>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

A DECISIVE VICTORY FOR DONALD TRUMP IN IOWA.

I GET THE LOWDOWN FROM REPUBLICAN DONOR FRANK LAVIN ON WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE U.S. ELECTION AND FOR THE WORLD.

>>> THEN A STATE OF EMERGENCY IN ECUADOR.

I ASK THE COUNTRY'S PRESIDENT ABOUT CRACKING DOWN ON GANGS.

>>> PLUS, SETTLER DESIGNS ON GAZA.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL REPORT ON THE VISION OF ISRAEL'S FAR RIGHT.

>>> ALSO AHEAD, A STRONG-MAN PRESIDENT?

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST ZEYNEP TUFEKCI JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS TRUMP'S FAR RIGHT.

>>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

IT'S THE DAY AFTER THE NIGHT BEFORE IN AMERICA'S PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS.

THE STARTING GUN WAS FIRED IN IOWA AND FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WON THE CAUCUS CONVINCINGLY, TAKING MORE THAN HALF THE VOTE, THIS DESPITE FACING A SLEW OF CIVIL AND CRIMINAL CHARGES AND AFTER ATTEMPTING TO OVERTURN THE 2020 ELECTION.

HERE HE IS SPEAKING AFTER THE IOWA RESULT.

>> PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY ARE GREAT.

THEY'RE ALL GREAT.

WE LOVE IOWA.

BUT THEY'RE ALL GREAT.

THEY ONLY WANT TO SEE ONE THING.

THEY WANT OUR COUNTRY TO COME BACK.

THEY'RE EMBARRASSED BY WHAT'S GOING ON.

OUR COUNTRY IS LAUGHED AT ALL OVER THE WORLD THEY'RE LAUGHING AT US.

AND THEY WANT OUR COUNTRY TO COME BACK.

THEY WANT AMERICA -- THEY WANT US TO BE GREAT AGAIN.

IT'S VERY SIMPLE.

MAGA.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

>> IT IS THE SAME SPEECH ALL THESE YEARS LATER.

BUT IF EVANGELICALS WERE ALWAYS GOING TO PUT TRUMP OVER THE TOP, THE REAL BATTLE WAS FOR SECOND PLACE AND A SO-CALLED CONVINCING ALTERNATIVE TO TRUMP.

FLORIDA GOVERNOR RON DeSANTIS EKED OUT A NARROW LEAD OVER THE FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY.

NOW ALL EYES ARE TURNED TOWARDS NEW HAMPSHIRE'S PRIMARY, WHICH IS NEXT WEEK.

OUR NEXT GUEST, GOP FUNDRAISER AND DONOR FRANK LAVIN IS PART OF THE OLD GUARD OF REPUBLICANS, IF YOU CAN PUT IT THAT WAY, WHO REFUSE TO SUPPORT TRUMP BACK IN 2016, WHO BELIEVES IN POLICY.

AND BEFORE THAT, HE SERVED IN RONALD REAGAN'S WHITE HOUSE.

NOW HE'S PUTTING HIS SUPPORT FIRMLY BEHIND HALEY, AND HE IS JOINING ME FROM CEDAR RAPIDS, IOWA.

FRANK LAVIN, SO LET ME ASK YOU HOW HARD IS THE HANGOVER?

ARE YOU -- ARE YOU SUFFERING TODAY OR WHAT?

>> WELL, IT WAS A GOOD DAY FOR DONALD TRUMP, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> BUT THAT IS NOT YOUR CANDIDATE.

THAT'S WHY I ASKED YOU.

THAT'S WHY I ASKED YOU.

>> THAT'S NOT MY CANDIDATE.

I'M FOR NIKKI HALEY, AND SHE PLACED I WOULD SAY A RESPECTABLE THIRD, BUT OF COURSE, IT WAS DISAPPOINTING BECAUSE WE'RE HOPING FOR A RESPECTABLE SECOND.

SO IT WAS NOT THE NIGHT WE WANTED LAST NIGHT FOR NIKKI HALEY, BUT NEXT WEEK IS NEW HAMPSHIRE.

AND WE GET TO TRY AGAIN.

>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK, FRANK LAVIN, THAT NEXT WEEK MIGHT BE DIFFERENT?

AND HOW MUCH DID YOU REALLY THINK HALEY WOULD PLACE SECOND IN IOWA?

>> WELL, IT WAS CLOSE, CHRISTIANE.

IT WAS ONLY ONE OR TWO POINTS.

IT WAS A PLAUSIBLE GOAL.

IT WAS A REASONABLE TARGET.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE FELL A LITTLE BIT SHORT.

IT'S ALMOST AN EVEN SPLIT BETWEEN DeSANTIS AND HALEY.

BUT HE DID CREEP OUT A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF HER.

SO BE IT.

NEW HAMPSHIRE SHOULD BE A MORE FAVORABLE STATE FOR A FEW REASONS.

ONE, REMEMBER CHRIS CHRISTIE WAS POLLING IN THE LOW TEENS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND HE SINCE DROPPED OUT.

WE BELIEVE MOST OF THAT VOTE DOES GO TO NIKKI HALEY.

THE SECOND IMPORTANT POINT IS GOVERNOR SUNUNU VERY POPULAR, VERY EFFECTIVE GOVERNOR IS 100% COMMITTED, ENTHUSIASTIC, ENERGETIC, AND WORKING HARD FOR NIKKI HALEY.

SO YOU HAVE SOME LOCAL SUPPORT.

REMEMBER, THE GOVERNOR IN IOWA, GOD BLESS HER, WAS SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP.

SO NOW THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT, AND WE THINK WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A TAILWIND IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THAT WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE IN IOWA.

>> OKAY.

SO BEFORE I GET TO NEW HAMPSHIRE, LET ME ASK YOU FOR YOUR ANALYSIS ON TRUMP.

IT WAS HIS TO WIN, RIGHT?

IT IS THE EVANGELICAL HEARTLAND.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THEY WERE STILL GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM.

BUT HOW DO YOU ASSESS HOW HE SORT OF HAS RESURGED?

WHEN DO YOU THINK THE TRUMP SURGE HAPPENED?

BECAUSE HE WAS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, LAGGING, I THINK, FOR A LONG TIME, BEFORE THE LAST YEAR SO TO SPEAK.

>> RIGHT.

WELL, HE HAD I THINK TWO THINGS GOING FOR HIM.

ONE IS THE ALTERNATIVES IN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WERE SPLIT.

THERE WERE EIGHT REPUBLICANS AT THE FIRST DEBATE, AND IT JUST TOOK MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS TO WINNOW DOWN TO TWO.

THAT'S AN ENORMOUS ADVANTAGE TO THE WEEDER, THE SO-CALLED INCUMBENT LIKE DONALD TRUMP.

THAT'S ONE ADVANTAGE.

TWO, I'VE GOT TO SAY, WHATEVER YOU THINK OF DONALD TRUMP AND HIS POLICIES, HE HAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE, EMOTIONAL ENGAGEMENT WITH THE AUDIENCE.

HE MIGHT NOT HAVE THE BEST POLICIES.

HE NIGHT MIGHT NOT HAVE THE BEST SUBSTANCE.

BUT BOY, IN TERMS OF PLAYING TO PEOPLE'S EMOTION, GETTING PEOPLE TO FEEL UNHAPPY OR HAPPY OR OUTRAGED, HE DOES THAT I THINK BETTER THAN ANY CANDIDATE TODAY.

>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF OTHER ANALYSIS THAT I'VE HEARD, PEOPLE THAT TALKED TO VOTERS AS THEY CAME OUT OF CAUCUSES, AS THEY CAME OUT FROM CASTING THEIR VOICE?

FOR INSTANCE, SOME PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY FELT MUCH BETTER OFF UNDER TRUMP, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT, WHEREAS THE ECONOMY IS ACTUALLY BETTER TODAY THAN IT WAS AT THE END OF TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY.

OTHERS SAYING THAT THEY ACTUALLY NOT ONLY LIKE HIM DESPITE SOME OF THE OUTRAGEOUS THINGS HE SAYS, BUT BECAUSE OF, MOST PARTICULARLY THAT HORRIBLE COMMENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ASIAN AND AFRICAN BLOOD OF IMMIGRANTS, YOU KNOW, POISONING AMERICAN BLOOD.

PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE THAT.

AND THESE ARE MEANT TO BE EVANGELICALS.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

IT'S HARD TO FIGURE ALL OF THIS OUT.

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT HE ENJOYS BEING A BIT OFFENSIVE, BEING A BIT OUTRAGEOUS, AND HE ENJOYS GETTING A CRITICAL REACTION.

AND IF NOTHING ELSE, IT GUARANTEES HE IS FRONT AND CENTER.

SO THAT IS A TACTIC I THINK HE REGULARLY USES OF STEPPING ON OTHER PEOPLE'S TOES SO TO SPEAK AND GETTING CRITICIZED FOR IT.

BUT THERE IS TWO ELEMENTS THAT HE PLAYS INTO I THINK VERY EFFECTIVELY.

ONE, JOE BIDEN IS VIEWED WITH BROAD DISFAVOR IN TERMS OF HIS IMMIGRATION POLICY.

I THINK AMERICANS ARE CONCERNED WHAT THEY PERCEIVE AS SOMETHING CLOSE TO OPEN BORDERS AND BIDEN NOT ON TOP OF HIS OBLIGATION THAT IS ONE FAVOR A THAT PLAYS DIRECTLY INTO TRUMP BECAUSE TRUMP IS VIEWED AS THE MOST ORTHODOX, IF YOU WILL ON BORDER CONTROLS.

BIDEN'S AGE, HIS FEEBLENESS, HIS FRAILTY.

SO YOU DO EVOKE THIS NOSTALGIA, CAN WE GET A PRESIDENT WHO IS MORE ALIVE, MOTHER ALERT.

AND WHATEVER WEAKNESSES TRUMP HAS, AND I THINK HE HAS MANY, HE HAS A STAGE PRESENCE THAT CAN BE ELECTRIC.

AND IT'S A SHARP CONTRAST WITH JOE BIDEN.

>> SO I WANT YOU TO THEN SORT OF DESCRIBE NIKKI HALEY'S STAGE PRESENCE.

SHE HAS CERTAINLY COME OUT FIGHTING.

SHE HAS BEEN VERY, VERY ENERGETIC WITH THE OTHERS.

THE WOMAN IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THESE MEN REALLY HOLDING HER OWN IN MANY MORE WAYS THAN ONE.

SHE DID, AS WE SAY, COME IN SLIGHT THIRD.

LET'S JUST LISTEN TO WHAT SHE SAID AFTER THE RESULTS.

>> I CAN SAFELY SAY TONIGHT IOWA MADE THIS REPUBLICAN PRIMARY A TWO-PERSON RACE.

OUR CAMPAIGN IS THE LAST BEST HOPE OF STOPPING THE TRUMP-BIDEN NIGHTMARE.

>> OKAY.

SO SHE GAVE IT HER BEST, EVEN IN A DISAPPOINTING FINISH.

WHAT DOES SHE ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> I THINK SHE'S GOT TO MORE OR LESS WIN.

I SAY MORE OR LESS BECAUSE LET'S FACE IT.

IF SHE GETS 49% OR 48%, I THINK THAT'S A HUGE EMBARRASSMENT FOR TRUMP.

SO HE MIGHT TECHNICALLY HAVE 51%, BUT BOY IS THAT A PUNCH IN THE NOSE TO DONALD TRUMP.

BUT SHE'S GOT TO REALLY OUTPERFORM.

SHE HAD ROUGHLY 20 OR 19% IN IOWA.

IF SHE TAKES THAT UP TO 50% IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, THAT IS QUITE AN IMPRESSIVE ACCOMPLISHMENT.

BUT THERE IS A LOT AT STAKE THERE.

SHE CANNOT COME IN THIRD IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, AND SHE CAN'T COME IN SECOND BUT VERY FAR BACK IN THE PACK.

SHE'S GOT TO SHOW THAT SHE CAN WIN.

>> AND DO YOU THINK THAT SHE HAS EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO COME IN SECOND SOMEWHERE BECAUSE DeSANTIS HAS KIND OF CHOSEN NOT TO CAMPAIGN IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> DeSANTIS DOESN'T HAVE THE SORT OF POSITION AND THE PERSONALITY THAT I THINK APPEALS TO VOTERS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

SO I THINK IT WAS WISE OF HIM TO PULL OUT, AND THAT'S REALLY GOOD NEWS FOR NIKKI HALEY AS WELL.

HE'S GOT HER VOTE, HER BASE VOTE, WHICH WAS THIS THE 30s IN NEW HAMPSHIRE IN THE POLLS.

SHE IS GOING TO HAVE A BIG CHUNK OF CHRIS CHRISTIE'S AS WELL.

SO IT'S NOT A BAD STARTING POINT FOR HER.

SHE GOES INTO NEW HAMPSHIRE WITH A REASONABLE CHANCE OF OUTPERFORMING, A REASONABLE CHANCE OF PULLING EVEN WITH DONALD TRUMP.

>> CLEARLY YOU'RE VOICING WHAT MANY -- I GUESS DO WE CALL YOU OLD-STYLE REPUBLICANS?

NON-MAGA REPUBLICANS, ANTI-TRUMP REPUBLICANS?

CERTAINLY PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE.

BUT THERE ARE ALSO CRITICS OF NIKKI HALEY.

FOR INSTANCE, TIM ALBERTA WHO HAS WRITTEN THE BOOK ON EVANGELICALS AND HOW THEY OPERATE, BUT NONETHELESS, HE IS A VERY ACUTE POLITICAL OBSERVER.

AND HE SAID THE FOLLOWING ABOUT HALEY AND HOW SHE ACTUALLY NEEDS TO COME OUT STRONGER, OR AT LEAST SHE DID BEFORE AGAINST TRUMP.

LISTEN TO HER.

>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE, AT LEAST LOSE SAYING WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND TELLING VOTERS WHO IT IS THAT YOU REALLY ARE, AND WHY YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM THE FRONT-RUNNER, THE FAVORITE TO BE THE NOMINEE OF YOUR PARTY.

BUT SHE'S NOT WILLING TO DO THAT.

AND I'M NOT SURE WHETHER SHE THINKS SHE HAS A CHANCE TO BE HIS VICE PRESIDENT OR NOT.

BUT IT'S JUST BEEN SORT OF A SHELL OF A CAMPAIGN IN MANY WAYS.

>> WHAT'S YOUR REACTION, AND WHAT DOES SHE NEED TO SHARPEN UP THAT DISTINCTION?

>> I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S -- YEAH, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S FAIR CRITICISM.

I HAD THE CHANCE IN IOWA OVER THE LAST FIVE OR SIX DAYS TO HEAR HER THREE OR FOUR TIMES, AND SHE REALLY GOES AFTER TRUMP ON JANUARY 6th.

SHE GOES AFTER HIM ON BEING AN ELECTION DENIER, WHICH I THINK ARE TWO VERY CRITICAL POINTS THIS GUY'S PERSONA.

HOW IRRESPONSIBLE CAN YOU BE ON JANUARY 6th TO EGG THOSE PEOPLE ON, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HIS DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY WAS, HE SURE WAS CHEERLEADING THOSE GUYS, THE RIOTERS.

AND THEN HE IS A HUGE ELECTION DENIER FOR SEVERAL YEARS WHERE HE IS THE SOREST LOSER IN PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS, AND HE WANTS TO DRAG THE ENTIRE COUNTRY INTO A DEBATE ABOUT HIS LOSS.

SO I THINK SHE CORRECTLY HELD HIS FEET TO THE FIRE ON THOSE TWO POINTS.

BUT SHE HAS A PLEASANT AND PROFESSIONAL DEMEANORMENT SHE IS NOT AMP SCREAMER, NOT A YELLER.

SO SOMETIMES PEOPLE WANT ANGER OR WANT LIGHTNING BOLTS IN A SPEECH.

AND THAT'S JUST NOT HER STYLE.

SHE WANTS TO I THINK COMMAND THE ROOM AND SHARE HER INCITE WITH PEOPLE, BUT DO SO IN AS PLEASANT A WAY AS POSSIBLE.

SO SHE IS AN ENGAGING PERSONALITY, IF YOU ASK ME.

I FIND IT VERY APPEALING.

>> SO OBVIOUSLY, THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY DON'T WANT TRUMP TO WIN, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WANT TO SEE MAYBE REPUBLICANS SUCH AS HERSELF, SUCH AS EVEN CHRIS SUNUNU, GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE JUST SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR TRUMP IF HE IS THE NOMINEE.

NONE OF THEM HAVE SAID THAT YET.

THEY'VE IN FACT ALL DOUBLED DOWN THAT THEY WILL VOTE FOR HIM IF HE IS THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

HERE IS CHRIS SUNUNU WHO IS NOT A TRUMP MAGA TYPE, BUT HERE HE IS.

>> I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH.

THAT SHOULDN'T SHOCK ANYBODY.

THAT SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISE TO ANYBODY THAT THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR AND MOST ACTUALLY OF AMERICA IS GOING TO END UP GOING AGAINST BIDEN BECAUSE THEY NEED TO SEE A CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> SO THEY WANT TO BE ON THE WINNING TEAM, RIGHT?

>> WELL, BY THE WAY, CHRISTIANE, IF I MAY SAY THIS, THE ONE PERSON, THE ONE CANDIDATE WHO STEPPED BACK FROM THAT PLEDGE TO SUPPORT THE PARTY WAS DONALD TRUMP.

TRUMP WAS THE ONE WHAT SAID WHEN ASKED ARE YOU GOING TO SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, HIS RESPONSE IS ALWAYS "WE'LL SEE."

BACK TO THE SORE LOSER ATTITUDE, TYPICALLY HIS VIEW IS LOOK, IF I'M NOT THE NOMINEE, SOMEBODY ELSE MUST HAVE CHEATED OR STOLEN OR DONE SOMETHING TERRIBLE.

SO I CAN'T IN GOOD CONSCIENCE SUPPORT THAT PERSON.

HE HAS NO CONCEPT OF FAIR PLAY OR BEING A GOOD SPORT, AND ALL HE DOES IS CASTIGATE SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT CREEP BY A FEW PERCENTAGE POINTS IN ONE OF THE VOTES.

>> CAN I ASK, BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD POSITIONS ABROAD.

WE MET A LONG TIME AGO IN SINGAPORE, A REALLY VIBRANT PART OF ASIA RIGHT NOW.

AND I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU THINK LAST NIGHT'S RESULT FOR TRUMP, WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE DOES IT TELEGRAPH TO THE WORLD?

THE HEAD OF THE ECB, FORMER MANAGING DIRECTOR OF THE IMF CHRISTINE LAGARDE HAS SAID TRUMP IS A THREAT TO EUROPE.

YOU KNOW, HE HAS SAID THAT HE WON'T COME TO EUROPE'S AID IF IT WAS ATTACKED, THAT HE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY DEPLOY NATO, THAT MAYBE HE MIGHT EVEN PULL THE U.S. OUT OF NATO.

GIVEN HOW MUCH IS AT STAKE ON ALL THOSE ISSUES RIGHT NOW, WHAT SHOULD THE WORLD BE TAKING AWAY AND HOW SHOULD THEY PREPARE, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT ALLIES, FOR TRUMP-BIDEN?

>> WELL, IN MY EXPERIENCE IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION, WE BELIEVE WE HAD A SUCCESSFUL FOREIGN POLICY THROUGH TACTICS.

ONE IS PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH, HAVING A STRONG MILITARY.

THE SECOND WAS INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP, YOUR LEADING COALITIONS OF ALLIES, FRIENDS, LIKE-MINDED NATIONS.

THESE ARE ALL FORCE MULTIPLIERS FOR YOU.

BUT THIS REQUIRES DIPLOMACY, REQUIRES INTERACTION AND GIVE AND TAKE BECAUSE IT'S A MANAGEMENT EXERCISE WITH OTHER SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES.

BUT BY DOING THAT, YOU'RE ABLE TO PUSH BACK AGAINST RUSSIA, PUSH BACK AGAINST IRAN, CHINA, NORTH KOREA, OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE BAD ACTORS.

LIST WE HAVE TODAY OF FOLKS WHO ARE JUST TROUBLE MAKERS AGAINST U.S.

INTERESTS OR U.S. FRIENDS.

SO MY ADVICE TO ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT IS FOCUS ON A STRONG MILITARY AND FOCUS ON INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP OF LIKE-MINDED NATIONS.

>> SO ONE OF YOUR COLLEAGUES MIKE MURPHY, WHO IS MAYBE I THINK HE WAS A REAGAN REPUBLICAN, AND HE ALSO IS AN ANALYST AND AN ADVISER THESE DAYS.

HE SAYS THE CURRENT REPUBLICAN ACTIVIST CORE, I GUESS MAGA, THEY -- WHO DO THE NOMINATING, IT'S CHANGED OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS.

HE SAID IT DOESN'T FOCUS ON THE KIND OF POLICY THAT YOU'VE JUST BEEN OUTLINING.

IT WANTS THE CULTURE WARS.

IT LIKES THE NAME-CALLING, THE ENTERTAINMENT FACTOR, THE CELEBRITY FACTOR, THE ABILITY TO RAISE FUNDS.

BUT TO DO WHAT?

DO YOU AGREE THAT THERE IS A SORT OF A HUGE POLICY VACUUM AMONGST THE MAGA REPUBLICANS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY ACTUALLY STAND FOR IN TERMS OF THE GOOD OF AMERICA?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE PARTY SHIFT.

SOCIETY SHIFTS OVER TIME.

I THINK IN MY VIEW, SOCIAL MEDIA ACCELERATES THIS BECAUSE SOCIAL MEDIA REWARDS THE MOST PUGNACIOUS COMMENT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT A MAINSTREAM OR WIDELY ACCEPTED COMMENT.

SO I THINK IT DRAGS THE WHOLE CONVERSATION MORE TOWARD THEATRICS OR THE FRINGE OF THE POLITICAL POLICY.

SO I DO THINK YOU HAVE A DETERIORATION IN THE DEBATE.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT WITH DISCUSSION OF WOKE ISSUES OR TRANSGENDER ISSUES.

PEOPLE WILL FOCUS SOMETIMES ON REASONABLY MINOR ACTIVITIES, BUT IT ALERTS THEM OR IT ALARMS THEM, AND THEY ORGANIZE THEIR LIFE AROUND SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A VERY COMMON ACTIVITY.

SO THESE SEEMINGLY MINOR ISSUES HAVE SORT OF OUTSIZED ROLE IN POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS.

INSTEAD OF YOU GO BACK A GENERATION AGO, THE MAIN DISCUSSION WAS HOW DO WE GET THE ECONOMY BECOME ON TRACK, GET ECONOMIC GROWTH GOING, GET INFLATION DOWN, GET UNEMPLOYMENT DOWN AND ALLOW EVERYBODY TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE THAT WAS SORT OF THE CENTER OF THE PLATE FOR DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

AND IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE CENTER OF THE PLATE TODAY.

>> SO I GUESS ONE LAST QUESTION.

WHAT IF NIKKI HALEY DOESN'T MAKE IT?

CLEARLY SOUTH CAROLINA -- YOU JUST SAID NEW HAMPSHIRE, BUT ALSO SOUTH CAROLINA IS HER REAL IMPORTANT TESTING GROUND, HER OWN STATE.

WHAT DO NON-MAGA REPUBLICANS DO NEXT?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT?

DO YOU PUSH YOUR SUPPORT BEHIND WHOEVER IS THE NOMINEE, INCLUDING TRUMP?

>> WELL, I'LL HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

I'LL HOLD THAT THOUGHT, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT NEW HAMPSHIRE.

CHRISTIANE, I THINK NIKKI HALEY IS IN VERY GOOD SHAPE FOR THAT.

I WANT TO DO ANYTHING I CAN TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, BUT NIKKI HALEY IS SIMPLY A BETTER CANDIDATE, A BETTER REPUBLICAN, AND TO MY MIND A BETTER PERSON.

SO WE OUGHT TO GET BEHIND HER.

>> FRANK LAVIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>>> AND WE TURN NOW TO A STATE OF EMERGENCY IN ECUADOR WHERE THE ONCE PEACEFUL COUNTRY HAS DESCENDED INTO GANG VIOLENCE.

SINCE 2018, THE MURDER RATE HAS QUADRUPLED.

LAST YEAR, A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WAS ASSASSINATED.

AND AROUND A QUARTER OF THE COUNTRY'S PRISONS WERE UNDER GANG CONTROL.

FAST FORWARD TODAY AND THE COUNTRY'S NEW YOUNG PRESIDENT, LESS THAN A COUPLE OF MONTHS INTO THE JOB, HAS DECLARED A WAR ON GANGS AFTER THE DRUG CARTEL LEADER KNOWN AS FITO ESCAPED FROM PRISON AND HIS ARMED LOYALISTS STORMED A TV STUDIO DURING A LIVE BROADCAST, MAKING ALL SORTS OF DEMANDS.

THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT IT IS NOW DETAINED OVER 1500 PEOPLE AND CARRIED OUT MORE THAN 40 OPERATIONS AGAINST WHAT THEY CALL TERRORIST GROUPS.

TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS, THE MAN IN THE HOT SEAT HIMSELF, ECUADOR'S PRESIDENT DANIEL NOBOA.

HE IS JOINING ME FROM THE CAPITAL, QUITO.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, MR. PRESIDENT.

CAN I START BY ASKING A SIMPLE QUESTION.

YOU HAVE DECLARED WAR ON GANGS.

WE HAVE DESCRIBED HOW VERY MUCH POWER THEY HAVE.

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR COUNTRY?

>> HELLO.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE.

FIRST, I DECLARED WAR ON TERRORISTS.

THESE ARE NOT CONVENTIONAL GANGS.

THEY ARE TERRORIST GROUPS.

THEY ARE HIGHLY ORGANIZED, STRUCTURED, ARMED FORCES THAT TERRORIZE COMPLETE REGIONS AND HAVE HAD CONTROL IN THE PAST FEW YEARS OF OUR NATION'S PRISONS.

I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN WIN THIS WAR.

I'M CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN RESTORE PEACE AND RESTORE STABILITY IN A COUNTRY THAT HAS ALL, THAT HAS NATURAL RESOURCES, THAT HAS A STABLE DOLLARIZED ECONOMY, AND THAT WE CAN PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT AND ATTRACT INVESTMENT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> AND JUST TO SAY WE HAVE A SLIGHT DELAY, SO OUR VIEWERS WILL UNDERSTAND THAT.

LONG DISTANCE AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

BUT HOW MUCH OF AN ISSUE IS IT FOR YOU IN YOUR FIGHT?

YOU CALL IT TERRORISM.

OTHERS HAVE CALLED IT THE FIGHT AGAINST DRUG CARTELS, THAT THE MAIN PERPETRATOR, THIS GUY NICKNAMED FITO APPEARS TO BE STILL AT LARGE, AND THERE ARE A CERTAIN 43 PRISONERS REMAINING AT LARGE AFTER THE CRACKDOWN.

THE FACT OF THOSE PEOPLE BEING AT LARGE, HOW DIFFICULT DOES THAT MAKE YOUR CURRENT OPERATION?

>> WE ARE WORKING IN AN ORDERLY MANNER.

WE HAVE FREED 170 HOSTAGES, AND WE HAVE RESTORED STABILITY IN THE PRISONS RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE ONE LEADER AT LARGE.

WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE THAT IS AT LARGE, AND THE REST WE'RE TRACKING THEM DOWN.

RIGHT NOW THE ARMY AND THE POLICE ARE WORKING TOGETHER, AND THE WHOLE NATION IS UNITED TO ACTUALLY ELIMINATE THIS THREAT.

PEOPLE WANT PEACE.

PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO WALK FREELY ON THE STREET, TO HAVE THEIR OWN BUSINESS, TO HAVE STABILITY SO THAT THEIR KIDS CAN GO TO PARKS, CAN GO TO SCHOOL, CAN GO ALSO TO THE UNIVERSITY, THE OLDER KIDS.

AND I BELIEVE THAT OUR OPERATION IS BEING SUCCESSFUL AT THE MOMENT.

WE ARE HAVING PROGRESS, AND I'M SURE THAT WE WILL HAVE A FULL VICTORY AT THE END.

>> I MEAN, YOU REALLY DO TALK IN WAR TERMS, VICTORY AND MILITARIZATION, THE WAR, ET CETERA.

SO CAN YOU -- WHAT IS YOUR EXAMPLE?

WHAT IS YOUR SORT OF I GUESS PLAN?

WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A SIMILAR AND THERE HAS BEEN A SIMILAR WAR ON GANGS, WAR ON -- THEY CALL IT TERROR OR DRUGS IN EL SALVADOR.

IS THAT YOUR EXAMPLE FOR HOW TO CONTINUE AND HOW TO WAGE THIS FIGHT?

>> NO, IT'S NOT.

FIRST, THERE IS TWO DIFFERENT NATIONS, TWO DIFFERENT REALITIES CULTURALLY, ECONOMICALLY.

SECONDLY, I BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT I TAUGHT SINCE THE CAMPAIGN THAT WE NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE OVER 30,000 MEMBERS OF THESE NARCO TERRORIST GROUPS THAT ARE THREATENING THE WHOLE POPULATION.

SO WE'RE MILITARIZING THE PORTS.

WE'RE PROTECTING OUR BORDERS.

WE'RE REESTABLISHING CONTROL IN OUR PRISONS, AND AT THE SAME TIME WITH INTELLIGENCE, WITH THE CS, WITH MILITARY INTELLIGENCE, WE'RE WORKING ON BREAKING THIS CYCLE AND BREAKING THE CHAIN OF FINANCING ALSO FOR THESE NARCO TERRORIST GROUPS.

IT'S A DIFFERENT REALITY.

IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

>> RIGHT.

BUT THE THING IS -- >> AND I DO BELIEVE THAT -- >> YEAH?

>> I DO BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY.

I DO BELIEVE IN A COUNTRY BEING UNITED.

I'VE REQUESTED WITHOUT THE OBLIGATION THE SUPPORT OF THE PARLIAMENT, WHICH IN AN UNANIMOUS WAY SUPPORTED MY DECREE.

I'VE ASKED ALSO THE COURT TO GIVE US THEIR OPINION.

THEY'RE SUPPORTING OUR FIGHT.

SO WE ARE RESPECTING THE DIFFERENCE, THE DIFFERENT POWERS OF THE STATE.

AND IN A DEMOCRATIC WAY, WE ARE FIGHTING FOR PEACE.

WE'RE FIGHTING FOR PROGRESS.

>> YOU KNOW, I ASK YOU, BECAUSE MANY IN EL SALVADOR SEE THEIR METHOD HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

THEY CAN NOW GO BACK OUTSIDE, EATING AT RESTAURANTS, WALKING AROUND ON THE STREET, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A VERY BRUTAL CRACKDOWN, IT'S EFFECTIVELY DESTROYED THE GANG PROBLEM THERE.

DO YOU THINK YOU MIGHT EVER BE TEMPTED TO DO THAT IF YOU'RE HAVING DIFFICULTY DOING IT THE WAY YOU'RE DOING NOW?

>> I BELIEVE IN THE ECUADORAN WAY.

AND I BELIEVE IN THE NOBLER WAY.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE OUR OWN STYLE.

WE HAVE OUR OWN WAY OF GOVERNING IN A DEMOCRATIC WAY, AND WE NEED TO REESTABLISH PEACE.

AND THE MOMENT THAT THE PEOPLE JUST WISH FOR ME NOT TO BE HERE, HE WILL GLADLY LEAVE.

AND GO BACK TO MY FAMILY, GO BACK TO MY BUSINESSES.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE U.S. OBVIOUSLY, THE UNITED STATES IS AN ALLY.

IT SENT SOME TOP OFFICIALS, BOTH FROM THE MILITARY AND FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU'RE HOPING TO GET FROM THEM, WHAT KIND OF AID YOU NEED.

AND MOST SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU PLAN TO REOPEN A DEA BASE LIKE THERE WAS IN PREVIOUS ECUADORAN GOVERNMENTS TO DEAL WITH THESE PROBLEMS?

>> IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO DO SO.

WE CANNOT HAVE FOREIGN BASES IN ECUADOR ACCORDING TO OUR NEW CONSTITUTION FROM 2008.

BUT WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

WE CAN HAVE COOPERATION.

WE CAN HAVE THE DEA WORK WITH THE CS, WORK WITH THE ANTI-NARCOTICS POLICE HERE AND HELP US FIGHT AGAINST THESE TERRORIST GROUPS, WHICH ARE -- HAVE A LOT OF MONEY, HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCE, HAVE A LOT OF GUNS.

SO WE NEED -- WE NEED INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION.

I WOULD GLADLY ACCEPT COOPERATION FROM THE U.S. WE NEED EQUIPMENT.

WE NEED WEAPONS.

WE NEED INTELLIGENCE.

AND I THINK THAT THIS IS A GLOBAL PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT ONLY IN ECUADOR.

THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT GOES BEYOND BORDERS.

ABOUT 35, 40% OF THE DRUGS THAT COME OUT OF ECUADOR GO TO THE STATES.

ANOTHER SIMILAR PERCENTAGE TO EUROPE.

SO THIS HAS TO BE TREATED AS AN INTERNATIONAL PROBLEM.

>> EXPLAIN, THEN, TO OUR VIEWERS A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE YOUR COUNTRY DOES NOT PRODUCE THE KIND OF DRUGS THAT ARE IN QUESTION, DOES NOT PRODUCE COCAINE, AND YET YOUR COUNTRY'S BECOME IMPLICATED.

IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE SURROUNDING COUNTRIES?

WE KNOW THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM IN THE STATE OF EMERGENCY IN PARTS OF PERU.

COLOMBIA OBVIOUSLY HAS HAD A MAJOR DRUG-PRODUCING PART OF THE ECONOMY THERE.

MEXICAN CARTELS APPEAR TO BE HELPING THE ECUADORAN GANGS AND CARTELS.

EXPLAIN WHY ECUADOR BECAME CAUGHT IN THIS.

>> THERE ARE SIMILAR ELEMENTS.

I THINK THERE WERE WEAK INSTITUTIONS, NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, IF WE'RE A DOLLARIZED ECONOMY, IT'S EASIER TO PURCHASE, TRANSPORT DRUGS.

THERE IS NO CURRENCY EXCHANGE.

SO WE USE THE DOLLAR, WHICH IS THE INTERNATIONAL CURRENCY FOR DRUGS.

WE HAVE TO SAY IT AS IT IS.

ALSO, THE FACT THAT ECUADOR IS AN EXPORTER OF REFRIGERATED GOODS AND FOOD.

THE PORT OF GUAYAQUIL IS THE THIRD LARGEST IN TERMS OF VOLUME.

NUMBER ONE THE BRAZIL, NUMBER TWO IS MANZANILLO, MEXICO.

NUMBER THREE IS GUAYAQUIL, ECUADOR.

IT'S A DOMESTIC HUB FOR THE ENTIRE REGION.

IT'S A DOLLARIZED ECONOMY.

AND I THINK THAT THESE NARCO TERROR GROUPS, INTERNATIONAL GROUPS HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE TRYING TO REESTABLISH ORDER WITH STRONG INSTITUTIONS, WITH INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION, AND WITH MORE CLEAR LAWS ABOUT WHAT IS ALLOWED AND NOT ALLOWED.

>> AND JUST TO PICK UP ON YOU CLEARLY MADE A CALL FOR MORE EQUIPMENT, ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT YOU NEED FROM THE UNITED STATES OR ELSEWHERE TO HELP YOU WITH THIS.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH?

IS YOUR MILITARY, WHICH HAS BEEN SET ON THIS ISSUE, CONFIDENT THAT IT HAS THE EQUIPMENT TO WAGE THIS WAR, AS YOU CALL IT?

>> I'M PROUD OF OUR ARMED FORCES AS WELL AS THE NATIONAL POLICE, BUT WE DO NEED HELP.

THIS IS THE REALITY.

WE DO NEED HELP AND EQUIPMENT, IN TRAINING.

WE DO NEED ADDITIONAL HELP IN WEAPONS.

AND WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, ASHAMED OF SAYING SO.

WE HAVE A VERY STRONG MILITARY AND POLICE, BUT WE'LL ALWAYS NEED INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION FOR AN INTERNATIONAL PROBLEM.

>> AND FINALLY, MR. PRESIDENT, YOU ALLUDED TO THIS OBVIOUSLY WHERE THERE IS A DEMAND, THERE IS SUPPLY AND ET CETERA.

AND YOUR COUNTRY IS CAUGHT UP AS WELL AS OTHER LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES.

SO IT APPEARS THAT MANY BELIEVE THAT THE WAR ON DRUGS GLOBALLY HAS FAILED AND THAT THERE ARE MANY COUNTRIES AND MORE POLITICIANS MOVING TO ESSENTIALLY LEGALIZE MORE AND MORE DRUGS.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE ANSWER, EVEN WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE COCAINE OR OTHER SUCH THINGS?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE ANSWER.

ESPECIALLY NOT FOR COCAINE.

I DO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN OUR HEALTH SYSTEM.

WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN OUR SOCIAL SERVICES, AND WE NEED TO HELP THE PEOPLE FIRST OF ALL.

WE NEED TO GIVE THE ECUADORAN FAMILY AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROGRESS, TO GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE SOLUTION IS TO LEGALIZE DRUGS.

>> PRESIDENT DANIEL NOBOA, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US FROM QUITO IN ECUADOR.

>>> AND NOW WE TURN TO ISRAEL.

FOR MONTHS, THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAS VOICED CONCERN OVER THE LACK OF VISION BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT FOR WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE WAR.

HOWEVER, SOME ISRAELIS HAVE A VERY CLEAR PLAN.

THAT'S TO RESETTLE THE GAZA STRIP.

ISRAEL UNILATERALLY EVACUATED IN 2005, BUT NEARLY TWO DECADES LATER, SOME ON ISRAEL'S EXTREME RELIGIOUS AND NATIONALISTIC RIGHT SEE THE AFTERMATH OF OCTOBER 7th AS AN OPPORTUNITY.

AS JOMANA KARDASHEH REPORTS NOW.

>> Reporter: IT WAS A MOMENT OF DIVISION, PAIN, AND TRAUMA FOR MANY ISRAELIS.

2005, A CLUSTER OF ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS IN GAZA DISMANTLED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

THOUSANDS OF SETTLERS FORCED OUT OF THEIR HOMES UNDER THE DISENGAGEMENT LAW THAT SAW AN END TO ISRAEL'S PRESENCE IN THE GAZA STRIP.

BUT AFTER NEARLY TWO DECADES OF YEARNING FOR RETURN, THE MOVEMENT TO DO SO NOW APPEAR MORSE EMBOLDENED THAN EVER.

AMONG THAN NO LESS ISRAELI TROOPS THEMSELVES.

SOCIAL MEDIA IS NOW AWASH IN IMAGES LIKE THESE, ONE OF ISRAEL'S MOST POPULAR MUSICIANS TO THE CHEERS OF TROOPS, SINGS ABOUT THAT RETURN.

♪♪ AND MOVING THE NOVA FESTIVAL, SCENE OF A HAMAS MASSACRE, TO GAZA'S BEACHES.

AND IN RECENT WEEKS FROM INSIDE GAZA, SOLDIERS PROUDLY DISPLAYING THE ORANGE COLOR OF PROTEST AGAINST THE 2005 DISENGAGEMENT.

HERE SOLDIERS WITH A BANNER THAT READS "ONLY SETTLEMENT WOULD BE CONSIDERED VICTORY."

AND IN THIS VIDEO, TROOPS ANNOUNCING THE SYMBOLIC REESTABLISHMENT OF A FORMER SETTLEMENT.

>> JEWISH SOVEREIGNTY, JEWISH GOVERNANCE, AND OF COURSE JEWISH PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO LIVE IN THIS ANCESTRAL PIECE OF LAND.

ARABS, IF THEY ARE POST JIHAD, PRO-ISRAEL, AND WANT TO LIVE THAT GOOD LIFE IN THAT BEAUTIFUL SOIL, THERE SHOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT.

BUT ANTI-ISRAEL, PRO JIHAD ARABS HAVE GOT TO LEAVE.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A DIFFERENT PLACE TO GO.

>> Reporter: A POLL OF GAZANS CONDUCTED JUST BEFORE OCTOBER 7th SHOWED THAT 44% HAD NO TRUST IN HAMAS.

23% HAD LITTLE TRUST.

FROM THE FRONT LINES, A MESSAGE TO THE PRIME MINISTER.

>> Translator: WE ARE OCCUPYING, DEPORTING AND SETTLING.

DO YOU HEAR THAT, BIBI?

OCCUPYING, DEPORTING AND SETTLING."

>> Reporter: BIBI, PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAS YET TO UNVEIL HIS GOVERNMENT'S PLANS FOR POST WAR GAZA.

ON THE EVE OF LAST WEEK'S COURT HEARING IN THE HAGUE WITH ISRAEL FACING SOUTH AFRICA'S ACCUSATIONS OF GENOCIDE, HE RELEASED THIS ENGLISH LANGUAGE STATEMENT.

>> ISRAEL HAS NO INTENTION OF PERMANENTLY OCCUPYING GAZA OR DISPLACING ITS CIVILIAN POPULATION.

>> Reporter: BUT THOSE CALLS FOR EXPELLING GAZANS AND EXPELLING SETTLEMENTS ARE COMING FROM POWERFUL FAR RIGHT MEMBERS OF HIS COALITION.

"WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RULE THERE WITHOUT REESTABLISHING A SETTLEMENT.

THE MAJORITY OF THEM WANT TO EMIGRATE.

THEY JUST NEED TO BE ALLOWED TO DO IT.

>> Reporter: COMMENTS HAVE BEEN CONCERNING ENOUGH TO DRAW REBUKE FROM U.S. AND ARAB GOVERNMENTS, AND MANY WITHIN ISRAEL WHO SAY THEY'RE WIDELY UNACCEPTABLE.

BUT VOICES OF THE MOVEMENT ARE GROWING LOUDER BY THE DAY.

ULTRANATIONALISTS AND RELIGIOUS PARTIES BRINGING THAT DISCUSSION INTO THE KNESSET.

WHILE THESE VOICES ARE BY NO MEANS A MAJORITY IN ISRAEL, THEY ARE POWERFUL AND HAVE BEEN ADVANCING THEIR EXTREMIST AGENDA.

>> IDEAS THAT OFTEN SEEM VERY EXTREME AT CERTAIN FACES IN ISRAEL'S HISTORY CAN BECOME NORMALIZED VERY INCREMENTALLY.

>> Reporter: HOW PALESTINIANS FEAR THIS IS THE UNSPOKEN PLAN.

"THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION FOR THE GAZA STRIP."

>> Reporter: GAZA HAS BECOME UNLIVABLE.

THE NORTH A DECIMATED WASTELAND.

AROUND HALF OF ALL BUILDINGS ACROSS GAZA DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

NEARLY ITS ENTIRE POPULATION FORCED TO MOVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

1.9 MILLION PEOPLE SQUEEZED INTO A TINY PART OF THE ENCLAVE, NOT KNOWING IF THEY'LL EVER BE ALLOWED TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES.

AND THE FAR RIGHT HAS BEEN PROMOTING RELOCATING PALESTINIANS AS A HUMANITARIAN IDEA.

"WE MUST PROMOTE A SOLUTION TO ENCOURAGE THE EMZ OF THE RESIDENTS OF GAZA A CORRECT, JUST, MORAL AND HUMANE SOLUTION.

>> Reporter: FOR THAT ISRAEL IS FACING ACCUSATIONS OF VIOLATING INTERNATIONAL LAWS, ACTS THAT COULD AMOUNT TO GENOCIDE.

>> THERE IS AN OPENING FOR THOSE MINISTERS, MEDIA PEOPLE, AND SO FORTH ON THE ISRAELI RIGHT TO SAY WELL, THE MOST HUMANITARIAN SOLUTION IS TO REMOVE THAT POPULATION OR TO ENCOURAGE THEM, AS THEY SAY, TO MOVE OUT OF GAZA.

IF THAT HAPPENS, THEN THIS ENTIRE SCENARIO THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WILL BE SEEN AS ETHNIC CLEANSING.

AND ETHNIC CLEANSING IS ALWAYS ON THE VERGE OF GENOCIDE.

>> Reporter: A VIEW REJECTED BY THE LIKES OF HEBRON SETTLER LEADER AND FLEISHER.

>> IT IS A TIME OF OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE MORE PEOPLE'S MINDS HERE IN ISRAEL AND TO BRING MORE UNITY AND BROTHERHOOD IN OUR PEOPLEHOOD.

>> Reporter: DO YOU FEEL THAT THIS VISION, WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN SHOULD HAPPEN HAS BECOME MORE OF A POSSIBILITY, MORE REALISTIC RIGHT NOW, POST OCTOBER 7th?

>> I'D LOVE TO THINK SO, YES.

BUT ISRAEL IS VERY MUCH IN CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A THINK-OUT HAPPENING.

PEOPLE ARE LIKE WAKING UP TO -- THEY'RE TRYING TO OPEN THEIR MINDS.

>> HEBRON SETTLER FLEISHER ENDING THAT REPORT.

NOW AS WE HERD EARLIER IN THE SHOW, IN IOWA, TRUMP STRENGTHENED HIS POSITION AS THE GOP'S FRONT-RUNNER, BUT WHAT KEEPS REPUBLICANS SO LOYAL?

ONE PERSON WHO HAS EXPLORED TRUMP'S PERSONALITY IS "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST ZEYNEP TUFEKCI.

HER LATEST PIECE IS A STRONGMAN PRESIDENT?

THESE VOTERS CRAVE IT.

AND SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO REFLECT AT THIS CRITICAL MOMENT.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

ZAINAB, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

YESTERDAY WE SAW A PRETTY DECISIVE VICTORY FOR DONALD TRUMP, EVEN THOUGH HIS OPPONENTS CAMPAIGNED A LOT LONGER, HARDER, SPENT MORE MONEY PERHAPS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> IN SOME WAYS, IT'S NOT SURPRISING, BUT IT IS ONE MORE MARKER THAT THE CURRENT REPUBLICAN PARTY IS TRUMP'S.

WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF EFFORTS TO UNSEAT HIM, AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS IN 2016 WHERE A LOT OF REPUBLICAN CONTENDERS TRY TO GET THE NOMINATIONS OF HIM.

THAT WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL.

AND REMARKABLY, DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE HE WAS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE, HE HAS AN ENDURING BOND WITH MUCH OF THE REPUBLICAN BASE.

AND I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THEY DON'T WANT TRUMP LIGHT OR A TRUMP REPLACEMENT, OR SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP.

THEY WANT TRUMP.

>> YOU WROTE A PIECE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" THIS WEEK, AND IT WAS CALLED A STRONGMAN PRESIDENT, THESE VOTERS CRAVE IT.

TELL ME WHAT WAS AT THE CENTER OF THAT STORY.

>> SO IN 2016, WHEN A LOT OF COMMENTARY AROUND TRUMP'S EARLY CANDIDACY, HE WAS JOKING, HE'LL GO I HAD GONE TO TRUMP RALLIES AND I HAD ALSO TALKED TO A LOT OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

AND INSTEAD OF A BUMBLING CELEBRITY, WHICH IS WHAT I HAD EXPECTED TO FIND, I FOUND A POLITICIAN WHO WAS VERY MUCH IN TOUCH WITH HIS BASE.

AND HE WAS REALIGNING THE POLITICS OF THE GOP AROUND A COUPLE OF ISSUES LIKE TRADE, IMMIGRATION, LOSS OF MANUFACTURING.

AND IT WAS A VERY POWERFUL MESSAGE.

TO UNDERSTAND HAS THIS CHANGED?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS NOW A DIFFERENT KIND OF DYNAMIC?

ARE THE VOTERS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT HIM?

ARE THEY LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE?

AND WHAT I FOUND AFTER TALKING TO A LARGE NUMBER OF VOTERS, MORE THAN 100 IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE, BUT ALSO FOLLOWING ACTIVITIES ONLINE AND TALKING WITH OTHER VOTERS ELSEWHERE WHO WANT TO SUPPORT TRUMP, WHAT I FOUND IS THAT THEY SEE HIM AS A STRONG LEADER.

AND THEY SEE PRESIDENT BIDEN AS A WEAK LEADER IN CONTRAST.

BUT THEY ALSO SEE THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES AS WEAK.

SO THEY WANT IN THEIR TELLING IS THAT THEY WANT SOMEBODY WHO IS STRONG ENOUGH TO STAND UP TO EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND ALSO STAND UP TO WHAT THEY PERCEIVE AS THE WASHINGTON ESTABLISHMENT THAT'S AGAINST TRUMP.

AND HE IS SELLING THAT MESSAGE.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT HE GOES WITH.

AND HE HAS A BOND WITH THE BASE.

AND WHEN YOU ASK THEM ABOUT HIS VULGAR LANGUAGE, THE THINGS HE SAYS, THE WAY HE TALKS ABOUT, SAY, IMMIGRANTS OR HIS POLITICAL OPPONENTS, WHAT THEY SAY TO ME IS ALL POLITICIANS TALK LIKE THAT.

THEY'RE CORRUPT AND THEY SAY ALL SORTS OF THINGS, BUT ONLY TRUMP KIND OF BLURTS IT OUT.

SO EVEN THINGS THAT TO A NONSUPPORTER ARE ALARMING ARE SEEN BY THESE PEOPLE AS HE IS STRONG ENOUGH JUST TO SAY IT.

HE IS AUTHENTIC ENOUGH JUST TO SAY IT.

AND REMARKABLY, THEY ALSO THINK THAT HAD TRUMP BEEN PRESIDENT, THAT THE WAR IN UKRAINE MIGHT NOT HAVE HAPPENED, THAT THE HAMAS ATTACK WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED BECAUSE IN THEIR WORLD VIEW, THE TRUMPS, THEY ACKNOWLEDGE SOMEWHAT CRAZY SOMETIMES, SOMEWHAT UNPREDICTABLE BEHAVIOR THEY THINK WILL PROJECT STRENGTH.

AND THEY WOULDN'T BE THERE BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE AFRAID OF HIM.

AND ADDITIONALLY AND FINALLY, THEY TO A LAST PERSON WILL CITE THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS UNDER TRUMP AS BEING BETTER, ESPECIALLY INFLATION AND MORTGAGE RATES COME UP A LOT AS AN OBJECTIVE.

I THINK IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO, THEY SEE HIM AS AN AUTHENTIC STRONG MAN THAT THEY FIND A LOT OF ATTRACTION TO, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING AWAY FROM THAT BOND.

>> SO WHAT ARE THE SIMILARITIES THAT YOU SEE TO SAY HOW FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP CASTS HIMSELF VERSUS, SAY, DUTERTE IN THE PHILIPPINES AND ERDOGAN IN TURKEY?

>> RIGHT.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK IS STRIKING ACROSS ALL OF THESE LEADERS THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED IS THAT THEY HAVE A BASE THAT THEY DO PROTECT THROUGH BOTH PATRONAGE AND WELFARE STATE AND SAFETY NET.

IN FACT, ONE OF THE MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT TRUMP IS THAT HE WOULD BE LIKE A REGULAR REPUBLICAN IN TERMS OF TARGETING MEDICARE OR SOCIAL SECURITY.

JUST QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

HE TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS OPPONENTS, FLORIDA GOVERNOR DeSANTIS AND NIKKI HALEY AS THE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD TARGET WELFARE OR, YOU KNOW, WOULD TARGET SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

THEY DON'T SEE THAT AS -- THEY SEE THOSE AS DESERVED.

AND HE ALSO TALKS ABOUT IN THESE I ALONE CAN FIX IT.

I AM THE PERSON WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU.

I AM THE LEADER THAT WILL LOOK OUT FOR YOUR INTERESTS.

IN A WORLD AS HE WOULD PUT IT AND AS THESE OTHER LEADERS WOULD PUT IT, EVERYBODY ELSE IS AGAINST US.

HE IS CHANNELING A CERTAIN KIND OF ANGER, A CERTAIN KIND OF DISAFFECTION.

LIKE WITH MANY OF THESE OTHER LEADERS, THERE IS AN US AND THEM, AND THE THEM, FOR EXAMPLE, IN ORBAN HUNGRY IS THE IMMIGRANTS.

IN TRUMP, THERE IS A LOFT THAT AS WELL.

IT DEPENDS ON WHAT PART OF THE WORLD YOU'RE LOOKING AT.

SO THERE IS THE DISTURBING PEOPLE.

THERE IS AN OTHER TO BLAME, AND THERE IS THESE ELITES THAT HAVE IN THEIR VIEW SOLD OUT THE PEOPLE, THE DESERVING PEOPLE.

AND HERE COMES THE STRONG LEADER TO COME AND TAKE CARE OF YOU, TO PROVIDE A SAFETY NET FOR YOU, TO KEEP YOU SAFE IN A TUMULTUOUS WORLD.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, THIS IS WITH SO MUCH PRECEDENT.

THIS HAS HAPPENED AGAIN AND AGAIN IN HISTORY, THAT STRONG MAN COMES THROUGH.

POPULAR SUPPORT THROUGH MIX OF EXPLOITING DISAFFECTION, POINTING THE FINGER AT SOME ENEMY THAT IS EASY FOR THEIR BASE TO RALLY AROUND, DEMAGOGUERY, AND ALL THESE DETAILS THAT WE WORRY ABOUT PERHAPS IN TERMS OF THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, LIBERAL DEMOCRACY, JOURNALISTS IN JAIL IN A LOT OF THESE EXAMPLES THAT YOU HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ARE NOT HIGH ON THESE PEOPLE'S LIST.

AND HERE WE ARE.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, THAT LEADS ME TO SOMETHING THAT TRUMP SAID THAT HE WOULD ONLY BE DICTATOR ON DAY ONE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THAT WAS A JOKE OR NOT, BUT THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN HAS CERTAINLY PICKED UP ON THAT IDEA AND THAT THEME, AND THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE TO THEIR VOTERS AND THE AMERICAN VOTER THAT DEMOCRACY IS AT STAKE.

THE ALTERNATIVE IS AUTHORITARIANISM AND DICTATORSHIP AND STRONGMAN AND SO FORTH.

I WONDER, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING TO AT THE RALLIES THAT YOU'RE ATTENDING OF WHAT YOU'RE WATCHING ONLINE, DOES THAT RESONATE AT ALL WITH THEM?

>> WELL, LET'S START WITH THAT COMMENT.

I THINK IT'S FAIRLY STRAIGHT FORWARD TO POINT TO A LOT OF WORRIES ABOUT DEMOCRACY, ESPECIALLY WHERE WE CONSIDER LIBERAL DEMOCRACY, WHICH IS NOT JUST A MAJORITARIAN VOTE.

YOU DON'T JUST HAVE WHOEVER GETS IN POWER GETS TO DO WHAT THEY WANT.

WE HAVE LIMITS AND CHECKS AND BALANCES.

AND YOU CAN POINT TO A LOT OF THINGS IN THAT REGARD FROM TRUMP'S FIRST TERM AND ALSO THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOU KNOW, THE HOTELS, ALL THOSE THINGS.

YOU CAN MAKE A LOT OF CASES.

BUT LET'S TAKE THAT PARTICULAR.

IN THAT INTERVIEW, TRUMP SAID I'M GOING TO BE A DICTATOR FOR DAY ONE, AND I'M GOING TO SORT OF HAVE A RULE ON THE BORDER, AND WE'RE GOING DRILL, DRILL, BABY, DRILL.

AND HE WAS REFERRING TO DOING EXECUTIVE ORDERS ON DAY ONE.

AND THEN HE SAID I WILL THEN NOT BE A DICTATOR ANYMORE.

SO THAT WAS THE CONTEXT.

SO I FELT LIKE THIS WAS THE KIND OF THING WHERE INSTEAD OF PICKING MANY OF THE OTHER EXAMPLES ABOUT TRUMP THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION COULD OKAY, THEY PICKED ONE IN WHICH HE WAS NOT REALLY COMING AND SAYING I AM GOING TO BE A DICTATOR.

HE WAS SAYING I'M GOING TO PASS EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

I ASKED ABOUT THIS TO MANY PEOPLE, AND THEY KNEW THIS, RIGHT.

SO THEY WOULD SAY, WELL, THE MEDIA SAYS, YOU KNOW, TRUMP'S GOING TO BE A DICTATOR, BUT I WATCHED THE WHOLE CLIP.

NOW I'M NOT HERE DEFENDING TRUMP.

WHEN I POINT THIS OUT, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET MAD AT ME BECAUSE THEY WANT ME TO SAY WELL, TRUMP WILL BE A DICTATOR.

I'M NOT TRYING TO DENY AT ALL THAT THERE IS GENUINE CONCERN ABOUT RULE OF LAW, SEPARATION OF POWERS, CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

BUT THAT PARTICULAR QUOTE IS NOT REALLY PLAYING WITH THESE PEOPLE, BECAUSE THE ONE YOU WATCHED THE WHOLE VIDEO IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT, IT'S NOT LIKE HE'S GOT SOME CONFESSION TO MAKE THAT SOMEBODY CAUGHT HIM ON TAPE.

HE'S SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT EXECUTIVE ORDERS, RIGHT.

SO THERE IS OTHER ARGUMENTS, OF COURSE TO BE MADE ON ELECTION DENIAL.

THERE IS ARGUMENTS TO BE MADE ON JANUARY 6th.

THERE IS ARGUMENTS TO BE MADE ON ESPECIALLY I THINK IT'S CONFLICT OF INTERESTS AND MAKING MONEY FROM THE HOTELS FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS AND ALL THE EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE.

ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE NOT REALLY BEEN TALKED ABOUT AS MUCH.

AND I CHALLENGE A LOT OF THESE VOTERS, BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR WHAT THEY WOULD SAY BACK.

AND THAT WHEN I CHALLENGED THEM WHAT I HEARD WAS THAT THEY WOULD FIRST POINT TO SOMETHING ABOUT TRADITIONAL MEDIA WHERE THEY HAVE ALPHA POINT.

THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A MISREPRESENTATION HERE.

HE DIDN'T REALLY SAY THAT.

THEY WOULD FIRST PRESENT SOME ISSUE THAT I WILL SAY MAYBE YOU GOT HALF A POINT.

BUT NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO DENY OR TO QUESTION IF JANUARY 6th HAD HAPPENED WAS FROM TRUMP'S INVOLVEMENT OR TRUMP'S ENCOURAGEMENT, OR EVEN TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

I HEARD EVERYTHING FROM WELL, IT WAS A COUPLE OF BAD APPLES AND THAT HAPPENS TO MAYBE IT WAS ENTRAPMENT.

THE GOVERNMENT ALLOWED IT.

AND THERE, THEY'RE IN THEIR INFORMATION BUBBLE.

THEY DO NOT REALLY TRUST TRADITIONAL MEDIA.

AND THEY HEAR IT FROM THEIR TALK RADIO.

THEY HEAR IT FROM THEIR TV STATIONS.

THEY HEAR IT ON YOUTUBE AND CURRENT X, TWITTER CAME UP A LOT.

SO IT'S NOT THINKING.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT AT LEAST THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE EITHER HEARING OR CONCERNED ABOUT.

AND ADDITIONALLY, THEY WOULD VERY OFTEN POINT TO ME ALL THE OTHER EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT CURRENT PRESIDENTS USE.

AND EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

THAT'S NOT VERY DEMOCRATIC.

SO THEY SAY LET IT BE OUR GUY, RIGHT?

SO THEY SORT OF SAY OKAY, LET IT BE OUR GUY.

AND HE HAS A WAY OF TALKING TO THESE PEOPLE THAT UNDERRATED IN HOW EFFECTIVE IT IS.

I THINK IF YOU'RE NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER, IT'S VERY HARD TO -- YOU MIGHT NOT FEEL IT.

IF YOU'RE NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER, YOU'RE NOT FEELING THAT.

IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT TO TRY AND STEP BACK AND SAY OKAY, HOW DOES THIS FEEL TO PEOPLE WHO DO LIKE HIM?

AND TO PEOPLE WHO LIKE HIM, TO PEOPLE WHO ARE AT LEAST OPEN TO HIM, HE COMES ACROSS IN MY EIGHT YEARS OF TALKING WITH TRUMP SUPPORTERS, HE COMES ACROSS AS GENUINE AND AUTHENTIC.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT IN HOW HIS SUPPORTERS PERCEIVE THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th?

HAS THERE BEEN AN INCREASED TOLERANCE FOR VIOLENCE OR A JUSTIFICATION OF WHAT HAPPENED OVER TIME?

>> SO MY OWN CONVERSATIONS, I DID NOT FIND A SINGLE PERSON WHO DEFENDED IT, RIGHT.

I DON'T DOUBT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK IT WAS JUSTIFIED BECAUSE TRUMP REALLY PLAYS UP THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

SO IF YOU GENUINELY BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A NEFARIOUS FORCE STEALING ELECTIONS, THAT KIND OF CREATES WHAT'S JUSTIFIED KIND OF QUESTION.

PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY WERE TALKING TO ME, OR PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THE KIND OF BASE THERE IS IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE, I DID NOT ENCOUNTER ANYONE SAYING OH, IT WAS GREAT.

IT WAS JUSTIFIED.

BUT WHAT I DID ENCOUNTER IS EXPLAINING AWAY, DOWNPLAYING, BAD APPLES, OR SOME DEGREE OF A CONSPIRACY THAT THIS WAS THE DEEP STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OR TRUMP ENEMIES OTHER THIS OR THAT.

THAT'S WHERE IT GETS INTO THE CONSPIRACY PART, THAT AIDED AND ABETTED AND ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN AS A FORM OF ENTRAPMENT, WHICH COMES FROM A LOT OF THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT YOU ENCOUNTER ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

SO GIVEN THAT, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE ROOTING FOR A REDO OF THAT.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO DISSUADE THEM EITHER.

SO ONCE AGAIN, THE QUESTION PERHAPS IS NOT WHAT THE MOST DIE-HARD SUPPORTERS OF TRUMP THINK, RIGHT.

LIKE THOSE PEOPLE MAY JUST BE COMPLETELY ATTACHED TO HIM, AND THAT MIGHT BE THAT.

AND HE'S GOT THAT.

THE QUESTION TO UNDERSTAND IS THERE IS A LARGE PART OF THE COUNTRY, AND THIS IS KIND OF I THINK WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND AND HEAR, IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS CURRENTLY, THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY THINKS THAT TRUMP WOULD DO A BETTER JOB ON THE ECONOMY.

THEY THINK TRUMP WOULD DO A BETTER JOB ON FOREIGN POLICY.

AND THEY THINK THAT TRUMP WOULD DO A BETTER JOHN ON IMMIGRATION COMPARED TO PRESIDENT BIDEN.

RIGHT.

AND THIS IS NOT -- ONCE YOU GET TO THAT KIND OF MAJORITIES, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TRUMP'S DIE-HARD SUPPORTERS.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE KIND OF COALITIONS THAT CAUSE ELECTIONS TO BE LOST.

>> HAVE THESE PEOPLE WHO YOUR PIECE FOCUSES ON, THE ONES WHO ARE KIND OF GRAVITAING TOWARDS A STRONGER LEADER, WERE THEY THERE IN 2020?

WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT THE 2024 ELECTORATE?

ARE THERE MORE OF THEM NOW?

HAS BIDEN PUSHED PEOPLE MORE TOWARDS THAT CAMP?

WHAT'S DIFFERENT?

>> I THINK IN 2020, A LARGE CHUNK OF THE COUNTRY HAD BEEN TIRED OF TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO REMEMBER, IT WASN'T A HUGE MARGIN.

HE COULD HAVE PLAUSIBLY WON.

IT WAS NOT A HUGE MARGIN.

IT WAS NOT AS MUCH OF A WIN IN A LANDSLIDE SENSE AS ONE WOULD THINK GIVEN ALL THAT HAPPENED.

SO THE SECOND THING IS A LOT OF THINGS HAPPENED UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION, AND I THINK, AGAIN, INFLATION IS A MAJOR THING.

AND UKRAINE WAR, AND EVEN THE MIDDLE EAST SITUATION HAPPENED UNDER HIS WATCH.

AND YOU MIGHT SAY HE DOESN'T RUN THE WORLD.

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT.

AND I WOULDN'T DISAGREE.

BUT TO HIS SUPPORTERS AND TO SOME PEOPLE, IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT, PEOPLE WERE SCARED TO OPPOSE HIM.

THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY.

AND THEY ALSO -- IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

AND THE THIRD THING I THINK PEOPLE ONCE AGAIN ARE UNDERESTIMATING IS THE EFFECT OF AGE.

NOW WE HAVE I THINK 78 VERSUS 81 BY THE TIME NOVEMBER COMES AROUND, WHEN IF IT'S BIDEN VERSUS TRUMP, THAT IS A STRIKINGLY OLD MATCHUP.

SO THERE IS THAT.

AND SOME SENSE, YOU MIGHT SAY WELL, THEIR AGES ARE CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER.

IT IS BOTH STRIKINGLY OLDER THAN AVERAGE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES.

AND THAT'S TRUE.

BUT THE POLLS ARE VERY CLEAR.

PRESIDENT BIDEN'S AGE IS SEEN AS A MUCH BIGGER LIABILITY TO HIM THAN TRUMP'S AGE IS SEEN TO HIM.

IT'S PERHAPS LIKE HIS AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR.

PERHAPS IT'S THE WAY TRUMP SORT OF HIS RALLIES, THE WAY HE TALKS, THE WAY HE COMES ACROSS.

I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHY THAT IS.

BUT IT'S REALLY CLEAR TO ME FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE AND LOOKING AT THE POLLS THAT PEOPLE SEE PRESIDENT BIDEN'S AGE AS SOMETHING THAT MAKES HIM WEAKER AND LESS COMPETENT COMPARE TOAD THEY HAVE THE SAME CRITERIA FOR TRUMP.

SO FOUR YEARS AGO, IT WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT '81.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT 77, 78.

I THINK IT'S A BIG PART OF THE MIX WHERE THINGS ARE RIGHT NOW.

ZEYNEP TUFEKCI, PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS AT PRINCETON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, AN IMPORTANT UPDATE ON A STORY WE'VE BEEN REPORTING EVER SINCE IRAN'S WOMAN LIFE FREEDOM MOVEMENT STARTED.

TWO IRANIAN JOURNALISTS IMPRISONED FOR THEIR COVERAGE OF THE DEATH OF 22-YEAR-OLD MAHSA AMINI HAVE NOW BEEN RELEASED ON JAIL.

AMINI DIED IN THE CUSTODY OF IRAN'S MORALITY POLICE IN 2022 AFTER BEING ARRESTED FOR ALLEGEDLY NOT WEARING HER HIJAB PROPERLY.

NOW NILAFR AND ELODY BROUGHT THE NEWS OF MASSA'S DEATH TO THE WORLD AND THEY HAVE BEEN FREED FROM PRISON.

PROTESTS SPREAD WITH WOMEN COMMANDING MORE FREEDOMS.

THE REPORTERS WERE SWIFTLY ARRESTED AND SPENT OVER 400 DAYS IN PRISON.

BOTH STILL FACE MULTIPLE CHARGES THAT COULD TECHNICALLY CARRY THE DEATH PENALTY.

WE WILL FOLLOW THERE AS CLOSELY AS EVER.

>>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS ON THE PROGRAM EVERY NIGHT, SIAM SIGN UP AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT FROM LONDON.

♪♪