♪♪ ♪♪ >> Howard Robertson, the C.E.O.

of SpotSet Radio Network, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> We are most honored to have Howard Robertson, the C.E.O.

of SpotSet Radio Network and the C.E.O.

of ODE Audio.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you very, very much.

I appreciate being here.

>> You were actually born in Memphis.

>> Born and raised.

Yeah.

>> And Memphis, Tennessee, as you know, is one of the cradles of the civil-rights movement.

But it's also in terms of Black radio, Memphis is an historic place.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Talk to us about the importance.

I think this is the 75th anniversary of Black radio in America.

>> That's correct, that's correct.

>> So talk to us about Memphis.

>> Growing up when I did in Memphis and those others of us who grew up in Memphis, and even in the South, Dr. Ben, we were like so many Forrest Gumps, just stumbling into history.

I actually grew up just totally exposed.

I grew up in the oldest Black church in Memphis, and I grew up with the Martin brothers.

Now, the Martin brothers were the ones who owned the Negro League -- Memphis Red Sox, Negro League team, and a number of other Black baseball teams -- Negro League teams back then.

And it was just so fantastic to be in the midst of all of that Black excellence for me, growing up.

Went to the Lincoln University, which includes alums.

Shout-out to the class of '73 -- 1973.

It's called "The Chosen Few."

>> Alright.

>> And, you know, Lincoln had prestigious alums like Thurgood Marshall, like Langston Hughes.

Gil Scott-Heron and I were there together.

As a matter of fact, my band became his Midnight Band.

So my life and background has always -- Well, you talked about WDIA.

That was the first Black radio station -- Black-format radio station.

>> In the whole United States?

>> In the whole United States.

>> What year was that?

>> 1948.

And then the first Black-owned station was WERD in Atlanta.

That was the next year, 1949.

They were the model for how Black radio super-serves, even today, the Black communities all across the country.

>> At one point, Black radio was the drumbeat of the community.

>> Absolutely, absolutely.

When I was growing up in Memphis, it's, you know, where we knew where to line up to march during the movement, where we knew, you know, everything.

All of the information we needed to know, they were the voice and the heartbeat of our community.

>> So, tell us, Howard, how did you first get involved with Black radio?

>> Actually listening to WDIA as a child.

I thought it was something awfully cool about radio and the imagination that it took.

And I was stuck on commercials.

I loved commercials.

Actually, you know who the first advertiser -- national advertiser was to recognize African-Americans and reach out to them via Black radio?

Tide, P&G.

>> Is that right?

>> Interesting that we're Procter & Gamble.

>> After all these years.

>> Absolutely.

Tide was the first advertiser -- national advertiser on WDIA, which was the first Black radio station.

So it was something that intrigued me as a kid, but I couldn't tell anybody that.

So I would tell people I wanted to be a lawyer, like my friend, my good friend.

So, at any rate, we graduated from Lincoln, got accepted to some law schools, but decided that I wanted to get into the advertising business.

So I came back to Memphis and ended up getting a job as a publicist at Stax Records.

So it was the greatest first job out of college ever.

>> Famous Stax Records.

Tells us about the contribution that Stax Records has made.

>> Stax was then was what so many companies are trying to be now.

They were diverse.

They were global.

And for those who might not know the label, they know the artists.

Stax artists included Otis Redding, included The Bar-Kays, included Isaac Hayes, including The Staple Singers, including The Dramatics.

They had a jazz label.

They had R&B.

They had a comedy division.

They had a gospel label.

Reverend Jesse -- Reverend Jesse Jackson was on on the Stax label, with spoken-word albums and sermons and speeches and whatnot, and they were tremendous.

Isaac was the first African-American to win an Academy Award for music for the score from "Shaft."

>> Isaac Hayes.

>> Isaac Hayes.

First one and only the fourth -- It was only the fourth Oscar ever given to a Black person.

>> You now represent significant Black ownership of media and advertising.

Tell us about SpotSet Radio Network.

>> Happy to.

SpotSet Radio Network is a special, proprietary system where we can aggregate radio stations so we -- >> So around the country, not just in Memphis?

>> Around the country.

Around the country.

And so we can form networks.

We've been working with NABOB, National Association of Black-Owned Broadcasters, for over 20 years.

And nobody ever could aggregate those stations into a composite advertising network, so, for easy access for major advertisers.

And SpotSet does that.

So now we work with -- oh, my goodness -- P&G, Dentsu, GM, Kroger, AARP, Pfizer -- so many major, major advertisers.

I will tell you, we talked about the beginnings of Black radio.

Black radio has had its travails.

You know, it's hard to be out here in the skin that we're in and survive, yet alone thrive.

And from an advertising standpoint, Black-owned media has always been left behind.

We still are.

Only 2% -- 2 cents of every local-advertising dollar spent on radio makes it to Black-owned media.

That's a travesty.

>> 2 cents?

>> 2 cents.

>> Of every dollar?

>> 2% of every locally spent advertising dollar on radio.

>> So, after 75 years, you would think for that time period of evolving, that the market share would grow.

>> Right, right.

Well, I mean, the audience has certainly grown, and nobody reaches and effects African-American audiences like Black radio.

Absolutely.

No, it is the trusted voice in the community.

Black radio still is the major media that reaches more African-Americans in a week than any other media.

>> But how does that, at the end of the day, affect Black-owned radio?

>> At the end of the day, there has been a lot of talk, particularly post George Floyd.

My industry seemed to have a collective epiphany, if you will, that, you know, over the years, they had been exclusionary and that they had not been equitable in their advertising buys.

And so you have more major brands and agencies than ever before who have come to that realization, and they say they're gonna do better.

And, you know, at this point, we're all about walking the talk.

You've talked the talk, and now it's time to walk it.

So we are trying to drive at least $75 million in new expenditure and new dollars to Black radio in this, the 75th anniversary of Black radio.

>> What's been the response of corporate America?

>> The response so far, it's coming.

It's coming.

The one who has led the way and been most sincere and aggressive toward alleviating that huge disparity is Procter & Gamble, P&G, led by Mark Pritchard, and we're thankful for that.

And even he says that they haven't done anything yet.

Every year, they are looking to at least double their spend and all of that.

And thankfully, others are following, are beginning to follow suit.

>> So it's an interesting historical note.

You said 75 years ago, Procter & Gamble was the first adverti-- And now, 75 years later -- >> They're leading the way.

They're leading the way as the number-one advertiser.

Now, those things aren't coincidental.

As you well know, Procter & Gamble brands, you know, are woven into the very, very fabric of the Black experience.

>> How are young people today responding to Black radio?

>> They are responding very, very positively to Black radio, but they are consuming it differently.

They are consuming it differently.

You know, if you notice, you hadn't seen a radio in somebody's house like you used to at your house.

At big mama's house and whatnot, they had a big, old radio [chuckling] sitting on a table or sitting in the living room or a console or something like that.

So the consumption is different, because it is all now on digital devices.

>> Do you see a transformation more into a digital format so that the distribution of the audio from radio can be seen by more people?

>> It's got to be for survival, yes.

And back in, oh, 2018, I was at a NABOB conference, and Nielsen people were talking about how prolific people were in terms of listening to Black radio on digital devices.

And I was looking around the room of Black radio station owners, and they might as well have been talking about something happening on Mars, because they did not have the bridge to digital.

And that's why I got the idea to create ODE Audio.

And that, ODE, is a digital platform where we stream Black-owned radio stations and feature Black-appeal podcasts, Black news 24/7, and have access.

So it doesn't matter if you're an, A.M., F.M., or what, you can still be heard.

>> What is the future of Black radio?

>> Future of Black radio -- if we utilize this new technology, which we must, I think the future is very, very bright.

We have to get in.

We cannot be on the back end of this.

We have to be on the front end of this for survival -- for survival.

Radio is not radio like it was when you and I were coming up.

And for it to last, particularly for Black radio, we can't be on the backside of technology or late to the party.

We have got to get out and make sure that our radio stations are in full participation and fully accessible.

We need from a communication standpoint all the assistance we can get in terms of -- You know what we do?

What we do is we reach and affect.

That's what any great marketer does.

They understand how to reach and affect an audience.

And we have the most need in our communities to reach and affect, especially with information -- vital information that has to do with our health and well-being and safety and all of that.

We've got to communicate.

So we need all the help that we need, speaking of communications, from the FCC and and the Congress and everybody else -- everybody else.

We need all things that will enhance our ability to communicate effectively with African-Americans.

>> So, specific, does your network support geotargeting?

>> Absolutely.

We use it.

I mean, I've used it in my business on behalf of the city of Memphis in terms of crime, in terms of reaching and affecting target areas that have certain types of crimes and all of that.

So I know how effective it's been, and I know the potential of how effective it can be.

So in full support of it, yes.

>> Now, you know, you've been involved in radio for a number of years, and there are a lot of mergers, acquisitions.

What is the survivability of Black-owned radio?

>> As you already know -- you already know, as they say -- it's dwindled in terms of since the deregulation.

And that was back, I believe, during the Clinton administration.

The big guys have come in and totally consumed, you know, the available media.

So so many stations have gone away in terms of Black ownership.

There are courageous Black owners of radio stations across the country, Dr. Ben, that get up every morning, put their feet on the floor, and have to go do battle, David against Goliath-type battles, against these big companies that have all the stations.

They've got all the money.

They got all the resources.

They got everything that they need.

Yet these broadcasters have found a way not just to survive, but in some cases found a way to thrive.

So they need and we need more opportunity to get -- I mean, the numbers have gone down -- have gone down in terms of ownership of radio stations and television, particularly television stations.

So it requires work, and I hope everybody, particularly here in Washington, D.C., understands the urgency and the need and necessity to help grow that, 'cause it's not a level playing field for us in this business anymore, unfortunately.

>> The last issue I wanted to ask your expert advice and comment on, capitalization -- the availability of capital to sustain Black-owned businesses in general, but particularly Black-owned media.

Are the banks or financial or private-equity companies -- are they reaching out to help give Black-owned media the kind of financial sustainability that they need to not only experience the digital transformation, but to survive in a changing marketplace?

>> I don't know that they are reaching out across the board.

I think that there are some owners at certain levels, high levels, of which they are aware that they may be reaching out to.

However, midrange and lower level -- and when I say lower, I mean smaller markets.

I mean smaller broadcast markets.

I mean, they're looking at the top-tier markets.

And, you know, when you get to talking about smaller markets or even some mid markets, I don't know that they're reaching out.

I think it's a little better, but they absolutely need to become -- 'cause here's the thing they need to understand.

What they need to understand, clearly, is if you are an African-American entrepreneur and you have reached a certain status and a certain level and you are yet alive, you are still around, it's not 'cause you're lucky.

It's 'cause you're very, very good at what you do, okay?

It's 'cause you are very, very good at what you do.

You have found a way to survive and to do well.

And those are the ones well worth looking at, and that makes a very, very good investment.

>> From your lens and perspective in Memphis, Tennessee, Howard Robertson, how do you see the future of America?

>> I'm glad you asked that, because I am I am very, very concerned about the direction that we're going in.

I'm particularly concerned about our young people.

I don't see the environment as being supportive, productive.

I don't see us nurturing healthy kids.

And [sighs] I think it's because we lack control.

We lack controls.

I think it's because we put stuff out there.

How in the world can you just not control guns?

>> So it needs to be -- and Memphis has a problem of guns.

>> Memphis and everywhere else, there is a problem with guns.

Absolutely.

Memphis has a big problem with guns.

We lack adequate controls over important -- I mean, you know, we've got kids that are being raised on digital devices.

I mean, and the stuff on there, you know, with full access to practically anything on there.

>> You mentioned the importance of giving our kids what they need.

>> Absolutely.

>> Do we encourage those Black-owned radio stations that we still have left, do they bring young people in as apprentices, interns, mentors?

Because to me, the transfer of culture, the transfer of business, you know, doesn't happen by osmosis.

>> That's right.

>> Somebody has to really, with intentionality, make that happen.

So before we end, just give a comment about those programs, you know, that exist, that help give the transfer of information and hope to the next generation.

>> I absolutely believe we need to communicate more effectively, more often, and with better, more enriching information to our young people.

You know, in the old computer days, they'd say, "Garbage in, garbage out."

Right now there's too much garbage in, in terms of the information that our children are receiving, in terms of that.

So we need to do a better job, because, again, they need us.

They need us.

They need guidance.

And most of these voices should be older and wiser and can pour into them and share with them.

>> We appreciate your candor, and we appreciate your commitment.

Howard Robertson, the C.E.O.

of SpotSet Radio Network and the C.E.O.

of ODE Audio, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, formally known as Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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