>>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SPECIAL CORRESPONDENCE OF "OFF THE RECORD."

SOME REPUBLICANS WANT TO SANTOS TO RUN IN MICHIGAN.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR DONALD TRUMP?

DAVE BOUCHER IS TELLING YOU, CHAD LIVENGOOD SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT "OFF THE RECORD".

>>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WELCOME BACK TO "OFF THE RECORD" ON THIS FRIDAY MORNING IN EAST LANSING.

WE HAVE SOME REPUBLICANS, MOST UNNAMED, ASKING THE GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA TO COME ON IN.

HERE IS A REVERSAL BECAUSE SOMEONE COME IN FROM MICHIGAN TO FLORIDA.

>> FOR SURE, THE POLITICAL FOREST BROKE THE STORY AND I'M KIND OF SURPRISED THEY DON'T HAVE A LIST OF NAMES.

WE ASKED THEM AS WELL WHY WON'T YOU RELEASE THE LETTER TO US OR THE NAMES TO US AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE WON'T RELEASE THE NAMES BECAUSE WHEN THEY SIGNED ONTO IT THEY DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO BE PUBLIC RELEASED.

WHICH KIND OF BEGS THE QUESTION AND I MEAN IS THIS I GUESS HOW ARE OUR REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS WANT TO DO THINGS?

IS THIS HOW THEY ARE GOING TO INVITE RON DESANTIS TO MICHIGAN.

>> WHAT DID BRIAN POSS MISTY WITH THIS LETTER?

>> HE SENT IT TO RON DESANTIS.

>> HE TOOK IT TO HIM?

>> DELIVERED IN PERSON.

>> SOMETHING HE WAS PERSONALLY INVESTED IN.

WE DON'T KNOW WHO IS ON THIS LIST AND I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S BECAUSE OF THE OTHER PERSON RUNNING IN THIS RACE -- WE LIKELY ARE GOING TO SEE RON DESANTIS IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

WE HAVE TRUMPETED THE RACE ALREADY AND WE KNOW HE IS VERY INTERESTED IN MICHIGAN SO HE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS LITERATURE.

>> IS THIS A NONSTORY?

>> IT'S STILL A STORY BUT THE FACT HE HAD 16 REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS IN HIDING RIGHT NOW.

THEY WANT RON DESANTIS TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT BUT THEY DON'T WANT DONALD TRUMP TO KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT DONALD TRUMP.

>> SIGNED A LETTER.

>> GO ON HIS TRUTH SOCIAL AND PUT THEIR NAMES OUT AND THEY WILL HEAR ABOUT IT IN THEIR DISTRICTS AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

THEY DO WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

IT'S A PROFILE IN NON- COURAGE AND IT'S QUITE REMARKABLE.

THE ONLY OTHER REP'S REPRESENTATIVE PHIL GREEN FROM THE THUMB AREA.

HE CAME PUBLIC AND SAID I WANT RON DESANTIS TO RUN, I DON'T WANT TRUMP TO RUN AND I'M NOT GOING TO HIDE FROM IT.

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> I'M NOT SURE GOVERNOR DISINTEREST WAS KICKING AROUND WHETHER OR NOT HE WOULD RUN BUT NOW THAT HE HAS A LETTER FROM 16 STATE LAWMAKERS HE'S GOING TO HIS GO TO DIVING.

NOT SURE IT WILL TIP HIM OVER THE EDGE.

FEELS LIKE AFTER THE FACT ALMOST LIKE A LOSE LOSE FOR THESE LAWMAKERS.

THEY ARE TO PUTTING THEIR NAMES ON IT, JUST A LETTER THAT EXISTS.

WE ARE STILL TWO YEARS OUT I WOULD LIKE TO THINK.

EVERY ELECTION STARTS THE DAY AFTER THE LAST ELECTION BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS NECESSARILY MOVING THE NEEDLE BUT IT SHOWED'S TO CHAD SEE CHAD'S POINT THERE IS NEVER ROOM FOR DISSENT, CONVERSATION AT THE PRIMARY LEVEL ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

IN THEORY DONALD TRUMP CAN WELCOME OTHER PEOPLE COMING IN AND SHOW THEM WHY HE IS BETTER THAN GOVERNOR TO SANTOS OR SOMEBODY ELSE BUT INSTEAD IT'S A HIS FEAR OF OFFENDING THE FORMER PRESIDENT THAT IS CONTINUING TO DRIVE REPUBLICAN POLITICS.

>> THIS IS EXACTLY IF YOU WILL WHAT SOME SAY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDS TO DO IS STAND UP TO MR. TRUMP, TAKE HIM ON MONO A MONO AND SAY LOOK AT THIS YOU ARE DONE.

IS THAT NOT A STRATEGY OR IS IT TOO RISKY?

>> I GUESS LIKE -- WHEN RON DESANTIS FIRST EMERGED AS A POTENTIAL CANDIDATE HE HIMSELF WAS TRYING TO CONTRAST HIMSELF WITH TRUMP.

FOR EXAMPLE TRUMP KIND OF TALKED ABOUT HOW OPPOSED HE IS TO MAIL IN BALLOTS AND RON DESANTIS TOLD PEOPLE I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO MAIL IN THEIR BALLOTS.

VOTE FOR ME IN FLORIDA.

YOU SEE THIS CONTRAST.

I GUESS WHEN CONFRONTED A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE KIND OF AVOIDING TALKING ABOUT TRUMP.

THIS COMPARISON BETWEEN TRUMP AND RON DESANTIS, THEY ARE VERY RELUCTANT TO SAY I'M AGAINST TRUMP RUNNING DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE PARTY IS LOOKING FOR 2024 ALTERNATIVES AND THEY DO -- A LOT OF PEOPLE DO CONSIDER RON DESANTIS AS A BETTER CANDIDATE, A MORE VIABLE CANDIDATE.

>> THIS 16 SHOULD KNOW THAT IN THIS TOWN TELLING US WE CAN'T HAVE SOMETHING IS LIKE TINGLING RED MEAT IN FRONT OF A SHARK.

>> WE ARE GOING TO GET IT.

>> IT MAY MAY TAKE A WHILE.

>> DID -- IF RON DESANTIS RUNS FOR PRESIDENT AND SIX MONTHS HE COMES TO MICHIGAN -- >> THEY WILL BE THERE.

>> ESPECIALLY IF HE GETS MOMENTUM HE WILL OUT RAISE MONEY ON DONALD TRUMP.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL-ESTABLISHED HE CAN PROBABLY DO THAT AND THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT, THE DONOR CLASS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IS READY TO MOVE ON FROM TRUMP.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE UP.

BUNCH OF THEM ALREADY BEHIND RON DESANTIS AND HIS PACK.

SOME OF THE BIG NAMES IN MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN POLITICS.

WHEN THE LITTLE LEGISLATORS SEE THIS THEY ARE GOING TO WANT TO FOLLOW WHERE THE MONEY CLASS IS ESSENTIALLY GOING.

THAT THEY WILL COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE SHADOWS.

>> MATT HALL THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS LEADER AND SENATOR NESBITT, THE ISSUE TO THE DEMOCRATS.

LEAVE OUR AUTOMATIC INCOME TAX ROLLBACK ALONE OR ELSE.

HERE'S WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> THE STATE IS CURRENTLY SITTING ON A $9.2 BILLION SURPLUS IN UNDER A 2015 LAW ONE SET SURPLUS REACHES A CERTAIN POINT THE STATE INCOME TAX RATE IS AUTOMATICALLY, FROM 4.25 PERCENT TO 4.05 PERCENT.

REPUBLICAN SAY THE STATE IS THERE RIGHT NOW.

HOWEVER THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT COMMITTED TO THAT AUTOMATIC REDUCTION BUT IN A PRIMITIVE STRIKE THE NEW REPUBLICAN HOUSE LEADER IS WARNING THOSE DEMOCRATS TO LEAVE THIS AUTOMATIC CUT ALONE.

>> IF THE DEMOCRATS TRY TO COME IN HERE AND DO A BAIT AND SWITCH AND SAY WE ARE GIVING TARGETED RELIEF TO SOME PEOPLE IN A FEW YEARS SO WE ARE GOING TO GET RID OF THIS INCOME TAX LAW THAT CUTS THE INCOME TAX THAT'S WHY WE ARE CALLING ON THEM NOT TO TOUCH IT.

THEY SHOULDN'T TOUCH IT.

PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN ARE GOING TO GET AN AUTOMATIC INCOME TAX TECH.

>> WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE AUTOMATIC TAX CUT THE GOVERNOR WANTED US.

>> IT'S PREMATURE TO SAY THAT ACTUALLY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T CLOSE THE BOOKS FROM LAST YEAR.

I'M NOT GOING TO SPECULATE ON WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN YET.

>> THE STATE TREASURER TOLD LAWMAKERS LAST WEEK THE BOOKS WOULD NOT BE OFFICIALLY CLOSED UNTIL THE END OF MARCH.

LANSING DEMOCRATIC SENATOR SARAH ANTHONY WHO CHAIRS THE SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEE SAYS SHE HOPES THE STATE CAN DO THIS AUTOMATIC ROLLBACK BUT SHE HAS NOT COMMITTED TO IT EITHER.

REPUBLICAN LEADER ADVISES THE DEMOCRATS TO DO THIS NOW AND WORK ON OTHER TAX CUTS LATER ON.

>> WE CAN FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO BOTH AND THAT WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO FIND OUT WAYS WE CAN GIVE IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO SENIORS ON TOP OF THAT AND ALSO THESE WORKING FAMILIES.

>> HE WARNS OF THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT DO THE AUTOMATIC TAX CUT THAT AMOUNTS TO A TAX INCREASE.

>> THAT'S A BAD MORNING.

WHAT ARE THE REPUBLICANS UP TO HERE?

>> THEY ARE TRYING TO STAKE THEIR CLAIM.

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY WELL IF IT DOES HAPPEN THAT'S ON US AND IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN WE TRIED.

IT'S A TACTIC TO USE.

WE ARE TWO WEEKS INTO A DEMOCRAT LED LEGISLATURE SO THEY ARE TRYING TO STAKE THEIR CLAIM ON SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PUT THEIR NAME ON THE WINGS OF THE LEGISLATURE ANYMORE.

THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENING EVEN THOUGH DEMOCRATS KEEP SAYING WE'VE NEVER SAID THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO.

>> THIS IS PART OF THE REPUBLICAN STRATEGY AND REPUBLICANS LOOKING FOR THEIR VOICE.

EXACTLY WHAT ROLE DO THEY PLAY HAVING BEEN IN THE SEAT FOR SOMEBODY SO MANY YEARS.

THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES MINORITY MEAN.

IT'S PROBABLY MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN MR. NESBITT ON DOING THIS AND MUCH MORE VISIBLE.

WHAT WAS YOUR TAKE?

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

OBVIOUSLY WE SAW A LEADER HALL AND SENATOR NESBITT AND REPUBLICANS LAST SESSION IN THE MAJORITY TRY AND PUSH A REPEAL -- A ROLLBACK OF THE INCOME TAX RATE.

I AGREE.

I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO FIND THEIR WAY IN THE MINORITY.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A STATE LAW ALREADY IN PLACE BUT THIS IDEA THAT ANYBODY CAN MAKE A COMMITMENT TO ANYTHING BEFORE WE HEAR THE STATE OF THE STATE, BEFORE THE BUDGET YEAR IS CLOSED IS -- WE ARE NOT SEEING ANY LEGISLATIVE ACTION IN PART BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD THE STATE OF THE STATE AND HAVEN'T SEEN A BUDGET.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME WHEN PEOPLE SEE THAT $9.2 BILLION NUMBER TO OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS THE STATE GOING TO DO WITH THAT MONEY AND HOW IS IT GOING TO HELP ME.

>> THIS IS A COMBINATION OF A 20 YEAR BATTLE OVER ROLLING BACK THE INCOME TAX.

>> JENNIFER GRANHOLM.

>> BACK TO THE END OF JOHN ENGLER WHEN HE PUT IT IN PLACE, AND INCOME TAX WAS SUPPOSED TO ROLL BACK TO 3.9 PERCENT AND THEN IT DID AND THEN IT GOT RAISED WHEN TIMES GOT BAD UNDER GRANHOLM AND THAT THERE HAS BEEN A CONTINUOUS EFFORT EVER SENSE TO GET BACK TO 3.9 PERCENT BECAUSE SENATE REPUBLICANS THROUGH MULTIPLE MAJORITY LEADERS TRY THIS AND ARLEN MAY COME OFF IN 2015 LATE THIS LITTLE PROVISION INTO THIS BILL.

IF YOU WANT TO GAS TAX INCREASE, THEY RAISED IT 7 CENTS, PRODUCED $600 MILLION, I WANT A TAX CUT TRIGGERED IF THESE CONDITIONS EVER HAPPEN IN ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS FROM NOW.

SURE ENOUGH PANDEMIC COMES ALONG AND CREATES ALL THIS HUGE EXTRA REVENUE END OF THIS TRIGGER HAPPENS.

NO ONE EVER REALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN BASED ON THE SLOW GROWTH OF THE GENERAL FUND.

THE IRON OR HE HERE IS THEY ROLLBACK THE INCOME TAX FROM 4.2524.05 PERCENT, ABOUT $600 MILLION DENT IN THE REVENUE.

$600 MILLION IS WHAT WAS RAISED OUT OF THE GAS TAX AND $600 MILLION IS WHAT IS APPROPRIATED FROM THE GENERAL FUND TO ROADS.

WE ARE NOW GOING TO EVENTUALLY HAVE ANOTHER BUDGET CRISIS ON ROADS AS A RESULT OF THIS TAX POLICY, BUT HERE WE ARE.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE -- THE IRONY IS 12 YEARS AGO THE REPUBLICANS STOPPED AT THE THE TAX ROLLBACK.

ANOTHER ONE OF THESE ROLLBACKS WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AND THE BIG TAX CUT FOR BUSINESSES IN 2011.

THEY STOP A ROLLBACK EVENT AND NOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE FACING THE SAME DECISION.

>> THE OBJECTS HERE VERY IMPORTANT.

DO YOU WANT TO BE ON THE RECORD SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO GET AN INCOME TAX ROLLBACK AND WE DECIDED YOU WEREN'T?

>> YEAH I THINK IT DOES CREATE LIKE WHAT CHAD SAID A CONUNDRUM FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

RIGHT NOW IF IT GOES LIKE WHAT THE HOUSE FISCAL AGENCY SAID YOU ROLL I BACK AND IT CAUSES ABOUT $600 MILLION IN REDUCTION AND REVENUE AND THAT MEANS THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE A LOT LESS MONEY TO PLAY WITH.

EVEN THOUGH THAT WE DO HAVE SUCH A BIG SURPLUS.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT GOING TO COME OUT STRONG AND SAY HEY WE NEED A TAX INCREASE.

THAT'S VERY MUCH NOT GOING TO PLAY WELL AMONG THE VOTERS.

I THINK THE SITUATION KIND OF CREATES THIS FASCINATING CONUNDRUM.

WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO -- >> WHAT DID THEY DO?

I MEAN, I THINK WE SAW LAST SESSION THAT LAWMAKERS COULD HAVE HINTED AT BILLION OF DOLLARS IN COVID FUNDS UP AND THEY DIDN'T.

NOW I THINK IT'S EASIER FOR MICHIGANDERS TO POTENTIALLY NOT ACCEPTED THIS TAX ROLLBACK WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN.

THERE'S A LOT OF TIME.

IF WE ARE SEEING THE LEGISLATURE PASS OUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FUND PROJECTS AND INVESTMENTS IN LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

REPUBLICANS LAMBASTED THE GOVERNOR FOR HER AUTO REBATE LAST YEAR BUT, LIKE, VOTERS LIKED IT AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THERE WAS CONTENTION ABOUT WHO GOT THE CREDIT FOR IT AND WHO DIDN'T.

TALKING ABOUT ROLLING BACK GAS TAX BUT IT NEVER HAPPENS.

AGAIN $9.2 BILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY.

$600 MILLION IS ALSO A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT IF YOU HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY WITH IT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO FIND AND FIX THOSE BUDGET HOLES THAT A POSSIBLE ROLLBACK COULD CREATE.

>> ADDING TO THE CONVERSATION THE CITIZENS RESEARCH COUNCIL, I RESPECTED THINK TANK, BASICALLY SAID THIS COULD BE DONE.

WE COULD WORK IT OUT AND WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.

JUST A QUESTION OF WHO IS GOING TO GET CREDIT FOR IT AND THEY WILL TRY TO WAIT UNTIL EACH PARTY CAN DO THAT.

THE GOVERNOR IS ON AN INTERNATIONAL STAGE AND HER FRIEND IN VIRGINIA HANDS HER A FAT ONE.

>> INTERESTING STORY THIS WEEK.

OF GOVERNOR GOVERNOR YOUNG KING GOVERNOR YOUNG CAN IN VIRGINIA PUBLICLY REJECTED A FORT BATTERY PLANT THAT BECAUSE FORD WANTED TO PARTNER WITH A CHINESE COMPANY TO BUILD THIS PLANT IN A RURAL PART OF SOUTHERN VIRGINIA, VERY POOR AREA THAT WOULD HAVE SEEN A HUGE INFLUX OF JOBS, THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NATIONWIDE SWEEPSTAKES OF SORTS THAT THE AUTOMAKERS HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN STATE-BY-STATE OVERBUILDING NEW ELECTRIC VEHICLE PLANS AND BATTERY PLANTS.

FORWARD AT SORT OF FORWARDED SORT OF FAMOUSLY STIFFED US BIG TIME TWO YEARS AGO NOW WHEN THEY DECIDED TO BUILD A BIG PLANT IN TENNESSEE AND A BIG PLANT IN KENTUCKY.

THE GOVERNOR ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN CHASING FTS BATTERY LANSON GOT ONE FROM GM BUILT HERE IN LANSING AREA.

THEY'VE GOTTEN SOME OTHER PARTS PLANTS INCLUDING ONE WITH A CHINESE COMPANY THAT'S GOING TO COME BUILD ONE IN BIG RAPIDS.

BUT THE VIRGINIA GOVERNOR SAID I DON'T WANT TO DO ANY BUSINESS WITH THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY.

THEY'VE DRAWN THIS LINE OF THE SAND AND NOW GOVERNOR WHITMER IS TRYING TO BASICALLY SAY WE WILL ACCEPT YOUR INVESTMENT, CHINA.

>> WE LIKE THE IDEA OF UNILATERAL DISARMAMENT.

>> TRUE.

I CUFFED TO GOVERNOR RICK SNYDER WHO WENT ON A TRADE MISSION EVERY YEAR TO CHINA ABOUT THIS AND HE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND TALKED ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF THIS BEING ECONOMIC DIPLOMACY.

YOU CAN BUILD BATTERIES IN CHINA OR BUILD BATTERIES IN VIRGINIA OR MICHIGAN.

IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT GOVERNOR YOUNG CAN WAS DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO THIS COMPANY BUT THEY ARE A CHINESE COMPANIES IN VIRGINIA AND THAT THIS OF COURSE IS POLITICS.

WE'VE SEEN SIMILAR ACTIONS FROM GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS IN FLORIDA TALKING ABOUT INVESTIGATING CHINESE INFLUENT.

THAT SHINY -- THE TENNESSEE NO LONGER OFFERS INCENTIVES TO CHINESE.

ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WE SAW A RELEASE FROM FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP TALKING ABOUT HIS PLAN TO CUT BACK ON CHINESE INFLUENCE IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS CYCLICAL, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE SEEN POLITICIANS TALK ABOUT THE UNTOWARD INFLUENCE OF CHINA IN THE COUNTRY.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT JENNIFER GRANHOLM VERSUS THE DICK DEVOS CAMPAIGN?

WAS CHINA A CENTERPIECE?

>> WE SAW THAT WITH PETE HOEKSTRA AND SENATOR STEP AND NOW.

WE SEE THAT MANY MANY TIMES.

IT'S WORTH NOTING TOO THIS WASN'T FINALIZED IN VIRGINIA SO THERE'S A THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THE GOVERNOR REJECTED IT BEFORE HE COULD LOSE IT.

MICHIGAN IS IN THE RUNNING.

NOTHING IS SET IN STONE BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY IN THE RUNNING FOR THIS FACILITY.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE NOW IF THERE ARE THE STATES WHERE THERE HAS BEEN EXPANSION BEFORE THE ARK HE 90s PLANTS.

DOES MICHIGAN NEED TO GIVE $100 MILLION THAT IT GAVE TO FORWARD IN A DIFFERENT ECONOMIC PLAN TO GET THIS PLAN TO MOVE HERE.

IN THEORY IF IT'S NOT COMPETING WITH THAT SAY ANYMORE IT WOULDN'T HAVE THE NECESSARY HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF INCENTIVES.

>> WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF WITH SOMETHING CONNECTED WITH CHINA?

CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN THAT?

>> SURE.

>> THAT PREGNANT PAUSE SET IT ON.

>> IT'S THE SAME CONCEPT WE ARE SEEING IN THE LEGISLATOR THIS WEEK.

INTRODCING A BILL TO BAN TIKTOK ON STATE OWNED DEVICES.

THE CONCEPT THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY COLLECTING TOO MUCH DATA ON AMERICAN INDIVIDUALS AND GENERALLY HAVING TOO MUCH INFLUENCE AND I THINK THE WAY FOR SOME PEOPLE ARE PHRASING IT AS KEY INFRASTRUCTURE ASPECTS OF THE ECONOMY.

IT IS DEFINITELY A BOOGIE BOGEYMAN.

GOVERNOR SNYDER ESSENTIALLY REFERRED TO IT AS CHINA BASHING AND THERE'S OBVIOUS POLITICS INVOLVED HERE BUT WE'VE ALSO SEEN THAT THERE ARE DEMOCRATS DOING THIS TOO.

POLITICAL HAD REPORTED THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS EXPLORING A NATIONAL BAN ON TIKTOK AND GOVERNMENT DEVICES.

EXPLORED WAYS TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT HARDER, ESSENTIALLY MAKE IT HARDER FOR CHINESE TRADE ESSENTIALLY.

DOES NOT NECESSARILY JUST A REPUBLICAN THINK BUT IT IS CLEARLY TO SOME DEGREE A PLAY FOR REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN THE PRIMARY.

>> IT'S ALSO SEEN XENOPHOBIA.

THAT'S THE REALITY.

WE HAVE A CHOICE WITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

WE ARE GOING TO COME BUILD THEM HERE OR THEY ARE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO BRAZIL, GOING TO GO TO MEXICO.

THEY CAN STILL GO TO MEXICO.

THE CHALLENGE WITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES IS THESE BATTERY PACKS ARE VERY HEAVY AND NEAR WHERE THEY BUILD THE PLANT.

IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING TRUCK PLANT IN FLINT, AN EXISTING TRUCK PLANT IN FLINT FOR 100 YEARS YOU WANT TO BUILD A BATTERY PLANT IN FLINT IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE BUILDING TRUCKS IN FLINT.

THAT IS THE REALITY.

THE ONLY SO MANY SUPPLIERS OF LITHIUM AND THE CHINESE HAVE A MONOPOLY ON THAT RIGHT NOW.

ALL THESE BATTERY'S PARTNERS ARE EITHER CHINESE OR KOREAN -- SOUTH KOREAN.

THAT IS A KEY TO THESE INVESTMENTS.

>> I WILL SAY, I'M A CHINESE NATIVE MYSELF.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF FASCINATED ABOUT US SANCTIONS ON CHINA AND HOW WELL THEY ACTUALLY PLAY OUT.

I GUESS AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I MEAN, CHINA HAS -- CHINA IS KIND OF LIKE SELF SUSTAINABLE WITH ITS ECONOMY.

WE'VE GOT VERY CHEAP MANUFACTURING JOBS AND WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN THIS WORLD FACTORY WHERE WE EXPORT PRODUCTS AT A VERY LOW PRICE.

ECONOMICALLY IT DOES MAKE SENSE TO SAY IMPORT CHEAP PRODUCTS FROM CHINA ALL THE TIME.

WHEN FOR EXAMPLE, WHENEVER THERE ARE TALKS OF SANCTIONS YOU DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT FLINCH BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY'VE GOT THE LABOR FORCE OF THEIR TO SUSTAIN ITSELF, EVEN WITHOUT -- EVEN IF THAT MEANS TEMPORARILY THEY ARE NOT THE US IS A GREAT BUSINESS PARTNER.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT KIND OF INTERESTS ME.

>> CHINA IS THE 800-POUND GORILLA.

VIRGINIA, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY BALL, WE WILL FIND SOMEBODY ELSE AND SOMEBODY ELSE WILL SAY YES.

SPEAKING ABOUT BATTERIES, YOU NEED BATTERIES TO RUN TVS AND WE HAVE FOLKS IN TOWN THIS WEEK SAYING EV OWNERS COUGH UP A LITTLE CASH.

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING THING WE ARE STARTING TO.

THE STUDY WAS ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE NOT SEEN AS MUCH INCOME TO THE STATE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE EV OWNERS THAT ARE PAYING GAS TAXES.

WE ARE GETTING THAT MONEY FOR THE ROAD FRONTING, BRIDGE FUNDING WHICH IS AS WE KNOW IMPORTANT IN MICHIGAN.

IT'S AN INTERESTING THING THAT WE WILL SEE.

I WOULD EXPECT WE SEE MORE CONVERSATION ABOUT AS MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING EV AND OTHER STATES I KNOW ARE REALLY PUSHING FOR STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA.

WE DON'T NECESSARILY SEE TO THAT EXTENT HERE IN MICHIGAN YET BUT IF WE DO THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO HERE.

>> AT ABOUT 5 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION HAS EV'S RIGHT NOW IT'S ABOUT 10,000 PLUS VEHICLES IF EVERYONE SHOWS UP.

BUT THAT NUMBER IS EXPECTED TO GROW.

THE INITIAL LOSSES $50 BILLION AND WILL GROW FROM THERE.

SAVE A ROAD BUILDING LOBBY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST, THEY WANT TO BUILD MORE ROADS.

>> FOR SURE AND I MEAN ROADBUILDING HAS BEEN A PRIORITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE BUILDING FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

YEAH, THE INITIAL PRICE TAG LIKE YOU SAID, $50 MILLION OR LIKE LOSS IN REVENUE.

THAT'S OVER LIKE A TWO YEAR SPAN BETWEEN 2019 AND 2021.

JUST FOUR CONTACTS IN 2021 ALONG WE COLLECTED ABOUT $1.1 BILLION IN THAT REVENUE.

BUT EXPERTS ARE ESTIMATING IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS THAN BY 2030 WHICH IS NOT FAR DOWN THE ROAD WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO LOOK AT A $500 MILLION LOSS.

THAT WOULD BE SHIP IN THAT REVENUE -- I MEAN, THAT WOULD COME AT WE COMMITTEE GREAT COST TO THE STATE.

THERE ARE TALKS ABOUT CHANGING POLICIES TO MAYBE CHARGING TAXES NOT BASED ON GAS BUT RATHER MILES, THE VEHICLES THAT TRAVEL.

MAY BE DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY YOU USE.

THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN EXPLORE SPEAK OF WHAT YOU MAKE OF THIS?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA.

IT'S BASED ON FAIRNESS OF EQUITY.

IF EQUITY WERE THE DRIVING FACTOR OF COURSE WE COULD PRODUCE THE GAS TAX AMOUNT SO PEOPLE DRIVING ICE CARS WOULD PAY THE SAME AMOUNT AS DRIVING EE.

IS NOT THE DRIVING FACTOR.

THE IDEA THAT THE GAS TAX MECHANISM IN THIS UNIVERSE IS THE ONLY WAY TO FUND ROADBUILDING IN MICHIGAN.

BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY CONCEPT THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR SO LONG IN MICHIGAN WE MUST FIND A WAY TO TAX EV.

THE SAME TIME TO YOUR POINT WE ARE SEEING A MASSIVE PUSH MATCHES AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL TOWARDS EV.

WE HAVE SEEN PRESIDENT BY THE RAIN AND TRYING TO CHANGE THE ENTIRE FEDERAL FLEET TO EV.

DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING POLITICALLY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO MAKE IT HARDER AND MORE EXPENSIVE FOUR PEOPLE TO BUY EV WHEN THE ENTIRE ESPECIALLY DEMOCRATIC ETHOS IS SHIFTING TOWARDS WANTING TO INCENTIVIZE.

WE HEARD GOVERNOR WHITMER LAST YEAR PROPOSE A $7500 TAX REBATE FOR PEOPLE BUYING EV'S.

WHY WOULD YOU THEN SUPPORT INCREASING TAXES ON EV'S?

>> SHE HAS SAID I THINK WE NEED TO FIND A NEW REVENUE SOURCE AS THIS INDUSTRY CHANGES AND SHE REALLY HAS NO CHOICE HERE.

>> THERE'S TWO THINGS GOING ON WITH ROAD FUNDING.

YOU'VE GOT THE GOVERNOR INVOLVED IN YEAR TWO OF HER FOUR YEAR BOND THE PLAN, $3.5 BILLION I CALL IT GET OUT OF THE DAMN CREDIT CARD PLAN WHERE YOU ARE BORROWING MONEY AND FIXING HIGHWAYS AND HOPEFULLY 275 AND 96 WILL BE DONE SO MY DRIVING IS EASIER.

BUT THEN WE'VE GOT A BIG HUGE CRISIS PEERING WITH LOCAL ROADS.

THAT'S THE ROAD BUILDING LOBBY IS LOOKING AT IS THAT THE LOCAL ROADS ARE IN MUCH MORE WORSE SHAPE PARTICULARLY IN SUBURBAN DETROIT AND AROUND -- >> NOT STATE-FUNDED.

>> SOME OF THEM ARE BUT THEY DON'T GET BOND MONEY.

THEY DON'T GET TO USE THE STATE CREDIT CARD.

AS A RESULT THERE IS A CRISIS COMING ON THAT FRONT.

YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR WHO RAN ON A FIX THE DAMN ROAD PLAN IN 2018.

COULDN'T GET IT DONE FOR YEARS, COULDN'T GET AN ACTUAL LONG-TERM SOLUTION DONE WITH REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURES US OR NOT IT'S KIND OF IN A POSITION WHERE YOU DO SOMETHING.

YOU SEE THE GAS TAX IS GOING TO DIE.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT -- THE DATE HAS NOT BEEN SET YET BUT IT WILL DIE OFF OF HER OVER TIME AS VEHICLES BECOME -- INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES BECOME MORE EFFICIENT AND AS MORE AND MORE EV'S HIT THE ROAD.

THERE IS A PROBLEM GOING TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THAT.

THE VEHICLE MILES TAX IS GOING TO BE HUGELY CONTROVERSIAL BUT IT COULD BE -- SOME STATES ARE PILOTING THIS WITH JUST EV'S AND THAT COULD BE A WAY TO LOOK AT DOING THIS.

THERE IS ALSO TOLLING TOO AND THERE'S A STOLEN -- >> WE'VE TALKED -- >> IT IS DOABLE END OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS GOT MORE FLEXIBLE WITH IT BECAUSE THEY SEE THAT -- IF YOU ARE FEDERAL POLICY WAS TO GET RID OF PETROLEUM THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE FIND OTHER WAYS TO DEFUND ROADS.

THERE IS A FEDERAL GAS TAX AS WELL THAT WILL ALSO DIE OVER TIME AND THAT HIGHWAY TRANSPORTATION TRUST FUND IS NEARLY INSOLVENT.

>> THE STICKY WHICH IS HOW DO YOU RECORD HOW MANY MILES YOU DROVE AND MAKE SURE IT'S ACCURATE.

SOME STATES ARE LOOKING AT PUTTING A DEVICE IN YOUR CAR.

THIS PROPOSAL TOOK THE WEASEL WAY OUT.

BASICALLY WHEN YOU REGISTER YOUR CAR YOU TELL THE SECRETARY OF STATE HOW MANY MILES HE DROVE -- IN OTHER WORDS THE HONOR SYSTEM.

>> I TELL GOOGLE EVERY STEP I GO.

I TELL ALL STATES OR WHATEVER ONE OF THESE INSURERS THEY PUT A DEVICE IN YOUR CAR TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE BREAKING NOT TOO FAST.

THEN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR INSURANCE RATE DOWN.

WE PUT ALL KINDS OF DEVICES THAT TRACK OUR MOVEMENT IN OUR CAR AND WHETHER STATES ARE DOING IS HAVE ANY THIRD-PARTY VENDOR JUST LIKE THOSE 17 APPS ON YOUR PHONE THAT TRACK WHERE YOU ARE GOING AT ALL MOMENTS ARE DOING AND THIS CAN BE DONE.

IS JUST GOING TO REQUIRE SOME POLITICAL WILL.

>> YOU THINK?

>> TO ACTUALLY TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND MAY BE MOVE ON FROM GAS TAXES.

>> TO WORDS, BIG BROTHER.

>> I UNDERSTAND BUT IT CAN BE DONE IF PEOPLE WANT TO ACTUALLY FOCUS ON A LONG-TERM SOLUTION.

THIS COULD BE ACCOMPLISHED.

>> FOR SOMEBODY TO WANT TO PUT A DEVICE IN THE CAR THAT WOULD MAKE THEM PAY MORE MONEY.

THAT SOMETHING THAT TO YOUR POINT IF IT'S BASED ON AN HONOR SYSTEM OR THE GOVERNMENT HAVING MORE DATA ON THE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE THAT.

I AGREE THAT CAN BE DONE BUT THERE'S A LOT OF PUSHBACK.

>> AN INTERESTING LEGISLATIVE DECISION.

BE SURE YOU TUNE IT RIGHT ON THIS PUBLIC TV STATION FOR WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 O'CLOCK FOR THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE WITH ANALYSIS TO FOLLOW.

THINK YOU OFFER A GREAT PROGRAM AND EVERYBODY HAVE A NICE WEEKEND.

CATCH YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.