>> WELCOME BACK.

OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS POSSIBLE CANDIDATE FOR THE U.S. SENATE PERRY JOHNSON.

OUR LEAD STORY, A BIPARTISAN DEAL IN THE WORKS TO GRANT TAX RELIEF TO NEEDY FAMILIES AND SENIOR CITIZENS.

ON THE OTR PANEL, JONATHAN OOSTING, BEN SOLIS AND RICK ALBIN.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

ANNOUNCER: PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE, A FULL SERVICE AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.

LEARN MORE AT MARTIN WAYMIRE.COM.

AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE WORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

WELCOME BACK TO STUDIO C ON THIS FRIDAY MORNING IN EAST LANSING.

OFF THE RECORD ON THE AIR.

THEY ARE BACK.

WHICH MEANS THE GAMES BEGAN.

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPEN ON OPENING DAY.

>> THE FIRST BANG OF THE GAVEL IN THE MICHIGAN HOUSE WAS IN DEMOCRATIC HANDS.

LIKEWIS, WITH THE FIRST CALL TO ORDER THE I MY SENATE.

THE 148 MEMBERS OF THE MICHIGAN HOUSE MET FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH DEMOCRATS EN CONTROL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN SOME 40 YAS THE 38 MEMBER SENATE DID THE SAME THING WITH THE DEMOCRATS THAT CONTROL FOR THE FIRST TIME YOU GUESSED IT IN FOUR DECADES.

THE HISTORY MAKING BEGINS IN THE M MICHIGAN HOUSES WITH THE FIRST AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE FORMER MARINE AND NOW, FIRST SPEAKER REPRESENTATIVE JOE AND HE WAS NOT CHALLENGED BY THE REPUBLICANS BUT NOT ULTRACONSERVATIVE DID VOTE AGAINST HIM MEANWHILE IN THE NATE FOR THE FIRST TIME STATE HISTORY WAS WEST I MY DEMOCRATIC SENATOR BRINKS BECAME THE FIRST FEE HAIL TO LEAD THE BODY WHICH IS MORE DIVERSE THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT THE GAVEL IS CHANGING HANDS FROM REPUBLICANS TO DEMOCRATS, PEOPLE WHO HAVE IN THE PAST BEEN EXCLUDED FROM THE HALLS OF OW WE'RE DUE TO THEIR RACE, RELIGION, SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR GENDER OR NOW SENATORS.

LEADING THE SENATE REPUBLICANS IN THE MACHINE OR TY ERIC WHO SAYS CITIZENS WANT THIS -- >> WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE CHALLENGES OUR FAMILIES ARE FACING.

COLLEAGUES, THIS IS NOT WASHINGTON, D.C. THANKFULLY.

TIM: PLEDGING TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS SPEAKER TATE WITHOUT CALLING OUT DONALD TRUMP OR OTHERS BY NAME ASKED EVERYBODY TO TELL THE TRUTH.

>> IT IS OUR DUTY TO BE TRUTH TELLERSMENT OUR COMMON ALLEYS ARE GREATER THAN THE DIFFERENCES.

THE NEW HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADER REPRESENTATIVE MATT HALL FROM WEST MICHIGAN WANTS TO MAKE SURE THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS DON'T MOVE THE STATE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION SO THE HOUSEKEEPING CHORES OUT OF THE WAY.

LAWMAKERS AWAIT THE AGENDA AND IN HER STATE OF THE STATE.

JANUARY 25.

LET THE HISTORY MAKING BEGIN.

>> WOW.

WOW.

YOU KNOW.

THERE IS A NEW FIELD IN TOWN.

THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE REALLY, OK. FOR THE FIRST TIME THEY GOT TO REASON THE SHOW SEE AND HOW THEY DO.

THEth LE TALK TAXES THE FIRST THINGS OUT OF THE BOX AND POLITICALS DID AGREEMENT BUT NOT SERIOUS.

NO.

NO.

LE THERE ARE TWO BILLS DUAL BILLS DEMOCRATIC BILL IN THE HOUSE AND DEMOCRATIC BILL IN THE SENATE AND TO NOT ONLY REPEAL THE RETIREMENT TAX BUT THE PENSION TAX BECAUSE IT IS NOT QUITE THE RETIREMENT TAX, HEN, HAS, YOU KNOW, TO INCREASE THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT WHICH IS A BIG DEAL FOR DEMOCRAT THEY FEEL IT WOULD GIVE PEOPLE SAVINGS THEN THEY DID NOT COME THOUGH TABLE WITH REPUBLICANS LAST SESSIONS TO WORK OUT A TAX DEAL THEN HOPING THEY CAN MAKE SOME HEADWAY ON THIS.

LOOK AT THAT.

LOW AND BEHOLD.

WE HAD BIPARTISAN SORT OF DEAL IN THE WORKS WHEN THE REPUBLICAN SAID LET'S DO SOMETHING TO THE EARNED INCOME TAX RED KIT AND THE RETIREMENT THING.

THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, RIGHT INCH SO THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT HOUSE DEMOCRATS ARE PROPOSING 20% OF THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

SENATE DEMOCRATS ARE PROPOSING 30 PERCENT OF THE FEDERAL REF LEVEL BUT RETROACTIVE REGAIN THE CURRENT YEAR SOMEBODY IS ACRONYMING THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER MEET.

IT'S THE ROOTED HERE.

DEMOCRATS HAVE A GREAT TIME AND GREAT MOOD AS NOING AL THE BIG PLANS THEY TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS THEN, ACTUALLY, GETTING THIS EM DONE COULD PROVE TO BE MORE COMPLICATED THEN, I MEAN WE KNOW THE TAX CUTS ARE LIKELY IN SOME FORM BUT WE ALSO FOUND OUT, YESTERDAY, YESTERDAYED FROM THE FISCAL AGENCIES, THEN THAT BECAUSE OF THE GOOD REVENUE NUMBERS FROM THE STATE THAT MAZE TRIGGER SORT OF A LITTLE KNOWN PROVISION IN THIS HE 2015 ROAD FUNDING LAW THAT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY DRIGGER A REDUCTION IN THE INCOME TAX WHICH IS GOING TO COST THE STATE AS WELL.

WHIT NER HAD SHIED I WAY FROM A BROAD INCOME TAX REDUCTION BUT MA MAY BE FORCED UPON HER WHICH COME KLATTS THE REVENUE PICTURE THEN MAKES THISY OF THE EARNED INCOME TAX AND THE PENSION TAX REPEAL A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED SO NEVER AS EASY AS SANING WEEING GOING TO CUT TAX AND THEY WILL HAVE TO GOVERN NOW.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

>> THAT IS A NEW CHAPTER FOR DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT HAD ALL THE LEVERS OF CONTROL FOR ALL OF THIS TIME.

AND I THINK YOU BRING UP AN INTERESTING POINT ABOUT REVENUES.

WE HAVE OVER THE PAST 36 MONTHS OR SO, SEEN UNUSUALLY HIGH LEVEL OF REVENUE COMING INTO THE STATE BOTH FROM STATE REVENUE AND THE FEDERAL MONEY THAT CAME IN WITH COVID, AND THAT MONEY IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE THERE.

SO WHEN YOU START CULTING TAXES AND WHEN YOU START REDUCING REVENUE, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT ON THE LONG TERM.

WE ALL BEEN HERE WITH REVENUES IN THE STATE HAVE BEEN IN VERY BAD CIRCUMSTANCES BE WHERE AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GOVERN WHEN YOU HAVE THAT.

SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH CAN YOU DO?

HOW QUICKLY CAN YOU DO IT?

AND IS REDUCING REVENUE THE THING THAT YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THE MOST AND I THINK IT IS.

I MEAN, GIVEN WHAT THEY LAID OUT.

BUT HOW MUCH IS THAT AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE NOT THIS YEAR, BUT WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE THREE YEARS FROM NOW?

>> YES.

LONG TERM IS ONE THING THAT LAWMAKERS DON'T LIKE TO DO WELL.

THEY LIKE THE HEADLINES THEY GOT THIS WEEK.

HERE IS THE INTERESTING THING.

THE GOVERNOR TIPPED THE HAND YESTERDAY, SHE IS WILLING TO NEGOTIATE WHEN IT COMES TO THE SENIOR CITIZEN TAX THING OR WHATEVER THE HECK IT IS INMUCH OK.

BUT ONLY APLAYS TO PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

THE REPUBLICANS SAID THAT IS A LOSSY IDEA.

THE OF GO NOR SAID YOU KNOW WHAT INTHIS IS ON THE TABLE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS WHICH IS THE APPROPRIATE THING TO SAY.

SURELY.

IT IS INTERESTING AS YOU POINTED OUT IN THE INTROPIECE THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING THEY KNOW THEY ARE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE AS WELL AND WILLING TO WORK BIPARTISAN YOU KNOW, THAT IS, YOU HAVE TO BE SEEN ALSO, YOU KNOW?

DEMOCRATS DO HAVE MAJORITY BUT THEY MIGHT NEED SOME REPUBLICAN VOTES OR SOME SUPPORT ON SOMETHING ELSE.

TIM: MIGHT?

MIGHT?

>> MIGHT.

MIGHT.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW?

IT IS INTERESTING.

THINK THAT THERE IS A SENSE THAT WE CAN GET THIS DONE BUY OURSELVES.

BUT YOU KNOW, I AM TRYING TO REMEMBER WHICH ONE.

ONE OF THE MINORITY LEADERS BROUGHT THIS UP.

NOW HE, THAT IS FINE AND DANDY, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TEAK OVER.

THEN AGAIN, THESE THINGS ARE REPEALABLE SO WHY DON'T WE WORK TOGETHER IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION TO BULLETPROOF THE THING SO THAT IS NO THE CASE THEN SEE IF THAT COME COMES TO PLY.

YEAH.

THERE IS OBVIOUS TRAGEDY HEAR FROM DEMOCRAT THEN START OUT WITH SOMETHING THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET SOME REPUBLICAN VOTES ON.

YEAH.

TAX CUTS WHO DOESN'T LIKE TAX CUT THEN REPUBLICANS HAVE THE OWN IDEA AND REALLY GOING TO VOTE AGAINST A VERSION IN THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT AND SOME OF THEM WILL.

YEAH.

HE WITH YOU SAW THE HOUSE FREEDOM CAUCUS EMERGE THIS WEEK BECAUSE OF RELIABLE NO VOTE ON ISSUES.

YEAH.

THEY ARE THE ULTRACONSERVATIVES TO THE LEFT OF THE TILL.

RIGHT.

RIGHT.

TO THE RIGHT.

A SMALL GROUP SO FAR.

YOU KNOW, THE SPACK ARE YOU SAW MAIN OR TY LEADER SAY WE ARE NOT WASHINGTON DID.

C. THERE IS A GROUP IN THE HOUSES THAT WANTS TO SORT OF WIELD THE POWER THAT THE FREEDOM CAUCUS DOES IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THEN POTENTIALLY THE WORKS IN THIS PROCESS BUT, BUT WITH THAT SAID.

REPUBLICANS WANT TO WORK WITH DEMOCRATS DEMOCRAT WANT TO WORK WITH THE REPUBLICANS OUT OF THE GALE ON THIS TAX CUT ISSUE BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO TRY OTHER STUFF LATER THIS YEAR, THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE BIPARTISAN.

ABSOLUTELY.

THEN THEY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, BUILD RELATIONSHIP THEN GET OFF ON THE RIGHT FOOT.

YEAH.

THINK ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS NO AT TWO-YEAR WINDOW.

THIS IS MAYBE 16 MONTHS AT THE BEST.

BECAUSE YOU GOT A CAMPAIGN COMING UP.

RIGHT.

THAT IS GOING TO BE CONTROVERSIAL OR SOMETHING THAT, AS SENATOR BRINKS POINTED OUT, THEY HAVE 40ER YAS OF PENT-UP IDEAS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN ADDRESSED, AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THOSE SOONER WRATH THAN LATER SO IF YOU START OUT TRYING TO DO SOMETHING IN THE BIPARTISAN FASHION, HEN, YOU HAVE TO GO IT ALONE, THEN, I MEAN, LOOK, KEEPING 56 VOTES IN THE HOUSE ALL TOGETHER FOR ALL OF THESE INITIATIVES AND I WOULD SAY THE SAME THING FOR REPUBLICANS KEEPING 54 TOGETHER THEN, IT IS VERY HARD TO DO, ONE FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE TOLD ME IT WAS LIKE HEARDING MINNOWS THEN TRYING TO KEEP THE VOTES TOWING THEN, YOU GOT MAJORITY BUT, IS IT A MAJORITY WITH WHICH YOU CAN GOVERN?

>> WITH, INTERESTING THIS THING ABOUT IT.

WELL, SOMEBODY IN THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS SAYS YOU KNOW WHAT M WE HAD TROUBLE GETTING PEOPLE UNDER NORMAL,S THEN, NOW, WE HAVE ONE OR OR TWO PEOPLE ABSENT WHAT HAPPENS?

OK.

IN FACT THEY LOOKED AT RULE CHANGE THAT GAVE THEM MY CONTINUE I AND DECIDED NO TOT RUN IT.

CALLY SAID IF OUR GUYS ARE NOT IN HOOKER.

I WONDER WHY THEY DIDN'T RUN THAT?

WELL, WELL, THEY WERE.

>> THEY WERE ALREADY MAKING A STINK ABOUT THAT.

THEN, SO YOU KNOW.

THAT WOULD HAVE AGAIN SORT OF GOT THINGS OFF ON THE WRONG FOOT PERHAPS.

BUT, TO THAT POINT, TIM.

WE WERE TAKE BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED THERE ARE ALSO TWO DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS IN THE HOUSE, WHO HAVE STATED THEIR INTENTION TO RUN FOR MAYORAL POSITIONS THIS YEAR, THEN, SO THAT TWO SEAT MAJORITY BY IN THE OF THIS YEAR, WELL, COULD BE A ZERO SEAT MAJORITY THEN COULD BE BE A SHARED POWER SITUATION BY THE END OF THE YEAR, SO, THE WINDOW FOR DEMOCRATS TO GET STUFF DONE IS EVEN NARROWER IN THAT TWO YEARS OR 18 MOP END, GRANTED THERE WILL BE EVENTUALLY BE A SPECIAL ELECTION TO FILL THOSE SEATS PROBABLY DEMOCRATS WILL WITH IN THEM IS ABOUTED ON DISCRIBBINGS BUT SEVERAL MONTHS THERE WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MAJORITY AND BY THE WAY, THAT IDEA OF SHARED GOVERNANCE, WELL, WORKS PRETTY WELL.

IT DID.

BACK IN 1994.

WELL, YEAH.

YEAH.

YEAH.

I LEAVE GOVERNOR WHITMER WAS AN AIDEN THE TIME AND REMEMBERS IT WELL.

WELL AL MOMENT WE MIGHT HAVE A BIPARTISAN DEAL LIKE TAX NO "KUMBAYA" MOMENT.

THESE ARE SMART ENOUGH POLITICALLY TO NOT TO YAM THIS DOWN THE REB AND'S THROATS NOW.

>> THEY ROLL IT THROUGHOUT.

YEAH.

THE FIRST BILL GUNT MEAN IT WILL TAKE IT UP.

NO, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE THE LOTED VOTEDS TO DO UT.

MAY END, THIS THERE ARE GOING TO BE DEMOCRATS UNDER PRESSURE FROM SOME OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOLKS BACK IN THE HOME DISTRY TO SAY WAIT A MINUTE THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS WE USED TO BRING THIS BATTERY COMPANY OR WHATEVER COMPANY.

THIS WIDGET COMPANY IN HERE.

WELL, REPUBLICANS WILL MAKE THE CASE THAT IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND HELPS BRING COMPANIES INTO THE STATE, IF THEY CAN MAKE THAT.

IF THAT IS JUST VIABLE.

ANY, THEN, THAT KIND OF NIS IN THIS HE FACE OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR TALKED ABOUT AND WANTS MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SO, I AM NOT SURE HOW THAT PLAYS OW, THEN, BUT, I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF YOU GOT 56 IN THE HOUSE WITH DEM DRATS ON THERE.

WHEN THE WHEREIN THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING OUT HERE AND SAYING, LISTEN, WE HED TO WORK TOGETHER TO FIG DURE THESING ON THATS OUT.

WELL SHALL THINK THINK THE REPUBLICANS LIKELY ARE NOT GO TO BE ON BOARD WITH THIS BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, IF THEY CAN FIND SOME SORT OF OLIVE BRANCH EARLY ON AS YOU MENTION THEN THEY COULD TAKE A FEW PEOPLE LOSE.

THE GOVERNOR CONTINUALLY SAID WE CAN BALANCE THE THING OPP ON SCALE AND TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS AND TAKE CARE OF LAB ARE AND WATCH TOP SEE IF YOU CAN PULL IT OFF BECAUSE ONE OF THE EMOTIONAL ISSUES WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIG IN.

YEAH.

YEAH.

WELL, REMEMBER.

I AM SORB TROY INTERRUPT.

REMEMBER THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS WE SAW AT THE CAPITAL ON THE DAY THAT RIGHT TO WORK WENT INTO EFFECT THOSE WERE THE BIGGEST EVER DEMONSTRATIONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ON THE CAPITOL PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC DEMONSTRATIONS BUT I MEAN, IT WAS A GA GAN TICK CROWD WITH A LOT OF EMOTION AND THEN, THAT EMOTION ALL STILL EXISTS THEN LABOR SAID.

OK. NOW WE HAVE CONTROL.

YEAH.

YEAH.

THAT IS IT.

HAKE TO POINT OUT THE TEMPERATURE ON RIGHT TO WORK HAS BEEN SCALED DOWN BIT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS THE SUPREME COURT, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT DID RAUL YOU CANNOT HAVE MANDATORY FEES FOR PUBLIC STEKOR UNION AND FOR PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES SO TO THE EXTENT THAT DEMOCRATS ARE ABLE TO REPEAL THE RIGHT-TO-WORK LAW, IT WOULD ONLY APPLY TO PRIVATE BUSINESSES PRIVATE PENSION AND PRIVATE UNION FOLKS SO HE IT IS SLIGHTLY SMALLER ISSUE THAN IT WAS IN 2012 WHEN HE SAW THE MASSIVE PROTEST WITH THAT SAID IT IS HIGH TONE WILL BE ARE'S WISH LIST AND THE GOVERNOR OBVIOUSLY IS UNDER PRESSURE TO GET IT DONE.

WELL, THE QUOTE WAS, I WILL NOT LEAD WITH THIS.

>> END QUOTE.

ALL RIGHT.

CALLING JOHNSON, THEN, MR.YONP, WELCOME TO OFF THE RECORD.

NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

YOU KNOW WHEN SOMEBODY PUBLISHES A BOOK AM RUNNING FOR OFFICE THIS IS YOUR PRELUDE TO RUNNING ANOTHER U.S. SENATE, SIR?

>> WELL, WELL, TIME WILL TELL.

I WILL TELL YOU, THAT I DO HAVE A VERY BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE THAT WILL BE IN EATERIESING.

INTERESTING.

YOU NO HE THAT I LOVE FOOTBALL.

YOU KNOW, THAT I LOVE FOOTBALL.

MY PREDICTION IS THAT THE LIONS ARE TO WITHIN THE SUPER BOWL NEXT YEAR.

TIM: WITH WELL THE LAST TIME I CHECKED THIS IS NO AT SPORTS SHOW MR. JOHNSON.

THE QUESTION WAS: YOU ARE CLEARLY LOOKING AT RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE, SIR?

>> WELL, I CLEARLY AM.

YOU KNOW?

LAST YEAR I RAN SUPER BOWL AD.

IT WENT OVER REALLY WELL SO I PAY ATTENTION TO THIS COMING SUPR BULL, BECAUSE I WILL BE RUNNING THE AD.

THE AD WILL PROBABLY GIVE YOU A REAL GOOD IDEA OF WHERE I AM GOING.

TIM: YOU HAVE SHOT THE THING?

>> NO.

IT IS ABOUT TO BE SHOT.

TIM: IT WILL SAY, IT WILL SAY I AM RUNNING FOR THE U.S. SENATE?

>> WELL, AMENDMENT NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT IT WILL SAY.

WILL TELL YOU THAT I WILL BE RUNNING AN AD IN THIS HE SUPER BOWL.

I AM NOT TELLING WHERE IT IS GOING TO RUN OR WHERE IN WHAT STATES IT IS GOING TO RUN, BUT IT MAY BE IOWA, IT MAY BE NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT MAY BE MICHIGAN.

IT MAY BE ALL OVER.

BUT I WILL BE RUNNING AN AD.

TIM: WELL, OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS A GREAT TEASE.

SO IF YOU ARE RUNNING AN AD IN IOWA OR NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE U.S. SENATE IN MICHIGAN, SO HAVE YOU JUST TELEGRAPHED THAT YOU INTEND TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?

>> NO, NO.

NO.

NO.

BUT ONE THING IS VERY CLEAR.

THAT IS THAT WE ARE IN A SITUATION RIGHT NOW WHERE EVERYBODY KNOWS I LOVED CAMPAIGNING FOR GOVERNOR AND I THOUGHT IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES IN MY LIFE DESPITE THE FACT THAT I WAS TOSSED OFF THE BALLOT, THEN I WILL TELL YOU, THAT THOUGH FEIG YOU GET WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE AND HELP THE STATE, HELP THE COUNTRY, IS A WONDERFUL FEELING BECAUSE THEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE INSTEAD OF DOING SOMETHING JUST FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY.

AND RIGHT NOW, I THINK THINGS ARE GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTIO DIRECTION, I WAS DELIGHTED WITH YOUR DISCUSSION WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT TAX CUTS I MEAN, TO ME, FROM MAY POINT OF RU, THEY CAN RUN AS REPUBLICANS.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO REDUCE GOVERNMENT, REDUCE TAXES, THEN, I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO GO.

BECAUSE MY OVERALL THEME IS TO SHRUNK THE GOVERNMENT.

THINK I WE NEED TO PUT THE MONEY INTO THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND I THIS I WE HAVE TO STOP SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY.

BUS AS WE SPEND MORE MONEY, THEN WE PUT MORE MACHINE MER AND MORE INTO THE ECONOMY, WE REACHED THE POINT WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE MORE MONEY IN THE ECONOMY THAN WE HAVE THE ABILITIES TO SUPPLY THE GOOD AND SERVICES WHAN HAPPENS?

PRICES GO UP.

THEN I GO THOUGH STORE.

THEN I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED DID YOU NO THAT HE A DOZEN EGGS WERE .50.

THEN IT WOULD BE LIKE ENGLAND WHO SELL IT BY THIS EGG.

THEN, THAT A HEAD OF LETTUCE WA WAS $5 AND I COULDN'T I PAN GIN SPENDING $5 FOR A HEAD OF LETTUCE SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS, THE IMPACT THAT WE HAVE TO THE MIDDLE CLASS, WHEN WE HAVE THE HUGE PRICES, IT IS GIGANTIC.

>> MR. JOHNSON.

BEN HAS QUESTION.

>> LE, WHEN YOU WERE A CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR YOU SAID YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SPEND YOUR PERSONAL WELL ONLY THE REASON AND SHOULD YOU RUN FOR THE SENATE, CAN WE EXPECT THE SAME?

OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

HOW CAN IT NOT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS REALISTIC FOR SOMETHING TO START RUNNING AND NOT REALIZE ITS GOING TO COST A LOT OF MONEY.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT MONEY INTO IT.

THAT IS WITHIN OF THE BIG PEST ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE.

IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO GET ELECT THESE DAYS WITHOUT SPENDING THE MONEY NOW IF YOU ARE END UP HAVING A BIG CAMPAIGN WHERE PEOPLE DONATING, THEN, THE DONATIONS ARE PROBABLY NECESSARY TO KEEP IN MIND, THAT A LOT OFLE TIMES, PEOPLE MAKE DONATION THEN THEY IN SPECK SOMETHING IN RETURN.

SO YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHEN IT COMES TO THAT BUT ANYWAY ANYONE CAN WIN AN ELECTION WITHOUT SPENDING MONEY?

>> JONATHAN?

WELL, MR. JOHNSON, HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU THINK SUCCESSFUL U.S. SENATE CAN PAM WOULD COST AND, HOW CONFIDENT ARE YOU THAT YOU KNOW, THIS ISES A SEAT REPUBLICANS CAN WIN.

WE SAW IN THE LASTING STATEWIDE ELECTION, THAT YOU HOPED TO BE A CANDIDATE FOR, THEN, THEN, DEMOCRATSES DID VERY WELL IN THIS STATE.

>> WELL, THEY DID DO WELL.

THE GUBINATORIAL END.

BUT KEEP IN MIND, YOU JUST GOT DONE TALKING ABOUT THE 3:00 MAJORITY THAT YOU HAVE IN THE HOUSE.

WELL, IT IS TWO-SEAT MAJORITY THEN SOME MAYOR CONTINUE THE SENATE, HEN, HEN, FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

WELL, REALITY IS THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND THE TOP OF THE TICKET THAT REALLY GOT KILLED.

THEN, NOT EVERYBODY AT MITS THAT WAS LANDSLIDE WE LOST BAZE TEN AND A HALF TO 11 POINTS BUT ON N THE OTHER PART OF IT.

WAIT WAS NOT THAT IG A BIG OF A LOSS OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 40ER YAS THE DEMOCRATS DO CONTROL THE HOUSE AND THE NATE.

BUT PITAS VERY NARROW LEAD.

TIM: IF DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES, WOULD YOU LOOK THE ENDORSEMENT?

>> WELL, YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN DONALD TRUMP ENDORSED THE CANDIDATES.

THE REALITY OF THE MATTER IS, THAT HIS ENDORSEMENT CAUSED PEOPLE TO WIN THE PRIMARY.

AND THEN, WE ENDED UP NOT HAVING THE MOST IDEAL CANDIDATE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LET THE NATURAL SELECTION PROCESS PAN OUT.

IF THERES NO ENDORSEMENT WHATSOEVER, THEN, HAPPENED IN VIRGINIA FOR EX AL PE, THE GOVERNOR RACE, THEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE, NOW THE NATURAL SELECTION OF WHAT PEOPLE REALLY WANT TAKES PLACE.

SO WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP ENDS UP ENDORSING SOMEONE IT SLANS IT SO MUCH IN SOMEONE DIRECTION WE DON'T GET TOT SEIZE WHAT THE PUBLIC REALLY WANTS OUT THERE.

THEN I THINK THAT HURTS.

DON'T THINK ANY QUESTION.

LOOK AT THE RESULTS.

>> IS DONALD TRUMP STILL THE MORE OR LESS HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN COUNTRY?

>> WELL, AT THIS POINT HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

KEEP IN MIND.

HE WAS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND AS SUCH WAS THE HIGHEST RANKING PERSON WE HAVE IN THE PUBLIC ENVIRONMENT SO THERE WAS NO QUESTION AT THIS POINT, IF YOU LOOK TOT THE PERSON WHO WOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE FIGURE IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS IT IS STILL GOING TO BE PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> PERRY, BACK TO CAMPAIGN FUNDING, YOU KNOW, YOU DID GIVE MONEY TO CANDIDATES IN 2022 BUT THE PARTY COME LANE THAT DONORS WERE NOT STEPPING UP TO PUSH ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

I WONDER WHAT'S THE TAKE ON THAN ARE THE DONORS TO BLAME FOR THE GOP OR THE QUALITY CAN CANDIDATES THAT SUNK THE SHIP?

>> WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WAS TWOFOLD UNDERSTAND I DID DOE KNIT OVER $100,000 TO VARIOUS PEOPLE IN THE CAMPAIGN AND I THINK I SPENT, I MAY SELF PENT OVER $7 MILLION ON MINE.

YOU WILL SEE THE ACTUAL FIGURES MAYBE IT WAS 7.5 MILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT IN THE HOUSE AND THE NATE I THINK WE GOT TAINTED A LITTLE BIT BUS AS I SAID, WE DID NOT ALWAYS GET THE BEST CANDIDATES DID ELECTED.

HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED IN THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE THERE WERE WHAT?

30 SOME PERCENT UNDECIDE OPP THE FRIDAY BEFORE THE ELECTION THEN, DONALD TRUMP COMES IN, THEN ENDORSE SOMEONE THEN THEY WENT BUY A LANDSLIDE BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT NO ONE LET THE NATURAL SELECTION PROCESS PAN OUT.

3:00 SO THE REAL THINK THE MALTER IS THAT WE WERE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE RESULTS OF THESE ELECTIONS AND, WE KNOW THAT PART OF HE REASON FOR THAT WAS THIS WE DID NOT VAT THE NATURAL PROCESS OF LETTING THE PEOPLE CHOOSE THE CANDIDATE THAT MADE THE MOST SENSE THEN I THINK THAT HURT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> DONALD TRUMP IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN IN 2024 AND THE SHARING THE TICKET WITH THE U.S. SENATE NOMINEE POTENTIALLY IF HE WINS THE PRIMARY, WILL YOU BE BACKING HIM FOR PRESIDENT?

>> WELL, I DON'T WHO I WILL BACK FOR PRESIDENT AT THIS POINT.

I HAVE AN IDEA.

BUT IT WOULD BE HARD TO SAY AT THIS EARLY STAGE OF THE GAME.

WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SEE ALL THE DAN CANDIDATES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

KEEP IN MIND, WE HAVE PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT GOT ERECTED IN THE EARLY STAGES AND REALLY KNOW WE WERE GOING TO HAVE PRESIDENT OBAMA AS THE PRIMARY CANDIDATE?

WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE LAST ELECTION IN THE EARLY PART OF THE GAME, DID WE HAVE ANY IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS GOING TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?

I THOUGHT FOR SURE, THE PERSON THAT WAS GOING TO BE ELECTED WAS JEB BUSH.

THINK ABOUT IT.

THINK HE HAD 104 MILLION AND HIS BROTHER WAS PRESIDENT.

HIS FATHER WAS PRESIDENT PRESIDENT THEN HE HAD THE BEST CONNECTIONS ON THE PLANET.

WOULDN'T YOU THINK HE WAS THE MOST LIKELY ONE TO GET ELECTED AT THIS POINT?

SO, IN THE EARLY TAGES, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE PRESIDENT?

THEN IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE GAM YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

WELL, BE WHAT WE DO KNOW IS ONE THING.

THAT THE ELECTION OF PRESIDENT IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT KIND OF GANG, THEN, THEN, AT LEAST 65% OF THE RESULT DEPENDS IN HOW WELL THEY DONE THE PHASE, SO YOU HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DEBATE STAGE AND YOU HAVE TO SEE THE COUNTRY AND UNTIL NOTHING LIKE THAT TAKES HIS WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING TO GO.

RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T HAVE IT.

WHO IS YOUR CANDIDATE FOR REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR, SIR?

>> THAT IS A VERY TOUGH QUESTION.

IN PACK WEED ADDISCUSSION ON THAT.

THINK ARE NUMBERABLE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED AND THEN I AM NOT SURE THAT WE REDONE ANALYSIS TO SEE WHO WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE.

WE DO KNOW ONE OF THE MAJOR COAL GOALS OF SOMEBODY IN THAT POSITION WOULD BE TO BE ABLE TO RAISE MONEY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO RAISE MONEY IN ORDER HERB TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE PARTY.

DO YOU THINK MR. DY PERSON THE AND MR. SAL KNOW CAN RAISE MACHINE?

I.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE TO LOOK BACK.

I DIDN'T SEE WHAT FIGURES CAME OUT AND HOW MUCH MONEY EACH OF THEM RAISED FOR THEIR OWN CAMPAIGNS.

I DIDN'T LOOK AT THAT.

I HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE WHAT WOULD MAKE THE MOST SENSE AND I THINK WE ARE ABOUT TO HAVE A MEETING ON THAT THIS COOING WEEK, BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE WHO WOULD BE THE BEST PERSON TO SUPPORT.

I HELP A LOT OF THE PEOPLE, I LAKE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE AND IN FACT THEY RAZZ FRIENDS OF MINE.

BUT I AM GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> WE ARE GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME.

BUZZ, BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.

DOES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDED TO RECONSTITUTE ITSELF DOES IT NEED TO GET BACK TO THAT DONOR BASE TO BE ABLE TO APPEAL TO THE FOLKS WHO HAVE SUPPORTED THE PARTY OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEARS AND BECAUSE, AS YOU POINTED OUT WITHOUT MONEY YOU DON'T WANT TO RACE?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVES TO DO IS GET BACKING TO THE BASICS AND WHAT IS THE MOST BASIC CONCEPT WHAT REALLY CAUSED ME TO BECOME A REPUBLICAN?

REPUBLICANS BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GETTING TOO BIG.

IT IS BLOATED.

SPENDS TOO MUCH MONEY THEN I THINK, THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO GET BACK TO THE BASIC ROOTS THEN WE KIND OF LOST THAT.

THEN I THINK UNTIL WE DO THAT, WE ARE GOING TO BE LOSING TOUCH WITH THE WHOLE BASE AND CONCEPT REPUBLICAN PARTY IN GENERAL.

BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THAT BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE MORE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.

MR. JOHNSON, WHERE WILL, GIVE US A TITLE OF YOUR BOOK AS LONG AS ARE ON THE SHOW, QUICKLY.

>> THE TITLE BOOK IS TWO CENS TO SAVE AMERICA.

GIVE YOU TWO CENTS FOR THE ANSWER.

WOULD YOU RATHER BE GOVERNOR OR U.S.

SENATOR?

>> THAT IS A TOUGH ONE.

BUT I THINK, IT IS HARD TO SAY.

I GUESS WISE RATHER BE GOVERNOR, BUT THEY WOULD KICK ME OUT.

GOVERNOR.

TIM: MR. JOHNSON, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

KEEP US POSTED ON WHAT YOU WILL DO AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE AD WHERE IS IT GOING TO BE IN THE SUPER WHAT?

THE SEE UPPER BOWL.

ENJOY LIFE.

TIM: YES SIR.

THANKS VERY FOR A GREAT PANEL.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK RIGHT HERE FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD.

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