>> THANKS FOR JOINING US ON CHICAGO TONIGHT.

I'M PARISH SHOTS.

HERE'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

APPLICATIONS ARE OPEN FOR POSITIONS ON CHICAGO'S POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW.

IS THE CHALLENGE TRUMP'S CANDIDACY IN ILLINOIS?

WE SPEAK WITH ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS TRYING TO DISQUALIFY THE FORMER PRESIDENT FROM THE 2024 BALLOT.

TAKE A LOOK AT UNIVERSITY RESPONSE TO STUDENT EXPRESSION OF THE LAST WAR.

NOW TO SOME OF TODAY'S TOP STORIES, A CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER IS RECOVERING AFTER BEING SHOT IN THE LEG.

THIS AFTER RESPONDING TO AN ATTEMPTED ROBBERY.

>> EARLY THIS MORNING, POLICE SUPERINTENDENT LARRY SNELLING SAYS A GROUP OF PEOPLE ATTEMPTED TO SMASH AND GRAB BURGLARY AT A PRADA STORE IN THE GOLD COAST.

POLICE SAY THERE WAS AN EXCHANGE OF GUNFIRE BETWEEN 2 OFFICERS AND A SUSPECT.

THE SUSPECT WAS ALSO SHOT AND BROUGHT TO THE HOSPITAL AND UNDERWENT SURGERY.

NOW HE SAYS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS INVESTIGATING THE INCIDENT.

>> THERE SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN BURGLARY.

THERE WERE SEVERAL VEHICLES INVOLVED RIGHT NOW.

THE SCENE IS STILL BEING PROCESSED.

>> SO WE DON'T HAVE AN EXACT NUMBER AT THIS TIME.

SO AS THE INVESTIGATION CONTINUES, WE'LL GET MORE INFORMATION.

>> ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL KWAME RAOUL WAS ON-HAND FOR THE RIBBON CUTTING FOR NEW PLANNED PARENTHOOD IN THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THE STATE.

THE NEW PLANNED PARENTHOOD FACILITY IS OPENING IN DOWNSTATE CARBONDALE.

ATTORNEY GENERAL RAUL HIGHLIGHTED THE IMPORTANCE OF THE FACILITY AS ABORTION REMAINS LEGAL IN ILLINOIS, BUT ILLEGAL OR SEVERELY RESTRICTED IN SEVERAL SURROUNDING STATES.

>> PATIENTS FROM THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY JUST YESTERDAY.

I WAS AND WE THIS ARE MAKING THEIR WAY HERE BECAUSE WE ARE TRULY ALWAYS FORCE A UP TO HELP >> AND ALL IS CALM NOW, BUT YOU MIGHT WANT TO START MAKING CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR TOMORROW MORNING'S COMMUTE.

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IS WARNING CHICAGOANS TO BRACE FOR A MAJOR SNOWSTORM STARTING AROUND 8 THIS EVENING AND GOING TO NOON TOMORROW.

YOU'RE WATCHING OUR 10 O'CLOCK BROADCAST.

PERHAPS YOU'RE ALREADY SEEING THE SNOWFLAKES FALL OUT THERE.

NWS SAYS TO EXPECT AS MUCH AS A HALF A FOOT OF SNOW IN THE CITY WITH MORE POSSIBLE IN SOME NORTHERN SUBURBS.

HEY, IT'S ABOUT TIME.

UP NEXT, THE POLICE OVERSIGHT BOARD IS ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS.

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW RIGHT AFTER THIS.

>> CHICAGO TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE IN BY ALEXANDRA AND JOHN NICHOLS.

THE GYM AND K MAYBE FAMILY.

THE POPE BROTHERS FOUNDATION.

AND THE SUPPORT OF THESE DONORS.

>> A PUSH TO CREATE A PERMANENT BOARD OF RESIDENTS TO OVERSEE THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT IS BEGINNING IN EARNEST TODAY.

APPLICATIONS ARE NOW OPEN TO SERVE FOUR-YEAR TERMS ON THE COMMUNITY COMMISSION FOR PUBLIC SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

THE COMMISSION IS PART OF A NEW ERA OF OVERSIGHT AND IS DESIGNED TO GIVE CHICAGOANS REAL AUTHORITY OVER THE BELEAGUERED LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

THAT BTW NEWS REPORTER HEATHER SURE OWN JOINS US NOW WITH MORE ON THE LATEST ON THIS POLICE REFORM HEATHER, WE KNOW THE THE INTERIM COMMISSION HELPED GOING SELECT POLICE SUPERINTENDENT SUPERINTENDENT LARRY SNELLING.

NOW THE PERMANENT COMMISSION IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING TAKEN PLACE TO.

HOW WILL THESE COMMISSION MEMBERS BE SELECTED?

WILL YOU REMEMBER BACK IN FEBRUARY, CHICAGO VOTERS ELECTED NEARLY 5 DOZEN PEOPLE TO SERVE ON.

>> POLICE DISTRICT COUNCILS EACH OF CHICAGO'S 22 POLICE DISTRICTS.

ONE PERSON FROM EACH POLICE DISTRICT COUNCIL NOW SERVES ON A NOMINATING COMMITTEE AND THEIR JOB WILL BE TO SIFT THROUGH THE NOMINATIONS ARE THE APPLICATIONS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET AND PICK 14 PEOPLE TO CENTER MAYOR BRANDON JOHNSON, WHO WILL THEN PICK 7 MUST BEACONS CONFIRMED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.

WE ALL REMEMBER HOW THIS LEGISLATION WAS ENACTED.

IT'S THE ULTIMATE SORT OF SAUSAGE MAKING, AS ARE MANY COMPROMISES TO PLEASE ALL CONSTITUENCIES TO COME TO THIS MAKEUP OF THE POLICE COMMISSION.

SO REMIND US WHAT POWERS THIS COMMISSION HAS.

WELL, IT WILL HAVE CITYWIDE OVER ALL POLICE POLICIES.

SO LIKE VEHICLE PURSUIT POLICY.

>> AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THE FOOT PURSUIT POLICY.

IT WILL ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SORT OF URGE THE CITY COUNCIL TO TAKE ACTION ON ISSUES OF REFORM.

>> MUCH LIKE THE DEBATE THAT WE JUST SAW OVER WHETHER OFFICERS ACCUSED SERIOUS POLICE MISCONDUCT SHOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE POLICE BOARD FOR PUNISHMENT.

AND SINCE AUGUST OF 2022, AS WE MENTIONED, THE COMMUNITY COMMISSION HAS BEEN LED BY AN INTERIM BOARD.

REMIND US WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED, WHAT THEY WASTED NO TIME IN FLEXING THEIR AUTHORITY LED BY PRESIDENT ANTHONY DRIVER JUNIOR.

THEY BANNED POLICE GAME DATABASE AND THEY ALSO BANNED POLICE OFFICERS FROM ASSOCIATED WITH HATE GROUPS OR RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS.

GROUPS LIKE THE OATH KEEPERS AND THE PROUD BOYS.

I SPOKE WITH ANTHONY DRIVER BRIEFLY TODAY.

HE SAYS HE WILL APPLY TO SERVE AND THE PERMANENT COMMISSION.

SO PERHAPS THE PERMANENT COMMISSION WILL LOOK A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE INTERIM COMMISSION THROUGH ITS MOST PROMINENT MEMBER.

AND HAS BEEN VERY ACTIVE.

WE'VE HAD HIM ON THE SHOW MANY TIMES.

AND AS WE MENTIONED, HE WAS LET THAT PROCESS THAT CAME TO 3 FINALISTS THE MENTALLY ILL LARRY SNELLING AS A SUPERINTENDENT OR RIGHT.

>> AND THE TRUMP, THANKS VERY MUCH.

THANKS US.

AND GO READ OTHERS FULL STORY ON OUR WEBSITE.

IT'S ALL A WTW DOT COM SLASH NEWS.

ILLINOIS IS THE LATEST STATE TRYING TO REMOVE INDICTED FORMER PRESIDENT AND CURRENT REPUBLICAN FRONTRUNNER DONALD TRUMP FROM THE BALLOT.

THIS AS THE SUPREME COURT PREPARES TO RULE ON COLORADO'S BALLOT CHALLENGE IN EARLY FEBRUARY.

AND IN ANOTHER SURPRISE MOVE LAST THURSDAY WHEN TRUMP FILED HIS NOMINATING PETITIONS TO APPEAR ON ILLINOIS'S MARCH 19TH PRIMARY BALLOT, HE CHOSE NOT TO SIGN THE CUSTOMARY LOYALTY OATH PLEDGING NOT TO SUPPORT THE OVERTHROW GOVERNMENT.

AND JOINING US IS ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING THOSE FIGHTING VOTERS CHALLENGING TRUMP'S ELIGIBILITY TO APPEAR IN THE MARCH 19TH BALLOT.

JUSTIN TREZ NOWITZKI IS A PARTNER WITH THE FIRM HUGHES SO-CALL PIERS RESNICK AND M JUSTIN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH FIRST OF ALL, WHO ARE THE PLAINTIFFS TO BRING THIS CASE IN ILLINOIS?

THANKS, PARIS.

THE 5 PLAN OF SPRING IN THIS CASE ARE A DIVERSE GROUP OF VOTERS FROM ACROSS THE STATE.

>> AND WHILE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT POLITICAL VIEWPOINTS AND AFFILIATIONS, THEY SHARE A BELIEF THE IMPORTANCE OF UP UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION, INCLUDING SECTION 3 OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

AND YOUR FIRM IS REPRESENTING PRO BONO.

GIVE US THE MAIN LEGAL ARGUMENT WHY YOU BELIEVE TRUMP IS INELIGIBLE FOR THE ILLINOIS BALLOT WEEK LIKE SIMPLE.

LAST WEEK DONALD TRUMP FILED IS NOMINATING PAPERS, CERTIFIED THAT HE WAS QUALIFIED FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT.

NOW THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HAS A MANDATORY DUTY TO LOOK AND SEE WHETHER SOMEONE WHO SAYS THEY'RE QUALIFIED ACTUALLY IS QUALIFIED AND DONALD TRUMP IS BECAUSE HE ENGAGED INSURRECTION ON JANUARY 6, 2021, HE'S BEEN ELIGIBLE FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT AND OR SECOND THROUGH THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

AND SO HAS CERTIFICATION THAT HE WAS QUALIFIED AS FALSE AS NOMINATION PAPERS ARE INVALID.

AND THAT WAS THE ARGUMENT THAT THE COLORADO SUPREME COURT RULED ON.

SO LET'S READ PART OF SECTION THROUGH THE 14TH AMENDMENT SAYING, QUOTE, NO PERSON, SHELL HOLD ANY OFFICE, CIVIL OR MILITARY UNDER THE UNITED STATES WHO HAVING PREVIOUSLY TAKEN AN OATH TO SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION.

UNITED STATES SHOW OF ENGAGED IN INSURRECTION OR A BILLION AGAINST THE SAME OR GIVEN AID OR COMFORT COMFORT TO ENEMIES.

>> BUT IT DOES SAY HOLD OFFICE.

THERE DOESN'T SPEAK ABOUT RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

IS THAT IS THAT NUANCE IMPORTANT THAT ALL IN THIS ARGUMENT?

>> NOT NOT IN THIS ARGUMENT BECAUSE THE AGAIN THE ISSUE IS, IS HE QUALIFIED FOR THE OFFICE?

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHE SWORE HE WAS WHEN WHEN HE FOUND HIS NOT A PAPER YEARS, HE SAID I AM QUALIFIED FOR THE OFFICE OF A PRESIDENT UNDER SECTION THROUGH THE 14TH AMENDMENT.

HE'S NOT QUALIFIED.

HE'S DISQUALIFIED.

AND SO BY SAYING HE WAS QUALIFIED, HE MADE A FALSE STATEMENT IS NOT A FAVORITES ARE INVALID AND YOU CAN'T BE ON THE BALLOT.

>> HE'S GOING TO SAY HE DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN ANY KIND OF INSURRECTION.

AND AT THIS POINT HE'S NOT CONVICTED YET FOR HIS HE IS GOING TO STAND TRIAL FOR HIS ROLE IN JANUARY 6 AND EFFORTS TO OVERTHROW THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION.

DOES IT MATTER THAT THERE'S NO ACTUAL CONVICTION?

>> WELL, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER.

THERE WAS AN INSURRECTION.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE DISPUTES THAT THERE'S INSURRECTION ON JANUARY TRUMP'S OWN DEFENSE LAWYERS AND THE IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING ADMITTED THAT IT WAS AN INSURRECTION WHETHER TRUMP ENGAGED IN INSTRUCTION IS ALSO NOT A CLOSE QUESTION.

DONALD TRUMP WASN'T BYSTANDER ON JANUARY 6TH.

HE WAS ON WHO IS SPEARHEADING THE LIE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

IT WAS TRUMP WHO SUMMONED HIS SUPPORTERS TO THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6TH.

TRUMP WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD SUPPORTERS TO MARCH TO THE TO TO THE CAPITAL AND TELL THEM TO FIGHT.

AND WHILE THE CAPITAL IS BEING OVERTAKEN, HE SAT AND WATCHED IT HAPPEN.

HE DIDN'T PLAY THE NATIONAL GUARD.

DIDN'T ASK SUPPORTERS TO STOP.

DIDN'T ACT LIKE A PRESIDENT.

HE ENABLED THE INSURRECTION TO CONTINUE AND AT A MINIMUM HE ENGAGED IN IT.

>> AND WE ALSO KNOW THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT HE ENGAGED ALLEGEDLY IN A PLOT TO HAVE ALTERNATIVE ELECTORS, FAKE ELECTORS TRY ANYWAY TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF THOSE ELECTION.

SO YOU UNLIKE OTHER STATES, YOU'RE GOING TO THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS HERE.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO THE STATE COURT SYSTEM LIKE THEY DID IN COLORADO.

WHY GOING TO THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS?

WELL, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT'S THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS UNDER ILLINOIS LAW WHO DETERMINES WHETHER CANDIDATES WHO SAY THEY'RE QUALIFIED FOR OFFICE ACTUALLY ARE.

AND THE ONUS SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN CLEAR.

THAT IS THE BOARD'S DUTY TO EVALUATE WHETHER A CANDIDATE ACTUALLY IS QUALIFIED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BOARD HAS DONE THIS IN THE PAST TODAY.

LOOK AT WEATHER.

A CANDIDATE FOR IS 35 YEARS OLD OR WHETHER THEY NEED TO NATURAL BORN CITIZEN REQUIREMENT.

SECTION 3 OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT IS JUST ANOTHER TOUGH TO SHAKE OFF HAITIAN THAT THE BOARD TO SCREAM COURT HAS TOLD US IS REQUIRED TO CONSIDER WHEN ADDRESSING THIS OBJECTION.

DO YOU ANTICIPATE THE BOARD MIGHT PUNT THIS TO THE STATE COURT SYSTEM?

IT'S HARD TO ANTICIPATE WHAT THE WHAT THE BOARD WILL DO.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT DEALING ICE CREAM COURT HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ON THIS.

THEY SAID THEIR DUTY IS MANDATORY WE'VE RAISING OBJECTIONS SAYING TRUMP SAID HE WAS QUALIFIED.

HE'S NOT AND IT'S THE BOARD'S DUTY TO ASSESS WHETHER THAT'S TRUE OR NOT.

THIS IS A STATE SUPREME COURT SIMILAR TO THE COLORADO SUPREME COURT WHERE WHERE THE MAJORITY APPOINTEES WERE APPOINTED BY DEMOCRATS.

DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE A MORE FAVORABLE ROUTE?

>> GOING THAT DIRECTION.

YEAH.

WHAT IS REALLY HAVE ABOUT IS >> THE LAW THE LAW HERE IS CLEAR.

AS I SAID BEFORE, IT'S CLEAR THAT TRUMP ENGAGED IN INSURRECTION.

IT'S ALSO CLEAR UNDER THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT SOMEONE WHO SWEARS THEY UPHOLD AND PROTECT THE USS CONSTITUTION AND THEN THEY ENGAGED IN INSURRECTION AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

THEY FORFEITED THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE IN THE FUTURE.

THE LAW WAS CLEAR AND NO MATTER WHO THE COURT IS.

I THINK THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS ARE ARE STRONG IT A REALLY GOOD CHANCE OF PREVAILING THERE.

MANY THAT SAY THAT DOING THIS SETS A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT AND REGARDLESS OF TRUMP'S ROLE IN THE INSURRECTION THAT IT STILL SHOULD BE LEFT UP TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE WHAT HE WHAT HE SAY THAT.

WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY STILL BE VOTERS WHO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP.

THERE MAY HAVE BEEN VOTERS WHO WANTED TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA FOR A 3RD TERM.

BUT PART OF WHAT LIVING IN A DEMOCRACY MEANS IS THAT WE RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW AND INCLUDING THE FUNDAMENTAL LAW, WHICH IS OUR CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS DESIGNED TO MAINTAIN OUR FRAMEWORK, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT AND CONSTITUTION CLEAR FOR GOOD REASON.

WE AMEND THE CONSTITUTION AFTER THE CIVIL WAR TO SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO SOROS THE CONSTITUTION AND THEN ENGAGE INSURRECTION AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE IN THE FUTURE AND THAT'S THE LAW.

EVERYONE IS BOUND BY AND TRUMP IS A OFF OF THE BALLOT IN COLORADO PENDING AN APPEAL.

RIGHT NOW WE LEARNED THAT THE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO HEAR ARGUMENTS.

>> ON THAT CASE ONE MONTH FROM NOW, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO GO?

I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF PREDICTING THE COURT WILL RULE.

THE TRUTH IS THERE THERE'S A WIDE VARIETY OF RELIEF WE COULD SEE FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

>> ALL THE WAY FROM AFFIRMING THE COLORADO SUPPORTS RULING THAT TRUMP IS INELIGIBLE TO RULING SAYING SECTION 14 I SECOND TO THE 14TH AMENDMENT SOMEHOW DOESN'T APPLY.

THOSE A WIDE RANGE OF RELIEF IN THE MIDDLE THAT COULD SAY THAT SOMETHING ABOUT THE COLORADO PROCEEDING WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT WITH THE COLORADO PROCEEDING, IT HAS TO BE SENT BACK FURTHER PROCEEDINGS.

SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY AT THIS POINT.

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

YOU THINK BASED SUPREME COURT PRECEDENT AND BASED ON.

>> THE RULING IN COLORADO THAT THEY USE SOUND.

BASICALLY LEGAL ARGUMENT TO COME TO THEIR RULING THAT THE SUPREME COURT'S OWN PAST PRESIDENT WITH SUPPORT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE THE COLORADO SUPREME COURT'S DECISION AS THOROUGH WELL-REASONED WOULD WOULD HOPE THAT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT WOULD WOULD WOULD WOULD CONSIDER IT AND THEIR OWN RULING.

AND WE THINK THAT THE SITUATION HERE IN ILLINOIS IS ANALOGOUS AND THAT SIMILAR RESULTS OBTAINED HERE.

>> INTERESTINGLY, WE MENTIONED THAT THE TRUMP TURNED IN HIS NOMINATING PETITIONS.

CHOSE NOT TO SIGN A NORMAL LOYALTY OATH, SWEARING THAT HE WOULDN'T SUPPORT THE OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT OR HE CHOSE NOT TO SIGN THAT PART OF IT.

THAT PLEDGE IS NOT REQUIRED TO LONGSTANDING TRADITION.

ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, OUR FOCUS IS REALLY ON THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUALIFICATION THAT'S THAT'S THE THAT'S THE BINDING LAW HERE.

AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES TRUMP INELIGIBLE FOR OFFICE.

AND SO WE'VE WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON THAT AND WE THINK THAT'S ENOUGH TO MAKE DONALD TRUMP INELIGIBLE QUICKLY.

THAT BOARD LIKE HE'S GOING TO HEAR THIS PRETTY SOON.

CORRECT?

YES, JANUARY 17TH IS ALL THE HEARINGS ON OBJECTIONS WILL COME OUT 17.

SO WE WILL WAIT FOR THAT TO JUST INTEREST ASKING.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THANKS.

BEARS.

BACK WITH MORE CHICAGO TONIGHT RIGHT AFTER THIS.

>> COLLEGES >> AND UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN VOLATILE PLACES SINCE THE OCTOBER 7 TOMAS ATTACK IN ISRAEL.

THIS HAS LED TO CONCERNS OVER FREE SPEECH AND SAFETY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

LAST MONTH, THE PRESIDENT OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AND MIT TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF A HOUSE COMMITTEE ON COMBATING ANTI-SEMITISM ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES RECEIVING BACKLASH FOR THEIR COMMENTS.

HERE'S A LOOK AT ONE OF THOSE CONTROVERSIAL MOMENTS FROM THAT HEARING.

>> AND AT HARVARD CALLING FOR THE GENOCIDE OF JEWS VIOLATE HARVARD'S RULES, BULLYING AND HARASSMENT.

YES OR NO.

>> IT CAN BE DEPENDING ON THE CONTEXT.

WHAT'S THE CONTEXT?

>> TARGETED AS AN INDIVIDUAL TARGETED AS INDIVIDUAL.

IT'S TARGETED AT JEWISH STUDENTS, JEWISH INDIVIDUALS.

>> DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY IS DEHUMANIZING DO UNDERSTAND THAT DEHUMANIZATION IS PART OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> JOINING US TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE RESPONSE FROM UNIVERSITIES IS TOM GINSBERG OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL LAW POLITICAL SCIENCE, FACULTY, DIRECTOR OF THE FORUM FOR FREE INQUIRY AND EXPRESSION, PERFECT GUEST TO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

THAT'S ALL THE RAGE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES EVERYWHERE ELSE.

THAT'S BEEN VOLATILITY AT THE LOT OF PROTESTS OVER THE ISRAEL GAZA HOUSE.

THE UNIVERSITY HANDLED IT WELL, OF COURSE, I THINK LIKE EVERY OTHER UNIVERSITY WE'VE HAD OUR SHARE OPINIONS BEING VOICED ON BOTH SIDES.

WE'VE HAD SOME PROTESTS, BUT >> RELATIVE TO MANY OF THE OTHER UNIVERSITIES, IT'S BEEN FAIRLY QUIET IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAVEN'T HAD IT OPEN VIOLENCE ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A OUTSIDE DONORS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WITHDRAW LIKE MANY OF THESE IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS THAT WERE AT THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARING, FOR EXAMPLE, OF COURSE, WE HAVE A LONG TRADITION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH THERE.

SO I THINK THAT'S HELPED US A LITTLE BIT IN THIS PRESENT MOMENT.

FROM THE ADL THAT SOME OF THESE PROTESTS TURNED ANTI-SEMITIC WHERE THERE WAS ANTI-SEMITIC LANGUAGE.

HAVE EXPERIENCED YOU'VE SEEN YOU'VE SEEN THAT AND WHAT WOULD THE UNIVERSITY DO ABOUT THAT?

WELL, I'VE NOT SEEN YOU KNOW THE QUESTION, WHAT EXACTLY IS ANTI-SEMITISM?

WHAT THE LINE IS IS ITSELF CONTROVERSY SOMETHING THAT WE DO HAVE TO DISCUSS?

I DO THINK YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THOSE HEARINGS THE CALL FOR GENOCIDE, WE'RE NOT REALLY HEARING CALLS FOR GENOCIDE ON CAMPUS.

WE'RE HEARING CONTROVERSIAL LANGUAGE SUPPORTING PALESTINIAN RIGHTS AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD INTERPRET THAT AS BEING A CALL FOR GENOCIDE.

BUT THAT'S OPEN FOR DEBATE.

AND WE ARE, IN FACT, TRYING PROVIDE AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO TALK THAT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, IN A CIVIL WAY.

AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THIS IS SO POLARIZING, THEIR PALESTINIAN MUSLIM AMERICAN GROUPS BELIEVE THAT THE U.S. SUPPORT OF ISRAEL IS OFFENSIVE TO THEM OR NOT SUPPORTING THEM.

IS JEWISH GROUPS THAT FEEL LIKE JUST THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT CALLING OUT ANTI-SEMITIC RHETORIC TOO MUCH.

SO IT IS, AS YOU SAID, A POLARIZING SO I HAVEN'T BEEN ON A UNIVERSITY CAMPUS IN A WHILE.

WHAT WHAT IS THE ATMOSPHERE IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF SPEECH IS ALLOWED?

WHAT KIND OF SPEECH GETS CANCELED, THE WHAT KIND OF SPEAKERS GET CANCELED BECAUSE OF AN UPROAR?

YEAH.

SO IN GENERAL, I THINK THIS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT CONGRESSIONAL HEARING SO CONTROVERSIAL IS THAT THOSE SCHOOLS THAT PRESIDENTS WERE UP THERE TESTIFYING WHILE THEY WERE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, PRESERVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WE VALUE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THEY IN FACT DO HAVE RECORDS OF SUPPRESSING SPEECH AND IS INVITING SPEAKERS AND CANCELING EVENTS WHEN THEY THINK IT'S GOING TO BE TOO CONTROVERSIAL AND SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THE ISRAEL HAMAS WAR.

YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A POLARIZING ISSUE.

THERE'S NO WAY REGULATE THAT WITHOUT SATISFYING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

AND SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THEY GOT IN TROUBLE THEIR HYPOCRISY.

THE FACT THAT THEY HAD NOT BEEN CONSISTENT OVER MANY YEARS IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND SAYING AND TO THAT ANSWER THAT THEY GAVE HIM THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARING THAT CALLING FOR THE GENOCIDE OF I GUESS IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL SORT SITUATION.

BUT WITH THAT, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A?

YOU KNOW, HATE SPEECH THAT WOULD BE.

TAKEN ACTION ON.

BUT YOU MAKE OF ANSWER THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE CONTACT.

YEAH.

SO I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL, BACKGROUND POINTS THAT WERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IF YOU WANT TO SEE A CALL FOR THE GENOCIDE OF JEWS, JUST GOING TO TWITTER, THEY'RE THERE ALL THE TIME.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF VIOLENT SPEECH THAT WE ALLOW BECAUSE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

NOW, UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES LITTLE BIT SPECIAL BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE ENVIRONMENT FOR LEARNING.

AND AGAIN, I DON'T THINK WE'VE HEARD THAT CERTAINLY NOT ON OUR CAMPUS.

AND SO WE HAVEN'T HAD TO CONFRONT IT.

IF YOU HAD A TRUE CALL FOR GENOCIDE DIRECTED AT PEOPLE, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY VIOLATE POTENTIALLY HAVE POLICIES ON HARASSMENT AND BULLYING.

AND SO WE DO HAVE A FRAMEWORK FOR DEALING WITH THAT.

BUT I DO THINK WE'RE NOW IN A PHASE OF THIS CONTROVERSY AFTER THOSE HEARINGS BEFORE CONGRESS WHERE IN A WAY WHAT'S GOING ON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANTI-SEMITISM ANYMORE.

IT'S ABOUT CONGRESS REALLY TRYING TO REALLY ATTACK AND TRY TO GET 2 UNIVERSITY GOVERNANCE AND TRIED TO MAKE SOME POLITICAL POINTS OFF AND STARTED READING THIS YEAR IN THAT REGARD WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT MIGHT GO OR THEY MIGHT TRY AND DICTATE WHAT UNIVERSITIES CAN ALLOW IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY TEACH YOU, WHAT KIND OF SPEECH THEY'LL WRITE ULTIMATELY UNOS UNIVERSITIES LIKE OURS ARE DEPENDENT ON FEDERAL RESEARCH MONEY AND THEY CAN HOT.

THEY CAN ATTACH STRINGS TO THAT MONEY.

YOU CAN TEACH THIS.

YOU CAN'T TEACH GENERALLY SPEAKING THE PUBLIC DOESN'T LIKE THAT APPROACH.

THEY THINK UNIVERSITIES SHOULD BE FREE TO SELF-GOVERN.

WE DID A POLL AT THE UNIVERSITY CHICAGO BACK IN SEPTEMBER AND THERE WASN'T MUCH SUPPORT FOR STATE INVOLVEMENT, WE STILL MIGHT SEE IT.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY DO HAVE TO GET OUR OWN HOUSES IN ORDER IN ORDER TO REALLY PROVIDE AN ENVIRONMENT FOR FREE EXPRESSION FOR STUDENTS.

CAN UNIVERSITIES GET THEIR OWN HOUSES IN ORDER MORE AND NOT BE, AS YOU SAY, HYPOCRITES ON THIS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, I OFTEN GO BACK TO A STATEMENT.

ONE OF OUR PRESIDENTS MADE BACK IN 1935.

SAID A UNIVERSITY IS NOT A SOCIAL CLUB.

IT'S NOT A KINDERGARTEN.

IT'S NOT A POLITICAL PARTY.

IT'S A COMMUNITY OF SCHOLARS TRYING TO UNDERTAKE INQUIRY.

AND IF YOU START WITH THE INQUIRY RESEARCH ON THE TOUGH PROBLEMS THE WORLD FACES TODAY AS BEING OUR CORE MISSION.

WHY WE HAVE AN ARRANGEMENT WITH SOCIETY.

WHY HAVE NONPROFIT STATUS AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO.

AND OF COURSE, TO DO THAT KIND OF INQUIRY.

YOU DO NEED A BROAD COMMUNITY, A VERY DIVERSE COMMUNITY.

YOU NEED TO HAVE FREE EXPRESSION OF CHALLENGE EACH OTHER'S IDEAS, GETTING BACK TO THOSE KIND OF THINGS I THINK IS THE SOLUTION IS.

AND I'M NOT PRONOUNCING, FOR EXAMPLE, ON ALL THE ISSUES OF THE DAY AS UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS HAVE BECOME QUITE ACCUSTOMED TO.

HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO BE A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU HAVE STUDENTS IN SOME OF THEM MIGHT SAY THAT THIS CONTROVERSIAL PIECE OF LITERATURE FROM 1930'S OFFENSIVE TO ME AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT OR THIS LEARNING SUBJECT OF U.S. HISTORY.

WORLD HISTORY IS IS TRIGGERING TO ME AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR AND WHAT'S WHAT'S THE BALANCE HERE?

RIGHT?

SO I THINK IS UNIVERSES BECOME MORE EXPENSIVE.

WE START TO TREAT THE STUDENTS LIKE CUSTOMERS AND ONE BAD ASPECT OF THAT WOULD BEAT US SAY THAT THEY DON'T EVER HAVE TO ENCOUNTER AN IDEA THAT THEY DISAGREE WITH READING THAT THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH.

THAT'S NOT REALLY THE JOB OF UNIVERSITIES, BUT EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

SO I THINK IT'S NOT SO HARD TO BE UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS LONG.

YOU GO BACK TO THE IDEA THAT IT'S OUR ROLE TO CHALLENGE THE STUDENTS TO HAVE THEM READ THINGS THAT THEY DISAGREE WITH AND TO TEACH THEM TO LIVE IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY WHERE THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE ENCOUNTERING AND LIVING WITH PEOPLE THAT THEY DISAGREE.

THAT'S PART OF THE SKILL OF GOING TO UNIVERSITY BECOMING AN ADULT AND ADULT.

WHAT'S THAT?

WHAT'S A LINE DRAWN ON HAVING SPEAKERS COME IN AND SPEAK YOU KNOW, COME OUT AND SAY, I THINK THAT A HEARING POINTS OF VIEW SOMETIMES IS NECESSARY WITHIN REASON, OBVIOUSLY.

BUT SOMETIMES YES, THE CROSSES THE LINE.

SO WHERE WHERE THE UNIVERSITIES, WHERE SHOULD THEY WERE SURE THEY'D RATHER BECAUSE YOU KNOW SOMETHING TO CANCEL THE SPEAKERS BECAUSE THEY GET SO MUCH PRESSURE AND THEY JUST THEY BOW TO THE PRESSURE.

RIGHT?

AND OF COURSE, WE ALSO HAVE THE PHENOMENA NOW OF SPEAKERS TRY TO GET INVITED UNIVERSITIES JUST TO BE CANCELED.

THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY BAD FAITH ACTORS OUT WHO DO THAT JUST TO GET PUBLICITY AND JUST TO BE CANCELED AGAIN AND GET SOME PUBLIC.

DEFINITELY HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, RIGHT?

BUT THE RIGHT ANSWER CLEARLY IS THAT THE SOMEONE IS INVITED BY A STUDENT GROUP.

IT'S NOT UP TO THE UNIVERSITY TO DIS.

INVITE THEM.

IT'S ACTUALLY UP TO THE UNIVERSITY TO PROTECT THAT PERSON'S RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND NOT GIVEN TO PROTESTS.

ARE THE HECKLERS VETO AND THAT ALLOW THE PROTESTS TO GO ON OUTSIDE AND TOOK PROTEST.

YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, RIGHT?

BUT YOU CAN'T DISRUPT THE SPEECH AND THE REASON FOR THAT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY BECAUSE OF WITH ENDORSE THE SPEAKER.

IT'S BECAUSE WE PROTECT THE AUTONOMY OF THE LISTENER THAT WE RESPECT THAT THE PERSON HEARING ALLEGEDLY OFFENSIVE SPEECH IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THEIR OWN, THAT THIS IS A GOOD IDEA OR BAD IDEA.

WE DON'T PATRONIZE THEM BY SAYING THESE IDEAS ARE OFF THE TABLE AND THAT'S, OF COURSE, I YOU KNOW, A TRADITIONAL WAY OF APPROACHING IT.

UNFORTUNATELY, MANY SCHOOLS, INCLUDING SOME OF THOSE AT CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THAT IN RECENT YEARS PLAYED A MUCH MORE ACTIVE ROLE IN POLICING WHO CAN COME TO CAMP.

YOU THINK IN THE SHORT TIME WE HAVE LEFT CAN CAN THOSE SCHOOLS COME TO A BETTER PLACE, A MORE MIDDLE GROUND ON THAT?

WELL, I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THE YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S BECOME SUCH A PUBLIC ISSUE.

BUT I THINK ONE REACTION IT'S GOING TO BE IN SOME SENSE MOVING A LITTLE BIT MORE IN OUR DIRECTION FOR CHICAGO'S LONG HISTORY.

NOT SPEAKING OUT ON ISSUES OF THE DAY ON PROVIDING A A FREE SPEECH ENVIRONMENT WHEN THINGS WE HOPE TO DO IS TO BECOME A MODEL IN A WAY TO GENERATE IDEAS AND FORMATS THAT ALLOW STUDENTS TO SPEAK WITH EACH OTHER ACROSS DIFFERENCE TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER AND BE ABLE TO BECOME DEMOCRATIC CITIZENS IN THE MOST PRODUCTIVE WAY LEARN HOW TO DISAGREE, BUT THEN MAYBE GO OUT FOR A DRINK AT THE END OF THE DAY AND ENJOY EACH OTHER'S COMPANY RIGHT TIME.

GINSBURG, FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

YOU ALSO HAVE A BOOK AT THE CHICAGO CANNON FREE INQUIRY AND EXPRESSION.

A VERY INTERESTING READ.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THANKS SO MUCH.

PARIS.

AND THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR THIS MONDAY NIGHT.

DON'T FORGET TO STAY CONNECTED WITH US BY SIGNING UP FOR A DAILY BRIEFING AND YOU CAN GET YOU TONIGHT STREAMED ON FACEBOOK, YOUTUBE OUR WEBSITE WWW DOT COM.

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YOU CAN ALSO GET THE SHOW VIA PODCAST AND THE PBS VIDEO APP AND JOIN TOMORROW NIGHT AT 5, 30 10.

AND NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE IN CHICAGO TONIGHT, I'M PARIS SCHUTZ.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

KEEP THAT DEBATE GOING OUT THERE, STAY HEALTHY AND SAFE AND STAY WARM.

>> CLOSED CAPTIONING IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROBERT, A CLIFF AND CLIFFORD LAW OFFICES, CHICAGO, PERSONAL INJURY AND WRONGFUL DEATH THAT SUPPORTS