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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Welcome, I'm Steve Adubato.

This is an extraordinary, important panel discussion.

We're calling it Democracy at a Crossroads.

That's right.

There's an initiative that we've created in all of our series, Democracy at a Crossroads because we are, we're taping this at the end of 2020, we'll be seeing it in 2021.

Let me introduce this extraordinary panel.

Unlike any panel you'll ever see anywhere on broadcast television.

My good friend, longtime colleague, former co-anchor in Public Broadcasting, Karen Hunter, Pulitzer prize winning journalist and co host of the Karen Hunter show on SiriusXM.

Karen, what channel?

- 126 Urban View.

- [Steve] Just checking Urban View, that's three to six every day, 3:00 to 6:00 PM.

Jeanette Hoffman been with us many times, Republican strategist and president of Marathon Public Affairs.

Good to see you Jeanette.

- Thanks for having me, Steve.

Great to see you.

You got it, our media colleague and friend and our partner at Insider NJ is Pete Oneglia, who is general manager and co-founder at Insider NJ.

Check them out, and also Dr. Ben Dworkin director of the Rowan Institute for Public Policy and Citizenship.

We're gonna have their websites throughout this program so you can find out more.

Hey, I say Democracy at a Crossroads.

Karen Hunter, too dramatic, are we at a crossroads or is it Steve Adubato coming up with hyperbole?

- Well, it's probably a little bit of both, but.

(panelists laughing) I would question whether we ever had a democracy.

So the crossroads I think, has been revealed.

So what has happened is revelation more than, Oh we're at a crossroads.

We've always been at a crossroads.

America was founded in hypocrisy and now chickens have come home to roost.

- Well, listen, now you're gonna quote Malcolm X and that's a whole... - Yes I did - Listen, we'll have that separate discussion but you know what?

Maybe it is not separate, because Ben Dworkin, let me ask you this, Ms. Hunter says, "Hey, we've always been at a crossroads."

My question is, after the Trump presidency, is the crossroads, is the divide, and the challenge that democracy face, faces greater than ever.

- Well, certainly I think more greater than we've seen in recent memory.

And that is why it's such a tremendous challenge for American citizens right now.

What we've really seen is that things that we counted on, we now understand we're simply norms.

We're just accepted behavior that we expected of our leaders.

And if you went ahead and said you know what, there's no law.

I'm just gonna do something different.

That's where we suddenly, whoa.

We thought this was more stable than it actually is.

- So I may ask you Jeanette, you've been a lifelong Republican you're Republican analyst.

You you've worked with Republicans and campaigns but you've always been civil.

You've always conducted yourself in a certain way.

And civil discourse is your calling card.

Question, to what degree do you believe the Trump presidency has impacted democracy, representative democracy in the sense that we're just not civil to each other anymore.

We call each other names.

We demonize each other.

We question people's Americanism.

Whether, you're a socialist, you're not really American.

You're a communist.

You're a right wing nut job.

Long-winded question to get to this.

Where the heck, is the place for us to have civil discourse in a post-Trump presidency in our country?

- I think that day has passed Steve, I mean, look, I hope most Americans will see the value in civil discourse.

But look, I look on social media and I mean, it's exploding.

You look at what's happening in the streets to our elected officials who can't even go to a restaurant without getting harassed.

I mean, I think it's a function of frustrations of social media, of how partisan we've become and the echo chamber in which we choose our media.

We don't listen to different thoughts.

We don't listen to different opinions.

If you're on the right, you pick right wing media to listen, if you're on the left, you pick, you know, left wing media to listen to.

- Because?

And I think that's unfortunate.

Because we want to listen to the echo chamber.

We want to reinforce what we already believe instead of challenging different opinions.

- So Pete, let me ask you, by the way, Insider NJ, one of our media partners you'll see their information there.

- Pete, you you're, you're into the, your your media organization, ours, your platform, our platform.

We don't have a horse in the race and I'm not saying, look at us, we're great.

I'm saying we actually don't have a horse in this race.

We're trying to present factual information so people can decide for themselves.

Jeanette's saying, people just go to people in the media that tell them what they want to hear.

Is she accurate about that?

- Yeah, to an extent, I think she's accurate.

I think everybody brings up great points.

If democracy is always at a crossroads and maybe now we're kind at the nadir in terms of political discourse.

I think the reality of it comes down to there's a real lack of just basic civics understanding and civics respect in this country and the breakdown of you know, respectful political discourse.

There's no lines to be crossed anymore.

In fact, you know, for years, people made a lot of money and got famous, you know, crossing those lines, then moving them.

And now we can't even see where the line of respect is anymore.

- But people would say, how could we elect somebody who is so bombastic?

And the truth is, society we become the reality TV culture over the years.

And it was only a matter of time before we elected the reality TV president.

You know, we're always searching for entertainment and stimulation.

And now we look for it, in just the basic news and now from our politics and our government.

- But Karen Hunter it's not a joke.

I'm sorry, Pete finish your point because it's not an entertainment a reality show for diversion.

This is our government and Donald Trump was the president and I'm not here to trash him, but the institutions of the judiciary, Congress, a way elections are run.

Half the people I talked to, are like, that's all a bunch of BS.

I can't, I don't trust the election.

If that's the outcome of this, where's the silver lining Pete?

- Maybe the time maybe that time has passed to Jeanette's point.

It took years to get to where we are now.

Trump, Trump may not be the cause of everything.

He's certainly a symptom of... - He's not.

- A larger problem.

So it's going to take years to get back to any sense of normal, you know, respectful political discourse.

It's not just going to take a day or a new inauguration of a new president.

You know, people are so ingrained with, with, how they're interpreting news and how they're viewing politics.

And it's going to take a long time to dig out from underneath it.

- Let me do this, Karen, let me come back to you because your show, which I mean, I absolutely love it.

It is must listening to, I've been honored to be with Karen in her studio and remotely.

She has an audience, a huge audience.

It's disproportionately urban, African-American but they're all kinds of folks.

But Karen, you're not simply talking to those folks.

You are trying to talk to everyone or do I have that wrong?

- 30% of our listeners are so-called white.

We have all of these constructs, urban, white.

Al right, and I think that that is the crux of the problem in this country is that we've divided ourselves to the point where we can't come together.

It's not the United States.

What I attempt to do every day is to talk to human beings.

People who have humanity, who wants to see a world that they want to live in, a world that they want to raise their children in, a world that, that makes sense for them.

So I bring to the table guests.

And we have topics that I hope make people think more about themselves and what they can do to contribute as opposed to it being this, you know, I don't do the left right thing.

I don't even know what that means because most of us, - I don'’t either.

- most of us can't even tell you what it means to be a Republican or a Democrat today.

So, so what is that?

But, but we're wedded to it as if it's religion and it is religion.

And that's part of the problem too, because it all bleeds over.

And we can't find our way to humanity, which most of us in this room have more in common than we have differences.

So that's... - Hold on Karen, before I go to other guests, you started out by saying we were never really a democracy and you've always been a positive, upbeat, glass half full colleague of mine.

And now I'm not hearing that from you.

What am I missing?

- When I looked at 74 million Americans thought that what happened the last four years was something to do again.

And 55% of white women up the ante went from 53% to 55%.

I realized that this country, the, the founding Principle, which was rooted in bondage, in genocide and all of these things that built the great economy that we have now.

Even you talk about the electoral college, rooted in slavery, three-fifths compromise.

That that electoral college, even that was rooted in bondage.

It's hard to, to come together, when we never dealt with the original foundation of this great democracy of ours.

So, you know, I don't know that we have one.

- So that's 74 million Americans voting for Donald Trump for you, cause you to believe as I go to Jeanette again, "Hey, wait a minute, "do we really even want a quote unquote, "representative democracy?"

That's your question right now, correct?

- Yes.

Jeanette, please, because many, listen, I don't know who you voted for, I'm not going to ask you.

You've been critical of the president but you are a solid Republican.

The vast majority of your colleagues or your Republican colleagues and independence and some Democrats voted for Donald Trump, 74 million.

Karen Hunter saying that scares the heck out of her.

What does it say to you?

- Well, here's what Donald Trump portrays and what, you know we can get behind.

We can get into a huge discussion about the problems with the electoral college and the systemic problems with our democracy.

That's a whole another show, but here is what Donald Trump successfully conveys to the people who voted for him.

- Conveys or conveyed?

- Conveyed.

- Past tense 'cos he's not the president moving forward.

- And I'll make the argument that he is going to try and run again, or is going to say he's going to run again because he's still hugely popular.

- Got it.

- Trust of the system.

So many Americans feel disenfranchised by our political system.

And he's someone who says, throw out all the politicians out, throw out the establishment.

I want to represent you the people, right?

He distrusts the media.

You know, a lot of Americans just felt fed up with the system.

They fell that felt that the political system under Hillary Clinton and under all these establishment politicians, they didn't represent them.

And I'll tell you, Bernie Sanders also had that same for the people populous movement.

It had nothing to do with ideology.

And that's what Trump represents what he represented in this last election.

It had nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats.

- Okay, but here's the thing that confuses me, for the people, I'm for the regular person.

I'm not like these other politicians.

But then, Dr. Dworkin, the Corona virus hits in March of 2020.

The president is like, these masks are ridiculous mocks Biden for wearing them.

You know?

And I got over it.

I'm Superman, whatever went on there, who knows.

As if everyone got the same treatment he did.

So Jeanatte is saying, he's speaking directly to the average person.

Then I sit there and watch these Trump rallies, pre and post election going, wait a minute, if you really cared about those people would you have them crammed together with no mask?

Am I mixing metaphors here Ben?

- There's a lot going on here.

And so to try and sum it up, we have to draw from what everyone has said.

Yes, there are people who have a different view of reality simply because they're listening to podcasts and news shows that give them a specific view and don't give them an alternative of... - But Ben facts are facts.

I'm not talking about opinion.

- Of course, facts are facts.

- Facts are facts, the coronavirus will kill you.

It's killed as we do this program it's getting close to 300,000.

That's not an opinion.

That's a fact, a mask is a fact.

No?

- Of course it is.

And I think that that's one of the reasons why you saw 81 million people support a change in the president.

In who's going to be our president because facts are facts but you have to be delivered the facts.

And if you're listening to an alternative facts do you use Kellyanne Conway's term, then you are stuck in a the bubble that Jeanette referenced and in a situation where we are so divided.

I think Karen's point about the micro-targeting of America the splitting up of every little segment into different things which is what campaigns have decided this is the way to build your coalition.

This means you find the people who don't... only believe in your facts.

- What does that mean for democracy?

If you're just speaking to the people, who are called your people?

Go ahead.

- No, its a huge challenge for democracy, and for the ideals of democracy and trying to continue to build a democracy that takes in the voices of everybody.

We're over 300 million people in this country.

And there are many of them as Jeanette, I think a Jeanette appropriately pointed out.

There are many of them who feel completely left out of the system.

And that's why they're groups like ours.

And they're, you know, shows like this.

And there are any number of people of goodwill, who are trying to educate and to get people into some common sense of community and citizenship.

- Pete, let me ask you, the role of the media for us and we're public broadcasting.

Karen has her show.

You do what you do at Insider.

If we are only communicating to those who are a sliver of an audience, and Karen said, her audience is more diverse.

I get it, she's right.

But if Fox, Newsmax, MSNBC, CNN, OAN, if everyone has their sliver and everyone goes to their place, how do we in public broadcasting, and this isn't a philosophical question, it's real.

How do we challenge people and say, that's what you may think, but here's some other information to consider or are we just blowing into the wind that's smashing up against us?

Pete.

- Well, the first challenge, even before delving into that, is ensuring that there is an actual independent non-biased media and in the country, to Jeanette's point about president Trump distrusting the media.

I think it goes a step further because he actively tries to erode trust in the media.

- Enemy of the people, We're the enemy, by the way.

- Right?

Every everything now, you know, fake news now to a lot of people is not news that's not based on facts, it's news that they don't like or that they don't agree with.

But at the same time we're seeing, you know, there are media conglomerates that are buying up a lot of a lot of locals, a lot of weekly newspapers, a lot of people are just going out of business.

I mean, you look at the Bergen Record.

They just had a number of layoffs.

So a lot of reporters are just trying to keep their jobs.

- And we in public broadcasting... - And trying to be able to, outside of having the resources to actually investigate and uncover the deep, dark truths that are in, certainly in in political states, like New Jersey and elsewhere.

And in federal government.

- Let's do this further and take a quick break.

When we come back, Here's the question I wanna ask, Joe Biden is the president.

As we do this program, it's the end of 2020.

I believe he, help me on the date Jeanette, is it the January 20th that is officially?

Thank you, Karen.

I see everyone nodding their head.

We will be seen then, before then and after then.

Let's talk about the Biden presidency and it's and the opportunity to Biden presidency.

Yes, we do not know what the Senate is going to look like.

We know the house is controlled by Democrats.

If this thing is going on amongst the American voters what goes on in Congress and are they as entrenched to get nothing done and be in their little corners?

And what does that mean for democracy with the Biden presidency?

We'll be back in just 30 seconds.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

Welcome back folks to this compelling and very thoughtful panel discussion Democracy at a Crossroads.

I'm going back to my colleague, Karen Hunter.

Karen, let me ask you Joe Biden, Biden the president.

Okay, what opportunity does he have to help our institutions of government be more responsible and effective, but or more importantly, create more faith and trust in American people?

- That's, I don't know if I can answer that question.

I have... - Try.

- All right, he has a tremendous opportunity, but it may goes to, to what professor Dworkin was saying.

You know, people have made choices, right?

People choose to not be informed.

We have more, I remember growing up I had World Book Encyclopedia.

My dad bought me a whole set some of you who could afford the Britannica and you know, we, I had... - (Steve)Hey hey hey hey.

- I'’m sorry, you know, we had to go to the library to get information.

Everything is at the tip of your finger.

Right now everyone has a cell phone.

Even if you don't have electricity, you have a cell phone, you can get information.

And yet we don't, we don't choose to be informed.

We don't choose to, to, to, to follow rabbit holes of you know, down rabbit holes to find facts.

We don't choose to live among people.

We don't choose to know people.

75% of white folk are self-segregated in this country.

- Self?

What do you mean self?

Meaning you live in places for whatever reason, taxes, schools, neighborhood you'll you'll tell yourself those things.

And you know, I had a friend on Reed Galen and Reed Galen is part of the project Lincoln thing.

And he's, you know, a good friend of the show.

And he was talking about, you know, diversity in the Republican party.

And I said, Reed, where do you live, "Utah?"

I said, "do you, is your neighborhood diverse?

"Is your school system diverse?

"Are your children?"

And he had to pause.

And he was like, no.

That's by choice, and most of the time, you're not even thinking about it but what impact does it have if the only people of color that you see in your life are gardeners or maids or people to take care of your kids.

You may have some dealings in school.

Maybe there's one black in your school but to have relationship means, I know you.

And when things happen, it impacts me as well.

We don't have that in this country.

And I think (indistinct) foundation.

- Karen finish your point, finish your point, - I just think that that's foundational.

So Joe Biden, in order for him to have impactful, you know, to have something that brings us together to, to to put forth legislation, legislation that, that, you know uplifts everyone, it, it's got to start with us making a choice that we want that, you can have an infrastructure plan that puts people to work but it's not going to cure this problem.

It's going to keep coming back.

'Cos there's somebody in here mentioned Trump is a symptom he's not the cause.

- So let me ask you, Jeanette, Karen Hunter is talking about the African-American community as disenfranchised as it's been for so long, Biden has a challenge there.

Biden also has a challenge with all those millions of Americans who are Trump supporters.

Now here's my question, Do you actually believe that we want to just separate?

Literally, whether we choose to say it, whether it's it's more subtle, but we rather just be in our own worlds and talk to the people who look like us, believe in us.

By the way, for me, I will say this, Karen, I live in Montclair as, as, as you know and it's a pretty diverse community, but I will say this, A high percentage of my friends.

And I said this to Karen on her show, voted for Donald Trump.

Not only voted for him, one of my good friends.

I'm not gonna say who you are.

I love that, I love Donald Trump, he says.

You love him?

Yup.

As I named some things, he, what he said about women.

Nope, nope, fake news.

And this is a very smart lawyer.

Well-educated guy, grew up in my neighborhood.

Here's my point.

And here's my question, Jeanette.

Even those of us who happened to be white Karen says we separate, we self-separate.

Then there's a separation among people based on political ideology to the point where we can't even talk to our lifelong friends because it's so polarized and emotional and it's not based on anything that makes any sense to me, help me, Karen.

I mean, help me on this Jeanette, but you face that as well with your so-called democratic friends.

'Cos you've never been a big hardcore Trump supporter.

- Well, I would say look, in some cases, that is absolutely true because like social media, I think social media is you know, one of the biggest evils out there right now in terms of separating people.

But look, I'm married to a hardcore Democrat and... - Could you please plug your husband who (laughing) tell them who he is.

- Yeah, Joshua Henne.

Look he's a Democrat.

He's pretty liberal.

He's president White Horse Strategies.

We have our discussions and listen, we don't agree on a lot.

Sometimes we do.

Sometimes we don't, but look, you know, there's a time and place for everything and sometimes you just gotta leave it there when you can't agree.

But I think it's important to listen to all sides and you know, not just listen to your own bubble and your own echo chamber.

Because there are different opinions out there.

And you know, the media that you listen to 24/7 when we talk about self selecting what you're going to listen to.

Doesn't present all sides, right?

And we talk about the different narratives out there.

When it comes to Joe Biden, I think, look, the character traits that he ran on on being someone who can bring people together.

That is going to be very important when he gets inaugurated and bringing the house together.

Look, Nancy... - A few seconds, do you think he can Jeanette?

- Yes, I think he can.

Hey look, Nancy Pelosi didn't win by a huge mandate.

She lost seats, a number of house Republicans won.

More House Republican women in 2021 are coming in.

They need to pass PPP.

They need to get funding moving again.

They need to address COVID.

So I think he's got a tall order in bringing the house together - Real quick got a minute left.

Ben and I'm coming to you, Pete.

Ben, the challenge for president Biden to quote bring us together at least to some degree.

Go ahead.

- It's gonna start with tone.

It's gonna start with attitude.

It's gonna start by not going on Twitter.

I mean, I think there's certain things simply by not being Trump and doing the things that Trump did.

He is not gonna insult people directly.

The way we saw the president do, he's not going to be on Twitter at two o'clock or four o'clock in the morning, doing, sending... - Let's not blame all that problem on Trump though.

- No, it's not, but the question is, can Biden bring back some kind of sense of comity to, to American politics - Not comedy, comity meaning being able to talk to each other, go ahead.

- Exactly, being able to talk to each other.

So yes, I think it's just going to start with personal behavior.

I think we're also going to see the members of Congress who I think by and large, unless they're running for president and not everybody is.

So the rest of them, want to try and get stuff done.

That's partially why they're there.

And I think in a different atmosphere, we might find things to move on that would actually see that this could be a progressive meaning accomplish-filled couple of years.

- Good, hey, hey, few seconds left, Pete.

Give us, give us something positive to end Democracy at a Crossroads.

Pete Oneglia from Insider NJ, go ahead.

- Despite some of the lessons where we're learning about the election.

One of which, you know, Trumpism and looks like it is here to stay in some sort of some sort of iteration, depending on whatever soon to be ex president Trump decides to do.

And God knows that Democrats have, you know, they have their own challenges as a party.

They didn't have best election night with the exception of the president's defeat, which again was mostly his doing.

- Few seconds Pete.

- It's really Trump's loss more than Biden's victory, but listen, it's the changing of the guard, even if we're going back to one of the older statesman but maybe that's what the nation needs right now.

So yeah, there's cause for a lot of optimism.

- Hey, thank you, Pete.

Thank you, Ben.

Jeanette, Karen.

Thank all of you.

I'm Steve Adubato Democracy at a Crossroads.

I promise we'll continue this discussion.

Thank you so much for watching.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Holy Name Medical Center.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

NJM Insurance Group.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Operating Engineers, local 825.

Valley Bank.

IBEW Local 102.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

And by NJ Best, New Jersey's 529 college savings plan.

Promotional support provided by Jaffe Communications.

And by NJ on Air.

- Data shows that many patients have avoided seeking critical health care in the wake of COVID-19 for fear of contracting the virus.

Delaying medical care can have serious consequences, so you should never second guess or ignore your symptoms.

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