDERINGS IS ENCOUNTERING ALL OF THESE BAD HOSTS, THE KIND OF HOSTS WHO EATS THE GUEST.

YOUR SUPPOSED TO GIVE THE GUEST FOOD.

THE KIND OF GUEST THAT DOESN'T LET THE GUEST GO, LIKE CALYPSO.

ZENIA IN ARCHAIC GREECE IS A WAY FOR MEN TO FORM LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIPS WITH EACH BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF KINSHIP.

SO AGAIN, IT RELATES TO THIS TIME PERIOD WHEN GREEKS WERE EXPANDING BEYOND THEIR OWN LITTLE VILLAGES TO HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT LIKE THEM, INCLUDING OTHER GREEKS, BUT ALSO INCLUDING NONGREEKS.

IN THE MOVIE, IT SEEMS TO BE VERY MUCH REINTERPRETED WITHIN --I MEAN, I WOULD SAY WITHIN THE NORMS OF AMERICAN IDEAS ABOUT CHARITY AND PHILANTHROPY.

SO IT'S ABOUT BEING KIND TO BEGGARS A AND THE POOR, WHO WE HAVE ALWAYS WITH US, AND ALSO ABOUT BEING NICE ABOUT WHO YOU GIVE GIFTS TO.

GIFT GIVING IS CERTAINLY A PART OF ZENIA.

BUT I DON'T THINK THE MOVIE HAS THAT SENSE ABOUT ZENIA IS ABOUT FORMING LASTING MULTIGENERATIONAL RELATIONSHIPS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT ZENIA, AND YOU TALK ABOUT BEING ABOUT FOREIGNERS, PEOPLE COMING FROM THE SEA.

AND THAT SEEMS TO RESONATE WITH SOME OF OUR ISSUES TODAY, WHICH IS HOW DO WE TREAT PEOPLE COME TO OUR HOME FROM THE SEA.

WHAT DUTIES DO THEY OWE US?

WHAT DANGERS DO THEY BRING US?

WHAT DUTIES DO WE OWE THEM?

DID THAT RESONATE WITH YOU AT ALL?

>> YES, I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY "THE ODYSSEY" IS HAVING A MOMENT IN THE 21st CENTURY IS THE FACT THAT IT IS THE ORIGINAL POEM IS SUCH CONCERNED WITH THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A GOOD HOST AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE A GOOD GUEST.

IT EXPLORES BOTH SIDES OF THESE COMPLEX POLITICAL SOCIAL QUESTIONS ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND ABOUT IMMIGRATION LAW, IMMIGRATION ATTITUDES TOWARDS IMMIGRANTS, AND TOWARDS THE MIGRATIONS OF PEOPLES FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

OF COURSE, IT FOCUSES ON ONE MAN WHO IS BOTH A GUEST AND A HOST.

AND "THE ODYSSEY" IS CONSTANTLY REMINDING US THAT IN MOST CASES, PEOPLE ARE NOT JUST ONE THING OR THE OTHER.

I THINK WE TURNED IN THE MOST SIMPLISTIC KINDS OF MODERN DISCOURSE TO SORT OF IMAGINE THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE ALWAYS THE HOST AND SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE ALWAYS THE GUEST OR THE STRANGER.

BUT OF COURSE ACTUALLY I THINK THE POEM IS MORE TRUTHFUL THAN THAT IN SO FAR AS IT SHOWS US HOW THE SAME PERSON CAN BE BOTH.

>> ONE OF THE LINES THAT HIT ME IN THE MOVIE IS "WE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM THE SEA. "

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE PEOPLE FROM THE SEA COMING IN, AND THEY REALIZE THAT, OH, IT'S US.

WE'RE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES IN SOME WAYS.

THE THREAT TO OUR SOCIETY COMES FROM WITHIN, NOT NECESSARILY FROM WITHOUT.

WE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM THE SEA.

AND THAT IN SOME WAYS SEEMS VERY RESONANT TODAY AS WELL.

DOES THAT PART OF WHAT HOMER IS TRYING TO SAY?

AND DO YOU FEEL THAT IN THE POEM?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, THAT HIT ME AS ONE OF THE MANY RELENTLESSLY - EXPOSITORY ELEMENTS.

I THINK IT'S REALLY A VERY INTERESTING ISSUE BOTH IN MODERN CULTURE AND ALSO IN THE POEM IN SO FAR AS ODYSSEUS IS PRESENTED AS A WARRIOR WHO IS COMING BACK FROM TROY HAVING SACKED THE HOLY CITADEL OF TROY, AS WE LEARN IN THOSE FIRST TWO LINES.

AND THEN WHEN HE COMES BACK TO ITHACA, ON SOME LEVEL, HE IS COMING BACK AS THE HUSBAND OF PENELOPE, THE FAR OF TELEMACHUS, THE HOUSEHOLDER, THE KING.

BUT IN THE FINAL MOMENTS OF THE POEM, HE COMES BACK AS A WARRIOR.

HE IS GOING TO START A WHOLE NEW WAR ON ITHACA.

SO IN SO FAR AS THE POEM MAY PARTLY LEAD US TO THINK MAYBE THIS IS A JOURNEY FROM WAR TO PEACE.

BUT MAYBE.

NO MAYBE IT'S A JOURNEY FROM WAR TO WAR.

>> EMILY WILSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

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