>> Major funding is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

promotional support is provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive forum for ideas, discussion and insight.

♪ DAVID: Welcome to "Chat Box."

April is jazz appreciation month and we will celebrate a jersey jazz institution, WGBO network, 45 years.

We will speak with the CEO in our second half.

Let's start with the most recent entry into the gubernatorial campaign, his third attempt and the one he promised four years ago, he joins us now.

Welcome back, good to see you.

>> Great to be back, thank you for having me.

DAVID: A nice crowd this week, reminiscing about the election night in 2021, where Republicans picked up seats in the legislature and counties and towns upend down the state.

Last year gave a lot back.

Has the Republican recovered from 2021?

>> I believe it has and I think we will see that in this year's elections, but I'm looking forward to 2025.

The worst kept secret in New Jersey, me running for governor, but it feels great to make it official.

DAVID: I think you said New Jersey is in bad shape.

Is the state in bad shape?

>> We've got the worst property taxes in the nation, it is the worst state in the country to do business, it is nearly impossible to retire in, and we have pockets of success but overall I think our schools are failing our children.

We have kids graduating not on grade level for reading or math, nor are they ready for careers is are not going to college.

We have a lot of work to do and I'm happy to do it.

DAVID: We will get to some policy stuff in a few minutes but politically, the pundits say you and your friend John Bradner occupy the same middleground of the Republican Party.

Are you concerned that in 2025 in a primary, hard-core voters might pick someone who is maybe too far right for the general electorate?

>> Competition makes us better so I welcome anyone into the race.

I'm confident in me as a candidate and our message.

We have a lot of name from being up and down the state.

I'm confident that we will win the primary and deliver a victory in 2025.

DAVID: You fell short by three percentage points in the campaign you noted surprised a lot of people.

You think being able to get out there more will make up the difference?

JACK: I think there's a lot less indifference this time around.

Last time around, Donald Trump had lost by 16 points and that cost a lot of Republicans not to believe.

I told him how close it would be.

They said I didn't think it was the truth.

I think there will be a great Republican turnout this year and you will also see soft Democrats and unaffiliated voters coming out because they like my message.

DAVID: You have evolved on Trump from unfit for office and a charlatan to endorsing him recently and saying the other day I think the country was better off during Donald Trump's four years than Joe Biden's four years.

What changed your mind?

JACK: I think the reason why Donald Trump is ahead in swing states and the race has tightened in New Jersey is because people see what they see.

They see what is going on at the border each day, the lawlessness in the community, the price of groceries, a president who looks too old for the job and a VP who is unqualified.

That's why I believe Donald Trump will win in November.

DAVID: What changed your mind specifically?

I'm curious as to how you go from saying someone is unfit for office to endorsing them.

JACK: I think the first decision in candidate makes is who their VP would be and I was very dissatisfied with Joe Biden's pick of Harris anything a lot of people were.

I voted for Donald Trump last time.

I thought he was the better candidate, the country did well underneath him during his presidency and I think when you compare his four years to the past four years, the decision gets easy.

The choice is binary now, he's the Republican nominee.

DAVID: He's also only a couple years younger than the president.

What is the cut off?

>> I know there is only maybe four years difference in age but he doesn't look nearly as fragile as Joe Biden.

Everybody ages differently but the president doesn't look up to the job and I think a lot of people agree.

That's what you see Donald Trump ahead in swing states in a race that has tightened in New Jersey.

DAVID: You called Abraham when can a role model the other day, I assume you've studied him a little bit.

What you think he'd say about Donald Trump?

JACK: I'm all about Abraham Lincoln because he was about change and we need change in New Jersey.

We've had 25 years of democratic rule in the legislature, we will have eight years of Murphy under our belt in November 2025 and what I say is if you want change, you got to make a change.

Give Republicans a chance, you will like what you see.

DAVID: What would a Blinken say about Donald Trump?

JACK: You would have to ask him.

DAVID: Have to ask a Blinken.

-- Abe Lincoln.

You call him a role model, you have to have one since of -- some sense of what he would think about someone like Donald Trump, is not like Donald Trump is an ordinary guy.

JACK: I was hoping you would talk about New Jersey, we need is a Republican candidate who will unite our party.

People are entitled to vote for who they want to vote for but we also need a candidate that can convince Democrats to support our ideas and somebody who can also track unaffiliated independent voters, not someone who repels them with personal insults or extreme rhetoric.

DAVID: I wonder who you are referring to when you say that because that is a Donald Trump hallmark, but I assume you mean somebody else, yes?

JACK: All I know is I'm going to go out there every day and talk about what I will do for the people of New Jersey as a governor.

We've had a property tax crisis, business tax crisis, took state to retire in and our schools are feeling our children.

David: You said you would overhaul public school curriculum, insuring age-appropriate lessons and focusing on basic skills.

Are there age inappropriate lessons being taught in public schools today?

Jack: I said this in the last campaign and I will say again, I don't think gender ID and sexual orientation are appropriate kindergarten lesson plans.

We need to teach the golden rule, I talked about that the other night, do onto others as you would have you unto you.

Children of any age can learn that lesson.

I also think we should not teach explicit sex acts at two young of an age.

Parents in educational partnership, providing more skills training.

We have kids graduating high school not on grade level for reading and math.

Four out of five in one district alone.

We need to provide more vocational training opportunities because not all kids want or need to go to college.

David: You are not saying there are age inappropriate lessons being taught in our public schools today, you are saying you want to avoid that happening?

Jack: I believe gender ID and sexual orientation in kindergarten is age inappropriate.

David: Is that being taught in our kindergartens?

Jack: It is.

David: In what school districts?

Jack: Across the state.

That came out during Murphy's first term, we talked about that in the last election.

David: Do you think parents in individual school districts should have veto power over curriculum and textbooks?

Jack: I think lesson plans that don't deal with basic life skills like reading, writing and math, there should be some role and respect for parents.

I want an inclusive and safe environment but I believe that environment is safest and most inclusive when we respect to the role of parents.

It is these other lesson plans that wouldn't fall under basic life skills.

David: What kind of mechanism would it require to have something like that in place?

Shouldn't there be a role for educational experts as well?

Jack: I'm sorry, your question is what?

David: I'm saying what with the mechanism be for parents to have a role in saying what curriculum or textbooks are appropriate for their districts?

Are you saying parents should have that kind of veto power?

Jack: I think there are some lesson plans were parents should have some discretion.

I'm not talking about reading, writing and math.

David: I'm try to figure out how you get to that, what kind of mechanism would you set up for parents to be able to have that kind of say?

Jack: Quite frankly I think that's the easy part, giving parents the ability to opt out.

I think that's easy to accomplish good we need to have a conversation on is what subject areas are the areas in which parents should have more of a role in deciding whether or not children are exposed to that curriculum.

David: He also talked about securing our borders.

What borders are the government of sick -- of New Jersey securing?

Jack: When you look at the southern border, I think all 50 states are border states.

I believe it's a matter of national security.

As governor I will try to rally the other governors to be in support of working with the president, putting more pressure on the president to secure the border.

I know Mexico is a very important economic partner to the United States and I think we need to put more pressure on them.

They are allowing people to walk through their country to approach our border.

David: Would governor Jack should really sign -- would governor Jack signed the reform bill?

Jack: I would not, Democrats like to spread the narrative that they are the great protectors of democracy.

The election transparency act of last year is anything but transparent and it came within a blink of an on -- an eye of passing.

They've been in thing but the protectors of democracy in that respect.

David: Some Republicans also signed on to that bill.

Is there room for improvement in the OPRA system?

Jack: Yes, I don't like that people can get the information and sell it for profit and I think it was never the intention of the original bill that just because you got a dog license meant you would be bombarded with promotional things trying to profit off you because they know you own a dog.

I think those were unintended consequences that need to be fixed.

David: Are you a partyline guy or an office block convert?

[LAUGHTER] Jack: First I've heard that title.

I think County parties reserve the right, friendly, to vet candidates.

There is freedom of association.

I think they have the right to free speech.

David: It is budget season, Chris Christie's last budget in 2017 was?

Jack: $26 billion.

David: $35.5 billion.

The current one is $56 billion.

Jack: Unbelievable.

David: How is your budget going to be different?

Jack: It will be very different, everything is on the table.

There won't be pork or dismiss items, there won't be a $58 million French museum in Jersey City.

David: You will line item veto those?

Jack: The governor of jersey has line item veto powers.

If I or the legislature are in disagreement, I hope not, I hope I still have the coattails I had last time, if I have to use the line item veto power I will.

David: I am running out of time.

Programs like StayNJ and anchor, would they be in place?

Jack: You know I find insulting is when New Jersey politicians take money out of your left hand pocket, put it in your right hand and colored rebate and thick of themselves as heroes.

We won't be doing that anymore.

These are all administrative nightmares, thousands of people in Trenton looking over the applications.

A lot of people don't apply because I don't know about the programs.

We need program solutions that are permanent and easy to execute.

What I propose the other night is along those lines.

David: You would scrap Murphy's energy plan.

Should the state move toward alternative fuels?

Jack: I don't have my head in the sand about climate, I believe in climate change and I believe human activity accelerates it that we need a rational energy plan.

Governors plan ends at rational.

That environment a policy about energy policy.

We need -- bad environmental policy and bad energy policy.

We need to move away from fossil fuels, we can do more with renewable.

David: You said you would support or appoint an Attorney General who supports police and parents.

What is the litmus test for that?

Jack: I will have a discussion with who it is I'm going to appoint.

I don't believe school district should keep secrets from parents.

We need an Attorney General as the head law enforcement officer in the state who has the back of the local law enforcement community.

That's not been the case with the current AG.

It's demoralizing to the Minnen women on the front line and they need to know Trenton has their back.

David: All right, Jack announcing his run for governor this week.

Good to see you, we will see you out there.

We never miss jazz appreciation month.

It's an editorial imperative around here.

For the past 45 years it had been at the soul of jazz 88, Newark's public radio station, broadcasting jazz around the world.

Steve Williams is the CEO and joins us.

Welcome back, good to see you.

Steve: Good to see you, thank you.

You were the first person to have me come on and talk a little bit about my beginning journey here at WGBO.

David: The last time I saw you was early June in Jersey City, I don't know if you remember, rooftop lounge during a jam at the Jazz Festival.

Steve: I remember.

David: As always sitting there I was thinking this is just because the music lives in the moment, doesn't it?

Steve: Yes it does, and sometimes you lose sight and sound of the fact that the moment is an ongoing kaleidoscopic, people centric moment.

That night was a perfect example of that.

A lot of folks having a great time.

Having such a good time you forget what time it is.

David: Right, right.

It is unifying music because at its core you have individuals in a group improvising, yet at the same time, swinging collectively.

I OPQ see that in any other music -- I don't think you see that in any other music.

Steve: There are other genres that accentuate the collaborative efforts of musicians, but jazz is unique.

Sui generis, how collaborators innovate and create on the spot, which is one of the more exciting things about being in a jazz environment.

You never really know what will happen.

David: Let's talk a little about this radio station.

We should say I worked at a long time ago.

Celebrating 45 years now.

No radio station format lasts 45 years anymore, few last 45 months to be honest.

You've really got have a mission, don't you?

Steve: Yes you do.

I think that is part and parcel, the reason why WGBO can exist as long as it has.

You really have to be about the audience, the community.

BGO is been about that since 1979.

We are listener centric and unlike most broadcast entities we are maybe even hyper responsive to our community.

David: The marketplace is so different nowadays, you have streaming services, involving tastes, not to mention COVID and the breakdown of civil society in general.

Can you talk about how the place has evolved?

Let's start with programming.

Technology and I imagine even AI has had an impact on the sound of the place, no?

Steve: You are right.

Speaking to the evolution of WBGO, being responsive to our environment, technologically speaking and geographically speaking.

WBGO -- you have to evolve.

We are a technology interest.

We have to be responsive to those forces that surround us.

Not just responsive but inclusive.

Since the station started in 1979, we have continued the evolution.

Years ago we played vinyl -- it is making a comeback now.

We of ALT to compact discs and now -- we evolved to compact discs and now most of what we air is digitally driven, which allows for greater flexibility.

It also allows for greater reach.

Our website allows us to reach listeners outside our service area in the New York, Newark metropolitan area.

Because of the digital transformation BGO has led in terms of radio stations that play jazz and related interests, public media, we are one of the pioneers when it comes to digital components that further our programming.

David: I'm going to be at the vanguard this weekend for Billy Hart.

Places like the vanguard have survived but what is the state of the jazz business?

Venues and artists able to sell music, etc.?

Steve: That is a frequent topic of conversation among jazz purveyors.

How is jazz faring?

Is it surviving, thriving?

My simple response to that is this: Jazz as an artistic pursuit and entity has been with us over a century.

You don't stay around for 100 years if you are not viable.

Things come and go.

Fads and fashions and technologies even come and go.

Certainly in the last 100 years, we've seen several technological and artistic revolutions that have taken place around the world.

Jazz has remained, and not only remained but thrived.

And evolved in that span of time.

Like I said, you don't stay around for 100 years if you don't mean something to a lot of people.

David: How is the jazz scene in Jersey?

The Montclair Jazz Fest, Jersey City jazz fest.

Those cities are doing well and growing but you need more venues, right?

What about Newark?

How are the venues there?

Are we getting more?

Steve: The industry has changed.

As those who are legacy residents of the area, they will tell you there was a time when there were a number of jazz clubs right here in downtown Newark.

Times of changed.

The business of jazz has changed and evolved.

Newark is not at the center of the jazz universe in ways it was decades ago.

However, there are still jazz venues.

One has done a phenomenal job of keeping jazz and all great music and artistic endeavors alive.

You have the Newark Museum of Art, that is also put forth priorities in terms of jazz music.

Soon we will have Newark Symphony Hall, which is going through a renovation and revitalization that will also be a destination for those who are seeking jazz sustenance in the area.

Is not an easy proposition because across the river you have the most active, the most dynamic and if not the oldest, one of the oldest jazz centers in the world in New York City.

So the fact that Newark can still survive in that area speaks to its relevance and the power and vitality of this community as it relates to jazz and other artistic concerns.

David: Steve Williams is the CEO at WBGO in Newark.

Continued good luck and happy birthday to everyone over there.

That is "Chat Box" for this week.

You can follow me on X.

Dive into the "Chat Box" archive when you scan the QR code on your screen.

I am David Cruz, for everyone here, thanks for watching and we will see you next week.

>> Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

Promotional support provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is committed to serious political players, giving them a forum for insight.

♪