>> Rooney: I'M EMILY ROONEY.

WELCOME TO "BEAT THE PRESS."

OUR TOPICS: SOME D.C. RALLY GOERS CRY FOUL AFTER BEING CALLED OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT IS EVERYONE FAIR GAME?

SOME MEDIA CRITICS SAY THE PRESS WASN'T TOUGH ENOUGH ON TRUMP AND FAILED TO DO THEIR JOBS; AND ANNA WINTOUR ON THE DEFENSE AGAIN, THIS TIME OVER "VOGUE'S" KAMALA HARRIS COVER.

PLUS, OUR PANEL'S RANTS AND RAVES OF THE WEEK.

JOINING ME ARE: LYLAH ALPHONSE OF THE "BOSTON GLOBE;" FORMER CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT DAN LOTHIAN; JON KELLER OF WBZ NEWS; AND CALLIE CROSSLEY OF GBH NEWS.

>>> FIRST UP, AFTER THE ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL, THE MEDIA'S BEEN WORKING HARD TO FIND OUT WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT.

IN MANY CASES, THEY'VE FOLLOWED THE LEAD OF FREELANCE SLEUTHS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

NOW THOUGH, SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE SINGLED OUT ARE CRYING FOUL, RAISING THE QUESTION: IS EVERYONE FAIR GAME WHETHER THEY COMMITTED A CRIME OR NOT?

ADAM REILLY HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: AS THE PRESS AND THE PUBLIC HOME IN ON ATTACKERS' IDENTITIES, THEY HAVE A TREASURE TROVE OF LEADS TO WORK WITH, BECAUSE AS A GROUP, THE RIOTERS JUST WEREN'T THAT BRIGHT.

>> "L.O.L.

TO ANYONE WHO'S CONCERNED ABOUT THE PICTURE OF ME GOING AROUND.

SORRY, I HATE FREEDOM?."

>> WE DID BREAK DOWN NANCY PELOSI'S OFFICE DOOR.

>> Reporter: NAVISTAR DIRECT MARKETING FIRED THIS MAN, SHOWN INSIDE THE U.S. CAPITOL WEARING HIS WORK I.D.

BADGE.

>> Reporter: AND IN SOME CASES, IF THE ATTACKERS DIDN'T I.D.

THEMSELVES, OTHER PEOPLE DID IT FOR THEM.

>> CALLING HER MOM OUT ON TWITTER WITH THESE SIDE BY SIDE PHOTOS.

>> Reporter: BUT THE MEDIA HAVEN'T JUST FOCUSED ON RIOTERS WHO ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE OR BREACHED THE CAPITOL BUILDING.

THEY'VE ALSO TURNED THE SPOTLIGHT ON PROTESTERS WHO MAY NOT HAVE BROKEN ANY LAW.

>> I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG, EXCEPT I'M GUILTY OF STUPIDITY.

>> Reporter: NATE NICKERSON, THE OWNER OF AN EASTHAM SEAFOOD SHACK, WAS INITIALLY MISIDENTIFIED AS ANOTHER MAN WHO WORE A "CIVIL WAR" SWEATSHIRT TO THE PROTEST.

NICKERSON SAYS HE WAS THERE, BUT DIDN'T ENGAGE IN ANY VIOLENCE.

>> I'VE BEEN CALLED A DOMESTIC TERRORIST, HITLER.

>> Reporter: AND IN CHICAGO, A RETIRED FIREFIGHTER WHO WASN'T EVEN IN D.C. WAS MISIDENTIFIED AS ONE OF THE ATTACKERS.

ANOTHER REMINDER THAT TWITTER AND FACEBOOK SHOULDN'T BE OUR -- ARE TOOLS BUT DON'T ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH.

>> Rooney: WELL, DAN, I'M A LITTLE BIT UPSET, THAT ANYBODY, OPEN SPACE THEY'RE YOU KNOW THE MEDIA IS ALLOWED TO TAKE THEIR PICTURES.

IF THEY WERE MISIDENTIFIED, GEE I'M REALLY SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND THERE'S A GUILT BY ASSOCIATION THING GOING ON HERE TOO.

ANYBODY WHO'S THERE THEY'RE PRESUMED TO HAVE BEEN PART OF THE MOB.

>> RIGHT.

>> Rooney: AND THE MEDIA HAS DONE A VERY RESPONSIBLE JOB SINGLING OUT WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT.

FAIR GAME I SAY.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK ANY TIME YOU PUT YOURSELF OUT INTO A PUBLIC SPACE WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO BE DOING SOMETHING PEACEFUL OR WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO BE ACTING OUT THERE HAS TO BE THIS LEVEL OF EXPECTATION THAT IT MAY BE CAUGHT ON VIDEO AND MAY BE USED AGAINST YOU.

NOW HAVING SAID THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY OUT THERE FULLY UNDERSTANDS RAMIFICATION OF GOING OUT AND BEING CAUGHT ON VIDEO.

THEY'RE SO EXCITED ABOUT THE EVENT, WHIPPED UP ABOUT THE EVENT, THAT'S THEIR FOCUS RIGHT?

WHETHER IT'S JUST TO BE OUT THERE IN PROTEST OR WHETHER IT'S TO DO MORE THAT'S THEIR SINGLE FOCUS.

THEY'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND THEM OR THEY WOULDN'T BE WEARING I.D.

'S, OR THEY WOULDN'T BE WEARING SHIRTS WITH THE NAME OF THEIR COMPANIES ON THEM.

BUT I THINK MEDIA, THE JOB IS TO GO OUT THERE AND COVER WHATEVER IS DOING WHATEVER THEY ARE DOING.

WHETHER IT IS PEACEFUL OR NOT, IF YOU PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE, IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT AMPLIFY YOUR MESSAGE.

>> DON'T GO TO THE PUBLIC EVENTS, DON'T BLAME THE MEDIA FOR TELLING PEOPLE OR SHOWING A INDIVIDUAL OWE OR -- VIDEO THAT YOU WERE AT THE EVENTS.

I THINK IN THIS CASE WHAT WAS EVEN MORE PROBLEMATIC WAS THIS PARTICULAR EVENT WAS ABOUT CHANGING THE RESULTS OF A FAIR AND FREE ELECTION.

THE ASSOCIATION IS THERE EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE COMPLETELY PEACEFUL STILL HAS SOME CONSEQUENCES.

ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS OWNER, A POSITION OF POWER, FIRE, POLICE, WHATEVER, ATTENTION, THE DANGER IS ASSUMING EVERYONE AT THIS EVENT WAS ALSO COMMITTING SOME SORT OF UNLAWFUL ACT.

IT WAS A RALLY THAT TURNED INTO A RIOT AND INTO A BREACH OF THE CAPITOL.

NOT EVERYONE WHO WENT TO THE RALLY PART AT ONE END OF THE WASHINGTON MALL PARTICIPATED IN THE VIOLENCE AT THE OTHER END OF THE MALL.

AND I THINK IF THE MEDIA IS CALLING PEOPLE OUT FOR DOING ONE THING THAT THEY DIDN'T DO, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN JUST SAYING YOU WERE THERE.

>> YEAH, SHAME ON THE JERKS WHO ARE HARASSING MR. NICKERSON THERE THE SEAFOOD STORE OWNER CALLING HIM A NAZI AND STUFF.

THAT'S RIDICULOUS BUT, I DON'T KNOW HIM, THAT'S ABOUT INDIFFERENT, SHAME ON NICKER SON WHO ACKNOWLEDGES HE IS, GUILTY OF, I DON'T KNOW, GROSS STEW PID DID I FOR NOT ONLY SHOWING UP AT THIS RALLY, KEEP IN MIND THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO SURPRISE ABOUT WHAT THE NATURE OF THIS RALLY MIGHT BE.

SET AGO SIDE THE STORMING OF THE CAPITOL.

THERE HAD BEEN RALLIES IN MID DECEMBER AND MID NOVEMBER THAT WAS DUMPSTER FIRES OF FAR RIGHT-WING VIOLENCE AND SORT OF MOB BE-LIKE BEHAVIOR.

NOT LIKE WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK.

BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEN HE CALLS UP HOWEIE CARR AND WAS BRAGGING ABOUT HOW FUN IT WAS.

WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF ROUGH JUSTICE HERE.

>> OH HOW I WISH SUCH CARE SUCH THOUGHT SUCH CONCERN SUCH TEETH GNASHING WOULD BE HAPPENING, IN BLACK LIVES MATTER, PEACEFUL PROTESTERS.

AND YET THEY WOULD BE BROAD BRUSHED BY THE PEOPLE DOING THE RIOTING AND THE PLOOTDING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY.

TO THE POINT THAT THERE WAS THIS YOUNG WOMAN WHO STOOD ON THE STREET AND POINTED TO THE WHITE KIDS KNOCKING IN THE WINDOWS AND SAY, SEE, THIS IS THE STUFF WE WILL BE ACCUSED OF DOING.

JUST SAYING.

OKAY, WHAT GETS ME THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IF THEY WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT CONSEQUENCES.

SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES OF THIS MOB BEHAVIOR.

PEOPLE ARE DEAD.

SO THERE NEEDS TO BE ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO, EXACTLY, AND BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT IT, IS RESPONSIBLE.

>> Rooney: CALLIE DID YOU THINK SOME OF THOSE PROTESTORS KNEW THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED IN A SENSE THE WAY THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PEOPLE WERE NOT?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY!

I MEAN THE DOORS WERE OPENED.

RIGHT NOW AS YOU KNOW THERE IS A CONGRESS PERSON WHO IS LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS SOME INSIDE CONNECTION.

>> Rooney: RIGHT.

>> SO YEAH.

NO.

AND BY THE WAY IT WAS EXPRESSED TO THEM THE MOMENT THEY WERE THERE, NOTHING WAS HAPPENING.

THERE WEREN'T PEOPLE LINED IN THE STREETS WITH GAS MASKS ON SO WHY WOULDN'T THEY BELIEVE IT?

>> Rooney: I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL AS THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY WINDS DOWN, AND EVERYONE FROM CONGRESS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO THE PRESS TRIES TO CLEAN UP THE MESS, AN OLD THEORY HAS RESURFACED-- THAT THE MEDIA'S FAILURE TO FORCEFULLY CALL OUT AND CONDEMN TRUMP OVER THESE PAST FOUR YEARS IS PART OF HOW WE GOT HERE.

FROM THE DAY HE RODE DOWN THAT YOU ESCALATOR TO ANNOUNCE HIS CANDIDACY, MEDIA SCOLDS WERE WARNING THE PRESS NOT TO TAKE THE BAIT.

NOW, ONE PRESIDENTIAL TERM LATER, SOME MEDIA COMMENTATORS SAY THE FURY OF THE LAST FOUR YEARS WAS ALL AVOIDABLE.

>> DONALD TRUMP AND HIS MOB SUCCEEDED IN GETTING THIS FAR BECAUSE WE, THE MEDIA, FAILED.

WE FAILED YOU.

>> Rooney: THAT'S NBC PEACOCK HOST MEHDI HASAN SAYING THE MEDIA TOOK TRUMP'S BLOVIATING, RACISM, AND NONCONFORMITY IN STRIDE.

>> IT WAS CLEAR THAT WE SHOULDN'T NORMALIZE HIM, BUT WE DID.

WE GAVE HIM A PASS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

>> Rooney: THE "WASHINGTON POST'S" MARGARET SULLIVAN AGREES, WRITING, "DECISION-MAKERS TOOK YEARS TO ALLOW THE WORDS 'RACIST' OR 'LIE' ABOUT TRUMP, AND JOURNALISTS ALLOWED HIM TO PLAY ASSIGNMENT EDITOR BY PIVOTING TO MAGNIFY HIS INSULTS OR DISTRACTIONS."

REALLY?

I DON'T REMEMBER OMOST MEDIA OUTLETS BEING THAT RELUCTANT.

EVERY NON-CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST IN THE COUNTRY HAS WRITTEN ABOUT TRUMP'S RACISM AND LACK OF MORALITY, AND SOME WEREN'T SHY ABOUT CALLING HIM A LIAR OR MAKING STUFF UP.

>> IT'S BEEN A BUSY DAY FOR PRESIDENTIAL STATEMENTS DIVORCED FROM REALITY.

YOU'RE CONCOCTING A NATIONAL EMERGENCY HERE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR WALL?

>> AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY YOU CAN TEST TOO MUCH.

YOU DO KNOW THAT?

>> WHO SAYS THAT?

>> READ THE BOOKS, READ THE MANUALS.

>> WHAT BOOKS, WHAT MANUALS?

>> READ THE BOOKS.

>> Rooney: OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS, THE MEDIA WAS UNIFORMLY OUTRAGED OVER TRUMP'S COMMENTS AND ACTIONS ON EVERYTHING FROM CHARLOTTESVILLE, TO KIDS IN CAGES AT THE BORDER, TO HIS "SPECIAL PEOPLE" WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL.

I'D ARGUE IT WAS THE TRUTH TELLERS THAT GAVE FUEL TO TRUMP'S ENABLERS, NOT A LACK OF THEM.

SO JON.

I REALLY BELIEVE THE LOUDER THE MEDIA SPOKE, THE MORE THEY CALLED OUT TRUMP, THE MORE CRITICISM THEY GAVE HIM IT REALLY ENCOURAGED AND FOMENTED HIS BASE.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE.

I LISTEN TO MEHDI HASSAN.

BUT THAT'S A GROSS EXAGGERATION THAT THE MEDIA HAS FAILED.

AND HE'S SAYING IT'S MOSTLY JOURNALISTS OF CLOFER CLOFER WHO NUDE WHAT TRUMP WAS ABOUT.

I DON'T BUY THAT EITHER.

FOUR YEARS AGO WAS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TERM SO I'M JUST NOT BUYING IT.

IT'S A NICE THEORY BUT I THINK MARGARET SULLIVAN'S WRONG, TOO.

>> YES, I NORMALLY DON'T DISAGREE WITH MARGARET SULLIVAN BUT THIS TIME I DO.

I HAVE LITTLE TO ADD TO YOUR ANALYSIS OTHER THAN TO POINT OUT A COUPLE OF QUICK THINGS.

CNN, WHICH WAS PROBABLY THE LEADING MAINSTREAM MEDIA CULPRIT IN GETTING INTO BED WITH TRUMP DURING THE CAMPAIGN, THANK YOU, ZUCKER FOR ALL YOUR GIFTS TO OUR DEMOCRACY, CARRIED HIS RALLIES ENDLESSLY ON END.

THEY EVOLVED TO A POINT WHERE PRIME TIME ON CNN WHICH WAS GENERALLY AN OASIS OF FAIRLY STRAIGHT-AHEAD REPORTING IS NOW ONE HOST AFTER ANOTHER IS TEEING OFF AT TRUMP.

IN GREAT DETAIL, THEY DROP TO SICK FANTSSYCOPHANTS.

IT WAS A GOAD OING ON OF REAL TRUMPKINS, THE MORE THE MEDIA CAME OUT AND SAID HE WAS THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, HE'S DOING THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER THING, THE MORE EXCITED THEY GOT.

THEY EXIST NOT IN A UNIVERSE DRIVEN BY POLICY BUT IN A WORLD DRIVEN BY GRIEVANCE.

AND THE LAME STREAM MEDIA ANTIPATHY, IS ALL THEY NEED TO EMBRACE IT.

>> I DO THINK THERE HAS BEEN FAILURE ON THE PART OF NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AND THE KEY WORD I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT WHAT JON JUST MENTIONED IS THEY EVOLVED.

SPEAKING ABOUT CNN.

ICKYOU KNOW, FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS, IT WAS EVERY TIME HE TWEETED SOMETHING IT WAS CARRIED.

EVERY TIME HE DID AN EVENT THEY WOULD CARRY THESE EVENTS LIVE.

THEY CURTAILED A LOT OF THAT BUT WE CARRY THIS DISINFORMATION OR ATTACK ON THE MEDIA FROM THE BEGINNING TO SORT OF THE MIDDLE OR MAYBE TO THE THIRD YEAR OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.

AND I BELIEVE THAT NEWS ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD HAVE STARTED APPLYING THE BRAKES MUCH SOONER.

YOU KNOW MAYBE NOT CARRYING THOSE PRESS CONFERENCES OR LIVE EVENTS WALL TO WALL BUT JUST DIPPING IN WHEN THERE WAS SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE.

MAYBE NOT HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE REACTIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, AND THE BACK AND FORTHWITH REPORTERS.

JUST EMBOLDENING THEM AND FEEDING THIS FRENZY THAT HAD SPILLED OVER INTO SOCIAL MEDIA.

I WON'T SAY THAT LOOK HAD EVERYBODY BEEN RESPONSIBLE FROM DAY 1 THAT THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED BUT I DO THINK THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN TEMPERED IF WE DIDN'T JUMP IN WITH ALL OF THIS COVERAGE FULL TIME 24-7 FOR SO LONG IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

>> ALL RIGHT SO I'M GOING TO ECHO DAN BECAUSE I SAT IN THIS CHAIR FOR A LONG TIME AND WE DEBATED WHETHER WE COULD SAY LIE.

YES WE DID.

AND THAT WAS EARLY-ON.

IT TOOK A COUPLE OF YEARS BEFORE THAT GOT TO BE SOMETHING THAT A JOURNALIST FELT LIKE THEY COULD SAY.

EVEN LOOKING AT THE FACTS OF IT ALL.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

AND THE SECOND THING IS I'VE BEEN SITTING IN THIS CHAIR SAYING THIS FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CARRY EVERYTHING THE MAN SAYS.

WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF OUTLETS, TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT HE HELD THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENCY, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ATTENDED TO THOSE EVENTS IN WHICH HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRESIDENTIAL AND MAKE SURE THAT WE PAID ATTENTION TO THAT AND GOT THAT OUT THERE.

BUT ALL THE REST OF THAT STUFF, THE QUANTITY OF IT, NO.

WE DID NOT HAVE TO DO THAT.

THAT'S THE FAILURE.

AND SO IT MEANS, EMILY, THAT EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS SOME VERY GOOD JOURNALISTS AND JOURNALISM DONE AND CALLING OUT THESE THINGS, IT REALLY AMOUNTED TO A DROP IN THE BUCKET WHEN YOU STARTED ADDING UP THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF COVERAGE DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

YOU KNOW WHAT'S BEEN FABULOUS, THE LAST FEW DAYS, NO COVERAGE OF THE TWEETS.

IT'S BEEN SILENCE.

>> Rooney: IT HAS BEEN FABULOUS.

GO AHEAD LYLAH.

>> I REMEMBER THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT DO WE USE THE WORD LIE, DO WE ASCRIBE INTENT TO A PERSON'S WORDS.

THERE IS A LOT OF THOUGHT TO THE PROCESS OF HOW WE DESCRIBE THESE THINGS BUT LITTLE THOUGHT TO WHAT WE ARE ACTUALLY THROWING UP ON AIR.

I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR THAT THE MEDIA IS TO BLAME, DID WE ENABLE CLINTON OR BUSH OR REAGAN OR ANY OTHER CHARISMATIC LEADER THAT WE HAVE HAD BY SAYING OR F SHOWING WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

I THINK THAT BROADCAST MEDIA ESPECIALLY HAS EVOLVED TO FOCUS MORE ON CONFIRMATION THAN IT DOES ON INFORMATION.

WE TENDED TO PRESENT SOUND BITES THAT PROVOKE OUTRAGE BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE TUNED IN.

AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S SELF SERVING IN A LOT OF WAYS.

AND I'VE SAID IT BEFORE.

OUTRAGE IS CLIQUEY.

SO PEOPLE FOCUSED ON THE OUTRAGE.

WHICHEVER SIDE OF THE AISLE IT WAS COMING FROM.

>> Rooney: EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS OUTRAGEOUS THAT'S THE REASON THE MEDIA HAD TO COVER IT.

>> THE REASON FOR HIS ACTIONS ARE HIM.

>> Rooney: AS IF THE COUNTRY DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH CONTROVERSY, ENTER "VOGUE" MAGAZINE.

ITS FEBRUARY COVER FEATURES VICE-PRESIDENT ELECT KAMALA HARRIS, AND WHILE "VOGUE'S" EDITOR IN CHIEF, ANNA WINTOUR, DESCRIBES THE PHOTO AS "CHARMING" AND "REAL," OTHERS FIND IT OFFENSIVE.

LAST SUMMER, CONDE NAST, THE PARENT COMPANY OF "VOGUE," AND ITS EDITOR-IN-CHIEF ANNA WINTOUR, CAME UNDER FIRE FOR DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES AT THE MAGAZINE-- SOMETHING WINTOUR TOLD "THE NEW YORK TIMES" EARLIER THIS MONTH, THEY ARE COMMITTED TO FIXING.

>> WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS, I THINK, A LOT OF VERY POSITIVE CHANGE.

>> Rooney: IN THAT INTERVIEW WITH THE "TIMES'" "SWAY" PODCAST, WINTOUR ALSO GAVE A SNEAK PEEK OF "VOGUE'S" FEBRUARY COVER: THIS NOW-LEAKED IMAGE OF VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT KAMALA HARRIS WEARING A BLACK PANTSUIT AND CONVERSE SNEAKERS.

HERE'S HOW WINTOUR DESCRIBED IT.

>> THE COVER ITSELF IS SO CHARMING AND SO RELAXED AND, FOR ME, SO SURPRISING AND SO REAL.

>> Rooney: BUT AFTER THE COVER LEAKED, THERE WAS A BARRAGE OF NEGATIVE COMMENTS ABOUT THE CASUAL DRESS, THE DRAPE COLORS AND THE LIGHTING.

A SECOND, MORE FORMAL PHOTOGRAPH APPEARS INSIDE THE MAGAZINE.

WHEN "SWAY" FOLLOWED UP WITH WINTOUR ABOUT THE CRITICISM, SHE OFFERED THIS: >> IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NOT OUR INTENTION TO, IN ANY WAY, DIMINISH THE IMPORTANCE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT'S INCREDIBLE VICTORY.

>>> WINTOUR ALSO EXPLAINED THAT TYLER MITCHELL, AN AFRICAN AMERICAN PHOTOGRAPHER, CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF USING PINK AND GREEN, THE COLORS OF HARRIS' SORORITY AT HOWARD.

WINTOUR SAID MITCHELL ALSO DID THIS COVER PORTRAIT OF BEYONCEÉ.

STILL, IF GAL GODOT, SERENA HE WILLIAMS, MICHELLE OBAMA OR A.O.C.

WAS WEARING CONVERSE SNEAKERS FOR THEIR SHOOTS, WE'LL NEVER KNOW.

ALL RIGHT CALLIE I'M DYING FOR YOUR TAKE ON THIS AS OUR RESIDENT CULTURE EDITOR.

I MEAN I MUCH PREFER THE SHOT THAT THEY USED.

I HATED THAT GREEN AND PINK, I MEAN THAT IS HOWARD UNIVERSITY, SORORITY'S PROBLEMS.

THEY'RE UGLY COLORS.

I LOVED THE PANT SUIT, THE TIGHT-FITTING PANTS.

I DIDN'T MIND THE SNEAKERS, I LOVED THE PEARLS, I NOT THE ROBIN'S EGG BLUE SHOOT WAS OVERLY STUFFY, WASN'T HER.

WAS IT FLATTERING, NO BUT THAT WAS THE BETTER PICTURE IN MY MIND, GO.

>> THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS.

LET ME BEGIN THERE ANNA WINTOUR, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

WE IN THE ROOM, WHO WAS IN THE ROOM?

TO ADD SOME SOUTHERLY CONTEXT TO THIS WHICH WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU IF THERE WERE 15 COVERS OF VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WHO WERE PEOPLE OF COLOR, AND THIS TIME THEY WENT ABOUT THE SNEAKERS, I GOT YOU.

THIS IS THE ONLY ONE.

HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT HER POSITION, SHE IS REALLY VICE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

SHE SHOULD HAVE HAD THE POWER SUIT ON THE COVER.

>> Rooney: THE BLACK SUIT?

>> NO, THE POWER SUIT, THE BLUE SUIT WHERE SHE'S FOLDED HER ARMS IN POSITION OF SOMEONE WHO IS VICE COMMANDSER IN CHIEF.

THE OTHER ONE IS TOO CASUAL.

I LOVE IT FOR THE INSIDE BUT IT WAS NOT THE COVER.

THEN DO NOT ANNA WINTOUR IMPLY THAT BECAUSE TYLER THE BLACK PHOTOGRAPHER DID THE SHOOT THAT SOMEHOW HE GOT TO MAKE THE DECISION.

NO THAT WAS YOU, YOU MADE THE DECISION, OKAY?

>> Rooney: ALL RIGHT.

I LIKE THE OTHER ONE.

GO AHEAD.

>> I THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT KAMALA HARRIS PICKED OUT HER OWN CLOTHES FOR THESE PHOTO SHOOTS.

THOSE WERE THE CLOTHES SHE CHOSE.

BUT THE OTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME IS ANNA WINTOUR SAID IT WAS CHARMING AND RELAXED.

WHEN HAS VOGUE EVER BEEN ABOUT CHARMING AND RELAXED?

IT'S ABOUT POWER AND SETTING TRENDS.

THE PHOTO TO ME WHEN I SAW IT, I THOUGHT OKAY I THINK THEY FELT THEY HAD TO PUT HER ON THE COVER SO THEY WHIPPED SOMETHING TOGETHER BUT IT HAD THIS AURA THAT SHE SHOULD BE PROUD THAT SHE WAS SELECTED TO BE ON THE COVER NOT SO MUCH THAT WE ARE PROUD TO PUT HER ON THE COVER.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE IMPLICATION THAT REALLY SITS WRONG WITH ME.

IF SHE WORE CONVERSE THROUGHOUT HER CAMPAIGN, I LOVE CONVERSE, I KICKED OFF A PAIR EARLIER TODAY.

I DON'T CARE THAT SHE WORE CONVERSE ON THE COVER.

I CARE THAT THE COVER FELT LIKE IT WAS AN OBLIGATION RATHER THAN AN INNOVATION.

>> Rooney: ALL RIGHT.

GUYS.

>> I'M NOT REALLY A NEUTRAL ARBITER ON THIS ONE BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS FELT THE HIGH FASHION WORLD WAS HORSEMAN YOU'RE, WITH APOLOGIES TO MR. ED, NO DISRESPECT INTENDED.

AND THIS HARKENS BACK, THIS WHOLE EPISODE IF YOU WILL, TO GEORGE MAGAZINE.

REMEMBER THAT BACK IN THE EARLY '90s.

POOR JOHN F. KENNEDY JUNIOR'S MISBE GOING MERGING OF POP CULTURES GARBAGE WITH POLITICS.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, I SUPPOSE SHE COOPERATED WITH THE SHOOT.

SHE IS SAID TO HAVE LIKED THE PICTURE.

>> Rooney: YES.

>> THAT'S TO ME AN ERROR OF JUDGMENT HERE.

SHE'S A HISTORY-MAKING SERIOUS PERSON WHO MAY VERY WELL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE OR FITTING.

I AGREE WITH CALLIE.

>> IT'S A LITTLE DANGEROUS FOR ME AS A MALE TO WADE INTO WATERS, ANALYZING THE ENTIRE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT ELECT.

BUT NONETHELESS THAT'S THE TASK AT HAND HERE AND I HAVE TO ADMIT WHEN I FIRST SAW THE PHOTO I THOUGHT I.T.

WAS PHOTO SHOPPED.

I WAS SHOCKED.

I THOUGHT IT WAS TOO CASUAL FOR THAT MAGAZINE AND TOO CASUAL FOR THE MOMENT.

I WOULD HAVE MUCH RATHER SEEN THE MORE TRADITIONAL LOOK, I THINK THAT'S PERHAPS MY GENERAL TASTE BUT I THINK FOR THE OFFICE FOR THIS MOMENTUM MOMENTOUS MOMENT.

IF WE ARE GOING INTO A SITUATION LIKE THAT AND I WANT THE MORE TRADITIONAL PHOTO TO BE USED THEN THOSE ARE THE ONLY PHOTOS YOU'RE GOING TO GET, RIGHT?

I'LL SAY YOU KNOW WHAT IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS COME BACK AND PUT ME ON THE COVER AGAIN IN A MORE CASUAL LOOK OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.

IF YOU ALLOW THEM TO HAVE CHOICES THEY'LL TAKE THOSE CHOICES NO MATTER WHAT THEY TELL THE YOU THEY'RE GOING TO USE SO I WOULD HAVE GONE WITH TRADITIONAL, TRADITIONAL ONLY AND THAT IS ALL THEY WOULD HAVE HAD.

>> Rooney: ONE QUICK NOTE, ANNA WINTOUR SAID IN THAT INTERVIEW, BEFORE THAT CAME OUT, SHE CONTINUE IMAGINE ANYONE WOULD OBJECT.

>>> OKAY TIME NOW FOR -- THE WHOLE SHOW HAS BEEN RANTS AND RAVES, BUT RANTS AND RAIFERS STARTING WITH YOU JON.

>> I HAVE A RAVE, A MEGA-RAVE, I'M GOING TO BUTCHER HIS NAME, IGOR BOBICK, POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE HUFFINGTON POST, ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE AT THE CAPITOL, THAT IS EUGENE GIBSON, THE CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER WHO HEROICALLY KEPT THE ZOMBIES AT BAY, SEE THE ZOMBIE FOLLOWING HIM?

RIGHT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO SEE LOOKS DOWN THE HALL, HE SEES THE DOORS TO THE SENATE CHAMBER ARE WIDE OPEN.

AND HE DUPES THE IDIOT INTO FOLLOWING HIM THE OTHER WAY UNDOUBTEDLY SAVING LIVES HERE.

BUT BOBICK LOOK HOW CLOSE HE IS TO WHAT'S GOING ON, LOOK HOW STEADILY HE IS HOLDING HIS IPHONE.

THE CINENMATOGRAPHY IS WORTHY OF A GREAT MOVIE.

>> Rooney: AGREE.

LYLAH.

>> CONSUME.

I HAVE A RAVE FOR PROPUBLICA.

FOR JOSHUA AROUNDS JOAQUIN SAPIEN.

WHO WROTE AN ARTICLE ABOUT BLACK OFFICERS IN THE CAPITOL, THEY CONNECTED TO PERHAPS WHY WHITE SUPREMACISTS WERE ABLE TO STORM THE CAPITOL.

IT IS A HARROWING LEAD THAT TAKES A DEEP DIVE INTO THE GROUP BUT WELL WORTH YOUR TIME.

>> Rooney: ALL RIGHT CALLIE.

ARE.

>> I HAVE A RAVE FOR THE PUBLIC RADIO DIRECTORS ASSOCIATION, THEY 20 MORE OF THEM WROTE A LETTER AND SENT IT TO THE NEW YORK TIMES COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE CALIPHATE PODCAST.

YOU WILL RECALL IT WAS PULLED BECAUSE THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS PROVEN NOT TO BE TRUTHFUL AND THE PUBLIC RADIO ASSOCIATION PEOPLE SAID THAT'S NOT OUR ISSUE.

THE TIMES DID NOT COME CLEAN WITH BARBERO'S OWN SHOW THE DAILY WHO IS HIS FIANCEE, LISA TOBIN NOR DID IT COME CLEAN ABOUT ANOTHER PERSON WHO WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THAT PODCAST, ANDY MILLS, ALLOWING HIM AFTER SOME PROBLEMATIC BEHAVIOR TO BE HOSTING THE DAILY IN BARBERO'S ABSENCE AND THEY SAID THIS IS NOT WAY TO BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT A PROBLEM.

>> Rooney: THEY ALSO COMPLI CALLED SOME PEOPLE IN RADIO AND SAID, PLEASE DON'T REPORT THIS, WE'RE FIXING THIS, AND IT'S UNHEARD OF, TO CONTACT A NEWS AREA AND TELL THEM WHAT TO SAY OR NOT SAY.

DAN YOU'RE NEXT.

>> ANNA WEINER, A RETIREE LIVING IN A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY IN YONK ERST NEWERS, NEW YORK, SHE WASN'T HAPPY ABOUT WHAT THE MANAGEMENT WAS GIVING TO RESIDENTS, ABOUT RESIDENTS WHO HAD PASSED AWAY.

SHE DECIDED TO START A NEWSLETTER, SHE GOT SOMEONE TO PROOFREAD WHAT SHE WROTE, SHE HAD SOURCES OF PEOPLE WHO WORKED WITHIN THE BUILDING TO GIVE HER INFORMATION.

SHE PRINTED OFF 170 GLOSSY COPIES OF HER NEWSLETTER, SHE CALLED IT THE BUZZ.

FOR WHEN YOU WEBSITES TO THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND THEY WOULD ASK WHO HAVE YOU BEEN AROUND, HAVE YOU BEEN NEXT DOOR OR BEEN IN CONTACT WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS COVID-19, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO TELL, IF YOU WEREN'T GETTING GOOD INFORMATION.

AND GUESS WHAT?

SHE WOULD SLIP THESE UNDER THE DOORS OF RESIDENTS, AND THEY APPRECIATED IT SO MUCH, THAT THEY STARTED CLIPPING SLIPPING MONEY UNDER HER DOORS, ENVELOPES ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO $500.

SHE USED TO OWN A FURNITURE STORE I GUESS.

IF YOU HAVE GOOD STORIES TO TELL AND PEOPLE WANT THAT INFORMATION, THEY'LL PAY FOR IT EVEN IF YOU'RE 80 YEARS OLD.

>> Rooney: THAT'S GREAT I LOVE IT.

ACTUALLY ON A TEAM HERE I TOO HAVE A RAVE TONIGHT FOR SOMEONE WHO DID SOME REPORTING OF COVID THAT IS SARAH SIDNER WITH CNN, WHO WAS ON GOOD DAY WITH ALLISON CAMARADA, SHE HAD JUST FINISHED A FOUR AND A HALF MINUTE REPORT, LIVE ON CAMERA.

THIS IS A BIT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE TENTH HOSPITAL THAT I HAVE BEEN-- I'M SORRY.

THIS IS THE TENTH...

I APOLOGIZE, I'M GOING TO TRY TO GET THROUGH THIS.

THIS IS THE TENTH HOSPITAL THAT I HAVE BEEN IN, AND TO SEE THE WAY THAT THESE FAMILIES HAVE TO LIVE AFTER THIS, AND THE HEARTACHE THAT GOES SO FAR, AND SO WIDE.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO TAKE.

I'M SORRY, ALISYN.

>> SARAH, NO APOLOGY, NO APOLOGY NEEDED.

>> Rooney: YOU KNOW IT WAS HARD TO WATCH AND IT MADE ME SQUIRM A LITTLE BIT.

BUT IT WAS SO REAL AND SO GENUINE.

SHE HAD SEEN SO MUCH AND SHE HAD JUST LISTENED TO HER OWN REPORT IN HER OWN EAR.

AND THAT WAS HER REACTION.

GOOD WORK SARAH SIDENER.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR SHOW.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK.

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I'M EMILY ROONEY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org