>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER AIR STRIKE AS A REGIONAL WAR THREATENS TO TAKE HOLD.

IVAN WATSON REPORTS ON WHAT PAKISTAN'S RETALIATORY STRIKE ON IRAN COULD LEAD TO.

>>> PLUS, A DOCTOR JUST BACK FROM GAZA TELLS ME THAT SHE SAW HOSPITALS THERE OVERWHELMED BY CHILDREN WITH HORRENDOUS INJURIES.

>>> THEN I SPEAK TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU'S SENIOR ADVISER, MARK REGEV.

>>> ALSO AHEAD, JUST HOW SIGNIFICANT ARE THE HOUTHIS, THESE IRAN PROXIES RAMPING UP REGIONAL TENSIONS.

WALTER ISAACSON TALKS TO MIDDLE EAST EXPERT ELISABETH KENDALL.

>>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THE PENTAGON INSISTS THAT CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS HAS NOT TECHNICALLY SPREAD INTO A WIDER WAR YET, BUT EXPERTS WARN JUST ONE MISCALCULATION COULD CHANGE THAT, AS MISSILES FLY AROUND THE REGION BETWEEN HOSTILE STATES AT AN ALARMING PACE.

THE UNITED STATES TODAY CARRIED OUT FURTHER AIR STRIKES AGAINST HOUTHI MILITANTS IN YEMEN.

ISRAEL, MEANWHILE, WARNING THAT THE LIKELIHOOD OF WAR ON ITS NORTHERN FRONT WITH LEBANON IS, QUOTE, MUCH HIGHER THAN IN RECENT TIMES.

THAT'S THE BACKDROP FOR A DIFFERENT ESCALATION OF HOSTILITIES, THIS TIME BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND IRAN.

TIT FOR TAT AIR STRIKES THAT BOTH NATIONS CLAIM ARE AIMED AT TERROR BASES.

BUT TENSIONS ARE RISING BETWEEN THE TWO NEIGHBORS AS IVAN WATSON NOW REPORTS.

>> Reporter: SURVIVORS SIFTING THROUGH RUBBLE AFTER A SERIES OF DEADLY CROSS-BORDER MISSILE STRIKES.

THIS WEEK'S FLARE-UP BETWEEN IRAN AND PAKISTAN ADDING FUEL TO A REGION ALREADY ON FIRE.

THE ISLAMIC REPUBLICS OF IRAN AND PAKISTAN SHARE A LONG AND POROUS BORDER.

IN A 48-HOUR PERIOD, THEIR MILITARIES HAVE CARRIED OUT TIT FOR TAT DRONE AND MISSILE STRIKES INTO EACH OTHER'S TERRITORY, AN UNEXPECTED CRISIS FOR TWO NEIGHBORS WHO JUST DAYS AGO APPEARED TO BE GETTING ALONG.

ON TUESDAY, PAKISTAN'S PRIME MINISTER HELD FACE-TO-FACE TALKS WITH IRAN'S TOP DIPLOMAT IN DAVOS.

BUT HOURS LATER IRAN CARRIED OUT WHAT IT CALLED PRECISION MISSILE AND DRONE STRIKES ON WHAT IT CLAIMED WERE IRANIAN TERRORISTS IN THE BALUCHISTAN REACH.

PAKISTAN CLAIMEDED A BREACH OF SOVEREIGNTY THAT KILLED AT LEAST TWO CHILDREN.

AND ON THURSDAY THE PAKISTANI MILITARY STRUCK BACK.

>> THIS MORNING PAKISTAN UNDERTOOK A SERIES OF HIGHLY COORDINATED AND SPECIFICALLY TARGETED PRECISION MILITARY STRIKES AGAINST TERRORIST HIDEOUTS IN BALUCHISTAN PROVINCE OF IRAN.

>> Reporter: USING KILLER DRONES, ROCKETS, AND LOITERING MUNITIONS, THE PAKISTANI MILITARY SAYS IT TARGETED SEPARATIST MILITANTS FROM THE BALUCH ETHNIC MILITANT GROUP.

IRANIAN AUTHORITIES SAY AT LEAST TEN PEOPLE DIED, PROMPTING IRAN TO CONDEMN PAKISTAN.

IN FACT, THIS WEEK IRAN ALSO CARRIED OUT MISSILE STRIKES AGAINST NORTHERN IRAQ AND SYRIA.

A DEADLY SHOW OF FORCE AFTER ISIS CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY FOR TWIN BLASTS IN THE IRANIAN CITY OF KERMAN ON JANUARY 3rd, WHICH KILLED SCORES OF CIVILIANS.

>> THIS WAS REALLY PRIMARILY A DEMONSTRATION OF FORCE IN A PLACE THAT IRAN THOUGHT WOULD HAVE LIMITED REPERCUSSIONS IN TERMS OF THE RISK OF ESCALATION.

I THINK THEY UNDERESTIMATED HOW THIS WOULD PUT THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

>> Reporter: FOR ITS PART, THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO BE WILLING TO DE-ESCALATE.

>> IRAN IS A BROTHERLY COUNTRY, AND THE PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN HAVE GREAT RESPECT AND AFFECTION FOR THE PEOPLE OF IRAN.

>> Reporter: THE QUESTION NOW, DOES TEHRAN WANT A CONFLICT?

WITH ITS MUCH MORE POPULOUS NUCLEAR ARMED NEIGHBOR.

>> INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS TIMES.

IVAN WATSON REPORTING THERE.

>>> NEXT, MEDICINE FOR ISRAELI HOSTAGES AND PALESTINIANS HAS ENTERED GAZA, ACCORDING TO QATAR'S FOREIGN MINISTRY.

THOSE MEDICINES ARRIVED AFTER IT BROKERED A DEAL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS TO ALLOW THESE VITAL NECESSITIES IN.

MORE THAN 24,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA SINCE OCTOBER 7th, 10,000 OF THEM ARE CHILDREN, ACCORDING TO PALESTINIAN HEALTH OFFICIALS.

A RECENT CNN INVESTIGATION FOUND THAT MOST HOSPITALS IN NORTHERN GAZA HAVE EITHER BEEN DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

HERE IS AN EXCERPT.

>> Reporter: INSIDE AN AMBULANCE AT AN OUTER HOSPITAL IN NORTHERN GAZA ON NOVEMBER 9th.

NEARBY, AT THE INDONESIAN HOSPITAL THE SAME NIGHT, SHEER PANIC.

THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF WAR DECIMATED GAZA'S HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

AS ISRAEL LAUNCHED AN AIR AND THEN LAND OFFENSIVE ON THE NORTH OF THE STRIP.

OUT OF 22 HOSPITALS IN NORTHERN GAZA, CNN HAS IDENTIFIED 20 THAT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OR DESTROYED BETWEEN OCTOBER 7th AND DECEMBER 7th.

IMAGERY ANALYZED BY CNN SHOWS OVER HALF HAVE BEEN DIRECTLY ATTACKED.

SEVERAL, INCLUDING THE TWO LARGEST IN GAZA, AL-SHIFA AND AL QUDS WAS DIRECTLY ATTACKED BY THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES.

THIS SUGGESTS AT A HOSPITAL CNN PREVIOUSLY FOUND A MISSILE FIRED FROM GAZA WAS LIKELY RESPONSIBLE FOR A DEADLY BLAST.

BUT THIS APPEARS TO BE THE EXCEPTION.

>> IT'S CALLED THE QATARI HOSPITAL.

>> Reporter: ISRAEL AND U.S. INTELLIGENCE SAY HAMAS USED MANY OF THESE HOSPITALS COMMAND AND CONTROL CENTERS, A CLAIM HAMAS DENIES.

WHILE PROTECTED UNDER INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW, A HOSPITAL'S PROTECTION DURING WAR IS NOT ABSOLUTE.

>> THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE THOSE PROTECTION DISEASE BE LOST, AND THAT IS FOR SUCH TIME AS THEY'RE BEING USED FOR MILITARY ACTIVITIES, TO SORT OF FURTHER THE ACTIVITIES OF AN ENEMY.

THAT DOES NOT GIVE CARTE BLANCHE TO MILITARIES TO LAUNCH AN ATTACK HOWEVER THEY WANT.

>> EXPERT CRAIG JONES SPEAKING TO KATELY POGLIS THERE.

ISRAEL SAYS IT DOESN'T TARGET CIVILIAN STRUCTURE, BUT ANY TIME THEY ARE TARGETED, IT'S APPROVED BY THE HIGH COMMAND.

BRITISH OBSTETRICIAN DR. DEBORAH HARRINGTON WENT INTO GAZA OVER CHRISTMAS WITH OTHER INTERNATIONAL NGOs TO WORK THE EMERGENCY ROOM AT THE AL AQSA HOSPITAL.

SHE'S JUST BACK, AND SHE JOINED ME HERE IN THE STUDIO TO DESCRIBE WHAT SHE SAW.

DR. DEBORAH HARRINGTON, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU'VE JUST RETURNED FROM GAZA.

YOU ARE AN OB/GYN, AND YOU WENT TO TREAT WOMEN AND CHILDREN, I GUESS.

WHAT DID YOU SEE THERE?

WHY DID YOU EVEN GO?

>> I WENT BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TO GAZA MANY TIMES.

I'VE BEEN GOING SINCE 2016 AS PART OF A TEACHING GROUP.

I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A CONFLICT.

I'VE NEVER BEEN IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND WHAT I SAW WAS IN AL AQSA, WHICH IS IN THE MIDDLE AREA WAS A HOSPITAL THAT WAS OVERWHELMED.

IT WAS OVERWHELMED WITH MEMBERS OF IN PATIENTS, IT WAS OVERWHELMED WITH EMERGENCIES, TRAUMA CASES COMING IN ALL THE TIME AT A LEVEL THAT IT SIMPLY WASN'T SET UP TO DEAL WITH.

AND IT HAD SWOLLEN TO MASSIVE NUMBERS OF PATIENTS BOTH IN-PATIENTS, BUT ALSO JUST DISPLACED PEOPLE.

SO THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TAKING REFUGE IN THE AREAS AROUND THE HOSPITAL, IN THE HOSPITAL.

NORMALLY, THERE ARE ABOUT 150 IN-PATIENTS, AND THAT HAD SWELLED I THINK WHILE WE WERE THERE TO ABOUT 600 TO 700.

>> GOSH.

>> IN-PATIENT, AND THEN ANOTHER 200 TO 300 PRESENTING THROUGH THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT EVERY DAY.

>> SO WHAT DID YOU NOTICE MOST?

ARE THEY WOMEN, CHILDREN, MEN, FIGHTING AGE, FIGHTERS?

WHO ARE THEY?

>> I WAS EXPECTING IN SOME WAYS THAT THIS WAS A WAR SITUATION, AND THEREFORE, I WAS SORT OF ANTICIPATING THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE PERHAPS YOUNG MEN OR, YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF CASUALTIES, ACROSS THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF SOCIETY.

ACTUALLY, WHAT I OVERWHELMINGLY SAW WAS CHILDREN.

AND ON ONE DAY, I WAS THINKING THIS IS NEW YEAR'S DAY, AND THERE WAS ONE MOMENT WHERE I JUST LOOKED AT MY WATCH, AND IT WAS ABOUT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON, AND WE HAD MASS CASUALTIES COMING IN.

AND IN FACT, IT WAS FROM A SCHOOL SHELTER WHERE THERE HAD BEEN BOMBARDMENT AND BLAST, AND WE HAVE MASS CASUALTIES COMING IN.

AND I LOOKED AROUND THE RESOURCE ROOM, WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE SICKEST PATIENTS ARE TAKEN, AND OUT OF THE FIVE PATIENTS IN THE RESOURCE ROOM, FOUR OF THEM WERE CHILDREN.

ONE WITH AN INJURY, WITH A HORRENDOUS INJURY, A SHRAPNEL INJURY TO THE BRAIN, WEREN'T GOING TO SURVIVE.

AND THEN THE OTHER CHILDREN WITH HORRENDOUS MIX OF OPEN FRACTURES, PARTIAL AMPUTATIONS, OPEN CHEST WOUNDS, HORRENDOUS LACERATIONS FROM SHRAPNEL TO THE CHEST AND HEAD AND BURNS.

AND THAT WAS EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AROUND THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

MY OVERWHELMING IMPRESSION WAS WHY ARE THERE SO MANY CHILDREN HERE, YOU KNOW.

THERE WERE SO MANY CHILDREN.

>> WHY WERE THERE SO MANY CHILDREN HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW, OTHER THAN THE BOMBARDMENT WE WERE OBVIOUSLY TAKING CASUALTIES FROM THE AREA IMMEDIATELY AROUND THE HOSPITAL, AND THEY WERE COMING IN BECAUSE THOSE AREAS WERE BEING TARGETED, WERE BEING BOMBARDED WITH SNIPER FIRE, SHELLING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE SEEING.

AND, YOU KNOW, ALONGSIDE THE HORRENDOUS CASUALTIES, THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE THAT CAME IN DEAD.

AND SOME OF THE SCENES I NEVER EXPECTED TO SEE.

I THOUGHT I WAS REALLY WELL PREPARED FOR THIS.

I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT I MIGHT SEE.

BUT THAT STRUCK ME AND WILL LIVE WITH ME FOREVER.

>> CAN I ASK YOU SOMETHING.

YOU ASKED YOUR QUESTION WHY DO WE SEE ALL THIS.

WAS THERE ANYBODY TO ASK A QUESTION TO?

WERE THERE ISRAELI SOLDIERS AROUND?

COULD YOU SAY DON'T TARGET AROUND THE HOSPITAL?

WHY YOU TARGETING?

WAS THERE ANY DIALOGUE ON TRYING TO KEEP A HOSPITAL AN SHELTERS SAFE?

>> SHELTER SAFE.

SO, NO, I DIDN'T SEE ANY THE TEAM WE WERE WITH WERE IN DIRECT CONTACT TO DECONFLICT THE AREAS WE WERE IN.

SO EVERY DAY THERE WAS A CHECK WITH THE IDF ABOUT WHERE IT WAS SAFE FOR US TO TRAVEL IN, IF THE HOSPITAL WAS SAFE.

AND THEN WE HAD TO BE WITHDRAWN ON THE LAST TWO DAYS ALONG WITH THE RMSF COLLEAGUES, AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THE AREA SUDDENLY BECAME DESIGNATED AS A RED ZONE, AND THAT MEANS THAT IT IS NOW AN ACTIVE.

>> HOW DID YOU KNOW?

WHO TOLD YOU.

>> THERE ARE AREAS, BLOCKS LITERALLY NUMBERED AND OUR SECURITY, WE'RE IN CONTACT WITH THE IDF.

AND THEY SAID YOU CAN NO LONGER, THIS IS NO LONGER DECONFLICTED.

THIS IS NOW A RED ZONE IN THE AREA AROUND THE HOSPITAL.

>> OKAY.

SO WHEN WE ASKED THE IDF FOLLOWING A VERY DETAILED FORENSIC INVESTIGATION BY CNN OF SOME 20 HOSPITALS OVER A PERIOD OF TWO MONTHS OF THIS WAR, THEY TOLD US THAT THEY DO NOT INTENTIONALLY OPERATE AROUND THERE.

THEY SAID THEY DON'T -- THEY'RE NOT OPERATING AROUND AL AQSA, AND THAT IF THEY DO, THEN IT'S BEEN APPROVED AT THE HIGHER ECHELONS.

THAT'S WHAT THE IDF TOLD US WHEN WE AIRED THIS PIECE.

SO THE NEXT QUESTION IS WAS THERE ANY HAMAS AROUND?

COULD YOU IDENTIFY ANYBODY OF THEM THAT YOU COULD SAY WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE ENDANGERING US?

DO YOU HAVE ANY NOTION THAT THEY MIGHT BE IN THE AREA?

>> WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO NOTION.

WE'RE HUMANITARIANS THERE TO WORK IN THE HOSPITAL ALONGSIDE SOME OF OUR COLLEAGUE, SOME OF WHOM I KNEW ALREADY.

THERE WAS CERTAINLY NOBODY I COULD IDENTIFY.

IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN PEOPLE, BUT I DIDN'T SEE ANYONE.

THERE WAS NO ONE WEARING ARMY FATIGUES OR ANYONE.

>> CAN I PLAY FOR YOU A SOUND BITE FROM AN AMERICAN SENATOR WHO WHEN I ASKED ABOUT GETTING AID IN, GETTING MEDICINE IN, AND THE WHOLE DECONFLICTION, WHICH YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, THIS IS HIS RESPONSE JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO TO ME.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE ISRAELI INSPECTION PROCEEDINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, WE VISITED A WAREHOUSE, CHRISTIANE, THAT WAS FULL OF ITEMS THAT WERE REJECTED.

I'M TALKING ABOUT HEALTH KITS FOR THE DELIVERY OF BABIES.

I'M TALKING ABOUT WATER FILTRATION SYSTEMS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT WATER QUALITY TESTING SYSTEMS.

THESE WERE REJECTED BY THE ISRAELI SCREENING AUTHORITIES.

AND WHEN THEY SAY ONE ITEM HAS TO BE REJECTED OFF THE TRUCK, THEY SEND THE ENTIRE TRUCK BACK.

AND THESE TRUCKS SOMETIMES WAIT UP TO 20 DAYS TO GET IN.

>> I SEE YOU NODDING.

DOES THAT RING TRUE?

>> WE HAD TO ENTER IN THROUGH THE RAFAH BORDER.

SO WE CAME IN THROUGH EGYPT.

WELL FLEW INTO CAIRO AND UP THROUGH SINAI AND ACROSS THE RAFAH BORDER.

AND THERE MUST HAVE BEEN ABOUT 300 TRUCKS WAITING TO GO IN.

AND WE DID SEE TRUCKS THAT HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN TURNED BACK.

AND ONE THAT REALLY STICKS WITH ME IS THERE WAS A TRUCK IN A REALLY LARGE LORY FULL OF BABIES NAPPIES OR DIAPERS.

AND THE PILOTS I PRESUME THEY'D BEEN CHECKED OR SOMETHING AND THEY WERE GOING IN THE OTHER DIRECT.

>> THEY'D BEEN SENT BACK.

>> THEY'D BEEN SENT BACK AT THE BORDER.

THAT'S RIGHT.

>> SO THESE ARE CHILDREN'S DIAPERS, NAPPIES.

>> YES.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOU?

YOU'RE AN OB/GYN.

>> YES.

THERE ARE TERRIBLE STORIES OF WOMEN GIVING BIRTH IN THE STREET.

>> YEAH.

>> WHO SOMETHING LIKE 180 WOMEN PER DAY GIVE BIRTH.

APPARENTLY 15% OF THEM, I THINK THAT'S THE NUMBER, ARE UNLIKELY TO DO WELL.

>> YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

>> TELL ME, WHAT IS THE SITUATION TODAY FOR WOMEN, PREGNANT WOMEN AND THE BABIES THEY DELIVER.

>> THERE IS NO ANTI-NATAL CARE FOR WOMEN.

SO WOMEN ARE NOT GETTING ANY CARE IN THEIR PREGNANCY.

EVERY WOMAN THEY DID SEE, I ASKED HER WHEN SHE WAS LAST SEEN, AND IT WAS OCTOBER.

THEY'RE NOT GETTING -- A REAL PROBLEM IN GHAZNI WAY, IT'S ABOUT 50% OF PEOPLE ARE ANEMIC.

THEY HAVE NO SUPPLEMENTS.

AND THE WOMEN I SAW WERE REALLY SEVERELY ANEMIC.

IF YOU ARE ANEMIC AND YOU BLEED AT THE TIME OF YOUR BIRTH, YOU MAY DIE, BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T GOT THE RESERVES.

WOMEN, THERE IS A THING CALLED VULNERABLE WOMEN, AND IN HUMANITARIAN CRISES, SITUATIONS, WOMEN BECOME ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE, AND THAT MEANS THAT THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO MISCARRY.

THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE STILL BIRTHS.

THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO DELIVER PREMATURELY, YOU KNOW.

THERE ARE WOMEN IN AL AQSA, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A WOMAN WHO HAD NO ANTI-NATAL CARE, AND ACTUALLY ARRIVED THE DAY BEFORE I ARRIVED.

A AND THE OBSTETRICIANS WANTED TO TELL ME ALL ABOUT THIS WOMAN.

SHE'D ARRIVED FITTING.

>> FITTING?

>> SHE WAS HAVING SEIZURES AS A RESULT OF A PREGNANCY CALLED ECLAMPSIA.

IF YOU HAVE UNTREATED HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, IT CAN GO ON TO CAUSE FITS.

AND THIS WOMAN ARRIVED UNCONSCIOUS, IN CONTINUOUS HAVING CONTINUOUS SEIZURES.

SHE WAS TREATED.

HER BABY WAS DELIVERED BY CESAREAN SECTION.

IT WAS ON THE NEONATAL UNIT.

BUT THAT WOMAN WAS THEN ON THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT WITH A CEREBRAL HEMORRHAGE AS A RESULT OF HER SEIZURES.

AND THAT'S THE SORT OF THING THAT'S HAPPENING.

AND THAT IS JUST ONE OF THOUSANDS OF STORIES.

MANY WOMEN CAN NEVER EVEN REACH A HOSPITAL TO GIVE BIRTH.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GOT TRANSPORT.

THERE IS NO ELECTRICITY.

IT'S DANGEROUS.

THEY MIGHT BE ENTERING A HOSPITAL THAT IS SURROUNDED BY, YOU KNOW, BY CONFLICT, BY BOMBARDMENT.

IT'S NOT SAFE FOR THEM TO MOVE.

THEY CAN'T EVEN CALL AN AMBULANCE BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A MOBILE SIGNAL.

SO THEY CAN'T SUMMON CARE.

>> YOU'VE BEEN TO GAZA, AS YOU SAID, MANY TIMES.

>> YES.

>> THE HEALTH SYSTEM THERE HAS NEVER BEEN FABULOUS, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF HOSPITALS.

>> THERE ARE A LOT OF HOSPITALS.

>> WHAT IS THE STATE NOW?

BECAUSE WE HEAR THE WHOLE SITUATION IS COLLAPSING.

>> I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A SORT OF SYSTEMATIC DISMANTLING, REALLY, OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE A KIND OF A FALL, REALLY OF ONE HOSPITAL FALLS AFTER THE OTHER AFTER THE OTHER.

AND HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS, HEALTH CARE FACILITIES SHOULD BE PROTECTED.

THEY'RE THERE FOR -- THEY'RE THERE FOR EVERYBODY.

>> I WANT TO PLAY THIS.

WHEN YOU SAY SHOULD BE PROTECTED, I TALKED TO A FORMER U.S. MEGA U.S.

COMMANDER WHO KNOWS A BIT ABOUT WAR AND GOING AFTER TERRORISTS AND CIVILIANS.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> I HAVE FELT THAT THE HOSPITAL SHOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT OPEN, AL-SHIFA IN PARTICULAR.

BUT ALL OF THEM TREAT THE CIVILIANS IN THIS HOSPITALS, CONTROL THEM, THOUGH, ENSURE THAT THE TUNNELS UNDERNEATH THEM, HEADQUARTERS OR WHATEVER IS BEING DONE IN THEM.

>> YEP.

>> IS NOT ALLOWED AND IS ELIMINATED.

BUT, AGAIN, THEY NEED TO PROVIDE FOR THE PEOPLE, WITHOUT QUESTION.

>> HE'S SAYING WHATEVER THE CASE IN WAR, YOU NEED TO PROVIDE FOR THE PEOPLE.

DO THE PEOPLE HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO?

>> THEY'VE GOT NOWHERE.

AND THEY'RE GETTING LESS AND LESS.

>> HOW DO YOU FEEL AS A DOCTOR?

YOU'RE A PROFESSOR, DO NO HARM.

>> I -- I JUST FEEL DESPERATE.

I ALSO FEEL ASHAMED AND SHOCKED THAT WE'RE DOING THIS TO FELLOW HUMANS.

YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAY, I'M A DOCTOR.

MY WHOLE CAREER, MY WHOLE REASON FOR GETTING UP IN THE MORNING IS TO GO AND HELP PEOPLE.

AND ACTUALLY, THEY'RE NOT BEING -- THE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS, AS EXCELLENT, AS COMMITTED, AS PAGTS NAT AS THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT.

THEY HAVEN'T GOT SUPPLIES.

THEY'RE HOPING WITH NUMBERS THAT THEIR FACILITIES ARE NOT SET UP TO DEAL WITH.

THEY'RE LOSING STAFF ALL THE TIME.

OBSTETRICIAN I SPOKE TO THIS MORNING SAID THEY HAVE GOT PEOPLE EVERYWHERE, GIVING BIRTH IN THE CORRIDORS AND IN THE HALLS.

THEY HAVEN'T GOT STAFF TO DELIVER THEM.

THEY HAVEN'T GOT CAPACITY IN THE HEATER TO DO CESAREAN SECTIONS.

BABIES ARE GOING TO BE ASPHYXIATED, ARE GOING TO DIE AS A RESULT OF NOT BEING ABLE TO MANNER.

THEY ALSO SAID THEIR NEONATAL UNIT IS FULL OF INFECTION.

IT'S FULL OF BABIES DYING FROM INFECTION.

THEY JUST CAN'T COPE.

AND THERE ISN'T THE CAPACITY TO DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE SO MANY HEALTH CARE FACILITIES HAVE BEEN DISMANTLED.

>> WHAT DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT HUNGER?

BECAUSE JUST NOW, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN BACK, THE U.N. HAS SAID OFFICIALLY THAT THEY ARE NOTICING ABSOLUTE FAMINE CONDITIONS FOR A PORTION OF PEOPLE THERE.

>> THE SORT OF HUMANITARIAN AID, THE HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE IS JUST INADEQUATE.

BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION.

I VISITED A U.N. CAMPUS.

IT HAD 40,000 PEOPLE IN THE CAMP IN A 60,000 SQUARE METER.

SO JUST OVER A SQUARE METER PER PERSON.

AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THAT, THERE WAS ANOTHER 10 TO 20,000 OF, YOU KNOW, TEMPORARY SHELTERS THAT PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN ABJECT CONDITIONS.

THERE WAS ONE TOILET FOR 615 PEOPLE.

AND PEOPLE ARE GOING HUNGRY.

CHILDREN PARTICULARLY, COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, SUCH AS DIARRHEAIAL DISEASES BECAUSE OF SANITATION.

THERE IS 94% LESS WATER GOING IN.

>> 90% LESS WATER?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> DR. DEBORAH HARRINGTON, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> AND DR. HARRINGTON TOLD ME THAT SHE HOPES TO GO BACK TO GAZA TO CONTINUE HER MEDICAL WORK.

>>> NOW BENNY GANTZ, A MEMBER OF THE ISRAELI WAR CABINET SAYS HAMAS IS NO LONGER IN CONTROL IN LARGE PARTS OF THE GAZA STRIP, BUT ISRAEL BELIEVES THAT 132 HOSTAGES ARE STILL BEING HELD THERE.

JOINING ME FROM TEL AVIV NOW IS MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER.

MARK REGEV, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO CAN I ASK YOU FIRST ABOUT WHAT DR. HARRINGTON TOLD ME.

THIS DOVETAILS WITH WHAT SO MANY IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN SAYING.

AND I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU, ALL YOUR FRIENDS HERE IN THE U.S., EVERYWHERE SAY OF COURSE ISRAEL HAD TO GO ON THE OFFENSIVE AGAINST THE TERROR THAT WAS COMMITTED ON OCTOBER 7th, BUT THAT IT TURNS OUT THE LONGER IT GOES ON, IT'S NOT BEING DONE RIGHT.

SO I GUESS I WANTED TO KNOW FROM YOU HOW LONG CAN A DEMOCRACY -- YOU KNOW, YOU CALL YOURSELF A MORAL DEMOCRACY -- CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS THAT'S UNFOLDING IN GAZA RIGHT NOW, THE CHILDREN AND THE WOMEN?

>> I MEAN, WE'VE JUST HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CRISIS IN THE GAZA HEALTH SYSTEM.

AND THE OBVIOUS QUESTION HAS TO BE ASKED WHY IS THERE A CRISIS IN THE GAZA HEALTH SYSTEM.

ISRAEL DIDN'T WANT IT.

BUT AS HAS BEEN REPORTED AND DOCUMENTED, HOW MANY HAS A DELIBERATE STRATEGY OF BUILDING ITS MILITARY STRUCTURE INSIDE HOSPITALS.

WE WOULD HAVE MUCH PREFERRED THAT AS HUMANITARIAN SITES THAT HOSPITALS WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE CONFLICT.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, HAMAS TOOK A DECISION, A STRATEGIC DECISION, NOT IN ONE HOSPITAL, NOT IN TWO HOSPITALS, BUT ALL ACROSS THE GAZA STRIP, HAMAS BUILT MILITARY INFRASTRUCTURE INSIDE AND UNDERNEATH HOSPITALS.

WE SAW TUNNELS.

WE SAW WEAPONS.

HOSTAGES.

THE ONCE YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO WHO WERE KIDNAPPED, ABDUCTED ON OCTOBER 7th, THEY REPORTED BEING TAKEN TO AND HELD IN BASEMENTS INSIDE HOSPITALS.

NOT FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT.

THEY WERE HELD PRISONER THERE.

THEY WERE ABUSED THERE.

THERE IS VIDEO FROM HOSPITAL VIDEOS SHOWING THE ABDUCTED PEOPLE BEING RUSHED THROUGH THE HOSPITAL.

WE KNOW A COMMAND AND CONTROL CENTERS UNDERNEATH HOSPITALS.

WE WERE FORCED TO FIGHT AROUND HOSPITALS, AND WHEN WE WENT INTO HOSPITALS, WE DID SO AS SURGICALLY AS IS HUMANELY POSSIBLE TO AVOID HARMING THE STAFF, THE PATIENTS AND SO ON.

BUT IF THERE IS A CRISIS IN THE HEALTH SYSTEM IN GAZA, IT'S CLEARLY BECAUSE OF HAMAS' DELIBERATE BEHAVIOR OF USING THOSE HOSPITALS AS A SHIELD AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT'S A SHIELD FOR ITS MILITARY MACHINE.

>> MARK REGEV, I KNOW THAT'S YOUR POSITION, AND I KNOW THAT YOU FOUND SOME TUNNELS.

>> IT'S THE TRUTH.

>> I KNOW.

I'VE SEEN THEM.

I'VE SEEN YOUR PICTURES OF THEM.

WE HAVE SEEN ALSO MANY INVESTIGATIONS BY WESTERN MEDIA ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVEN'T ACTUALLY YET CONNECTED A HOSPITAL ROOM TO A COMMAND CENTER OR THE A CONNECTION WITH A TUNNEL.

HOWEVER, THAT IS YOUR POSITION.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS GENERAL PETRAEUS, SENATOR VAN HOLLEN, LEADERS ALL OVER THE WORLD, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, OF FRANCE, OF THE UK, EVERYWHERE, SAYS YEP, YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE, BUT THESE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES ARE JUST TOO MUCH.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THERE NOT A MILITARY WAY TO SEPARATE CIVILIANS AND TAKE CARE OF CIVILIANS AS PETRAEUS SAID?

HE HAS BEEN THROUGH MANY WARS AGAINST TERRORISTS IN CIVILIAN AREAS.

WAS THERE NOT A BETTER WAY?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY CIVILIANS KILLED.

AND I REPEAT THAT.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY CIVILIANS CAUGHT UP IN THE CROSSFIRE BETWEEN HAMAS AND THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, WE'RE UP AGAINST THE BRUTAL AND HORRIFIC ENEMY WHO DELIBERATELY EMBEDS ITSELF NOT JUST IN HOSPITALS, BUT IN RESPECTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, IN SCHOOLS, IN U.N. FACILITIES, IN MOSQUES.

AND UNDERNEATH GAZA, UNDERNEATH CITIES OF GAZA WHERE CAMERAS OFTEN CANNOT GO, THERE IS A SUBTERRANEAN TERROR NETWORK OF TUNNELS, OF BUNKERS, OF MISSILE LAUNCHING SITES, OF ARMORIES OF COMMAND AND CONTROL.

HAMAS HAS HAD MORE THAN 16 YEARS TO EMBED ITSELF.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS OPERATION WILL TAKE TIME.

AND THOUGH WE'RE DOING OUR BEST TO AVOID CIVILIANS GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE CROSSFIRE, HAMAS HAS A DELIBERATE STRATEGY OF USING CIVILIANS AS A HUMAN SHIELD, MAKING OUR JOB SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT.

>> YOU'VE SAID THAT.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

IN THAT CASE, WHY, THEN, DOES A DOCTOR, A BRITISH DOCTOR WHO WENT IN WITH THE APPROVAL OF ISRAEL AND EGYPT AND ALL THE OTHER PERMISSIONS THEY NEED TO GET WITH NGOs, WHY DOES SHE WITNESS A TRUCK THAT IS BEING TURNED BACK FULL OF BABIES' DIAPERS?

WHY DOES SENATOR VAN HOLLEN TELL ME AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, REMEMBER, FRIENDS OF ISRAEL, THAT THE ONUS ON HELPING SOME OF THESE CIVILIANS GET HUMANITARIAN AID IN IS ON YOU NOW, BECAUSE IT'S SO COMPLICATED TO GET THESE TRUCKS IN.

AND WE'RE SEEING THEM BEING TURNED BACK.

IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU SHOULD AND CAN SPEED UP THE DELIVERY OF HUMANITARIAN AID AND MEDICINE?

>> SO I WANT TO BE CLEAR.

THAT TRUCK SPECIFICALLY, AND IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE, BECAUSE THAT TRUCK SPECIFICALLY WAS BOTH AUTHORIZED BY ISRAEL AND INSPECTED BY ISRAEL.

AND IT COULD HAVE GONE INTO THE GAZA STRIP FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT OBVIOUSLY, THERE WERE PROBLEMS AT THE BORDER WHERE ISRAEL IS NOT ON THE EGYPTIAN-GAZA BORDER FOR IT TO BE STOPPED, AND THERE WASN'T ROOM FOR SOMETHING TO GO IN THAT DAY.

BUT ISRAEL HAS OPENED UP THE ADDITIONAL CROSSING OF KEREM SHALOM BECAUSE WE WANT THE MAKE SURE HUMANITARIAN AID DOES REACH THE GAZA STRIP, THAT THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF GAZA IS NOT THE TARGET OF OUR MILITARY OPERATION.

THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES INVOLVED HERE, BUT THAT ISRAEL DID NOT PREVENT THAT TRUCK FROM GOING IN.

I WANT TO BE 100% CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

>> AND YET THE SENATOR SAYS -- I'M TALKING ABOUT THE BORDERS ON THE ISRAEL-GAZA BORDER, THAT IT'S WAY TOO SLOW, SLOW, SLOW, SLOW.

AND THAT IT'S ON YOU, BECAUSE YOU CONTROL THAT TO ACTUALLY SPEED IT UP.

ALSO, WE KNOW FROM THE U.N. THAT THERE ARE FAMINE AND PREFAMINE CONDITIONS STALKING GAZA, AND I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WELL, THE RELATED QUESTION IS CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT THERE HAS BEEN WHAT QATAR SAYS, SOME KIND OF DEAL TO SEND IN SOME KIND OF HUMANITARIAN AID.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS FOR THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES AND FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA.

>> SO FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO BE CLEAR.

IN THE FIRST WEEK OF THIS WAR, THE SECURITY CABINET OF ISRAEL TOOK A DECISION THAT AS WE PURSUE HAMAS TO DESTROY ITS MILITARY MACHINE, AND WE MUST, AT THE SAME TIME IN PARALLEL, THERE WILL BE NO RESTRICTIONS WHATSOEVER ON FOOD, WATER, MEDICINE GOING INTO THE GAZA STRIP.

AND THAT IS OUR POLICY.

>> SO WHY DID -- SAY THERE WAS A SIEGE?

HE SAID IT HIMSELF.

NO FOOD, NO WATER, NO FUEL, NO MEDICINE.

THAT'S NOAV GALLANT SAID.

ON OCTOBER 9th.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING IN?

>> YES, GOING INTO GAZA.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CROSSINGS FROM ISRAEL.

SO AT THE BEGINNING, WE ALLOWED THAT TO GO THROUGH THE EGYPTIAN CROSSING AT RAFAH.

AND THEN WE OPENED UP A FEW WEEKS LATER, WE OPENED UP WHEN WE SAW THERE WAS A GREATER NEED.

WE OPENED UP THE CROSSING, KEREM SHALOM, WHICH IS OUR CROSSING.

BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, FOLLOWING THE OCTOBER 7th MASSACRE, THE FEELING IN ISRAEL WAS, YOU KNOW, THE CROSSINGS WERE ATTACKED BY THE HAMAS TERRORISTS.

THEY WERE BLOWN UP.

THE WHOLE IDEA THEY JUST ATTACKED US, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE BUSINESS AS USUAL WITH GAZA, THAT OF COURSE WAS DIFFICULT.

IN THE END WE TOOK A DECISION TO OPEN UP THE ISRAELI CROSSING.

NOW WE UNDERSTAND, TO BE FRANK, THAT WHAT WE HAVE WILLING TO INSPECT AND SEND IN, WE COULD RECEIVE MUCH MORE TODAY FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO SEND IT TO GAZA THAN WE ARE CAPABLE OF DEALING WITH.

IF THERE IS A HOLDUP, IT'S NOT BUZZ OF ISRAEL.

>> OKAY.

AGAIN, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE U.S.

SENATOR SAYS, WHO SAW IT.

LET ME ASK YOU A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

PARTLY BECAUSE OF WHAT THE WORLD IS WITNESSING AND WHAT LEADERS AROUND THE DEMOCRATIC WORLD ARE WITNESSING TO THEIR INCREASING UNEASE, AND THAT IS THE CIVILIAN TOLL, YOU SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING.

THERE IS A GROWING -- I'M GOING TO USE THE WORD COALITION OF ISRAELI ALLIES SAYING THAT THERE MUST BE IN RETURN FOR NORMALIZATION, AS YOU WANT WITH SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHERS IN THE REGION, THERE MUST BE AN ABSOLUTE PALESTINIAN PROCESS TO STATEHOOD AND AN END OF THE OCCUPATION.

YOUR OWN PRIME MINISTER HAS APPARENTLY COMPLETELY SAID NO TO THAT.

I'M GOING TO JUST PLAY A LITTLE PIECE OF WHAT HE SAID IN A SPEECH TO THE NATION TODAY.

>> Translator: ANY AGREEMENT WITH OR WITHOUT AGREEMENT, THE STATE OF ISRAEL MUST CONTROL SECURITY BETWEEN THE JORDAN RIVER TO THE SEA.

AND THE CLASHES OF SOVEREIGNTY IDEA, I'M TELLING MY AMERICAN FRIENDS, I STOPPED THE SECURITY THAT WOULD HAVE HURT ISRAEL.

THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO, EVEN TO OUR GREATEST FRIENDS WHEN HE HAS TO.

>> SO THAT'S IT, THEN.

NO POLITICAL SOLUTION.

YOU'RE BASICALLY TELLING YOUR BIGGEST FRIENDS AND YOUR BIGGEST MILITARY SUPPLIERS, THE UNITED STATES, THAT NO, YOU WON'T CONSIDER THAT KIND OF POLITICAL SOLUTION.

>> I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HEAR WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAYS IN ITS ENTIRETY.

HE HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THE PALESTINIANS SHOULD HAVE ALL THE POWERS TO RULE THEMSELVES, BUT NONE OF THE POWERS TO THREATEN ISRAEL.

AND THE SECOND HALF OF THAT FORMULA, NONE OF THE POWER TO HURT ISRAELIS, ESPECIALLY RELEVANT ON WHAT HAPPENED OCTOBER 7th, WE DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE A REPEAT OF THAT HORRIFIC ATTACK ON ISRAEL BY THE HAMAS TERRORISTS OR ANY TERRORISTS FOR THAT MATTER.

SO TO FIND A FORMULA WHERE THE PALESTINIANS CAN RULE THEMSELVES, BUT NOT IN A POSITION TO THREATEN ISRAEL, THAT'S -- I THINK THAT'S THE FORMULA THAT CAN HELP US MOVE FORWARD AND FIND SOLUTIONS THAT WILL BE GOOD FOR ISRAELIS AND GOOD FOR PALESTINIANS TOO.

>> IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I HEARD THE PRIME MINISTER SAY GRANTED, IT WAS IN TRANSLATION, BUT THAT IT HAD TO BE ESSENTIALLY, I'M COINING A PHRASE FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA.

FROM THE JORDAN RIVER TO THE MEDITERRANEAN, THERE MUST BE ISRAELI SECURITY.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> YES.

>> WHICH FLIES IN THE FACE OF WHAT YOUR PARTNERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF AN END TO OCCUPATION AND A PALESTINIAN STATE.

SO I WANT TO ASK YOU PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE SAUDIS.

BECAUSE THAT WAS ON THE TABLE.

YOU'RE A DIPLOMAT.

YOU KNOW THIS BETTER THAN I DO.

IT WAS ON THE TABLE BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, AND IT'S CROPPED UP AGAIN.

WE HEARD THE SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER IN DAVOS TALKING ABOUT IT.

I JUST SPOKE TO PRINCE TURKEY BIN FAISAL, FORMER AMBASSADOR, FORMER INTELLIGENCE CHIEF.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WHAT THEY BELIEVE NEEDS TO BE THE SOLUTION.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF TALK BEING PUT OUT BY AMERICANS, BY EUROPEANS, ABOUT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

BUT THEY'VE BEEN TALKING THE TALK WITHOUT WALKING THE WALK.

I THINK WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THEM TO PUT THEIR FEET DOWN AND SIMPLY GO AHEAD AND WORK WITH SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE AREA TO ESTABLISH A PALESTINIAN STATE AND TO END THE FIGHTING.

THE FIRST IMPORTANT THING THAT MUST BE DONE IS TO STOP THE KILLING.

>> AND MARK REGEV, JUST TODAY YOUR PRESIDENT, ITZHAK HERZOG CALLED ON DIALOGUE ON ISRAEL, THE PALESTINIANS OVER TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO END THE ENDLESS CYCLE OF VIOLENCE AND TO PREVENT EVER AN OCTOBER 7th HAPPENING AGAIN.

SO, AGAIN, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT THIS IS ALL COMING TO A HEAD RIGHT NOW?

IT SEEMS THAT THE PRIME MINISTER IS TRYING TO WARD IT OFF.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, FRANKLY, MANY OBSERVERS THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT HIM AND HIS OWN POLITICS AND STAYING IN POWER THAN IT IS ABOUT A PROPER, JUST, AND FAIR AND SECURE SOLUTION.

>> CHRISTIANE, YOU AND ME HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS PROCESS FOR MORE YEARS THAN WE'D LIKE TO REMEMBER.

AND I'D LIKE TO REMIND YOU OF THE LAST SPEECH THAT PRIME MINISTER YITZHAK RABIN GAVE IN THE KNESSET JUST BEFORE HE WAS ASSASSINATED BY A BRUTAL ENEMY OF PIECE AND RECONCILIATION, A FANATIC THAT I HOPE WILL REMAIN IN JAIL FOREVER AND EVER.

RABIN SAID THAT -- AND HE BELIEVED IN PEACE.

HE WAS THE FATHER OF THE OSLO PROCESS.

HE SAID IN FINAL STATUS PEACE, THE PALESTINIANS WILL HAVE LESS THAN A STATE.

BECAUSE LIKE NETANYAHU TODAY, RABIN UNDERSTOOD THAT ISRAEL WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SECURITY CONTROL IN WAYS THAT WOULD LIMIT THE FULL EXERCISE OF PALESTINIAN SOVEREIGNTY.

NOW IN THE PEACE PROCESS SINCE THEN, AND AS YOU KNOW, THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN TALK ABOUT DEMILITARIZED AND SECURITY CONTROLS AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

THIS IS WHAT ISRAEL IS TALKING ABOUT.

AND ESPECIALLY AFTER OCTOBER 7th, TO ASK THE ISRAELI PUBLIC, THE ISRAELI PEOPLE TO SAY WE'LL LIGHT PEDAL SECURITY, THAT SECURITY ISN'T THE HIGHEST PRIORITY TO KEEP OUR PEOPLE SAFE, THAT IS TO IGNORE REALITY.

AND IF THE PALESTINIANS REALLY WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ISRAEL, I THINK THEY HAVE TO BE WILLING TO UNDERSTAND THOSE CONCERNS.

THEY ARE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS, AND THAT THE IDEA THAT ANY AREAS NEXT TO ISRAEL WILL HAVE TO BE SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS THAT ALLOW ISRAEL TO DEFEND ITSELF, BY ITSELF IF NEED BE.

THAT HAS TO BE THE BASIS OF ANY POLITICAL SETTLEMENTS AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> I MEAN, THAT IS YOUR VERY CLEAR POSITION.

AND YES, I HAVE, AS YOU SAY, WITNESSED THIS PRIME MINISTER HOLD THAT POSITION, AND HERE WE ARE.

NOW, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT -- WHAT IS THE RESULT AFTER 100 DAYS IN YOUR WAR AGAINST HAMAS?

THE FRENCH PRESIDENT SAID THE TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF HAMAS.

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE?

IF THAT'S THAT, THE WAR WILL LAST TEN YEARS.

JOURNALIST RONEN BERGMAN HAS WRITTEN THE MILITARY PRESSURE IS NOT LEADING TO THE RELEASE OF HOSTAGES.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THE HOSTAGES.

THE FAMILIES STILL DON'T BELIEVE IT'S NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

>> IT'S DEFINITELY THERE AT THE TOP.

AND LET ME BE CLEAR, WE ACHIEVED AMAZING SUCCESS IN NOVEMBER WHERE WE GOT ALMOST HALF THE HOSTAGES OUT.

110 PEOPLE RELEASED, PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THE MILITARY PRESSURE ISRAEL WAS APPLYING.

THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON.

HAMAS DIDN'T RELEASE THE HOSTAGES BECAUSE THEY SUDDENLY BECAME NICE PEOPLE.

NO.

THEY WERE RESPONDING, AS PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SAID, THEY RESPOND TO PRESSURE.

AND ISRAEL WAS APPLYING THE PRESSURE THROUGH OUR MILITARY MIGHT.

NOW IF WE WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THE ADVICE OF PEOPLE IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AT THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER TO GO FOR SOME SORT OF HUMANITARIAN PAUSE THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT, YOU'LL RECALL, WE NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE OUT.

AND THEY WERE WOMEN AND CHILDREN, AS YOU WILL RECALL.

SOME VERY YOUNG CHILDREN.

ALL HELD BY HAMAS.

THEY WERE RELEASED.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR SUCCESSES SO FAR OF OUR OPERATION.

BUT AS WE GO FORWARD, WE MANAGED TO DESTROY IN NORTHERN GAZA HAMAS' ABILITY TO WORK IN AN ORGANIZED MILITARY FRAMEWORK, BATTALION AND BRIGADES.

THEY STILL HAVE OF COURSE THE ABILITY TO CAUSE US HARM.

BUT AS A FIGHTING FORCE THEY CANNOT LONGER.

AND WE'LL GET THERE IN THE SOUTH TOO.

AND IN THE SOUTH OF THE GAZA STRIP AS WELL.

WE CAN WIN THIS WAR, AND WE WILL DESTROY THE HAMAS MILITARY MACHINE.

WE'LL DO IT, CHRISTIANE, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO CHOICE.

WE REFUSE TO LIVE ANY LONGER NEXT TO THIS TERROR ENCLAVE.

AND ISRAELI PARENTS HAVE TO WORRY THAT IN MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT TERRORISTS WILL CROSS THE BOARD BORER AND MURDER THEIR CHILDREN.

NO, WE REFUSE TOE LIVE THAT WAY ANY LONGER.

>> MARK REGEV, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE U.S.

LAUNCHED ITS FIFTH ROUND OF MISSILE STRIKES AGAINST THE HOUTHIS IN YEMEN TODAY.

WALTER ISAACSON DIGS INTO THE ROOTS OF THE CRISIS WITH MIDDLE EAST EXPERT ELISABETH KENDALL.

THEY SPOKE JUST BEFORE THE LATEST ROUND OF STRIKES.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND DR. ELISABETH KENDALL.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE, WALTER.

>> THE U.S. JUST CONDUCTED THIS WEEK ITS THIRD MILITARY OPERATION AGAINST THE HOUTHIS, WHO CONTROL MUCH OF YEMEN, INCLUDING THE CAPITAL AFTER A NINE-YEAR CIVIL WAR.

THE U.S.

PUT THE HOUTHIS BACK ON THE DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATION LIST.

WHO ARE THE HOUTHIS?

AND HOW DID IT COME TO THIS.

>> THE HOUTHIS ARE A GROUP THAT EMERGED IN THE NORTHWEST OF YEMEN.

SO IN THAT BOTTOM CORNER OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA.

NOW, THEY TAKE THEIR NAME FROM THEIR FORMER LEADER, HUSSEIN AL HOUTHI, WHO WAS KILLED IN 2004, AND ARE NOW CONTROLLED BY HIS BROTHER, ABDEL MALEK AL HOUTHI.

SO THE FAMILY GROUP THAT RULES THE HOUTHI; BUT THEY'RE MUCH MORE THAN A TRIBE, THEY'RE A RELIGIOUS, MILITARY GROUPING.

THAT'S EVOLVED ITS RELIGION IN ITS POLITICS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE POLITICAL ARM IS CALLED ANSAR ALLAH, WHICH MEANS PARTISANS, SUPPORTERS OF GOD.

AND THEY HAVE A BRAND OF RELIGION CALLED ZAIDISM, WHICH IS A BRANCH OF SHIAISM.

AND THAT IS IMPORTANT WAS SHIAISM IS THE KIND PRACTICED IN ISSUE.

WE SHOULDN'T THINK OF THEM AS A SMALL REBEL GROUP.

THEY ACTUALLY CONTROL FERRET IN ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF YEMEN'S POPULATION LIVES.

AND THAT'S ABOUT 20 MILLION PEOPLE.

AND THEY'VE BEEN AT WAR FOR THE LAST NINE YEARS IN A CIVIL WAR, AND SEVERAL YEARS BEFORE THAT, SINCE 2004.

SO THEY'RE QUITE A CONSIDERABLE ADVERSARY.

THEY SHOULD NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED.

>> WELL, YOU SAY AT THE CORE, IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE A SHIA ISLAM GROUP.

AND THE CIVIL WAR IN YEMEN HAS BEEN FOUGHT BETWEEN SUNNI FORCES AND THE HOUTHI SHIA FORCES.

IS THAT AN OVERSIMPLISTIC DIVIDE THAT WE IN THE WEST MAKE BETWEEN SUNNI AND SHIA?

OR IS THAT REALLY AT THE CORE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING BOTH IN THE REGION AND IN YEMEN?

>> IT'S CERTAINLY TRUE TO SOME EXTENT TO DESCRIBE THIS AS A SECTARIAN WAR BETWEEN SUN NICE SHIIS.

BUT IT'S MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT.

ON THE ONE HAND WE HAVE THE SUNNIS BACKED BY SHIA IRAN, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, THE SO-CALLED INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED GOVERNMENT BACKED BY SAUDI ARABIA, WHICH IS SUNNI, AND THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES.

BUT ULTIMATELY, THIS CONFLICT INSIDE YEMEN WAS DOMESTICALLY GENERATED BEFORE SECTARIAN CONCERNS CAME TO THE FORE.

IT'S ABOUT CONTROL OF POWER, TERRITORY, AND RESOURCES.

AND IT'S SIMPLY THAT THOSE SECTARIAN NARRATIVES HAVE BEEN GLUED ON TO THESE MUCH MORE FUNDAMENTAL STRUGGLES.

SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOLVED AT THAT DOMESTIC LEVEL IN VERY PRACTICAL TERMS IF THAT CONFLICT IS TO GO AWAY.

>> WELL, THEY'RE IN THE NEWS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE YEMEN BORDERS THE RED SEA, AND THE HOUTHIS HAVE BEEN USING THEIR ARSENAL OF DRONES AND MILITARY TO ATTACK SHIPPING IN THE RED SEA.

I THINK THEY'RE WHAT, 17,000 SHIPS THAT GO THROUGH THE RED SEA EVERY YEAR.

I MEAN, ONE FIFTH OF THE CARGO COMING TO THE EAST COAST OF THE UNITED STATES IS THERE.

A LOT OF THE OIL GOES THROUGH THERE.

TELL US WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THESE ATTACKS, AND IS THAT WHY THE U.S. HAS BEEN RETALIATING?

>> I THINK THAT THE THREATS TO GLOBAL SHIPPING AND THE KNOCK-ON EFFECTS THAT THAT HAS ON OUR ECONOMIES HAS CERTAINLY FOCUSED THE INTEREST OF THE U.S., THE UK, AND OTHERS IN PUTTING A STOP TO THIS IN A WAY THAT NINE YEARS OF CIVIL WAR, THE HOUTHIS TRYING TO TAKE OVER INSIDE YEMEN ITSELF NEVER WOULD HAVE GAINED OUR ATTENTION IN THIS WAY.

BUT LET'S JUST ZOOM OUT SLIGHTLY.

THE LOCATION OF THE HOUTHIS DOWN THERE IN THE RED SEA IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE IT COMPLETES A JIGSAW PUZZLE OF IRANIAN PROXIES AND PARTNERS IN THE REGION.

IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP, SURROUND ISRAEL.

SO WE'VE GOT THE HOUTHIS THERE TO THE SOUTH OF ISRAEL, AND OF COURSE WE HAVE HAMAS IN THE WEST OF ISRAEL IN THE GAZA STRIP.

AND THEN TO THE NORTH, WE HAVE HEZBOLLAH, ANOTHER IRANIAN PROXY.

AND THEN IN THE NORTH AND THE NORTHEAST WE HAVE IRAN-BACKED SHII MILITIAS.

THE HOUTHIS ARE A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF COMPLETING THAT CIRCLE OF PRESSURE ON ISRAEL.

>> AND ARE THE HOUTHIS OFFICIALLY ALIGNED?

THEY WORK HAND IN GLOVE WITH HEZBOLLAH AND HAMAS?

>> THE HOUTHIS ARE PART OF THE SO-CALLED AXIS OF RESISTANCE, WHICH IS CONTROLLED BY IRAN, OR AT LEAST PARTNERED TO IRAN.

AND I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THEY'RE VERY CLOSE TO HEZBOLLAH AND HAMAS.

IT'S SIMPLY THAT THEY HAVE MANY OF THE SAME AIMS.

AND THAT GOES FOR IRAN TOO.

THE HOUTHI SLOGAN IS DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO ISRAEL, A CURSE ON THE JEWS, AND VICTORY TO ISLAM.

THAT CHIMES VERY STRONGLY WITH IRAN'S OWN POLITICAL SLOGANS.

BUT IT WOULD BE TOO MUCH TO SAY THAT IRAN HAS DIRECT COMMAND AND CONTROL OF THE HOUTHIS.

IRAN'S ARMS, ITS SUPPLY OF WEAPONS, ITS TRAINING AND ITS INTELLIGENCE HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT IN FACILITATING WHAT THE HOUTHIS ARE DOING, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE THE CASE IF IRAN SUDDENLY STEP AWAY OR TRIED TO STAND THE HOUTHIS DOWN THAT THIS WOULD END, BECAUSE THE HOUTHIS HAVE VERY GOOD REASONS OF THEIR OWN FOR CONTINUING THESE ATTACKS IN THE RED SEA.

>> WHAT ARE THEIR GOOD REASONS OR REASON OF THEIR OWN?

>> WELL, THEY HAVE DOMESTIC REASONS.

REGIONAL REASONS, INTERNATIONAL REASONS.

AT A DOMESTIC LEVEL, THIS IS VERY OPPORTUNE FOR THE HOUTHIS.

IT ENABLES THEM TO POSITION THEMSELVES AS THE DEFENDERS OF PALESTINE, AS THE HEROES OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AT A TIME THERE AREN'T ARE VERY MANY POLITICAL BASES, POWER REGIMES OR GOVERNMENTS SPEAKING UP FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

SO THAT'S MADE THEM QUITE POPULAR.

NOT JUST WITH THEIR BASE, WHICH IS BY THE WAY VERY TIRED AFTER ALMOST A DECADE OF WAR, BUT ALSO MORE BROADLY IN YEMEN AND THE ARAB WORLD.

AND THEN REGIONALLY, IT WORKS FOR THE HOUTHIS, BECAUSE THEY MANAGE TO GAIN MORE LEVERAGE OVER SAUDI ARABIA.

SAUDI DOESN'T WANT TO ANTAGONIZE THE HOUTHIS AT A TIME WHEN IT'S TRYING TO EXTRACT ITSELF FROM A VERY AWKWARD AND EXPENSIVE WAR THAT IT'S BEEN PURSUING AGAINST THE HOUTHIS IN YEMEN.

AND IT IS ON THE CUSP OF BEING ABLE TO DO THAT.

AND FINALLY, INTERNATIONALLY, WELL, THE HOUTHIS HAVE GAINED MASSIVE PUBLICITY FOR THEMSELVES AND FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

AND THEY'VE ENSURED THAT WHAT MIGHT HAVE SEEMED TO US LIKE A FARAWAY PROBLEM IN ISRAEL IS REALLY BROUGHT INTO OUR ATTENTION ZONES BY THIS ATTACK ON GLOBAL SHIPPING AND ITS AFFECT ULTIMATELY ON OUR WALLETS.

>> I JUST READ A VERY GOOD ARTICLE YOU WROTE ON ALL OF THIS.

AND I THINK YOU MENTION THAT THE HOUTHIS WERE PLANNING ATTACKS ON THE RED SEA EVEN BEFORE THE OCTOBER ATTACK BY HAMAS ON ISRAEL.

SO WOULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT THAT?

OR IS THIS REALLY IS A REACTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY WHETHER THIS WAS PART OF A WELL-PLANNED STRATEGY THAT IRAN HAD IN MIND WITH ITS PARTNERS THAT WAS GOING TO RAMP UP GRADUALLY BEGINNING WITH THE 7th OF OCTOBER ATTACKS BY HAMAS ON ISRAEL.

THERE ARE SOME SIGNS THAT THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE CASE.

AS YOU SAY, THE HOUTHIS WERE MILITARIZING THE RED SEA, A COUPLE OF ISLANDS, AND BRINGING IN THE KINDS OF WEAPONRY THAT WAS REQUIRED FOR THESE RED SEA ATTACKS JUST BEFORE HAMAS ACTED IN OCTOBER.

AND WHAT IS VERY STRIKING IS THAT THE DIFFERENT PARTNERS IN IRAN'S SO-CALLED AXIS OF RESISTANCE HAVE GRADUALLY RAMPED UP THEIR ACTIVITY IN A WAY THAT MAKES THEM LOOK LIKE THEY'RE BEING REACTIVE AND PROPORTIONATE.

BECAUSE THEY'RE RESPONDING TO WHAT ISRAEL'S BEEN DOING AND WHAT AMERICA IS NOW DOING.

IT MAKES -- IT FRAMES THEM AS NOT JUST THE AGGRESSORS, BUT AS THE DEFENDERS.

IT COULD BE PARTS OF RATHER A SMART STRATEGY, OR IT COULD BE SIMPLY OPPORTUNISTIC.

>> AS WE SAID, THE NEWS RIGHT NOW IS THAT IN THE PAST DAY OR SO IT'S BEEN DECIDED TO PUT THE HOUTHIS BACK ON WHAT IS CALLED I THINK THE SPECIALLY DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATION LIST.

THAT'S WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS DOING.

I THINK AN ALLIANCE WITH THE UNITED KINGDOM.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO PUT THEM ON THAT LIST, AND WHY DID THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TAKE THEM OFF THE LIST WHEN TRUMP HAD THEM ON A SIMILAR TERRORIST LIST?

>> SO TRUMP DID HAVE THEM ON THAT TERRORIST LIST, BUT WE MUST REMEMBER THAT TRUMP ONLY PUT THEM ON THAT LIST A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE HE LEFT OFFICE.

SO IT WAS ALMOST LIKE IT WAS A GIFT TO THE SAUDIS AS HE PARTED FROM OFFICE.

AND ALSO -- >> LET ME STOP YOU THERE TO EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD BE A GIFT TO THE SAUDIS.

>> SO, OF COURSE, THE SAUDIS HAD BEEN FIGHTING THE HOUTHIS IN A WAR SINCE THEY ENTERED YEMEN'S CIVIL WAR IN MARCH 2015 AND HAD BEEN ADVOCATING FOR AMERICA TO PUT THEM ON THAT TERRORIST LIST.

AND AMERICA HAD RESISTED THAT RIGHT UP UNTIL TRUMP'S LAST DAYS IN OFFICE.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE U.S. HAD RESISTED IS PROBABLY THE ADVICE OF DIFFERENT HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS, INCLUDING THE UNITED NATIONS THAT THIS WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY CATASTROPHIC FOR THE POPULATION OF YEMEN, WHICH HAD ALREADY SUFFERED GREATLY.

THERE WAS A SITUATION WHICH IS NOT MUCH BETTER NOW WHERE ABOUT 80% OF THE YEMENI POPULATION NEEDS HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

NOW IF YOU DESIGNATE THE HOUTHIS, THEN THAT MAKES IT REALLY HARD FOR HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS TO GET THAT VITAL AID AND MEDICINE IN.

BECAUSE MOST OF THE POPULATION AFFECTED LIVES IN THE HOUTHI AREAS.

>> SO IS IT A GOOD IDEA FOR THEM TO -- FOR THE U.S. AND THE UK TO PUT THEM BACK ON A TERRORIST LIST?

>> SO IT ISN'T A GOOD IDEA.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE HOUTHIS DON'T DESERVE TO BE ON THE TERRORIST LIST.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THE KNOCK-ON EFFECTS OF THAT.

IT DOESN'T HURT THE HOUTHIS.

FOR THEM, IT'S A BADGE OF HONOR.

IT HURTS THE GENERAL POPULATION WHOSE ALREADY SUFFERING.

AND IT ALSO MIGHT HAVE KNOCK-ON EFFECTS IN SCUPPERING THE DOMESTIC PEACE PROCESS INSIDE YEMEN.

THERE HAS BEEN AN UNEASY TRUCE IN YEMEN SINCE 2022.

IT'S NOT OFFICIALLY A TRUCE, BUT IT HAS MORE OR LESS HELD.

AND NOW THE UNITED NATIONS IS JUST ABOUT BROKERING A POLITICAL PROCESS FOR YEMENIS TO MAKE PEACE WITH ONE ANOTHER AND THE HOUTHIS ARE A KEY PART OF THAT.

IF THE U.S.

PLACES THE HOUTHIS ON A TERROR ORGANIZATION, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW THE UNITED NATIONS CAN INCLUDE THEM AS A LEGITIMATE POLITICAL AUTHORITY IN THE DOMESTIC PEACE TALKS.

IF THOSE PEACE TALKS DON'T GO AHEAD, THEN YEMEN CIRCLES BACK INTO A CIVIL WAR.

SO THERE IS A LOT AT STAKE.

>> IT DOES SEEM IF THEY'RE PART OF THE U.N.

DESIGNATED PEACE PROCESS, THAT IT'S THE HOUTHIS THAT HAVE DISRUPTED THIS BY SUDDENLY STARTING THE ATTACK INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING IN THE RED SEA.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

BUT THE HOUTHIS ARE TRYING AND TO SOME DEGREE THEY'RE ACTUALLY SUCCEEDING IN SEPARATING ENTIRELY WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN THE RED SEA FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE YEMEN.

THEY'RE PITCHING THEIR RED SEA ATTACKS AS SOMETHING THAT IS 100% GEARED TOWARDS BRINGING WORLD ATTENTION TO THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIANS.

AND THEY SAY IF ISRAEL AND AMERICA STOP THEIR AGGRESSION IN GAZA AND AGAINST PALESTINE, THEN THEY WILL STOP THEIR ATTACKS.

THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT AT ALL?

>> WELL, I THINK WE CAN'T COMPLETELY DISMISS IT.

THERE IS A GENUINE EMPATHY AND SYMPATHY WITH THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE.

BUT WE OUGHT TO ALSO BE SKEPTICAL.

IT WORKS VERY WELL FOR THE HOUTHIS POLITICALLY FOR ALL THE REASONS I OUTLINED.

AND I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION HERE THAT THERE IS NOT THAT MUCH EVIDENCE THAT THE HOUTHIS ARE WILLING TO SETTLE FOR A POWER SHARING AGREEMENT INSIDE YEMEN.

THEY'RE ALWAYS FLEXING THEIR MUSCLES WHETHER THEY'VE SIGNED AN AGREEMENT.

THEY FEEL REMORSE AND ALWAYS TRIED TO GO BACK AND GET MORE.

SO THIS COULD BE JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT WHERE THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF SHARING POWER.

THEY SIMPLY WANT TO KEEP FINDING EXCUSES TO CARRY ON.

WHAT I SHOULD SAY IS I DON'T THINK THEY WANT ALL-OUT WAR WITH THE U.S. THAT COULD BE EXISTENTIAL FOR THEM.

AND I DON'T THINK THEY EXPECT IT, BECAUSE LIKE MANY PEOPLE, LIKE MANY COMMENTATORS, NOBODY THINKS THE U.S. IS GOING TO PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND IN YEMEN.

AND NOR DO THE HOUTHIS THINK THAT.

BUT SOME KIND OF LOW-LEVEL CONFLICT TIT FOR TAT STRIKES, THAT WORKS WELL FOR THEM.

THAT FEEDS INTO THEIR NARRATIVES.

>> YOU JUST SAID THAT TIT FOR TAT STRIKES WORK WELL FOR THE HOUTHIS.

BUT THE U.S.

RECENTLY HAS GONE THROUGH ITS THIRD ATTACK ON THE HOUTHIS.

IS THAT HELPING OR HURTING THE HOUTHIS THESE LAST FEW WEEKS OF U.S. AND ALLIED MILITARY STRIKES ON THE HOUTHI FORCES.

>> YES.

AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

BECAUSE THE RATIONALE OF COURSE IS THAT THESE STRIKES ARE SUPPOSED TO HURT THE HOUTHIS.

BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS WHY THAT'S NOT REALLY THE CASE.

THE FIRST IS THAT THE HOUTHIS ARE VERY ADEPT AT HIDING THEIR WEAPONS.

THEY'VE ALSO SUFFERED MANY, MANY AIR STRIKES OVER THE 25,000 AIR STRIKES DURING THE COURSE OF THE CIVIL WAR BY THE SAUDI-LED COALITION, AND THEY STILL KEPT GOING.

IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT THEY CAN WEATHER THESE AIRSTRIKES.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY HAVE BEEN FRAMING THE UNITED STATES AS AN AGGRESSOR, AS AN IMPERIALIST POWER THAT WANTS TO BE AT WAR WITH ISLAM.

SO THESE STRIKES I KNOW PLAY TO THAT NARRATIVE.

AND WHILST THE HOUTHIS CAN BE RELATIVELY ASSURED THAT THE AMERICANS WON'T WANT TO GO IN WITH GROUND FORCES, THEY CAN JUST KEEP GOING.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT WAR LOGIC FROM OURS.

THEY'RE VERY TOLERANT OF HIGH CASUALTIES.

THEY ARE NOT THAT CONCERNED ABOUT THE CYCLES OF MISERY THAT THEIR ACTIONS INFLICT ON THEIR POPULATIONS, AND THEY HAVE WAR ALMOST AS A WAY OF LIFE, BECAUSE THEY'VE NOW BEEN AT WAR FOR ALMOST THE BETTER PART OF 20 YEARS WITH A COUPLE OF YEARS OFF IN BETWEEN.

SO THEY CAN JUST KEEP GOING.

>> I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT COULD -- HOW THIS COULD POSSIBLY WORK OUT FOR THE WEST OR THE U.S.

IN THE SENSE THAT THE SAUDIS FOR WHAT, NINE YEARS HAVE BEEN TRYING VERY HARD TO PUSH BACK THE HOUTHIS TO BEAT THEM.

AND THE SAUDIS HAVE USED ENORMOUS NUMBERS OF MISSILES.

THEY'RE IN THE REGION, AND IT HASN'T WORKED AT ALL.

CAN THE HOUTHIS BE DEFEATED BY A FEW RANDOM ATTACKS BY U.S. DRONES WHEN THE SAUDIS COULDN'T DO IT?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THEY CAN.

YOU PAINT A VERY REALISTIC PICTURE.

WE HAVE TRIED ALL SORTS OF OTHER MEASURES.

SANCTIONS HAVEN'T WORKED.

CURBING THE FLOW OF FUNDS TO THE HOUTHIS HAVEN'T WORKED.

JUST PUTTING THE MULTINATIONAL MARITIME FORCE IN THE RED SEA AS A WARNING AND A THREAT AND A WAY OF BATTING AWAY MISSILES, THAT HASN'T WORKED, WHICH IS WHY THE U.S. HAS NOW HAD TO RAMP UP TO THIS KIND OF DIRECT MILITARY ACTION.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS WE COULD DO?

MAYBE WE COULD TRY HARDER WITH MEDIATION.

AMAN WOULD BE A GOOD ROUTE BECAUSE AMAN HAS NOT JOINED THE SAUDI-LED COALITION AGAINST THE HOUTHIS AND HAS OPEN CHANNELS TO BOTH THE HOUTHIS AND IRAN.

AND PERHAPS WE COULD RAMP UP THAT INDIRECT MILITARY ACTION.

THINGS THAT THE HOUTHIS COULDN'T POINT TO THE UNITED STATES AND SAY THAT WAS THEM.

AND MAYBE ALSO SPEND MORE TIME BUILDING UP LOCAL FORCES IN YEMEN WHO HAVE SPENT THE LAST NINE YEARS TRYING TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE HOUTHIS.

ULTIMATELY, THOUGH, I THINK IT'S QUITE HARD TO SEE ANY OF THIS WORKING WITHOUT TAKING AWAY THIS MORAL HIGH GROUND THAT THE HOUTHIS HAVE CLAIMED RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, WHICH IS THAT THEY ARE DEFENDING PALESTINE.

SO UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE TO SOLVE THAT OVERALL CONFLICT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE, I THINK THE HOUTHIS CAN JUST KEEP GOING.

>> DR. ELISABETH KENDALL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

>>> AND FINALLY, HIS FACE IS RECOGNIZABLE AROUND THE WORLD.

A REDHEAD BABY BOY.

TODAY MARKS THE FIRST BIRTHDAY OF KFIR BIBAS, THE YOUNGEST HOSTAGE TAKEN FROM ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 7th.

RELATIVES AND FAMILY MEMBERS HELD A RALLY IN TEL AVIV WEARING T-SHIRTS IN A NOD TO HIS HAIR COLOR.

THEY PLEADED FOR KFIR'S RELEASE AND THE RELEASE OF HIS 4-YEAR-OLD BROTHER ARIEL AND THEIR PARENTS WHO WERE ALSO ABDUCTED ON OCTOBER 7th.

IT'S NOT CLEAR WHETHER ANY ARE STILL ALIVE.

A COUSIN OF THE FAMILY TOLD CNN THAT BABY KFIR IS NOT THE ENEMY OF HAMAS.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

GOODBYE FROM LONDON.