>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," WITH DONALD TRUMP NOW OFFICIALLY THE FIRST PRESIDENT EVER TO BE IMPEACHED TWICE, WE'RE JOINED BY TWO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS-- ONE WHO'S BEEN THERE 45 YEARS, THE OTHER WHO'S COMING UP ON TWO WEEKS.

WE'LL BEGIN WITH THE LATTER-- CONGRESSMAN JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, WHO TOOK PART IN TODAY'S HISTORIC VOTE.

AND THEN, LATER, SENATOR ED MARKEY WILL JOIN ME ON WHAT HE EXPECTS FROM HIS COLLEAGUES IN THE DAYS AHEAD.

>> Braude: THE HOUSE MADE HISTORY TODAY, IMPEACHING A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR A SECOND TIME, CHARGING DONALD TRUMP WITH INCITEMENT OF INSURRECTION A WEEK TO THE DAY AFTER RIOTERS STORMED THE VERY BUILDING WHERE TODAY'S VOTE WAS HELD FOLLOWING HIS SPEECH.

>> AND WE KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES INCITED THIS INSURRECTION, THIS ARMED REBELLION AGAINST OUR COMMON COUNTRY.

HE MUST GO.

HE IS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO THE NATION.

>> IF WE DO NOT HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE AND REMOVE HIM FROM POWER, A FUTURE ATTEMPT COULD VERY WELL BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> Braude: BUT UNLIKE THE LAST IMPEACHMENT VOTE, WHICH WAS AN ALL-DEMOCRATIC AFFAIR, THIS TIME TEN REPUBLICANS WERE ON BOARD AS WELL, INCLUDING THE NUMBER THREE G.O.P.er IN THE HOUSE, CONGRESSWOMAN LIZ CHENEY; AND WASHINGTON CONGRESSMAN DAN NEWHOUSE, AS WELL.

>> THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ACTIONS.

THE PRESIDENT TOOK AN OATH TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

LAST WEEK, THERE WAS A DOMESTIC THREAT AT THE DOOR OF THE CAPITOL, AND HE DID NOTHING TO STOP IT.

>> Braude: SEVERAL OTHER REPUBLICANS PRIVATELY TOLD REPORTERS THEY WANTED TO VOTE IN FAVOR BUT FEARED FOR THEIR LIVES IF THEY TOOK THAT STEP.

FOR SEVERAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, TODAY'S HISTORIC VOTE ALSO MARKED THEIR FIRST SPEECH ON THE HOUSE FLOOR JUST TEN DAYS INTO THE JOB.

AMONG THEM, CONGRESSMAN JAKE AUCHINCLOSS OF NEWTON, MASSACHUSETTS.

>> A MOB DESECRATED OUR CAPITOL, KILLED A POLICE OFFICER, AND ATTEMPTED TO OVERTHROW OUR GOVERNMENT ON THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

IMMEDIATE IMPEACHMENT IS OUR DUTY UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION THAT COMPELS US TO DEFEND AGAINST ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

AS A MARINE OFFICER, I DEFENDED OUR DEMOCRACY FROM FOREIGN ENEMIES; AS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS, I AM SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DEFEND IT FROM DOMESTIC ONES.

WITH THIS VOTE, WE STRIKE A BLOW FOR MORAL LEADERSHIP.

>> Braude: CONGRESSMAN AUCHINCLOSS JOINS ME NOW.

CONGRESSMAN, WELCOME.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH ME.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME ON, JIM.

>> Braude: WITH-- AT LEAST AS OF THE MOMENT, WITH IT UNLIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE A VOTE TO CONVICT IN THE SENATE, WHY WAS THE VOTE TO IMPEACH THE RIGHT ONE TODAY, CONGRESSMAN?

>> IT'S ABOUT MORAL LEADERSHIP.

THIS PRESIDENT INCITED INSURRECTION, AND HE HAS CAPSTONED FOUR YEARS OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND DISREGARD FOR THE RULE OF LAW WITH AN ACTUAL VIOLENT ATTACK ON ANOTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

AND IF WE FAIL TO ACT, WE SET A PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS AND FOR FUTURE LEADERS THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

MORAL LEADERSHIP STARTS WITH REMOVING THIS PRESIDENT.

IT CONTINUES WITH PROTECTING THE INTEGRITY OF OUR INSTITUTIONS.

AND FINALLY IT CONCLUDES WITH RETURNING TO GOVERNANCE.

>> Braude: DO YOU WORRY THAT TODAY'S VOTE FUELS EVEN MORE ANGER FROM THE PEOPLE YOU WERE JUST DESCRIBING, CONGRESSMAN?

>> THE INCITEMENT OF ANGER HAS COME FROM THE TOP AND HAS COME FROM REPUBLICANS FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO, AS REPRESENTATIVE CHENEY SAID, SUMMONED THE MOB AND LIT THE FLAME.

AND THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO WITH THEIR BASELESS ACCUSATIONS OF A STOLEN ELECTION.

THEY ARE CULMINATING THESE FOUR YEARS WITH WHAT I THINK OF AS THE BIG LIE, THE BIG LIE OF A STOLEN ELECTION.

IT RHYMES WITH THE LOST CAUSE OF THE RECONSTRUCTION ERA, THIS CONSPIRACY THAT SOMEHOW THE REST OF THE COUNTRY HAS CONSPIRED TO-- TO STEAL WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY THEIRS.

AND WE MUST QUASH THAT, AND WE MUST NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY THE MOB THAT IT INCITES.

>> Braude: I THINK IT'S MUCH BETTER FOR THIS COUNTRY EVEN IF PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH THE OUTCOME THAT THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN VOTE, TEN REPUBLICANS AS I SAID JOINED THE VAST MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS.

HOWEVER, THE VAST MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS DID NOT VOTE THE WAY YOU DID.

WHY?

>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT WORD FROM YOUR RECITATION OF REPUBLICANS' BEHAVIOR IN THAT OPENING WAS THE WORD "PRIVATELY."

SENATOR McCONNELL HAD SAID PRIVATELY THAT HE DISAGREED WITH TRUMP AND THOUGHT THE OFFENSES WERE IMPEACHABLE.

WELL, I'M TIRED OF REPUBLICANS SPEAKING PRIVATELY ABOUT THEIR DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE PRESIDENT.

FOR FOUR YEARS, THEY HAVE BEEN PRIVATELY ADMONISHING HIM AND PUBLICLY PRAISING HIM.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR THEM TO HAVE MORAL COURAGE AND TO PUBLICLY SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM HIM BECAUSE THEIR WORDS DO MATTER.

THEIR WORDS DO AFFECT HOW THEIR CONSTITUENTS VIEW THIS ELECTION, HOW THEIR CONSTITUENTS VIEW THE PRESIDENT, AND HOW THEIR-- THEIR CONSTITUENTS VIEW THESE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS THAT WE HAD.

IT'S TIME FOR REPUBLICANS TO BE PUBLICLY IN FAVOR OF COUNTRY AND CONSTITUTION.

>> Braude: DID YOU SEE THE PIECE IN THE "DETROIT TIMES" OR READ ABOUT THE PIECE THAT REPRESENTATIVE MEIJER WROTE IN WHICH HE SAID-- RELATES TO WHAT I SAID A MINUTE AGO-- THAT HE SPOKE TO AT LEAST ONE REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUE WHO SAID HE ABSOLUTELY KNEW THAT THE VOTE TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTORATES WAS WRONG BUT HE WAS GOING TO VOTE TO CHALLENGE THEM ANYWAY FOR FEAR OF VIOLENCE BEING PERPETRATED AGAINST HIS FAMILY.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> WITH RESPECT, I DISAGREE WITH IT.

NOBODY, OF COURSE, WANTS TO SEE VIOLENCE INFLICTED ON ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL OR ANY AMERICAN WHO IS UPHOLDING THEIR LAWFUL DUTY.

BUT THIS IS A JOB THAT COMPELS MORAL COURAGE, AND WHEN YOU TAKE AN OATH TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, THERE'S NO ASTERISK FOR "WELL, UNLESS THE PRESIDENT TWEETS SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT ME OR UNLESS THERE'S A MOB WHO DISAGREES WITH ME."

THAT IS AN OATH THAT IS SOLEMN AND THAT IS ABOVE ALL ELSE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO PLAY SOMETHING FOR YOU.

MIKIE SHERRILL'S A NEW JERSEY COLLEAGUE OF YOURS, A DEMOCRAT, ALSO A VETERAN, AS ARE YOU.

SHE DID A FACEBOOK LIVE THING TALKING ABOUT SOME OF HER REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES.

HERE IS WHAT CONGRESSWOMAN SHERRILL HAD TO SAY.

>> I ALSO INTEND TO SEE THAT THOSE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO ABETTED HIM-- THOSE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO HAD GROUPS COMING THROUGH THE CAPITAL THAT I SAW ON JANUARY 5, A RECONNAISSANCE FOR THE NEXT DAY-- I'M GOING TO SEE THAT THEY ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND IF NECESSARY ENSURE THAT THEY DON'T SERVE IN CONGRESS.

>> Braude: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES.

I MEAN, ONE, THERE ARE THE 140, GIVE OR TAKE, WHO VOTED TO SUBVERT THE DEMOCRATIC OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.

THERE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CONGRESSWOMAN SHERRILL IS ALLEGING WERE CONDUCTING RECONNAISSANCE EFFORTS WITH SOME OF THE RIOTERS THE DAY BEFORE.

AND I THINK YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD THIS GUY ALI ALEXANDER, WHO WAS ONE OF THE LEAD ORGANIZERS OF THIS INSURRECTION, SAYING THAT THERE WERE THREE MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN HOUSE-- AND HE NAMED ALL THREE, INCLUDING MO BROOKS, PROBABLY THE MOST PROMINENT OF THE THREE-- WHO WORKED WITH HIM TO PLAN WHAT THEY DID ON THAT DAY.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TO THESE COLLEAGUES OF YOURS?

>> WELL, I'VE ALREADY SIGNED ON TO A LETTER CENSURING MO BROOKS AND IF NECESSARY EXPELLING HIM FOR HIS ACTIVITIES AND INCITEMENT TO POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

AND THE TOUCHSTONE HERE IS THE 14th AMENDMENT SECTION 3, WHICH MAKES CLEAR THAT THOSE WHO TAKE AN OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION AND THEN WORK TO-- TO INCITE POLITICAL VIOLENCE, TO-- TO INCITE INSURRECTION AGAINST THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, CANNOT THEN HOLD OFFICE.

AND IF WE SEE IN AN AFTER-ACTION REVIEW THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE GUILTY OF VIOLATING THE THIRD SECTION OF THE 14th AMENDMENT, THEY SHOULD BE EXPELLED.

>> Braude: WELL, ASSUMING-- I'M NOT MUCH OF AN HISTORIAN, BUT VERY FEW OF YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE EVER BEEN EXPELLED BY THEIR COLLEAGUES.

ASSUMING IT DOESN'T HAPPEN HERE, THESE PEOPLE NOT ONLY DID THE THINGS THAT AGAIN REPRESENTATIVE SHERRILL AND ALI ALEXANDER SAID, BUT AGAIN 140, GIVE OR TAKE A FEW, VOTED TO OVERTURN THE-- THE OUTCOME OF A DEMOCRATIC ELECTION.

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IF YOU DO THAT WE WON'T SEE MORE OF WHAT WE SAW LAST WEDNESDAY IF IT TURNS OUT THAT THESE REPUBLICANS CONTINUE TO STAND THEIR GROUND?

>> WELL, THEIR ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION FAILED.

AND THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ORDERLY TRANSITION OF POWER.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER AS UNFORTUNATELY THAT HAS ALREADY FAILED, BUT THERE WILL BE AN ORDERLY TRANSITION OF POWER, AND THEIR ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION HAS NOT SUCCEEDED.

AND NOW, WE NEED TO SUPPORT PRESIDENT BIDEN IN TAKING ON THIS PANDEMIC.

WE ARE FACED WITH THE WORST NATURAL DISASTER IN A CENTURY, AND WE NEED TO PUT THE FULL INSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BEHIND THE PLAN TO VACCINATE A MILLION PEOPLE A DAY FOR THE FIRST HUNDRED DAYS, TO OPEN UP THE K-12 PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND TO COMPEL MASK WEARING UNTIL WE GET CONTROL OF THIS PANDEMIC.

>> Braude: I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR HAVING COVID-19 BEING YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY AS A NEWLY ELECTED CONGRESSMAN WITH A HELL OF A FIRST TEN DAYS, I SHOULD SAY.

BUT BEFORE I DO, PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN, EVERY OTHER SENTENCE IS ABOUT UNITY AND BRINGING THE PEOPLE TOGETHER.

I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU THREE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES WHO SPEAK ABOUT THE NEED FOR UNITY.

AND BY THE WAY, ALL THREE OF THEM WERE PEOPLE WHO VOTED TO OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION.

HERE THEY ARE.

>> CONGRESS MUST BE THE GLUE THAT STARTS UNIFYING EVERYONE.

>> WE SHOULD TONE DOWN THE POLITICAL RHETORIC.

WE SHOULD WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT FACE OUR NATION.

>> WE MUST UNITE ONCE AGAIN AS AMERICANS.

I UNDERSTAND FOR SOME THIS CALL FOR UNITY MAY RING HOLLOW, BUT TIMES LIKE THESE ARE WHEN WE MUST REMEMBER WHO WE ARE AS AMERICANS AND WHAT WE AS A NATION STAND FOR.

>> Braude: THE FINAL OF THOSE THREE WAS KEVIN McCARTHY, THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS OF YOUR HOUSE.

YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THEIR CALL FOR UNITY, CONGRESSMAN?

>> THERE CANNOT BE UNITY WITHOUT JUSTICE, AND THERE CANNOT BE JUSTICE WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

UNITY RINGS HOLLOW FOR ME-- THE MINORITY LEADER IS RIGHT-- BECAUSE IT IS THE YELPS OF A PARTY THAT FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN DOING NOTHING BUT FOMENTING DIVISION, AND NOW THEY'RE TUCKING TAIL AND CALLING FOR UNITY.

WELL, OF COURSE, THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS FOR US TO UNIFY AS A COUNTRY AND TO TAKE ON OUR GREAT CHALLENGES.

BUT WE CANNOT UNIFY WITH WHITE SUPREMACISTS WHO STORM THE CAPITOL AND KILLED A POLICE OFFICER AND THREATENED OUR VERY CITADEL OF DEMOCRACY.

THERE NEEDS TO BE JUSTICE, AND FOR THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> Braude: I WANT TO RETURN, BEFORE WE LEAVE, TO YOUR COVID AGENDA.

OBVIOUSLY, NEARLY 400,000 PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN THIS COUNTRY I THINK ONE CAN SAY IN GREAT PART BECAUSE OF THE, AS I'VE CALLED IT, THE HOMICIDAL BEHAVIOR OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT ARE THE FIRST TWO OR THREE THINGS-- QUICKLY, IF YOU CAN-- THAT CONGRESS HAS TO DO TO BEGIN TO RIGHT THIS SHIP?

>> SUPPORT IN ALL WAYS NECESSARY THE PLAN TO VACCINATE A HUNDRED MILLION AMERICANS IN A HUNDRED DAYS, AND THEN ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A ROBUST TESTING STRATEGY NOT JUST IN K-12 PUBLIC SCHOOLS BUT IN NURSING HOMES AND EARLY EDUCATION, IN ALL ELEMENTS OF THE PUBLIC SQUARE BECAUSE TESTING IS GOING TO BE OUR BRIDGE TO A-- TO A SUMMERTIME IN WHICH WE START TO GET-- TO GET TOWARDS HERD IMMUNITY.

>> Braude: AND IS A RELIEF PACKAGE IN THE OFFING IN SHORT ORDER, AN ADDITIONAL RELIEF PACKAGE IN YOUR ESTIMATION, AS JOE BIDEN PROMISED?

>> THE PRESIDENT-ELECT AND HOUSE AND SENATE LEADERSHIP ARE SIGNALING THAT A NEW RELIEF PACKAGE IS GOING TO BE BROUGHT FOR DEBATE, AND I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO BE ENGAGED IN THAT, MAKING SURE THAT SMALL BUSINESSES, WORKING FAMILIES AND STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED TO GET THROUGH THIS.

>> Braude: CONGRESSMAN AUCHINCLOSS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, AND I HOPE YOUR REMAINING DAYS ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR FIRST TEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Braude: LET ME CORRECT MYSELF: EVERY DEMOCRAT VOTED TO IMPEACH.

AND, OF COURSE, CONGRESSMAN AUCHINCLOSS WASN'T THE ONLY MEMBER OF THE MASSACHUSETTS DELEGATION TO SPEAK OUT TODAY.

>> I STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY IN DISBELIEF, DISBELIEF THAT AFTER THE PRESIDENT INCITED A VIOLENT MOB TO COMMIT AN ACT OF INSURRECTION AND REMAIN SILENT AS POLICE OFFICERS WERE ASSAULTED, THE CAPITOL WAS RANSACKED, AND MEMBERS OF THIS BODY FLED FOR THEIR LIVES, THAT THERE ARE STILL MEMBERS OF HIS PARTY WHO REFUSE TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

>> EVERY MOMENT DONALD TRUMP IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, OUR NATION, OUR FREEDOM IS IN DANGER.

HE MUST BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR THE ATTACK ON OUR CAPITOL THAT HE ORGANIZED AND HE INCITED.

>> THE TRUTH IS, PRESIDENT TRUMP SPENT HIS PRESIDENCY INFLAMING HATE, WHITE SUPREMACY, ANTI- SEMITISM AND VIOLENCE.

THE TRUTH IS, HE WAS ENABLED BY ALL THOSE WHO PERPETUATED THE LIE THAT THE MOST SECURE ELECTION IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY WAS STOLEN.

AND THE TRUTH IS, A VOTE TO IMPEACH IS OUR RESOUNDING DECLARATION THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THE EARTH.

>> Braude: AND SOON, TWO MORE MEMBERS OF THE DELEGATION WILL BE FIGHTING THE SAME FIGHT-- SENATORS ELIZABETH WARREN AND ED MARKEY, THE LATTER OF WHOM JOINS ME NOW.

SENATOR, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THE HOUSE VOTE, SENATOR?

>> IT WAS A HISTORIC NECESSITY.

TRUMP HAD COMMITTED A HIGH CRIME AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

IT WAS TREASONOUS.

HE INCITED AN INSURRECTION AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT OF OUR COUNTRY, AGAINST THE CAPITOL BUILDING WHERE THE HOUSE AND SENATE SIT.

AND THERE WAS NO OPTION OTHER THAN TO VOTE TO IMPEACH HIM TODAY AND THEN TO HAVE A TRIAL IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF THE TRIAL IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE, YESTERDAY MITCH McCONNELL LEAKED TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT HE WAS HAPPY ABOUT IMPEACHMENT.

TODAY, HE ACKNOWLEDGED TO HIS OWN MEMBERS THAT HE WAS OPEN TO VOTING FOR CONVICTION, YET HE REJECTS CHUCK SCHUMER'S CALL TO MOVE UP THE TRIAL TO AS EARLY AS THIS FRIDAY.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THOSE DIFFERENT POSITIONS?

>> WELL, I'VE HAD DIFFICULTY IN MY CAREER IN RECONCILING POSITIONS THAT MITCH McCONNELL TAKES, BUT, TO THE EXTENT TO WHICH HE IS SAYING THAT HE'S OPEN TO IMPEACHMENT, THAT JUST IS A DEMONSTRATION OF HOW WEAKENED DONALD TRUMP IS WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY, HOW MANY LEADERSHIP OFFICIALS INSIDE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ARE TRYING TO CLOSE THE DOOR ON THE TRUMP ERA.

AND IT MAKES IT VERY CLEAR THAT WHEN THE DEMOCRATS BEGIN TO HAVE A TRIAL ON THE FLOOR OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE AFTER JOE BIDEN IS SWORN IN, THERE IS VERY LIKELY TO BE REPUBLICAN SUPPORT AMONGST THE SITTING SENATORS THAT WAS NOT THERE WHEN WE HAD THE IMPEACHMENT OF DONALD TRUMP JUST LAST JANUARY.

SO, I THINK WHAT McCONNELL IS SAYING IS A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE OF ATTITUDE THAT I THINK IS GETTING DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> Braude: ENOUGH OF A CHANGE THAT 17 REPUBLICANS, OR HOWEVER MANY ARE NEEDED, COULD BE THERE TO CONVICT THIS PRESIDENT?

>> I AM NOT GOING TO PREDICT WHAT HAPPENS, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE MORE EVIDENCE, THE MORE FILM, THE MORE ABSOLUTELY EYE-WATERING, DETAILED EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO WEEKS, THAT IT'S GOING TO PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON REPUBLICANS TO VOTE IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THIS MAN HAS AN HISTORICAL SCARLET LETTER OF IMPEACHMENT THAT-- THAT HAS BEEN ATTACHED TO HIM.

AND IF WE DO VOTE IN THE TRIAL TO CONVICT HIM, THAT MAKES HIM INELIGIBLE TO EVER RUN AGAIN FOR THE PRESIDENCY, AND THAT MAKES IT A WORTHWHILE ENDEAVOR.

>> Braude: WELL, I WANT TO MOVE TO THAT.

MY UNDERSTANDING, SENATOR, IS THAT UNDER THE 14th AMENDMENT, THAT VOTE IS A SEPARATE VOTE.

AND BEYOND IT BEING A SEPARATE VOTE, THERE IS SOME-- I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO LEGAL BACK AND FORTH-- SOME QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS EVEN HAVE THE POWER.

BUT YOU SUPPORT-- PUTTING ASIDE THE PROCEDURAL VEHICLE FOR THAT, YOU SUPPORT A SECOND VOTE THAT WOULD BAR TRUMP FROM EVER SEEKING FEDERAL OFFICE AGAIN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I JUST THINK HE IS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER, A THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY, TO EVERYTHING THAT WE STAND FOR.

AND WE CANNOT ALLOW THIS MAN TO HAVE FOUR ADDITIONAL YEARS.

WE CAN ALREADY SEE WHAT HE IS DOING AT THE END OF THIS TERM, WITH THE PROUD BOYS, WITH ALL OF THESE RACIST, SEXIST, MISOGYNIST ORGANIZATIONS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

HE'S TOO GREAT A THREAT TO OUR COUNTRY TO EVER ALLOW HIM TO RUN OR SERVE AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> Braude: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW HIS TOTALLY UNTRUMPIAN STATEMENT TODAY.

HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY: "IN LIGHT OF REPORTS OF MORE DEMONSTRATIONS, I URGE THAT THERE MUST BE NO VIOLENCE, NO LAW BREAKING, NO VANDALISM OF ANY KIND.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I STAND FOR.

IT'S NOT WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR.

I CALL ON ALL AMERICANS TO HELP EASE TENSIONS AND CALM TEMPERS.

THANK YOU."

WILL SOME OF YOUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES HIDE BEHIND THAT AND SAY, "THAT MITIGATES WHATEVER IT IS THAT MY FELLOW DEMOCRATS SAY HE HAS DONE," NO?

>> WELL, TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

YOU KNOW, CROCODILE TEARS AFTER THE-- AFTER THE ACTUAL EVENT THAT HE INSTIGATED, THAT HE CREATED.

AND, BY THE WAY, AIDED AND ABETTED BY CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE, WHO WERE JUST EGGING ON TRUMP AND EGGING ON ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED THE CAPITOL LAST WEEK.

SO, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I UNDERSTAND WHERE HE'S TRYING TO POSITION HIMSELF RIGHT NOW, BUT THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT WHAT HE DID IS SOMETHING THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF-- OF AMERICAN PRINCIPLES, AND THAT HE MUST BE PUNISHED AS SEVERELY AS OUR CONSTITUTION ALLOWS HIM TO BE PUNISHED.

AND NO WORDS NOW SHOULD IN ANY WAY ALLOW HIM TO BE EXCULPATED FROM THE-- FROM THE PUNISHMENT WHICH HE MUST HAVE METED OUT TO HIM FOR WHAT HE DID TO OUR COUNTRY.

>> Braude: YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE CELEBRATING THE FACT THAT THE DEMOCRATS NOW HAVE A MAJORITY, COUNTING THE TIE-BREAKING VOTE FROM KAMALA HARRIS.

BUT DO YOU NOT WORRY, SENATOR, ABOUT-- ONCE THIS TRIAL STARTS, ABOUT THE ABILITY TO CONDUCT NORMAL BUSINESS LIKE CONFIRMING NOMINATIONS, LIKE DOING A-- YET ANOTHER RELIEF PACKAGE THAT IS SO-- THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE IN SUCH DIRE NEED OF?

>> WELL, AS-- AS JOE BIDEN SAID TWO DAYS AGO, WHAT WE COULD DO IS TO JUST SPLIT THE DAY, AND HALF THE LEGISLATIVE DAY WE WOULD WORK ON HIS NOMINEES FOR CABINET POSTS, HIS LEGISLATIVE AGENDA.

AND THE OTHER HALF OF THE DAY, WE WOULD WORK ON THIS TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DO BOTH.

WE CAN'T SEPARATE OUT RESPONSIBILITIES WHICH CONSTITUTIONALLY WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DISCHARGE.

SO, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE TO DO BOTH.

WE CAN DO BOTH.

HISTORY WILL EXPECT US TO HAVE MADE DONALD TRUMP ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, SENATOR, YOU AND I AND MARGERY EAGAN TALKED ON THE RADIO THE OTHER DAY ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE SENATORS CRUZ AND HAWLEY AND WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TO THEM.

YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT CENSOR WAS APPROPRIATE.

ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES, AT LEAST-- I KNOW THAT SHERROD BROWN FROM OHIO BELIEVES REMOVAL, A VOTE TO REMOVE THEM FROM THE SENATE, IS APPROPRIATE.

WHY DO YOU CONSIDER YOUR REMEDY TO BE MORE APPROPRIATE THAN SENATOR BROWN'S?

>> WELL, I AGREE WITH SENATOR TIM KAINE THAT CENSURE IS SOMETHING THAT VERY LIKELY WE COULD FIND THE VOTES FOR.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT, TO NOT GET INTO A PROTRACTED DEBATE BUT RATHER TO ENSURE THAT THAT VOTE IS, IN FACT, CONDUCTED, AND THAT WE HAVE THE VOTES TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

I DO BELIEVE WE COULD ACTUALLY WIN REPUBLICAN VOTES FOR A CENSOR.

>> Braude: SENATOR, THERE ARE STILL SEVEN DAYS TO GO.

YOU KNOW IT AS WELL AS ANYBODY.

I KNOW ONE OF YOUR GREAT CONCERNS, AMONG OTHERS, IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP MIGHT DO WITH HIS NUCLEAR POWERS.

I KNOW THAT NANCY PELOSI REACHED OUT TO THE CHAIR OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, MILLEY, ABOUT THAT ISSUE; YOU'VE BEEN ADVOCATING AGAINST FIRST-STRIKE NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES FOREVER.

BUT OTHER THAN RELYING ON THE EXTRA LEGAL-- HOW WOULD I PUT IT?-- EXTRA LEGAL ACTIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY, WHAT ASSURANCE COULD YOU POSSIBLY GET THAT DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T DO SUCH A THING?

>> WELL, AGAIN, I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP THE-- THE HEAT HIGH ON TRUMP.

IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I WOULD HOPE THAT McCONNELL WOULD CONDUCT A TRIAL IMMEDIATELY SO WE CAN GET HIS FINGER OFF THE NUCLEAR BUTTON.

THE SOONER WE HAVE THE TRIAL IS THE SOONER HE'S RELIEVED OF THAT OPPORTUNITY.

HE'S OFF THE RAILS.

HE'S RECKLESS.

AND HE'S ABSOLUTELY A DANGER NOT ONLY TO OUR COUNTRY BUT TO THE WHOLE WORLD AS LONG AS HE IS SITTING IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

SO, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE ABSOLUTELY TRYING TO SIGNAL TO THE MILITARY, TO GENERAL MILLEY AND TO OTHERS, THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO COOPERATION WITH TRUMP.

IF HE TRIES TO USE THE NUCLEAR OPTION ON ANOTHER COUNTRY SOMEWHERE IN THE WORLD IN THESE FINAL SEVEN DAYS OF HIS PRESIDENCY, AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT AS COMPLETELY CRYSTAL CLEAR TO THE MILITARY THAT WE WANT TO SEE NO COOPERATION WITH THIS DANGEROUSLY UNHINGED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

SO, HE HAS A LOT OF AUTHORITY, BUT THE MILITARY'S IN A POSITION, IF THEY MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT THE ACT IS RECKLESS, TO NOT EXECUTE THAT ORDER.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME, SENATOR, IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS UNENDING CHAOS TO STEP BACK EVER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

I MEAN, TODAY, AS WE SIT HERE, I SAW A POLL THIS MORNING, 18% OF REPUBLICANS THINK WHAT THE RIOTERS DID THE OTHER DAY WAS APPROPRIATE.

70% OF REPUBLICANS STILL THINK THE ELECTION WAS-- WAS STOLEN FROM DONALD TRUMP.

DO YOU WORRY THAT OUR DEMOCRACY IS FAILING IN THIS COUNTRY?

OR, HONESTLY, ARE YOU HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN RETURN TO A MAYBE A PRE-TRUMP TIME OR SOMETHING WHERE WE HAVE A STABLE DEMOCRACY IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE SERIOUS DAMAGE TO OUR COUNTRY OVER FOUR YEARS.

HE HAS TRIED TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN BY MAKING AMERICA HATE AGAIN.

AND HE HAS UNEARTHED A LOT OF SUPPORT ACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR HIS POSITIONS, WHICH JUST RUN COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE BETTER ANGELS OF OUR COUNTRY'S NATURE.

AND SO, WE NOW HAVE TO BEGIN A HEALING PROCESS.

OF COURSE, HEALING BEGINS WITH ACCOUNTABILITY.

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE TRIAL OF DONALD TRUMP.

BUT AFTER THAT, WE JUST HAVE TO TRY TO CREATE BRIDGES BETWEEN EVERY PART OF OUR COUNTRY, BETWEEN POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES, BECAUSE WE CROSSED A DANGEROUS THRESHOLD LAST WEEK, AND I THINK IT'S-- MY HOPE IS HORRIFIED REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS, AS WELL AS DEMOCRATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS, SO THAT WE CAN HEAL THIS COUNTRY.

THERE'S UNFORTUNATELY TOO MUCH ACRIMONY, TOO MUCH BITTERNESS IN OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW AS TRUMP TRIED TO REACH BACK NOSTALGICALLY FOR A TIME THAT NEVER EXISTED.

WE NOW HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH HOPE SO THAT-- ESPECIALLY AS WE APPROACH MARTIN LUTHER KING'S BIRTHDAY SO THAT AS THAT GREAT MAN SAID, IT IS NOT HATE THAT DRIVES OUT HATE.

IT IS LOVE THAT DRIVES OUT HATE.

AND WE HAVE TO TRY TO BECOME A MORE LOVING NATION SO THAT WE CAN HEAL THIS INCREDIBLE WOUND WHICH DONALD TRUMP HAS INFLICTED UPON OUR COUNTRY.

>> Braude: I HOPE YOUR HOPES ARE REALIZED, SENATOR MARKEY.

THANK YOU MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Braude: SUPREME COURT JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS IS WIDELY KNOWN FOR HIS SILENCE ON THE BENCH.

AT ONE POINT HE, WENT TEN YEARS WITHOUT ASKING A SINGLE QUESTION.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO HIS WIFE, WELL, AS THEY SAY, OPPOSITES ATTRACT, AND WHAT SHE'S BEEN SAYING IS STARTING TO RAISE SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE JUSTICE'S IMPARTIALITY.

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW HER, GINNI THOMAS IS A CAREER REPUBLICAN LOBBYIST AND STEADFAST TRUMP SUPPORTER WHO PEDDLES FRINGE RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY THEORIES ON SOCIAL MEDIA IN HER SPARE TIME.

JUST LAST WEEK, ON THE MORNING INSURRECTIONISTS STORMED THE CAPITOL, THOMAS POSTED HER SUPPORT FOR THE MOVEMENT ON FACEBOOK, WRITING: "LOVE MAGA PEOPLE!," AND "GOD BLESS EACH OF YOU STANDING UP OR PRAYING!"

BUT THINK ABOUT IT: THE WIFE OF A SITTING SUPREME COURT JUSTICE BRAZENLY SUPPORTED A RALLY DEMANDING TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION!

RESULTS, WHICH AS RECENTLY AS A FEW DAYS AGO, ARE STILL BEING CONTESTED BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT ON WHICH, ONCE AGAIN, HER HUSBAND SITS.

AND THIS ISN'T GINNI THOMAS' FIRST DIVE INTO THE DEEP END OF THE CONSPIRACY POOL.

"SLATE'S" MARK JOSEPH STERN COMPILED A LIST OF HER FACEBOOK POSTS, INCLUDING UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS OF CORRUPTION BY BIDEN, FALSE THEORIES THAT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION SPIED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, AND A NONEXISTENT GEORGE SOROS-LED COUP TO OUST TRUMP WITH CLAIMS SOROS HAS BEEN "TRAINING HIS FAMILY TO CARRY ON HIS EVIL LEGACY."

BUT, WHILE HER SPREADING OF SUCH LIES IS PROBLEMATIC, IT'S HER ADVOCACY THAT CAUSES THE REAL ISSUES FOR HER HUSBAND.

IN 2009, SHE FOUNDED A CONSERVATIVE LOBBYING GROUP CALLED LIBERTY CENTRAL WHICH, ACCORDING TO N.P.R.

AND "THE NATION," RAILED AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S "HARD LEFT AGENDA," INCLUDING OBAMACARE.

AS YOU MAY RECALL, THE SUPREME COURT UPHELD THE LEGALITY OF THE A.C.A., BUT CLARENCE THOMAS DISSENTED.

AND IN 2019, GINNY THOMAS WAS AMONG A GROUP THAT MET WITH TRUMP AND PUSHED FOR A BAN ON WOMEN AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE SERVING IN THE MILITARY.

RIGHT AROUND THAT TIME, THE SUPREME COURT LIFTED TWO LOWER COURT ORDERS THAT BLOCKED TRUMP'S BAN ON TRANSGENDER PEOPLE SERVING IN THE MILITARY.

NOW, THOSE ARE JUST TWO OF MANY EXAMPLES OF CASES THOMAS HAS HEARD ON ISSUES ON WHICH HIS WIFE HAS LOBBIED, NOT TO MENTION THE ELECTION CHALLENGES-- ALL ISSUES ON WHICH HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL.

FOR THE RECORD, THE JUDICIAL ETHICS CODE SAYS A FEDERAL JUDGE SHOULD RECUSE HIMSELF IN ANY PROCEEDING IN WHICH THE JUDGE'S SPOUSE HAS "AN INTEREST THAT COULD BE SUBSTANTIALLY AFFECTED BY THE OUTCOME OF THE PROCEEDING" OR "IN WHICH THE JUDGE'S IMPARTIALITY MIGHT BE REASONABLY QUESTIONED."

NOW, IF NONE OF THIS SOUNDS REASONABLY QUESTIONABLE, THEN, FRANKLY, I DON'’’T KNOW WHAT DOES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

EMAIL US, TWEET US, SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

TOMORROW, CONGRESSMAN JIM McGOVERN JOINS ME.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org