♪ ♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> THE U.S. AND THE UK STRIKE HOUTHIS IN YEMEN.

COULD IT SPARKED A LARGER CONFLICT?

I ASKED RETIRED COLONEL PETER MANSOOR.

>>> AND ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF AGAINST GENOCIDE AT THE U.N.'S HIGHEST COURT.

POLITICAL SCIENTIST DAHLIA JOINING ME.

>>> THEN, ON THE BRAKE OF FAMINE.

WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME CINDY MCCAIN TELLS US GAZA IS STARVING.

>>> JOURNALISTS IN THE CROSSHAIRS.

WE WILL VISIT CHRISTIANE'S CONVERSATION WITH REPORTERS LINDSEY HILSUM AND AN ACTRESS WHO PLAYED THE LEGENDARY WAR CORRESPONDENT MARY KOGAN IN THE FILM, PRIVATE WAR.

>>> PLUS, A BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION FOR ONE OF THE WORLD'S TOP COMPOSERS, SIR CARL JENKINS JOINS THE SHOW FROM CARNEGIE HALL.

♪ ♪ >>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THAT FAMILY, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CAN THIS THING WE ARE, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK JAY BLUSHING ARE, SETON J MELVYN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, PATRICIA EWEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BUY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I AM BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

>>> DRAMATIC MOVES IN THE DARK OF THE NIGHT AS THE U.S. AND UK STRIKE HOUTHI TARGETS IN YEMEN.

WASHINGTON WARNED THAT THIS COULD BE COMING AFTER THE IRANIAN-BACKED HOUTHIS CONTINUE TO ATTACK COMMERCIAL VESSELS IN THE RED SEA.

THE HOUTHIS WHO RUN MOST OF WESTERN YEMEN, INCLUDING THE COASTLINE, SAY THEY ARE DOING IT IN SUPPORT OF THE PALESTINIANS.

BUT THE AMERICANS SAY THE HOUTHIS ARE TARGETING SHIPS INDISCRIMINATELY AND DISRUPTING A VITAL WATERWAY FOR THE GLOBAL ECONOMY.

MASSIVE PROTESTS BROKE OUT IN YEMEN'S CAPITAL OF SANTA, AND THE HOUTHI LEADERS SAY THAT THE STRIKES, QUOTE, WILL NOT GO UNANSWERED.

THE COMPLICATED GEOPOLITICAL WEB AND THE RISK OF A WIDER WAR KEEPS RISING.

RETIRED COLONEL PETER MANSOOR IS A PROFESSOR OF MILITARY HISTORY AT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY, AND HE JOINS ME FROM COLUMBUS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM.

AS NOTED, THESE STRIKES WERE TO BE ANTICIPATED BY THE HOUTHIS.

AND TOGETHER WITH THE UK AND OTHERS IN THE ALLIANCE, MORE THAN 60 TARGETS, HIT OVERNIGHT, SPREAD OVER 60 LOCATIONS, THIS INCLUDES HOUTHI AIR BASES, MUNITION DEPOTS, LAUNCHING SITES, RADAR HELPING GUIDE SOME OF THESE MISSILES.

IN TOTALITY, AND WHAT WE NOW KNOW FOLLOWING THESE ATTACKS, HOW EFFECTIVE DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE BEEN IN PREVENTING FURTHER TYPES OF ATTACKS BY THE HOUTHIS?

>> WELL, THE ATTACKS WON'T PREVENT FURTHER ATTACKS.

IN FACT, IT'S A CERTAINTY THAT THE HOUTHIS WILL RESPOND HAVING BEEN ATTACKED ON THE SOIL.

BUT THE PURPOSE OF THESE ATTACKS IS TO DEGRADE THEIR CAPABILITIES, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF MISSILES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, REDUCE THEIR ABILITY TO TARGET VESSELS TRANSITING THE STRAIT.

AND SO, WE WILL SEE HOW EFFECTIVE THESE ATTACKS WILL HAVE BEEN.

BUT MY GUESS IS THAT THEY WILL NEED TO BE REPEATED IN THE FUTURE TO REALLY PUT A DENT IN THAT HOUTHI CAPABILITIES.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID THAT HE WOULD INDEED DO JUST THAT IF THESE ATTACKS CONTINUED.

I MEAN, HOW MUCH OF THIS TOWARDS AT, BACK AND FORTH DO YOU THINK WE CAN ANTICIPATE WITHOUT CONCERNS, OF COURSE, GROWING OF A LARGER REGIONAL CONFLICT, PERHAPS NOT JUST INVOLVING THE U.S. AND ALLIES WITH THE HOUTHIS, BUT PERHAPS THE SPONSORS EVEN, IRAN?

>> IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

IT REMINDS ME OF THE TANKER WAR IN THE GULF IN THE 19 80S WHICH LASTED FOR MONTHS.

AND SO, THIS IS NOT GONNA BE A ONE-OFF EVENT.

THE REAL DANGER HERE IS IF IRAN MUST CALCULATES.

IRANIAN NAVY HAS APPREHENDED ONE OIL TANKER IN THE GULF.

THEY NOW HAVE FIVE SUCH VESSELS IN CAPTIVITY.

AND IF THEY OVERREACH, AND THERE IS A WAR THAT BRINGS IRAN INTO THE CONFLICT, THEN YOU HAVE A MAJOR CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> THEY'RE NOT VERY SUBTLE ABOUT THEIR MISSION, THE HOUTHIS.

I MEAN, THEIR SLOGAN READS, DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO ISRAEL, A CURSE UPON THE JHEWS.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, THEY SAY THEY'RE DOING THIS IN SUPPORT OF THE PALESTINIANS.

BUT TO, GIVEN THEIR ALLEGIANCE AND RELIANCE UPON IRAN WHO SUPPLIES THEM WITH WEAPONS AND MILITARY, INTELLIGENCE, HOW FAR DO YOU THINK IRAN IS WILLING TO GO WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROXY, BECAUSE UP UNTIL NOW, WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED MOST EXCLUSIVELY ON HEZBOLLAH, AND HOW MUCH THEY WILL USE THAT BROKE THE IN SOUTHERN LEBANON?

>> WELL, IRAN IS A VERY CALCULATED IN HOW IT USES ITS PROXY FORCES, THE SO-CALLED ACTORS OF RESISTANCE AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST.

IT'S ATTACKED U.S.

FORCES AND IRAQ USING IRAQI MILITIA GROUPS.

HEZBOLLAH'S ATTACK IN NORTHERN ISRAEL WITH ROCKETS.

OF COURSE, HAMAS IS TIED UP WITH A MAJOR CONFLICT IN GAZA.

NOW, THE HOUTHIS ARE TRYING TO INTERDICT INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING IN THE RED SEA, VERY INDISCRIMINATE, THOUGH.

THESE SHIPS AREN'T TARGETED AT ISRAEL.

THEY'RE NOT OWNED BY ISRAEL.

ALL THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS INTERRUPT WORLD COMMERCE IN ORDER TO GAIN ATTENTION ON THE CONFLICT.

AND THEY HAVE DONE THAT PRETTY WELL.

>> YES, CONTAINER TRAFFIC IN THE RED SEA, WE SHOULD NOTE, HAS DROPPED NEARLY 100%.

THERE IS NO CONTAINER TRAFFIC TO BE SAID OF SINCE THIS WAR BEGAN AND SINCE THE HOUTHIS STARTED ATTACKING THESE SHIPS.

ONLY 50% OF GLOBAL TRADE PASSES THROUGH THE RED SEA.

IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE WHY THIS IS VIEWED THROUGH THE LENS OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY AND NOT JUST REGIONAL PROBLEM.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHY THE HOUTHIS HAVE GROWN FROM SUCH A NUISANCE IN THE REGION?

BECAUSE THERE IS A HISTORY THERE, A MULTI YEAR WAR WITH THE SAUDIS, MUCH RICHER COUNTRY, A LARGER COUNTRY WITH A LARGER MILITARY, THAT HAD TO SETTLE REALLY ON A TRUCE AFTER YEARS OF WAR WITH THE HOUTHIS.

AND THE MILITIA OF JUST ROUGHLY ABOUT 100,000 SOLDIERS.

WHY ARE THEY AS STRONG AS THEY ARE?

>> WELL, THE ANSWER IS PRETTY CLEAR.

THEY HAVE IRANIAN BACKING.

IRAN HAS SUPPLIED THEM WITH ALL OF THEIR HIGH TECH WEAPONRY.

THE MISSILES THAT THEY USE, THE DRONES, THE RADAR SYSTEMS.

THESE ARE NOT PRODUCED IN YEMEN.

THEY COME IN FROM OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY AND THEY ARE PURCHASED AND PROVIDED BY IRAN.

SO, THIS IS IRAN ATTEMPTING TO SPREAD ITS TENTACLES AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST AND MAKE THE MIDDLE EAST IRANIAN TERRITORY, IN ESSENCE.

AND BY FORCING INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING AWAY FROM THE RED SEA, THEY HAVE PUT THE WORLD ON NOTICE THAT THEY ARE THE GREAT POWER IN THE REGION.

YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH THEM IF YOU WANT TO GET ANYWHERE.

>> IT'S INTERESTING, A FEW WEEKS AGO, I INTERVIEWED AN EXPERT WHO HAD DESCRIBED THE HOUTHIS AS BASICALLY FIGHTING FROG.

EVEN IF YOU SEND IN THE NAVY TO BATTLE THEM, THEY ARE HARD TO DEFEAT.

THEY ARE HARD TO DETER.

THEY ACT AS A MILITIA.

AND GIVEN THAT, THE HOUTHIS SUPREME POLITICAL COUNCIL JUST SAID IN RESPONSE TO THESE STRIKES, QUOTE, THE U.S. AND UK INTERESTS ARE LEGITIMATE TARGETS.

HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT THIS KIND OF RHETORIC?

IS IT BLUSTER?

OR DO YOU THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE U.S. AND THE UK SHOULD TAKE SERIOUSLY?

>> OH, WE SHOULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

THE HOUTHIS DON'T HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF ATTACKING OUTSIDE THE REGION.

SO, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY'RE GONNA BE FOMENTING A TERRORIST CAMPAIGN ON BRITISH OR AMERICAN SOIL.

BUT THEY CERTAINLY WILL ATTACK OUR INTERESTS IN THE REGION WITHIN THEIR CAPABILITIES.

AND AS A RESULT, I SUSPECT THIS -FOR-TAT IS GONNA GO ALONG FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

AND THEY WILL START TARGETING OUR MILITARY NAVAL VESSELS, AS WELL AS COMMERCIAL SHIPPING.

>> IN TERMS OF MORE EFFECTIVE WAYS OF DETERRING THEM AND STOPPING THIS-FOR-TAT FROM ESCALATING, YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES HAD REMOVED THEM FROM A TERRORIST LIST IN 2021 AS IT WAS TRYING TO NEGOTIATE OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH IRAN.

GIVEN ITS ACTIONS AS OF LATE, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS TIME TO ONCE AGAIN DESIGNATE THE HOUTHIS AS A TERROR ORGANIZATION?

>> YES.

I THINK THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO THAT BECAUSE WHAT THEY ARE DOING, ATTACKING INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING, IS AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT IS A TERRORISTIC ACTION IN AN ATTEMPT TO USE VIOLENCE TO GAIN ATTENTION ON A POLITICAL MATTER.

BUT THEY HAVEN'T DECLARED WAR AGAINST THE ENTIRE WORLD AND YET, THEY HAVE ATTACKED MORE THAN 50 NATIONS IN 27 DIFFERENT ATTACKS SINCE THE 19TH OF NOVEMBER.

SO, I THINK THE UNITED NEEDS TO THINK HARD ABOUT PUTTING THE HOUTHIS BACK ON THE TERROR LIST.

>> ALL RIGHT, RETIRED COLONEL PETER MANSOOR, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON, THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> TODAY, ISRAEL DEFENDED ITSELF AGAINST CHARGES OF GENOCIDE BROUGHT BY SOUTH AFRICA AT THE U.N.

HIGHEST COURT, THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> IT IS RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED THAT THE APPLICATION AND ITS REQUESTS SHOULD BE DISMISSED FOR WHAT THEY ARE, A LIABLE.

BECAUSE THEY DENY ISRAEL THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF ACCORDING TO THE LAW FROM THE UNPRECEDENTED TERROR ONSLAUGHT CONTINUES TO FACE AND TO THREE THE 136 HOSTAGES THAT HAMAS STILL HOLDS.

>> THIS COMES ONE DAY AFTER SOUTH AFRICA PRESENTED ITS CASE, ALLEGING ISRAELI LEADERSHIP WAS INTENT ON DESTROYING THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA.

IN THE COMING DAYS AND WEEKS, THE ICJ'S PANEL OF JUDGES WILL DECIDE WHETHER TO GRANT SOUTH AFRICA'S REQUEST TO ORDER A HALT TO THE GOT OFFENSIVE.

A FINAL RULING FROM THE COURT ON WHETHER IT BELIEVES ISRAEL HAS COMMITTED GENOCIDE COULD TAKE YEARS.

LET'S NOT DISCUSS THIS AND MUCH MORE, POLITICAL SCIENTIST DAHLIA SHAMBLIN.

DELIA, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM FROM TEL AVIV.

IT'S REALLY GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.

YESTERDAY, WE HEARD SOUTH AFRICA'S ARGUMENTS ACCUSING ISRAEL OF GENOCIDE, COMMITTING GENOCIDE AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS, OR AT LEAST, THE PRESUMPTION OF IT, THE POSSIBILITY OF GENOCIDE WHICH IS A LOWER STANDARD THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE MET BY THE COURT.

TODAY, WE HEARD IN THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FROM MULTIPLE ATTORNEYS AND ADVOCATES THEIR, DEFENDING ISRAEL.

I'M CURIOUS TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU FROM WHAT YOU HEARD AND HOW EFFECTIVE THAT IS?

>> YES, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT THAT ISRAEL WAS TRYING TO MAKE, BOTH IN COURT AND IN ITS PUBLIC DIPLOMACY, THIS SORT OF MESSAGING WITHIN THE PUBLIC ENVIRONMENT, IT WAS ALL ABOUT CONTEXT, A WORD THAT HAS FALLEN INTO A CONTROVERSIAL SITUATION AFTER OCTOBER 7TH.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY IS THAT THE CONTEXT FOR THIS WAR WAS OCTOBER 7TH.

AND I THINK, TO ME, THE INTERESTING ARGUMENT WAS THAT ISRAELIS BELIEVE THAT THIS ENTIRE ACCUSATION OF GENOCIDE IS COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED BECAUSE ISRAEL WAS RESPONDING TO WHAT IT CONSIDERS TO BE A GENOCIDAL ATTACK, CERTAINLY, AN ATTACK ON CIVILIANS, ON SOVEREIGN TERRITORY.

BUT THAT'S NOT A STRONG LEGAL ARGUMENT BECAUSE EVEN THE WORST ATTACK, AS THE SOUTH AFRICAN TEAMS THAT YESTERDAY, DOESN'T JUSTIFIED BREACHES OF THE GENOCIDE CONVENTION.

HOWEVER, I THINK, TO ME, THE INTERESTING DISTINCTION THAT ISRAEL TRIED TO MAKE TODAY WAS THAT THIS IS AN ONGOING THREAT AND IN ITS PERSPECTIVE, FROM ISRAEL'S PERSPECTIVE, THE WAR IS FACING THE ONGOING THREAT OF HAMAS WHICH CONTINUES TO POSE A THREAT TO ISRAEL'S PEOPLE AND SOVEREIGN TERRITORY, ROCKET FIRE, AND OF COURSE, THE HOSTAGES.

TO MY MIND, THAT WAS ONE OF THE STRONGEST ARGUMENTS.

I THINK THERE ARE OTHER ARGUMENTS THAT WE'RE NOT QUITE AS STRONG, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY, IT WAS A BROADER ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS EITHER AN ANTI ISRAEL PLOT, ABSURD, POLITICIZED, ANTISEMITIC, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH IN EVERY FORUM OUTSIDE OF THE COURT.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S UNFORTUNATE IN A WAY.

THE OTHER PROBLEM I THINK IS THAT ISRAEL IS TRYING TO MAKE THAT CASE THAT SOUTH AFRICA'S ARGUMENT, THAT THE SENIOR ISRAELI OFFICIALS HAVE MADE STATEMENTS THAT CAN BE INTERPRETED WITH GENOCIDAL INTENT ARE NOT MEANINGFUL BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT COMING FROM MOST SENIOR OFFICIALS.

OF COURSE, SOUTH AFRICA'S TEAM PREEMPTED SOME OF THOSE ARGUMENTS BY FIGHTING STATEMENTS FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, FROM THE PRESIDENT, FROM THE DEFENSE MINISTER AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS.

I THINK THERE IS STILL A TOUGH CASE TO MAKE.

STILL, MOST ISRAELIS THINK THAT THESE CHARGES ARE SERIOUS, I HAVE TO SAY, IT'S NOT MAKING MUCH OF AN IMPRESSION ON ISRAELI SOCIETY.

THEY ARE SIMPLY VIEWING THIS AS AN ANTI-ISRAEL, AND OF UNIQUE SINGLING OUT OF ISRAEL FOR ACTIONS THAT THEY BELIEVE ANY OTHER COUNTRY WOULD HAVE UNDERTAKEN UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> AND IT DOES APPEAR FROM PUBLIC STATEMENTS THAT THE UNITED STATES ALSO SAID PUBLICLY THAT THESE CHARGES WERE MERIT-LESS.

AND JUST A FEW HOURS AGO, WE HEARD FROM GERMANY SAYING THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THESE ACCUSATIONS BY SOUTH AFRICA AS WELL.

BUT IT'S WORTH NOTING, AND NO MATTER WHERE ON THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM THE ISRAELIS LIE, I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR EVERY ISRAELI, BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT A LARGE PORTION OF THE COUNTRY WASN'T ONLY GLUED TO THESE HEARINGS, BUT ALSO TOOK THE VIEW THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED, THIS SHOCKED RESPONSE AS TO HOW ISRAEL, OF ALL COUNTRIES, COULD BE ACCUSED OF GENOCIDE, NOT ONLY BECAUSE ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED ITSELF IN A TERROR ATTACK ON OCTOBER 7TH, BUT OBVIOUSLY ITS OWN HISTORY.

YOU WROTE A PIECE THIS WEEK, IT'S CALLED, ISRAELIS CAN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY CAN BE ACCUSED OF GENOCIDE.

AND HERE'S WHAT SHE WROTE, AS A DECADES-LONG STUDENT OF CONFLICT, THE CREATIVITY OF HUMAN SAVAGERY NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME.

BUT IT'S TIME TO ACCEPT THAT WAS SIMPLY JOINED THE GRIM LIST OF PEOPLE EMBROILED IN MASS ATROCITIES WITH PERPETRATORS AND VICTIMS, ON THIS SIDE OR THE OTHER, WILDLY MIXED.

WHAT LED YOU TO WRITE THIS PIECE AND COME TO THIS CONCLUSION?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S CONFUSING FOR ISRAEL IS THAT THEY SEE THIS AS A CHARGE THAT IS SINGLING OUT ISRAEL.

IN FACT, THEY TEND TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF INTERNATIONAL COURTS AND INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND THE U.N.

IN PARTICULAR, AS FUNDAMENTALLY ANTI ISRAEL AT SIGNALING OUT ISRAEL.

I DISAGREE WITH THIS APPROACH AND I THINK IT'S LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE ISRAELIS, BEING EMBROILED IN AN ONGOING MILITARY OCCUPATION AND CONFLICT, SEE THEMSELVES IN A UNIQUE POSITION.

THEY THINK THAT NOBODY UNDERSTANDS THEIR SUFFERING, THEIR SITUATION.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IN MANY CONFLICTS THAT I'VE WORKED ON, EITHER AS AN ACADEMIC OR AS A PUBLIC OPINION RESEARCHER.

I VISITED VISITED SOME OF THESE CONFLICT AREAS.

I THINK OF PLACES LIKE THE BALKANS, CERTAINLY RWANDA.

BUT THE BALKANS AND PARTICULAR, I NOTICE THAT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT NOBODY UNDERSTANDS THEM AND MANY OF THESE CONFLICTS HAVE OVERLAPPING FEATURES.

IT'S TERRIBLE TO HAVE TO PLAY THE NUMBERS GAME BUT THERE HAVE BEEN CONFLICTS WITH ATROCITIES AGAINST CIVILIANS WITH FAR GREATER NUMBERS.

AND AS I HATE TO HAVE TO ADMIT, HORRORS AND SAVAGERY THAT IS REALLY REMARKABLE AND DEVASTATING.

AND ISRAELIS, I THINK, BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE THAT, I THINK MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THEIR OWN CONFLICT HAVE A HARD TIME SAYING THAT THESE THINGS GO ON AND THEY THINK NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND THEM.

I THINK ISRAEL DID TRY TO PLACE ITS CONFLICT, ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS FOR THAT MATTER, TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR CONFLICTS AROUND THE WORLD, AND THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM AND INTERNATIONAL LAW, AND INTERNATIONAL COURTS, THIS IS SOMEONE DESIGNED TO ADDRESS ALL OF THEM.

THEY MIGHT NOT FEEL SO SINGLED OUT, AS WE, KNOW THE ICG AS HARD CASES INVOLVING RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

AND THE SOUTH AFRICA DELEGATION SAID AGAIN YESTERDAY THAT GAMBIA AGAINST MYANMAR FOR THE MILITARY ACCUSATIONS OF GENOCIDE AGAINST THEM.

AND THE COURT ORDERED MEASURES AGAINST BOTH COUNTRIES.

AND THIS COULD HELP THE ISRAELIS, FIRST OF ALL, NOT TO FEEL SO ALONE.

BUT ALSO REALIZE THAT THESE LAWS AND INSTITUTIONS WERE NOT ESTABLISHED PURPOSELY TO TARGET THEM.

THEY ARE ESTABLISHED ACTUALLY TO TRY TO ADDRESS HUMANITY AS A SINGLE ENTITY IN WHICH EVERYBODY HAS HUMAN RIGHTS AND DESERVES INSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION.

BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S A VERY HARD ARGUMENT TO MAKE FOR THE ISRAELIS HAVING SUFFERED WHAT'S HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7TH, AND OF COURSE, HAVING A LONG TERM HISTORY.

IT WAS UNPRECEDENTED.

AND THE COUNTRY IS STILL AT WAR.

PEOPLE ARE STILL GRIEVING AND ANGUISHED.

AND LOSING PEOPLE AND WE'RE LIVING THAT TRAUMA EVERY DAY.

>> AND PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD CONTINUE TO SAY THAT THEY DON'T FEEL ENOUGH PRESSURE IS PUT ON HAMAS, NOT ONLY TO RELEASE THE HOSTAGES, BUT TO LAY DOWN THEIR ARMS AS WELL AND THEIR ROLE IN THIS HEINOUS ATTACK.

AND YOU COULD CALL THEIR ACTIONS GENOCIDAL AS WELL.

BUT THAT WOULD BE ARBITRATED IN A SEPARATE COURT.

I MENTION THE HOSTAGES, AND WE DO KNOW THAT FAMILY MEMBERS OF HOSTAGES WERE IN THE COURT OF THE HAGUE THERE AS WELL.

ANOTHER DAY GOES BY WHEN I DON'T THINK ABOUT THESE FAMILIES AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH.

WE HAVE VIDEO OF A MOTHER, ONE OF THE HOSTAGES, AND YOU REALIZE HOW SMALL THE COUNTRY IS AND HOW CLOSE GAZA ON THE BORDER AND WHERE THEY ARE LOVED ONES ARE BEING HELD IS.

A MOTHER SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, WITH, AS LOUDLY AS SHE CAN, TO HER CHILD WHO'S BEING HELD THERE, HOPING THAT HER CHILD WILL HEAR HER.

LET'S PLAY THAT SOUND.

>> [SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE] WE LOVE YOU, ROMI.

MY THIRD ONE.

I LOVE YOU.

WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING TO BRING YOU HOME.

WE ARE TELLING EVERYBODY, ALL THE LEADERS, ALL THE CABINET, YOU WILL BRING THEM HOME NOW.

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LOST ON MOST PEOPLE THAT THIS IS PART OF THE TRAUMA, THE ONGOING TRAUMA.

YOU TALKED TO FAMILY MEMBERS OF HOSTAGES, AND EVERY DAY FOR THEM IS OCTOBER 7TH, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T JUST END THAT DATE, YOU STILL HAVE HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL THERE.

IS THIS GOVERNMENT PRIORITIZING THEIR RELEASE AS PART OF -- AS MUCH AS THEY ARE PRIORITIZING THIS FIGHT AGAINST HAMAS?

>> WELL, THIS IS AT MAJOR DEBATE IN ISRAELI SOCIETY.

THE HOSTAGE FAMILIES HAVE MANAGED TO LEVERAGE ENORMOUS PRESSURE ON THE GOVERNMENT.

THEY HAVE HAD A FAIRLY EASY TIME RALLYING LARGE SWATHS OF THE ISRAELI POPULATION TO MAKE THAT CASE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WASN'T PRIORITIZING IT SUFFICIENTLY.

MANY PEOPLE FEEL THAT THE GOVERNMENT PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE REACHED THAT ORIGINAL CEASE-FIRE THAT THOUGHT THE RELEASE OF OVER 100 HOSTAGES IF THERE HADN'T BEEN SO MUCH PRESSURE FROM THE FAMILIES AND I THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TRIED TO MAKE THE CASE THAT IT PRIORITIZES BOTH EQUALLY.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT REALLY RUSHING TO REACH YET ANOTHER CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT THAT COULD SEE THAT RELEASE OF HOSTAGES.

BUT THAT BRINGS ME BACK TO THE POINT THAT I MADE EARLIER WHICH I THINK IS REALLY STRONGLY CONVEYED BY THE SITUATION WHICH IS ONGOING.

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE EGREGIOUS VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW, HUMAN DECENCY, OF COURSE.

THESE ARE ATROCITIES, HOLDING THESE HOSTAGES, IT VIOLATES, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

AND SO, ISRAELIS, AGAIN, IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR THEM TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

IT MAKES IT HARD FOR PALESTINIANS TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

THE FACT IS THERE ARE ONGOING VIOLATIONS, CRIMES, YOU KNOW, THE DAMAGE TO CIVILIANS'S ANALYSTS.

THIS IS HAPPENING ON BOTH SIDES AND BOTH SIDES HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.

IT IS NOT SEEN AS FAIR BY THE ISRAELIS THAT HAMAS, BECAUSE OF THE TECHNICALITY, NOT BEING A STATE, REPORTING TO ICG THE, IS NOT ON TRIAL ITSELF BECAUSE OF THE KINDS OF ANGUISH SCENES THAT WE SEE OF THESE PARENTS EVERY DAY.

>> DAHLIA SCHEINDLIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US TONIGHT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> NOW, GAZANS ARE FACING A DESPERATE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS WITH FOOD SHELVES STILL EMPTY AND FAMILIES STRUGGLING TO FEED THEMSELVES.

THOUSANDS WERE SEEN SURROUNDING TO AID TRUCKS IN NORTHERN GAZA LAST MONTH AS CRUCIAL FOOD DELIVERIES REMAIN IN HINDERED BY-LIMITED SAFE ACCESS INTO THE STRIP.

ACCORDING TO THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CINDY MCCAIN, THE TERRITORY IS REACHING A TIPPING POINT.

SHE SPEAKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT THE DARK SITUATION IN CONFLICT ZONES AND WHY FOOD INSECURITY IS A GLOBAL CONCERN.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.

AND CINDY MCCAIN, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.

>> SECRETARY OF STATE TONY BLINKEN, JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, WAS IN THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME WAREHOUSE IN JORDAN, TALKING ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT WHAT YOU'RE ALL IN HELPING GAZA.

TELL ME ABOUT THE SITUATION THERE?

>> OH, GOSH.

IN ALL THE YEARS, MOST OF THE VERY SENIOR PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR ME HAVE BEEN DOING THIS, AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS.

GAZA IS ON THE BRINK OF FAMINE.

THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ASKING FOR WITH REGARDS TO THE WFP AND FEEDING PEOPLE ARE SAFE ACCESS SO THAT WE CAN GET THE TRUCKS IN, AND THE ABILITY TO BE THE CONFLICTED SO THAT WE CAN WORK SAFELY ON THE GROUND THERE.

IT'S A MESS.

AND MORE IMPORTANT, MORE IMPORTANTLY IN THIS, UNTIL WE GET MORE AND MORE ACCESS, THAT MEANS MORE GATES, MORE ROUTES IN THE COUNTRY IN A FASTER AND BETTER WAIT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO FEED PEOPLE.

>> SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN, AS I SAID, WAS JUST AT ONE OF THE WAREHOUSES IN JORDAN.

AND THEN, HE WENT TO VISIT ISRAEL, VISIT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU.

HAS HE BEEN HELPING YOU TO PUSH FOR ACCESS?

>> YES.

SECRETARY BLINKEN HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.

HE'S BEEN HELPING, YOU KNOW, CARRYING ON OUR MESSAGE AND THE MESSAGE OF OTHERS AS WELL.

AND THE IMPORTANCE OF WHY IT'S NECESSARY THAT WE GET IN, AGAIN, WE ARE TRYING TO STAVE OFF FAMINE IN GAZA.

AND UNLESS WE CAN GET IN THERE AND BEGIN TO FEED IN A LARGE MANNER AND IN A WAY THAT CAN NOT JUST IN THE SHELTERS BUT IN COMMUNITIES AROUND, WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUSHED INTO.

WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO SAVE LIVES.

WE HAVE LITTLE CHILDREN NOW THAT ARE REALLY STARVING TO DEATH.

AND WE HAVE FAMILIES THAT ARE DESPERATE.

YOU HEAR ABOUT THE TRUCKS BEING GRADED, OR YOU HEAR ABOUT THE DISRUPTION, THE UNREST THAT'S GOING ON.

PEOPLE ARE DESPERATE.

AS YOU KNOW, YOU WILL DO EVERYTHING TO FEED YOUR FAMILY.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT, THAT WE ARE ABLE TO GET IN AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN FEED PEOPLE.

>> THE CHIEF ECONOMIST OF THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME SAID THAT OF THAT 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE IN GAZA NOW, THERE IS A HIGH CHANCE OF FAMINE, THAT THERE IS A FOOD INSECURITY CRISIS GOING ON.

EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THAT MEANS?

>> WELL, I WILL PUT IT -- TAKE IT DOWN TO VERY SIMPLE TONES HERE.

THERE'S A FAMILY, LET'S SAY, OF EIGHT PEOPLE.

AND SIX OF THOSE ARE KIDS.

WELL, THE PARENTS ARE NOT GONNA FEED THEMSELVES IF THEIR ONLY OPTION IS TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN.

THEY'RE MAKING HARD CHOICES ABOUT WHO AND HOW TO FEED, HOW MUCH TO FEED.

AND SO, JUST ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO GET FOOD IN, JUST FROM A BOTTOM LINE STANDPOINT.

THESE ARE THE KINDS OF SITUATIONS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE UP AGAINST RIGHT NOW.

AND THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE AT WFP ARE TRYING DESPERATELY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN HELP, NOT JUST IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT IN THE LONG TERM ALSO.

>> HOW MUCH FOOD IS GETTING INTO GAZA?

AND IS THERE ENOUGH FOOD IF YOU CAN JUST GET THE ENTRY INTO THE TRUCKS INTO GAZA?

>> YES.

THERE IS ENOUGH ACCESS TO FOOD.

WE ARE BEGINNING TO PUT A SIZEABLE AMOUNT TOGETHER.

WE'VE ALREADY STARTED IT.

IT'S NOT COMPLETE YET.

BUT THAT AMOUNT OF FOOD, WHEN WE DO PUT THIS IN PLACE, IT CAN FEED GOSSIP FOR THREE MONTHS, THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF GAZA.

SO, THAT'S WHY THE ACCESS THINK IS SO IMPORTANT.

IF YOU CAN GET IN THERE IN A MAJOR WAY TO NOT JUST FEED BUT MAKE SURE THAT THAT FOOD IS, FIRST EMERGENCY FOOD, AND THEN FOOD THAT IS SUBSISTENT FOR A LONG TERM.

RIGHT NOW, WE ARE GETTING OUT EMERGENCY RATIONS.

AND WE NEED TO DO MUCH MORE ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUNG CHILDREN.

AS YOU KNOW, UNICEF HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS A GREAT DEAL AND THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE HAVING WITH VERY YOUNG CHILDREN AS A RESULT OF IT.

>> THE HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH HAS ACCUSED ISRAEL OF USING STARVATION AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

IS THAT TRUE?

>> I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

ALL WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS DEAL WITH WHAT WE KNOW AND WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW ON THE GROUND AND AS WE NEED TO GET IN AND FEED.

THE IMPORTANT PART OF ALL OF THIS IS MAKING SURE THAT THE WORLD UNDERSTANDS THE DESPERATION THAT'S INVOLVED HERE.

AND SO, I WOULD LEAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS FOR OUR POLITICIANS AND FOR THE U.N.

HIERARCHY.

BUT WHAT I NEED RIGHT NOW IS SAFE ACCESS AND THE ABILITY TO GET IN AND FEED.

>> THERE ARE MORE THAN 300 MILLION PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO FACE STARVATION, FOOD CRISES.

WHAT'S THE CAUSE OF THAT?

IS IT A LACK OF FOOD?

OR IS IT THE LACK OF THE ABILITY TO GET FOOD TO THE RIGHT PLACE?

>> IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS, AND I WILL START WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

LARGE PORTIONS OF AFRICA ARE IN THIS KIND OF FOOD DESPERATION BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND CLIMATE CHANGE HAS BEEN A DISASTER AND I WILL SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THE SAHEL RIGHT NOW.

WITH THE LACK OF RAIN, THE LACK OF ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO PLANT AND GROW CROPS, PEOPLE ARE STARVING TO DEATH.

AND SO, IT'S UP TO ORGANIZATIONS LIKE OURS TO GET IN, AGAIN, AND FEED THEM.

THIS SITUATION WORLDWIDE IS DESPERATE.

WE'RE NOT JUST LOOKING AT A FEW COUNTRIES, WE ARE LOOKING AT MANY COUNTRIES THAT DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO ADEQUATELY FEED THEIR POPULATIONS.

AND THAT IS WHERE WFP COMES INTO PLAY.

>> I WAS READING THE WFP WEBSITE WHICH, JUST AS ALL OF OUR VIEWERS DO, AND BESIDES CLIMATE CHANGE, IT SAYS THE BIGGEST DRIVER'S CONFLICT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> WELL, CONFLICTS, THEY HAVE CAUSED A GREAT DEAL OF THIS.

AND I WILL SPEAK NOW TO SUDAN, ESPECIALLY, BECAUSE AS YOU ARE ALL AWARE OF WHAT HAS OCCURRED IN SUDAN, BUT AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE REFUGEE FLOW HAS BEEN ASTRONOMICAL.

GOING INTO CHAD, ETHIOPIA, AND OTHER COUNTRIES WITHIN THE REGION.

AND WE'VE HAD TO MAKE SOME VERY TOUGH DECISIONS, THE WFP, I, MEAN THEY HAVE HAD TO MAKE SOME VERY TOUGH DECISIONS BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUNDING.

AND SO, I'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN MY OWN MIND, TAKING FOOD FROM THE HUNGRY TO GIVE TO THE STARVING.

AND THAT'S A DECISION THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER DAY.

IN PLACES LIKE CHAD, LIKE HAITI, LIKE THE DRC CONGO, LIKE SOMALIA, REGIONS LIKE THAT, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

WE HAVE HAD PLENTY OF FUNDING SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY NOW.

SOME HAVING TO MAKE SOME VERY SERIOUS TOUGH DECISIONS.

>> TELL ME ABOUT WHO'S GETTING CUT BECAUSE OF THESE DECISIONS.

>> WELL, WE ARE SHORTENING RATIONS.

IN SOME AREAS, WE USED TO GIVE RATIONS THAT WOULD LAST YEAR.

NOW, WE ARE REDUCING IT TO SIX MONTHS.

AND NOW, WE'VE REDUCED IT, IN SOME CASES, 20.

IN AFGHANISTAN, IT'S A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THAT.

WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BE ABLE TO FEED EVERYONE.

WE ARE HAVING TO CUT PEOPLE FROM THE ROLES AND ACCESS TO FOOD.

I HAVE BEEN STANDING IN A LINE WITH A WOMAN, I WAS IN SOUTH SUDAN, AND I WATCH, SHE WAS PREGNANT, AND I WATCHED THE GENTLEMAN BEHIND THE DESK SAY, YOUR RATIONS ARE UP.

I CAN'T GIVE YOU ANY MORE.

I MEAN, SHE WAS PREGNANT, SHE HAD TWO YOUNG CHILDREN.

THESE ARE THE KINDS OF DECISIONS WE HAVE TO MAKE AND WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE THOSE.

YOU KNOW, I CONTINUE TO RAISE THE FLAG AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT THE DESPERATION, THE IMPORTANCE OF WHY WE NEED TO FEED AND BE IN THEIR, AND WHY WE NEED THE MONEY TO DO IT.

>> THE WFP FACES A 15 BILLION DOLLAR SHORTFALL THIS COMMON HERE.

WHY DO THEY FACE SUCH A SHORTFALL OF FUNDING?

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF COUNTRIES, I SHOULD SAY, THEY ARE WEARY.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN CRISIS AFTER CRISIS AFTER CRISIS, AND THEIR OWN CONSTITUENTS ARE SAYING, ENOUGH.

LET'S PAY ATTENTION TO OUR OWN HOME.

AND I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

IT'S STILL, IT DOESN'T MAKE THESE STARVING PEOPLE GO AWAY.

THESE THINGS JUST DON'T DISAPPEAR.

SO, I DO THE VERY BEST I CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD AND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS.

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE NOT GONNA FEED THEM NOW, CONFLICT IS GOING TO TAKE OVER.

THE BAD GUYS ARE GONNA ROLL AND.

AND THEN, WE'VE GOT AN EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM.

SO, THAT'S WHY I CONTINUE TO DO, HOPEFULLY, TESTIFY IN FRONT OF CONGRESS, SPEAK TO.

I'M GOING TO DAVOS THIS COMING WEEKEND TO TALK ABOUT THIS CRISIS WORLDWIDE AND WHY WE NEED TO BE EXTRA DILIGENT ABOUT WHAT WE DO AND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE GIVE EVEN MORE.

>> YOU'VE JUST MADE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN FEEDING PEOPLE AND NATIONAL SECURITY.

IT'S UP TO YOU TALK QUITE A BIT.

EXPLAIN WHY THIS ISN'T JUST A HUMANITARIAN ISSUE BUT A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE?

>> WELL, IT IS.

I MEAN, I WILL TALK ABOUT A PLACE LIKE SOMALIA, OR I WILL TALK ABOUT A PLACE, AGAIN, LIKE THE SAHEL, AND SOME OF THE OTHER REGIONS IN THERE.

WITHOUT ADEQUATE FOOD, PEOPLE WILL, AS I SAID, THEY'LL DO ANYTHING.

AND IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE BAD GUYS TO ROLL IN.

AND THAT BECOMES A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE.

THAT'S A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE THAT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS SEEING AS WELL.

SO, I APPEAL TO MY OWN GOVERNMENT AND THE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD TO LOOK AT IT FROM A NATIONAL SECURITY PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE IF WE DON'T FEED THEM, THE BAD GUYS ARE GONNA GET RIGHT IN AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO FEED THEM.

>> HOW IS THE BEST WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE FOOD INSECURITY AND FOOD PROBLEMS?

IS IT GIVING AWAY FOOD?

OR IS THERE A DEEPER SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM?

>> WELL, WE HAVE TO PROCESS THE ROOT CAUSE OF IT.

YOU DON'T, IS IT CLIMATE CHANGE?

IS IT CONFLICT WHEN?

IS IT, YOU KNOW, THE COST, COST IS A BIG DELIVERER AND IT IS AS WELL.

WE NEED TO GET AT THE ROOT CAUSES.

TEACHING PEOPLE, NOT JUST TEACHING PEOPLE HOW TO FARM, BUT GIVING THEM THE TOOLS AND THE WATER TO DO SO.

IN MANY CASES, IT COMES DOWN TO WATER.

SO, AND I THINK FROM A WORLDWIDE STANDPOINT, I REALLY TALK A GREAT DEAL ABOUT THIS WHEN I'M OUT AND ABOUT BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE ROOT CAUSES AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THEM.

ASIDE FROM JUST GIVING FOOD, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THEY NEED TO BE SELF SUFFICIENT.

>> WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING TO DO THAT, SO IT'S JUST NOT A FOOD GIVEAWAY PROGRAM?

IN FACT, SOME WOULD ARGUE THAT FOOD GIVEAWAYS COULD BE HARMFUL IN THE LONG RUN?

TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO FACE THAT.

>> AGAIN, WE HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD.

AND I WILL USE, CENTRAL AMERICA, THE DRY ZONE, AS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS.

AS I SAID, WE ARE GIVING PEOPLE THE TOOLS.

SO, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE LAND TO FARM ON, MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO SEED AND TO WATER, MOST IMPORTANTLY, AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY CAN GET THEM TO THE MARKET.

AND SO, IT'S A MATTER OF JUST SUPPORTING AND GIVING THEM THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO DO IT THEMSELVES.

NO ONE WANTS TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.

NO ONE WANTS TO NOT BE ABLE TO FEED THEIR FAMILY.

SO, FOR US, TO BE ABLE TO PUT PROGRAMS IN PLACE, TO BE ABLE TO DO JUST THAT, IT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AROUND THE WORLD.

AND ALSO, I THINK, A THING THAT WE CALL CASH-BASED TRANSFERS, IT GIVES PEOPLE THE ABILITY, WOMEN PARTICULARLY, BECAUSE IT EMPOWERS WOMEN, THE ABILITY TO BUY IN THE LOCAL MARKET RATHER THAN US GIVING FOOD TO THEM, WE GIVE THEM A CASH BASED TRANSFER SO THAT THEY CAN BUY IN THE LOCAL MARKET.

THAT HELPS EVERYONE.

IT HELPS THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

SO, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AND THAT THE WFP ACTUALLY STARTED AND NOW IT'S BECOME KIND OF A WORLDWIDE TOOL.

>> UKRAINE USED TO BE REFERRED TO AS THE BREAD BASKET, A BREAD BASKET OF THE WORLD.

TELL ME WHAT THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAS DONE TO EXACERBATE THIS ISSUE?

>> YES, YOUR DESCRIPTION IS EXACTLY CORRECT.

IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, WITH THE INABILITY, IN SOME CASES, AND A MUCH SMALLER ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO GET GRAIN OUT, IT'S REALLY HAMPERED HOW WE FEED, AND I WILL USE MADAGASCAR AS A GOOD EXAMPLE, AND OTHER REGIONS OF AFRICA WHERE WE CAN BRING GRAIN OUT BY SHIP AND BE ABLE TO REPLENISH IT AND DO WHAT WE DO, WHAT THE WFP DOES WITH IT.

AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT WITH YOUR QUAINT.

WE'VE GOTTEN SOME GRAIN OUT, BUT NOT ENOUGH OUT, NOT TO WHERE WE WERE BEFORE.

SO UKRAINE SITUATION HAS BEEN DAMAGING IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

BUT FROM A FOOD STANDPOINT, IT'S BEEN DEVASTATING.

SO, WE'VE HAD TO, OTHER SUPPLIERS, OTHER SUPPLIERS OF A GRAIN, AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN SOURCE IT.

IT'S MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

THAT COST US MONEY, WHICH MEANS, YOU KNOW, IT'S LATER GETTING TO WHERE IT SHOULD GO, AND OF COURSE, THE EXPENSE IS UNBELIEVABLE.

>> THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY HAS SAID THAT IT REALLY WANTS TO END HUNGER AND MALNUTRITION BY 2030.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

HOW COULD THAT BE DONE?

>> WELL, I WILL WORK WITH ANY, ANYBODY THAT CAN OFFER SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I REALLY WILL.

IT MEANS THAT WE ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER, THAT WE CAN NO LONGER -- THIS ISN'T A PROBLEM THAT IS ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S DOORSTEP.

THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT IS ON OUR OWN DOORSTEP AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH HUNGER.

AND IT DOES EVERYBODY GOOD.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE EATING, THEY'RE CALM.

THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.

THEY DON'T BECOME A -- RECRUITED BY THESE GUYS THAT COME THROUGH WITH THESE NEFARIOUS CHARACTERS THAT COME THROUGH.

IT HELPS ALL OF US.

AND SO, WHENEVER I SPEAK TO GROUPS, OR COUNTRIES, OR HEADS OF STATE, I SAY, LISTEN, YOU NEED TO BE IN THIS BECAUSE THIS WILL AFFECT YOU, WHETHER IT'S NOW OR NOT, IT WILL AFFECT YOU.

AND SO, JUST REMINDING THE WORLD, REMINDING OUR WORLD LEADERS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF WORKING TOGETHER ON THIS.

AND THAT SOUNDS VERY LOFTY, HOW TO GET THE WORLD TO WORK TOGETHER?

WE CAN'T SEEM TO DO ANYTHING TOGETHER.

BUT I THINK THE ARENA OF FOOD, WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

WE HAVE TO.

>> THIS JOB AT THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN UKRAINE, NOW WE LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA, AROUND THE WORLD, IT'S GOTTA BE GRUELING.

I MEAN, IT'S REALLY TOUGH.

YOU ARE BASED IN ROME.

YOU ARE TRAVELING TO PLACES LIKE SOMALIA AND SEEING IT.

WHAT DRIVES YOU TO DO THIS?

WHAT KEEPS YOU GOING?

>> YOU KNOW, I CAN HONESTLY TELL YOU, I CONSIDER MYSELF A HUMANITARIAN, AND I HAVE BEEN MOST OF MY ADULT LIFE.

AND WHAT DRIVES ME IS I KNOW THAT WE CAN DO BETTER.

I KNOW THAT WE CAN HELP.

AND SO, WHAT DRIVES ME ARE THE PEOPLE THAT I SEE.

AND I MENTIONED THAT GIRL THAT WAS PREGNANT WITH THE TWO KIDS.

THAT'S WHAT DRIVES ME, IT IS OUR ABILITY AS AN ORGANIZATION, AND AS A WORLD, TO WORK TOGETHER TO FEED PEOPLE IN DESPERATE SITUATIONS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT DRIVES ME.

WHAT KEEPS ME AWAKE IS NOT BEING ABLE TO FEED THEM.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE STRESS OF A JOB, THAT'S WHAT KEEPS ME AWAKE AND WHAT, TO ME, IS THE MOST GRUESOME THING THAT I FACE, IT'S NOT BEING ABLE TO FEED PEOPLE.

AND SO, IT IS TWOFOLD.

IT HELPS ME CONTINUE ON.

IT ALSO BREAKS MY HEART.

>> CINDY MCCAIN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WHAT YOU DO.

>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>>> AT LEAST 79 JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED SINCE OCTOBER 7TH DURING THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS.

AT A TIME ONE OF THE MEDIA IS FACING UNPRECEDENTED DANGER, WE WANT TO REVISIT THAT STORY OF AMERICAN JOURNALIST MARIE COLEMAN WHO WAS KILLED IN 2012 COVERING THE CONFLICT IN SYRIA.

SHE CHEATED DEATH MANY TIMES, EVEN LOSING AN EYE WHILE REPORTING ON THE WAR IN SRI LANKA.

CHRISTIANE SPOKE WITH TWO PEOPLE WHO FOCUS ON HER WORK AND LIFE.

THE ACTRESS WHO PLAYED MARIA AND THE MOVIE THE PRIVATE WAR, AND MURRAY'S FRIEND AND TV CORRESPONDENT, LINDSEY HILSUM, WHO HAD ACCESS TO HER DIARIES FOR HER BIOGRAPHIES.

LET'S LOOK BACK AT THEIR CONVERSATION IN 2018.

>> ROSEMARY, MIKE LINDSEY HILSUM, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU'VE WRITTEN A BOOK ON MARIE COLVIN, AN EXTREMIST.

AND YOU'VE HAD AMAZING ACCESS TO HER DIARIES.

BUT YOU ALSO KNOW WHAT RODMAN HAS LEARNED TO KNOW BY PLAYING THIS SINGULAR CHARACTER.

>> I THINK THE THING ABOUT MARIA, PEOPLE OFTEN SAID THAT SHE WAS FEARLESS.

SHE WASN'T REALLY FEARLESS BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS OVERCOME HER FEAR BECAUSE SHE WAS SO MOTIVATED.

SHE WAS SO HIGHLY MOTIVATED TO TELL THE STORY OF VICTIMS OF WAR.

AND THAT WAS CONSCRIPTS AS WELL.

THERE WAS NOTHING THAT MURRAY LIKED MORE THAN SITTING IN A MUDDY TRENCH WITH A BUNCH OF SOLDIERS AND FINDING OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

BUT SHE DID THINK ABOUT HER SAFETY.

I OFTEN WORKED ALONGSIDE MARRY HER DANGEROUS THRESHOLD WAS FAR BEYOND MINE, AND SHE ALWAYS ALWAYS WENT IN FURTHER AND STATE LONGER.

THAT'S WHY SHE GOT THE BEST STORIES.

THAT'S WHY SHE'S NOT WITH US TODAY.

>> I'M GONNA START WITH ONE OF THE CLIPS NOW BECAUSE IT'S ONE SHE'S ACTUALLY MEETING PHOTOGRAPHER FULL CONVOY FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHO WAS WITH HER TO THE END INTERIOR.

BUT THIS IS IN IRAQ AND SHE'S DOING HER TYPICAL THING, WANTING TO MEET UP AND COLLABORATE WITH THE BEST OF THE BEST.

LET US JUST PLAY THIS AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT.

>> WHAT'S YOUR NAME?

>>.

>> I AM MARIE.

ARE YOU A FREELANCER?

ANY GOOD?

>> THE BEST.

PAUL, A PHOTOGRAPHER, ALSO WORKED WITH YOU ON THE SCRIPT AND AS A CONSULTANT.

WHAT DID YOU GAIN FROM MEETING THE PEOPLE WHO SEE NOT JUST NEW BUT WORKED IN THE FIELD WITH?

PLUS, HOW DID YOU GET ABOUT UNCANNILY ACCURATE DEPICTION OF HER?

>> THAT'S VERY NICE.

I MEAN, MARIE WAS AN AMAZING PERSON AND INIMITABLE PRESENTS.

AND I KNEW THAT IN PLAYING HER, I HAD TO INHABIT HER.

AND SO, I KNEW THAT INVOLVE CHANGING THE WAY I WALKED, I SPOKE, CHANGING THE WAY I LEARNED HOW TO SMOKE -- [INAUDIBLE] >> LEARNING TO DRINK MARTINIS AS WELL.

>> ALL OF THE ABOVE.

AND PAUL CONNERY CAME WITH US, JUST TO CHECK OUT WHAT WE ARE DOING FOR ABOUT A WEEK AND GET US UP ON OUR FEET.

HE ENJOYED IT AND HE STAYED WITH US, AND ACTUALLY, BECAME ON SET, YOU KNOW, A BIT OF US HAVE SOUGHT RELIEF.

IT WAS VERY VALUABLE TO HAVE HIM AROUND BECAUSE HE GAVE A REAL SENSE OF ALL TIMES OF MARIE AND PAUL, THEIR CAMARADERIE OF HER, OF THE MOMENTS THAT SHE WOULD GO THAT QUITE BECAUSE SHE WAS LIVING THE FEAR THAT LINDSEY WAS TALKING ABOUT.

I AGREE WITH YOU, DEFINITELY NOT FEARLESS.

THE COURAGE, GOING ANYWHERE.

>> I WOULD FAST FORWARD TO A DRAMATIC, TOWARDS THE END OF HER LIFE AND I WANT TO PLAY ONE OF THE VERY LAST DISPATCHES SHE GAVE FROM HOMS, WHICH WAS TO ANDERSON COOPER.

AND IT BECAME REALLY SEMINAL.

LET'S JUST PLAY IT.

>> IT'S A COMPLETE LIE THAT THEY'RE ONLY GOING AFTER TERRORISTS.

THERE ARE ROCKETS, TANK SHELLS, ANTI AIRCRAFT TANKS FIRED IN PARALLEL LINES INTO THE CITY.

THE SYRIAN ARMY HAS BEEN SHELLING THE CITY OF HOMS, WITH TRAPPED CIVILIANS.

>> SHE WAS IN ONE OF THE SUBURBS OF HOMES.

AND SHE INSISTED ON STAYING, THAT'S PART OF THE CONTROVERSY BETWEEN HER, PAUL, AND THE EDITORS, AND THE PEOPLE WHO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER IN THE END.

IT'S A PIVOTAL MOMENT IN THE FILM.

WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND?

I MEAN, YOU ARE PLAYING HER.

YOU'VE ASSIMILATED SO MUCH.

AND YET, YOU KNOW WHAT, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY, THAT DETERMINATION TO STAY IS WHAT COST HER HER LIFE.

>> IT'S SO FUNNY, YOU DON'T, MY HEART RACING, JUST, I HAVEN'T BEEN NERVOUS SITTING HERE.

AND THEN, WE PLAY THAT.

SOMEWHERE IN MY BODY, I GO BACK TO THE FEELINGS THAT I HAD PLAYING MARIE AT THAT TIME IN HER LIFE.

AND THAT SHE WAS IN HOMS, AND THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THE ASSAULT WAS COMING, AND IT WAS WISE TO LEAVE.

THEY WERE HALFWAY DOWN THE STORM DRAIN, THIS FOUR KILOMETER STORM DRAIN, THE ENTRY AND EXIT POINT FOR JOURNALISTS IN HOMS.

AND SHE WAS HALFWAY DOWN, A FEW HUNDRED METERS DOWN, AND SHE SAID I'VE HAD GOT TO GO BACK, 28,000 PEOPLE THERE.

AND I CAN'T ABANDON THEM.

AND PAUL SAID TO HER, YOU REALIZE IF WE GO BACK, WE WILL DIE?

AND SHE SAID, I HAVE TO GO BACK.

THIS IS WHAT WE DO.

THIS IS WHAT WE DO.

AND SHE WENT BACK.

HE, OF COURSE, FOLLOWED HER BECAUSE HE WASN'T GONNA LEAVE HER.

AND THEN, HE TOLD ME ACTUALLY THAT THEY, I FIND IT IS VERY MUCH STRANGE, SO FORGIVE ME.

BUT HE SAID THAT THEY BOTH FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT THEY MIGHT NOT MAKE THE DEADLINE TO THE SUNDAY TIMES THAT WEEK, AND THAT WAS WHAT MOTIVATED HER DECISION TO ASK SEAN RYAN IF SHE CAN BROADCAST WITH CNN WOLF AND THE BBC.

AND SHE -- >> SHE CALLED ME.

AND I SAID, I WAS FURIOUS WITH HER.

I SAID, MARIE, WHY DID YOU GO BACK?

AND SHE SAID, LINDSEY, IT'S THE WORST THING WE'VE EVER SEEN.

I SAID, I KNOW.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S YOUR EXIT STRATEGY?

SHE SAID, THAT'S IT.

WE DON'T HAVE ONE.

I'M WORKING ON IT NOW.

AND THEN, A FEW HOURS LATER, SHE WAS KILLED.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF JOURNALISTS KILLED IN SYRIA ARE SYRIANS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THE MAJORITY OF JOURNALISTS, ALL OVER THE WORLD, KILLED BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS AND FROM ORGANIZED CRIMINALS.

>> I WANT TO PLAY, BECAUSE THIS FILM IS CALLED A PRIVATE WAR, SO IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT MARIE'S WAR WORK.

IT'S ALSO ABOUT HER INTERNAL WAR WITH HERSELF.

AND SHE HAD, AS YOU KNOW, WE KNOW, A LOT OF PTSD.

SHE WAS A HEAVY DRINKER.

SHE HAD A COUPLE OF MISCARRIAGES.

SHE HAD FAILED MARRIAGES.

SHE HAD SUICIDE.

SHE HAD DIVORCE.

SHE HAD JUST SO MUCH GOING ON IN HER OWN LIFE AS SHE WAS NONETHELESS CONDUCTING THIS WORK AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL.

AND I JUST WANT TO PLAY, MARIE ACCEPTING AN AWARD BACK IN 2000.

THEN, MARIE TALKING TO PAUL IN THE FILM WHEN SHE'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE REHABILITATION CLINICS.

>> THE PAIN OF WAR IS REALLY BEYOND TELLING.

I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER FOLLOWED A STORY AND FELT THAT I GOT IT.

I REALLY SAID WHAT I WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL.

BUT I DO TRY.

AND I THINK WHATEVER THE RIGHTS AND WRONGS OF A CONFLICT, I FEEL WE FAIL IF WE DON'T FACE WHAT WAR DOES, FACE THE HUMAN HORRORS, RATHER THAN JUST RECORDS WHO WON AND WHO LOST.

>> I FEEL GROWING OLD.

I ALSO FEAR DYING YOUNG.

♪ ♪ I AM MOST HAPPY WITH A VODKA, MARTINI IN MY HEAD, BUT I CAN'T STAND THE FACT THAT THE CHATTER IN MY HEAD WON'T GO QUIET UNTIL THERE IS A QUARTER BUG INSIDE ME.

♪ ♪ I HATE BEING IN A WAR ZONE.

I ALSO FEEL COMPELLED -- COMPELLED TO SEE IT FOR MYSELF.

>> SO, IT'S REALLY REAL.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IN ORDER TO, I THINK THAT LINDSAY AND I FELT THAT IN ORDER TO DO MARIE JUSTICE, WE NEED TO GO INTO THE DEPTHS OF HER SO.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M VERY, VERY INTERESTED IN THE COST OF DOING ANY JOB AT EYE LEVEL, WHETHER IT'S WHAT YOU DO OR HER WORK.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED PLACE FOR THE WAR CORRESPONDENT BECAUSE I'M SURE YOU MUST FEEL WHEN YOU ARE OUT THERE, YOU ARE EXPOSED TO SO MUCH TRAUMA AND PAIN.

IT MUST BE PART OF, YOU WHY I'M FEELING THIS.

AND YET, YOU MUST FEEL.

YOU CANNOT BE EXPOSED TO THAT LEVEL OF TRAUMA WITHOUT FEELING.

THIS WHERE DOES IT GO?

>> ONE OF THE REASONS I CALLED THIS BOOK, IN EXTREMIS, BECAUSE MARIE TALKS ABOUT PEOPLE LIVING IN EXTREMIST AND WHAT REALLY HAPPENS AND MORE.

OBVIOUSLY, SHE ALSO LIVED HER OWN LIFE IN EXTREMISTS, THAT WAS IT.

AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY BECAUSE THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING, SHE WAS THE BEST IN THE COMPANY.

SHE WAS THE FUNNIEST PERSON.

AND SO, I USED TO THINK OF US AS THE THELMA AND LOUISE OF THE PRESS CORPS.

WHENEVER I'D BE ANYWHERE, MARIA WOULD BE, NOW, I'M GONNA HAVE FUN.

AND THERE WAS AN ALLOCATION WHERE, THERE WAS AN OCCASION WHEN WE WERE ON A STAGE.

AND THE EARNEST YOUNG WOMAN GOT UP AND SAID, HOW DO YOU COPE WITH A TRAUMA?

AND MARIE TURNS TO ME AND SHE SAYS, WELL, LINDSAY AND I GO TO BARS AND WE TRAIN DRINK.

>> WHAT DO WE CALL IT?

BLACK HUMOR?

ROSAMUND PIKE, LINDSEY HILSUM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> FANTASTIC CONVERSATION.

>>> FINALLY, WE CLOSE OUR SHOW WITH SOME MUSIC, BEST WAY TO CLOSE OUR SHOW.

TAKE A LISTEN AND THINK ABOUT WHERE YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THIS BEFORE.

♪ ♪ >> THE PIECE WAS FAMOUSLY USED BY DELTA AIRLINES AND COMMERCIALS AND IN FLIGHTS.

IT WAS WRITTEN BY CALL JENKINS, ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST POPULAR LIVING MUSICIANS.

HIS WORKS INCLUDE THE ARMED, THEN A MASS FOR PEACE, PERFORMED AROUND THE GLOBE.

THIS YEAR SAW HIM CELEBRATE HIS 80TH BIRTHDAY IN A WORLD TOUR, BEGINNING AT NEW YORK'S CARNEGIE ALL, WHERE ELSE?

AND HE JOINS ME LIVE FROM THERE NOW.

SIR CARL JENKINS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IT'S QUITE AN HONOR TO HAVE YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

YOU ARE CELEBRATING YOUR 80TH BIRTHDAY WITH AN INTERNATIONAL CONCERT TOUR.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE NOW WAS WHEN YOU WANTED TO DO THIS ON YOUR ATF?

>> WELL I USUALLY COME HERE EVERY YEAR OR SO, APART FROM THE COVID YEARS OF COURSE, TO BE PRESENT AT A CONCERT OF MY OWN MUSIC THAT WAS PUT ON.

JOHN WAS THE CONDUCTOR.

AND ANOTHER PERSON WAS THE FELLOW FOUNDER OF THE COMPANY.

IT'S A SPECIAL YEAR.

IT'S A SPECIAL NUMBER.

WE WILL COME AROUND AGAIN.

IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO LEAD IT WITH A -- I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE BEEN ANYWAY AT THIS TIME.

BUT THE BIRTHDAY IS ACTUALLY FEBRUARY 17.

IT'S A PRETTY BIRTHDAY CONCERT.

I'M HONORED, THRILLED TO BE HERE FOR THIS.

>> SAME BIRTHDAY AS MY STEPSON.

I'LL KEEP THAT IN MY MIND.

I'M JUST WONDERING, REFLECTING BACK ON ALL OF THE PREVIOUS TOURS AND TIME SPENT IN NEW YORK, YOU KNOW, YOUR MUSIC REALLY FOCUSING SO MUCH ON PEACE AT A TIME WHEN THERE'S SO MUCH TURMOIL AROUND THE WORLD NOW TWO YEARS INTO THE WAR, IN UKRAINE, AND OBVIOUSLY THE ONGOING WAR IN ISRAEL WITH HAMAS IN GAZA.

IS IT EVEN MORE POIGNANT FOR YOU NOW?

>> YES, IT KIND OF GOES, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

AGAIN, IT WAS COMMISSIONED IN 1998 AS A MILLENNIUM PIECE TO CELEBRATE THE MILLENNIUM.

AND HOPEFULLY, A CENTURY OF PEACE AND LOVE AND GOOD FAITH IN EACH OTHER, AND A WONDERFUL WORLD.

WHAT IT NEVER HAPPENED.

AT THE TIME, THE GLOBAL CONFLICT WAS THE WAR IN THE BALKANS.

WE DEDICATED THE PIECE TO THE VICTIMS OF KOSOVO.

NOW, WHETHER IT'S UKRAINE OR WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IT'S QUITE TRAGIC.

I JUST WRITTEN A PIECE CALLED ONE WORLD WHICH TALKS ABOUT PLANET, HOW WE GOT HERE.

IT DEALS WITH ISSUES LIKE SLAVERY, POLITICIANS -- WHICH WERE GOING TO FEEL IN THE UK AND THE USA.

AND SO, IT'S QUITE DEPRESSING REALLY.

BUT IT'S WHAT I DO.

IT'S MORE THAN A LIVELIHOOD.

IT'S LIKE I'M ADDICTED TO WRITING MUSIC.

THAT'S WHAT I DO.

AND IRONICALLY, THE NEW WORK IS CALLED, ONE WORLD.

AND THE ONE MOVEMENT THAT SUMMARIZES THIS PIECE IS A SAYING IN HEBREW -- WHICH MEANS REPAIR THE WORLD.

AND THERE IS A CHANCE THAT, IT'S REALLY SAD THAT IT'S BLOWN UP IN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE ARMED MAN.

HERE YOU ARE, SOLO PIANO PERFORMANCE.

LET'S PLAY IT TO OUR VIEWERS.

♪ ♪ >> I JUST REALLY WANTED TO USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE TO WATCH HIM PLAY AND HAVE OUR AUDIENCE RESPOND AND LISTEN AS WELL.

I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION OFF OF THAT.

BUT I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR TOUR IN NEW YORK BECAUSE YOU OBSERVE MARTIN LUTHER KING IN CONCERT, MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY IN CONCERT IN NEW YORK, A MAN WHO THRIVED FOR PEACE AND EQUALITY.

TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT AND HIS LEGACY, AS EXPOSED THROUGH YOUR MUSIC.

>> IN CARNEGIE HALL, YOU MEAN?

>> YES, BUT YOU OBSERVE MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY IN CONCERT AT CARNEGIE HALL.

>> YES, IT'S MONDAY.

CARNEGIE HALL IS AN ICONIC PLACE.

I CAN'T REMEMBER MY LIST, I MEAN, OUR COVER ROOM, IT'S INCREDIBLE.

OUR CHECK COMPOSER, WHO WAS HERE -- BILLY EINSTEIN, ROLLING STONES, FRANK SINATRA.

SO, COMPOSERS, I MEAN, CONDUCTORS FOOD, BERNSTEIN, YOU KNOW, GLOBAL ICONS, AND THE MOVIE WHICH I'VE JUST SEEN.

IT'S REMARKABLE REALLY.

IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC CONCERT TOURS IN THE WORLD.

IF YOU JUDGE BY THE NUMBER OF WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME THROUGH HERE ON THIS STAGE, IT'S AN HONOR TO COME TO THIS ROOM REALLY AND PERFORM.

>> AND YET, YOU'VE NEVER LEFT YOUR WELSH ROOTS BEHIND.

OBVIOUSLY, KING CHARLES SHOWS YOUR WORK TO PERFORM AT THE CORONATION.

I WAS GONNA ASK ABOUT SOMETHING YOU'VE BEEN ASKED ABOUT BEFORE, JUST THE IDEA PERHAPS THAT WOULD YOU WERE MEGHAN MARKLE IN DISGUISE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT ANOTHER TIME.

>> WELL, THE MEGHAN MARKLE SAYING, YES.

THAT WAS A GREAT MOMENT IN MY LIFE, NOT THAT, BUT THE FACT THAT I WAS PRESIDENT OF THE CORONATION, I WROTE A MUSIC FOR IT, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE BEING PART OF HISTORY.

YOU ARE PART OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED.

AND FINALLY, I SAW THE CORONATION OF HIS MOTHER, THE QUEEN, FROM A SMALL TELEVISION, BLACK AND WHITE, 12-INCH SCREEN WHEN I WAS NINE YEARS OLD.

>> WHEN AN HONOR!

>> BACK WHEN I WAS RAISED -- YES, SO THAT HAS COME AROUND WITH ME PART OF IT.

>> WE WANT TO WISH YOU A HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

AND KEEP PLAYING, KEEP PERFORMING.

YOUR MUSIC RESONATES AROUND THE WORLD.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

WE DO WANT TO LEAVE YOU WITH THIS, THE GREAT WELLS HARPIST KATRINE FINCH, PLAYING CARL JENKINS PIECE.

GOODBYE FROM NEW YORK.

♪ ♪