AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Naw GEOFF BENNET On the "News to lower the pace of inflation and interest rates.

AMNA NAWAZ: A judge hears closing arguments in former President Dona civil fraud trial.

GEOFF BENNET genocide against the Palestinian people.

OONA HATHAWAY, Yale Law School: This is going fo r Israel, maybe even foreign assistance of various kinds to Israel, quite di (BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to th New data shows that inflation ran a little higher at the end of the year than expected, but slowed down significantly in 2023.

AMNA NAWAZ: And consumers are still hesitant to embrace the economy's strength, a theme that was consistent throughout last year's strong economic performance.

For more on how we can use these latest numbers to understand what might be ahead, and how consumers are viewing the economy, I spoke earlier today with Raphael Bostic, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.

Mr. Bostic, welcome to the "NewsHour."

Thank you for joining us.

RAPHAEL BOSTIC, President, Federal Reserve It's good to be here.

AMNA NAWAZ: So let's just start with your reaction Overall, consumer prices rose a little more than expected in December.

Core prices, excluding food and energy, also rose What do those numbers say to you?

RAPHAEL BOSTIC: Well, to But seeing some volatility in inflation is not really a surprise to me.

The economy has been very strong and robust over the last year, and that resilien really been a positive thing.

It's actually been stronger than I But that resilience also means that the pace of infla down to our target is going to be slower.

And so seeing some reports every now and then that are going in the other fo r the course.

And I'm expecting AMNA NAWAZ: Most of that inflation increase ca r insurance and also for housing.

Housing costs, in pa consumer prices.

We are in, a So is the only way to RAPHAEL BOSTIC: So, yes.

So, you noted that we have the sh Everywhere I go across the Sixth District, I And this is a supply issue as much as a demand issue.

So one part of affordability is having enough income.

But in many markets, Atlanta being one of them, the growth the growth in units.

And that's going to put up And so we need to see more supply.

AMNA NAWAZ: Now, the Fed has signaled that they Do you believe that rates should begin to be low RAPHAEL BOSTIC: Well, soon -- Lo ok, my expectation is that 20 24, which means that we won't be in a position to cut rates for quite some time.

My outlook has us showing rates starting to fall in the third quarter of this year.

But, again, we will have to see how inflation progresses in the next several months.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, three days ago in a speech, you did say that, as you mentioned, inflation has come down.

You have men When do you expect that target to be re Is there any way to predict that, given, as you said, it's not RAPHAEL BOSTIC: Well, we have models, and models will give us an answer.

My outside model on this says that we should get to 2 percent in our measure some time in 2025, but a lot's going to happen between now and then.

So I don't put too much stock in any of those longer-term issues.

And I just try to keep an eye on where things are going month to month and try to just have a clear understanding about where we stand.

If the economy comes in wi lling to pull forward, perhaps, my willingness to cut.

But we will just have to see how thin AMNA NAWAZ: I hear your note of caution.

I'm curious if you can tell us more about Is it domestically, turmoil around the elections?

Is it globally with more instability and two wars Where are you looking?

RAPHAEL BOST You called out two things.

The geopolitics and the global issues are a big prob We have seen just in the last several days the cost of shipping go up by a considerable amount because of turbulence in the Middle East.

In the Southeast, we have seen storms that have created histori disrupted economies in significant ways.

And there's still uncertainty about the progression of the virus.

As you know, we're seeing more people get sick and tragically die.

And so all of those things will come into play.

And depending on how they play out, that will have a real implication for of the economy.

AMNA NAWAZ: that consumer confidence -- and we have seen this over the last year -- has real behind the actual strength and recovery of the economy.

When you look at that, how do you explain that gap?

RAPHAEL BOSTIC: Well, for me, I think it really is abo have that prices are much higher than they were two years ago.

And their wages did not go up as much.

And so that realization, that recognition is really present in people' We all go to the grocery store on a regular basis.

Gas was much higher.

It's come down So that's no As we start to see more and more of goods get back to pricing that is clos it was before, or if our incomes go up more strongly, I think that that kind of negativity will likely dissipate, and we will start to see the numbers evolve.

But human psychology is not something that turns on a dime, and it would really take time and experience lived for those things to shift.

AMNA NAWAZ: And we did see, I should mention, Bu t, overall, there's been concern that it could become, that pessimism could become sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy and could potentially lead to a recession.

Do you still believe there could be a recession?

RAPHAEL BOSTIC: Well, there's always a probability of a recession this.

We spend a l And I have been really pleased to see that the American people, by and large, have confidence that inflation is going to get back to 2 percent and that the economy will be on its own and grow and be robust.

As long as we start to continue -- as long ev ery confidence that the economy will be fine, growth will happen, businesses will continue to hire and produce, and the quality of life in this country will continue AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that is the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, Raphael Bostic, joining us tonight.

Mr. Bostic, thank yo Appreciate it.

RAPHAEL BOST GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: Ir in the Gulf of Oman.

That ship had been involved in To day, armed Iranian sailors boarded the vessel Tehran called it compensation for an act of theft.

The U.S. condemned the move.

VEDANT PATEL, Prin vessel is just the latest behavior by Iran or enabled by Iran aimed commerce.

We in the Un concerning and destabilizing behaviors.

GEOFF BENNETT: Thi The president's son Hunter Biden pleaded not guilty today to federal tax charges in Los Angeles.

Prosecutors a lavish lifestyle.

Hunter Biden If convicted An Ohio woman will not face criminal charges over her miscarriage.

A grand jury refused to indict 34-year-old Brittany Watts today, who had been charged with abuse of a corpse after she miscarried into a toilet.

If convicted, Watts had faced Se nate Democrats moved today to avoid a partial government shutdown, but their prospects were unclear.

Majority Lea funding bill before a January 19 dea And he condemned House Republicans, SEN. CHUCK SCHUME shutdown would be a recipe for chaos.

The hard right is not serious Th e only tac to bend to the GEOFF BENNETT: House Speaker Mike Johnson he said he's made no commitment to renegotiate the spending deal.

In Central Africa, the Congo River has reached its highest levels in 60 years.

Local authorities say widespread flooding in the Democratic Republic of Congo and the neighboring Republic of Congo has caused more than 300 deaths.

People in the city of Kinshasa have been using makeshift rafts Experts blame the generational floods on poor urban planning and climate change.

Roman Catholic bishops across Africa rebuked Pope Fra bless same-sex couples.

The bishops the will of God and therefore cannot receive the blessing of the church."

Africa has the world's fastest growing Catholic population.

Back in this country, the United Negro College Fund has r Black colleges and universities.

Today's gift f since its founding 80 years ago.

It will go towards supporting And there was a major sh Bill Belichick stepped down as coach of the New England Patriots.

He won six Super Bowl titles over 24 seasons, but he had a losing record i since star quarterback Tom Brady moved on.

Today, though, to split was mutual.

BILL BELICHICK, Form winner, building a championship football team here.

And that succeeded, succeeded I will always be a Patriot.

I look forward to coming back here, GEOFF BENNETT: Belichick has the second most wins ever as an NFL coach.

He's widely expected to end up with another team.

And on Wall Street, stocks barely budged.

The Dow Jones industrial average gain The Nasdaq rose half-a-point.

The S&P 500 Still to com Iowa votes; and we tak Epstein's sex trafficking ring.

AMNA NAWAZ: Toda ballistic missile into international shipping lanes in the Gulf of Aden.

There were no injuries or damage, but the U.S. says it was the 27th Houthi the last six weeks.

To talk about this more, I'm Nick, it's good to see you.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thanks, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: What are U.S. officials consider NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S. military has presented the White Ho according to military and defense officials I have spoken to.

They won't, of course, confirm the exact details, but independ are likely to focus on the weapons that the Houthis are using to strike, so th drones and missiles.

So what we're ta those missiles and drones.

Former military of is good enough that could target those drones and missiles and really degrade Houthi military capabilities.

Current seni capabilities, but they're concerned that a single strike or a single round of strikes would not successfully deter the Houthis from continuing to launch these strikes, which means that any initial round of strikes would likely just be the beginning and lead to a tit for tat.

And, of course, we And that, frankly, is exactly what the Houthis are warning.

Today, we heard from Abdul-Malik al-Houthi, who said that any military strike would lead to Houthi attacks that are bigger than the one we saw earlier this week, the biggest yet, more than two dozen drones and missiles right at a U.S. warship.

AMNA NAWAZ: Nick, as we said earlier, this has been going on for weeks.

Tell us about the context.

How did we get here?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, 27 attacks Th ey began with the brazen seizing of a ship, the Galaxy Lea And you can see some of the photos from there.

This was an incident in which they took two dozen crew or Houthis actually landed on the deck of the ship by helicopter.

Look, this is where 15 percent of all world shipping goes through.

And so, in response, the U.S. created a maritime coalition that's designed to Bu t a lot of the commercial ships have had to avoid the area entirely, go all the way around.

And, obvious from continuing their attacks.

Between December 1 drones.

And that is wh of military response.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, of course, the Th ere's also the devastating humanitarian situation in Yemen.

What should we know about that?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, Yemen is a country need assistance.

Tens of thousands are under fa Six million are near famine-like conditions.

Amna, as you know, Yemen has been at war for nearly a decade.

It remains one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world.

Ironically, there's a lot of political progress between the Houthis and the internationally recognized government backed by Saudi Arabia.

That political process either could be imperiled by a military strike or some, especially in Saudi Arabia, hope that it will actually give them leverage over the Houthis.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right.

Nick Schifrin, thank you very much.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: With just four days until the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses, the Republican presidential field continues to shrink and the remaining candidates are making their closing arguments.

Lisa Desjardins reports on the ca NIKKI HALEY (R), Presidential Candidate: We have cam GOV.

RON DESANTIS Us Floridians usually LISA DESJARDINS: The GOP hopefuls on a last campaign sprint NIKKI HALEY: So, on the 15th, on Monday, it's going to be so cold.

(LAUGHTER) NIKKI HALEY: (LAUGHTER) LISA DESJARD GOV.

RON DESANTIS And it's pretty nice.

And I left t to get that winter coat up.

LISA DESJARDINS: Florida met face-to-face last night.

NIKKI HALEY: Bless his heart.

DeSantislies.com.

LISA DESJARD GOV.

RON DESANTIS you want to hear.

LISA DESJARDINS: The argue about who is the alternative to the party's front-runner, Donald Trump.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS Stop making excuses.

Make it happ (CHEERING AND AP NIKKI HALEY: If leader million in your campaign and you were down in the polls?

You are not a manager.

(CROSSTALK) GOV.

RON DESANTIS I think this (CROSSTALK) NIKKI HALEY: LISA DESJARD against Russia.

NIKKI HALEY: This is about preventing war.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS the United Nations out of the ambassador.

(CHEERING AND APPLAU LISA DESJARD GOV.

RON DESANTIS in jail, that's a trope.

That's using the language of th So I think that that is wrong.

NIKKI HALEY: These fellows I have said over and over again the Democrats put have used judgment.

This is too LISA DESJARDINS: Both candidates mostly pulled their punches on Trump, sidestepping que about whether he has the character to be president.

But Haley gave her most pointed criticism yet 2020 election.

NIKKI HALEY: Biden won that election.

I think what happened on An d I think President Trump will have to answer fo LISA DESJARDINS: DeSantis pivoted, not questioni GOV.

RON DESANTIS criminal trials.

The Democrats FMR.

GOV.

CHRIS CHRIST Good evening Thank you al LISA DESJARD GOP critic, former New Jersey Governor Chris ended his presidential campaign.

FMR.

GOV.

CHRIS CHRIST be president of the United States again.

And that's more important than my own personal ambition.

(APPLAUSE) LISA DESJARD departure.

But in a fra that neither DeSantis... FMR.

GOV.

CHRIS CHRIST LISA DESJARD FMR.

GOV.

CHRIS CHRIST She's not up LISA DESJARD in his own category.

BRET BAIER, FOX Ne Good evening.

LISA DESJARD on FOX News, answering question from voters and walking back some recent comments that have drawn criticism.

DONALD TRUMP I am not goi I'm not goin LISA DESJARDINS: He once a three justices to the Supreme Court.

DONALD TRUMP: I'm proud to have LI SA DESJARDINS: While saying heartbeat bans, like the one signed by DeSantis in Florida.

DONALD TRUMP: If you talk five or six weeks, a lot of women don't know th in five or six weeks.

I want to get something where We still have to win elections, and Republicans and they're great on the issue.

And you would love them on the issue.

And a lot of them have just been decimated in the election, d LISA DESJARDINS: As the field narrows, the remaining candidates have just a few short days to convince any undecided Iowans.

And after last night's fiery debate, they will battle subzero temp to get their supporters to show up on a frigid Monday night.

GEOFF BENNETT: And Lisa joins us now from Iowa.

Lisa, it's good to see you.

I know you have What's your sense of where this race is and if Chris Christie's exit from had any impact?

LISA DESJARDINS: I could have an impact, perhaps on Nikki Haley, which is what we expected, but not here in Iowa.

Chris Christie So there's a lot of consideration about what would he does have significant numbers.

And speaking to an official from the Trump th at Christie is a big help for Haley.

And here's how they put it.

They say Chris Christi in New Hampshire anyway.

Of course, it's in their interest t departure.

Clearly, it she get into second place, but that she can compete with President Trump, former President Trump, and his lead.

Now, as for things Speaking to a couple of campaign officials here, from their internal polling, it matches what we saw today in a Suffolk poll that shows Nikki Haley in second place and by more than the margin of error.

Now, at the He has a slew of events.

His supporters think he can make u They think they will get their people out here on Monday night better than anyone.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Lisa, looking at the snowcapped roofs behind you, I'm reminded th is expected to be the coldest Iowa caucus ever.

Are the campaigns worried about whether that will affect turnout?

LISA DESJARDINS: There is a concern about that.

It will be a test of enthusiasm for every Ri ght now, as I speak to you, it is a balmy 24 degrees and going down.

And this will by far be the warmest day that we have from here until Monday.

There also will be a snowfall all day tomorrow.

These folks in Iowa, of course, they know what to do with th The idea is that the snow will be cleared from parking lots.

Voters will be able to attend the caucuses.

But campaigns are making some kind of -- using some resou in difficult places, they can get their voters there.

It will be a test of the campaigns' enthusiasm th is process, as the nation again looks at Iowa to decide if it should continue to have this role for the Republican Party.

GEOFF BENNETT: That's Lisa Desjardins reporting Lisa, thanks so much.

AMNA NAWAZ: One of former President Trump's trials came to an end in New York City today.

A judge will now determine whether the former president committed fraud by inflating the value of his real estate assets.

Mr. Trump and his attorneys argue the case is no evidence of wrongdoing.

William Brangham was in the courtroom today, So, William, this is a trial that began last October, fair to say a fairly contentious one.

There have b But, today, today was about closing arguments from each side.

Mr. Trump, as I understand, ended up doing his own version of closing argument What happened?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: closing argument, but he managed to do so anyway.

His lawyer basically opened the door, and the former president just it and said, as you were just describing, that he's completely innocent, that these charges are trumped-up, that they are bogus, that this is a political witch-hunt against him.

He also said stop him from advancing politically.

And the thing that was so striking about this is that we think of cour how adversarial they get, that there's a deference and a respect for the judge.

And here was the former president directly attacking the judge to his face, saying that he had an agenda of his own, that he couldn't listen to anything for longer than a minute.

And, remember, this is the judge, not a jury, who will decide the president's fate in this case, just an incredibly striking moment to see today.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is incredible to see.

Remind us, William, about the central WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

The case has been brought by New York Attorne the former president and his associates at the Trump Organization engaged in a decades-long pattern of inflating the assets of various real estate properties and programs that they were running here in the city, and that they were doing so, so that banks would look at those assets, see those inflated values, and give them bigger loans and better rates than they would have.

The attorney general gains" netted the Trump Organization about $250 million, and that he needs to be punished for that.

AMNA NAWAZ: What have they argued in response?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: They have argued a The attorney general had given multiple examples.

Like, for instance, it was a Trump Park Ave they weren't rent-stabilized, and that they then inflated the value by tens of millions of dollars, that there was a Trump Tower triplex apartment that they valued -- said was 30,000 square feet, when it was only 11,000 square feet.

The Trump team said that those -- some of those things were basically mistakes, th they had no meaningful impact.

They were arguing that, remember, Donald Trump was a Banks were tripping over themselves to loan money to him, so that the idea that he would need to make inflated statements to get better loans, they argued, just doesn't make sense on its face.

They say, as They argued the same thing that the former president did, that this was a political campaign by the attorney general masquerading as a legal case.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, William, what happens next?

When should we expect a ruling?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So the judge has by the end of this month.

The important thing to remember is, he has already He has said that Trump and his sons and some of their associates are liable for fraud.

He now has to decide on the penalties for that.

Not only is the attorney general asking that Trump and his banned from doing real estate business in New York, but she's also trying to levy $370 million fine, both of which would be colossal blows for the Trump Organization.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that is William Brangham reporting for us live tonight from New York.

William, thank you.

Good to see AMNA NAWAZ: The International Court of Justice in The Hague heard arguments from South Africa today accusing Israel of committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

It's a rare case and could drag on for years.

But, as Nick Schifrin reports, South Africa is req could have far-ranging implications for Israel and the United States.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In the depths of Gaza's despair, South Africa accuses Israel of what's been called the crime of crimes.

ADILA HASSIM, South African Lawyer: Th which genocide can be inferred.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today, South Africa ask to stop the war and what it called decades of discrimination.

VUSIMUZI MADONSELA, South African Ambassador to the Netherl Israel's genocidal acts and omissions with WOMAN: The Draft Convention on Genocide is being presented to the General Assembly today.

NICK SCHIFRIN: It was 75 years ago last month that the U.N. adopted the Genocide Convention, the first human rights treaty.

It was born out of the Nazis' Final lead to the birth of the state of Israel.

The convention defines genocide as "acts c a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group," and cites as examples killing, injuring, inflicting conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction, preventing births, or transferring children.

TEMBEKA NGCUKAIT Palestinians in Gaza.

That is evident from the way in which Israel's military attack is displacement of the population of Gaza herded into areas where they continue to be killed, and the deliberate creation of conditions that could lead to a slow death.

NICK SCHIFRIN: South Africa also accuses Israel of declaring its own genocidal intent.

ISAAC HERZOG, Israeli President: This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it's absolutely not true.

And we will fight until we break thei YOAV GALLANT, Israeli Defense Minister (through translator): We are on Gaza, no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel.

Everything is closed.

We are fighting human animal ISAAC HERZOG: There is nothing more atrocious and preposte NICK SCHIFRIN: Israel dismisses the lawsuit as a blood libel.

Israel argues it's Hamas that started the current round of violence on October the 7th, and it's Hamas charter that vows to -- quote -- "obliterate Israel" on behalf of Islam.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, Israeli Prime Minister (through translator): The state of Israel is accused of genocide at a time when it is fighting genocide.

A terrorist organization carried out the worst crime against the Jewish people Ho locaust, and now someone comes to defend it in the name of the Holocaust.

What brazen gall.

The world is upside do NICK SCHIFRIN: This week, ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: The charge of genocide is meritless.

OONA HATHAWAY, Yale Law School: Every st the duty and the obligation and the right to raise concerns when they think that that convention is being violated.

NICK SCHIFRIN: She says the court only has to rule South Africa has shown reasonable probability of genocide to impose orders on Israel that could affect the U.S. OONA HATHAWAY: The U.S., as a member of the Genocide Convention itself, its own legal obligations will kick in, and it is prohibited from aiding and assisting in genocide.

But it's also actually positively obligated to act to prevent genocide.

And so this is going to make continuing military support, certainly for Israel, maybe even foreign assistance of various kinds to Israel, quite difficult.

NELSON MANDELA, Former South African Presid ourselves, they are fighting for the right of self-determination.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) NICK SCHIFRIN: South A Former President Nelson Mandela was close to Palestine Liberation Organization founder Yasser Arafat.

Before that, Israel supported and apartheid government.

In 1999 in the Wes NELSON MANDELA: If the only alternative is violence, we will use violence.

NICK SCHIFRIN: So, how strong is South Africa's case against Israel, and what will be Israel's defense when tomorrow it presents its case?

We get two views.

First to Kenneth Roth, the pr ofessor at Princeton University and senior fellow at Harvard University.

Ken Roth, thanks very much.

Welcome back How strong a case do to destroy all or part of a racial, religious or ethnic group, in this case, the Palestinians?

KENNETH ROTH, Former Executive Director, Human Rights Watch: South Africa assembled an incredibly talented legal team and put together a factually detailed, legally compelli I think there's not much question that the level of killing, the level of deprivation is sufficient to meet that predicate part of the crime of genocide.

The South African case really had two elements to it in showing genocide intent.

One is, they ran through a bunch of statements by senior Israeli officials.

They looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu's reference to Amalek, an Israeli enemy where the biblical injunction was to kill every man, woman, child and animal.

They used Yoav Gallant, the defense minister's statement that he's going after -- that they're fighting human animals.

He says, oh, the siege, which is of everybody in Gaz So they ran through statements like that.

They had a very moving section where they had a bunch of Israeli soldiers si dancing and saying, there are no uninvolved civilians, basically an invitation to war crimes.

So this is a And then the Israel is bombing so indiscriminately, because it's using these massive 2,000-pound bombs in heavily populated areas, that this also shows an indifference to Palestinian civilian life, which itself is indicative of genocidal intent.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Israel says that many of the statements that are cited are about Hamas, not about Gaza.

The official war policy, of course, is to respond to Hamas and prevent it an other terrorist attack.

But they also say that many other statements by the same Israeli officials saying that they are trying to av civilian casualties.

And, again, KENNETH ROTH: Yes, I mean, they say that's the official policy.

But when you have the prime minister talking about an everybody, when you have the defense minister saying they're all human animals, not talking about Hamas, this is -- this is policy.

I mean, these are the top people.

And if you look at the actions of the Isr harm to civilians or the siege, this devastating siege that is causing such severe deprivation to so many Palestinians, that has seen a spreading starvation across Gaza, it's hard to say that this isn't policy.

So, I think that tha I don't think it's going to work as an argument in court.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Israel, at the same time as what you hav leaflets from the sky urging Palestinians to flee, what the IDF calls safer areas, uses text messages, calls to warn Gazans of strikes about to come.

It's created humanitarian zones and corridors in Gaza.

Does any of that suggest that Israel's intentions, again, are less KENNETH ROTH: Yes, I think that those are going to be the more sophisticated defenses that Israel mounts tomorrow.

And we have heard sp committed atrocities.

But as Israe by the other.

Nothing just Now, with respect to the giving warnings in an inhumane way.

They're sending people to the south, and, as South A to drop 2,000-pound bombs in the south.

They are depriving the people in that area Th ey're letting in just drips and drabs of humanitarian aid.

The warnings, again, look almost as if they're public relations They're not really humane efforts.

The bigger defense, I think, is going to be this mantra of all the time.

And, yes, Ha Yes, Hamas fights from civilian areas, and targeting a military target, to not fire if there will be disproportionat harm, regardless of human shields.

NICK SCHIFRI law of armed conflict, Israel has the right to self-defense, nor, as you just mention does it really acknowledge how Hamas fights embedded within civilian areas.

Are those weaknesses in South Africa's case?

KENNETH ROTH: Well, South Africa October 7, as they should, as everybody does.

Israel has the right to defend itself, but the point is, it has to defe within the Geneva Conventions, targeting Hamas, not targeting the civilian population, certainly not committing genocide.

And this depriva little water, the hospitals shut down, this seems to be designed to impose conditions of hardship that, as South Africa says, could lead to massive loss of life, to even more loss of life than the bombing directly.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And, finally, if the co probability of genocide and imposes what are called provisional measures, how important is that?

What's going KENNETH ROTH has no direct means of enforcement, it has to look to the Security Council, and the U.S. could use its veto to stop any coercive measures against Israel, nonetheless, for Israel, a state that was founded because of genocide, because of the Holocaust, to be found to probably be committing genocide would be a huge stigma and would put real pressure on Netanyahu finally to stop the killing.

It would put pressure It would, I think, make an enormous contribution to saving Palestinian civilian lives.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Kenneth Roth, longtime head of Human Rights Watch, thank you very much.

KENNETH ROTH: Thank you.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And now we get a law at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

He's written extensively about international U.N. Human Rights Committee.

Yuval Shany, thank you very much Welcome to the "NewsHour Do you think YUVAL SHANY, Hebrew University of Jerusalem: No, I think South Africa did work quite effectively on introducing some circumstantial evidence for its claim.

It did point to a lot of harm, a lot of suffering, a lot of damage inflicted on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

And it also was -- i that were given by Israeli officials.

There are still many, many holes in the narrative that they ar NICK SCHIFRIN: So let's talk about some of those statements.

Ken Roth and the South African cited th When Prime Minister Netanyahu cites a biblical an d vows Israel should achieve the same aim in Gaza, does that not show intent to destroy at least part of Palestinians in Gaza?

YUVAL SHANY: I think these are very ambiguous statements.

I mean, I wouldn't say -- I wouldn't defend this statement.

I think -- I wish they wouldn't have been uttered.

I think they were playing to a politi But in the Israeli context, calling an enemy like Iran or like th Amalek is something that is done all the time.

And this is -- in the Israeli context, this is what you And you use a biblical reference in order to beef it up and make it sound a little bit more flashy to your home base.

Actually, in the first statement that Netanyahu issu application, he also emphasized that the IDF, unlike Hamas, is observing the laws of war and that it is not harming civilians.

So I think it's quite a stretch to build the is a genocidal plan, an actual plan of action, on the basis of an imprudent statement that was made by a politician.

In the end, the Israeli Cabinet decisions and specific directives.

It doesn't listen to what a politician say and then goes and changes its Th is is not how things work.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Staying YUVAL SHANY: Every s This is simply -- the insinuation that the statement by a minister would then lead the chief of staff to change the operational plan simply has limited bearing to reality.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Staying on statements for a minute, the convention also requires Israel to prevent and not incite genocide.

Has Israel punished some of perhaps the lower-level officials when they suggest the op eration are to destroy not just Hamas, but all of Gaza?

YUVAL SHANY: Well, here, I think the South Africans do have a point I think, so far, Israel has not been diligent in taking steps against public figures who have made some outrageous statements that seem to violate international law.

I would note that the attorney general this week has issued a statement that she will actually prosecute, consider prosecuting individuals who have incited to harm uninvolved civilians.

But one could say that this is a little bit late in the game.

So, by and large, I would say that Israel has not handled this aspect of the wa well.

And there ha But there is a huge distance between not dealing sufficiently tough, not cracking down on hate speech and on incitement, and actually attributing those statements to the actual conduct of the IDF on the field, which, like you said before, the IDF operation is a war, which is a very difficult and very tough urban warfare with an enemy that is completely embedded within and below the civilian population, and actually trying to -- this is something, by the way, the South African team completely left out from its narrative.

So, according to the presentations we have heard today, there was a tragedy, a massacre in October 7, and then nothing.

Then Hamas disappears from the It 's only the Israelis who are dropping bombs.

The story is much more complex.

And the statements are background noise, which is ind some level, even dangerous, but it is not really the driving force of the story.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And, finally, as I asked Ken Roth at the end, what do you believe the impact would be?

How importan on Israel, whether that's about aid or about the conduct of the war itself?

YUVAL SHANY: I think the case, as presented by South Africa, doesn't have a lot of chance to actually prevail on the merits, but they may cross the threshold of plausibility, which is sufficient for the court to issue provisional measures.

And this is, of course, something that the government of Israel is concerned about an should be concerned about.

And we will have to see what In a previous genocide allegation case involving Myanmar, the court issued relatively generic remedies, calling on the states not to commit a genocide and to preserve evidence regarding genocide.

However, in which, of course, has not happened as of yet.

So we have to see what sort of remedies, what sort of measures would NICK SCHIFRIN: Yuval Shany, thank you very much.

YUVAL SHANY: Thank you very much.

GEOFF BENNETT: Thousands of pages of court documents tied to the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein have been made public as part of a settled lawsuit involving one of his victims.

The records detail Epste the names of 150 people who were in contact with him.

The magnitude of his sex trafficking operation was first brought to light by Miami Herald investigative reporter Julie K. Brown, who joins us now.

She is author of the book "Perversion of Justice: The Jeffrey Epstein Story."

Thank you for being with us, Julie.

And, as we mentioned, hundreds of doc which are part of this defamation lawsuit filed by Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre.

And there are names of previously associated people, people associated with Epstein, such as Prince Andrew, former Presidents Donald Trump, Bill Clinton.

They're mentioned in these court documents.

But there's little new information outsid What should we make of what's been released?

JULIE K. BROWN, The Mi We first sued for these records over five years ago.

And they have been released on a rolling basis.

And I think you have to look at the totality, total picture operation.

And that's w In the beginning, when we first starte than the fact that he had abused a lot of young girls in Palm Beach.

Now, as a result of all these records being released, we know that his operatio far beyond Palm Beach, in fact, was an international sex trafficking operation.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, to your point, the documents certainly confirm the scale, the magnitude of his sex trafficking ring and his powerful social network.

How do the documents add new insights, more dimension to the reporting that you have been doing for years?

JULIE K. BRO We know that this is an operation that he could not have run all by himself.

And, as of right now, we only have one person paying the price for this crime.

We know that there were other people.

Although these documents don't implicate anyone direct identified as having sex with some of these girls.

It certainly warrants more investigation by the federal authorities.

GEOFF BENNETT: You spoke recently with two of Epstein's victims, who said that anyone who would have visited any of his homes would certainly have been aware of his depravity.

Tell me more about that and why that's significant.

JULIE K. BROWN: It's significant because these Th ey know that this is a crime that a lot of people were involved in.

And, for them, just having one person arrested isn't enough.

They want the truth.

They want the other pe I mean, he had pilots.

He had assistants.

He had businesspeople who were helpin And so the question for them is, why haven't some of those people been looked at or at least been asked to provide more information about his operation?

GEOFF BENNETT: I want to ask you about something else, in that a federal judge denied the mot by The Miami Herald to make public a master list of Epstein's so-called J.

Does -- these are people who have been connected to him -- the names of those folks, accept the victims.

What's the value in making those names public when the accusations in the documents are salacious, yet largely unproven?

JULIE K. BROWN: Well, we still Th e documents that we received still have redactions in them.

For example, there is a deposition by one of the victims where she said she had -- was forced to have sex with two high-profile politicians.

And one of the politicians' name is completely redacted.

We don't know why the judge is still redacting that particular Doe, because we don' who that Doe is.

So providing the list would anonymity.

GEOFF BENNET JULIE K. BROWN: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Joya Powell is an award-winning choreographer, activist, and educator whose work focuses on community and the African diaspora.

She is the founder of Movement of the People Dance Company, a group that addresses injustices through dance.

In collaboration with New York City's Lincoln left of spring.

Tonight, she shares her Brief JOYA POWELL, Founder, Movement of the People Dance Company: For me, dance is activism.

Dance itself is what gets us through the world.

It's how we understand the world around us.

And within that, dance itself is the resistance To day, my company, Movement of the People Dance Company, will be performing an excerpt of a work in progress piece called "What's Left of Spring."

"What's Left of Spring" is an interactive piece that is Afrofuturistic, that looks at Africanist art and dance, that tries to ask questions about where we are today, thinking about our sociopolitical culture and the issues that we're facing.

WOMAN: Sitting here in the atrium of Lincoln Center, 61 West 62nd Street, or so they think.

They congregate here to be entertained.

JOYA POWELL: Some of the themes that w WOMAN: I said it's COVID in the house.

Let me hear you say.

Like you mean it, come on.

JOYA POWELL: Systemic racism.

WOMAN: I can't bre I can't breathe.

I can't breathe.

I can't breathe.

I can't breathe.

JOYA POWELL: We also l in this world together.

And we also look at global WOMAN: Welcome to mahogany's battle of the natural disasters.

Give it up.

JOYA POWELL: For m the thought of social movements and thinking about the fact that social movements has the word movement of it.

So we're looking at Where does the body live in creati We feel that there's a dialogue between ourselves and our and our communities in order to try to figure out how to be in this world together.

WOMAN: And so they continue their journey, and collectively figure out that the way back to the future is through hope and joy.

JOYA POWELL: My name is Joya Powell, and this is m as activism.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNET Thanks for joini