(upbeat music) - Welcome to "Forum 360".

Thank you for joining us for our global outlook with a local view.

This is Leslie Unger, your host today.

Every few years on "Forum 360", we turn our attention to Israel, the country slightly smaller than New Jersey.

The only democracy in the Middle East, a country with no oil, but a country that is given the world, Waze, voicemail, instant messaging, the defibrillator, and the phone chip.

You could divide life in Israel to before and after October 7th, 2023.

Just as in many ways you can divide our life in the United States to before and after 9/11, Before October 7th, this country established in 1948 was called the Silicone Valley of the Mediterranean.

And third, only to the United States and Canada, in terms of the number of companies listed on the Nasdaq.

After October 7th, this country is fighting for its life, literally, and in the world of public opinion.

Liat Arditi-Zarouk joins us today from her home outside of Jerusalem to help us put a face on the ongoing challenges in this country.

So, first I have to say welcome and thank you for coming seven hours ahead of where we are in the United States.

- Thank you for having me.

- Of course.

You grew up in Ashkelon, correct?

A city on the Mediterranean coast of Israel.

Even though Israel has never really been at peace in your lifetime, there have been times of less fighting.

So, can you first give us an idea I think a lot of people in the States only think of Israel as in wartime.

Can you give us an idea of what it was like growing up in this beach side city of Ashkelon?

- Yeah, sure.

So, I was born and raised in Ashkelon and like you probably heard the name of this city, 'cause there were a lot of rockets going on there.

It's like 20 kilometers from Gaza right now.

But when I grew up, it was a lovely city.

We just were free and we went outside till it was dark and our moms call us from the windows, "Come up for dinner."

So, the kids were just like running outside after school.

And we had a very good, like I had a great childhood.

I was part of a youth program, so I was a counselor as well.

And then at the age of 18 I joined the Army.

So, like every person gets a Jewish person going to get to the age of 18 joining the Army.

I know that for some people it's like strange, but for Israeli people it's like this is the normal path, like going to college for Americans.

So, I joined the Army, I was like a social worker working with soldiers that needs help at home, visiting houses, help them with budget, if they need more money or they used to work before they joined the Army.

So, the IDF is helping them.

So, it was really something that I liked to do and I felt that I grew up a lot and I got more mature.

- Before you go on, can you tell us, because anyone that I've met in Israel looks forward to going into the IDF.

Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, how that is so much a part of a 18-year-old's life, whether it's for the social, for the obligation, but they look forward to it.

Can you tell us a little bit about why and what that's like?

- Yeah, so like as I said for like the only equivalent for American will be going to college as a young American girl or boy, like raising up, they know that when they'll get to age of 18, they will go to college.

It's the same thing for Israelis.

Like we are looking forward for that.

Most of the people are going to the IDF when they're getting to the age of 18.

It's obligation, you have to, but you can find way to get out of it.

But most of the people are going.

And at the age of 16, you're starting like to be tested to get to the Army just for to check what kind of a position you will be in.

So, from the like 11th grade, 12th grade, you are already in the process to make sure that you're getting the right position in the IDF, and this is like kind of part of life.

It's not something that we're running out of, very natural for us.

- But now you're a mom, and you've got three children, and one of them is a year away from their service, correct?

- [Liat] Right.

- So, can you tell us a little bit, you know, parents in America do not grow up from the time their child is a baby knowing they're gonna serve.

There are those who volunteer, but they don't grow up knowing their children are going to go into service.

Can you tell us a little bit what that is like for bringing up your daughter and sons?

- Yeah, I have to say that I have a short story about my daughter.

She's an 18 and a half right now and she's gonna join the Army next August.

And when she was three years old, I explained to her that everyone in Israel is going to the Army at the age of 18.

And she was like, "Mom, I don't wanna go to the Army.

I don't wanna die."

And this is such a, like a naive and like so like, yeah.

- [Leslie] Wow.

- And nowadays, when we hear the news and we hear that soldiers are going and they're fighting to defend Israel and defend the civilians in Israel, you can't stop thinking about it.

Of course, I don't know any mom that would like to send her children and like to die.

And I would like this future for my kids, but this is like part of our life and I can't say that I'm doing it easily, but this is what we are doing.

This is the only Jewish state in the world.

If you weren't protected, it won't be, like it's that simple.

So, I'm not saying that I would like my daughter to die in the Army, but I know that so many did and so many protect with their life on the civilians of Israel, especially these days.

Like we can speak about wars in the past and if it was right or wrong, or maybe we shouldn't be there or done that.

But for these days the IDF is actually protecting the civilians in Israel, so simple.

- On a kind of though a humorous note, again, I don't think Americans realize how small Israel is surrounded by countries that don't like it for the most part.

So, growing up you can't go to a neighboring country just the way that we can go to a neighboring state.

So, Israelis are known when they get out of their service, they're known for ending up all over the world, right?

Backpacking all over the world.

Can you tell us a little bit about, if you can remember back what it is like after you've done your service and you've basically lived your entire life in this smaller country.

What is that like to first get out of and see something besides Israel?

- Right, so I have to say that my first time going out of Israel was to Poland when I was 16.

I was send with a delegation of youth to visit Auschwitz and the camps.

And this is, I know that nowadays like people are going to Italy and Switzerland and like doing Paris and Euro Disney and stuff like that.

This was my first time going out of Israel to Auschwitz, which was like when I'm telling my kids this day that this is what was my first time they are laughing.

So, this was my first time and as you said, after my service at the IDF, the second thing that Israeli young people doing except joining the IDF is doing the big trip and some of them are traveling to India and some of them are traveling to South America.

I was chose to be a counselor in a Jewish camp, a summer camp in upstate New York, and after that I flew to South America.

I landed in Bolivia and traveled for three and a half month in Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador.

And it was a great adventure, because as you said, I didn't see anything else except Israel and Auschwitz, which is so, it was amazing.

And as Israel is really small, the civilians are staying very close.

So, you just like find enough more Israelis like you that traveling and you just create a group of Israelis and you traveling all over.

And people think that Israel is so big, 'cause so many Israelis all over the place.

But we are actually just like less than 8 million, 10 million, sorry.

So, but we are traveling in groups.

So, it seems that we are a lot of people.

- Now, let me ask you whether you were traveling then or you know, through your husband's work.

You've lived in different countries, wherever you are, when you say, I'm Israeli, or I'm from Israel, what's the reaction that you get most often?

- It depends, I lived in Turkey, Ankara, Turkey for four and a half years.

And over there we weren't supposed to say that we are from Israel, from like, the security of the embassy wouldn't let us say that we are from Israel.

Although when we felt comfortable with the people we were in with, so we shared and most of the people really like that.

They used to have a big soccer player from Israel playing for a Turkish team.

So, when we say Revivo, his name, people were like, "Oh my God, Revivo."

And like for they forget all the politics, all the like the other things.

- [Leslie] For sports, for soccer?

- Yeah, 'cause he was like a big star there.

So, this was our like code Revivo open the gate to smiles and like just see other people smiles.

And we lived in Italy and over there as well.

Like I think, I really think that when people get to know you, it doesn't really matter where you are from.

When they don't know you and maybe they heard some bad things about Israel, so they don't know you, but when they'll get to know you as a person, you are Israel for them so.

- Yes, you are.

And let me just add, there couldn't be a better ambassador for Israel than you.

Yeah.

Now, let's move to October 7th.

Let me first ask, you know, I was the first one up that morning and I turned on CNN and that's how I found out about it.

But how did you first hear about October 7th?

- Okay, so the day before October 7th was a big holiday for Israelis.

It was Sukkot Eve, and I was hosting here in my house, 18 people for my family.

As I said before, my family is from Ashkelon and I invited everyone to my house.

We had like 18 people doing barbecuing on the balcony.

It was great event.

And people left here at 9:00 PM, and the morning after was October 7.

I woke up at 07:30.

I just checked my WhatsApp group and I saw that my family in Ashkelon is saying, "Oh my God, those bombs, what happened to them today?

It's like too many alarms."

And I was saying to myself, "Oh, they're starting again."

Like another rockets, like another rounds of rocket, because we know that every few months we have another round.

But then I opened the news, 'cause I saw that I have a lot of pushups from the news and I'm like, oh my god, there was like a red title with "Israel is under attack".

And I woked up my husband that was asleep, 'cause it's Saturday morning, 07:30 in the morning, he was still asleep.

And I like showing him the phone, look what's happening.

And since then, we were on the TV.

I think the TV was open that day for 18 hours maybe trying to get any sense of what's going on.

Of course the, you know, everyone that hears someone is texting you, I heard this happen, I heard that happen.

And like you holding your head and you said, "No way, this is Israel, it can't be."

Like people can't be like slaughter inside of a party.

People like, they can't get into the kibbutz scene.

We have the IDF, we have like special electricity thing and fans and whatever.

No way that this is happening.

But by hour, like after a few hours we realized that this is nothing like we saw or knew before.

This is something new and nothing will be the same after this day.

- On that note, let me take a moment and reintroduce our topic.

We are looking at Israel today with Liat Arditi-Zarouk who is coming to us from outside of her Jerusalem in her home.

You know, we, of course, we heard about the music festival and we heard about the slaughtering in kibbutz, and we heard about the taking of hostages, but can you give us an idea of, you know, kibbutz is still somewhat of a foreign concept to people.

Can you give us an idea of what it is like when you hear about people living their life in a kibbutz and their home being invaded?

Can you give us an idea of what that is like?

- I wasn't there.

I heard a lot of stories about what happened and I have to say.

- Well, let me just interrupt you for a moment.

Let me go back to this.

Like, I know in the kibbutz they say that the houses have a safe room, okay?

I don't know if every house in Israel has a safe room, but are you familiar with, why do houses have to have a safe room?

- Since they have, well, as I said, every few months there is a rocket, round of rocket throwing to Israel.

There is like a ceasefire.

And then like after four or five months, there is another round of rocket for a few days again.

So, the only thing that can protect you from rockets is the safe room.

If you get in there, you close the door, and you are safe.

Even if the house will get bombed, nothing will happen to you.

Maybe the windows will break, maybe the wall of the houses will break, but the safe room will stay.

And we can see from the videos from that day that only the safe room was stayed from the house that was broken totally.

So, but kibbutz is the most peaceful, like imagine the most peaceful countryside like in the United States that you can imagine like just green grass and like very quiet, a lot of nature, a lot of agriculture.

Very, very peaceful place.

As the people there are saying, "It's like 99% heaven, 1% hell."

And the hell is the rocket rounds every other month, but it's 99% heaven.

- [Leslie] Heaven.

- That's how they are saying.

- Thank you, that kind of puts a face and an idea for us about a kibbutz.

When we hear about the hostages either taken to Gaza or hostages, you know, threatened to be taken to Gaza, you know, as you said, there's hundreds of stories and some of them are just beginning to come out.

You know, one of the attendees at the river festival or the music festival, you know, talked about, you know, she'd rather jump out of the truck than be taken, you know, as a hostage.

Can you give us any idea, I know that you haven't been taken a hostage, but can you give us any idea?

Can you put a face or a name to the idea of being taken hostage and taken to Gaza?

- Yeah, there are so many stories.

I'm trying to think about one.

Like there is an old woman, 85 years old, was taking, she's a Holocaust survivor.

She was taking with her golf car that she used to use in the kibbutz.

They just took her with this car and she was smiling and there are videos going on that she's with like four people from Hamas with her.

And she's smiling and at the beginning people say, "Maybe this woman has Alzheimer's or she doesn't get what's going on."

And then her grandchild was interviewed and she said, "No, my grandma doesn't have any Alzheimer.

She just knew that she needs, she's a Holocaust survivor.

She needed to show them that she's strong."

And she's just sitting there so calm, smiling, and I'm like, I hope and I pray for this woman, 'cause she needs like medicine.

She's 85 years old.

I hope she's still alive for weeks after it.

I really pray for her and the 240 others, but we really don't know.

The families are keep saying that they have nothing for weeks.

They didn't get even one hint about what happened to their loved ones.

And this is something that like, I can't sleep at night.

I don't know how any mom over the world, doesn't matter what is your religious, like what are your political ideas are?

If you are a mom, you can't sleep at night knowing that babies, elderly women, men being kidnapped in Gaza and God know in what condition.

- You spent four years in Maryland outside of DC, where you were teaching.

Can you tell us about your connection to the recent Maryland loan soldier who was killed?

- Yeah, it was part of our community.

He was a student in our school, Charles E. Smith Jewish Day School.

And I have to say that the community is devastated.

He was a loan soldier in Israel.

He was back in the United States and when they call him, he said, "I'm coming, I'm not leaving my unit."

Although he could stay, he could stay in America.

He finished his service already and he went back to the reserve service, and he got killed.

So, this is really, I think shows us the most that the people of Israel are together.

It doesn't matter if you're in the United States, or anywhere in Europe, or other places in the world.

Like if one person, we have a phrase in Israel that if one person from our people is gone, it's like one piece of our heart is broken.

So, that's what we felt.

And I have to say, I'm getting so many comments from my friend in the United States sharing with us the, like the grief and pain that they are feeling standing with us, standing with Israel.

And I'm proud that I have such a good friends and such a strong community that's standing for Israel.

- One question I wanna ask you.

When you're sitting in Israel and you hear about American campuses protesting free Palestine, faculty signing letters in support of Hamas, what do you think?

Can you share with us what does it look like to people outside of the United States?

- I have to say that I really believe that people doesn't really understand the conflict.

And if they would understand the conflict, they wouldn't say free Palestine.

They probably would say free Palestine from Hamas, 'cause if you understand the conflict, you would know that Hamas is taking all the medical care, all the money that been giving to the Palestinians.

They're using it to build more rockets, to build, to take as their salaries instead of giving it to education, to develop the places for the Palestinian people.

And we can see that here and there, Palestinian brave people saying, "Save us from Hamas."

And that's what people don't understand.

If Israel would like to kill the Palestinians, she wouldn't use soldiers going by foot inside Gaza, because she can use the Air Force just bombed everything.

We don't care.

But we do care.

We are trying to send the people out from Gaza out of the places that get bombs.

And Hamas is stopping there.

There are actually videos that showing and phone recording that say, "Hamas doesn't let us leave.

They are shooting at us.

They want us to stay, 'cause they want us as human shields."

And this is the true story that people don't wanna hear.

And this is so sad for me, 'cause I really like admire the way that Israel is like trying to deal with it.

I know that the, like free Palestine is very cool to say right now, but I think that most of the people doesn't really get the story.

- In one or two words, how would you change the world's perception of Israel in just a couple words?

- I just, I wish that everyone could come here and see what a beautiful country is.

What a beautiful.

- I would agree.

And beaches, we have to add beaches, right?

- And food and happy people.

- Yes.

- We are happy people.

We're optimistic, we wanna live.

And I believe that Palestinians wants to live, but Hamas doesn't let them.

So, I wish people could come here and learn the story from Israelis, from Palestinians, really hear the narrative being told by the people.

- Thank you.

Unknown and uncertain.

Liat Arditi-Zarouk has joined us today from her home outside of Jerusalem to help us understand what life is like when you live with the unknown and the uncertain every day.

In some ways, the Middle East is very complicated.

In other ways, it's not.

The citizens of every democracy have a right to expect to wake up every day.

You met one of the citizens today.

I thank you for joining "Forum 360".

I'm Leslie Unger, your host, thank you.

- [Narrator] "Forum 360" is brought to you by John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, The Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications, and "Forum 360" supporters.