And busy news week in our town hence a special correspondents edition of OT as we focus on fixing the roads.

Still.

Major appointment for the House Budget Committee and the first Republican candidate for governor.

Around the table this week, Chad Livengood, Clara Hendrickson, Lauren Gibbons and Colin Jackson sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record production of Off the Record is made possible in par by bellwether public relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thanks very much.

Welcome to this cold Pure Michigan morning on off the record a busy, busy week we had the governor and everybody is uncle talking about what else roads.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer took center stage at the Detroit Auto Show today, calling for a permanent road fix.

Nothing new there and a more aggressive strategy to build more jobs here.

But she stated the obvious as the divided legislature begins work on both issues.

Both parties will hav to compromise to do this right.

For the Republicans, just the governor says this means means lookin for new fair sources of revenue.

We can't just cut our way to better roads.

And for her two Democratic leaders and their colleagues, the governor says they must agree to this.

Fiscally responsible cuts Will need to be a part of the solution, too.

But the governor's critics argue even though she did have a huge bonding program to fix the roads, it's been six years since she laid another legislative proposal on the table to resolve the differences after her first plan, the gas tax hike went up in flames.

And for those looking for her new plan today, it was not there.

Only this.

So to all my partners in the legislature, let's get back to the negotiating table and hammer out a bipartisan deal to get this done in 2025.

Did you want to hear a plan from her?

Yeah.

And we didn't get one because you campaigned on it six years ago.

But Republicans have a plan to not tax people more and still fix local roads.

I hope we can have a conversation about that.

The governor did have three specific plans to jumpstart the state's strategy to bring more jobs into this state.

A payroll tax cut for automakers, a new payroll tax cut called Hire Michigan.

So the more Michigan employees you hire and the better you pay them, the mor you can save here in Michigan.

More details on all this perhaps coming up in the governor state of the state soon.

So Clara what did you make of the speech?

Well, this is been her marquee promise and plan for a while now.

And she made the opening bid when she first took office, spent a little bit of time since she put another plan on the table.

She didn't unveil anything new and she just said, I'm waitin for a bipartisan solution here.

Matt Hall has taken her up with an offer.

We'll see where it goes, but nothing new.

I mean, it's just the same promise, right, that she's she's been making for for many years.

Chad.

I just arrived here on a three lane highway known as US 127.

And 496 and took the new Trowbridge Bridge, which is beautiful.

It's not open.

It is open.

And it is.

Don't worry they'll close it again.

Well, I mean, after a yea of just nightmare construction, but that nightmare construction, their whole highway reconstruction and a lot of the highwa reconstruction you've seen over the last four years has been pai by these bonds as $3.5 billion, which with interest, MDOT says will cost the taxpayers of Michigan $6 billion over 25 years.

So this is the payoff.

This is the tradeoff, is that I mean, I've called this the get the damn credit card approach to to fixing the damn road just as you have to go.

You have to go borrow money and to pay a lot of interest for it.

Or you can just actuall tax people for the cost of it.

And we have continued in this in this town has been has been in knots about this issue for 20 years now.

We have made almost no progress.

Minus a seven cent gas tax increase and I think a 20% increase, you know, during the year.

Yeah, that was a result that went into effect back in 2016 after, as you might recall, the big ballot proposal went to the to the voters that big two cent sales tax.

The big the grand bargain t save it all figure it all out.

Save the schools.

80% of voters voted it down.

It was it was absolutel stunning on a 4 to 1 margin.

So, you know, good luck, I guess, to the governor in the new legislature and try to figure this out.

There are thes sides are still at loggerheads.

The Republicans want to go take money from schools, $1,000,000,000 basically, and divert it because it's a sales tax paid on gasoline.

And they want to put it into the roads and they haven't changed their position.

And Whitmer hasn't proposed anything new.

She's just saying, let's get to the table.

Yeah, I think that it's it's not surprising that this is coming up now because the governor has been able to say because of this funding plan, hey, we have been fixing something.

I've been able to point to something tangible, whether the bondin was the best way to go about it.

That was the option she had at the time.

And in lieu of, you know, coming up with more funding for the future, it's been reliant on sayin this is my road building record.

It's because of these bonds, we're building these big projects.

But now that money is coming to an end.

And so something needs to come in its place, which is a lot harder to do.

In addition to changing the tax structure on fuel tax, there's been a lot of things thrown out there.

Vehicle miles traveled fee to potentially incorporate some of these e V drivers.

Even toll roads have been suggested.

Whether that's actually serious remains to be seen.

But yeah, I think there's a big void in terms of what the governor plans to do now.

Yeah, I think to echo what Lauren said, there's been a lot of things that have been throw at the wall to see what sticks.

But I do think it's somewhat significant, at least, to hear Whitmer say directly that we do need to raise more revenue.

That's something that lawmakers and policymakers have been very shy to do in the past, especially when it means potentially more taxes.

And you contrast tha with what Republicans are saying now, especially in the House, where they don't want to raise taxes at all.

You know, they're saying that there is many more ways we we can cut budgets in the same way we just heard Whitmer say you can't cut your way into better roads.

Republicans are saying maybe you can.

Well, that is the question.

I mean, if you look at what Mr. Hall put out this week, there is a number to get to $3.1 billion.

You may not like it, but he's got it on paper.

Well, I don't know if anyone else noticed the pla that Speaker Hall unveiled last year was about 2.7 billion, and now it's about 3.1.

Right.

So there's 400 million extra dollars in funding that they've found since.

Going back to the numbers, I'd be curious to sort of see the math because, I mean last Friday was the invitation to take this money.

Here's the problem for the Democrats.

When the Democrats look at a surplus, they get big dollar signs in their eyes.

They want that money A lot of it to go into the general fund.

Right.

And the R's are saying why would you want to do that?

I mean, they had like $7 billion of surplus when they were in power for two years.

They could have actually paid off the bonds and not be saddling us with debt for the next 20 years of debt payments through MDOT.

And there has been no increase in road funding in the last two years, like on the annual increase.

The if you look at MDOT's budget the only increase is earmarked for the bonds.

So we have done nothing new with all the surplus money that the State Government has been sitting on that has collected $600 million of interest.

And and and if you listen to Representative Aragona from McComb County, home of some of the worst roads in in the state, he's talking about local roads.

Whitmer's Whitmer's bond program only could pay for highways.

That' why we have this beautiful new highway in 12 and 96 in East Oakland County, and we're going to and 275 in Wayne County.

And we're going to now tear up part of 696 in Royal Oak Okay.

But if you live on Oak Ridg Road, you're you're out of luck.

If you live on like on Sixteen Mile in Macomb County, you you go you drive hell every single day.

I mean, they finally got a bunc of federal grants to fix Mound.

I used to call it pound road because it was so terrible but that's what Aragona is going to focus on.

These guys are not going to let this go.

They want they want something earmarked for local.

Chad raises a really interesting point.

By recreating all of these roads, you have a lot of diversions that end up on some of these county and city roads and some even worse, which makes them even worse.

And there really has been no long term plan to actually fix those.

You've been hearing it from the County Road Association.

You've been hearing it from all of these local government saying we need help to fix this.

And there's only so much that locals can do.

A lot of locals have raised millage is for roads specifically, but they are they're seeking a state solution.

It feels like we've been talking past each other with that conversation as well, where Republicans are saying, when are we going to get better road funding?

You have Democrats, the lawmakers in the legislature saying, well, we are fixing the roads.

Have you not seen all the construction?

And to that point, the constructions have been on the highways.

It's been on the state roads, It hasn't been on the local roads, in the construction that you've seen has been very limited.

And that's why you still see so many potholes going down Saginaw, Shiawassee, and Lansing.

Why why doesn't the governo want to put a plan on the table?

I mean, she might want to say, I can hear her still saying this.

I'm not going to negotiate with you.

Skubick okay.

Absolutely right.

Okay.

But she's got to negotiate with something.

Why won't she put a plan on the table?

Is there a hidden strategy here that I'm missing?

I mean, it didn't go so well for her the first time she did it.

She did sa she is grateful for Speaker Hall for actually attaching his name to something she said.

That's the first time a GOP leader has done that.

I Leader Nesbitt said last week that they were about 60% of the way there on the negotiations on road funding.

So it seems like they might b picking up from a conversation that's pretty far along.

But I don't know why she doesn't want to attach her name.

I mean, she could say, look, I'm negotiating behind the scenes, be patient, take a deep breath.

But I didn't hear her say that, did you?

Well, this is a governor that likes to play things cautious.

She's known for playing thing a little bit close to her chest and not going too far out on a limb.

So I don't think it's surprising necessarily to see her kind of holding things and waiting to see what Republicans say and what Republicans come u with, especially when any plan that does pass will need to get through the Republican controlled House.

All right.

So let's just be real, real honest here.

This governor still is in the conversation for national office.

And so she's going to play things really safe and not go out and say we need a 45 cent gas tax, we need it.

And she's not going to say that again.

We need it.

We need a taxi, miles of driving.

We need to put a device in every car.

Even though this might be what progressives want and what progressives in Oregon are doing every day now, she is is not going to go walk out on this plank.

She' going to try to push legislators to try to get Joe Tate t do it in before the lame duck.

It was like the marching orders in the lame duck.

Go give me a road funding plan.

And we see how all that went.

And you'll recal from that 45 cent conversation, Democrats were not thrilled about that.

Nobody ever introduced the bill.

No one wanted to have their name attached to a 45 cent gas tax increase.

And the governor reall had to had to keep that promise, you know, just that that was her big pla and no one wanted to accept it.

So, you know, kind of went to the road bonding instead.

So I think there would be a lot of hesitation from her administratio to, you know, at the first term.

Whitmer is a lot different than second term.

Whitmer is how I'd sum it up.

All right.

Let's tal about the budget appointments.

Mr. Hall Going to a couple of people to run appropriations, as they say in the biz The House Republican leader Matt Hall, is going in a different direction by picking Brighton Representative Ann Bolllin to chair the House Budget Committee and Representative Matt Maddoc to be the Republican vice chair.

However, there was speculation in this town before this that the former Republican minorit chair of the Budget Committee, Representativ Sarah Lightner from Springport would get the all important assignment as the chairperson, but she will not.

She and Mr. Hall in the past have had some disagreements, but now they've patched that up.

And Mrs. Lightne says she likes the appointment of Representative Bollin They are good friends.

Representative Bollin, meanwhile, has served on the Budget Committee before and the former township clerk was asked about the budget surplus announced last week.

The special interest groups would love to get part of that $1.7 billion in extr cash for their social programs through the state's general budget.

But the Republican speaker is talking about using most of the money.

But the Republican speaker is talking about using part of the funds for roads and returning other parts to the taxpayers.

So does the new chairperson want to make sure that the surplus does not get into the general fund?

I think it's premature to say we're going to cut here, we're going to spend there.

What is your fear that the Democrats will try to use most of that surplus to put into the general fund for their programs?

I'm not afraid of anything when it comes to it.

The selection of Representative Maddock as vice chair is interesting and that he and the Speaker have had their differences in the past.

He says that was then and now is now.

We're going to work together.

Great.

We've we go back a long time.

We've had our differences, but we've also had some great times together, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

No, it's great.

In the audience was Lansing Democratic Senator Sarah Anthony, who favors the appointment of Boillin as her counterpart in the Michigan House.

Some Democrats do want to push part of the surplus on social programs.

The senator reflects on that When Republicans over the past few years have described us as throwing money away and being irresponsible.

I think the fact that we have enough money in the in the state's coffers to do transformative things for the people of Michigan that says otherwise, that says that we've actually been minding our state's finances pretty responsibly.

The governor will present her budget next month to begin the process formally.

Collin what did you make of this news.

I mean, I thought it was interesting picking Representative Bolli and Representative Maddock, who were together as appropriations chair and vice chair, especially that Representative Maddock pick as you noted in the piece.

Him and Hall hav had their conflicts in the past.

Notably speakin Maddock has had his own conflict with the Republican House Republican Caucus.

Two sessions ago he was removed from the caucus hall, welcomed him back in last year into the fold, and we even saw Maddock is still part of the Freedom Caucus.

You know, and that has been something that was a thorn in a little bit of a thorn in the Hall side earlier on this term.

He was worried they weren' going to support him for speaker Exactly.

So seeing this it seems like a way of keeping maybe potential adversaries or at least some people in your caucus to worry about a little bit closer to you.

But the other thing, too, is, as you saw with Maddock, was doing in his press conference, he was talking about the budget ballooning and how he thought it was time to kind of roll it back in is to roll back some of the spending.

And I wonder how that's going to work with him as appropriations vice chai while still having to negotiate with a Democratic led Senate i a Democratic governor's office.

Yeah I think the budget conversation is going to be a true test as it has been in past years of working of Democrats and Republicans working together in a divided government.

A little bit different this time than it was before the trifecta, becaus there is the Democratic Senate.

So we will see a little bit of back and forth there.

But it's especially interesting.

The state has seen surpluses in every year since COVID, essentially because of changes in consumer behavior and tax revenue.

But it's there's a lot of economi unknowns out there, especially when the Trump administration comes back into power.

So it will be interesting to see how lawmakers choose to use that money, especially considering this may not last forever.

So when Matt Hall was first chosen to be House speaker by the Republican caucus, he said the budget was one of the first things that he wanted to prioritize, just radically overhauling the process.

No more late night votes where this conference report just gets put on lawmaker's desk.

People don't know what they're voting on.

No more por spending that there's no clear understanding of who's getting what and why.

So very curious to see how this process plays out and how different it's going to be.

I think his pick of the minority vice chair was also really notable because he didn't go with leader per his recommendation there.

So you see him kind of trying to repair relationships on the Republican side, but also rejecting the Democratic leaders recommendatio there and potentially fracturing that that relationship moving forward.

Matt Maddock put out a quote the other day.

I came to Lansing to chew bubblegum and cut budgets and I'm all out of bubblegum and Maddock has this kind of nickname, of mad dog.

This this is the most curiou thing you've never really seen.

Like the emphasis of a vice chair of appropriations, much less press conference to announce it.

I mean, so this is in the statement you got two reps from the adjoining districts i Livingston and Oakland County, not in different parts of the state.

And and Bollin is going to be a good cop and that America is going to be bad cop.

And I think Maddock is jus going to be more empowered than ever seen and and is going to be, ever seen and and is going to be, you know, stirring things up in ways that that the administratio probably is not quite ready for.

the administratio probably is not quite ready for.

And this could this could get really interesting.

I would not plan on budgets being passed by June 30th.

I would not plan on budgets being passed by June 30th.

Constitutionally, we can go to September 30th and and and politically, we can go past that.

And I would just sort of think with with Matt Maddock involved here, it's going to it's going to get to a lot different ballgame.

It's worth noting that Representative Maddock has been on the Appropriations Committee before, and he's had some pretty unconventional ideas for cutting budgets including proposing selling off rest stops or the Blue Water bridge, you know, to potentially cut some cost in the transportation funding.

So he's definitely been a proponent of cutting costs to get to a road funding solution before.

And certainly on other issues, he's probably not going to hold back any surprises.

The Blue Water bridge thing comes back because there's a there's a there's a there's a guy in Detroit that owns and owns a bridge who's about to be out of business pretty soon when the new publicly owned Canadian finance Gordie Howe Bridge opens.

And and I'm sure that they wouldn't mind owning owning a different bridge crossin without government restriction a fire sale on the bridge.

Stay tuned, folks.

All right.

Let's talk about Eric Nesbitt running for governor.

He's running.

I don't think that's a surprise anyone.

His name had been sort of routinely floated as one of the potential GOP candidates.

But by moving first, he's sort of, you know, is the first big name that we have, still waiting to see wha happens on the Democratic side.

His a was sort of pretty conventional.

You know, I'm sort of waiting for the one tough nerd like, what's the really unique pitch that we're going to hear from He's a farm boy?

He was a farm boy.

The tractor logo with the stat of Michigan is pretty prominent and all the campaign material so far.

I, I imagine we're going to see many more names come forward as well.

Do you open your campaign looking for votes in Detroit by showing them that you live on a farm in some place?

You're not going to waste anybody hurt, You're not going to win a Republican primary in Detroit, but you are going to try to start winning it in grassroots Michigan Republican circles.

And Eric Nesbitt has has some of that street cre and has been in the front lines.

He's he's one of the longest serving current legislators in our term limit era.

And so he's he's not you know, he can raise money easily.

He can raise money he's got he knows all the lobbyists.

And he has he has everyone's phone numbers and and and frankly, with a with a 19-18 state Senate, he can he can has a lot of other leverage point because it's going to be really not exactly easy to to get things passed.

We already saw Gilchrest had the tie break one tie and so so he's got he's got a platform to work from.

Whether that's enough.

Well, I mean, he's he's virtually unknow outside of southwest Michigan.

I mean, you probably an average voter in Grand Rapids or Kent County may not know who he is, but this is this is the first entry.

But there's still a lot of time in this primary can get real crowded.

And if some of the more experienced statewide candidate came into the fold like a John James, the congressman from Macomb County, who now happens to own a big house in outside of Grand Rapids o the side.

It's a vacation house.

Yes, I get that.

Yes.

But if if he were to enter, I would think it'd be harder and harder for Nesbitt to to to be anything more than the next Tom George.

You left out one thing he does, he's a Trumper.

Right?

Well, yes, he is a Republican.

I mean, he is a Republican.

He was supportive of Presiden Trump or President elect Trump.

I think one of the things about Nesbitt, though, is he's not afraid to step back in a way, take his own positions away from necessarily what the party may want him t do, or at least some leadership.

And I think back to I 2023, I believe, or 2022 when they were passing the SOAR fund bill.

Originally, Nesbitt was in leadership at that poin within the Republican majority.

And I believe he was the highest ranking Republican to vote against the creatin the creation of the SOAR fund.

So he does take his own stances at various points.

He was one of the main people who wanted to keep Michigan's presidential primary election back in February so they wouldn't sacrifice the delegates in the race.

And one of the reasons for that was because at the time when Michigan was talking about moving up to presidential primary, it looked like President Biden was going to be the presumptive Democratic nominee.

But it wasn't so certain that Trump was going to be the presumptive Republican nominee.

And I think Nesbit was one of the folks in the camp who wanted to preserv the Republican primary process.

He did fall in line behind Trump as well, and he never really took a stance as to whether or not he wasn't supportive of Trump, at least not to my knowledge.

I haven't heard him say anything disparaging about Trump at all.

But I do think he has some of his own independent thoughts.

And again, he's been a very vocal.

He's someone that speaks a lot from the Senate floor.

He's very friendly with press, or he at least is very willing to come over and talk to the press desk.

He'll you know, you push back.

But I think at that point, though, he definitely has his own thoughts and his own story to tell.

He was a force to be reckoned with.

The first in make that interesting.

The TIP legislation appears to be moving with bipartisan support.

Yeah, we definitely saw bot from Republicans and Democrats.

Obviously, Republicans made that huge priority last last month, but now Senate Democrats put out a pretty detailed plan to to come up with a way to sort of appease both sides of this issue.

And there are a lot of arguments to be had, you know, both for people who want to see some form of TIP credit still in play to ensure that they are still able to get tips, I think is the concern from a lot of tipped workers.

But there's also, you know, I think I think, you know, in terms of what a legislative fix looks like, there's a lot of different directions it could go.

And some people are arguing it doesn't need to be fixed.

This is what we wanted to see.

So there's still a lot of details that need to be hammered out here.

TIP thing has gotten a lot of the attention, but there also the small business people.

I have to be somewhat relieved that the number is now 50.

If you have 50 or more employees, you're under this.

If not your home free.

Am I reading that correctly?

Yeah.

And the the House Republican and Senate Democrat pla are sort of far apart on this.

I mean, both would exempt more small businesses.

And what the Michigan Supreme Court order does, 50 is high.

I think the estimate is about 1.5 million workers would be exempted from guaranteed paid sick time under that proposal.

Again, it's hard to see that the House Republican plan is the one that will be the final one.

There's still a lot that needs to be compromised and hammered out if lawmakers will do pass the key part of the story there was bipartisan there are Democrats that are willing to walk the plan on this against organized labor.

Yeah, I mean, Senator Kevin Hertel from S Clair Shores is sponsor of it.

You might you might see a Senator Veronica Klinefelt, too, also from McComb County.

Get involved in that kind of legislation.

And if you can get those two vulnerable Dems from Macomb County districts to to to join with Republicans and it's going be pretty hard to stop it in the Senate.

I do.

We think it'll be done by February 21st.

Yay or nay?

Nay, no, I think so.

Yeah.

I'm the eternal optimist.

They're going to hold off, you know.

And I also think that football team will probably win this weekend.

But what do I know.

There's alot in February going o There you go.

Listen thanks for showing up, you guys.

Thank you for tuning in.

And see more off the record right here next week.

Production of Off th Record is made possible in part by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com For more off the record, visit wkar.org Michigan Public Television stations have contributed to the production costs of off the record.