>>> I'M HARI SREENIVASAN IN NEW YORK.

THE FELONY CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP CAME TO AN END TODAY IN A MANHATTAN COURTROOM.

MR. TRUMP WAS SENTENCED TO AN UNCONDITIONAL DISCHARGE, MEANING NO JAIL TIME, NO FINE.

TRUMP WAS FOUND GUILTY LAST MAY OF 34 FELONY COUNTS RELATED TO HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS MADE TO ADULT FILM ACTRESS STORMY DANIELS BEFORE THE 2016 ELECTION.

TRUMP WILL BE THE FIRST CONVICTED FELON TO BECOME PRESIDENT WHEN HE IS INAUGURATED IN 10 DAYS TIME.

IN THE HANDING DOWN THE SENTENCE, JUDGE JUAN MERCHAN REITERATED THE PROTECTIONS GUARANTEED THE PRESIDENT ADDITIONAL TO THE OFFICE, NOT THE OCCUPANT, AND THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER CITIZEN UNDER THE LAW .

MR. TRUMP JOINED THE PROCEEDINGS REMOTELY FROM PALM BEACH, FLORIDA, AND TOOK TWO TRUTH SOCIAL AFTERWARDS, SAYING, "THIS CASE HAD NO CRIME, NO DAMAGES, NO PROOF, NO FACTS, NO LAW, ONLY A HIGHLY CONFLICTED JUDGE, A STAR WITNESS WHO WAS A DISBARRED, DISPLACED CEREAL PER TOUR, AND CRIMINAL ELECTION INTERFERENCE."

PROSECUTOR JOSHUA STEIN GLASS LASTED TRUMP, SAYING HE HAS, "CAUSED INJURY DAMAGE TO PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND HAS BEEN FAR FROM EXPRESSING ANY KIND OF REMORSE FOR HIS CRIMINAL CONDUCT."

TO BE PRESIDENTIAL PARDON AUTHORITY DOES NOT EXTEND TO THE STATE CHARGES.

BUT, TRUMP'S LEGAL TEAM DOES PLAN TO APPEAL THE VERDICT.

STAY WITH US, AMANPOUR & CO IS NEXT.

>>> WE HAVE SEEN THIS PLAYBOOK MANY TIMES, WHIPPING UP THE INTIMIDATION AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE.

>> STAY OUT OF OUR AFFAIRS, EUROPEAN LEADERS ARE BACK AT ELON MUSK'S TROLLING.

WE WILL DISCUSS WHAT HIS MEDDLING MEANS FOR DEMOCRACY.

THEN -- >>> DO YOU THINK I NEED TO SAY GOODBYE TO MY CLOSEST FRIENDS?

>> I THINK YOU SHOULD DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.

>> THE ROOM NEXT DOOR, FILMMAKER PEDRO ALMODOVAR TELLS ME ABOUT HIS LATEST WORK AND ITS FOCUS ON FRIENDSHIP AND DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT DEATH.

>>> PLUS, TECH BILLIONAIRES A FOR TRUMP 2.0?

WALTER ISAACSON SPEAKS TO ONE ABOUT THE BIG SILICON VALLEY SWITCH UP.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, AND CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

10 DAYS UNTIL DONALD TRUMP REENTERS THE WHITE HOUSE.

BY HIS SIDE WILL BE THE WORLD'S RICHEST MAN, ELON MUSK APPEARED FROM OVER HERE, ELON MUSK'S LATEST RELENTLESS POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IS RAISING EYEBROWS.

HERE IN THE UK, HE HAS STOKED THE FLAMES OF FOR RIGHT ANGER AND MISINFORMATION.

HE HAS APPARENTLY DEVELOPED A FIXATION WITH A BRITON AND A VENDETTA AGAINST THE CURRENT MINISTER.

IN A BARRAGE OF POSTS ON X, ELON MUSK SEEMS TO HAVE JUST BECOME AWARE OF A TWO EIGHT OLD HARROWING CHILD ABUSE SCANDAL IN WHICH THOUSANDS OF THE MOSTLY WHITE BRITISH GIRLS WERE EXPLOITED BY GROOMING GANGS OF LARGELY BRITISH PAKISTANI MEN.

POSTING A CALL ASKING IF THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND'S "TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE OVERTHROWN," ELON MUSK HAS CAUSED A POLITICAL FIRESTORM, WITH OPPOSITION TORY MEMBERS JUMPING ON HIS BANDWAGON CALL FOR ANOTHER NATURAL INQUIRY.

IT IS NOT ONLY THIS.

POLITICALLY, ELON MUSK HAS TURNED HIS FULL WEIGHT BEHIND ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS FAR RIGHT AGITATORS IN THE UK, TOMMY ROBINSON, WHO IS CURRENTLY SERVING A PRISON SENTENCE.

BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS, ELON MUSK SOUGHT TO INTERFERE IN GERMANY'S UPCOMING ELECTIONS, POSTING "THE ONLY THING THAT COULD SAVE THAT COUNTRY IS THE AFD," REFERRING TO GERMANY'S FAR RIGHT EXTREMIST, ANTI- IMMIGRATION PARTY.

SO, WHAT IS GOING ON?

AND, HOW LONG WILL PRESENT TOLERATE MUSK HOGGING ALL THE HEADLINES?

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS IS THE LONG TIME JOURNALIST KARA SWISHER AND SUNDER KATWALA, DIRECTOR OF BRITISH FUTURE, A THINK TANK FOCUSED ON INTEGRATION AND IMMIGRATION.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM.

SUNDER KATWALA, HERE IN THE UK AND WATCHING CLOSELY WHAT IS HAPPENING, HOW INFLUENTIAL IS ELON MUSK HERE, HOW MUCH TREPIDATION SHORT LABOR, THE GOVERNMENT, AND OTHERS BE FEELING ABOUT ELON MUSK'S INTERFERENCE?

>> THERE IS A BIG DILEMMA ABOUT HOW TO RESPOND TO HIM.

HE WON'T HAVE THE LEVEL OF INFLUENCE IN BRITISH SOCIETY HE CAN HAVE AN AMERICAN SOCIETY.

IF YOU ARE ON DONALD TRUMP'S SITE IN AMERICA, HALF OF AMERICA IS WITH YOU AND OF AMERICA DOESN'T LIKE YOU.

IT IS A MUCH SMALLER GROUP OVER HERE THAT FLEXED THE POLITICS OF DONALD TRUMP THAT IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT AS WELL BECAUSE HE IS SO CONNECTED TO THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT IS OPEN TO EVERY BUSINESS AS USUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH AN AMERICAN GOVERNMENT LED BY DONALD TRUMP.

ELON MUSK'S ABILITY TO DRIVE THE NEWS AGENDA HERE IS DIFFICULT.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HIM OFF IF HE IS CALLING ON THE KING TO DISSOLVE PARLIAMENT AND HOLD AN ELECTION, THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> IT CAN'T HAPPEN.

CONSTITUTIONALLY, IT CAN'T.

>> YOU CAN IGNORE THAT AND NOT FEED THE TROLL, EVEN IF HE IS A BILLIONAIRE.

ONCE YOU GET INTO THE GROOMING ISSUE AND TOMMY ROBINSON AT THE KIND OF THINGS THAT STUCK THE RIOTS IN BRITAIN, MISINFORMATION THEY TOOK THE VIEW OF THE PRIME MINISTER HAD TO RESPOND TO DEFEND HIS OWN RECORD AND GROOMING, TO DEFEND HIS MINISTERS IN TERMS OF WHAT THEIR ROLE HAD BEEN.

SO, THEY RELUCTANTLY HAD TO TO ENGAGE WITH ELON MUSK.

>> WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE APPROVAL OF ELON MUSK HERE?

>> IT IS ABOUT 16 TO 20%.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ON THE FENCE WHEN HE BOUGHT X.

40% OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW.

IT IS NOW TWO THIRDS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE ELON MUSK, 1/5 OF PEOPLE LIKE HIM.

THE MORE PEOPLE IN BRITAIN THAT HAVE HEARD OF ELON MUSK, THE MORE DISAPPROVE OF HIM.

YOU MIGHT THINK HE WAS IMPRESSIVE WITH HIS CARS AND ROCKETS BUT ELON MUSK THAT SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP IS NOT POPULAR IN BRITAIN.

HE HAS THE SAME KIND OF APPEAL THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS A GOT IN BRITAIN.

ONLY A SIXTH OF BRITAIN WANTED DONALD TRUMP TO BE PRESIDENT.

>> A LOT OF WHAT HE ISSUED ABOUT KEIR STARMER WAS BASICALLY LIES AND MISINFORMATION AND KEIR STARMER FELT HE HAD TO REACT.

WE'LL GET INTO THE SPECIFICS OF THE GROOMING SCANDAL, WHICH IS TWO DECADES OLD.

I WANT TO ASK KARA SWISHER, WHO HAS BEEN INTERVIEWING ELON MUSK, PROBABLY ONE OF THE FIRST TO DO SO MANY IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH HIM OVER SO MANY YEARS.

WHY DO YOU THINK HE HAS DEVELOPED THIS FIXATION, AND AS WE ALL KNOW, USING LIES AND MISINFORMATION IN THIS CASE?

>> DURING THE ELECTION, HE WAS SEEN TO HAVE CREATED MOST OF THE LIES ON X.

A LOT OF STUDIES WERE SHOWING WHAT ELON MUSK WAS EXCITING.

I THINK IT HAS WORKED IN THE UNITED STATES SO HE'S TAKING HIS ACT ON THE ROAD AND HE FEELS HE HAS A PARTICULAR FIXATION WITH PEDOPHILIA.

HE GOT INTO THAT LAWSUIT, HE CALLS PEOPLE THAT.

SO, HE FIXATES ON IT QUITE A BIT.

AND, HE FINDS IT EFFECTIVE TOOL WHEN HE IS ATTACKING PEOPLE.

WHAT HE DOES IS HE DOES IT IN MASS, HE DOES IT INFLUENCE OF IT.

I THINK THERE WERE DOZENS AND DOZENS OF POSTS IN ONE EVENING ABOUT THE TOPIC AND HE DOES IT LATE AT NIGHT AND YOU CAN READ INTO THAT ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT HE DOES IT IN A MANIC FRENZY.

AND, HE THINKS IT IS EFFECTIVE AND HE GETS VERY DRAMATIC.

IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR THIS PERSON, ALL WILL BREAK LOOSE, THE WORLD WILL BE OVER.

THIS IS HIS FINAL AND I THINK HE HAS BEEN EMBOLDENED BY THE SUCCESS IN THE UNITED STATES.

UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THIS STUFF SEEMS TO WORK OVERTIME AS PEOPLE START TO HEAR MISINFORMATION MIXED IN WITH THE FACT.

>> WHILE WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT, I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER YOU THINK SOME OF IT IS ALSO BUSINESS BASED BECAUSE CLEARLY THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT HAS GOT REGULATIONS AND EUROPE HAS REGULATIONS ABOUT CONTENT.

BRAZIL HAD REGULATIONS.

HE HAS BEEN IN A BIG FIGHT ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE NOW AND HE RESENTS KEIR STARMER FOR SOME OF THE REGULATIONS THAT THE VARIOUS PARTIES HAVE TRIED TO BRING IN.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS ALSO PART OF IT?

>> I THINK EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THAT.

EVERYTHING HE DOES ACROSS THE GLOBE IS ABOUT BUYING PUTTER, EVERYTHING ELSE HAS TO DO WITH HIS BUSINESSES.

YOU CAN ALWAYS TRACE IT BACK TO SOMETHING THAT WILL ADVANTAGE HIS BUSINESSES, ANY OF HIS BUSINESSES.

PROBABLY THE ONLY SAFETY ACT, NOR VERSION OF IT.

WE HAVE ONE IN THIS COUNTRY, IS PROBABLY ASK HIM.

I THINK TWITTER HAS SOME PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

COLLATION IS ANOTHER THING.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE, HE IS UNBOUND.

HE SEES HIMSELF, HE IS A BIG VIDEO GAME PLAYER.

HE SEES HIMSELF AS "READY PLAYER ONE" ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE AND HE WANTS A GLOBAL IMPACT.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE IS HE INVESTED $250 MILLION IN DONALD TRUMP.

I USE THE WORD INVESTED CORRECTLY.

AND, HIS WEALTH GROWS BY $200 BILLION AND IT WAS ALREADY AT $200 BILLION.

NOW HE HAS MORE MONEY THAN EVER TO DO IT.

HE SEES IT AS AN ACCEPTABLE RISK TO FLAME YOU, TO DO TOXIC NONSENSE, TO DO MISINFORMATION, TO PUT OUT THE STUFF THAT PEOPLE ARE ON EDGE ABOUT, EVERYONE IS ON EDGE ABOUT CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE, EVEN IF IT IS 20 YEARS OLD, AND HE TAKES A GRAIN OF THAT AND IT'S AT PEOPLE.

THAT IS HIS METHOD.

HE DID IT HEAR ABOUT IMMIGRATION, ABOUT TRANSGENDER PEOPLE, HE ATTACKS AND HE ATTACKS AND IT CAN WORK IN MANY INSTANCES.

>> AND FOR DONALD TRUMP AS WELL, WHO IS ONE OF HIS SLOGANS IS ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

HERE, SUNDER KATWALA, CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE GROOMING SCANDAL?

APPARENTLY AMERICANS HAVE A LOT OF DISINFORMATION ABOUT AND SO DOES ELON MUSK.

IT DID HAPPEN, IT IS A TWO DECADE OLD ISSUE, IT, I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN IT AND I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN KEIR STARMER'S ROLE, WHEN HE WAS HEAD OF THE CROWN PROSECUTION.

PROSECUTING THE PEDOPHILES AND THE GANGS.

AND, ACTUALLY, IN POCKETS, IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

WHAT IS THE ACTUAL EFFECT?

>> IT IS A HARROWING STORY.

SOCIETY WAS TO ACT ON THE PIECE OF CHILDREN.

IT HAPPENED TO LOTS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SETTINGS, IT HAPPENED IN CARE HOMES, IT HAPPENED IN STATE SCHOOLS AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS, IT HAPPENED IN CHURCHES AND THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY HAS JUST RESIGNED.

POLICE DEPARTMENT, SCHOOLS, THE COVERED THINGS UP.

IT HAPPENED IN MINORITY COMMUNITIES AND THE ONES, THEREFORE, A SORT OF POLITICAL, IS CONCERNED ABOUT SAYING MIGHT BE DIVISIVE TO LOOK INTO THIS.

THERE WAS ALSO A POLITICAL INCORRECTNESS, REALLY, THAT VULNERABLE WOMEN, YOUNG GIRLS WERE NOT BE ENTRUSTED BECAUSE THEY WERE FROM POOR BACKGROUNDS, THEY WERE NOT BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND THINGS ARE BEING SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET.

KEIR STARMER WAS THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS AND HE INHERITED THIS ISSUE AND HE GOT THE PROSECUTIONS GOING OF GANGS BECAUSE YOU HAD TO BELIEVE VICTIMS EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT PARTICULARLY CREDIBLE WITNESSES BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO YOUNG TO CONSENT.

HE GOT THE FIRST PROSECUTIONS.

WHEN THAT HAPPENED, THE THAMES NEWSPAPERS SPOTTED AID PATTERN AND WE GOT A NATIONAL ISSUE OUT OF IT AND GOT INQUIRIES.

10 YEARS AGO, THEY WERE WELL REPORTED ON ON CNN.

>> I'M GLAD YOU SAY THAT.

ONE OF ELON MUSK'S THINGS IS TO SAY THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, US AND OTHERS, NEVER DEALT WITH IT BUT WE DID.

I INTERVIEWED THE REPORTER OF THE TIMES WHEN HE BROKE THE STORY.

CAN YOU ADDRESS THE ISSUE, SUNDER KATWALA, OF THE MINORITY ASPECT OF THIS?

THIS WHOLE ANTI-IMMIGRATION FRENZY IS SUGGESTING THAT IT IS, BY AND LARGE, YOU KNOW, MUSLIM AGAINST CHRISTIAN WHITE, IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> THE DATA WAS A VERY POOR.

THERE WERE GROOMING GANGS FROM ALL GROUNDS AND THERE WERE A LARGE NUMBER OF BACKGROUNDS OF INITIATION AND BRITISH PACKAGING.

IF YOU ARE NOT PIECING IS SOMETHING THAT WELL, YOU MIGHT BE LOOKED AT CULTURE.

IF IS NOT INDIVIDUAL FUNDING, IT MUST BE A CULTURAL PRACTICE THAT MEANS THAT IS A LOADED WEAPON.

WE JUST SAW A CHILD IN FRANCE, THERE IS A CULTURE OF MISOGYNY IN FRANCE.

THERE IS A CULTURE OF MISOGYNY IN TRADITIONAL BRITISH ASIAN COMMUNITIES THAT HAS BEEN CHALLENGED BY WOMEN IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

>> YOU ARE OF SOUTH ASIAN HERITAGE.

YOUR PARENTS CAME FROM INDIA.

DOES THIS OFFEND YOU?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO DISCUSS IT.

MY FATHER IS FROM INDIA.

MY MOTHER IS FROM SOUTHERN IRELAND.

I WAS BROUGHT UP I WAS CATHOLIC.

WITH THE SCHEDULE IN THE IRISH CATHOLIC CHURCH, THERE WERE CULTURAL ISSUES ABOUT THE WAY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH RESPONDED.

WHEN THERE WERE SCANDALS IN ASIAN COMMUNITIES, THERE WERE CULTURAL ISSUES.

WE NEED TO LISTEN TO VICTIMS, WE NEED TO SUPPORT FEMINISTS, WOMEN, AND ASIAN COMMUNITIES THAT WANTED THIS DEALT WITH AND COUNCILS AND POLICE FORCES WERE TOO SLOW TO ACT.

KEIR STARMER HAD AN ASIAN PROSECUTOR WHO GOT THINGS TO HAPPEN.

IT IS AN ETHNIC STEREOTYPE IF YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT GOING TO POLICE IT TO NOT OFFEND THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS CHILD ABUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE ROOTED OUT EVERYWHERE.

ELON MUSK HAS GOT IT THE WRONG WAY AROUND, KEIR STARMER WAS THE CHANGE MAKER .

HE BROUGHT ABOUT CHANGES TO PROSECUTE IT BETTER.

THE WHOLE SYSTEM HAS GOT BETTER NOW.

WE STILL HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY VIGILANT ABOUT CHILD ABUSE IN OUR SOCIETY.

>> KARA SWISHER, WHEN ELON MUSK IS CONFRONTED WITH THE TRUTH RATHER THAN THE LIES AND MISINFORMATION HE IS A SPREADING, WHAT IS HIS REACTION, DOES HE APOLOGIZE AND CORRECT, OR NOT?

>> NO.

NEVER.

WHY SHOULD HE?

HE IS AS RICH AND AS CAN BE, HE CAN WITHSTAND ANY LAWSUIT, HE HAS WON LAWSUIT, WHEN HE ATTACKED THE DIVING LAWSUIT, WITH THE PERSON HE CALLED A PEDOPHILE, WHO WASN'T, OBVIOUSLY.

HE WON THAT CASE.

SO, HE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THE POSITIVE PART EXCUSE ME, OF ELON MUSK IS THAT HE IS A RISK TAKER, THE NEGATIVE PART IS THAT HE IS A RISK TAKER AND HAS UNLIMITED FUNDS.

HE DOESN'T CARE, HE MOVES ON TO THE NEXT SLUR.

WHEN PAUL PELOSI WAS ATTACKED IN THE UNITED STATES BY SOMEONE WHO HAD REAL PROBLEMS ELON MUSK PUT UP A TWEET THAT SAID IT WAS PART OF A LOVE TRIANGLE.

HE DIDN'T CARE.

HE LIKED IT, HE PUT UP A TWEETED THAT LINKED TO A STORY.

HE DIDN'T SAY IT HIMSELF BUT HE DID IT, HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME.

THEN IT WILL SAY CONCERNING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

HE JUST PUTS IT UP THERE AND HE DOESN'T EVER PAY THE PRICE.

HE'S VERY CLEVER ABOUT HOW HE DOES IT.

>> LET ME QUOTE TO YOU, KARA SWISHER, SOMETHING THAT WAS PUT OUT, SHE IS IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS, VERY PROMINENT IN THE ONLINE SAFETY AND THAT WHOLE MOVEMENT IN GETTING IT ALL PASSED PARLIAMENT, BARONESS KIDRON, THIS IS SOMETHING SHE SHARED RECENTLY, "ELON MUSK DEVELOPING A SUDDEN INTEREST IN CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS AND MARK ZUCKERBERG RUNNING BACK CONTENT MODERATION TO FOLLOW TWITTER INTO A VEHICLE FOR THE RIGHT, A PERFORMATIVE ACT OF BUSINESSES TO CURRY FAVOR WITH THE NEW U.S. ADMINISTRATION, MUCH LIKE THE THREAT TO BY AGREEMENT OR OCCUPY THE PANAMA CANAL.

THEY ARE DELIBERATELY PREPOSTEROUS, LOUD, DESIGNED TO UNSETTLE THE WORLD ORDER."

SO, HOW WORRIED SHOULD SMART PEOPLE BE?

HOW WORRIED SHOULD ANYBODY BE?

>> EVERYBODY SHOULD BE WORRIED.

THEY HAVE LIMITED FUNDS.

$400 BILLION, IS NO PERSON ON THIS PLANET HAS.

THERE IS A GOOD TRAIT TO BE HAD IF SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE $400 BILLION.

THEY HAVE BOUGHT ADJACENCY TO DONALD TRUMP, THE ORIGINAL COIN- OPERATED PRESIDENT.

THEY ARE IN POSITIONS OF POWER WITH UNLIMITED FUNDS, A PROCLIVITY FOR LITIGATION.

TWO QUIET PEOPLE.

AND THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TOPICS.

EVERYTHING OFTEN GOES TO SUMS OF BUSINESS THINGS THEY WANT IN SOME FASHION.

OR, THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY THE PRICE AND IN MEXICO EXCUSE, HE DOESN'T WANT TO POLICE HIS WEBSITE, IT COSTS MONEY.

HE'S SAVING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

HIS STOCK WILL GO UP.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT, I DON'T MEAN TO SAY SO MUCH THEY WANT MONEY, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE FACTORED AND THEY WANTED TO DO BUT THEY WANT.

I CALL THEM, AS YOU KNOW, ADULT TODDLERS.

THEY WANT TO DO, THEY ARE ADULT TODDLERS WITH A HUGE BANK ACCOUNT AND A GIANT CHIP ON THE FOLDERS, ESPECIALLY ELON MUSK, AND THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY WANT AND IT IS VERY FRIGHTENING, ACTUALLY, IN MANY WAYS.

>> IN THE UNITED STATES, TARA, THEY HAVE USED DONALD TRUMP AS A VEHICLE FOR THIS BUSINESS THING THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, SO, SUNDER KATWALA, IN EUROPE.

>> PARTNER.

YOU KNOW, IT IS A TRADE, IT IS A TRADE OF MONEY FOR INFLUENCE ATTENTION FOR INFLUENCE.

HE IS VERY LOUD ON X AND HE HAS MADE IT SO THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO LISTEN TO THEM ALSO.

HE HAS BEEN A BELATED THE ALGORITHM IN THAT WAY.

IT IS A REALLY DANGEROUS SITUATION THAT TRADE TO OF PEOPLE, THAT ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD OUT ON VLADIMIR PUTIN.

THAT IS WHO HAS CONTROL OVER THE INFORMATION SYSTEM.

>> THIS IS SO FUNDAMENTAL.

WHEN YOU JUST SET THE ALGORITHM, HE ACTUALLY WENT AND CHANGED THE ALGORITHM AFTER HE SAW PRESIDENT BIDEN GETTING MORE ATTENTION FOR A PARTICULAR TWEET THAN HE DID.

HE LEFT A GAME AND WENT AND CHANGED THE ALGORITHM TO HAVE IT REFLECT ON HIM, ELON MUSK AND TALKING ABOUT, TO MAKE HIS TWEETS MORE POPULAR.

HERE IN EUROPE -- >> HE WANTS TO DO MORE.

CAN I ADD ONE MORE THING?

TIKTOK IS ABOUT, THE TIKTOK CASE IS GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT, IT IS THERE THIS WEEK.

WHAT IF, WHAT IF HE ALLOWED ELON MUSK TO BUY TIKTOK?

THINK ABOUT THAT.

WHAT IF HE GOT THE INSIDE TRACK TO BUY TIKTOK IN THIS FIGHT THAT IS GOING ON ABOUT WHO OWNS TIKTOK?

THINK ABOUT THAT.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT.

>> AND THINKING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.

I WANT TO BRING IT BACK TO YOU, SUNDER KATWALA.

ALL OF THAT, IT IS HAVING A POLITICAL EFFECT, POTENTIALLY.

WHAT HE SAID, FOR INSTANCE, ABOUT TOMMY ROBINSON, THE FAR RIGHT GUY HE IS BACKING AGAINST NIGEL FARAGE, WHO IS MR.

RIGHT WING AND BREXIT AND WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE AFD, THE FAR RIGHT EXTREMIST HEIRS OF A VERY UGLY TRADITION IN GERMANY.

HE SAID "THEY COULD SAVE GERMANY."

WHERE IS THAT DELETE POLITICALLY OVERSEAS?

>> I THINK IS GOING TO STRUGGLE TO HAVE THE IMPACT IN EUROPE, IN BRITAIN AND GERMANY, THAT HE'S GOTTEN AMERICA BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT BRITAIN AND GERMANY.

WHEN HE SAYS TO GERMANS I DON'T KNOW WHY THE AFD IS EXTREME, THEY LOOK LIKE OBAMA DEMOCRATS TO BE, THE GERMANS KNOW WHO THE AFD ARE.

IT IS ELON MUSK THAT IS BEING ISOLATED.

HE HAS MADE A MISTAKE IN DITCHING NIGEL FARAGE FOR TOMMY ROBINSON.

NIGEL FARAGE IS A POLARIZING POPULAR AND UNPOPULAR POLITICIAN THAT QUARTER OF PEOPLE MIGHT VOTE FOR HIM THAT THEY COULD SAY ELON MUSK'S MILLIONS MIGHT MAKE NIGEL FARAGE PAIN MINISTER AND HE HAS ALWAYS STAYED AWAY FROM TOMMY ROBINSON BECAUSE NIGEL FARAGE THINKS WHEN YOU ARE WITH TOMMY ROBINSON, HIS TRADITION IS EXTREMISM, RACISM, FOOTBALL HOOLIGAN, 5% LIKE THAT.

MUSK HAS TAKEN HIMSELF OUTSIDE OF MAINSTREAM POLITICS BY ATTACKING NIGEL FARAGE FOR NOT BACKING ROBINSON.

IT SHOWS THIS ATTEMPT TO BE THE CITIZEN KANE OF THE WORLD ISN'T GOING TO WORK IF YOU ARE NOT CREDIBLE IN THE COUNTRIES YOU ARE TRYING TO INFLUENCE.

WE COULD TREAT HIM LIKE A PANTOMIME BOND VILLAIN EXCEPT IT WILL STOKE UP VIOLENCE AT THE EXTREME END AS OF THE SORT WE SAW IN BRITAIN.

IT IS NOT THAT HE IS GOING TO CHANGE ALL GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE CAN MAKE SOCIETY DANGEROUS.

>> VERY FINALLY, KARA SWISHER, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK TRUMP IS GOING TO PUT UP WITH THAT?

>> THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION.

I JUST INTERVIEWED MAGGIE HABERMAN, SHE THOUGHT TRUMP IS ALREADY IRRITATED AND TRUMP IS A ONE RING CIRCUS.

IF ELON MUSK OVERSTEPS HIMSELF, THE PROBLEM IS HE'S VERY WEALTHY AND VERY USEFUL TO BE A CUDGEL, FINANCIALLY AND FROM AN INFORMATION POINT OF REVIEW TO DO THAT.

HE'S A VERY USEFUL CHARACTER.

BY THE WAY, IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE HE'S FIGHTING THE STEVE BENEN, THE LAST PERSON WHO WAS SHOVED OUT FOR TAKING TOO MUCH ATTENTION, ELON MUSK AND STEVE BENEN ARE FIGHTING.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A REALLY INTERESTING SITUATION.

IN THE END, THE GUY WITH THE MOST MONEY HAS AN ENORMOUS AND THE LOUDEST THING.

I WOULD SAY I THINK IT COULD POSSIBLY WORK THERE.

THIS THING IS LIKE THE DRIP, DRIP, DRIP OF A FLOOD THAT SUDDENLY BECOMES REALLY PROBLEMATIC.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT.

THEY DON'T LIKE HIM NOW BUT IT GROWS.

IT IS LIKE MOLD AND ED KRAUSE AND IT IS VERY DELETERIOUS TO YOUR SOCIETY, EVEN IF, RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT.

>> IT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION AND WE CAN'T JUST DISMISS IT.

KARA SWISHER, SUNDER KATWALA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND EXPLAINING THE INS AND OUTS.

>>> ANOTHER ISSUE HEAVILY DEBATED IN EUROPE, THE USA, AND BRITAIN IS ASSISTED DYING.

LATE LAST YEAR, PARLIAMENT VOTED HERE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL TO LEGALIZE IT IN ENGLAND AND WALES.

IT WILL FACE FURTHER DEBATE, SCRUTINY," BEFORE IT BECOMES LAW AND ASSISTED DYING IS THE CENTRAL THEME IN A NEW FILM CALLED "THE ROOM NEXT DOOR" .

THE LATEST AND FIRST IN ENGLISH FROM THE CELEBRATED OSCAR- WINNING SPANISH DIRECTOR PEDRO ALMODSVAR.

HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.

>> THE SNOW WAS FALLING, FALLING FAINTLY THROUGH THE UNIVERSE AND FAINTLY FALLING ON ALL THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.

>> TWO GREAT ACTRESSES STARRING.

PEDRO ALMODSVAR JOINED ME FROM MADRID TO DISCUSS THE LATEST WORK AND THE INCREDIBLE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL WAVES HE HAS BEEN WRITING AND PERHAPS EVEN GUIDING SINCE HE STARTED IN FILM FIVE DECADES AGO.

PEDRO ALMODSVAR, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU ARE SUCH A LEGEND IN THIS INDUSTRY AND IN THE CULTURAL WORLD.

YOU ARE A TWO TIME OSCAR WINNER AND YOU CAME ONTO THE FILM SCENE RIGHT AFTER THE FALL OF THE FRANCO DICTATORSHIP.

AND, YOU GREW UP IN SPAIN DURING THAT DICTATORSHIP.

WHEN I SPOKE TO ANTONIO BANDERAS ABOUT THE FILM "PAIN AND GLORY," THAT HE DID WITH YOU, THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD ME ABOUT YOUR ROLE IN SPANISH HISTORY AND NOT JUST FILM HISTORY.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> PEDRO ALMODSVAR STARTED WORKING AND DOING MOVIES ONLY FIVE YEARS AFTER GENERAL FRANCO DIED IN SPAIN AND THE COUNTRY WAS VERY CONSERVATIVE AT THE TIME, VERY MONOLITHIC AND SO FIGURES LIKE PEDRO ALMODSVAR AT THE TIME WERE NEEDED, THEY WERE NEEDED TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF PEOPLE IN MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS, MORALITY OF THE COUNTRY, SEXUALITY, A NUMBER OF THINGS.

PEDRO ALMODSVAR HAS BEEN, IN A WAY , THE PEAK OF THE PYRAMID OF PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY COLLABORATED TO DO SO, YOU KNOW, TO DO A BETTER SPAIN.

>> THAT IS A GREAT TRIBUTE AND I WONDER IF YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THAT BUT THAT YOUR SONS AND YOUR CHOICE AND YOUR STORYTELLING WAS NOT JUST A GREAT MOVIEMAKING BUT IT REALLY SPAIN FORWARD INTO A MORE DEMOCRATIC AND TOLERANT REALITY.

>> I THINK ANTONIO IS VERY GENEROUS WITH ME.

I MEAN SPAIN CHANGED AT THAT MOMENT.

SO, I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE WORKING WITH THIS KIND OF FREEDOM AND DOING THINGS COMPLETELY NEW THAT WE COULDN'T DO BEFORE.

BECAUSE WE WERE UNDER A DICTATORSHIP.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT I AM THE LEADER OF THIS CHANGE.

IT WAS THE WHOLE COUNTRY CHANGING.

AND, OF COURSE, I MEAN THE SPANISH SOCIETY WAS CONSERVATIVE.

PART OF IT WAS CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE THEY BECAME, I MEAN, THEY CAME FROM THE DICTATORSHIP AND THEY WERE SILENCED.

THE OTHER PART OF SPAIN THAT WAS AT THIS MOMENT WAS WAITING FOR THE CHANGE.

I WAS IN TUNE WITH THIS NEW MENTALITY, WITH THIS NEW CULTURE.

I FEEL LIKE I DON'T WANT TO BE TOO ARROGANT IN SAYING I WAS THE LEADER OF THAT.

I'VE BEEN VERY VISIBLE.

MY MOVIES WERE PRESENT, REPRESENTATIVES TO CHANGE THAT WE EXCREMENT IT WAS AT THE MOMENT.

>> YOUR LATEST FILM, WHICH WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT, IS CALLED "THE ROOM NEXT DOOR".

IT IS QUITE AN AMAZING FILM.

YOU HAVE TWO MASSIVE ACTRESSES, JULIANNE MOORE AND TILDA SWINTON.

IT IS ABOUT DEATH.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THE SUBJECT OF DEATH?

>> WELL, EVERYTHING STARTED WHEN I READ THE BOOK CALLED "WHAT ARE YOU GOING THROUGH," AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BOOK, THEN I FOUND A CHAPTER WHEN THERE IS A CHARACTER, THE CHARACTER OF TILDA SWINTON, MARTHA, THAT IS VERY SICK.

AND, JULIANNE MOORE CHARACTER, INGRID GOES TO VISIT HER AT THE HOSPITAL.

THAT PART REALLY MOVED ME AND THEN I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD REASON TO START ANALYZING THE SITUATION.

BASICALLY, I SELECTED THE ADAPTATION OF THIS NOVEL AND WHEN MARTHA HAS A MEETING WITH HER FRIEND AND ALSO THAT SHE DECIDED JUST TO MAKE EUTHANASIA AND SHE APPEALED TO IT AND ASKED HER TO BE LIVING WITH HER IN THE ROOM NEXT DOOR.

>> IT IS VERY PROFOUND.

YOU MAKE MARTHA, THE TILDA SWINTON CHARACTER, WHO IS DYING AND WANTS TO ESSENTIALLY HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF ENDING HER LIFE ON HER OWN TERMS YOU MAKE HER A WAR CORRESPONDENT.

AND, WE HAVE ONE CLIP THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN FROM THE PRODUCTION WHICH GOES TO THE HEART OF HER CHARACTER'S TROUBLED RELATIONSHIP WITH HER OWN DAUGHTER.

I'M GOING TO PLAY THAT CLIP.

>> THERE ARE VERY FEW WOMEN WERE CORRESPONDENCE.

WAR IS A MEN'S THING.

YOU HAVE TO BECOME ONE OF THE GUYS.

IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM FOR ME.

I'VE ALWAYS LOOKED LIKE A MAN.

ACTUALLY, I THINK WHAT MICHELLE REALLY MISSED WAS HAVING A MATERNAL FIGURE IN HER LIFE.

AND, IN THIS, I MUST ADMIT, SHE WAS RIGHT.

>> DON'T BE SO HARD ON YOURSELF.

>> WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE TILDA SWINTON CHARACTER THAT MOVED YOU, THE MARTHA CHARACTER AND WHY MAKE HER A WAR CORRESPONDENT?

>> I READ MANY BOOKS ABOUT WAR REPORTERS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WAS SUCH AN OBVIOUS TIME THAT MEN AND WOMEN, ALL OF THEM TOGETHER, THEY NEEDED TO, I MEAN IF YOU, IF I CAN SAY THEY DRINK A LOT AND MAKE LOVE A LOT.

THAT IS WHY SHE SAID THAT.

I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

BECOMES LIKE A CELEBRATION OF LIFE BECAUSE YOU ARE ALIVE.

IT IS A DEMONSTRATION THAT YOU ARE ALIVE.

TILDA SWINTON HAS THIS KIND OF UNIQUE PERSONALITY OF BEING SOMEONE VERY BRAVE, VERY ACTUALLY ARE.

ALSO, THAT SOMETIMES MARTHA JOKES ABOUT HER CONDITION.

I MEAN, THIS IS ONE CHARACTER THAT I COULD DO IN SPANISH BUT TILDA SWINTON WAS PERFECT FOR THAT.

SHE IS PHYSICALLY VERY PECULIAR.

ALSO, SHE HAS THIS SENSE OF HUMOR.

AND, IT AT LEAST GIVES ME THE IMPRESSION OF BEING SOMEONE VERY BRAVE, VERY COURAGEOUS.

>> THE FILM IS LITTERED WITH REFERENCES TO DEATH, NOT JUST MARTHA'S CONDITION AND WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO, EUTHANASIA, BUT YOU HAVE JAMES JOYCE REFERRED TO, HIS SHORT STORY "THE DEAD," JOHN HOUSTON'S FINAL MOVIE, "THE DEAD," MARTHA GELLHORN IS MENTIONED.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU ARE FEELING ABOUT DEATH AND MORTALITY.

>> I FEEL LIKE A KID, LIKE A CHILD.

I CANNOT ACCEPT IT.

AND I'M ALSO, I CANNOT UNDERSTAND IT.

I AM NOT A BELIEVER.

SPAIN IS A NONCONVENTIONAL COUNTRY.

BUT, THE MAJORITY ARE CATHOLIC.

BUT, I AM NOT.

I NEVER BELIEVED IN GOD.

SO, I FEEL REALLY, I DON'T HAVE ANY SUPPORT OF ANY RELIGION OR ANY CREDO.

THEY ARE WONDERFUL FOR THAT MOMENT.

I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE IS THAT REALLY HELPS YOU, BASICALLY AT THE LAST MOMENT.

I DON'T HAVE THAT.

I AM AN ATHEIST.

SO, AT THIS MOMENT, THIS IS STILL A PROBLEM FOR ME.

IT IS TRUE THAT WITH THIS MOVIE, I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE INGRID CHARACTER.

AND, ALSO, I WAS CLOSER TO ACCEPTING DEATH AND TO UNDERSTANDING DEATH.

BUT, AFTER MAKING THE MOVIE, YOU KNOW I AM, AMONG FRIENDS OF MINE, THERE WAS A BIG LOSS AND I REALIZED I FEEL THE SAME IN FRONT OF MORTALITY.

I FEEL THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT AND I THINK THAT IT IS LIKE A CONTRADICTION FOR SOMETHING THAT IS ALIVE TO DIE.

>> YOU MENTIONED YOUR FRIEND.

WE KNOW BECAUSE IT WAS REPORTED AND WE GIVE YOU OUR SYMPATHIES.

MARRISA PAREDES, WHO DIED SUDDENLY IN DECEMBER.

I GUESS YOU MUST BE PROCESSING HER DEATH AND THE LOSS OF HIS FRIEND AND PERSON YOU WORKED WITH SO MUCH.

YOU HAVE HER, PENELOPE CRUZ, A GROUP OF WOMEN I DON'T KNOW, THE CHICAS ALMODOVAR, WHO ARE IDENTIFIED WITH YOUR WORK AND ARE LOYAL TO YOU AND YOUR VISION.

IT'S REALLY AN INCREDIBLE GROUPING.

HOW DOES THAT FIGURE IN YOUR LIFE?

>> I THINK I WAS VERY LUCKY BECAUSE ALL OF THEM, THEY ARE VERY GOOD ACTRESSES.

I WAS LUCKY TO WORK WITH THE BEST SPANISH ACTRESSES.

THERE ARE MORE THAT I DIDN'T WORK WITH ANNA LIBBY, MARISA PAREDES , ELENA ANAYA, MANY ACTRESSES, I WAS VERY LUCKY.

WE LEAVE OUR WORK LIKE, LIKE IN THE THEATER, I MEAN, YOU HAVE A COMPANY OF THEATER, A STABLE COMPANY.

WE FEEL LIKE BEING PART OF ONE STABLE COMPANY TO MAKE MOVIES.

WE HAVE STILL BEEN FRIENDS AND THERE IS ALWAYS A CHARACTER THAT THEY CAN DO IT, ABSOLUTELY, I ASK THEM.

AND THE LAST, THE EXAMPLE IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND, THE LOSS OF MARISA.

SECONDLY SHE DIED LIKE THAT, FROM ONE DAY TO ANOTHER DAY.

WELL, YES.

I AM WORKING ON THAT BECAUSE THAT FEELING, THAT FEELING MAKES ME FEEL WEAK.

THIS IS A SENSATION THAT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE BECAUSE I WANT TO, I MEAN, TO KEEP ON WORKING AND WITHOUT ANY FEAR.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING BECAUSE I THINK IT IS RELATED.

THIS FILM AND WHAT YOU HAVE JUST GONE THROUGH OBVIOUSLY ARE VERY DEEP, VERY TRAGIC, DEALS WITH DEATH.

MANY OF YOUR OTHER FILMS HAVE DEALT WITH A LOT OF VERY, VERY DIFFICULT PARTS OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

YET, WE ALWAYS ALWAYS, ALWAYS SEE YOU IN PLACE AND IN COLOR.

YOU ARE WEARING AN INCREDIBLE SWEATER RIGHT NOW.

YOUR BACKGROUND IS A BRIGHT PINK.

TILDA SWINTON WAS DRESSED IN BRIGHT COLORS.

TELL ME ABOUT COLOR.

IT IS UNAVOIDABLE.

WE CAN'T AVOID COMMENTING ABOUT IT AND LUXURIATING IN IT.

>> THIS MOVIE, JUST BECAUSE OF THE SUBJECT, I TRIED TO MAKE IT VERY AUSTERE IN THE NARRATIVE.

BUT, I DIDN'T INCLUDE THE COLORS.

I THINK IT IS MORE SOBER THAN THE OTHER MOVIES.

BUT, THE PALLET OF COLLINS ARE THE SAME.

THIS IS THE WAY THAT I MAKE MOVIES, WITH BRIGHT COLORS.

AND ALSO IN THIS CASE, I WANTED NOT TO BE DARK OR CREEPY BECAUSE OF THE DECISION TO DIE IS A SIGN OF REALISM.

IT IS TAKEN BY MARTHA IN A VITAL WAY.

I WANTED TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION OF VITALITY IN THIS LAST TIME OF HER LIFE, IN THE HOUSE IN THE FOREST, JUST TO REPRESENT THE CHARACTER OF MARTHA.

BECAUSE, I REALLY, THE PERSON SHOULD HAVE THE HONOR OF OUR LIFE FOR HIS LIFE FOR HER LIFE.

BUT, WE ALSO HAVE TO BE THE OWNER OF OUR DEATH, JUST ONE IN THE CASE OF MARTHA, WHEN LIFE ONLY OFFERS YOU AN AWFUL PAIN.

I THINK THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHT.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE HUMAN RIGHT THAT YOU TALK ABOUT AND THE POLITICAL PROCESS AROUND AROUND EUTHANASIA.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS A BILL, OR YOU MAY KNOW THERE IS A BILL ON THIS ISSUE GOING THROUGH THE UK PARLIAMENT.

THERE ARE SEVERAL STATES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ALLOW IT.

IN GENERAL, IT IS CONSIDERED ILLEGAL.

AND, OF COURSE, IN THE FILM, THAT WAS PART OF THE ISSUE.

ARE YOU ALSO TRYING TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS AROUND THIS ISSUE?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT IS VERY UNFAIR.

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM, EVERYBODY KNOWS, EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM IN YOUR FAMILY, YOUR LOVERS YOUR PARTNER, YOUR FRIEND SUFFERING.

SO, I MEAN THIS IS VERY HUMAN TO DECIDE IT, IF YOU CAN'T DECIDE IT, AND YOU CAN DO IT WITH A DOCTOR.

THE PROBLEM, IT IS LEGAL IN SPAIN.

WE ALLOW EUTHANASIA.

BUT, THE REALITY IS THAT SOMETIMES THE DOCTORS DON'T WANT TO DO IT WITH THE PERSON THAT IS ILL. CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS, YOU KNOW.

THEN, IT IS THE SAME THAT HAPPENED WITH ABORTION.

SOME DOCTORS REFUSE TO DO IT BECAUSE OF THEIR CONSCIENCE.

SO, WHAT I MEAN, THIS IS A PROBLEM ALWAYS WITH RELIGION BECOMES TALKING ABOUT CATHOLIC PEOPLE.

I MEAN, THEY THINK THAT GOD GIVES YOU THE LIFE AND ONLY HE CAN TAKE IT AWAY.

WHAT I WOULD ASK, BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO FACE IN A HUMAN WAY, NOT IN A POLITICAL WAY.

>> FINALLY, PEDRO ALMODSVAR, I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHAT IS YOUR NEXT FILM PROJECT, CAN YOU TELL US?

WHAT IS ON THAT AMAZING MIND OF YOURS NOW?

>> OH, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, MY AMAZING MIND.

IN MY AMAZING MIND, IT HAS ALREADY WROTE A NEW SCRIPT.

I DID IT IN JUST THE FORMER YEAR.

AND THEN IT WILL BE AGAIN ABOUT THE FEMALE UNIVERSE BUT THERE WILL BE MORE OF A MALE PRESENCE THEN IN THE LAST ONE.

IT IS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I ALWAYS IN MY MOVIES, THAT I AM CURIOUS, VERY INTERESTED IN, ABOUT CREATION.

IN THIS CASE, THE CREATION OF A MOVIE OR THE CREATION OF A SCRIPT.

AND, IN THE CASE OF THE MOVIE THAT I AM GOING TO DO, IS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE ARE THE LIMITS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ART OF FICTION, SELF FICTION.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR LIFE IN TERMS OF FICTION.

BUT, THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE THE PEOPLE THAT BELONG ALSO TO YOUR LIFE BUT IT IS A VERY DELICATE BALANCE THAT IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK THROUGH ABOUT THE OTHERS ARE NOT.

>> WILL IT BE IN ENGLISH OR IN SPANISH QUESTION EXPERIMENTS IN SPANISH.

IT WOULD BE IN SPANISH.

>> PEDRO ALMODSVAR, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH TO YOU.

>>> NOW, WE HAVE HEARD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW SILICON VALLEY HAS GONE ALL IN FOR 22.0 COMPARED TO THE DISTANCE THE TECH PROS KEPT DURING HIS FIRST TERM.

IT IS NOT JUST ELON MUSK.

MARK ZUCKERBERG HAS MADE THE PILGRIMAGE AND THE PRO-TRUMP CHANGES TO CONTENT CHECKING.

NOW, JOE LONSDALE, A BILLIONAIRE SILICON VALLEY INVESTOR TELLS WALTER ISAACSON WHY HE THINKS ARE SO MANY TECHNOLOGY LEADERS ARE MAKING THE SWITCH.

>> THANK YOU CHRISTIANE AND JOE LONSDALE, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS, GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BIG NEWS THIS PAST WEEK, WHICH IS MARK ZUCKERBERG DECIDING THAT FACEBOOK IS NO LONGER GOING TO MODERATE CONTENT.

ALL OF META IS GOING TO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT.

TELL ME, THAT IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR IN TERMS OF FREE SPEECH.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT AND WHAT THE DANGERS MIGHT BE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS.

IT HAS BEEN A BATTLE FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS, WALTER, AND THIS IS A HUGE VICTORY FOR THE SITE OF FREE SPEECH.

THERE IS A BIG SHIFT WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VICTORY, WITH ELON MUSK, WHO HAS BEEN WORKING HARD ON THIS.

HE IS THE BIGGEST CHAMPION.

IT IS A GREAT.

MARK HAS GIVEN HIM AND SAID YOU KNOW WHAT, I WAS WRONG.

PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST MY SENSORS ANYMORE, WE ARE GOING TO REDO IT, WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW ELON MUSK'S LEAD.

THIS WAS A DEBATE IN OUR SOCIETY.

IT TAKES A LOT OF CONFIDENCE TO ATTEND THE LOST AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING WASN'T CORRECT.

I HAVE TO APPLAUD MARK ZUCKERBERG.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ATTACKING HIM FOR ONLY DOING IT AFTER TRUMP WON.

HE SAID THIS IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND I WANT TO BE TRUSTED AGAIN AND I THINK THAT IS A GREAT THING.

>> OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT SOME OF THE POTENTIAL DOWNSIDES.

ARE CERTAIN THINGS, EVEN SAY FINANCIAL SCAMS OR CRYPTO SCANS OR DRUG SCAMS OR SOMETHING, DON'T THOSE HAVE TO BE WEEDED OUT?

>> I THINK THERE ARE DEFINITELY WEIRD SCAMS, ILLEGAL THINGS, BAD THINGS PEOPLE TRY TO DO.

YOU WANT TO TRY TO PAY ON THOSE ACCOUNTS FOR DOING SCAMS AND I THINK TWITTER TRIES TO DO THAT AS WELL.

THIS IS A VERY TOUGH GAME TO GET RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK FACEBOOK EVER GOT THAT FOR ME RIGHT, I DON'T THINK X GOT THAT RIGHT, I DON'T THINK OTHER WEBSITES GOT BUT FOR THE RIGHT., TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN WITH X AND FACEBOOK HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT FULLY RIGHT.

>> YOU BASICALLY HAVE THESE VERY COMPLICATED ALGORITHMS.

YOU HAVE BILLIONS OF POSTS, PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF POSTS, A LARGE NUMBER.

NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU HAVE, NO MATTER HOW MANY ALGORITHMS YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME TRADE-OFFS.

EVEN IF YOU ARE SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO ALLOW FREE SPEECH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALGORITHMS TO STOP CHILD ABUSE MATERIAL, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

YOU HAVE TO SET THE THINGS SOMEWHERE.

YOU HAVE TO TRY TO STOP PEOPLE WHO ARE POSTING SPAM, ANY ACCOUNT CUT DOING A SCAM, YOU HAVE TO TURN OFF.

YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE LAW, YOU ARE DOING YOUR VERY BEST, NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

IT IS QUITE A CHALLENGE.

IT IS AND FOR US TO SIT ON THE SIDELINES AND CRITICIZE THESE GUYS AND DECIDE YOU ARE DOING IS WRONG.

IT IS HARD TO BE IN CHARGE OF THESE PLATFORMS AND GET IT RIGHT.

I AGREE WITH MORE OF WHAT ELON MUSK WAS DOING THEN MARK ZUCKERBERG BUT I KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL AND HE WOULD GET ATTACKED FROM THE LEFT, HE WOULD GET ATTACKED FROM THE RIGHT.

IT IS A HARD THING TO GET THESE THINGS RIGHT.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN A CRUSADER AGAINST THE "WOKE MIND VIRUS."

I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR RARELY SEEN A PENDULUM SWING AS FAST AS IT HANDS AGAINST THAT TYPE OF THINKING.

DO YOU WORRY THAT THE PENDULUM MAY SWING TOO FAR, IN SOME WAYS?

>> WALTER, I AM WORRIED THE PENDULUM IS SWINGING CULTURALLY BUT WE ARE NOT EXPUNGING THESE IDEOLOGIES THAT HAVE CONQUERED OUR INSTITUTIONS.

IF YOU GO AROUND THE COUNTRY AND SEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED, MOST OF OUR UNIVERSITY DEPARTMENTS AND LIBERAL ARTS, HISTORY OR SOCIOLOGY OR EDUCATION OR SO MANY OTHER AREAS, SO MANY OF THESE PARTS OF OUR GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS, SO MANY OF OUR NGOs WERE COVERED BY THIS "WOKE MIND VIRUS," WHICH IS FOCUSED ON IDENTITY POLITICS, IT COMES FROM MARXISM, IT IS FOCUSED ON CANCEL CULTURE, IT IS AGAINST THE U.S. AND GUILT RIDDEN.

IT IS DRIVEN BY FEAR.

>> I HAVE UNDERSTOOD THE FIVE SHIFT IN TERMS OF THE THINGS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, SUCH AS IDENTITY POLITICS.

I ALSO WEIGH THAT AGAINST THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY, INCLUDING RACISM OR THE HEADWINDS THAT SOMEBODY IN NEW ORLEANS HERE, BORN BLACK IN THE NINTH WARD FACES COMPARED TO WHAT YOU AND I DO.

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T SORT OF LOOSE A BALANCE HERE?

>> 100%, WALTER.

THERE WAS THE TRUTH IS THAT THERE WAS AN EXTRA ORDINARY RACISM THAT HURT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, THESE COMMUNITIES ARE STILL DAMAGED FROM RACISM THAT HAPPENED.

AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, I THINK THE RACISM WAS MUCH, MUCH, MUCH WORSE IN THE PAST.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOT RACISM TODAY BUT I THINK IT WAS MUCH WORSE IN THE PAST.

ALL OF US SHOULD TO SEE THAT AND SHOULD WANT PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITY.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE ANSWER TO RACISM IS NOT MORE RACISM.

I THINK THAT WAS A HUGE MISTAKE OUR SOCIETY HAS MADE THE LAST 20 YEARS AND IT HAS INCREASED A LOT OF RACIAL ANIMUS IN OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE WE STARTED DOING THINGS LIKE DEI AND OTHERWISE THAT ACTIVELY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST WHITE MEN THAT ACTIVELY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO ARE SUCCESSFUL LIKE ASIANS AND OTHERS AND THAT IS, IF ANYTHING, NOT ONLY HAS ATTACKED MERIT AND BROKEN A LOT OF THINGS, JUST TERRIBLE, LOTS OF THINGS IN OUR SOCIETY ARE BROKEN, YOU CAN SEE FROM THE FIRES IN L.A.

BUT A TERRIBLE POLICY, AS RECEIVED FROM ALL SORTS OF METHODS, IT HAS CREATED MORE RACISM INTO PROBLEMS FOR MORE PEOPLE.

I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO TREAT EVERYONE RIGHT AND WE NEED TO NOT SWING AWAY FROM HELPING PEOPLE BUT WE DO NOT NEED TO KEEP DOING THIS RACISM BECAUSE THAT BREAKS THINGS MORE.

>> SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS IN THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD, MOST ELON MUSK AND VIVEK RAMASWAMY AND OTHERS, ARE PART OF THIS GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, I GUESS.

AND, YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH ALL OF THESE PEOPLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHAT IS THE GOAL?

>> YOU KNOW, OUR GOVERNMENT IS THE LEAST EFFICIENT PART OF OUR SOCIETY.

THERE ARE LITERALLY TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WASTED ON THINGS YOU CONSTANTLY SEE, WALTER.

TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR SOMETHING THAT NEVER HAPPENS WITH ELECTRIC CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE, HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR A TRAIN THAT PAYS MONEY TO LAWYERS BUT DOESN'T BUILD MUCH AT ALL.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON.

THERE ARE SO MANY PARTS OF OUR SOCIETY WHERE THE COST IS GOING UP BECAUSE GOVERNMENT IS INVOLVED AND IT IS CRUSHING THE MIDDLE CLASS, IT IS CRASHING THE WORKING CLASS AND IT IS UNNECESSARY.

WE DON'T NEED THIS WASTE.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS THEY ARE GOING TO GO IN AND THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT IT AND SAID WHAT PARTS OF THE BUREAUCRACY ARE ABLE TO BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN WHAT PARTS OF THE BUREAUCRACY HAVE NOT BEEN COMING TO WORK AT ALL FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS AND ARE GETTING A PAYCHECK WHILE WORKING ON THE SIDE, WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND WHAT THINGS CAN BE CUT?

BY THE WAY, NONGOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS OR NONPROFITS THAT GET A LOT OF MONEY FROM OUR GOVERNMENT CALL A LOT OF THEM ARE RADICAL IDEOLOGUES, A LOT OF THEM ARE BEING PAID TO TEACH PEOPLE TO FAKE ASYLUM, THEY ARE BEING PAID TO CAUSE MESSES IN OUR CITIES, A LOT OF STUFF NEEDS TO BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE AND NEEDS TO BE TURNED OFF.

A LOT OF US ARE REALLY EXCITED TO GO IN THERE AND APPLY MERIT, APPLY LOGIC TO FIX A LOT OF THIS BROKEN STUFF.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO BE INVOLVED?

>> I HAVE A LOT OF MY REALLY GOOD FRIENDS INVOLVED IN LIGHT OF PAST THEM A BUNCH OF IDEAS AND I AM PUBLISHING A BUNCH OF IDEAS.

I'M GOING TO KEEP HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.

I HAVE A FULL-TIME JOB RUNNING THE VENTURE CAPITAL FIRM, BUILDING COMPANIES IN THE U.S. WE ARE STARTING A NEW UNIVERSITY HERE.

I'M QUITE BUSY.

I'M EXCITED TO BE UP IN REFERENCE BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT TO FIX AND AM PASSIONATE ABOUT MAKING GOVERNMENT WORK FOR EVERYONE.

>> THERE ARE GOING TO BE GREAT CUTS IN GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND ORDER THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT, IT PROBABLY IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME SOME FROM THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AND YOU WERE A COFOUNDER OF PALANTIR, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIND BOTH MACHINE LEARNING IN NEW WAYS TO DO WAR FIGHTING.

TELL ME HOW YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, SHOULD WE GET RID OF THINGS LIKE THE F- 35s PLANE?

SHOULD WE HAVE A NEW VERSION OF WARFARE?

WILL THAT SAVE MONEY QUESTION >> DEFENSE IS A HUGE AREA THAT COULD BE A LOT MORE EFFICIENT, WALTER.

THERE COULD BE A BATTLE GOING ON IN THE BACKGROUND OF THE EVENT.

ALL THESE LEGACY COMPANIES MERGED TO FORM THE PRIMES, THE 90s IN THE COLD WAR AND PALANTIR AND SPACEX WERE THE FIRST TWO COMPANIES TO BECOME A NEW PRIMES SINCE THEN.

IT WAS DIFFICULT THE WAY THE LAWS WERE SET UP, YOU HAVE TO BE PERSISTENT.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE NEW ONES COMING UP TO COMPETE , JUST A REALLY COOL NEW TECHNOLOGY, FAR MORE ADVANCED THAN THE OLD PRIMES AND THERE IS A BATTLE BECAUSE THE OLD TIMES HAVE SET THINGS UP TO GET PAID COST- PLUS.

THEIR INCENTIVES HAVE BEEN TO MAKE THINGS 10 TIMES MORE EXTENSIVE THAN THEY NEED TO BE AND MAKE LOTS -- >> SHOULD IT WOULD'VE COST PLUS CONTRACT QUESTION >> THERE ARE VERY FEW.

WHERE IT MAKES SENSE.

THERE IS A SPECIFIC BODY LIKE AREAS WHERE IT MAY MAKE SENSE BUT FOR ANYTHING WITH SOFTWARE, COST-PLUS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE AND IT IS MORE COMPETENT.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF OTHER AREAS.

BETWEEN YOU AND ME, THERE ARE PLACES THAT ARE GREAT FOR THE ECONOMY OF THE ALL GIRL AREAS THAT DON'T ADD TO OUR DEFENSE.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE COMMENTS THAT ARE A FORM OF WELFARE, CERTAIN PARTS OF MILITARY SPENDING ARE A FORM OF WELFARE.

THEY ARE NOT ABOUT TO REFINE OUR ENEMIES, THEY ARE ABOUT DOING THINGS TO HELP COMMUNITIES.

I THINK OPEN COMMUNITIES IS GREAT BUT IF WE HAVE TO CUT BACK, WE NEED TO BE REASONABLE.

WHICH PART OF DEFENSE IS SCARING OUR ENEMIES AND WHICH PART HAS ROOM TO CUT BECAUSE IT IS NOT DOING THE THINGS DEFENSE IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING?

THESE ARE TOUGH CONVERSATIONS WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE AT SOME POINT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS AND THAT IS THE REALLY BIG HUNK -- >> IT IS 3.8, 3.8 TRILLION OF THE 6.5 TRILLION IS THE ENTITLEMENTS.

>> CAN THAT BE CUT SIGNIFICANTLY WITHOUT HURTING PEOPLE?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S PROBABLY ABOUT $300 MILLION OF THE 3.8 TRILLION, 0.3 AND THAT IS PROBABLY FRAUD.

THERE'S A MASSIVE, MASSIVE AMOUNT OF SCHEMES ON MEDICARE AND MEDICAID, HUGE NUMBERS OF CHINESE ASPIRING'S CLEANING THINGS, MEXICAN CARTELS INVOLVED IN THIS AS WELL, ALSO THE PEOPLE ILLEGALLY GIVING MONEY FOR THINGS, PEOPLE WHO WERE FOUND TO BE DEAD FOR YEARS, THEIR KIDS ARE GETTING THE MONEY.

WE HAVE NOT APPLIED ANTI-FRAUD.

IN BUSINESS, WALTER, WHEN WE WERE AT PAYPAL, ALL SORTS OF OTHER COMPANIES IN SILICON VALLEY HAVE GOT REALLY GOOD AT UNDERSTANDING HOW FRAUD WORKS AND HOW CLEVER PEOPLE ARE TO STEAL MONEY.

THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T PLAYED ANYTHING.

10 YEARS AGO, I TALKED TO PRESIDENT OBAMA ABOUT THIS AND HE WANTED TO DO IT.

IT'S STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD LOOK BAD IF WE SPENT TIME SHOWING OFF HOW MUCH FRAUD THERE IS.

THE FRAUD HAS ONLY GROWN.

WE COULD DEFINITELY CUT A HUGE AMOUNT OF FRAUD IF THEY LET US AND I HOPE AND WITH THIS THING.

>> FRAUD EVEN AT BEST IS $300 BILLION AND YOU WILL CHIP AWAY AT IT.

IS THERE SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS THAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE CUT?

>> YOU KNOW, ON THE MARGIN, I THINK THERE ARE THINGS EVERYONE AGREES WITH.

I'M NOT SURE MILLIONAIRES SHOULD BE GETTING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

IF I WERE TO LOSE MY JOB, I WILL MAKE IT.

YOU DON'T NEED TO GIVE ME UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE.

RIGHT NOW, YOU WOULD.

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THAT COSTS US A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE ARE SOME MARGINAL THINGS LIKE THAT KIND TO ENTITLEMENTS THAT ARE EASY TO FIX.

IN TERMS OF BIGGER CUTS, THERE SO MANY OTHER AREAS RIGHT NOW WHERE I THINK WE COULD SAVE HALF $1 TRILLION-$1 TRILLION THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION, PRESIDENT HAS SAID HE'S GOING TO FOCUS ON AREAS OTHER THAN CORE ENTITLEMENTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO FOCUS ON.

OUR JOB IS TO FOLLOW THE PRESIDENT.

>> WHAT ABOUT TAKING OUT REGULATIONS?

LET'S TAKE HEALTH CARE, FOR EXAMPLE.

TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD YOU HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT WITH DEREGULATION?

>> HEALTH CARE AND REGULATION IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE AREAS.

I AM GLAD YOU ASKED.

I THINK EVERYONE AGREES YOU WANT TO HAVE ENOUGH LEVELS TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

YOU DON'T WANT SOME KIND OF CRAZY WILD WEST HERE.

AT THE SAME TIME, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE REGULATORY STATE, WALTER, THESE THINGS AGGLOMERATE OVER TIME WHERE THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RULES.

YOU KNOW WHO LOBBIES FOR THE RULES IS THE GIANT COMPANIES, UNITED HEALTH CARE, THE HEALTH SYSTEMS WE DON'T WANT COMPETITION.

RIGHT NOW IN AMERICA, WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES.

FOR TABLE, IF SOMEONE HAS DIABETES, THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANCE THEY COULD DIABETIC RETINOPATHY, WHICH MAKES THEM GO BLIND.

WE HAVE A COMPANY WITH A HIGH, PLUS A NURSE IN ANY RURAL AREA CAN CHECK THAT CAN STOP YOU FROM GOING BLIND.

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF RULES THAT THE PEOPLE PAYING FOR IT BECAUSE IT IS A I, STOPPING IN FOR IT IF A DOCTOR IS NOT PRESENT.

THERE'S THAT TIMES 10,000 WEAR HEALTH CARE AND GETTING MUCH MORE EXCITED BECAUSE OF ALL THESE CAPTURED RULES AND ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THOSE.

I'M REALLY EXCITED FOR START TO OPEN IT UP, TO LET PEOPLE COMPETE WITH HEALTH SYSTEMS IN WAYS THEY DON'T WANT COMPETITION.

IF WE DON'T DO THAT, THE COST IS GOING TO GO UP.

THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR OUR COUNTRY.

>> PALANTIR HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF USING TECHNOLOGY AND MACHINE LEARNING FOR EVERYTHING FROM MILITARY USES, GOVERNMENT USES, INTELLIGENCE USES.

I WAS ALWAYS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT YOU NAME IT PALANTIR OUT OF "LORD OF THE RINGS ," WHICH IS A PROJECT IN STONE.

BUT, AS YOU REMEMBER FROM THE BOOK, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THAT CAN GO WRONG.

THE BAD GUYS CAN GET IT.

>> THAT IS THE WARNING BUILT IN.

PALANTIR WAS BUILT 2000 YEARS AGO BY THESE ELVES PARTNERING WITH THE GOOD HUMANS AND THEY CLEAN THE LAND OF BAD GUYS AND HAD A GOLDEN AGE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

WHAT HAPPENS IS EVENTUALLY A BAD GUY GETS IN CHARGE OF THE PALANTIR STONES AND THAT CAUSES VERY SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

THAT WAS EXPENSIVELY ONE OF THE RECENTLY BUILT PALANTIR.

IT WASN'T JUST TO STOP THE BAD GUYS, WE HELPED ELIMINATED THOUSANDS OF TERRORISTS AND PREVENT HUGE NUMBERS OF ATTACKS.

WHAT WE ARE ALSO TRYING TO DO IS BUILT INTO PALANTIR THE AUDIT TRAILS AND TREMORS TO PROTECT CIVIL LIBERTIES AND CREATE MEDICAL USES IT, PEOPLE CAN GO BACK AND SEE HOW IT WAS USED, THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP CAN WATCH THE WATCHERS.

THERE IS NO PERFECT SOLUTION FOR HUMANITY WITH POWER, WALTER.

IF YOU FIGURE IT OUT, LET ME KNOW.

BY TREATING POWER FOR THE GOOD GUYS AND TRYING TO MAKE IT WATCH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, TRYING TO LET EVERYONE KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE IS THE BEST WE CAN DO AND IT HAS DONE A LOT OF GOOD.

ALL OF US HAVE TO BE WARY OF THE POWER OF GOVERNMENT.

>> ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE FIRST TRUMPET TERM AND THIS UPCOMING TRUMPET IS THAT THIS TIME AROUND, THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF TECHNOLOGY INNOVATORS, PEOPLE LIKE YOUR FRIENDS AND EVEN YOURSELF, WHO ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN IT.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THIS UPCOMING TERM DIFFERENT THAN THE FIRST TERM, AND WHAT GUARDRAILS SHOULD THERE BE AROUND ALL OF THESE IDEAS?

>> YOU KNOW, WALTER, IT IS FUNNY.

THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS OF SEEING THINGS IN THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD.

TO BE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OBNOXIOUS FOR A SECOND, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUILDING THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES FOR OUR GENERATION, THESE ARE THE MOST COURAGEOUS PEOPLE IN OUR GENERATION.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IN OUR GENERATION, THESE ARE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE TAKING RISKS, PUTTING THEMSELVES OUT THERE, IN SOME CASES FAILING AND FEELING BEFORE THEY SUCCEED.

AND, THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT AND HOPING THING TO HAPPEN IN LEADERSHIP.

WHEN YOU HAVE THINGS AS BROKEN AS THEY ARE IN OUR GOVERNMENT, TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS LIT ON FIRE, WHEN YOU HAVE MASSIVE FAILURES IN THE SECRET SERVICE, MASSIVE FAILURES IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FBI AND OTHERS WERE FOCUSING ON, WHEN YOU HAVE TERRORISTS LET INTO OUR BORDERS BECAUSE THINGS ARE RUN SO BADLY, YOU NEED BOLD PEOPLE, YOU NEED COMPETENT PEOPLE WILLING TO CHANGE THINGS AGGRESSIVELY.

THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO GO IN AND FIX AND CHANGE THINGS.

WE HAVE SOME GREAT LEADERS GOING IN WHO HAVE WON BIG COMPANIES, WHO DO KNOW HOW TO PUT BOUNDARIES IN PLACE, YOU KNOW HOW TO MAKE THINGS WORK AND I AM EXCITED TO SEE THEM THERE.

>> AS YOU KNOW, ELON MUSK TALKED ABOUT BEING A NATION OF RISKTAKERS AND WE HAVE TOO MANY REFEREES NOW AND NOT ENOUGH RISKTAKERS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW, HE FEELS YOU NEED SOME GUARDRAILS.

ARE THERE GOING TO BE ENOUGH GUARDRAILS IN THE SECOND TRUMPET TERM?

>> OF COURSE.

AMERICAN IS A GREAT MISSION BECAUSE OF ITS FRONTIER MINDSET, WALTER.

AMERICA HAS ALWAYS HAD A FRONTIER, WHETHER THE FRONTIER IS THE WEST, WHETHER THE FRONTIER IS SPACE.

THAT MINDSET OF BEING ABLE TO TRY THINGS AND DO THINGS TO FAIL IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

YOU ALWAYS HAVE A BALANCE BETWEEN ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND GUARDRAILS.

WHEN I FIRST DID ONE OF MY FIRST COMPANIES, AND ON THE WHOLE, AMERICANS FOR EXPRESS AT THE TIME WITH THE LEAD CEO AND THERE WERE 22 LAWYERS ON THE: I WAS BLOWN AWAY.

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMETHING GETS TO BE TOO BIG.

YOU GET 22 LAWYERS.

IT IS COMICAL BUT IT IS HOW IT WORKS.

THERE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE ZERO LAWYERS.

THERE PROBABLY SHOULD BE A FEW OF THEM BUT YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT 22.

THERE'S WAY TOO MANY REFEREES.

IS THAT YOU GET RID OF EVERYTHING?.

MAYBE ELON MUSK AND I ARE 21.

I WOULDN'T TRUST ME AT 21 RUNNING A COUNTRY.

I WOULDN'T TRUST YOU EITHER AT 21.

IF YOU BUILT COMPANIES AND YOU RUN THEM AND YOU ARE OLDER AND HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS, IT IS A BALANCE.

YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME CHECKING THINGS, YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME STRONG ENTREPRENEURIAL ENERGY.

RIGHT NOW, OUR GOVERNMENT HAS LOST THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SIDE, IT IS THE TEAM OF THE THOUSANDS OF LAWYERS AND WE NEED TO BALANCE THAT OUT.

THIS IS A GREAT DIRECTION WE ARE GOING IN RIGHT NOW.

>> JOE LONSDALE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, WALTER.

>>> THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.