>> ON THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF CONNECT-NEW YORK, IN RECOGNITION OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH, WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE CHALLENGES - AND OPPORTUNITIES - FACING BLACK NEW YORKERS.

DON'T GO ANYWHERE, WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> ON THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF CONNECT-NEW YORK, IN RECOGNITION OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH, WE'RE HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE CHALLENGES - AND OPPORTUNITIES - FACING BLACK NEW YORKERS.

WELCOME TO CONNECT-NEW YORK.

I'M DAVID LOMBARDO, HOST OF WCNY'S THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, A DAILY PUBLIC RADIO SHOW, BROADCASTING FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

ON TODAY'S SHOW, AS PART OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH, WE'RE FOCUSING OUR ATTENTION ON ISSUES DISPROPORTIONATELY FACING BLACK PEOPLE IN THE EMPIRE STATE.

AND BEFORE WE TURN TO THIS MONTH'S PANEL, WE'RE GOING TO SPOTLIGHT MATERNAL HEALTH OUTCOMES FOR BLACK WOMEN, AN ISSUE THAT HAS GARNERED INCREASE ATTENTION AT THE CAPITOL IN ALBANY, AS STATE POLICYMAKERS GRAPPLE WITH THE WILDLY DISPARATE OUTCOMES FOR EXPECTING MOTHERS AND TAKE STEPS TO IMPROVE THE BIRTHING PROCESS, SUCH AS EXPANDING ACCESS TO DOULAS.

CONNECT-NEW YORK PRODUCER, ALEC AMBRUSO, HAS THAT STORY.

>> BLACK BABIES ARE TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE THAN WHITE BABIES.

BLACK WOMEN ARE THREE TO FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE IN CHILD BIRTH.

THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

THAT'S WRONG!

IT'S UNCONSCIONABLE.

NOW THERE IS A GROWING BODY OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS DUEL CARE IS RELATED TO REDUCED C-SECTIONS, PREMATURE DELIVERIES, REDUCED LIKELIHOOD OF POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION.

THEY HAVE A VITAL ROLE TO PLAY AND THEY'RE BEING VERY SUCCESSFUL.

WE ARE GOING TO MAKE DUEL CARE AS ACCESSIBLE TO AS MANY NEW YORKERS AS POSSIBLE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY'RE NEEDED THE MOST.

I'M PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT IN A FEW MINUTES I WILL BE SIGNING A BILL THAT WILL HELP CREATE THE NEW YORK STATE DUEL DIRECTORY TO HELP CONNECT NEW YORKERS WITH A DUEL.

>> A DUEL IS DUALA IS TRAINED TO PROVIDE EMOTIONAL PHYSICAL SUPPORT IN PRECONCEPTION, PRENATAL, PREGNANCY, LABOR OR POST-PARTUM PERIOD.

MY ROLE IS TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE, THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS AND THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT SO IF THINGS HAPPEN OUT OF THE ORDINARY, WE HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE THAT ADDRESSES IT.

THE MAJORITY OF MY CLIENTS ARE BLACK WOMEN, AND A MAJORITY OF THEM ARE SIMPLY AFRAID OF WHAT REQUEST CAN HAPPEN TO THEM.

THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE SEEK ME OUT.

I KNOW BLACK WOMEN ARE DYING IN THIS COUNTRY AND I JUST WANT SOMEONE THERE WHO KNOWS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN SO IF ANYTHING DOESN'T HAPPEN THE WAY THAT I WANT, THEY CAN ADVOCATE FOR ME.

WE SEE THAT BLACK WOMEN ARE SIGNIFICANTLY AND MORE LIKELY TO EXPERIENCE A PREGNANCY-RELATED DEATH OR MORBIDITY AND IT'S REGARDLESS OF YOUR SOCIAL ECONOMIC LEVEL AS WELL.

SO EVEN AS A RICH BLACK PERSON OR POOR BLACK PERSON, YOU EXPERIENCE THESE NEGATIVE OUTCOMES.

AND SO IT COULD BE A WHOLE HOST OF REASONS WHY THIS HAPPENS, WHETHER IT'S LACK OF ACCESS TO PROPER CARE, IMPLICIT BIAS IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, OR JUST THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES AS BLACK WOMEN, WE ARE NOT BELIEVED THAT WE ARE IN PAIN OR THAT WE HAVE ISSUES.

>> I THINK THE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO COME TO ME FOR DUALA SERVICE DUELA SERVICES ARE AWARE OF THE FACTS THAT THEY DO NOT FEEL LISTENED BY PROVIDERS.

A LOT OF TIMES PROVIDERS CAN HAVE 15 OR 20 MINUTE SLOTS WHERE THEY ASK WHAT YOUR CHIEF COMPLAINT IS AND THEY SEND YOU ON PEOPLE FEEL EMPOWERED WHEN THEY HAVE ACCESS TO WHAT THEY NEED.

THE GREATEST FORM OF SUPPORT IS EDUCATION.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PREGNANCY AND BIRTH, EVERYTHING IS SO URGENT.

I'M HAVING A HOME BIRTH AND MY EXPERIENCE IS DIFFERENT THAN THE CLIENTS I SUPPORT BECAUSE I HAVE A MIDWIFE AND IT IS A LOT MORE HANDS OFF.

HAVING A HOME BIRTH IS NOT AS NORMAL.

THERE WAS A LOT OF FEAR AND APPREHENSION WHEN I BROUGHT IT TO MY PARENTS AND TO MY PARTNER.

LIKE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THERE IS NOT AS MUCH URGENCY AND I THINK THEY WERE ALL SO USED TO PREGNANCY AND BIRTH BEING LIKE THIS REALLY MANAGED ENVIRONMENT AND IT'S NOT.

I'M IN CONTROL OF THE EXPERIENCE AND HOW I WANT MY BIRTH AND LABOR TO GO.

>> I WANT TO SEE LEGISLATION THAT FOCUSES ON THE BIG PICTURE, THAT FOCUSES ON EXPANDING AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE ARE PROVIDERS IN THE COMMUNITY WHO ARE GOING BACK TO OUR ROOTS, RIGHT, WHERE A HOME BIRTH, THEY COME TO YOU.

THEY COME TO YOUR HOUSE.

>> SOMETHING OPTIMISTIC ABOUT BLACK MATERNAL OUTCOMES, ACCESS TO SOCIAL MEDIA, THE AWARENESS, IT'S REALLY BEING BROUGHT TO THE FOREFRONT SO PEOPLE ARE HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS AND THAT'S ALWAYS THE BEGINNING.

>> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE EXPANDING ACCESS TO MIDWIFERY CARE, PROMOTING ALTERNATIVE BIRTHING CENTERS AND EDUCATING WOMEN ON THE PREFERENCES THAT THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE EXPERIENCING BIRTH AND JOY DURING THIS BEAUTIFUL TIME IN OUR LIVES.

IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF MY SKIN, I DON'T GET ACCESS TO JOY, HAPPINESS AND EQUITY IN BIRTH.

>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS NOT DUE TO BLACK WOMEN'S BODIES OR GENETIC DYSFUNCTION.

THIS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT LISTENED TO.

THIS ENTAILS THAT THE HISTORY OF RACISM IN HEALTHCARE HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.

SO IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT THIS IS A MANMADE ISSUE AND THERE ARE MAN MANMADE SOLUTIONS TO THIS ISSUE AS WELL.

>> AND NOW WE ARE GOING TALK MORE BROADLY ABOUT ISSUES DISPROPORTIONATELY FACING BLACK NEW YORKERS.

AND TO DO THAT, WE ARE JOINED IN THE STUDIO BY MAHER-- BY MAHER REFUGEES BROWN ONONDAGA COUNTY LEGISLATOR REPRESENTING PART OF SYRACUSE, LANESSA OWENS-CHAPLIN, DIRECTOR OF THE RACIAL JUSTICE CENTER FOR THE NEW YORK CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION, AND SARHIA RAHIM, AN ACTIVIST AND SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY STUDENT.

SO, VANESSA, I WANT TO START WITH YOU AND THE VERY PREMISE OF THIS EPISODE, THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE ISSUES FACING BLACK NEW YORKERS, CLEARLY BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT A MONOLITH, BUT ARE THERE SHARED EXPERIENCES OR TRENDS THAT MAKE THIS CONVERSATION WORTH HAVING?

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A TYPE OF COMMON THEME OF, I MEAN JUST TO START, WE LIVE IN AN INSTITUTION SOCIETY IN NEW YORK THAT HAS BASED A LOT OF RULES, REGULATIONS AND POLICIES ON RACE.

SO ENSLAVED KNOCKERRERS IN NEW YORK,-- AS ENSLAVED NEW YORKERS IN NEW YORK, I THINK HAVING THE DISCUSSION AROUND THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS OF BLACK NEW YORKERS HAS TO START WITH THE VERY BEGINNING OF HOW WE GOT HERE.

>> AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE CHALLENGES TODAY, HOW MANY OF THEM ARE A PRODUCT OF THE ORIGINAL SIN OF THIS COUNTRY AND HOW MUCH ARE A PRODUCT OF THE POLICIES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN THE WAKE OF THE 13th AMENDMENT, IN THE WAKE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST OF THE 19 SIGNATURES.

>> I THINK FOR A LONG TIME, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CHALLENGE THE SYSTEM AND STRUCTURES OF RACISM AND I THINK TRYING TO INCLUDE OVERCOMING THE HURDLES ONCE SLAVERY ENDED.

LEGISLATION POLICIES LIKE RED LINING, HOUSING DISCRIMINATION, MORTGAGE DISCRIMINATION.

I THINK ALL THOSE THINGS TIE INTO, LIKE YOU SAID, OUR ORIGINAL SIN OF SLAVERY AND ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE NEW YORKERS, SLAVERY WAS ENDED AND ABOLISHED IN THE MID 18 20S, THOSE LINGERING EFFECTS ARE STILL FELT TODAY.

AND I THINK SOME PERFECT EXAMPLES ARE SCHOOL SEGREGATION, RIGHT?

AND AS HOW WE AS A STATE INTENTIONALLY SEGREGATED OUR SCHOOLS AND UNDERFUNDED BLACK SCHOOLS.

>> AS OUR YOUNG PERSON TODAY, HOW DO YOU THINK OF THE ISSUES AND THE LEGACY OF POLICIES THAT PREDATE NOT JUST YOU BUT EVERYONE AT THIS TABLE?

>> I THINK THEY STILL AFFECT ME TO THIS DAY.

A LOT OF MY RESEARCH AT S.U.

CONTAINS THE 15th WARD, I.D.-1 AND LOOKING AT RED LINING AND SEGREGATION IN THE CITY.

IN THE WORDING OF A LOT OF THESE COMMUNITIES WITHIN NEWSPAPERS DURING THIS TIME ARE CALLING THEM SLUMS.

AND TALKING ABOUT THE COMMUNITIES LIKE THEY DON'T HAVE THEIR OWN VOICE.

AND WE SEE THIS A LOT TODAY CONTINUING.

WE SEE TODAY, PEOPLE LIVING IN PIONEER HOMES CONTINUING TO FIGHT FOR THEIR VOICE AND CONTINUING TO ADVOCATE FOR THEIR RIGHTS, THEIR HOUSING AND WHAT THEY WANT THEIR FUTURE TO LOOK LIKE WHEN THE COMMUNITY GRID COMES.

>> AND THE ISSUES THAT YOU ARE HIGHLIGHTING WHETHER IT'S I-81, SYRACUSE SCHOOLS ARE NOT NECESSARILY UNIQUE TO SYRACUSE.

THESE ARE ISSUES THAT BROADLY FELT IN UPSTATE COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY WITH A LARGER SHARE OF BLACK PEOPLE.

THIS, AS A COUNTY LEGISLATOR, AS SOMEONE WHO IS INVOLVED IN GOVERNMENT, WHAT ARE THE AVE BE ABLE TO POLL OUTSIDE OF POLITICS?

>> YEAH, SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST WNS THAT ONES THAT WE HAVE CONTROL OVER IS SOCIAL SERVICES.

THERE IS A LOT OF INEQUITY IN SOCIAL SERVICES BUT THAT'S NOT EXCLUSIVE TO ONONDAGA COUNTY.

A LOT OF LIKE WHAT WAS BEING SAID, A LOT OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCES ARE SHARED ACROSS THE STATE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THINGS THAT HAVE WORKED IN OTHER PLACES SO THAT WE CAN DO THOSE THINGS HERE.

IT'S A CHALLENGE, ALWAYS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE BUT THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE AND HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE IN THIS POSITION TO DO BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE BEFORE US HAVE DONE.

>> IS IT A QUESTION THOUGH OF KNOWING WHAT THE RIGHT POLICIES OR, ARE IS IT A QUESTION OF JUST HAVING LAWMAKERS WITH THE POLITICAL WILL TO IMPLEMENT THOSE THINGS?

OR EVEN THE INTEREST TO IMPLEMENT THOSE THINGS?

>> I THINK BOTH.

I DO THINK BOTH.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A PART OF IT WHERE IT'S LIKE YOU NEED POLITICAL WILL.

YOU THEY'D SOMEBODY WITH THE COURAGE TO STAND UP AND DO WHAT'S RIGHT.

BUT A LOT OF TIMES WHAT IS RIGHT IS NOT THAT BLACK AND WHITE.

IT'S NOT JUST DO THIS THING.

SOMETIMES IT'S MORE NUANCED THAN THAT AND I'M LEARNING THAT MORE THAN OTHER.

OBVIOUSLY THE CONVERSATION WE ARE ABOUT TO HAVE THE PANEL IS ONE OF THE SITUATIONS WHERE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE RIGHT THING IS.

WE KNOW WHERE WE NEED TO GO AND WHAT THE DIRECTION IS BUT WHERE THE EXACT ANGLE IS, WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT STILL.

>> IS IT THAT COMPLICATED?

DO WE NOT HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF HOW UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME, WORKING FAMILY TAX CREDITS, THE THINGS THAT LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY WHICH IS DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTS PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> WOULD I LIKE TO THINK IT'S SUPER COMPLICATED AND GIVE PEOPLE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, RIGHT, THAT OUR LEADERS FOR A CENTURY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET IT RIGHT BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S SUPER COMPLICATED.

I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF HAVES AND HAVE NOTS AND A MATTER OF RACE AND EVERYTHING WE DO IN NEW YORK STATE SPECIFICALLY STEMS FROM THE INGRAINED IDEA THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE INFERIOR, AND THAT BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD BE THANKFUL OR GRATEFUL FOR THE CRUMBS THAT THEY'RE THROWN.

AND WE SEE THIS IN EVERY SYSTEM, RIGHT?

WE SEE THE POLICING OF BLACK BODIES IN NEW YORK.

AND WE'VE SEEN IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND WE CAN TIE IT INTO MASS INCARCERATION WHERE DISPROPORTIONATE OF FOLKS IN JAIL ARE BLACK PEOPLE.

AND HARSHER SENTENCING FOR BLACK OFFENDERS AND OVER POLICING IN THE FAMILY REGULATION SYSTEM WHERE WE SEEING MORE BLACK CHILDREN TAKEN FROM HOMES THAN WHITE CHILDREN, RIGHT?

WE HAVE ALL THESE REALLY VERY INGRAINED FACTUALLY BASED STATISTICS THAT TELL US THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY JUST A MATTER OF HOW DO WE OVERCOME THAT?

AND I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF WHAT POLICIES DO WE NEED TO ABOLISH OR REALLY TAKE A DEEP LOOK AT TO SAY HOW DID THIS POLICY COME TO BE AND WHAT IS ARE THE LASTING AND LINGERING IMPACTS ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY BASED ON THESE POLICIES?

AND I DON'T THINK FOR A VERY LONG TIME WE LOOKED AT POLICY WITH A RACIAL JUSTICE LENS TO SAY HOW ARE WE GOING TO ENSURE THAT WE EQUALLY IMPLEMENT THESE POLICIES ACROSS THE STATE.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE DISCRETION OF COMMUNITIES, DISCRETION OF COUNTIES IN NEW YORK STATE, DISCRETION OF JUDGES AND SMALL TOWNS, BIG TOWNS IN NEW YORK TO SAY HOW WE WANT TO DO THIS.

AND I THINK WE KNOW THE BETTER WAY.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WANTING THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO IT AND ALSO THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF OUR SOCIETY IN NEW YORK BECAUSE IT'S NOT A MONOLITH.

IT'S NOT THE BLACK COMMUNITY THINKS THIS SHOULD HAPPEN AND ALL NON-BLACK PEOPLE THINK THIS SHOULD HAPPEN, RIGHT?

IT'S A STRUGGLE TO GET EVERYBODY OF THE SAME ACCORD TO THINK HOW DO WE MOVE THIS FORWARD AND HOW DO WE REALLY ADDRESS THE STEREOTYPES THAT BLACK PEOPLE HAVE LEFT BECAUSE THEY'RE LAZY OR BLACK PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE LESS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE POLITICAL POWER OR THE WILL OR THE DRIVE WHEN THERE IS REALLY A SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT CURRENTLY AND HISTORICALLY OPPRESS BLACK PEOPLE FROM ACCESS TO THOSE THINGS.

>> I DID WANT TO PUSH BACK JUST A LITTLE ON THE PRESENCE OF NUANCE, NOT TO SAY THAT IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND THERE IS A WRONG THING TO DO AND WE NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING, WHICH IS ADDRESS THE INEQUALITIES THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT IT'S GOING TO LOOK DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.

I'LL USE, YOU KNOW, NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE, OR NEW YORK STATE EVEN WHERE ONE OF THE LIKE POSSIBLE REPARATIONS OUTCOMES IS GOING TO BE TUITION-FREE COLLEGE.

TUITION-FREE COLLEGE MIGHT NOT WORK IF YOU LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHERE FOLKS CAN'T GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL.

WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT INEQUITY.

THERE IS SO MUCH PROBLEMS IN OUR COMMUNITY AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS JUST A ONE SIZE FITS ALL GLOVE.

I DO THINK, I AGREE 100% THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN HAD THIS CONVERSATION IN THE PAST.

WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT POLICIES FROM A RACIAL JUSTICE LENS AND I'M GLAD WE ARE DOING THAT NOW.

BUT JUST AS A LAWMAKER, THOSE SPECIFICS, THOSE DETAILS HAVE TO MATTER TO ME.

>> SO WHAT WAY IS THE CONVERSATION AROUND RACIAL JUSTICE HAS CHANGED IN RECENT YEARS IS SOMETHING LIKE THE 2019 CLIMATE LEADERSHIP AND COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT WHICH HAS AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMPONENT OF IT SO, AGAIN, AS THE YOUNG PERSON, SARHIA, DO WE NEED TO OPEN OUR MIND TO THE IDEA THAT RACIAL JUSTICE ISN'T JUST ABOUT PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO VOTE?

THAT THIS TRICKLES DOWN INTO SO MANY ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES LIKE WHERE A POLLUTING PLANT MIGHT BE LOCATED AND WHO HAVE ACCESS TO GREEN JOBS FUNDING.

>> 100%.

SPEAKING WITH MY PEERS, YOU FIND A LOT OF THEM DON'T TRUST THE SYSTEM AND A LOT OF THEM DON'T SEE THEIR VOTE GOING ANYWHERE WHICH IS DISHEARTENING TO ME AS SOMEONE TO STUDIES GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS.

>> IS THAT BEING YOUNG OR PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> BOTH.

HISTORICALLY WHEN I TALK TO MY BLACK FRIENDS AND PEERS, THEY SEE IT AS, WELL, I'M A PERSON OF ENCLOSE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY AND I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, SYSTEMATICALLY, WHAT IS GOING TO BENEFIT ME?

WHAT IS THE OUTCOME?

AS YOUNG PEOPLE, WE ARE LOOKING AT A TIME WHERE, AGAIN, FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, WE ARE IN FEAR FOR OUR FUTURE.

I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM IN THE BROADER SCOPE OF JUST ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE,RACE DOES HAVE A HUGE PART OF IT.

AND THINKING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LIVE BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING THE IMPACTS THAT ONE COMMUNITY MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THE ENVIRONMENT DIFFERENTLY FROM ANOTHER COMMUNITY, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY ARE.

>> I'M GOING TO BUILD OFF OF THAT, AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE HAVE INTENTIONALLY ACTED IN A WAY TO HARM THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

AND FOR DECADES, BLACK WOMEN ACROSS-- BLACK AREAS IN NEW YORK STATE ARE ZONED IN A WAY TO ALLOW INDUSTRIAL USES.

EXCUSE ME.

>> HAVE SOME WATER.

FINE SYRACUSE WATER.

GET FRESH AND COME BACK AT US.

>> THE ZONING LAWS, THAT WERE CREATED INTENTIONAL BACK IN 1920 BY SEGREGATIONISTS IS DISSEMINATED ACROSS THE STATE INCLUDING NEW YORK AND SYRACUSE ADOPTED THE ZONING PRACTICES.

WHERE WE SEE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE LOW INCOME, PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE OFTEN ZONED FOR RESIDENTIAL USE AND LIGHT INDUSTRY.

AND SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANS THAT IN BLACK COMMUNITIES, IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES, THERE IS ALLOWANCE, RIGHT, THERE IS A FREE PASS FOR POLLUTING PLANTS, MASSIVE HIGHWAYS AND OTHER TOXIC FACILITIES BUILT IN THOSE COMMUNITIES BECAUSE IT DOESN'T VALUE THE BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD THE SAME AS IT DOES NON-BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND ALSO TO THE BENEFIT OF WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU GET TO ACCESS, FOR EXAMPLE, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY GETS TO ACCESS HOT WATER BECAUSE THEY HAVE A STEAM PLANT IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY THAT IS PREDOMINANTLY LOW INCOME AND BLACK.

SO WHEN WE ARE MAKING THESE POLICIES, WE HAVE TO FIRST DECONSTRUCT ALL OF THE LAWS THAT WERE PUT AHEAD OF US TO SAY WELL WHY DO WE ZONE IT THIS WAY?

OH BECAUSE OF RACISM.

RIGHT?

SO WE HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH THAT AND MAURICE'S POINT, ABOUT PEOPLE NOT GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL.

IF YOU LIVE IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY TOXIC NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT, YOUR LIKELIHOOD OF GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL DECREASES BECAUSE YOUR LIKELIHOOD OF ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY DISEASE INCREASES WHICH INCREASES YOUR ABSENCES WHICH MEANS YOU ARE MISSING VALUABLE TIMES IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

ALSO LAST POINT, WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY TOXIC NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE COMMUNITY AND HOMES AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD?

THAT MEANS THEY WORK LESS, WHICH MEANS YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD GENERATIONAL WEALTH, MEANS YOUR TAX BASE IS LOW, OUR SCHOOL SYSTEMS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE ARE FUNNED BY OUR TAX BASE SO THAT MEANS THE SCHOOL IN THE AREA DOESN'T HAVE THE PROPER RESOURCES BECAUSE THE TAX BASE IS LOW BECAUSE THERE IS A MANUFACTURING PLANT IN THEIR BACKYARD.

ALL THESE THINGS TIED TOGETHER AND SYSTEMICALLY TO OPPRESS BLACK COMMUNITIES.

>> SO SOMETHING LIKE A COMMITMENT TO INVESTING 30 TO 40% OF SOME SORT OF GREEN ENERGY MONEY BACK INTO THESE COMMUNITIES OR ENSURING THAT THERE IS ACCESS TO GREEN JOB TRAINING IN THE FUTURE.

, DOES THAT RIGHT THE WRONGS OF THE PAST OR IS THAT JUST THE FIRST STEP IN A MUCH LONGER JOURNEY?

>> SO I THINK THE CLCPA REQUIRES, MANDATES THAT 40% OF FUNDING FROM THIS INITIATIVE BE INVESTED BACK INTO DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES AND ALSO REQUIRES EVEN IN STATE LICENSURES AND PERMITS STATE AGENT AGENCIES HAVE TO I AM PREVIEW HOW THE PERMITS WILL AFFECT BLACK COMMUNITIES.

DOES IT RERERIGHT THE WRONG IS NO BUT DOES IT REPAIR THE HARM?

IT GUNS TO BECAUSE THE HARM HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

I DON'T THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO REPAIR IN THE WHOLE SENSE BUT WE CAN STOP THE BLEEDING, RIGHT?

STOP THE BOAT FROM SINKING AND START TO RETHINK HOW WE DO THINGS.

>> IN TERMS OF REPAIRING THE HARM OF THE PAST, THE NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE WITH THE GOVERNOR'S SUPPORT, PASSED A BILL IN 2023 DEALING WITH A REPARATIONS COMMISSION THAT IS SUPPOSED TO STUDY THE IMPACT OF SLAVERY AND THE POLICIES THAT HAVE COME IN THE WAKE OF THAT.

SARHIA, WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT BEING DISILLUSIONED.

IS THERE FAITH IN A COMMISSION LIKE THIS PRODUCING MEANINGFUL RESULTS?

THIS IS NOT THE COMMISSION THAT WILL IMPLEMENT THINGS, JUST MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS.

WHAT KIND OF EXPECTATIONS DO YOU HAVE ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK AS SOMEONE WHO PRIDES MYSELF IN THE DATA, I MUST SAY THAT I THINK THIS IS A GOOD STEP.

I THINK LOOKING AND HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS PRIOR IS A GOOD STEP BUT IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE GOTTEN FROM THIS COMMITTEE, IT'S A WASTE.

SO I REALLY HOPE THAT WE SEE FUTURE STEPS AFTER THIS AND I DO THINK IT'S VALUABLE.

BUT AGAIN, IT NEEDS NEXT STEPS AND ACTIONS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA, MAHER MAURICE, THAT A COMMISSION COULD EXPOSE AND HIGHLIGHT ISSUES THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IF THEY'RE NOT ENGAGING IN THESE ISSUES ARE NOT COGNIZANT ABOUT.

THEY MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT RED LINING BECAUSE THEY IGNORE IT OR JUST NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO KNOW ABOUT IT?

WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT THIS COMMISSION COULD THEORETICALLY FURTHER THOSE DISCUSSIONS AS WELL?

>> I'LL TABLING THE ROLE OF THE ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE ROOM.

I WANT TO HAVE FAITH IN OUR GOVERNMENT TO DO THE RIGHT THING IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED.

I THINK CALIFORNIA HAS DONE IT BUT NEVER NEW YORK STATE'S HISTORY HAVE WE EVEN HAD THIS CONVERSATION.

I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT PROGRESS BUT WE HAVE TO RESEARCH WHAT IS GOING TO DO THE BEST.

I THINK THE THINGS THAT MAY WORK DOWNSTATE MAY NOT WORK UCHT.

THAT'S JUST AN ASSUMPTION I HAVE.

THEY NEED TO STUDY THAT AND FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS.

I'M GLAD THEY'RE DOING THE RESEARCH.

I'M GLAD THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT IS DATA DRIVEN AND STUDIED AND TESTED BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, SARHIA IS RIGHT.

WHATEVER WE FIND OUT, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE POLITICAL COURAGE TO ACT ON IT BECAUSE IF WE DON'T, IT IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK MAKES THIS PROCESS MEANINGFUL?

>> I THINK IT'S HISTORIC, RIGHT?

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE AMOUNT OF ADVOCACY THAT HAD TO HAPPEN FOR THE REPARATIONS TO PASS.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL QUOTED IT BEING POLITICAL ACCESS-A-RIDE IN TERMS OF SIGNING AND PASSING THE BILL.

>> MIGHT HAVE BEEN HYPER BOLL HYPERBOLIC THOUGH.

>> IT WAS 101 ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE THAT WERE REALLY PUSHING TO ARE THIS LEGISLATION AND SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN IN THE ASSEMBLY AT LEAST FOR 15 YEARS, RIGHT, AND TRYING TO BE PUSHED ALONG.

AND SO I THINK IT'S FIRST AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THERE HAS BEEN A HARM TO A COMMUNITY THAT WE HAVE TO REPAIR.

I DON'T WANT IT TO GO BY THE WAYSIDE.

THERE IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT WE NEED TO REPAIR AND I THINK THERE IS AN IDEA ABOUT NEW YORK, A PERCEPTION ABOUT NEW YORK AS IF WE NEVER HAD ENSLAVED FOLKS.

THERE IS AN IDEA ABOUT NEW YORK AS AN ABOLITIONIST STATE WHO ALWAYS ADVOCATED FOR BLACK PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND KIND OF SHEPHERDED THEM INTO CANADA FOR FREEDOM.

I THINK WE HAVE TO FIRST OVERCOME THIS IDEA THAT NEW YORK DIDN'T ALSO BENEFIT FROM CHATTEL SLAVERY.

AND I THINK THIS IS THE FIRST STEP.

I'M REALLY EXCITED TO SEE WHAT THE COMMISSION COMES UP WITH.

AND I AGREE IT HAS TO BE-- THERE HAS TO BE SOME TEETH AT THE END OF THIS.

AND WE ARE THE STATE TO DO IT.

I'M EXCITED FOR THE POSSIBILITIES THAT WILL COME OF THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE MUCH HARDER ONCE THE INFORMATION IS DATA DRIVEN, ONCE EVERYTHING IS IN ONE REPORT.

IT'S GOING TO BE HARDER FOR THE FOLKS WHO DON'T WANT TO OR ARE WILLINGLY TRYING TO END QUALITY EQUALITY FOR ALL NEW YORKERS.

>> WHETHER IT'S VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATION, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION OR TARGETED INITIATIVES THAT PRIMARILY BENEFIT PEOPLE OF COLOR OR BLACK NEW YORKERS SPECIFICALLY.

HAVE WE ALREADY BEEN DOING REPARATIONS IN NEW YORK?

>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE DONE REPARATIONS IN NEW YORK SPECIFICALLY.

I THINK WE HAVE TRIED TO DO SOME RESTORATIVE WORK.

WE SEE THAT WITH THE DECRIMINALIZATION OF THE MARIJUANA BILL.

WHAT WAS CREATED DURING THE MASS INCARCERATION MOVEMENT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD MARIJUANA IN THEIR POSSESSION.

SO WE HAVE BEEN DOING KIND OF PIECE MEAL THINGS TO KIND OF CORRECT SOME OF THOSE THINGS, BUT NOT IN LARGER SENSE.

SO I THINK HOPEFULLY THIS COMMISSION, AT THE END OF THIS, WILL HAVE A REALLY ROBUST REPORT WITH A TON OF RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND I THINK THE MISCONCEPTION IS THAT REPARATIONS IS JUST ABOUT CASH PAYMENTS, WHICH UNDER CURRENT RACISM, WE CAN'T GIVE BLACK PEOPLE CASH PAYMENTS, THEY'RE GOING TO GO BUY SNEAKERS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR MONEY.

IT'S THEIR MONEY.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE CASH PAYMENTS AND I UNDERSTAND HUGE POLICY AND LEGISLATIVE SHIFT IN HOW WE ARE ADDRESSING SOME OF OUR ISSUES THAT ARE IMPACTING THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND HOPEFULLY A FORMAL APOLOGY FROM NEW YORK STATE THAT WE HAVE NEVER REALLY RECEIVED.

>> WHY IS THE FORMAL APOLOGY IMPORTANT?

>> I THINK IT GIVES ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THERE WAS A HARM CREATED.

AND I THINK MAYBE FOR NOT MY GENERATION OR GENERATIONS UNDER ME, IT MAY NOT BE AS IMPORTANT, BUT FOR OUR GRANDMOTHER WHO EXPERIENCED RED LINING FIRSTHAND, AND EXPERIENCED THESE TRAUMAS FIRSTHAND, WHO HAVE PASSED THAT TRAUMA ON TO THEIR CHILDREN, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY MEANINGFUL IN TERMS OF THEIR MENTAL HEALTH AND FAITH IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> WHO DOES THAT APOLOGY COME FROM THOUGH?

WE HAVE A BLACK SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY, WE HAVE A BLACK LEADER OF THE STATE SENATE.

ARE THEY GOING TO BE SIGNING OF ON AN APOLOGY FOR THINGS THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BECAUSE THE WHITE FOLKS IN OUR SENATE AND ASSEMBLY DIDN'T HAVE DIRECT CONNECTIONS TO SLAVERY EITHER.

SO ABSOLUTELY WE WANT IT FROM THE STATE.

>> SO SARHIA.

MENTION MENTIONING CASH REPARATIONS, BLACK PEOPLE ARE WILDLY SUCCESSFUL ACROSS NEW YORK AND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

WHEN WE THINK OF REPARATIONS, SHOULD THERE BE A PROGRESSIVE DISTRIBUTION OF SOMETHING LIKE A CASH-BASED REPARATION SYSTEM OR DO WE NEED TO WIDELY DISTRIBUTE MONEY IF IT IS PART OF THE CONVERSATION MOVING FORWARD?

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS COMMITTEE IS FOR THOUGH.

I THINK THE DATA AND INFORMATION COMING FROM THAT WILL ANSWER CERTAIN QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WILL THIS LOOK LIKE, EVEN IF THERE IS SOMETHING IMPLEMENTED AFTERWARDS, WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE AND WHAT WILL THE BEST FOR THESE COMMUNITIES.

I THINK DESPITE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL OFF IN THEIR COMMUNITY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEIR ANCESTORS DIDN'T SUFFER FROM RED LINING SLAVERY OR SEGREGATION.

>> HOW DO YOU MAKE THE CONVERSATION PALATABLE FOR WHITE PEOPLE WHO SAID I NEVER OWNED SLAVERY.

MY FAMILY HAD IT REALLY TOUGH.

WE DIDN'T COME OVER TO THIS COUNTRY UNTIL 15 YEARS AGO.

A REALLY GOOD EPISODE OF ATLANTA THAT SPELLS OUT THE PUSHBACK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ON THIS ISSUE IF IT BECOMES A BIGGER PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

SO HOW DO YOU BEGIN TO BROACH THAT CONVERSATION?

DO YOU HAVE TO TAILOR THE MESSAGE?

DO YOU HAVE TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE, OR DO, YOU KNOW, HAVE BLACK PEOPLE GONE THROUGH ENOUGH AND IT'S TIME FOR WHITE PEOPLE TO MEET BLACK PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE LIVING?

>> CLOSER TO THE SECOND THING YOU SAID.

IT IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH CONVERSATION TO HAVE AND IT'S ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M WILLING TO ENGAGE IN BUT IT IS FRUSTRATING AND I HAVE TO ENGAGE IN IT.

IT'S REALLY TAXING ON BLACK AMERICANS, ON ANYBODY REALLY, BUT ON BLACK AMERICANS TO HAVE TO KEEP DOING THIS WORK.

I TELL THE STORY SIR WALTER SCOTT WAS LIKE MY INTRODUCTION TO ORGANIZING.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT HAPPENED.

BUT WALTER SCOTT HAPPENED AFTER MIKE BROWN BUT LIKE BEFORE GEORGE FLOYD, WHERE LIKE THAT MOMENT KEPT REPEATING IN OUR HISTORY.

AND THAT KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED PRIOR, WHERE OUR HISTORY WAS REALLY BAD.

THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED DURING SLAVERY AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AFTER.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE 81 CONVERSATION AND RED LINING, WE TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT BLACK AMERICANS LITERALLY WERE NOT ABLE TO MOVE TO DEWITT, TO DELAY, TO THESE OTHER PLACES AND IT WAS THE LAW.

LIKE IT RAS IN POLICY.

AND WAS NOT THE 18 HUNS.

THAT WAS 1950s, 19 SIGNATURES.

>> PEOPLE-- 1960S.

>> PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE TODAY.

>> THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE ALIVE RIGHT NOW THAT ATTENDED SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

THAT IS NOT A MYTH.

RUBY BRIDGES HAS LIKE A TWITTER LIKE SHE TALKS ABOUT IT.

LIKE THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALIVE RIGHT NOW.

WE LIKE TO PRETEND THAT SLAVERY AND SEGREGATION AND THESE THINGS HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, AGES AGO.

IT WAS A GENERATION AGO.

TWO GENERATIONS AT MAX.

AND WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WRONG HAPPENED THEN AS WELL AND WE HAVE TO UNDO THAT, TOO.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE MESSAGING COMPONENT OF THIS CONVERSATION?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE PACKAGED AND TAILORED IN A CERTAIN WAY, OR DOES IT JUST NEED TO BE THROWN INTO PEOPLE'S FACES SO THAT THEY HAVE TO CONFRONT IT ON MAYBE THE MORE REALISTIC TERMS?

>> I THINK WHAT IS FUNNY IS, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE MY AGE, THINGS LIKE TIKTOK AND INSTAGRAM, A LOT OF THIS NEWS IS WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, I THINK, HAPPENS, WHERE A LOT OF STUDENTS OR YOUNG PEOPLE GO IN AND THEY DO MORE RESEARCH OR MAYBE THAT'S JUST ME AND MY PEERS.

I WOULD HOPE OTHERS DO THAT AND OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE DO THAT AS WELL.

ASK QUESTIONS AND TRY TO HAVE DIALOGUE.

I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THROWN IN PEOPLE'S FACES.

I THINK FOR SOME PEOPLE, YOU MITE HAVE TO MEET THEM HALFWAY FOR DIFFERENT GENERATIONS BUT I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, I THINK WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO TALK ABOUT THE CLASSROOM AND HIGHER EDUCATION.

OR JUST TO KIND OF ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A LOT OF THESE STUDENTS HAVE HAD THESE CONVERSATIONS ONLINE ALREADY.

>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT THE ISSUES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT NECESSARILY UNIQUE TO BLACK PEOPLE BUT THERE IS OVERLAP WITH LOW INCOME PEOPLE.

SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES AS BEING SOLELY RACIALLY DRIVEN OR ARE THESE LOW INCOME PROBLEMS OR DO WE NEED TO MOLD THE TWO OF THEM TOGETHER WHEN THINKING ABOUT SOLUTIONS?

>> I THINK THAT IT CAN BE BOTH AND, RIGHT?

AND SO NOT ALL ISSUES ARE EXCLUSIVE TO BLACK FOLKS.

AGAIN, WE ARE NOT A MONOLITH BUT NOT ALL THINGS ARE EXCLUSIVE TO LOW INCOME PEOPLE.

A PERSON, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO IS A BLACK PERSON, LOW INCOME, IS GOING TO HAVE A SET OF CHALLENGES COMPARED TO A PERSON WHO IS LOW INCOME RURAL HAS A DIFFERENT SET OF CHALLENGES.

I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT LIFTING EVERYBODY UP IN OUR COMMUNITY, NOT JUST SPECIFICALLY ABOUT LIFTING UP BLACK PEOPLE.

BUT I THINK THIS CONVERSATION AROUND REPARATIONS HAS TO BE ABOUT THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CHATTEL SLAVERY IN NEW YORK STATE.

AND I THINK FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO MAYBE THIS IS A NEW CONCEPT, MAYBE WE CAN REMIND FOLKS THERE WAS A CIVIL LIBERTIES ACT OF 1988 WHERE JAPANESE AMERICANS RECEIVED REPARATIONS FOR THERE I TIME OR THEIR ANCESTORS TIME IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME OUR COUNTRY HAS TALKED ABOUT REPARATIONS 234 THE WAY THE RIGHTING THE WRONGS OF THE PAST.

THERE IS A HUGE EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT TO WHAT REPARATIONS MEANS.

I THINK THERE IS A HUGE ACKNOWLEDGE MANY THAT NO ONE IS SAYING THE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND NEW YORK NOW ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CHATTEL SLAVERY BUT THERE ARE BENEFITS FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD IN THE ENSLAVED AND I MEAN WE CAN GO TO THE G.I.

BILL WHERE BLACK VETERANS WERE NOT OFFERED THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUY HOMES, RIGHT?

AND THAT IS THE TYPE OF GENERATIONAL WEALTH THAT WE ARE SEEING TODAY AND WHY FOLKS CAN AFFORD BROWN STONES IN BROOKLYN AND HOUSES IN DEWITT BECAUSE THEY HAD THAT GENERATIONAL WEALTH BUILT OFF OF WHICH BLACKS FOLK, BECAUSE OF SLAVELY, DID NOT HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO ADDRESS SPECIFICALLY THE HARMS OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY, BUT THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM OTHER ADVOCACY EFFORTS AROUND UPLIFTING ALL LOW INCOME NEW YORKERS.

THE SCALE FOR THE JAPANESE REPARATIONS EFFORTS IS NOWHERE NEAR IF WE WRAP AROUND THE ARMS OF BLACK AMERICANS.

>> I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.

BUT IT'S AN EXAMPLE THAT WE HAVE ISSUED FORMAL APOLOGIES I THINK WHERE WE WANT TO FRAME THIS, THIS IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT.

IT'S SOMETHING WE ACTUALLY SHOULD BE DOING AND WE SHOULD HAVE DONE A LONG TIME AGO.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE WHAT-ISM CONVERSATION PEOPLE ARE HAVING AMONGST THEIR OWN HEADS AS THEY WATCH THIS.

SO MAYBE I'M A NATIVE AMERICAN AND I'M HEARING, HEY, YOU GUYS THINK YOU HAD IT BAD AMERICA, WAIT TO HEAR ABOUT OUR HISTORY.

SO GET IN LINE.

SO IS IT A CASE OF, YOU KNOW, NEEDING TO TARGET RESOURCES TO ONE COMMUNITY AT A TIME?

CAN WE TRY TO GRAPPLE WITH ALL OF THE WRONGS AT ONCE?

SHOULD PEOPLE BE COMPETING FOR THESE RESOURCES?

IS THAT PART OF THE SCARCITY MIND SET?

HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN WRONGED IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> I THINK WE ARE JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF A MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY THAT IS HAVING THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW.

BUT I GUARANTEE YOU THAT IF YOU GO TO DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES WITHIN NEW YORK STATE OR WIDER, THEY'RE ALSO HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS AND ALSO LOOKING AT HOW POLICY HAS AFFECTED THEM OR TRYING TO DO ADVOCACY WORK TO CHANGE POLICY OR GET RESOURCES.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, BUT I CAN DEFINITELY HAVE DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT REFUGEE COMMUNITIES HERE OR MUSLIMS OR CAMBODIAN FAMILIES.

SO I CAN HAVE DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS ALL AT ONCE AND SO CAN OTHER COMMUNITIES AND ALSO I THINK RIGHT NOW WE ARE TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT BLACK REPARATIONS, BUT THAT DOESN'T DISMISS OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE ALSO DO THE SAME WORK AND HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION.

>> I WANT TO PIGGY BACK ON WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.

WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ALL OF THE CONVERSATIONS AT ONCE.

WE DO NEED TO HAVE ALL OF THE CONVERSATIONS.

I DON'T WANT TO IGNORE, YOU KNOW, WHAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN THROUGH, WHETHER IT'S NATIVE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, LGBTQ LGBTQIA FOLKS OR REFUGEES.

WE ARE NOT SAYING THEY DIDN'T.

WE ARE JUST SAYING WE D. AND BECAUSE WE DID, WE DESERVE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION AND TO SEE WHAT RIGHT LOOKS LIKE FOR US.

NOT TO SAY THAT THE CONVERSATIONS SHOULD NOT OR HAVE NOT HAPPENED, BUT THEY ALL SHOULD HAPPEN.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO FORCE IT INTO ONE CONVERSATION.

SCARCITY MIND SET HOLDS US BACK.

IF THESE PEOPLE DO THIS, WE ARE ONLY GOING TO GET THIS.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO HELP EVERYBODY.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO RIGHT THE WRONGS OF THIS COUNTRY.

WE JUST NEED THE COURAGE AND POLITICAL WILL DO SO.

JUST WANT TO REMIND FOLKS SPECIFICALLY TO YOUR EXAMPLE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

THEY MARCHED RIGHT ALONGSIDE BLACK PEOPLE DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS.

THE 2020 PROTESTS FOR GEORGE FLOYD, THEY MARCHED RIGHT ALONGSIDE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE 2024 PROTESTS.

THERE IS A CAMARADERIE OF FOLKS THAT ARE ON THE MARGINS OF A SOCIETY THAT CREATES A SYSTEM WHERE WHITE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR.

I DON'T THINK THE TARGET IS RESOURCE SCARCITY OR A SCARCITY MIND SET.

I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE TRYING TO DECONSTRUCT A SOCIETY THAT DOES NOT VALUE PEOPLE OF COLOR THE SAME WAY THEY VALUE THEMSELVES OR SEE THEMSELVES.

AND SO IT'S NOT A MATTER OF, WE THINK YOU GOT IT BAD, I GOT IT WORSE BECAUSE WEEK ALL SAY THAT.

BUT HOW DO WE UPLIFT THE PEOPLE IN THE MARGINS WHO HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY HARMED BY THE CREATION OF A RACE-BASED AND CLASS SYSTEM.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED, MAURICE, THE IDEA OF POLITICAL WILL.

SOMETHING LIKE THE REPARATIONS COMMISSION THAT WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW MINUTES AGO WAS WIDELY CHAMPIONED BY DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF IT GOT MORE THAN A HANDFUL OF AFFIRMATIVE VOTES FROM REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS.

ALL THE ISSUES WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, ARE THEY SOLELY THE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BE CHAMPIONED BY DEMOCRATS?

ARE REPUBLICANS IN ONONDAGA AND THE COUNTY LEGISLATURE YOU ARE WORKING WITH, ARE THEY WILLING TO EMBRACE THOSE ISSUES?

DOES IT MATTER?

CAN IT BE THE BALLY WEEK OF ONE PARTY MOVING FORWARD.

>> I HOPE NOT.

I HOPE WE CAN HAVE THE CONVERSATION AS AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST AS DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS OR INDEPENDENTS.

A LOT OF EDUCATION NEEDS TO BE DONE.

THE ARC OF HISTORY BEND TOWARDS HISTORY BUT SLOWLY.

IF YOU THINK OF THE CONVERSATION THAT REPUBLICANS ARE HAVING TODAY, TECHNICALLY IT IS PROGRESS FROM THE CONVERSATIONS THEY WERE HAVING IN THE 60s.

LIKE THAT CONSERVATIVE MIND SET HAS MOVED.

IT'S NOT MOVING NEARLY AS FAST AS I WOULD WANT TO, BUT I THINK IF WE BROUGHT FOLKS TO THE TABLE AND EXPLAINED, THAT IS WHY I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE COMMISSION BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HAVE DATA THAT WE CAN SAY LOOK, THESE THINGS HAPPENED.

THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, MY ASSUMPTION.

THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT THAT THESE PEOPLE BENEFITED FROM THIS ACTION.

AND HERE IS HOW WE UNDO IT.

I THINK THAT WHEN WE HAVE THAT DATA, WHEN WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION THAT LIKE PLAINLY, I THINK OTHER FOLKS WILL COME ALONG.

>> ALTHOUGH I THINK NELSON ROCKEFELLER OR JACKIE ROBINSON REPUBLICAN WOULD NOT HAVE A LOT IN COMMON WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THEY SEE TODAY.

>> ALSO TRUE.

>> A WHOLE OTHER ISSUE.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

ONE OF THE ONCE HIGHLIGHTED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND SPECIFICALLY THE SORT OF RACISM THAT IS INGRAINED WITHIN THIS INSTITUTION.

AND SARHIA, YOUNG PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR DOUBTS OF THIS INSTITUTION MOVING FORWARD WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND IT'S CAPACITY TO POLICE WITHOUT SORT OF BEING RACIALLY MOTIVATED?

COULD THERE BE COLOR BLIND POLICING IN THE FUTURE?

>> I THINK THAT'S SUCH A LONG ROAD.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF EDUCATION FOR BOTH PARTIES.

I THINK TORE ME A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT HAPPENED WHEN IT WAS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SECURITY AND WITHIN THE SCHOOLS.

FOR A LOT OF STUDENTS, THEY SHARED THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH INTERACTING WITH THE POLICE STARTING FROM A YOUNG AGE, WITHIN HIGH SCHOOL.

SO I THINK IT STARTS WITH HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THE HANDS OF BRUTALITY FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR YEARS STARTING AT YOUNG AGES AND HAVING TO BUILD TRUST WITH THEM BUT ALSO GOING TO LAW ENFORCEMENT, HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY ARE DOING THE HARM OR NOT, WHETHER IT BE, YOU KNOW, ONE BAD APPLE IN THE GROUP OR NOT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS AND EDUCATE THEM AS WELL AND ALSO EXPLAIN TO THEM LIKE THESE COMMUNITIES NEED TO BUILD TRUST TO KIND OF FEEL SAFE ENOUGH TO CALL YOU ET CETERA.

>> IS IT A CASE OF BAD APPLES OR IS IT THE ISSUE WHERE THE CONTAINER FOR THE APPLES HAS BEEN SPOILED AND YOU KEEP PUTTING APPLES THERE AND IT KEEPS GETTING RUINED.

>> I THINK IT'S BOTH.

BECAUSE WE TALK ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM AND THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN BUILT UPON SLAVERY, POLICE IS ONE OF THEM.

I THINK IT'S A MIX OF A ROTTEN FOUNDATION AND PEOPLE COMING INTO THE FOUNDATION THAT DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE OR DO NOT WANT TO ENTER COMMUNITIES WITH A MORE POSITIVE AND EDUCATED MIND SET.

>> THERE IS A GENERATIONAL DIVIDE IN HOW BLACK PEOPLE THINK ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THIS IDEA OF INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND THEIR FAITH IN THE INSTITUTION.

WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS A DIVIDE?

>> I THINK THERE IS A DIVIDE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS A SHARED NARRATIVE ACROSS GENERATIONS.

AND I THINK FOR A LONG TIME THE NARRATIVES WERE POLICE ARE HERE TO SERVE AND PROTECT AND THOSE ARE FOLKS THAT YOU CALL AT FIRST POINT OF CONTACT WHEN A CRIME IS BEING REPORTED.

AND I THINK THAT NARRATIVE IS SHIFTING NOW BECAUSE COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY WITH LIKE THE CELL PHONE CAMERAS, ARE STARTING TO REALIZE POLICE CREATE WHEN THEY'RE CALLED TO A SCENE AND I THINK THERE IS THAT KIND OF IDEA, LIKE WHAT IF I'M WALKING DOWN THE ALLEY AS A WOMAN AND I'M BEING RAPED AND WE NEED TO CALL THE POLICE?

WE NEED SOME KIND OF PROTECTION BUT THE DATA SHOWS, IN FACT, MOST CRIMES GO UNSOLVED.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT POLICE OFFICERS DON'T HAVE A PLACE IN OUR SOCIETY.

BUT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A RECKONING WITH THE NARRATIVE OF WHAT THEIR PLACE IS?

ARE THEY THE BEST PEOPLE TO CALL IN A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS OR BEST FOLKS TO DEAL WITH HOMELESS PEOPLE OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE INCIDENTS IS THIS I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE USE OF POLICE IF OUR SOCIETY AND OVER GENERATIONS, THEY HAVE BEEN TASKED WITH DOING THINGS WAY OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE ORIGINAL JOB REQUIRED AND IT DOESN'T HELP THAT THEY'RE WALKING AROUND WITH QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

SO WHATEVER THEIR ACTIONS ARE, THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH PROTECTED BY OUR STATE CONSTITUTION AND STATE LAWS.

RECENTLY THE PASSAGE OF THE 58 LEGISLATION TRYING TO GET TRANSPARENCY OR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR WHAT POLICE OFFICERS OF DOING HAS BEEN FOUGHT WITH SO MUCH DISMAY WHERE THEY'RE REFUSING TO COMPLY WITH THE LAW AND COMPLY WITH THE DATA TO THE COMMUNITY OF HOW MANY OFFICERS HAVE BEEN INDICATED IN AN INCIDENT, RIGHT?

SO JUST TRYING TO GET A POLICE RECORD HAS BEEN A HUGE CHALLENGE.

THE SYSTEM OF POLICING, WHEN YOU CAN'T GET A CLEAR IDEA OF WHO IS DOING WHAT AND WHERE THEY'RE DOING IT AND UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY WHEN DOING THOSE THINGS.

>> FOR VIEWERS WHO MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR, QUALIFIED IMMUNITY HAS TO DO WITH THE IMMUNITY THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT ENJOYS IN TERMS OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND LEGISLATION THAT IS KICKING AROUND THE CAPITOL AND THE REFERENCE TO 50A HAS TO DO THE DISCLOSURE OF PERSONNEL RECORDS, SPECIFICALLY SO THAT PEOPLE CAN FIND OUT ABOUT SOME OF THE WRONG DOINGS THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT MIGHT HAVE COMMITTED.

AS SOMEONE IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT, SHERIFFS ARE A COUNTY INSTITUTION.

HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR OVERSIGHT RESPONSIBILITIES OR YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO WORK WITH THIS INSTITUTION?

DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO TRY TO UNDERMINE IT FROM WITHIN?

DO YOU NEED TO DISMANTLE THE ONONDAGA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT?

OR DO YOU THINK THAT YOU, AS A LAWMAKER, HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY TO CHANGE THE INSTITUTION OR MAYBE YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THE ONONDAGA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IS DOING A GREAT JOB.

>> AS A LAWMAKER, WE ALWAYS HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO TRY TO DO THINGS BETTER.

I WANT TO PIGGY BACK OFF SOMETHING ABOUT HOW WE HAVE GIVEN OUR OFFICERS TOO MUCH ROLES.

THEIR JOB ORIGINALLY WAS PROTECT AND SERVE.

WE'VE DONE THAT WITH A COUPLE DIFFERENT AREAS IN OUR COMMUNITIES, THE BIGGEST ONE IS TEACHERS WHERE WE ASK TEACHERS TO DO EVERYTHING AND THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE HERE FOR.

THEY'RE HERE TO TEACH.

POLICE OFFICERS ARE HERE TO PROTECT US.

BUT IT'S GONE TOO FAR.

I WANT TO SAY IT'S SYSTEMIC THE BAD APPLES ARE TRULY BAD APPLES BUT THE CONTAINER ITSELF IS BAD.

WE HAVE TO CREATE POLICY CHANGES LIKE 50A, LIKE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

WE HAVE TO BE CONSCIOUS ABOUT MAKING THE SYSTEM BETTER.

THE SYSTEM ITSELF IS RELUCTANT TO CHANGE AND YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF THAT WITH OFFICERS, WHENEVER YOU TRY PROPOSE ANY CHANGE, YOU ARE GOING TO GET PUSH BACK.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT COURAGE.

ONE, YOU KNOW, THING I WANT TO FIGHT FOR HERE IS OUR BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED.

I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE SHERIFF AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM.

BUT WE HAVE TO BE HONEST ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE OUTCOMES OF THESE DECISIONS AND UNTIL WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE THAT TRANSPARENT BLACK AND WHITE CONVERSATION THAT THESE THINGS ARE CAUSING HARM, WE NEED TO CHANGE THEM.

UNTIL WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO GET THAT PROGRESS.

>> I'M GOING TO TAKE YOU BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT.

BLACK LEADERS MUCH OLDER THAN YOU USED TO PUSH A NARRATIVE ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, AND YOU KNOW, PICK UP YOUR PANTS AND STOP DOING RAP MUSIC AND YOU CAN JUST, YOU KNOW, LIFT YOURSELVES OUT OF POVERTY.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A NARRATIVE THAT HAS LOST A LOT OF STEAM IN THE CURRENT CONVERSATION AS THERE IS MORE ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF INSTITUTIONAL RACISM, THE CHALLENGE THAT PEOPLE FACE FROM THEIR BIRTH.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AS PART OF THIS CONVERSATION IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE OF BLACK NEW YORKERS?

>> I THINK IT GETS REALLY COMPLICATED BECAUSE AGAIN WE ARE NOT ALL A MONOLITH.

I THINK SOME PEOPLE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PICK THEM UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, ESSENTIALLY.

BUT SOME PEOPLE DON'T.

AND THAT COULD BE FOR A MULTITUDE OF REASONS.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT POVERTY, ESPECIALLY IN SYRACUSE AND CENTRAL NEW YORK, I THINK ABOUT IT LIKE A CIRCLE WHERE, OKAY, YOU MIGHT HAVE A JOB.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION.

AND THE PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS NO THE GREAT.

SO WHAT IS YOUR NEXT OPTION?

EITHER YOU DON'T GO TO WORK AND YOU DON'T PAY YOUR BILLS OR YOU TRY TO NAVIGATE AND PAY FOR AN UBER BUT THAT COSTS MONEY.

WE ARE LIVING IN A CHILD CARE DESERT.

SO HOW CAN PEOPLE DROP OFF THEIR KIDS AND MAINTAIN GOING TO A JOB OR GOING TO SCHOOL.

WE LIVE IN A FOOD DESERT.

SO THERE ARE SO MANY LAYERS WHERE I THINK IT ENABLES THEM TO PICK THEMSELVES UP.

AND OF COURSE I DON'T WANT TO JUST ASSUME WHAT I THINK ABOUT THESE COMMUNITIES LIKE OH YOU ARE NOT TRYING YOUR BEST.

YOU ARE TRYING YOUR BEST WITH THE RESOURCES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

SO I THINK FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MEANS, YES, IT IS UP TO YOU TO DO X, Y AND Z.

BUT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T AND HAVE HURDLES SET IN FRONT OF THEM CONSTANTLY, I THINK IT WOULD BE UNFAIR TO POINT THE FINGER BACK AT THEM.

>> IS AN EQUITABLE PLAYING FIELD SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK IS ACHIEVABLE SAY IN YOUR LIFETIME?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO THINK SO.

MAYBE MY SON'S LIFETIME.

HE IS SIX.

SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF NOT MINE, MAYBE MY SON'S LIFETIME.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK TO CHANGE THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF A SOCIETY THAT HAS BEEN SET IN ITS WAYS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AND THAT NARRATIVE OF PICKING YOURSELF UP FROM YOUR BOOTSTRAPS HAS BEEN INGRAINED IN US FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AND I THINK THERE IS THE IDEA THAT ONE DAY IT WILL DIE OFF BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE BECAUSE RACISM WOULD HAVE DIED OFF.

IT DOESN'T DIE OFF WITH THE FOLKS WHO ARE OLDER THAN US.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A REALLY CONCENTRATED EFFORT TO OVERCOME THOSE NARRATIVES AND UNFORTUNATELY OUR PUBLIC EDUCATION IS UNDER ATTACK RIGHT NOW.

CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS UNDER ATTACK RIGHT NOW.

SO WHERE ARE FOLKS GOING TO LEARN THE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW RACISM AND HOW IT IMPACTS OUR SYSTEM AFTER NOT BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOL AND THE GENERATION BEFORE THEM DOESN'T HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING.

I THINK THAT'S DONE BY DESIGN AND IS ALLOWING HISTORY TO CONTINUE TO REPEAT ITSELF.

>> CAN WE LEGISLATE HEARTS AFNTD MINDS AND A CHANGE IN PERCEPTION OR IS IT GOING TO TAKE SOME SORT OF EDUCATION AND CULTURAL MOVEMENT MORE BROADLY.

>> I IT'S GOING TO BE THE GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS CHANGING HEARTS AND MINDS.

I THINK PLACES LIKE TIKTOK AND GRAM WHERE INSTAGRAM WHERE PEOPLE ARE HAVING PROGRESSIVE IDEAS AND WE ARE HEARING MORE FROM OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAN EVER, I MEAN I FOLLOW A COUPLE TIKTOK PAGES OF INCREDIBLE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE INCREDIBLY BRIGHT.

AT 18 I WAS NOWHERE AS BRIGHT AS THIS PERSON WAS BUT I ALSO DIDN'T HAVE ACCESSES TO RESOURCES AT MY FINGERTIPS LIKE PEOPLE DO.

I DIDN'T HAVE GOOGLE WHEN I WAS 18.

WE HAD AOL IS ALL WE H. WITH THE INFORMATION ERA AND TECHNOLOGY CONTINUES TO BUILD, I I AM HOPEFUL THAT THE GENERATIONS UNDER ME ARE GOING TO BE THE FOLKS THAT ARE KIND OF SPEARHEADING THE HEARTS AND MINDS CHANGING THE STATE AND COMMUNITY REALLY NEEDS.

>> IS TECHNOLOGY A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD.

TWITTER HAS BEEN MOBILIZED BY WHITE POWER PEOPLE.

>> IT CONDITIONAL-- IT CAN BE A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD FOR THAT REASON.

IT CAN BE EMOTIONALLY EXHAUSTING AND TAXING TO CONSTANTLY SEE THINGS YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR AND YOU THINK IT IS CHANGING AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS AND YOU ARE BACK TO SQUARE ONE.

I THINK IT CAN BE EMOTIONALLY TAXING AND IT CAN ALSO BENEFIT OTHER SIDES OF ARGUMENTS THAT NECESSARILY MIGHT NOT BE ON THE SIDE OF.

BUT I THINK OVERALL, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO THAT TYPE OF INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I THINK EDUCATION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT WHEN WE WANT TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS.

AND HAVING PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE THINGS AT THEIR FINGERTIPS IS ALSO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

>> AND SARHIA FOR PEOPLE NOT HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS AS PART OF THEIR SCROLLING AT NIGHT TIME, A LOT OF WAY THEY'RE GOING TO SEE THESE ISSUES, ENGAGE WITH THESE ISSUES IS THROUGH THE MEDIA.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WELL MEANING WHITE PUBLIC MEDIA HOSTS, HOW CAN THEY... [LAUGHTER] I'M NOT-- I'M JUST... WHAT DO YOU THINK IS BEST WAY FOR THOSE GUYS, HANDSOME AS THEY MAY BE-- TO GO ABOUT DOING THEIR JOB SUCCESSFULLY?

>> I THINK HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS AND ENCOURAGING FOR YOUR NEWS, TO BRING ON PEOPLE LIKE US IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND EVEN JUST GOING OUT OF YOUR WAY TO DO RESEARCH PRIOR TO COMING ON HERE IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT AND JUST GOING BACK HOME AND DOING IT YOURSELF AS WELL.

I THINK EDUCATION CAN START FROM THE HOME.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO START FROM YOUR JOB OR SCHOOL.

IT CAN BE A VERY SIMPLE BEGINNING TO JUST GO ON YOUR COMPUTER, OPEN A BOOK AND ALSO BE OPEN MINDED AND ALLOW YOURSELF TO KIND OF BE ABLE TO BASE ARGUMENTS OR OPINIONS THAT MIGHT NOT BE OF YOUR OWN.

>> ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO FRAME ISSUES OR TO ASK QUESTIONS?

>> I MEAN I THINK, IN TERMS OF YOUR SCENARIO OF THE WELL MEANING... >> OR JUST IN GENERAL, WHOEVER... >> NON-HANDSOME.

>> THE U IM GOS.

[LAUGHTER] >> I MEAN I GUESS I JUST WANT TO ECHO EXACTLY WHAT SARHIA SAID IN TERMS OF DOING YOUR OWN INDIVIDUAL RESEARCH, FINDING THE RESOURCES THAT CAN GUIDE YOU TO THE INFORMATION YOU ARE LOOKING FOR BUT TRY TO BE UNBIASED IN YOUR RESEARCH AND KNOW BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY.

AS AN ATTORNEY, WE ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE OTHER SIDE IS GOING TO ARGUE TO ANTICIPATE A REBUTTAL OR MAYBE THEY HAVE A GOOD EFFECT FACTS.

I DON'T THINK RACISM HAS GOOD FACTS.

BUT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN IN THE WAY THAT YOU ARE DRAWING A CONCLUSION THAT IS FAIR AND UNBIASED.

>> ANYONE WITH A PLATFORM, I DO THINK THAT TO QUOTE, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT BEN PARKER, WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY.

IF YOU ARE SOMEONE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE IN THE PUBLIC EYE, PEOPLE LISTEN TO YOU.

YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE IN THE PUBLIC EYE.

YOU CAN BE A FOOTBALL TEAM COACH AND YOU HAVE THESE ASPIRING PEOPLE LOOKING TO YOU, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE JUSTICE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE RIGHT.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THE RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE ASSERTIONS.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO, YOU KNOW, BE THAT ROLE MODEL.

I THINK WE NEED A LOT MORE OF THAT IN OUR SOCIETY WHERE WE ARE ALWAYS LIKE, HE WILL DO IT.

SOMEONE ELSE WILL BE THE ONE TO EDUCATE THESE PEOPLE WHERE, NO ISIS PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO BE YOU.

IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE FOOTBALL COACH.

THAT BOOK CLUB LEADER.

PROBABLY GOING HAVE TO BE US TO TAKE THOSE STEPS BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING HAS NOT BEEN WORKING.

THE SCHOOLS ALONE HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE JOB DONE, THE POLITICIANS ALONE HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE JOBS DONE.

SO WE NEED TO STEP UP AND DO MORE AS A SOCIETY.

>> MAURICE OPENED THE DOOR BY TALKING ABOUT SPIDERMAN SO WE HAVE MILES MORALES, AND THAT IS CHANGING PERCEPTIONS ABOUT OUR SUPERHEROS.

AIS WE TALK ABOUT AND THINK ABOUT POP CULTURE AND THE ABILITY TO INFLUENCE MINDS, IS THAT AN AVENUE THAT IS GOING TO POTENTIALLY HAVE MORE OF AN ACTUAL SUCCESS RATE THAN, SAY, POLITICIANS WHO MIGHT TRY TO LEGISLATE THESE ISSUES?

>> HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW.

AND I THINK WHAT IS FUNNY IS LIKE, YES, WE HAVE MILES MORALES AND I FORGOT THE ACTRESS WHO PLAYED IN LITTLE MERMAID.

WE HAVE THESE PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA WHO LOOK LIKE US AND THAT'S AMAZING AND WE HAVE PEOPLE PUSHING BACK SAYING THAT'S NOT ACCURATE.

>> NOT MY MER MID-- NOT MY MERMAID.

>> IT'S GREAT BUT ALSO REPRESENTATION COMES FROM THE FORM OF YOUR OWN COMMUNITY.

WHO ARE THE LEADERS WITHIN THESE SPACES OF YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND I THINK THAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO HAVE PEOPLE COME INTO THE CLASSROOM AND SEE A TEMPERATURE THAT LOOKS LIKE THEM, TO SEE A TEACHER WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM OR COME TO A SPORTS TEAM AND SEE SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM.

PART OF IT IS POP CULTURE AND THE OTHER PART OF IT IS DAY TO DAY.

USUAL IN A CLASSROOM WITH A TEACHER FOR EIGHT HOURS, I THINK THAT POP CULTURE IS IMPORTANT BUT I THINK ALSO REPRESENTATION CAN COME IN MANY FORMS.

>> ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC RIGHT NOW AS YOU TACKLE THESE ISSUES?

DO YOU FEEL YOU ARE MOVING THE BALL DOWN THE FIELD?

OR DO YOU FEEL-- >> I WOULD HOPE I AM.

I REALLY HOPE I AM.

I HAVE DIFFERENT PROJECTS GOING ON ALL AT THE SAME TIME AND I HOPE ALL OF THEM HAVE SUCCESS.

I HAVE MY OWN MEASURE OF SUCCESS.

I HOPE FOR ME, THEY ALL IMPACT MY COMMUNITY IN A POSITIVE WAY.

SO I THINK, FOR ME, RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK I'M STUCK.

I'M PURSUING MY DEGREE.

I'M A JUNIOR, ON TRACK TO GRADUATE AND I HOPE TO USE MY DEGREE TO IMPACT MY LOCAL COMMUNITY AROUND ME.

AND I CONTINUE TO DO THAT EVERY DAY WHILE I'M ON CAMPUS.

>> YOU ARE LIVING THESE ISSUES ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS AND I HAVE TO IMAGINE IT WOULD BE EASY TO BE CYNICAL.

ARE YOU A GLASS HALF EMPTY OR GLASS HALF FULL PERSON WHEN IT COMES TO THE ISSUES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, SPECIFICALLY THROUGH THE LENS OF NEW YORK STATE?

>> I'M A FOREVER OPTIMIST.

I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SO MANY FANTASTIC ORGANIZATIONS GREAT BROOTS ORGANIZATIONS AND SO MANY LEGISLATURES WHO ARE HELPING TO PUSH THOSE GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION MISSIONS AND WORK AGO LONG SIDE COMMUNITIES TO TRY TO MAKE CHANGE.

I'M A FOREVER OPTIMIST.

I THINK WE ARE IN A REALLY IMPORTANT TIME IN HISTORY WHERE YOU ARE SEEING ALIGNMENT WITH OUR LEADERS IN OUR STATE AND ALSO GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS DIRECTING THE NARRATIVE.

THERE HAVE BEEN A FOO YOU EXAMPLES OF THAT ACROSS THE FEW YEARS THAT OKAY, I THINK WE CAN FINALLY GET THERE.

>> YOU HAVE 15 SECONDS.

THIS IS A MUCH MORE CONCISE QUESTION.

OPTIMIST OR PESSIMIST.

>> OPTIMISM OPTIMIST.

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TODAY.

WE'LL END IT ON THAT OPTIMISTIC NOTE.

MY THANKS TO ONONDAGA COUNTY LEGISLATOR MAURICE BROWN, THE NEW YORK CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION'S LANESSA OWENS-CHAPLIN, AND SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY STUDENT SARHIA RAHIM.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO REVISIT THIS EPISODE - OR DIG INTO THE CONNECT NEW YORK ARCHIVES - VISIT WCNY.ORG/CONNECTNEWYORK.

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ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM AT WCNY - I'M DAVID LOMBARDO - THANKS FOR WATCHING.