>> Keller: I'M JON KELLER WITH WBZ TV.

TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON:" BIG TROUBLE BREWING DOWN IN D.C. AS A POTENTIALLY ECONOMY-DAMAGING SHOWDOWN OVER THE DEBT CEILING HEATS UP.

MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN SAYS SHE HAS A PLAN TO -- SHE'S FURIOUS GOOD IT, AND SHE JOINS ME IN-STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT THAT, HER PUSH TO REGULATE CRYPTO-CURRENCY, AND MORE.

THEN, A MAJOR STORM IS EXPECTED TO DROP RAIN AND SLEET ON US, BUT YET ANOTHER MISS FOR SIGNIFICANT SNOW IN BOSTON.

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO WINTER AROUND HERE?

GBH METEOROLOGIST DAVE EPSTEIN JOINS ME.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> Keller: GOOD EVENING.

THE UNITED STATES HAS NOW OFFICIALLY REACHED ITS BORROWING LIMIT, PROMPTING THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT TO TAKE A SERIES OF "EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES" SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN PAY ITS BILLS.

THAT IS, AT BEST, A SHORT-TERM FIX.

BUT TO AVOID LONG-TERM DEFAULT-- THINK UNPAID SOCIAL SECURITY AND VETERANS BENEFITS, AMONG OTHER NIGHTMARISH CONSEQUENCES-- TREASURY SECRETARY JANET YELLEN IS URGING LEADERS IN CONGRESS TO "ACT PROMPTLY TO PROTECT THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES."

BUT REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS ARE INSISTING ON DEEP CUTS IN FEDERAL SPENDING IN EXCHANGE FOR RAISING THE BORROWING LIMIT.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE SAY THEY'RE UNWILLING TO CONSIDER.

>> IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE WITHOUT CONDITIONS.

THERE SHOULD BE-- WE SHOULD NOT BE NEGOTIATING AROUND IT.

IT IS THE-- IT IS THE DUTY, THE BASIC DUTY OF CONGRESS, TO GET THAT DONE.

>> Keller: SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?

THE SENIOR SENATOR FROM MASSACHUSETTS, ELIZABETH WARREN, JOINS US NOW.

WELCOME SENATOR.

>> THANK YOU.

GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Keller: YOUR COLLEAGUE JOE MANCHIN DEALING WITH NEW COMMITTEES TO PROPOSE SPENDING CUTS AROUND HAVE THESE EXPEDITED TO THE FLOOR.

WHO'S GOT THE BETTER IDEA?

>> LOOK I'M GOING TO THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY.

THIS IS A MANUFACTURED CRISIS.

THE DEBT CEILING IS NOT REAL IN THE SENSE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH CONSTRAINING SPENDING.

WE'VE ALREADY AUTHORIZED ALL THAT SPENDING.

THIS IS ABOUT THE UNITED STATES FOLLOWING THROUGH ON ITS LEGAL OBLIGATIONS.

BUT HERE'S THE DEAL.

THE REPUBLICANS DON'T REALITY CARE ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING AND YOU KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT?

I KNOW THAT FOR MULTIPLE REASONS.

WHAT THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT THE WEALTHY AND THE WELT CONNECTED JUST DON'T PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE IN TAXES.

FIRST BILL OUT OF THE HOPPER FOR REPUBLICANS, WAS TO CUT FUNDING TO THE IRS SO THE IRS DOESN'T HAVE MONEY TO GO AFTER WEALTHY TAX CHEATS.

SECOND THING THEY PUT RIGHT INTO THE RULES FOR THE HOUSE THIS TIME AROUND, IF ANYBODY WANTS TO DO ANY SPENDING NO NO NO, IT WILL ADD TO THE DEBT CEILING BUT IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THE BILLIONAIRES YOU CAN ADD TO THE DEBT CEILING ON THAT.

OUR PROBLEM IS A PROBLEM ON THE REVENUE SIDE.

IT IS A PROBLEM THAT THE WEALTHY AND THE WELL CONNECTED ARE NOT PAYING A FAIR SHARE IN TAMPS.

SO WE WANT TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM IF THE REPUBLICANS ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE NATIONAL DEBT THEN FINE.

LET'S STITCH UP SOME OF THE CORPORATE TAX LOOPHOLES.

LET'S MAKE BILLIONAIRES PAY A FAIR SHARE.

LET'S FIX THE PROBLEM.

>> Keller: THE REPUBLICANS DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY.

LET'S LISTEN TO A BRIEF SUMMARY FROM THE HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN McCARTHY ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

>> IF YOU HAD YOUR CHILD AND YOU GAVE HIM A CREDIT CARD, AND THEY KEPT RAISING IT, AND THEY HIT THE LIMIT, SO YOU'VE JUST RAISED IT AGAIN, CLEAN INCREASE, AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

WOULD YOU JUST KEEP DOING THAT?

OR WOULD YOU CHANGE THE BEHAVIOR?

>> Keller: YOUR RESPONSE?

>> THAT IS LIKE THE DUMBEST ANALOGY I THINK I'VE EVER HEARD.

EXCUSE ME, THE NATIONAL DEBT IS NOT LIKE A CREDIT CARD.

IT DOES NOT AUTHORIZE SPENDING.

WE VOTE AS A CONGRESS ON SPENDING AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE.

IN DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATIONS, AND REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS, THE BETTER WAY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT KEVIN McCARTHY IS SAYING IS AFTER YOU'VE RUN UP THE GILL, MAYBE YOU COULD JUST TELL ALL YOUR CONTRACTORS YOU'RE ACTUALLY NOT GOING TO PAY THEM.

-- CREDITORS YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO PAY THEM.

HE WANTS TO MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE RICH FOLKS DON'T PAY ANYMORE AND WE PAY TAXES ON EVERYONE ELSE.

AND HAVE YOU HEARD THIS CRAZY TAX PLAN THEY ARE NOW GETTING READY TO VOTE ON?

THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE GOING TO PUT A 30% NATIONAL SALES TAX ON EVERYTHING FROM RENT TO GROCERIES TO AUTO REPAIRS TO DIE PERS, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT -- DIAPERS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT FOR THOSE AT THE TOP OF WHO PAY LESS IN INCOME TAXES AND TERRIBLY FOR ANYONE ELSE.

>> Keller: I HERE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I'M NOT HEARING THAT GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS BECOME LESS EXCESSIVE, HAS IT?

>> THE PROBLEM WE HAVE NOW IS AN IMBALANCE BETWEEN REVENUES AND SPENDING.

IT'S NOT RIGHT JUST TO SAY OH I KNOW, LET'S DO CUTS AND NOT TAKE A LOOK AT THE REVENUE SIDE OF THIS.

BESIDES, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TIME THE REPUBLICANS MANUFACTURED THIS CRISIS BACK IN 2011.

AND THEY GOT A BUNCH OF CUTS IN SPENDING.

AND WHAT WAS THE CONSEQUENCE?

THE CONSEQUENCE WAS THAT THEY KEPT UNEMPLOYMENT ELEVATED, GROWTH WAS SUPPRESSED, AND OLOT OF PEOPLE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY FELT THAT PAIN.

AND WHY?

SO THAT BILLIONAIRES AND GIANT CORPORATIONS CAN KEEP ESCAPING PAYING THE TAMPS THEY OWE.

AND THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT DO WE NEED TO MAKE A CUT HERE OR A CUT THERE?

IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHO PAYS.

THE RICH OR EVERYBODY ELSE.

>> Keller: BY THE WAY, SENATOR, WE'RE GLAD YOU MADE IT IN BECAUSE YOU'RE RECOVERING FROM FOOT SURGERY.

>> I AM.

>> Keller: I ASK YOU TO COME CLEAN DID YOU BREAK YOUR FOOT ON THE BACK OF A LAZY REGULATORROR?

>> I DID NOT, I KEEP UP MY EXERCISES SO I'M STRONG ENOUGH TO DO THAT.

>> Keller: THE TRANSITION.

>> I SAW THAT.

>> Keller: I RECENTLY SAW THE NETFLIX SERIES ON BERIE MADOFF, HE WAS RUNNING A PONZI SCHEME THAT FED REGULATORS, NOW WHAT DOES THE ALLEGED SAM BANKMAN FREED FTX SCANDAL TELL US ABOUT THE FEDERAL OVERSIGHT OF THE CAVERN, HAS IT GOT ANY BETTER?

>> IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH CRYPTO?

YOU BET THERE IS.

IT IS PARTLY ABOUT THE NEED ON CONGRESS'S PART TO STRENGTH BE THOSE TOOLS.

WE HAVE A BIT PROBLEM WITH FRAUD AND WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN THE TOOLS THERE AND A BIG PROBLEM WITH MONEY LAUNDERING.

THERE ARE ANTIMONEY LAUNDERING RULES TO KEEP DRUG DEALERS AND HUMAN TRAFFICKERS AND CURRICULUM TO-GANGS IN COUNTRIES LIKE IRAN AND NORTH KOREA FROM BEING ABLE TO TRADE THROUGH THE BANKING SYSTEM THROUGH CREDIT CARDS, THROUGH VENMO EVEN THROUGH WESTERN UNION BUT THOSE MOISTEN LAUNDERING RULES DON'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF REACH INTO CRYPTO.

WE NEED THE SAME KIND OF RULES.

>> Keller: I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED CONGRESS, THERE IS THE BLOCK CHAIN EIGHT HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS?

>> YES.

>> Keller: THEY HAVE BEEN RUNNING INTERFERENCE AGAINST THE REERGTS, LIKE THE SEC.

JAKE OCHENCLOSS, WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO HIM?

>> IT IS TIME TO DO AN ABOUT ACE.

IT IS TIME TO HOLD CRYPTO, TO THE SAME LEGAL STANDARDS AS EVERYONE ELSE.

THEY DON'T GET TO ENGAGE IN TRAWD AND THEY DON'T GET TO ENGAGE IN MONEY LAUNDERING.

YOU KNOW, JUST MAKE A DIFFERENT POINT JON THAT IS RELATED.

THIS IS ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY IT IS THAT I'M SO COMMITTED, IN RUNNING FOR REELECTION, AND THE KIND OF FIGHTS THAT I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE, NOT JUST OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, BUT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

WE HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT WHO THIS COUNTRY WORKS FOR.

AND I'M IN THIS FIGHT.

I'LL MAKE THE FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT MY REELECTION SOMETIME SOON AND I'LL BE OUT pAND DOING THE TOWN HALLS THAT I LOVE TO DO ALL AROUND THE COMMONWEALTH.

BUT IT IS ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY SHOWN THAT WE CAN GET DONE.

WE'RE IN A PLACE RIGHT NOW WHERE ELECTORATE SCHOOL BUSES WE'VE JUST GOTTEN A BUNCH OF THEM DOWN IN FALL RIVER, WE'RE ABOUT TO GET THEM OUT IN THE PIONEER VALLEY.

ALL PAID FOR BUSY MY 15% MINIMUM CORPORATE TAX ON BILLIONAIRE COMPANIES.

WE'VE GOT MONEY, $5 BILLION COMING INTO THE COMMONWEALTH.

FOR INFRASTRUCTURE, ROADS AND BRIDGES.

AND WATER PIPES.

WE'VE GOT THIS NEW BILL ASK FINALLY IN PLACE OR NEW LAW IS IN PLACE, SO PEOPLE WITH HEARING LOSS CAN BUY HEARING AIDS OVER THE COUNTER.

IT IS THE REMINDER, GOVERNMENT CAN DO REAL GOOD HERE, CAN DO REAL GOOD ON THE REGULATORY FRONT, HE CAN DO REAL GOOD IN LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD.

BUT YOU GOT TO BE WILLING TO BE IN THAT FIGHT.

AND THAT'S THE FIGHT I'M IN.

>> Keller: WELL YOU KNOW WHEN YOU FIRST RAN FOR THE SENATE A DECADE AGO -- >> YES.

>> Keller: OVER A DECADE AGO NOW, YOU FAMOUSLY TOLD THE AUDIENCE THAT SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PEOPLE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO GIVE MORE TO SOCIETY IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HELP WE GAVE THEM BUILDING THEIR BUSINESS MAINTAINING IT POLICING AND SERVICES LIKE THAT.

LET'S STAY A LOOK AT AN EXCERPT FROM THAT INFAMOUS RANT IF YOU PARDON THE ARE EXPRESSION.

>> THERE IS NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY WHO GOT RICH ON HIS OWN.

NOBODY.

YOU BUILT A FACTORY OUT THERE, GOOD FOR YOU.

BUT I WANT TO BE CLEAR.

YOU MOVED YOUR GOODS TO MARKET ON THE ROADS THE REST OF US PAID FOR.

YOU HIRED WORKERS THE REST OF US PAID TO EDUCATE.

YOU WERE SAFE IN YOUR FACTORY BECAUSE OF POLICE FORCES AND FIRE FORCES THAT THE REST OF US PAID FOR.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY THAT MARAUDING BANDS WOULD COME AND SEIZE EVERYTHING AT YOUR FACTORY, AND HIRE SOMEONE TO PROTECT AGAINST THIS, BECAUSE OF THE WORK THE REST OF US DID.

NOW, LOOK, YOU BUILT A FACTORY AND IT TURNED INTO SOMETHING TERRIFIC, OR A GREAT IDEA.

GOD BLESS.

KEEP A BIG HUNK OF IT.

BUT PART OF THE UNDERLYING SOCIAL CONTRACT IS, YOU TAKE A HUNK OF THAT AND PAY IT FORWARD FOR THE NEXT KID WHO COMES ALONG.

>> Keller: OKAY SO I NOTICE BY THE WAY THAT YOU KEEP YOUR HANDS LOWERED THESE DAYS IS THAT BY DESIGN OR TRAINING OR -- >> NO.

>> Keller: OKAY.

BASICALLY THAT IS AN PEOPLE FOR BALANCE.

A BALANCE BETWEEN PROFIT AND OBLIGATION TO SOCIETY.

AND RIGHT NOW ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS FOR INSTANCE GREEN BUILDING CODES, TALKING ABOUT RENT CONTROL, COMING BACK HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, BUILDERS AND LANDLORDS ARE SAYING TO GOVERNMENT, LOOK, YOU'RE STIFLING OUR ABILITY TO BUILD NEW BUSINESSES, TO PROVIDE HOUSING THAT'S AFFORDABLE, TO MAINTAIN OUR PROPERTIES.

HOW DO YOU FIND THAT PROPER BALANCE BETWEEN FAIRNESS AND STIFLING GROWTH?

>> JON ARE YOU SERIOUSLY MAKING THE ARGUMENT RIGHT NOW THAT THE BIG PROBLEM IS THAT THE RICH AND THE INVESTORS IN THE GIANT INCARCERATIONS OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS SINCE THAT VIDEO HAPPENED HAVE SOMEHOW BEEN STIFLES AND HAVE NOT -- STIFLED AND HAVE NOT GOTTEN RICHER AND RICHER AND RICHER WHERE HARDWORKING FAMILIES HAVE STRUGGLED MORE AND MORE AND MORE?

YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE DO NEED BALANCE.

BUT PART OF THE BALANCE WE NEED IS WE GOT TO STOP THESE BILLION DOLLAR INCARCERATIONS THAT PAY HOW MUCH IN TAXES?

ZERO.

WE HAVE TO STOP THIS BUSINESS.

OF BILLIONAIRES WHO SAY THEY HAVE NO INCOME.

JEFF BEZOS PAYS LESS IN FEDERAL INCOME TAXES THAN A BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER.

AND LOOK HOW MUCH RICHER HE HAS GOTTEN OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS.

SO YES.

I'M ALL FOR BALANCE.

BUT I'M FOR THE KIND OF BALANCE THAT SAYS, THOSE AT THE TOP, WE ALL HELPED INVEST IN GIVING YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT BIG.

AND WE'RE HAPPY TO CELEBRATE THAT YOU MADE IT BIG.

BUT COME ON GUYS!

PAY SOMETHING BACK IN, SO THE NEXT KID HAS A CHANCE TO MAKE IT BIG AND THE KID AFTER THAT AND THE KID AFTER THAT.

>> Keller: OBVIOUSLY, A BIG PART OF YOUR ROLE, YOU AND THE REST OF THE DELEGATION IS TO BRING HOME THE BACON FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

>> YEP.

>> Keller: AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST SLABS OF BACON OUT THERE IS THE PARTIAL FEDERAL FUNDING NOR THE REPLACEMENT OF THE BORNE AND SAGAMORE BRIDGES TO THE CAPE.

WHAT WENT WRONG?

>> THE OBLIGATIONS FOR IT.

I WANT TO START BY SAYING I REALIZE EVERYBODY LIKES TO CALM FEDERAL SPEJ BACON.

I ACTUALLY CALL REPLACING BRIDGES THAT ARE WAY PAST THEIR USEFUL LIFE SPAN AND WOULD COST LITERALLY 200 MILLION TO GIVE TEMPORARY REPAIRS TO I LIKE TO CALL REPLACING THOSE AS THINGS WE CAN DESPERATELY NEED.

>> Keller: YOU AGREE BACON IS DELICIOUS.

>> I LOVE BACON.

>> Keller: OKAY GO AHEAD.

>> HERE'S THE POINT ON THE IMRIDGES.

THE RESUMES HAVE BEEN SET UP.

WE HAVE A LOT OF MONEY COMING IN AND AVAILABLE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE.

BUT, THE STATE -- THINK OF IT THIS WAY: THE STATE HAS TO BE ABLE TO PICK THE FRUIT.

AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WE'VE PLANTED THE TREES.

THE TREES HAVE BORNE FRUIT, WE WATERED IF TREES, WE GOT THEM READY, AND NOW THE TREES HAS GOT TO PICK THE FRUIT.

IT'S GOT TO PUT IN A QUALIFYING APPLICATION OR THE THIS MONEY.

AND PART OF WHAT'S HAPPENED UP TO NOW IS THOSE APPLICATIONS WERE, YOU GOT A PLAN IN PLACE AND YOU'RE READY TO START PUTTING SHOVELS IN THE GROUND BEFORE LONG.

THE STATE HAS NOT BEEN IN THAT PLACE.

THIS LATEST ROUND HAS AT LEAST PUT A MILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS INTO THE STATE TO SAY WOULD YOU PLEASE GET YOUR PLAN TOGETHER AND COME AND APPLY FOR THIS MONEY IN A WAY THAT YOU'LL GET IT.

>> Keller: WHAT HAPPENED HERE THERE'S BEEN PLENTY OF MONEY FLOWING THROUGH THE STATE TREASURY.

WAS THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH?

>> WE HAVE GOT TO PUT IN GRANTS THAT MEET THOSE CONVERSATIONS IF WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO GET ANY KIND OF MONEY TO GET THIS DONE.

PEOPLE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL UNDERSTAND THESE BRIDGES HAVE TO BE REPLACED AND I MAKE THIS A FIRST PRIORITY.

SO DOES ED MARKEY, SO DOES EVERYONE IN OUR DELEGATION.

WE'VE GOT TO GET THOSE BRIDGES REPLACED BUT HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN IN THE STATE.

>> Keller: WE HAVE A MINUTE LEFT.

YOU SAY YOU HAVE BEEN A MEMBER FOR REELECTION.

LAST YEAR LUCINDA ARDERN ANNOUNCED SHE WOULD BE STENG DOWN AFTER CERTAINLY YEARS IN OFFICE.

SHE SAYS WE GIVE ALL WE CAN AND THEN IT'S TIME.

SHE'S 42, YOU SAID FORGIVE ME IF THIS IS RUDE, YOU'VE SAID YOU'RE RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM IN 2024, THAT MEANS YOU WOULD BE 81 WHEN THAT TERM IS UP.

WOULD THAT BE IT FOR YOU?

>> LOOK, NOBODY GOES INTO ANY JOB SAKE I WANT TO MAKE MYSELF A LAME DUCK FROM THE BEGINNING.

FOR ME JON THOUGH IT'S ABOUT THE FIGHT.

I AM IN THIS BECAUSE I BELIEVE SO THOROUGHLY IN WHAT WE CAN DO, BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT, AND WHAT WE CAN DO GOING FORWARD.

I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE IN THIS.

WHEN I RAN TEN YEARS AGO, I SAID ONE OF THE BIG THINGS I FELT WE NEEDED AS A NATION IS TO DOUBLE OUR INVESTMENT IN SCIENCE.

AND I SAID, I'M ALL IN, TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, NOW, IT'S TAKEN TEN YEARS, BUT THIS LAST AUGUST, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

WE DOUBLED OUR NATIONAL INVESTMENT, NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION IS GOING TO HAVE TWICE AS MUCH MONEY.

NOT JUST FOR ONE YEAR BUT FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

THESE ARE THE FIGHTS THAT SUSTAIN ME.

THAT KEEP ME IN THIS.

IT HAS BEEN SUCH AN INCREDIBLE HONOR TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT THESE FIGHTS ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMONWEALTH, AND I AM DEEPLY GRATEFUL THAT THEY HAVE SENT ME THERE TO DO IT.

AND BOY, I'M READY TO DO IT.

>> Keller: IT'S NOT OFTEN WE SEE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL RUBBING THEIR HANDS AT THE THOUGHT OF THE FIGHT.

BUT -- >> YOU BET.

>> Keller: IT'S GOOD FOR HAVING YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR CONGRESS IN.

>> IT'S GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SENATOR ELISABETH WARREN.

NEXT UP, THERE'S A STORM HEADING OUR WAY, AND IT'S SET TO BRING A WINTERY MIX OF RAIN, SLEET, AND SNOW TO THE BOSTON AREA.

WITH MORE ON WHAT WE CAN EXPECT OVER THE NEXT 12 OR SO HOURS, AND HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS AFFECTING WINTER WEATHER ACROSS NERNG WE'RE REALLY PLEASED TO HAVE WITH US METEOROLOGIST AND GBH CONTRIBUTOR DAVE EPSTEIN HI DAVE.

>> HELLO JON.

>> I'M NOT A BIG SNOW GUY I FREELY ADMIT I BUT I FEEL THE PAIN OF SKIERS AND KIDS WHO WANT SNOW DAYS AND SLEDDING AND SO FORTH BUT WE CAN'T SEEM TO GET IT TOGETHER TO GET SNOW IN HERE IN THE IMMEDIATE BOSTON AREA AND I GUESS THE NEXT 24 HOURS IS THE SAME DEAL RIGHT?

>> YES THAT'S RIGHT, THIS STORM SYSTEM LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST TOO WARM.

WE WILL HAVE SOME SLEET PELLETS AROUND THIS EVENING IN BOSTON MIXED WITH THE RAIN AT TIMES BUT CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO ACCUMULATE AND ONCE THE RAIN MOVES TO THE NORTH WE'LL GET SOME COLDER AREA IN TOMORROW, I DO THINK WE'LL SEE SOME SNOW SHOWERS, NORTH AROUND THE MASS PIKE AND THE BORDER TOWNS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE WE COULD SEE ANYWHERE FROM ONE TO MAYBE THREE INCHES RIGHT ALONG THE NEW HAMPSHIRE BORDER BUT I THINK YOU'LL HAVE TO SWITCH INTO NEW HAMPSHIRE AND MAINE BEFORE YOU'LL SEE SNOW, FOR WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE, MOST OF THAT COMES OVERSIGHT TONIGHT INTO VERY EARLY -- OVERNIGHT TONIGHT AND INTO TOMORROW MORNING.

>> Keller: IS THIS GOING TO MAKE THE SKIERS HAPPY?

>> A DEARTH OF LESS SNOW, BUT ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTHERN SKI AREAS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE AND MAINE.

>> Keller: I UNDERSTAND A COUPLE MORE STORMS ARE COME DOWN THE PIKE.

WHAT'S UP WITH THEM?

>> ANOTHER SYSTEM SUNDAY NIGHT AND MONDAY.

AGAIN ALONG THE COASTLINE WE'RE GOING TO BE HARD PRESSED TO SEE MUCH IN THE WAY OF SNOWFALL.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T, THE TRACK OF THAT CAN DEFINITELY CHANGE SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS FOR THAT AND THEN ANOTHER ONE SOMETIME I THINK WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND THURSDAY AND THAT ONE AGAIN, GOING TO BE A LOT OF MOISTURE WITH IT BUT THE QUESTION IS: WILL THERE BE COLD IN SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND, NORTHERN NEW ENGLAND, ALL THREE OF THESE SYSTEMS SHOULD ADD SOME GOOD SNOW DEPTH FOR NORTHERN NEW ENGLAND AND THEY COULD REALLY USE IT THERE SO THAT'S THE GOOD THUZ.

>> Keller: AS I SAID TO ME THIS IS IDEAL.

THE SNOW WHERE IT'S NEEDED NORTH, AND THE SKI HILLS NOT SO MUCH IN THE CITY WHERE I'M TRYING TO GET MY CAR OUT OF DRIVEWAY, THAT'S JUST ME AND I KNOW I DON'T SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY.

DAVE YOU RECENTLY TOLD FAIRS AND JEREMY, ON MORNING EDITION WARM WINTERS WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE NORM TAN STAFF HERE AT GREATER BOSTON PULLED SOME STATISTICS WE'D LIKE TO SEE OUR VIEWERS TO KIND OF ILLUSTRATE THIS.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE INCREASE IN AVERAGE WINTER TEMPERATURES SINCE 1970 AROUND NEW ENGLAND.

3° IN BOSTON, RANGING UP TO 7.1° IN BURLINGTON.

TO THE LAYMAN THAT MAY NOT LOOK LIKE MUCH BUT IN BURLINGTON MY GOODNESS THEY MUST BE WALKING AROUND IN THONGS IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY.

>> I THINK IT'S HARD FOR MOST FOLKS THAT DON'T DEAL WITH THESE KIND OF NUMBERS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, THAT ONE DEGREE, ONE AND A HALF DEGREES IS A BIG DEAL IN TERMS OF MOVING AVERAGES.

THE REASON IT'S SUCH A BIG DEAL IS THOSE NUMBERS ARE BASED ON 30 YEARS OF DATA.

THAT IS NOT LIKE ONE OR TWO WINTERS.

SO OVER 30 YEARS THAT'S A LOT OF DAYS, IT'S A LOT OF WINTERS AND TO MOVE SEARCH° IT'S INCREDIBLE -- 7°, IT'S WHAT GLOBAL CLIMATE MODELS SAY, THE BIGGEST CHANGE IS GOING TO BE THE FURTHER NORTH YOU GO.

THE ARCTIC IS GOING TO SEE THE GREATEST ARE WARMING AND THAT'S WHY WE HERE IN NEW ENGLAND ARE SEEING THE IMPACT.

FURTHER SOUTH THERE'S STILL IMPACT AROUND THE D.C. AREA, WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, PHILADELPHIA, BUT THE IMPACT REALLY IS SHOWING UP A LOT MORE HERE IN NEW ENGLAND.

>> Keller: AND NATIONALLY LET'S STAY A LOOK AT A MAP WE PUT TOGETHER HERE.

THIS IS KIND OF AN EYE OPENER.

SEE THAT DARK RED THAT RUNS FROM THE EAST COAST ALL THE WAY, BOY, ALL THE WAY TO THE UPPER MIDWEST AND BEYOND, THAT'S WARMING OF 3° OR MORE.

SO THERE'S REALLY NO ESCAPE FROM THIS.

IS THERE, DAVE?

>> NO, THERE'S REALLY NOT AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE KIND OF SOMETIMES FAIL TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND WE TALK ABOUT THE GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGING, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT EVERY SINGLE WINTER IS GOING TO BE WARM WITHOUT SNOW.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, WARM AIR ACTUALLY HOLDS MORE MOISTURE THAN COLD AIR.

AND SO WHEN IT IS COLD ENOUGH TO SNOW SOME OF THOSE SNOW STORMS COULD BE ABSOLUTELY HUGE.

WE SAW THAT BACK IN 2015 WITH THE 90 INCHES OF SNOW IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

SOME OF THAT HAD THE CLIMATE CHANGE FINGER PRINT ON IT.

IT IS BASICALLY SAYING, WHAT ARE THE ODDS THESE THINGS WOULD HAPPEN HAD HUMANS NOT PUT ALL THE CROAT INTO THE ATMOSPHERE OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS.

WE WILL HAVE WINTERS THAT ARE COLD, VERY SNOWY BUT THE ODDS OF HAVING A WINTER LIKE WE'RE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW WOULD TEND TO INCREASE OVER THE COMING DECADES AND OVER MID THE LATE CENTURY, WE'LL SEIZE MORE WINTERS LIKE WE'RE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW.

>> Keller: DAVE I WAS HAVING SO MUCH FUN TALKING WITH YOU NOW AND THEN YOU MENTIONED THE WINTER OF 2015, I SLID INTO A DEEP FUNK.

I'M GOING TO TRY TO SOLDIER ON HERE.

YOU MENTIONED, LAST SUMMER WHEN WE HAD DROUGHT CONDITIONS BORDER TO BORDER IN MASSACHUSETTS ALONG WITH RECORD HEAT, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY A CHRONIC CONCERN.

IS IT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE JUST A PART OF THE CYCLE HERE?

>> YES, SO DROUGHTS HAVE BEEN REALLY COMMON IN NEW ENGLAND, IN PERPETUITY.

WE'VE HAD DROUGHTS.

YOU GO BACK TO THE 1960s WE HAD DROUGHTS, FURTHER WE HAD DROUGHTS.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO EXPERIENCE JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE PLANET IS THE JET STREAM, WE ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE PLENTY EVER RAIN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RUN INTO ISSUES LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN CALIFORNIA,IES, PLACES LIKE THAT BUT AS THE PLANET WARMS A DROUGHT THAT SAY TOOK PLACE IN 1960, 64 WITH THE TEMPERATURES BACK THEN, THE EXACT SAME DROUGHT IN 2023, 2030, 2040, WOULD HAVE MORE IMPACT BECAUSE IT'S WARMER.

SO YOU COULD HAVE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF RAIN OR THE EXACT SAME RAIN DEFICIT THAT WE HAD 50 YEARS AGO BUT BECAUSE IT'S WARMER THE IMPACT TO CROPS TO WELLS TO INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT NEEDS WATER, IS GREATER BECAUSE OF THE WARMING.

>> Keller: WOWR, YOU KNOW THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO ALL OF THIS.

PEOPLE LIVE ALONG THE COAST SO WELL AWARE OF IT THEY DON'T NEED YOU OR I TO TELL THEM.

BUT I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED ONE THAT I NEVER EXPECTED.

A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, I WAS SPENDING SOME TIME DOWN IN WELLFLEET AND I TAKE MY DOG OUT TO DO HER BUSINESS.

AND IMMEDIATELY AND VORACIOUSLY ATTACKED BY MOSQUITOS, BLOOD RUNNING DOWN MY LEGS, THE DOG IS BEING EATEN ALIVE AND THAT IS THE SUMMER WHERE A SERIES OF UNUSUALLY HIGH TIETH BREACHED ONE OF THE BAY BEACHES, IN WELLFLEET AND CREATED THE PERFECT BREEDING CONDITIONS FOR A VORACIOUS BREED EVER ATLANTIC COAST MOSQUITO, THAT HAD NEVER BEEN EXPERIENCED THE TIME BEFORE, IT NEARLY KILLED THE TOURISM INDUSTRY.

ARE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS GOING TO BE HAPPENING MORE AND MORE OR WAS THAT A FLUKE?

>> NO, ABSOLUTELY, AS A MATTER OF FACT I'M ACTUALLY TEACHING A COURSE IN METEOROLOGIST THIS MONTH UP AT COLBY COLLEGE AND WE HAD 96 RECORD FROM BIGELOW LABS UP AT BOOTH BAY ON THE COAST OF MAINE COME AND TALK WITH US YESTERDAY.

ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WERE THESE AM 83 BLOOMS OCCURRING IN THE GULF OF MAINE ONE OF THE FASTEST WARMING BODY OF WATER NOT IN NEW ENGLAND BUT ON THE ENTIRE PLANET.

THESE WERE TIMES THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

WE SEE JELLIES THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE AND THEY END UP HERE.

YOU START EXPERIENCING THINGS LIKE YOU EXPERIENCED BUGS IN AREAS THAT WERE NOT THERE BEFORE AND THEN THOSE MOSQUITOS OF COURSE COULD CARRY DISEASES.

WE SEE CHANGE, CHANGE IS INEVITABLE BUT THESE CHANGES ARE MORE RAPID AND THEY ARE IN SOME WAYS UNPRECEDENTED AND BRING IN THINGS THAT JUST HAVE NOT BEEN OBSERVED IN THE HISTORY OF US AS HUMANS OBSERVING WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> Keller: WOW, WE ARE DOWN TO OUR FINAL MINUTE DAVE.

I KNEW WHEN I WAS GOING TO BE TALKING TO YOU YOUR TWITTER FEED, YOU PENNED A TWEET APPARENTLY TO TRY TO DEFLECT I GUESS A HIGH VOLUME OF TWEETS, COMMENTS YOU GET FROM CLIMAT CHANGE DENIERS WHERE YOU CALLED THE MISINFORMED AND FILLED WITH POOR IDEAS.

HOW BIG A HAS MANY IS THAT?

HOW MUCH DO YOU GET THAT KIND OF FEEDBACK?

>> I MEAN I DO GET IT A LOT.

AND I THINK, AND THE REASON I USE THE TERM MISINFORMED IS I DON'T WANT TO USE OTHER LANGUAGE THAT KIND OF DEMEANS PEOPLE.

PEOPLE CAN EDUCATE THEMSELVES AS TO EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON.

YES THE CLIMATE HAS BEEN CHANGING AND YES WE'VE HAD DIFFERENT CLIMATES IN THE PAST BUT WHAT HUMANS ARE DOING IS EXACERBATING THE CLIMATE AND WE ARE PUSHING THE CLIMATE IN THE SAME WAY A MERN COULD HAVE WORKED OUT FOR 100 YEARS AND NOW THEY TAKE STEROIDS AND THEY CAN DO THINGS THEY COULDN'T DO BEFORE.

THE CLIMATE IS DOING THINGS IT COULDN'T DO BEFORE BECAUSE OF THE CO2 AND THAT'S THE STEROID FOR THE ATMOSPHERE.

EN.

>> Keller: THANK YOU, DAVE.

>> ALWAYS GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

TWO YEARS AFTER IT WENT ON THE BOOKS, IS THE MASSACHUSETTS' LANDMARK POLICE-REFORM LAW WORKING OR NOT?

ADAM REILLY WILL SIT DOWN WITH TWO OF THE LAWMAKERS KEY TO ITS PASSAGE, AND THE PRESIDENT OF N.A.A.C.P.

BOSTON.

PLUS, THE FIGHT AHEAD OVER RENT CONTROL IN BOSTON AND BEYOND.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

WITH ADAM.

I'M JON KELLER.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org