♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Attorney Janice Mathis, the general counsel of the National Council of Negro Women, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

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♪♪ ♪♪ >> We are honored to welcome back to "The Chavis Chronicles," the general counsel of the National Council of Negro Women, Janice Mathis.

Welcome.

>> Well, Dr. Chavis, it is indeed my pleasure to be here representing NCNW.

>> You know, the National Council of Negro Women is one of the oldest, largest, but I would say most impactful organizations of black women, not just in the United States, but in the world.

But what is your responsibility to be the general counsel of the National Council of Negro Women?

>> How do you say no to Mary McLeod Bethune and Dorothy Height?

>> Yes.

>> Two titan leaders in our community.

So, it's the history.

It's the tradition.

But it's also what we're trying to accomplish today.

Introduce new generations of leaders and women to activism and social justice.

And as far as general counsel, general counsel's job is to keep you out of trouble.

And so, as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, nonpartisan organization, we're careful to stay on the inside lines.

We can still do advocacy.

>> Sure.

>> We can do a little bit of lobbying, but it can't be a substantial part of our work.

So, we're making sure that we stay inside those bright lines because we're going to make some noise about policy.

So, we want to make sure that we don't give people a reason to come after us.

>> Well, GOTV, get out the vote, that's nonpartisan.

Just want to make sure people have civic participation.

>> That's exactly right.

And I'm stunned when I talk to young people and they say they've never had a civics course.

>> Hmm.

>> They don't have to.

When I was in school, in the eighth grade, you took civics.

It was just mandatory.

But the more you know about the system, the more effectively you can participate in it.

And it's complicated.

It's not a simple system.

We've got checks and balances and layers of government regulation that all impact our lives.

Sometimes I ask young folk, "What is it in your life that's not affected by government policy?

Give me one area, and I can probably tell you how it is connected."

>> Well, Janice, you know, we both kind of grew up in the movement.

>> Yeah, we did.

>> And fortunate, actually, because for us, we not only know about the right to vote but the price we had to pay to get the right to vote.

And I think one of the issues today is that people may take voting for granted, may take rights for granted.

As the general counsel of the National Council of Negro Women, how do you remind each generation of not only our rights but our responsibility around those rights?

>> You know, the system that we have is a remarkable system.

It is the envy of the "free world," so to speak.

But it does require some dedication and some information.

You have to study it.

You have to pay attention to what's going on inside the system.

But, you know, yes, our grandparents and great-grandparents -- my grandfather was a janitor; my grandmother was a washerwoman -- they paid the price.

But at this point in my life, I think more about the life I want my grandchildren to live.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> I think more about next generations and what kind of world are we leaving them?

What about the environment?

What about women's rights?

What about a right to an education?

Why should education be beyond the reach of most families financially?

I tend to think about the future, and I think that's what young people are thinking about, the future.

And so, when we appeal to them, we talk to them about the past, yeah, but also about what kind of future do they want to build for themselves and their families?

>> Well, you know, I personally want to congratulate you and the National Council of Negro Women.

Black women are making so much strides, coming in places where we've never been before.

How do you deal with this myth that black men are angry because of the success of black women?

>> I just don't buy it.

I was raised by a very caring father, a devoted grandfather.

There were uncles who were there, men.

I haven't seen -- I haven't met that guy yet who is resentful of black women.

Are they persecuted to some extent?

Do they get a raw deal?

Are they singled out for certain kinds of prejudice and poor treatment and police brutality that others are not?

Absolutely.

But that means we need to stick closer together and not let any force divide us, because divided we fail.

Together we win.

At this point, it's not wealth.

Black political power is not built on wealth.

It's not built on influence, necessarily, but it is built on that sense of identity and affinity with other marginalized groups to say we have something in common.

That's what the rainbow was all about... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...that together we can be better.

If you look at the agenda -- look at reproductive freedom.

Look at student-loan debt.

Look at the environment.

Look at gun reform.

Those are majority issues.

A majority of Americans agree about all of that.

So, why are we being led in a minority direction?

Why are we allowing politicians to sell us something that we don't really believe in?

You ask Americans, do they need reasonable gun control?

They'll tell you yes.

You ask them, do they think all children deserve a decent public education?

They'll tell you yes.

Should women have freedom of choice over their reproductive systems?

Yes!

That's a majority of Americans.

We're supposed to be a democracy.

It's supposed to matter that you're in the majority.

That's the point we have to make.

>> Well, you know, it's the narrative -- a lot of things that feed disinformation and misinformation.

>> Oh, my goodness.

>> I think about the state of Florida, you know, banning books, changing curriculums.

Wanting to make sure that what's taught doesn't make anybody uncomfortable, you know?

But to me, that not only injures black kids, but it injures white kids, or any kid should not be denied the truth.

I think everybody should have an opportunity to a good education, to a good civic education.

>> What's that line from the movie?

"You can't handle the truth"?

I disagree.

I believe Americans can handle the truth.

I believe American children can handle the truth.

I started reading about Reconstruction and slavery when I was in grade school, because that's what my father was reading.

And so, I had to read everything he read.

I think we shortchange children when we don't show them the facts within their ability to comprehend it.

And so, we have been on a tour reading, talking about banning books, not banning all of American history, integrating contributions of black folk into American history so that it's a whole history and not a fractured history.

>> Exactly.

>> In terms of the demographic changes, they've been coming a long time.

And they talked about 2040.

If you look at elementary schoolchildren, preschool children today, they are mostly black and brown.

And the sooner we reconcile ourselves to that and unify around some common principles -- what is democracy, anyway?

Right?

>> Let me ask you about the National Council of Negro Women.

What are your top priorities right now?

>> It's interesting you should say that, because we just had a Zoom call last night with about 900 people on a Zoom call.

>> On one Zoom call?

>> On one Zoom call talking about the National Council of Negro Women's legislative priorities.

The Affordable Care Act, protecting it and expanding it, is one.

Protecting people who were knocked off of Medicaid, what they call a Medicaid disenrollment, making sure they get re-enrolled if they're eligible... >> Particularly in some states.

>> ...particularly in those Southern, in the Confederacy, where they didn't want the Affordable Care Act to begin with, and they didn't want to expand Medicaid.

So, there's that.

And then there is the Affordable Connectivity Program, the ACP.

There are 23 million Americans who are getting help with their broadband Internet bills because of the ACP.

Unfortunately, the funding was cut off.

The program was ending.

But Yvette Clarke from New York, congresswoman, has introduced legislation that now has 226 cosponsors.

Well, you know, there are only 435 people in the House of Representatives.

So, that's more than half.

That's a majority who are not only in favor of this legislation that would reinstate the Affordable Connectivity, but a majority who would be in favor of it and cosponsoring it.

So, there's that.

There's an omnibus bill.

There's a tribute to Shirley Chisholm, a statue for Shirley Chisholm.

We're supporting that.

And, you know, a few other pieces of legislation we've got, and we're training our folk on what these bills mean, what are the appropriate ways to talk to your members of Congress.

And we're talking to everybody.

We're talking to Republicans, Democrats... >> Democrats, independents.

>> ...and everybody in between.

>> Right.

I want to go back to the connectivity issue... >> Yeah.

>> ...because in many of our communities, there's an absence of access to broadband.

And when you don't have access to broadband, it's kind of hard.

Like, in many school systems now, everything is electronic.

>> Right.

>> Some kids don't even have books.

>> They have tablets.

>> Tablets.

How does the National Council of Negro Women see... You mentioned the Affordable Connectivity Act.

And we've worked with the FCC to push that.

>> Sure.

>> We finally got, I think, a good round of FCC commissioners.

>> Right.

>> But going forward, you know, it's an old saying that you make progress, but you have to hold onto it because if you don't hold onto it, yesterday's progress will be tomorrow's setbacks.

>> And in today's economy, not having reliable, affordable access to the Internet is like not having electricity.

We think that the case can be made.

Half of the 23 million Americans who took advantage of the ACP are over age 50.

>> Really?

>> Half of them.

Five million of them are African-Americans.

This is something people use for healthcare, telemedicine.

>> Telemedicine.

>> I got a telemedicine physical coming up... >> Telepharmacy.

>> ...where I don't have to go anywhere.

We're going to talk on the phone or get on the tablet.

They use it for educational services, like children, but not just children.

You can do your post-secondary education in a junior college or a technical college or any college almost now.

Do part of it online.

You've got loneliness.

People who are isolated, seniors who don't have immediate family living with them -- they've outlived their relatives.

You can do caregiving online.

I don't know how to book an airplane ticket or a train ticket anymore without going online.

It has become so much a fabric of our lives that not to have it puts you at an economic and a social, educational, and a healthcare disadvantage.

>> Well, you know, the issues that you've raised are all on the ballot in 2024.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So, what can be done to ensure greater civic participation in this consequential election year?

>> You know, for a long time, the theory was, you know, you organize around the election.

You do get-out-the-vote drives.

You do rallies.

You send postcards.

You try to urge people to vote.

I think what we've got to think more about is more long term.

How do we get self-activated voters, voters who don't need to be encouraged, voters who understand what's at stake, and they take themselves to the polls?

I've done my share of door knocking and taking people to the polls and organizing drives and that sort.

And nothing wrong with that.

We're going to do some of that.

>> Right.

>> But what we're doing next week we call "purple rush" because the Congress is not in session.

So, we're going to go see them in their home districts, the senators and the members of Congress in some 30 states.

>> You know, today there are 60 members of the Congressional Black Caucus.

>> Yes.

>> And you and I can remember when it was less than ten.

>> Just a handful.

>> Right.

So, we've come a long way.

>> Yeah.

>> How does the National Council of Negro Women work with the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation?

>> Well, for one thing, right now we're promoting their internship program.

The program application period is open.

A lot of people don't realize that NCNW has a number, about 50, college-campus sections of NCNW, places as diverse as the University of Alabama and Howard University and everything in between.

So, we're doing that.

We work closely with Vanessa and her staff to make sure that we stay in touch with the members of Congress.

Have events at our headquarters at 633 Pennsylvania Avenue, where they come in.

And we had just this past week six members of the Congressional Black Caucus as speakers on one of our voter-education webinars.

So, there's a strong relationship there.

>> So, I want to go back to the fact that there's only one building on Pennsylvania Avenue that's owned by African-Americans.

I mean, I don't know how Dorothy Height pulled that off.

Tell us the importance of owning that building that's your national headquarters at 601 Pennsylvania Avenue.

>> First of all, it's an historic building.

It was built in the 1850s.

Abraham Lincoln was photographed there.

The image that you see on the penny was actually created on the third floor of that building.

So, there's that.

But then there was Dr.

Height, who felt that halfway between the Capitol and the White House, there ought to be a place where black women could express their patriotism and their public-policy goals and objectives.

Nobody was better at that than Dr. Bethune.

She wrote Truman a letter in 1948 as if she was a teacher talking to a schoolchild.

"I need you" -- >> So, she was lecturing the president of the United States.

>> She was lecturing the president of the United States.

She wanted civil-service jobs for my people.

She wanted the military integrated, and she wanted an anti-lynching bill.

That was her agenda.

She laid it out in about three pages as to why she needed those things.

She didn't get the anti-lynching bill, but she did get the military integrated in 1948.

And think about '48.

That was the same year that Strom Thurmond decided he would start the Dixiecrats and started to lead white Southerners out of the Democratic Party, because what?

Black soldiers were coming back from Europe, and they weren't trying to be second-class citizens anymore.

So, we talk about the '50s and the '60s as being the Civil Rights era, but I really believe it started in '48.

That's just my theory.

I'm sticking with it.

>> And I think what's so gratifying about what you do at the National Council of Negro Women, you have that historical legacy, but you're applying it in contemporary terms, where each generation -- you know, the struggle is intergenerational.

No one can just sit back and say, "Well, you know, I played my part.

I can just sit back and be an observer now."

I think engagement is required by all, no matter what your age.

>> Social change is a young person's game.

Jesus was 33.

Martin King was 39.

Gandhi was a young man.

It is about the future.

By the time you get to be my age and you got grandkids and you got mortgages and you got tuition to pay and you got all that kind of stuff, you're not going to be quite as apt to take the risk and take the responsibility of creating change.

We can advise.

We can counsel.

We can raise money.

There's a lot that we can do at this point.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But struggle has always -- how old was Stokely?

How old was John Lewis?

>> Young -- college students.

>> Young people.

>> Yes.

>> Young people.

And I think that's what we have to realize about it, that it takes all of us, that it takes every -- there's a role for everyone who's willing to play.

>> But Stokely, John Lewis, all of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, SNCC, had encouragers, had mentors.

>> That's right.

>> So, mentorship is very, very important.

You mentioned the interns that the National Council of Negro Women has in place.

How is the responsiveness?

Are young women stepping up to get these internships?

>> Now, last year we did a batch of scholarships funded by one of the tech companies.

I think there were about 20 of them, $15,000 or so apiece -- not for entering freshmen, but for young ladies who were near graduation but running out of money.

Financial aid tends to go like this.

You get most your freshman year, and then it tapers off in later years.

So, we wanted to provide resources to those who needed it most, near a degree but facing a shortfall.

So, there's that.

And now we're starting something called the Bethune/Height Leadership Program, again, with some supporters.

There's a major retail organization supporting it.

And that cohort of young women, I think there'll be 20 of them to start, will actually be placed in positions in corporate America so that they can see up close and personal what the work world looks like.

They will be assigned a mentor, and they'll have certain other benchmarks that they'll have to meet, and they'll earn some cash for their education as a part of it.

>> Well, we definitely need the National Council of Negro Women out in the community now because you'd be surprised.

>> We're out there.

>> Some people, as Malcolm X would say, they're going for the "okeydoke."

>> Really?

>> You know, they're just being misled, misinformed.

And when you're misled and misinformed, you make the wrong conclusions.

>> I know there's a lot of disinformation out there.

You know, misinformation is accidental.

Disinformation is intentional.

>> Intentional.

>> And on the Internet can be a fairly dangerous place to be if you don't have a con-- see, that's why you need education.

You need to read some great books so that what you see on the Internet, you're able to discern whether or not it's likely to be true.

>> Yes.

>> We had an exercise on one of the webinars last week where they showed three photographs, and the lady said, "Well, which one of these is fake?"

And we looked and looked and looked.

All of them were fake.

>> Well, I think the National Council of Negro Women has certainly exemplified what it means to be civically engaged.

As the general counsel of the National Council of Negro Women, what gives you your greatest hope?

>> What I see in the youth around me -- we've got a fairly young staff.

I've always been a sort of a, I don't want to say mentor -- that's too strong a word -- but interested in young people and willing to help them achieve whatever it is they're trying to do.

I guess because my folk was schoolteachers.

So, I come by that naturally, wanting to be that person they can talk to and relate to.

They are committed.

They believe in collaborating with each other.

They have strong opinions.

They are ambitious.

They don't mind working together.

It gives me hope that they will figure it out.

We just have to give them enough space and grace to come unto themselves, as we might say.

>> If people want to find out about what you're doing in the National Council of Negro Women, how can they reach you?

>> www.ncnw.org.

You can find us on the Web, Facebook, Twitter, what used to be -- well, I guess it used to be Twitter.

>> It's "X."

>> And TikTok, LinkedIn, almost any of the popular platforms.

You can find us there, as well as, like I said, our own website, www.ncnw.org.

Not to mention, most of the 300 sections of NCNW around the country have their own social media.

And so, if you put "NCNW" into Google, you're going to come up with quite a list of opportunities to interact.

And we encourage people to do that.

And you will get a wealth of information and opportunities to interact with others who are like-minded and be a mentor or find a mentor, if that's what you're looking for.

>> Quantitatively, what is the size of NCNW today?

>> If you count the 36 national affiliates that include all of the sororities, Jack and Jill, Women's Home and Overseas Mission of the AME Zion Church, the AME missionaries, the CME missionaries -- I'm gonna get in trouble naming names -- but if you count all that, you're talking about 2.5 million people.

>> 2.5 million.

That's a big organization.

>> Now, direct members who have just joined NCNW, up around 30,000, 40,000 members.

>> That's still very big.

>> It's enough to make a little bit of a splash.

And we're doing our best to try to do that.

>> Well, Janice Mathis, thank you for your leadership and thank you for your continuing contribution to make our nation and our world a better place.

>> Thank you for having us.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following... At Wells Fargo, we continue to look for ways to empower our customers.

We seek broad impact in our communities, and we're proud of the role we play for our customers and the US economy.

As a company, we are focused on supporting our customers and communities through housing access, small business growth, financial health, and other community needs.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives.

Wells Fargo, the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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