- This is a production of PBS Tampa, St.

Petersburg, Sarasota.

[music] - Coming up local reaction on the capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro by U.S.

special forces.

What happens next to Venezuelans here on immigration visas?

South Florida is home to the largest population of Venezuelans outside that country.

And is there a role for opposition leader Maria Corina Machado, who international observers say won the 2024 presidential election?

And we take a closer look at legal questions on the military action and pending federal trial against Maduro.

That's next on Florida This Week.

[music] Welcome back everybody.

I'm Lissette Campos.

The recent capture of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on federal drug trafficking charges in the U.S.

is shaking up decades of American policy in South America.

Here in Florida, many are wondering what comes next.

We've brought together subject experts on several layers of this developing story.

And we begin with reaction from within Tampa Bay's Hispanic community and beyond.

Dr.

Norma Camero Reno from Venezuela, is a local attorney specializing in international law and human rights, and a community activist.

Roberto Torres from Panama, is a local business leader and the well-known entrepreneur behind Blind Tiger Coffee Roasters.

Torres also lived through the U.S.

invasion of Panama in 1989 and the seizure of Noriega in 1990, and Joe Citro is a former chairman of the Tampa City Council.

Tampa is home to a significant population of Venezuelan residents.

South Florida is home to the largest Venezuelan community in the country as Washington realigns its relationship with Venezuela.

Immigration protections are rolled back and legal uncertainty is growing.

When U.S.

forces captured Nicolas Maduro.

Reaction among Venezuelans in Florida were immediate and deeply personal.

- Today, justice is being served.

Justice is being served for all Venezuelans who left our country to demonstrate who we are.

- While the international story evolves, so do concerns at home, mainly around immigration policy.

The federal government ended Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, for Venezuelans, months ago.

This removed a legal shield that temporarily allowed many to live and work in the US, many of whom might also face political persecution if deported.

The Trump administration argues that conditions in Venezuela have now changed, and that Venezuelans should pursue other paths to stay in the US, such as refugees or asylum claims, processes that are often lengthy and uncertain.

Florida leaders critical of the policy say it's more dangerous than ever for Venezuelans to return.

- But going back now for many of these families would be foolish, would be unsafe.

Political prisoners have still not been released.

If if TPS is restored tomorrow, we have tens of thousands of people breadwinners who could go back to work.

- In places like Doral in Miami-Dade County community leaders say the impact has been immediate for a region that is home to almost 40% of the US Venezuelan Population.

- There's so much meaning behind finally having a glimmer of hope and light, of having our country freed for so many years.

We have generations in Venezuela that don't know what liberty is.

- And, Norma, I'd like to to ask you, you are one of the most high profile Venezuelan Americans in the Tampa Bay region.

What was your reaction when you first heard the news of the extraction of Maduro?

- My first reaction was I was very happy at the beginning, but I was also very scared of what was going on because I was receiving calls from my people in Venezuela.

And the repression there was very bad, and I was really concerned about it.

But I knew deep in my heart that the beginning of the end was starting and my people were going to recover their freedom and democracy.

They are very soon.

- There are so many people who are talking about, you know, describing Maduro in different language, right?

Some are saying that he is the rightful, legitimate leader of a sovereign country.

Others say he is a drug trafficker, a dictator.

When you talk to folks about Maduro and what's happening there, how do you describe him?

- Maduro is the head of a criminal organization.

Uh, he's, uh, he's not the president elect.

He lost the election in 2024 by 70% of the vote, and he didn't relinquish the power.

He decided that he was going to stay.

And the people in Venezuela got very, very scared.

And and they decided not to do anything because they knew what was coming.

And we were waiting for all these conversations to happen.

And maybe, uh, a different, a different turn in Venezuela would come.

But he never he never he was never going to leave the country.

So for us, the Venezuela, the United States went there and instructed him for for us was a excellent news, really.

- Roberto, I'd like to ask you.

Venezuelans aren't the only ones with strong, passionate opinions about what's going on.

Um, as Norma just mentioned, the election in 2020 for the Carter Center.

Was there one of the only in country organization, international observer of the elections, and they did not certify the elections as Democratic.

Then Secretary of State Tony Blinken also said that there were irregularities and was not a democratic process.

Um, so so your opinion about, um, not your opinion so much as your reaction to what's happening and what you're hearing in the Hispanic community?

- Yeah, I think a lot of uncertainty and definitely a lot of fear because I have employees that are on temporary protection status.

And if that doesn't get resolved, then I'm not going to be able to legally hire them.

So so trying to understand what does that look like for a, for a huge population that lives in the state that that got here?

Because by extracting Maduro out of that country, we recognizing that it wasn't good.

So so how are we trying to send, you know, this community of people back to a situation that is not fair or that is uncertain.

- For so many of us as we look at the images of what's happening inside Venezuela now, they are just they are external images.

They're not something they're not lived experiences.

You have a very different perspective when you look at these images.

You were how old when the US went in and extracted Manuel Antonio Noriega from Panama.

And what was living there like in post extraction?

- Yeah, it was it was 11.

I was 11 years old, and I can tell you that when it happened, it didn't happen overnight.

It started December 19th, but he actually got started January 3rd.

So for like about two weeks, they were playing this cat and mouse game with 5000, 10,000 troops on one side, and the entire country was under a military lockdown from a foreign country.

So essentially the US took over Panama for like about two weeks.

But after his extraction, they had they had a duly elected government that they had already won the election on May 1999.

So like about six months before Noriega declared that those elections were null and void.

So so it was a different process and a different plan.

I think that that that the lack of follow through or the lack of foresight in this particular in, in incident of, of an extraction, there is not a follow through of what's going to happen next.

So, so a lot of people are feeling they can't go to the grocery store, they can't go out to work.

They don't know what's going to happen.

- Were you allowed?

Were you going to school?

Was your family going to work?

- School was effectively canceled for for the foreseeable future, and then we didn't know where we could get our next meal because all the all the, all the grocery stores were closed.

What I remember vividly was one of these Walter Cronkite type reporters that was in a shirt and tie that day.

He showed up in a t shirt on, on TV, telling everybody that trying to keep him abreast of what's happening.

We had an elected official that lived right next to us, and he had, because he was part of the opposition at the time.

He had 24 over seven security from the US.

So, so, so it was a very uncertain time.

- And when he you hear Roberto describe that, Norma, that's kind of sounds like what you're hearing from your folks, your contacts within Venezuela now.

- No, not really completely different people are people are very happy.

What what you should understand is 27 years of oppression, of hunger, of violation of human rights in Venezuela and the international organizations doing nothing about it.

And all of a sudden they see a light in this process that they are going to be free again.

Everybody is happy.

They don't care at this point if they have to wait, if they're going.

They're still going to be.

Problem is, they're still going to be hungry in the country.

They don't care about that.

All they care is that the process continues and we go to the transition and the president elect comes, or we get new elections in Venezuela.

That's, you know, that's that's all it matters.

- Be free.

Before we go to Joe.

I'd like to ask the two of you, the Hispanic leaders in the community, about the the observation that Maria Corina machado is someone who has been an inspiration to so many with her resistance to the regime of Maduro.

Um, are you all disappointed or what is your what is your view that she is not being included so far in the transition that the Trump administration has chosen to work directly with Maduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, who has now been sworn in.

I'd like to start with you, Roberto.

- I think the disappointment is a fair statement, because that's the person that, you know, all these people have known and recognized and and it's a name.

And she's also praised him for, for, for doing the extraction and everything else.

So, so I think the disappointment is the right word for that.

- What would you say, Norma?

- Well, at the beginning I was disappointed.

But then I started reading about it and listening to, you know, Marco Rubio and the politicians talking about it.

And then I, I knew that they couldn't bring her into the country at this moment.

She would be in danger, and the president-elect will be in danger if they bring them here.

I mean, this is a criminal organization.

They only extracted the head.

The rest of this criminal organization is still in power.

Now they cannot.

The United States cannot go there and bring the new leaders know they need to go through the transition and then decide when it will be safe for her to be there.

- Joe, as the chair in the Tampa City Council when you were there and you were also represented the districts at large.

So you had access and interactions with with voters and with residents across the Tampa municipality.

Some Hispanics, some not.

Um, what is your community telling you?

What has been the reaction and how has it has it changed in the days following January 3rd?

- That's a great question, Lissette.

First of all, thank you for allowing me to be on this show with these two people that I've known and respected for a long time.

As you know, my establishment, my business is in Tampa, and that's highly Hispanic.

The the Venezuelan people that I know have been talking for years.

We need to take back our country.

We need to take back our country.

And they are elated right now.

But now, the question that I'm hearing from Venezuelan people are how you've done this.

This administration, yes, has gotten rid of that cancer that we have within our country.

But what is next?

And I feel the transparency coming from Washington is just not there.

They haven't said how they're going to change the government, what they're going to do once they get down there.

This is a major decision in our hemisphere that needs to have the citizens of Venezuela make the decisions.

Sure, the United States can be there as an advisory, but I'm still waiting to hear after the honeymoon period is over with what the citizens of Venezuelans want.

So in my opinion, the Venezuelans are saying, look, this is great, but we need to have an open election as soon as we possibly can to decide who's going to rule our government.

But there are so many things that need to be done.

Separation of powers.

Judicial.

Military.

President.

- So the Tampa Bay region is also home to a very large Cuban population, that is, many of whom are asking is Cuba?

Next is Colombia next?

What are you hearing?

- I'm.

I'm hearing porfavor.

The Cubans are saying, please, please.

But we have to make sure that all these infrastructures in these countries, we can't just send Venezuelans back from the United States to go to a country that is lacking infrastructure.

So there's this administration is going to have to tell us how things are going to get done.

And so far, they haven't shown me that.

- So many layers unfolding.

I'd like to thank the three of you for coming in.

Again, our thanks to Joe Citro, Roberto Torres and Norma moreno for coming in.

Thank you again.

As Venezuela enters a new phase of turmoil, questions about leadership and legality are coming into sharp focus.

Opposition figure Maria Corina Machado, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who remains in hiding after the disputed 2024 presidential election, is a force of voice for democratic change.

However, she is being excluded from the current transition plan.

Here at home, many legal experts are critical of the US military action that led to Maduro's capture and his arraignment in Manhattan on drug trafficking and related charges.

The unprecedented case is a departure from traditional international law and executive authority.

We're also watching how these events intersect with questions about the legal status of Venezuelans living in the US, including visa policy, immigration status, and what federal court rulings might mean for families right here in South Florida.

From the legal status of Venezuelan immigrants here to the federal case unfolding with Maduro, we are joined by legal experts Tara Newsom, attorney and legal professor, and also immigration attorney Paul Palacios with Migrants Foundation, Inc.. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tara, I'd like to start with you.

As we speak, the US Senate has just voted on the War Powers Act resolution um, 52 to 47, with five Republicans breaking ranks and voting in favor of this.

Of course, it does have to go to to another vote in order for final passage.

Why is this relevant and how do you see this affecting the the questions about the legality of this extraction?

- I think this goes to the framework of how we should be viewing all of this, and that's through the lens of the United States Constitution.

And so the seven articles of the United States Constitution grant the powers.

Right.

The article one is to the legislative branch that has the power to declare war, engage in war.

They also have the power of the purse.

In the 1970s, they gave themselves the War Powers Act, which allows them to check the president's Article Two power to be Commander-in-Chief and the chief head of state and all of that.

So what we're seeing in real time is Congress actually responding to the president's, you know, mighty power of trying to have this inherent power that isn't actually constitutional law.

It's sort of an interpretation of it to utilize the executive power to go into a country.

And what looked like a real conflict between whether it's an extraction to bring back for indictment or is it a regime change.

And so we're seeing Congress really giving a report card to the sitting president.

Hey, we don't necessarily buy that.

This is just trying to take murderer out, bring them back to make sure that we can indict him and have federal law.

It really looks like they're listening to the rhetoric that he's posting and saying in real time that he wants a regime change, and that's the job of Congress to check the president.

But, you know, you've really got to look through this through the lens of both international law and domestic law from an international perspective.

This is only been precedented a few times, especially from the United States.

International law really dictates that a regime change cannot happen unless three things happen.

You can't interfere with a country's sovereignty unless, number one, the country invites you to.

Number two, it's self-defense.

Or number three, you have the United Nations Security Council give you permission.

None of that existed here.

- What about domestically?

- Domestically, the DEA, the FBI have all been empowered by Congress to go ahead and support arrest, arrest warrants and indictments and to use military support to do so.

But this is where the conflict really is at, and why it's so important that Congress is speaking right now.

And that's because you have our Secretary of State, Rubio, saying this is just an execution of a domestic law to extract and bring to justice here in the courts, just like we did with the Panama president, Manuel Noriega, in 1989.

And then you have the president and his other top advisors saying, no, this is a regime change.

We're going to control Venezuela.

And so the courts are really going to have to unwind.

What is the predominant purpose from this administration?

Is the predominant purpose to execute a lawful extradition or is it a regime change?

And I think Congress is the report card right now is saying they don't believe the president.

- Well, let's pivot to the federal drug trafficking case, right?

That Maduro is has already pleaded not guilty, as did his wife, Cilia Flores.

Um, legally speaking, is he going to be tried as an American?

How how does this work?

- Well, part of our domestic law is somewhat international.

He could.

And he is, um, offering that he is the head of state.

He is the lawful head of state of Venezuela.

And so that would offer him the head of state immunity.

Of course, that requires him to be have recognized from the United States as the head of state.

And in August of last year, the United States Secretary of State, did not recognize him, recognized his opposition, Edmundo Gonzalez.

And so that doesn't look like it's going to be very weighty.

But what he will now be is under the jurisdiction of the federal courts.

And what we saw is that he pled not guilty.

But when he did that, he also said, I am the head of Venezuela and I am the first lady, said his wife.

All the narrative of trying to execute that, that defense of being head of state.

- There are so many Venezuelans who live in the Tampa Bay area, who live in the state of Florida, who are concerned about their immigration status there.

There are visas.

There are paroles.

We've talked about the temporary protected status.

What happens to them?

- Well, so far none of that has changed.

Um, the parole for Venezuelans program, along with the Cubans, Nicaraguans and Haitians, um, that was eliminated by the Trump administration.

And that's not it's not affected by this process.

What would be affected, perhaps, is the asylum applicants.

Venezuelan asylum applicants in the US.

People are claiming, well, we took out Maduro.

Now you can go back to your country.

And that is just not the case because, as I said, we have left the same regime in power.

So people who have been persecuted by the Maduro regime will be persecuted by the Delcy Rodriguez regime, by the Diosdado Cabello regime and by the Vladimir Padrino regime even more, because now there has been a military action against Venezuela, and anybody that they deem a traitor to the country will be arrested, uh, perhaps persecuted and torture.

- So for the for the folks who are watching this and aren't really sure, um, not familiar with the temporary protected status that was eliminated by the Trump administration for Venezuelans.

Can you describe the impact of that change?

- Well, the temporary protected status was extended in the waning days of the Biden administration.

Under the Trump administration came in and vacated that extension.

Instead of following the statute as it should be, to wind down the temporary protected status, but because they would have had to wait it the 16 months or the 18 months that they would be in process so that litigation is still ongoing.

Um, the the order risks putting back the protected status for Venezuelans has been stayed, though.

So right now nobody has temporary protected status and it won't be approved for extension.

It is possible that the court may rule in favor of the Venezuelan, but by that time the temporary protected status would have expired anyway.

- As an immigration attorney, as a fellow Venezuelan.

What advice are you giving Venezuelans who are calling your office for information?

For legal advice?

- Well, for legal advice, um, if there are petitioning for asylum, if they have not petitioned for asylum and they are concerned, uh, and they can petition for asylum, they should do so.

Uh, and they should seek legal advice, because it is possible that the government, uh, in their asylum proceedings, might seek to dismiss their asylum proceedings, saying, well, uh, we took out Maduro.

So now you can go back to your country.

But we have to show them that, in effect, that has no effect in reality.

Uh, fear of future persecution is higher now than it was before.

Now that the American government has taken action against Venezuela and Maduro regime is still in power.

- Thank you so much for joining us for sharing your opinions and your expertise with us.

Again, our thanks to Tara Newsome and also Paul Palacios for coming in and joining us.

Another dimension of the US Venezuela story is energy.

Venezuela sits on some of the world's largest oil reserves, and US Gulf Coast refineries are uniquely positioned to handle heavy crude like Venezuela's.

While Florida is not a massive refining hub, its proximity to Gulf Coast refineries means it stands to benefit if more Venezuelan crude enters the US supply chain.

Challenges still exist since Venezuela's outdated oil infrastructure has been on a steady decline since the 1970s, when it was at its peak of production.

To break that down for us, we are joined via zoom by Doctor Edward Glaub, an energy policy expert at Florida International University, to talk about what this means for Florida's energy sector and beyond.

Thank you, Dr.

Glab, for joining us.

- My pleasure.

I'm happy to be here.

- I'd like to start by asking you, how is it that the energy policy of the United States in Latin America, Venezuela in particular, how has that impacted the local economy of South Florida, west central Florida.

And how could that be impacted?

Again, depending on developments in Venezuela after the action of January the 3rd?

- Well, that's a very good question because historically the oil business has been very, very good for South Florida.

Historically Venezuela.

Venezuela and Peru have been very important oil production centers and the home offices for both IPC, the International Petroleum Company, which was a subsidiary of Exxon's Canadian affiliate, uh Imperial Oil as well as Exxon's uh office, is in Coral Gables, produced thousands, literally thousands of jobs.

- Based on your experience, what would you say are the key factors, though?

Um, that would determine success or failure in redeveloping that oil industry in Venezuela.

- You have to get the private oil sector involved.

Nobody else has the money for this.

Uh, here's the way they do this analysis.

Political risk and hurdle rates was one of my specialties.

I did this all over the world.

I didn't do it just in Latin America or Venezuela.

If I'm sitting in the corporate headquarters of any of these big oil companies, I'm going to say to myself, what is the risk and what is the potential return?

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

- Realistically, um, how long from your expertise will it take Venezuelan oil production to increase in a way that's significant, that's meaningful.

- Decades.

Decades.

- Decades.

Thank you so much for joining us.

It's fascinating to get your take and also go Florida International University, my alma mater.

- All right.

I'm with you on that one.

- And that's all the time we have for this episode of Florida This Week.

Thanks so much for watching.

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