>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": GOVERNOR BAKER DEFENDED HIS ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO BEAT BACK THE LATEST COVID SURGE BEFORE A COMMITTEE OF LAWMAKERS TODAY.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MANDATES, VACCINES, MASKS, AND MORE, SOME LEGISLATORS SAY HE CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING MORE.

TWO OF THEM, THE CHAIRS OF THE LEGISLATURE'S JOINT COVID COMMITTEE, JOIN ME.

THEN, LATER, BOSTON SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT BRENDA CASSELLIUS ON TRYING TO KEEP KIDS IN CLASSROOMS DURING THIS RECORD-SETTING COVID SURGE, EVEN AS HUNDREDS OF TEACHERS AND STAFF HAVE CALLED OUT.

♪♪ >> Braude: WITH HOSPITALS' STAFF AND RESOURCES STRETCHED THIN, SCHOOLS STRUGGLING TO STAY OPEN, AND COVID NUMBERS THE HIGHEST THEY'VE EVER BEEN IN MASSACHUSETTS, LAWMAKERS PRESSED GOVERNOR BAKER TODAY ON WHAT HE AND HIS ADMINISTRATION ARE DOING AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT THEY BELIEVE HE IS NOT DOING TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE, PUSHING FOR ACTION ON MORE STATEWIDE GUIDELINES AND MANDATES.

>> I CAN'T SAY TO THE HOSPITAL FOLKS, HEY, LISTEN.

WE'RE THE BEST, WE'RE BETTER THAN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION, SO WE SHOULD BE OKAY.

THAT DOES NOT HELP THEM.

I THINK THERE IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT WE CAN DO.

SO I'M ASKING YOU, CAN WE LOOK AT THIS, CAN WE DO SOMETHING WITH THE SENSE OF URGENCY THAT IT DESERVES?

>> Braude: IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S THIRD TIME TESTIFYING ABOUT HIS HANDLING OF THE PANDEMIC BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE'S JOINT COVID OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, TESTIMONY THAT CAME JUST A FEW HOURS AFTER HIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE STATE HAS SIGNED A CONTRACT TO BRING 26 MILLION RAPID TESTS INTO THE STATE OVER THE NEXT THREE MONTHS, ALTHOUGH HE HASN'T YET SAID HOW HE PLANS TO DISTRIBUTE THOSE, EXCEPT TO NOTE SCHOOLS AND CHILDCARE WILL BE THE TOP PRIORITIES, AND HE ACKNOWLEDGED IN THE HEARING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT SUPPLY-CHAIN CONCERNS COULD MESS WITH THAT TIMELINE.

BAKER ALSO HIGHLIGHTED TO COMMITTEE MEMBERS THE STATE'S NEW DIGITALVw PROOF-OF-VACCINATION WEBSITE, WHICH LAUNCHED YESTERDAY AND LETS PEOPLE DOWNLOAD A VIRTUAL VACCINE CARD WITH THEIR INFORMATION AND A Q.R.

CODE, SHOWING ANY COVID VACCINES THEY'VE GOTTEN IN THE STATE.

AND HE NOTED NEW GUIDELINES FROM THE STATE'S DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, RECOMMENDING PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO COVID GET TESTED FIVE DAYS AFTER THEY WERE EXPOSED OR STARTED SHOWING SYMPTOMS.

THE PROBLEM?

IT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION.

AND WHILE THE DIGITAL PROOF OF VACCINATION IS A WELCOME DEVELOPMENT, IT'S ONLY USEFUL IF BUSINESSES ACTUALLY CHECK THEM.

BUT WHEN COMMITTEE MEMBERS ASKED ABOUT MANDATING THINGS LIKE VACCINES OR MASKS, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY MARYLOU SUDDERS HAD THIS TO SAY: "WE ARE NOT INCLINED TO DO A MANDATE."

>> Braude: A RESPONSE THAT PROMPTED THESE CLOSING WORDS FROM ONE OF THE COMMITTEE'S CO-CHAIRS: >> WHEN WE AS A STATE DON'T TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE NEED TO TAKE WHEN IT COMES TO MANDATES THAT CAN BE VERY UNPOPULAR, I WORRY FOR OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS.

>> Braude: THAT CO-CHAIR, STATE SENATOR JOANNE COMERFORD OF NORTHAMPTON, JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH FELLOW CO-CHAIR STATE REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM DRISCOLL OF MILTON.

>> Braude: THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: SHARE WHERE YOU THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS FALLING SHORT -- COULD YOU EACH PICK ONE MAJOR AREA WHERE YOU THINK THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION HAS GOTTEN IT REALLY RIGHT ON COVID.

SENATOR, STARTING WITH YOU?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

FIRST, IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, THERE WAS A LOT OF VERY TARGETED, POINTED, STRATEGIC, TIRELESS WORK THAT HAPPENED TO ADDRESS COVID-19 HEAD-ON.

JUST AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR INTRODUCTION, JUST BEFORE THIS HEARING, THERE WERE SOME VERY NECESSARY STEPS,, INCLUDING 26 MILLION RAPID TESTS THAT ARE GOING TO COME INTO THE COMMONWEALTH, WHICH I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE IS SO MUCH MORE NECESSARY THAN THE INITIAL BOUT OF THOSE RAPID TESTS THAT WERE INSUFFICIENT TO BEAT THE NUMBERS AND THE DEMAND.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, HE IS DOING A HELL OF A LOT BETTER IN THE PROCUREMENT OF TESTS THAN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I SHOULD SAY.

IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY FROM EARLY LAST YEAR'S HEARINGS, YOU ALL WERE QUITE CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNOR'S HANDLING OF THE PANDEMIC, WITH THE INEQUITIES HAVING SMOOTHED OUT TO A SERIOUS DEGREE.

HAS THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION HANDLED THE BETTER OR NO?

>> WELL ONE OF THE THINGS THE ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE WELL IS THE PIVOT FROM THE EARLY ROLLOUT, THE LUMP YES, SIR LUMPINESS AND BUMPINESS.

WE HAVE ONLY 44% OF KIDS FIVE TO 1 11 VACCINATED RIGHT NOW.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US SET SOME GOALS SO THAT WE CAN MEET AND GET OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC SOONER.

I THINK IT WAS PRODUCTIVE IN DEMONSTRATING THE PURPOSE OF THE COVID COMMITTEE.

THE ADMINISTRATION ACTED ON THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED IN THE TOP OF THIS SHOW, IN THE LAST 48 HOURS.

I WAS THINKING IF THE GOVERNOR WANTED TO MAKE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS BEFORE HE GOT STARTER TODAY, BUT I THINK WE GOT ANSWERS TO SEVERAL OF OUR QUESTIONS, AND IT WILL HELP INFORM OUR ACTIONS IN THE LEGISLATURE GOING FORWARD.

>> Braude: I WOULD GUESS THAT THE HEARING DIDN'T DO ANYTHING BUT HELP SPEED THOSE ANNOUNCEMENTS.

REPRESENTATIVE, STAYING WITH YOU, I THINK VIEWERS KNOW THIS AND MY RADIO SHOW ARE MANDATE CENTRAL ASSOCIATION I SHOULD BE FULLY TRANSPARENT, WE BELIEVE IN MANDATES IN CRISES LIKE THIS.

I'M ASSUMING YOU BOTH BELIEVE, AM I RIGHT, THAT THERE SHOULD BE A MASS BE MANDATE STATEWIDE?

YOU'RE NODDING, SO I ASSUME YOU'RE AGREEING?

>> YES.

>> Braude: WHEN THAT TOPIC WAS BROACHED WITH SECRETARY SANDERS AND THE GOVERNOR, WHAT EXPLANATION WAS THERE FOR NOT DOING WHAT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE HEALTH OFFICIAL I'VE HEARD IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?

>> I THINK THE COORDINATED, COLLECTIVE ACTIONS, LIKE A STATEWIDE GOAL FOR VACCINATIONS FOR ADULTS AND KIDS, I THINK THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ACTIONS.

AND WHEN THEY'RE DONE COLLECTIVELY, IN A COORDINATED FASHION, WE KNOW WE CAN GET THINGS DONE.

I THINK THE SECRETARY WAS ALSO CORRECT, THOUGH: A MASK MANDATE ALONG ALONE WILL NOT END THE SURGE.

IT CAN PREVENT A SURGE, SLOW TRANSMISSION, BUT WE NEED COORDINATED APPROACHES.

THAT'S HOW WE EITHER PREVENT US FROM GETTING TO THIS POINT OR HELP US GET OUT OF IT.

>> Braude: REPRESENTATIVE, WHY SHOULDN'T THERE BE A VACCINATION MANDATE STATEWIDE, NOT UNLIKE THE ONE THAT EXISTS IN BOSTON AS OF SATURDAY?

YOU WANT TO GO INTO A PERFORMANCE VENUE, YOU WANT TO GO TO A GYM, YOU WANT TO GO TO A RESTAURANT, YOU'RE VACCINATED OR ELSE YOU DON'T GO?

>> I THINK IT IS A COMPLETELY FAIR QUESTION, AND ONE I TALKED TO MY COLLEAGUES ABOUT OFTEN.

PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE STATE ARE IN DIFFERENT PLACES ON THIS.

I THINK AS WE CONTINUE TO THE EFFICACY AND THE SAFETY OF THE VACCINES PROVE IT, WITH EACH SHOT GIVEN SHOWN TO BE SAFE, I THINK WE'LL GET THAT SOME DAY.

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW, LIKE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD DATA OUT THERE AND IT CONTINUES TO GET BETTER.

IF YOU'RE FULLY UP TO DATE WITH YOUR VACCINATIONS, YOUR LIKELIHOOD OF ENDING UP IN THE HOSPITAL WITH SEVERE ILLNESS IS CUT DRAMATICALLY DOWN.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS -- SENATOR, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS VOICED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT YOU HEAR AS OPPOSED TO MASK MANDATES, THE KEY ISSUE IS GET VACCINATED.

BUT IN THIS STATE IN THE LAST WEEK, THE NUMBER OF BREAK-THROUGH INFECTIONS WAS 13,000 OR 14,000 EACH DAY, AND 112 DEATHS FOR BREAK-THROUGH INFECTIONS.

AGAIN, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE TERM: FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE.

DOESN'T THAT UNDER CUT THE ARGUMENT IT IS ALL ABOUT VACCINATIONS AND MASK MANDATES ARE NOT THAT IMPORTANT?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY UNDERCUTS IT.

WE, OF COURSE, HAVE TO LEAN IN AS A STATE, WITH PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS, TO THE MESSAGING AND THE BELIEF IN THE EFFICACY, AS THE CHAIR SAID, OF VACCINATIONS.

BUT WE CAN'T FOR A MOMENT THINK THAT ALL WE HAVE TO DEPLOY IS A VACCINE MANDATE OR A VACCINE ROLLOUT IN ORDER TO GET THE KIND OF EFFICACY IN TERMS OF MEETING THIS OMICRON PANDEMIC HEAD-ON.

WE HAVE A -- WE MUST HAVE A VACCINE PLUS MANDATE, AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE, I THINK, UNIVERSAL MASK MANDATE FOR TARGETED INDOOR SPACES AND A TARGETED VACCINE MANDATE FOR SOME LARGER VENUES, LIKE NIGHTCLUBS AND STADIUMS AND THEATERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Braude: I WANT TO RETURN TO THE MANDATES IN ONE SECOND, BUT QUICKLY IF I CAN, STARTING WITH YOU, SENATOR, EMERGENCY ROOMS BURSTING AT THE SEEMS IN LOTS OF PLACES IN THE STATE, AND SMALL BUSINESSES, INCLUDING ONES I PATRONIZE IN MY HOME TOWN OF CAMBRIDGE, HANGING BY A THREAD.

IS THE ADMINISTRATION DOING ENOUGH?

IS THE LEGISLATURE DOING ENOUGH ON BOTH OF THOSE FRONTS, SENATOR, TO KEEP EMERGENCY ROOMS SAFE, TO KEEP THE STAFF FROM GOING OUT OF THEIR MINDS, TON AND TO KEEP SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AFLOAT?

>> TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

I THINK THEY TALK TO EACH OTHER.

WITH REGARD TO EMERGENCY ROOM, NO, WE'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH AT THE STATE.

WE NEED TO SLOW THE WAVE OF OMICRON, AND WE NEED TO STEM THAT SPIKE AND SHORTEN THE CURVE.

WE NEED TO DO THAT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH, AS THE GOVERNOR SAID REPEATEDLY DURING TODAY'S HEARING, THAT OMICRON DOESN'T MAKE YOU SICK UNLESS YOU'RE UNVACCINATED -- I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND -- BUT IT DOES BREAKTHROUGH, AS YOU'RE SAYING, AND IT HAS CAUSED PEOPLE TO ENTER THE HOSPITAL WHO WOULDN'T IMAGINE TO BE AT RISK IF THEY WERE FULLY VACCINATED.

THERE ARE THESE CASES, AND THEY ARE TIPPING THE SCALES.

AND OUR HOSPITALS ARE DEPLETED; THEY'RE UNDERSTAFFED; AND WORKERS ARE EXHAUSTED.

WE HAVE TO DO OUR BEST TO MEET THIS PANDEMIC HEAD-ON.

>> Braude: HOW ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES?

IS THERE MORE HELP COMING FROM THE STATE?

>> I DO THINK THERE IS MORE HELP COMING FROM THE STATE.

THE HOUSE AND LEGISLATURE JOINED TOGETHER FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

I THINK WE SHOULD AND CAN DO MORE.

I THINK UNIFORM STATE GUIDANCE WILL BE OF HUGE HELP TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY'LL HAVE A MASK MANDATE IN ONE COMMUNITY AND NOT IN ANOTHER, AND THAT COULD DISPROPORTIONATELY BURDEN A SMALL BUSINESS.

>> Braude: SENATOR DRISCOLL, IF YOU IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNOR, FOR EXAMPLE, WON'T DO A MASK MANDATE, IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY THAT THE GOVERNOR, FOR EXAMPLE, DO A VACCINE TARGET, WHY DON'T YOU DO IT?

IT'S AN OVERWHELMINGLY DEMOCRAT LEGISLATURE, WHY DON'T YOU DO A MASK MANDATE TOMORROW?

>> THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT IS THE LEGISLATURE IS A DELIBERATE BRATE BODY, IN FIGURING OUT THE POLICY AND THE REST OF THE RESCUE MONEY GOES, AS WE DID WITH THE MONEY BACK IN JUNE OF 2021, FOR THIS VERY DAY, IF THERE IS A VARIANT SURGE.

THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATION FOR THE COMMONWEALTH.

THEY CAN MAKE QUICK DECISIONS AND ACT WITH THE DEPARTMENTS TO PUT THOSE THINGS IN PLACE.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT, AGAIN -- YOUR QUESTION ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES AND HOSPITALS IN THE LONG-TERM, WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS BECAUSE I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE DAMAGE THAT IS BEING DONE TO THE HOSPITAL WORKFORCE AND THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE, INDUSTRIES LIKE THAT.

>> Braude: I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.

RESPECTFULLY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU BELIEVE THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNOR TO BE, BUT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNOR IS DOING WHAT YOU THINK IS NECESSARY, ISN'T IT INCUMBENT ON THE LEGISLATURE TO FILL THE HOLE?

I ONLY HAVE 30 SECONDS.

>> I THINK TODAY IS THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE POINT OF THE COMMITTEE IS, TO HAVE PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY, WHICH IS IMPORTANT, TO TALK THROUGH THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ON WHERE THE GOVERNOR AND HIS TEAM, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

IT IS REALLY INCUMBENT UPON THEM IN MANAGING THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO MAKE THOSE STATEWIDE DECISIONS, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DECISIONS WILL BE.

>> Braude: IF HE DOESN'T DO THEM, I HOPE YOU DO.

SENATOR AND REPRESENTATIVE, I'M GLAD YOU'RE HOLDING HEARINGS AND MADE TIME FOR US TONIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS, JIM.

>> Braude: SEVERAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS WERE CLOSED TODAY: BOSTON, SPRINGFIELD, AND WORCESTER AMONG THEM, CITING THE COLD.

BUT, OF COURSE, THE COVID FACTORS LIKELY LOOMED LARGE IN THOSE DECISIONS AS WELL, WITH MORE THAN IS THOUSAND TEACHERS AND STAFF OUT THIS WEEK IN BOSTON ALONE.

THE DISAGREEMENT OVER HOW BEST TO NAVIGATE SCHOOLING AS WE APPROACH THE THIRD YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC HAS PLAYED OUT IN PUBLIC VIEW RECENTLY, WITH BOSTON MAYOR MICHELLE WU SAYING THAT ALTHOUGH IN-PERSON LEARNING IS BEST, THE CITY MIGHT, ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, USE A TOOL THAT GOVERNOR BAKER HAS STRONGLY PUSHED AGAINST: REMOTE LEARNING.

>> WHETHER OR NOT WE GET CREDIT FROM THE STATE FOR A DAY OF REMOTE LEARNING, IF A SCHOOL NEEDS TO -- ON A SCHOOL-BY-SCHOOL BASIS -- NEEDS TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF STAFFING ISSUES, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THAT, IF THAT'S THE SAFEST WAY TO ADMINISTER LEARNING THAT DAY.

IT JUST MEANS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE UP DAYS AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

>> WE'VE SAID ALL ALONG THAT WE THINK THE BEST PLACE FOR KIDS IS IN SCHOOL.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO HELP THEM DELIVER ON THAT AGENDA, BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY WHERE WE WANT TO BE.

>> Braude: JOINING ME ON THAT, AND THE TOO MANY TO LIST CHALLENGES SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS ARE FACING IN THIS LATEST SURGE, IS BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT BRENDA CASSELLIUS.

>> Braude: SUPERINTENDENT, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU AS WELL, JIM.

>> Braude: SO LOW VACCINATION RATES AMONG PARTICULARLY YOUNGER STUDENTS, STAFF SHORTAGES, HIGH NUMBERS OF INFECTIONS AMONG STUDENTS, IS IT REALISTIC TO THINK YOU CAN AVOID GOING REMOTE AT SOME POINT?

>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE AVOIDING THAT AT EVERY COST, AND IT HAS BEEN AN ALL-HANDS-ON-DECK.

AND WE'RE APPRECIATIVE OF MAYOR WU AND HER ABILITY TO SEE AND ASSESS ON THE GROUND WITH ME.

WE'VE BEEN PARTNERING PARTNERING ON THIS AND LOOKING AT ALL OF OUR NUMBERS.

WE'RE LOOKING AT OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE, STAFFING CHALLENGES, AND ALSO THE HEALTH REALITY ON THE GROUND IN OUR SCHOOLS.

AND SO THOSE THREE MEASURES ARE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERY SINGLE DAY WITH OUR SCHOOL LEADERS AND OUR SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS AS WE ASSESS SCHOOL BY SCHOOL, CLASSROOM BY CLASSROOM, AND EVEN THE DISTRICT IF WE HAVE TO.

CLOSED ON FRIDAY AND TODAY BECAUSE OF OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES DUE TO WEATHER.

AND SO WE'LL CONTINUE TO MAKE THOSE CALLS AS NEEDED.

>> Braude: DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNOR IS BEING TOO RIGID IN HIS POSITION TO SAY NO CREDIT TOWARDS THE 180-DAY SCHOOL MANDATE IF YOU END UP GOING REMOTE.

DOES HE UNDERSTAND, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, HOW DIFFICULT IT IS FOR YOU AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR YOU, THAT IT IS TO DO THIS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT?

>> WELL, THE DIFFICULTY ISN'T JUST HERE.

IT IS HERE IN BOSTON, IT'S ACROSS THE NATION.

YOU SEE IT ON THE NEWS EVERY NIGHT.

GOOD TO SEE THEM TALKING ABOUT OUR SCHOOLS, BUT NOT FOR THIS, RIGHT?

SO I THINK THAT HE, YOU KNOW, IS GOOD TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON FOR US TO BE IN PERSON, BUT I DO BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY.

IN 2020, THEY GAVE US 10 DAYS OF FLEXIBILITY.

THEY LOWERED THE SCHOOL YEAR TO 170 DAYS.

HE COULD BUILD A LOT OF GOODWILL IF HE GAVE US A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY.

>> Braude: IF YOU HAVE TO GO REMOTE, ARE YOU PREPARED AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE -- I ASKED THAT QUESTION OF THE MAYOR WHEN SHE WAS HERE.

HERE IS MAYOR WU.

>> AS A DISTRICT, WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WORK TO DO.

BUT BETWEEN THE DIVISIVE AND THE FAMILY ENGAGEMENT, THERE IS A LOT OF WORK IN CHANGING OVER.

>> Braude: A LOT OF WORK IN CHANGING OVER.

IS THE WORK READY?

WOULD YOU BE READY IF YOU HAD THE NEED?

>> WE DID IT IN 2020, SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING AND WE KNOW HOW TO GET IT DONE.

OUR STUDENTS HAVE DEVICES, AND WE HAVE WI-FI NOW.

THOSE ARE THINGS WE DIDN'T HAVE IN 2020.

WE KNOW HOW TO SET UP SUPER SITES FOR FOOD, SO CHILDREN CAN GET FOOD IN THEIR TUMMIES.

AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE MAYOR AND THE CITY TO BE PREPARED IN CASE WE DO HAVE TO PIVOT TO REMOTE.

SO WE ARE PREPARED EITHER ON A SCHOOL LEVEL OR A DISTRICT LEVEL.

I THINK WE WOULD NEED A 24-HOUR OR 48-HOUR NOTICE TO PUT IT IN GEAR IF WE REALLY NEEDED TO DO IT.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE WATCHING THE NUMBERS THREE TIMES A DAY, TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A GOOD, GOOD PULSE ON OUR SATISFYING.

SATISFYING -- STAFFING.

WE MEET IN THE MORNINGS, IN THE AFTERNOON, AND IN THE EVENINGS.

>> Braude: I KNOW YOU WERE FOCUSED ON INEQUITIES IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND THERE WAS A REALLY TROUBLING PIECE ON GBH NEWS BY MEG WOOLHOUSE, COMPARING NEEDHAM SCHOOLS AND THE BOSTON SCHOOLS.

TALKING ABOUT NEEDHAM, IF YOU NEED TO QUARANTINE OR ISOLATE OR YOU'RE SICK, YOU JUST MAKE A PHONE CALL AND YOU CAN LIVESTREAM YOUR CLASS.

IN BOSTON THEY DESCRIBE THE PROCEDURE WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO BE SICK AT LEAST TWO WEEKS, AND RESPECTFULLY, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH HOOPS.

I THINK THERE IS A SIX-POINT PROCEDURE TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS KIND OF THING.

WHY CAN THE KIDS IN THE WEALTHIER DISTRICT OF NEEDHAM LIVESTREAM A CLASS IF THEY'RE OUT ONE DAY, AND THE KIDS IN BOSTON HAVE TO BE OUT TWO WEEKS AND SATISFY ALL OF THESE CRITERIA TO BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING?

>> WELL, WE HAVE A FANTASTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR TEACHERS.

WE DO HAVE THE SAME AVAILABILITY.

WE HAVE CAMERAS IN EVERY SINGLE CLASSROOM, SO OUR TEACHERS CAN LIVESTREAM IF THEY CHOOSE TO.

WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH OUR TEACHERS RIGHT NOW THAT THEY WON'T DO HYBRID LEARNING, BUT THAT THEY WILL UPLOAD MATERIALS FOR STUDENTS FOR CONTINUITY OF LEARNING.

AND WE HAVE A WONDERFUL NEW PRODUCT THAT WE'RE USING CALLED "PAPER," WHICH IS 24 24-HOUR ONLINE TUTORING, SO IF THEY HAVE TO QUARANTINE OR ISOLATE, THEY CAN USE THE "PAPER."

AND THEY CAN GET INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO ACCESS THE TUTORING AND THEIR DAILY LESSONS.

>> Braude: BUT THAT REPORT IS RIGHT, THAT THEY CANNOT, UNLESS THEY'RE OUT TWO WEEKS IN BOSTON, LIVESTREAM THAT CLASS.

IS THAT NOT CORRECT?

>> OUR TEACHERS ARE WORKING WITH THE STUDENTS FOR ANY ABSENCE THAT THEY HAVE.

WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY IN OUR SCHOOLS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO LIVESTREAM IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO.

BUT OUR AGREEMENT WITH OUR OUR'OURTEACHERS' UNION RIGHT NOW IS THEY'RE NOT LIVESTREAMING RIGHT NOW -- >> Braude: ISN'T THAT SHORT CHANGING THE KIDS?

>> I THINK WE'RE USING THE WAY WE'RE ABLE TO GET OUR STUDENTS THE LESSONS THEY WITH THEIR STUDENTS EVERY DAY.

WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY, AND SOME TEACHERS ARE USING IT.

AND OTHERS HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO AT THIS POINT.

>> Braude: YOU -- THERE WAS A LOT OF STORIES ABOUT YOU RETURNING TO A CLASSROOM, I THINK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN IN 20 YEARS.

AND YOU SEEMED PRETTY HAPPY.

THERE IS A GREAT BYTE OF A KID AT THE SCHOOL WHERE YOU SUBBED, WHEN HE HEARD YOU WERE GOING.

>> IT IS SOMEBODY ALMOST FAMOUS.

>> Braude: MY APOLOGIES.

IT WAS A LITTLE GIRL, NOT A BOY.

YOU SEEMED OVER JOYED.

WAS IT LIKE RIDING A BIKE, OR WAS IT DIFFICULT TO GET BACK INTO IT?

>> LET ME JUST SAY, MS. WHITMER, THE PRINCIPAL, SET ME UPGRADE WITH MR. HOLDEN'S CLASS.

HE HAD THE BEST SUB PLANS, MINUTE BY MINUTE FOR WHAT I NEEDED TO DO EACH DAY.

THERE WERE A COUPLE OF PARTNER TEACHERS THAT CAME IN AND SUPPORTED ME WITH SOME OF OUR SPECIAL STUDENTS.

IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY JOYFUL DAY.

THE STUDENTS WERE INCREDIBLY INCITE FULL ANDFUL AND EAGER TO LEARN.

IT HAS FUELED ME THROUGH THESE LAST SEVERAL DAYS.

IT WAS THE BEST DAY I'VE HAD IN OVER TWO YEARS.

>> Braude: THAT'S REALLY GREAT TO HEAR.

SPEAKING OF "BEST DAY," THIS MORNING I WAS LISTENING TO NATIONAL PUBLIC RADAR COMING RADIO COMING TO WORK, AND IT MAY NOT SURPRISE YOU, BUT THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL SUPERINTENDENTS ASSOCIATION -- I ALMOST CAN'T BELIEVE THIS -- ABOUT SOME SUPERINTENDENTS WITH WHOM HE ISN'T SPEAKING, WHO ARE SO STRESSED BY WHAT IS GOING ON, THEY LITERALLY TALKED TO HIM ABOUT TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE STRESS ON STUDENTS.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT THE STRESS ON TEACHERS.

I HAVEN'T TALKED AT ALL ABOUT THE STRESS ON PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

HOW INTENSE IS IT?

>> IT IS PRETTY INTENSE, AND IT IS VERY CHALLENGING, PARTICULARLY IN OTHER PARTS OF THE UNITED STATES WHERE SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS, SCHOOL COMMITTEE MEMBERS, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS HAVE BEEN THREATENED.

YOU KNOW, THERE HAS JUST BEEN THIS VITRIOL AND NASTINESS THAT HAS HAPPENED AMONG ADULTS.

I'M SO BLESSED HERE TO HAVE SUCH A SUPPORTIVE SCHOOL COMMITTEE, SUCH A SUPPORTIVE CITY, WHERE WE HAVEN'T HAD ALL OF THESE HUGE DEBATES.

CERTAINLY NOT EVERYONE HAS AGREED WITH ALL OF THE DECISIONS THAT I'VE MADE OR QUESTION OR OUR POLICY AROUND THE MITIGATION EFFORTS WE HAVE DONE, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD THE RANG CORRANCORTHAT OTHER CITIES HAVE.

BUT THE 12-HOUR DAYS, ONGOING, LACK OF VACATION FOR MANY OF US -- IT HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY CHALLENGING FOR OUR SUPERINTENDENTS AND FOR OUR SCHOOL PRINCIPALS AS WELL.

THEY'RE CARRYING A HUGE BURDEN AND BRUNT OF THIS.

IT HAS BEEN CHALLENGING ON EVERYBODY FROM EVERY SINGLE ASPECT.

AS I TALK WITH MY COLLEAGUES, MANY OF THEM ARE CHOOSING TO LEAVE.

>> Braude: I HOPE FOR YOUR SAKE AND ALL OF YOURS, THE STRESS IS LESS THAT YOU'VE BEEN UNDER.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL TALK TO THE FIRST-EVER CAMBODIAN-AMERICAN MAYOR IN THE COUNTRY, SOKHARY CHAU OF LOWELL.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

AND STAY TUNED NEXT FOR ANOTHER INSTALLMENT FROM THE GBH NEWS CURIOSITY DESK SERIES.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org >> HEY, FOLKS, EDWARD B. HERWICK III HERE FROM GBH'S CURIOSITY DESK, WHERE YOU ASK QUESTIONS AND I FIND ANSWERS.

TODAY WE ARE AT THE MASS AUDUBON BLUE HILLS RESERVATION.

WHY, YOU MAY ASK?

WELL, WE'RE GOING TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION FROM JOHN GOLDTHWAIT.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ABOUT BIRDS AND DO THEY HAVE A SENSE OF SMELL?

>> FOR ANSWERS, WE TURN TO MASS AUDUBON VETERAN NORMAN SMITH.

>> VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

AND IF YOU ASKED THIS QUESTION 25 OR 30 YEARS AGO, WE WOULD PROBABLY SAY NO, BIRDS PROBABLY DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF A SENSE OF SMELL AT ALL.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE THOUGHT WAS.

>> BUT WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY SINCE THE EARLY 1990s.

WE NOW KNOW THAT PLUTO IS NOT A PLANET.

WE KNOW THAT APPLE STOCK WAS A MUCH BETTER INVESTMENT THAN BEANIE BABIES, AND WE KNOW THAT YES, MOST BIRDS , IN FACT, PROBABLY ALL BIRDS, HAVE A SENSE OF SMELL.

WHY DID WE THINK THAT BIRDS DIDN'T HAVE A SENSE OF SMELL?

>> THEY DON'T SEEM TO HAVE MUCH OF AN OLFACTORY GLAND IN THEIR BRAIN, AND THE NASAL PASSAGES, FOR THE MOST PART, ARE VERY SMALL IN MOST BIRD SPECIES.

>> BUT BIRDS, OF COURSE, COME IN ALL SHAPES AND SIZES.

AND IT TURNS OUT THE SAME IS TRUE OF THOSE NASAL PASSAGES.

>> THIS IS THE SKULL OF A TURKEY VULTURE.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT TURKEY VULTURE THERE, YOU CAN SEE THE NASAL PASSAGES RIGHT HERE, AND YOU CAN SEE HOW LARGE THOSE ARE.

WHY DON'T YOU HOLD ONTO THAT?

THIS IS A BIRD OWL SKULL, AND LOOK AT THESE NASAL PASSAGES COMPARED TO THE SIZE OF THE VULTURE.

>> OH, YEAH.

THEY'RE TINY.

YEP.

>>> RESEARCHERS ALSO LEARNED THAT JUST LIKE THOSE NASAL PASSAGES, THE OLFACTORY BULB IN A BIRD'S BRAIN ISN'T ALWAYS SO SMALL.

AND THE SAME GOES FOR THE NUMBER OF SMELL-RELATED GENES EACH BIRD SPECIES HAS.

KIWIS, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE ABOUT 200 MORE OF THEM THAN HUMANS DO.

SO HOW WELL A BIRD CAN SMELL REALLY DEPENDS ON THE BIRD, AND SOME CAN SMELL PRETTY DARN WELL.

AS FOR HOW OUR FINE-FEATHERED FRIENDS ACTUALLY USE THEIR SENSE OF SMELL, THAT RANGES, TOO.

STUDIES ON LITTLE GROUND FORAGERS CALLED JUNCOS HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY USE IT TO MATE.

HOMING PIGEONS USE IT TO HELP THEM NAVIGATE, AND PETRELS AND A LOT OF VULTURES -- IT'S HOW THEY FIND FOOD.

AND SPEAKING OF VULTURES, YOU MIGHT HAVE GUESSED FROM THOSE HUGE NASAL CAVITIES THAT THEY ARE, INDEED, AMONG THE VERY BEST SMELLERS IN THE ENTIRE BIRD KINGDOM.

SO GOOD, IN FACT, THAT THEY GET PUT TO WORK, SO TO SPEAK, UP IN AMERICA'S 49th STATE.

>> SO WHEN I WAS IN ALASKA, WHAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING IS THE GUYS WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE HAVE A LEAK IN A NATURAL GAS PIPELINE, WE LOOK AND SEE IF THERE ARE ANY VULTURES CIRCLING AROUND THE PIPELINE BECAUSE THE VULTURES PICK UP THAT ODOR THAT THEY PUT IN THE NATURAL GAS, AND IT SMELLS VERY MUCH, THAT METHANE SMELLS LIKE DEAD ANIMALS.

>> NOW, STILL OTHER BIRDS, EVEN SOME REALLY COMMON ONES LIKE HUMMINGBIRDS, REMAIN SHROUDED IN MYSTERY.

>> DO HUMMINGBIRDS ACTUALLY USE A SENSE OF SMELL WHEN THEY'RE MIGRATING, OR DO THEY USE IT TO FIND FLOWERS?

I MEAN, FLOWERS GIVE OFF AN AROMA.

MAYBE HUMMINGBIRDS CAN HAVE SOME SORT OF A SENSE OF SMELL AND PICK UP THE AROMA FROM A FLOWER TO KEY IN ON WHERE THOSE FLOWERS ARE.

WE REALLY DON'T KNOW.

>> IN FACT, WHAT WE STILL DO NOT KNOW ABOUT BIRDS AND THEIR SENSE OF SMELL LIKELY FAR EXCEEDS WHAT WE ACTUALLY DO KNOW, AND THAT IS JUST FINE WITH NORMAN SMITH.

>> AND THAT'S THE EXCITING THING ABOUT RESEARCH, BECAUSE WE FIND NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A SCIENTIST TO DO RESEARCH.

>> WE COULD NOT AGREE MORE, NORMAN.

FINDING NEW THINGS IS WHAT WE ARE ALL ABOUT, AND WE CANNOT DO THAT WITHOUT YOU.

SO DON'T FORGOT TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE.

AND PERHAPS, MOST IMPORTANTLY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT, BECAUSE, HEY, I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDWARD B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org