>>> UP NEXT, AMERICA'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE FACING A CRISIS.

ENROLLMENT HAS PLUMMETED WITH AROUND A MILLION FAMILIES OPTING FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR HOMESCHOOLING.

THE RESULT, CLOSURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IT'S PREDOMINANTLY IMPACTING BLACK AND LATINO COMMUNITIES.

ALEC MacGILLIS JOINS US TO DISCUSS HIS LATEST ARTICLE FOR "THE NEW YORKER," THE DEATH OF SCHOOL 10 AND THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN PUBLIC EDUCATION.

>> THANKS.

ALEC, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

YOUR STORY FOCUSES ON SCHOOL 10 IN ROCHESTER.

WHY SCHOOL 10?

WHY ROCHESTER?

>> I WANTED TO LOOK INTO THIS PROBLEM I WAS HEARING ABOUT.

THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT PLUNGED SINCE THE PANDEMIC, DONE BY ABOUT A MILLION STUDENTS NATIONWIDE.

THIS CAUSES A CHALLENGE FOR CITIES THAT HAVE LOTS OF EMPTY SCHOOLS.

I SAW THAT ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, WAS FACING ANTICIPATE ESPECIALLY STARK DROP.

THEY LOSS ABOUT 10% OF THEIR STUDENTS SINCE 2019.

AS A RESULT, WERE HAVING TO THINK ABOUT CLOSING SCHOOLS.

HAD EMBARKED ON THAT PROCESS.

WERE INTO THIS PROCESS THAT OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE GOING TO BE FACING.

I WENT TO ROCHESTER A COUPLE TYPES TO REPORT ON WHAT THEY WERE DOING THERE AND HOW WRENCHING THIS PROCESS WAS GOING TO BE FOR THIS CITY AND FOR OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY AS THEY FACE THIS STEEP DROP IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> CONNECT THE DOTS.

WHAT WAS IT THAT PRECIPITATED THE DROP IN ENROLLMENT?

HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE BUDGET FOR THE SCHOOL CLOSURE?

>> IT'S STRAIGHTFORWARD.

WE CLOSE THE SCHOOLS FOR A LONG TIME IN LOTS OF DISTRICTS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

MANY CITIES STAYED CLOSE FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, UNTIL SEPTEMBER OF '21.

YOU JUST HAD A LOT OF FAMILIES THAT CHOSE TO LEAVE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS DURING THAT PERIOD.

THEY LEFT FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS, PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS, MANY OF WHICH STAYED OPEN.

THEY LEFT FOR HOMESCHOOLING.

EVEN AFTER SCHOOLS REOPENED, MANY OF THE DISTRICTS, WHEN FAMILIES CAME BACK AND SOME KIDS CAME BACK, THEY FOUND THAT THINGS WERE SO UNRULY, A LOT OF SCHOOLS ARE WRESTLING WITH CRAZY BEHAVIORS, KIDDING BEING UNSOCIALIZED.

FAMILIES MADE THE DECISION THAT THEY WERE GOING TO MOVE THEIR KIDS OUT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE HAD THIS UNPRECEDENTED DROP NATIONWIDE.

1 MILLION KIDS OFF OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL ROLL.

THAT LEAVES MANY CITIES WITH MORE SPACE, STAFF, BUILDINGS THAN THEY NEED.

THEY NEED TO CONSIDER THIS DIFFICULT UPHEAVAL THAT'S INVOLVED IN CLOSING SCHOOLS IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> IF ROCHESTER IS NOT ALONE, IF THIS IS A NATIONAL TREND OF PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT DECLINE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE IN OTHER CITIES WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ROCHESTER, THIS BELT TIGHTENING WHERE IF YOU HAVE BUILDING COSTS AND TEACHER COSTS, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE STUDENT CHECKS THAT COME IN WITH THEM, YOU WILL HAVE TO DO THIS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MY ARTICLE MENTIONED OTHER CITIES THAT ARE ALSO EMBARKING ON THIS.

IT'S NOT JUST CITIES THAT WE THINK OF AS BEING HEAVILY DISADVANTAGED LIKE ROCHESTER, NEW YORK.

WEALTHIER CITIES ARE GOING THROUGH THIS.

YOU SAW WHEREVER SCHOOLS STAYED CLOSED, YOU SAW -- YOU SEE THIS CHALLENGE BEING ACUTE.

SEATTLE IS FACING THE CLOSURE OF MANY OF ITS ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.

ANN ARBOR, MICHIGAN.

THEY LOST ABOUT 1,000 STUDENTS.

COLUMBUS, OHIO, IS LOOKING TO CLOSE A LOT OF SCHOOLS.

SANTA CLARA, CALIFORNIA, IN SILICON VALLEY, THEY FACED A HUGE DROP IN ENROLLMENT.

THIS IS HAPPENING IN LOTS OF PLACES.

BUT ESPECIALLY IN THE BLUE CITIES AND COUNTIES THAT HAD THEIR SCHOOLS CLOSED, ESPECIALLY LONG-TERM.

>> IF THE SCHOOLS ARE HAVING TO BE CLOSED, IS THERE A PATTERN ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF SCHOOLS GET CLOSED MORE OFTEN OR WHAT THE STUDENT POPULATION IS OF THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE MOST IMPACTED?

>> YES.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS.

TO THE EXTENT CLOSURES WERE LONG IN MANY CITIES, MANY HEAVILY BLACK AND BROWN AND LOW-INCOME DISTRICTS, AND IT IS THOSE DISTRICTS THAT ARE HAVING TO CLOSE SCHOOLS, YOU ARE SEEING BECAUSE OF THIS ENROLLMENT DECLINE, YOU SEE AN AFFECT IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

ON TOP OF THAT, THERE'S RESEARCH THAT HAS SHOWN EVEN IN PRIOR YEARS, WHEN DISTRICTS SET OUT TO CLOSE SCHOOLS BECAUSE OF UNDER ENROLLMENT, THAT FALLS ON BLACK AND BROWN SCHOOLS, BEYOND WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT FROM ENROLLMENT NUMBERS AND PERFORMANCE NUMBERS.

IT SEEMS TO CUT THAT WAY.

IT SEEMS TO BE THE WAY THAT DISTRICTS END UP CLOSING SCHOOLS.

THE RESEARCH ALSO SHOWS THAT KIDS WHOSE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN CLOSED, WHO HAVE TO MOVE TO OTHER SCHOOLS, THAT THAT HAS A CONSEQUENCE -- A LASTING CONSEQUENCE ON THEIR ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A MISTAKE TO CLOSE THE SCHOOLS.

IN MANY CASES IT'S UNAFFORDABLE.

IF YOUR NUMBERS ARE SO LOW, IT'S HARD TO JUSTIFY KEEPING SCHOOLS OPEN.

IT DOES HAVE A LASTING CONSEQUENCE ON THE KIDS WHOSE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN CLOSED.

>> YOU TAKE THE READER THROUGH THIS STORY WITH THE HELP OF A COUPLE OF CHARACTERS.

ONE IS A MOM WHO SOUNDS AMAZING.

TELL US ABOUT HER.

>> I DECIDED TO FOCUS ON HER BECAUSE SHE WAS ESPECIALLY COMMITTED TO TRYING TO KEEP HER SCHOOL OPEN.

A SCHOOL CALLED SCHOOL 10.

IT'S IN A REALLY LOVELY SORT OF WORKING CLASS, MIDDLE CLASS, MAJORITY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD IN SOUTHWEST ROCHESTER.

IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S A BEAUIFUL OLD SCHOOL BUILT IN 1916.

TTACHED TO IT.

IT'S A WARM, WELCOMING SCHOOL.

IT HAS HAD CHALLENGES WITH TEST SCHOOLS, LIKE MANY SCHOOLS IN ROCHESTER.

IT'S BELOVED.

WHEN IT ENDED UP ON THE LIST TO BE CLOSED, THERE WAS AN UPROAR.

THE MOTHER BECAME VERY ENGAGED IN TRYING TO SAVE THE SCHOOL.

IT WAS MORE PAINFUL BECAUSE THE SCHOOL WAS NOT -- THE BUILDING WAS NOT GOING TO BE CLOSED.

SCHOOL 10 WAS SHUT DOWN BUT THE PUBLIC WAS USED FOR A PUBLIC MONTESSORI PROGRAM THAT HAD A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC THAN SCHOOL 10.

IT WAS VERY PAINFUL.

SHE WAS ENGAGED FOR MONTHS IN TRYING TO KEEP THE SCHOOL OPEN AND WAS NOT ABLE TO.

SHE WAS ELOQUENT IN TALKING ABOUT HOW WRENCHING THIS PROCESS IS FOR FAMILIES LIKE HERS.

>> WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT EVEN IF THIS SCHOOL THAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT DIDN'T KIND OF MEASURE UP ON TEST SCORES OR WHATEVER IT IS THE THRESHOLDS WERE, IT SEEMS THERE WAS A SENSE OF COMMUNITY HERE.

THAT PEOPLE STILL -- A SCHOOL DID BRING THESE FAMILIES TOGETHER.

>> YEAH.

IT WAS SO CLEAR.

I SPENT THE LAST COUPLE DAYS OF THE SCHOOL YEAR THERE IN LATE JUNE.

GOT TO SEE VARIOUS CEREMONIES THAT THEY WERE HOLDING.

IT WAS SO POIGNANT AND REALLY AFFECTING TO SEE JUST HOW STRONGLY STUDENTS, KIDS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE REACTING TO THE END OF THIS PARTICULAR SCHOOL.

THEY HAD A BIG CEREMONY IN THE GYM AUDITORIUM WHERE THE PRINCIPAL WAS CALLING UP EVERY EDUCATOR, EVERY TEACHER, EVERY AIDE, EVERY STAFFER BY NAME.

THE KIDS JUST SHRIEKING WITH JOY AND GRATITUDE.

YOU COULD TELL WHO WAS MOST BELOVED.

IT WAS A REMINDER THAT EVEN A SCHOOL LIKE THIS THAT HAD BY SOME METRICS SUBPAR SCHOOLS WAS STILL A BELOVED PLACE AND WAS A VERY IMPORTANT INSTITUTION.

THAT WAS GOING TO BE LOST.

JUST LIKE IN MANY OTHER PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY HAVE TO CLOSE DOORS.

>> I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE -- I THINK IT WAS CHRISSY MILLER, THE PARENT OF A SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD.

WHAT HAPPENS TO KIDS LIKE HERS?

>> YOU HAVE CITIES THAT HAVE -- AS THE ENROLLMENT DECLINED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, NOT THE SAME SPEED AS RECENTLY.

THIS DISTRICT YOU SEE A LOT OF FAMILIES LEAVING FOR SUBURBS, LEAVING FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS.

THE DISTRICT -- THE KIDS THAT REMAIN ARE VERY DISPROPORTIONALLY HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS.

YOU HAVE A HIGH SPECIAL NEEDS POPULATION.

FOR THESE KIDS, THESE CLOSURES WERE ESPECIALLY PAINFUL, DIFFICULT.

THEY ARE USED TO ROUTINES.

THE STABILITY, THE RELIABILITY OF THEIR EDUCATORS AND THEIR FELLOW CLASSMATES MEANS SO MUCH TO THEM.

THERE WAS THIS PLEA COMING OUT FROM THOSE PARENTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE KIDS AND THEIR EDUCATORS TOGETHER AS THE SCHOOL REMAINS AND WAS BEING SHUT DOWN.

IT WAS VERY HARD FOR THE DISTRICT TO DO THAT WHEN IT CAME TIME TO MAKE ASSIGNMENT.

A LOT OF THE PARENTS LEAVE FOR HOMESCHOOLING OR MOVE ELSEWHERE.

THAT'S GOING TO FURTHER EXACERBATE THE FALLING ENROLLMENT.

>> YOU WRITE ABOUT A PROGRAM THAT ROCHESTER HAS.

IS THAT UNIQUE?

IS THAT CONTRIBUTING TO ALMOST URBAN FLIGHT?

>> ROCHESTER HAS -- YEARS AGO THEY SET UP A PROGRAM THAT WAS INTENDED TO INCREASE MOVEMENT BETWEEN SUBURBS AND THE CITY SO IT'S EASIER TO MOVE ACROSS LINES.

OVER THE YEARS, NOT SURPRISINGLY, MOST MOVEMENT HAS GONE TO THE SUBURBS.

KIDS IN THE CITY CAN APPLY TO GO TO SUBURBAN SCHOOLS AND THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT TO TAKE.

THAT'S PULLING SOME OF THE MOST ENGAGEDD KIDS OUT OF THE CITY SCHOOLS.

YOU HAVE DYNAMICS THAT MADE TOUGH FOR URBAN SCHOOLS.

NOW THE PANDEMIC CLOSURES AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT HAVE JUST WILDLY EXACERBATED THIS PRE-EXISTING TREND.

IN SOME CITIES, YOU START TO WONDER, IS THIS INSTITUTION GOING TO SURVIVE?

ROCHESTER NOW, MORE THAN HALF OF THE KIDS BORN IN ROCHESTER, ARE EXPECTED TO ATTEND DISTRICT SCHOOLS.

AT WHAT POINT DOES THE SYSTEM GET SO SMALL THAT IT'S HARD TO SUSTAIN ITSELF?

>> THERE'S A STUDY OUT BY A GROUP CALLED LEARNING COUNCIL THAT PREDICTED PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SET TO LOSE 16 MILLION ENROLLMENTS BY 2030.

THAT'S JUST SIX YEARS AWAY.

BY THAT TIME, PUBLIC SCHOOLING IS PREDICTED TO BE AT OR JUST ABOVE 50% OF THE MARKET.

WHERE ARE THE GROWTH RATES HERE?

IS IT AUTOMATICALLY GOING FROM PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PRIVATE SCHOOL?

HOW MUCH IS HOMESCHOOLING INCREASING?

>> IT'S BOTH OF THOSE.

YOU HAVE A HUGE MOVEMENT TO HOMESCHOOLING SINCE THE START OF THE PANDEMIC.

THE CONCERN THERE IS THAT IN SO MANY STATES, IT'S UNREGULATED.

IN SOME FAMILIES, IT CAN BE A VERY SERIOUS, SUBSTANTIVE THING WHERE THE FAMILY COMMITS ITSELF AND IT MAKES THE -- THE ASSIGNMENT MAKES SENSE.

IN OTHER CASES, UNFORTUNATELY, HOMESCHOOLING CAN REALLY LOOK NOT ALL THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN TRUANCY.

THERE'S NOT A LOT GOING ON.

WE HAVE LITTLE WAY OF KNOWING WHAT'S HAPPENING.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE SEEING A BOOM IN MANY STATES, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE EXPANSION IN SCHOOL VOUCHERS THAT WE SEE IN MANY MOSTLY RED AND PURPLE STATES WHERE VOUCHERS HAVE BECOME UNIVERSAL.

IT USED TO BE THEY WERE TARGETED TOWARD LOWER INCOME KIDS IN DISADVANTAGED SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

NOW THEY ARE AVAILABLE IN A DOZEN STATES, TO ANY FAMILY, REGARDLESS OF INCOME, REGARDLESS WHERE THEY ARE IN THE STATE.

>> HOW MUCH DOES POLITICS PLAY INTO THIS?

WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION IN A HEATED ELECTION CYCLE.

EVEN THOUGH THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS DISTANCED HIMSELF FROM PROJECT 2025.

ONE OF THE PLANS THAT THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION LAID OUT WAS AN EVISCERATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

>> THE PROJECT 2025 PLANS FOR EDUCATION COULD HAVE SOME REAL IMPACT.

THERE'S PLENTY OF FUNDING THAT COMES FROM THE FEDS TO SCHOOLS, ESPECIALLY MONEY INTENDED FOR LOWER INCOME SCHOOLS.

MOST OF THE EDUCATION FUNDING AND POLICY SETTING IN THIS COUNTRY HAPPENS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

THAT'S WHY YOU ARE SEEING WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AROUND THE COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE THE ENROLLMENT DROP, ESPECIALLY IN STATES THAT KEPT THEIR SCHOOLS CLOSED A LONG TIME.

YOU HAVE GOT THE VOUCHER MONEY FLOWING IN STATE.

IT REALLY IS -- THAT'S WHERE THE REAL ACTION IS AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

THIS ENROLLMENT DECLINE IS HAPPENING MOST OF ALL IN THE BLUE STATES THAT KEPT SCHOOLS CLOSED FOR SO LONG.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN THIS PARTICULAR DYNAMIC.

IT'S NOT REALLY SOMETHING THAT'S -- IT'S NOT DRIVEN BY THE CONSERVATIVE THINK TANKS HOPING TO UNDERMINE PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR YEARS.

IT IN SOME SENSE HAPPENED AT THE VOLITION OF THE BLUE STATE AND CITIES THEMSELVES.

>> HOW DO YOU -- YOU HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF THE PARENTS.

IS THERE A WAY TO STOP THE SPIRAL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS THE TIPPING POINT THAT THIS ARTICLE IS WARNING ABOUT.

TO STOP THAT, TO ARREST THAT CYCLE, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A RECOGNITION BY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE IMPORTANT AND FOUNDATIONAL IN OUR COUNTRY TO RECOGNIZE THE EXTENT OF THE CRISIS RIGHT NOW AND TO RECOGNIZE WHAT HAPPENED COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC AND TO BE HONEST ABOUT THAT AND TO REALLY SOMEHOW JUST CONFRONT IT DIRECTLY AND TRY TO AT LEAST SLOW OR POSSIBLY REVERSE SOME OF THE TRENDS.

IT IS THE CHANCE OF THAT KIND OF SPIRAL.

>> I WONDER HOW MUCH IS ALSO AN ISSUE OF PUBLIC PERCEPTION.

THERE WAS A STUDY OUT BY PEW THAT SHOWED JUST OVER HALF OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH FAITH IN THE INSTITUTION OF K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION.

IT'S MORE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE THAN THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

HOW DO YOU REBUILD THAT TRUST?

>> IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I SPOKE ABOUT WITH THE HEAD OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS BACK IN SEPTEMBER OF 2020 WHEN I WAS REPORTING ON THE SCHOOL CLOSURES AND WHEN IT WAS BECOMING CLEAR THE SCHOOLS WERE NOT GOING TO BE REOPENING THAT FALL.

ESPECIALLY IN HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC AREAS.

I PUT THE QUESTION TO HER, ARE YOU WORRIED AS SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AS SOMEONE -- THE EDUCATORS WHO ARE IN YOUR UNION, THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON THIS INSTITUTION.

ARE YOU WORRIED A LOT OF FAMILIES ARE NOT GOING TO COME BACK AND THAT YOU WILL LOSE SUPPORT FROM TAXPAYERS AFTER THE CLOSURES?

SHE EXPRESSED CONFIDENCE THAT THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

IT WAS CLEAR THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR COUNTRY, OF COMMUNITIES THAT THEY WOULD SURVIVE THIS HIATUS.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THAT THAT MAY HAVE PROVED OVER OPTIMISTIC.

>> ALEC MacGILLIS, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> REMEMBERING A GIANT OF THE STAGE AND SCREEN.

>> EVERYTHING THE LIGHT TOUCHES IS OUR KINGDOM.

>> WOW.

>> THAT IS THE VOICE OF ICONIC ACTOR JAMES EARL JONES WHO DIED ON MONDAY AT THE AGE OF 93.

FROM MUFASA TO DARTH VADER, UNKNOWN FOR VOICING LEGENDARY CHARACTERS.

SOME AUDIENCES MIGHT RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE MAN BEHIND THESE ICONIC THREE WORDS.

>> THIS IS CNN.

>> NOW, WE WILL END ON A REFLECTION FROM THE ACTOR HIMSELF, JUST AS HE WON THE HONORARY LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD AT THE 2011 OSCARS.

>> I READ SOMETHING THIS MORNING ABOUT SOMEONE WISHING TO NOT BEING ABLE TO CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND IN THE WORLD, TO CHANGE THEIR HEARTS.

I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT AN ACTOR LOOKS OUT OVER THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE THAT HE CAN HOPE FOR.

YOU HAVE TO REALLY FOCUS ON THAT AND NOT THE STORIES BUT THE HEARTBEAT OF THE STORY.

HOPE TO CONNECT WITH THE HEARTBEAT OF THE AUDIENCE.

>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO." ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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