>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

TENSION REIGNS AS PRESIDENT BIDEN PONDERS HOW TO PUNISH THE KILLING OF THREE AMERICAN SERVICE PEOPLE IN JORDAN.

I SPEAK TO U.S. AIR FORCE VET AND FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ADAM KINZINGER ABOUT BIDEN'S OPTIONS AT HOME AND ABROAD.

>>> THEN -- >> THIS IS MY FIRST GRANDCHILD.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPINESS, SHE SAYS.

BUT I COULDN'T CELEBRATE.

>> BORN INTO WAR.

CORRESPONDENT JOMANA KARADSHEH REPORTS ON THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW MOTHERS AND BABIES AT RISK IN GAZA.

>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> AMERICA AND CHRISTIANITY ARE LIKE BASEBALL AND APPLE PIE, AND WE CELEBRATE THEM TOGETHER.

>> "GOD & COUNTRY," A NEW DOCUMENTARY PUTS CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

AWARD WINNING FILMMAKER ROB REINER JOINS ME.

>>> PLUS, CHINESE ARTIST AND ACTIVIST AI WEIWEI TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT HIS NEW GRAPHIC NOVEMBER "ZODIAC" WHICH EXPLORES THE ONGOING STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION THROUGH ART.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILMON FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE HAS DECIDED HOW TO RESPOND TO THE ATTACK WHICH KILLED THREE U.S.

TROOPS IN JORDAN, BUT HE'S NOT YET PROVIDED DETAILS.

IT COMES AFTER SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN WARNED THAT THE SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAS NOT BEEN THIS SAN DIEGANS FOR 50 YEARS.

HAMAS, MEANWHILE SAYS IT'S STUDYING A PROPOSAL FOR A POTENTIAL RENEWED TRUCE AND HOSTAGE DEAL, BUT INSISTS ON ISRAEL'S COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL FROM GAZA.

SO WHAT ARE BIDEN'S OPTIONS?

ADAM KINZINGER KNOWS THESE ISSUES ON SEVERAL LEVELS AS A FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN AND AS A PILOT STILL SERVING IN THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD, AND HE IS JOINING ME FROM TEXAS.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, CONGRESSMAN.

CAN I FIRST START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT A VERY, VERY SERIOUS MATTER, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS GOT TO DECIDE WHETHER HE IS GOING TO TAKE AN ACTION THAT COULD HIT A SOVEREIGN STATE AND EXPAND WHAT IS A SORT OF, YOU KNOW, A WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST RIGHT NOW, A WIDENING WAR.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, LOOK, IT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH DECISION NO MATTER WHAT HE DECIDES TO DO.

LOOK, WE HAVE A LONG-STANDING POSITION, AND I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT POSITION THAT WE WILL DEFEND OURSELVES, THAT AMERICANS HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IF THEY'RE ATTACKED, AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO RETALIATE IF OUR TROOPS ARE ATTACKED.

UP TO THIS POINT WITH 160 ATTACKS ON AMERICAN TROOPS THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE EAST, WE'VE BEEN LUCKY TO THE POINT WHERE THERE HAS BEEN NO LOSS OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS' LIVES UNTIL THIS LAST ATTACK.

AND THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY VERY TRAGIC WITH DOZENS INJURED.

SO HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION.

I THINK THE THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS, OF COURSE, NOBODY, I DON'T THINK IRAN IS SEEKING TO WIDEN THIS WAR.

BUT WHEN WE DON'T REACT, PARTICULARLY ON SOMETHING AS DEADLY AS WHAT HAPPENED, THAT IS SEEN AS WEAKNESS.

AS MUCH AS WE'D LIKE TO THINK THAT WE CAN NOW ENGAGE IN A FRIENDLY NEGOTIATION WITH IRAN AND KIND OF GET EVERYBODY TO STEP BACK FROM THE BRINK, THAT'S NOT HOW IT'S WORKED.

SO I DON'T ENVY THE PRESIDENT'S DECISION WHETHER HE TAKES US DIRECTLY TO THE MILITIAS THAT DID THIS, OR WHETHER HE EXPANDS FOR INSTANCE TO MARITIME ASSETS WITH IRAN, BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A SIGNIFICANT STRIKE TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT ANY BENEFIT YOU THINK YOU ARE GAINING FROM ATTACKING AMERICANS IN THE REGION, THE COST WILL ACTUALLY FAR EXCEED ANY BENEFIT.

>> SO WITH THAT, LET ME THEN ASK YOU, SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM HAS TWEETED HIT IRAN NOW, HIT THEM HARD.

SENATOR CORNYN WRITES "TARGET TEHRAN."

THEY ALL -- THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR WAR WITH IRAN.

AND YOU'VE LAID OUT TWO SCENARIOS THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, EXACT PUNISHMENT BUT NOT DIRECTLY HIT THE NATION.

NOW PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS THE CURRENT SITUATION WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF HE WAS PRESIDENT.

BUT AS YOU KNOW AND AS WE ALL KNOW, AMERICANS WERE KILLED ON HIS WATCH JUST BEFORE SOLEIMANI WAS ARGUED THE.

BUT HE WAS HIT OUTSIDE IRAN.

NONETHELESS, IT WAS A MAJOR IRANIAN MILITARY AND POLITICAL FIGURE.

HE DIDN'T WANT FULL-OUT CONFRONTATION EITHER.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, LOOK, SO WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHEN HE DID KILL SOLEIMANI, THAT WAS ACTUALLY A PRETTY BRAVE THING TO DO.

AND THERE WERE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT SAID OH, THIS IS GOING TO LEAD TO WORLD WAR III, AND IT DIDN'T.

I THINK THE LESSON FROM THAT IS THE SAME AS VLADIMIR PUTIN.

THEY WILL ADVANCE UNTIL THEY HIT A BRICK WALL AND THEY KNOW THEY CAN GO NO FURTHER.

THAT SAID, IT'S EASY TO TWEET IF YOU'RE LINDSEY GRAHAM, IT'S EASY TO TWEET JUST BOMB IRAN BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION.

YOU CAN BE ON WHATEVER SIDE AS YOU WANT.

AND IF YOU LOOK IN THE GOP, THERE IS ACTUALLY A BIG SPLIT.

THERE IS THE BOMB IRAN NOW CREW, AND THEN THERE IS THE JOE BIDEN IS STARTING WORLD WAR III CREW.

AND INSTEAD OF ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THEY'RE ON VERY DIFFERENT POSITIONS IN THIS ISSUE, THEY'RE ALL ARGUING AGAINST JOE BIDEN FOR SOME REASON.

LET'S SEE WHAT HE DOES HERE.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A WAY FOR HIM TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT RESPONSE THAT IS TOUGH.

THE KEY IS WE DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE WE'RE JUST REACTING BECAUSE WE HAVE TO.

A RESPONSE THAT IS TOUGH, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY BOMBING THE MIDDLE OF TEHRAN AND TRYING TO EXPAND THE WAR FURTHER.

>> SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER ISSUE THAT IS A BIG -- WELL, ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES AROUND THIS ISRAEL-GAZA WAR, THE HOUTHIS.

AGAIN, THE U.S. AND THE UK DECIDED TO TAKE AIR ACTION AGAINST THEIR MISSILE BASES OR WHATEVER THEY HAVE THERE IN YEMEN.

IT IS ONE OF THE POOREST PLACES IN THE WORLD.

IT IS WAR-TORN.

THE HOUTHIS ARE NON-STATE ACTORS, YET THEY SEEM TO BE WINNING NOT JUST THE PROPAGANDA WAR, GETTING TONS AND TONS OF BUY-IN FROM YOUNG PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT THEY HAVEN'T STOPPED.

SO IF THE UNITED STATES CAN'T STOP THE HOUTHIS, WHAT CAN THEY DO ABOUT IRAN AND ITS OTHER BACKED MILITIAS?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, LOOK, IT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

AND IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT LEVEL OF FORCE ARE WE WILLING TO USE.

NOW LOOK, FORCE DOESN'T SOLVE EVERYTHING.

WE SAW IN AFGHANISTAN THE UNITED STATES WON'T BE DEFEATED WHEN IT COMES TO THE MILITARY.

THE U.S. AND THE UK PARTICULARLY.

WE CAN BE DEFEATED IN OUR WILL.

SO WITH THE HOUTHIS, FOR INSTANCE, WE'VE ATTACKED THEM A NUMBER OF TIMES.

WE'VE TAKEN OUT SOME OF THEIR ANTI-SHIP MISSILES AS THEY HAVE STOOD UP.

BUT THEY'RE STILL ATTACKING.

THIS IS A LONG-TERM PROCESS TO DEGAEDE THEIR ABILITY TO DO THIS.

AND EVEN IF THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FIRE AT SHIPS, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE SHOWING IS THAT THE COST IS NOT NOTHING.

YOU WANT TO FIRE ONE ANTI-SHIP MISSILE, IT'S GOING TO COST YOU THROW OR FOUR IF WE RESPOND TO THAT.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THIS DETERRENCE AS A LONG-GAME STRATEGY.

THE PROBLEM IS WE KIND OF LIVE IN THIS MOMENT WHERE IT FEELS LIKE WHEN WE STRIKE SOMETHING ONCE, WE HAVE TO SEE IMMEDIATE RESULTS.

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

BUT THAT WILLINGNESS, THE WILL TO STICK IT OUT IS IMPORTANT.

IN TERMS OF THE YOUTH, I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING ON TIKTOK.

THAT'S BEEN 100 TIMES IN THE POLITICAL SIDE OF THINGS.

BUT THERE IS A FAILURE SOMEWHERE IN OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE SHOWING SYMPATHY TO THE HOUTHIS AND ACTUALLY HEROISM TO THE HOUTHIS WHEN THEY ACTUALLY LAUNCHED THIS ATTACK AGAINST ISRAEL AND AGAINST SHIPPING IN THE RED SEA OUT OF WHATEVER SOME SENSE OF BROTHERHOOD.

>> AND IT IS PRECISELY THEIR ANTI-AS THEY SAY, ANTI-ZION AND ANTI-U.S.

MESSAGE THAT IS RESONATING AROUND THE REGION, AND SOME IN THE WEST AND THE UNITED STATES.

GIVEN GAZA, ISRAEL'S SITUATION, IS THE CONTEXT AND THE FRAME FOR ALL OF THIS HEIGHTENED ACTIVITY RIGHT NOW, YES, THERE IS MEANT TO BE NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON FOR A PAUSE AND MORE HOSTAGE PRISONER SWAPS.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PRESSURE ON PRESIDENT BIDEN?

A LOT OF POLITICAL PRESSURE ON HIM.

DO YOU THINK THE WHITE HOUSE EXPECTED THIS MUCH PUSHBACK AT HOME AND ABROAD FOR ITS SUPPORT OF ISRAEL?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY DID.

AND I THINK THEY'VE SO FAR DONE A GOOD JOB OF KIND OF RESISTING THAT PRESSURE.

I MEAN, LET'S KEEP IN MIND THIS IS ONLY THREE OR SO MONTHS AGO THAT THIS WAR WAS KICKED OFF.

REALLY, THIS WAS KICKED OFF ON OCTOBER 7th WITH A BRUTAL ATTACK ON CIVILIANS.

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS PLAYED A GOOD ROLE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO PREVENT THE ESCALATION AGAINST HEZBOLLAH IN THE NORTH.

IT SEEMS LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WALK ISRAEL BACK AT LEAST FOR THE TIME BEING ON SOME OF THAT.

CONTINUING TO STRESS TO ISRAEL THE IMPORTANCE OF PRECISION BOMBING.

GROUND TROOPS, BY THE WAY, ARE ABOUT THE MOST PRECISION WAY TO EXECUTE A WAR BECAUSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AND NOT JUST IN THE AIR.

BUT THIS IS GOING TAKE SOME TIME AS WELL.

AND I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION DID NOT SEE -- I DON'T THINK -- LOOK, I'M BLOWN AWAY THAT THERE IS THE PUSHBACK THAT THERE IS.

WHEN I JUST LOOK AT OCTOBER 7th AND HOW EVIL THAT DAY WAS, AND NOW SAY THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE BLAMING ISRAEL FOR ALL THIS, LOOK, YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH HOW ISRAEL IS EXECUTE AGUIAR.

I'LL REMIND YOU, AS YOU WELL KNOW, WHEN WE FOUGHT ISIS, THE ENTIRE CITY OF MOSUL WAS DESTROYED.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THE PEOPLE IN MOSUL HAD A PLACE TO GO.

RIGHT NOW EGYPT AND JORDAN HAVE SHUT THE BOARDS TO GAZA.

SO THEIR PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO GO THERE IS A LOT OF ISSUES HERE.

I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, IF THE UNITED STATES WAS ATTACKED LIKE THEY WERE ON OCTOBER 7th, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT A CEASEFIRE UNTIL THIS WAS DONE.

>> OKAY.

SO THEN THIS DEMANDS A FOLLOW-UP.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN UNTIL THIS WAS DONE?

AND YOU ALSO AS A FORMER AIR FORCE PILOT KNOW THAT OFTEN YOU CAN'T DO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO JUST FROM THE AIR.

SO THERE SEEMS TO BE NEGOTIATIONS UNDER WAY NOW, SERIOUS TO HAVE A TRUCE OR HAVE A PAUSE OR WHATEVER AND DO A WHOLE NEW ROUND OF MEGA HOSTAGES FOR PALESTINIAN PRISONER SWAP.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD THING.

LOOK, ALL WARS END IN NEGOTIATION.

EVEN THE END OF WORLD WAR II, WHEN GERMANY WAS OCCUPIED, THERE WAS A VERSION OF NEGOTIATION TO END THAT.

AND SO NEGOTIATIONS ARE GOOD, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IF ISRAEL CAN NEGOTIATE A CEASEFIRE OR END THE HOSTILITIES ON A PLACE WHERE IT FEELS LIKE IT CAN DEFEND ITSELF.

THAT'S THE KEY.

THE DANGER IN ANY KIND OF A WAR, WHETHER YOU START IT OR YOU DIDN'T IS PUTTING OUT A GOAL THAT'S UNACHIEVABLE.

THE ENTIRE DESTRUCTION OF HAMAS, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT, BUT AS LONG AS THERE IS ONE PERSON THAT SELF-DECLARES THEMSELVES HAMAS, YOU CAN'T NECESSARILY DESTROY ALL OF HAMAS.

SO THE ABILITY TO DEGRADE HAMAS, PREVENT ATTACKS, AND TRY TO BRING IN A DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT TO GAZA WOULD BE IMPORTANT.

SO NEGOTIATIONS ARE GOOD.

THIS CURRENT SITUATION MAY NOT LEAD TO ANYTHING.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD STOP NEGOTIATING.

THEY SHOULD CONTINUE IT.

BECAUSE INEVITABLY,S THAT HOW THIS HAS TO END.

>> ON ANOTHER MAJOR WAR THAT HAS AN EVEN BIGGER EXISTENTIAL COMPONENT TO IT, UKRAINE-RUSSIA, RIGHT.

RUSSIA IS THREATENING DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD AND KILLING SO MANY PEOPLE IN UKRAINE.

AND I KNOW YOU SUPPORT AID TO UKRAINE.

YOU ALSO SUPPORT, YOU'RE IN TEXAS NOW, TOUGHENING UP ON THE BORDER.

I KNOW YOU WERE DOWN THERE, DEPLOYED THERE IN 2019.

BUT WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF YOUR PARTY LINKING THESE TWO ISSUES AND THEN THE LEADING CANDIDATE TO BE YOUR PARTY'S NEXT NOMINEE SCUTTLING THE WHOLE THING JUST AS IT SEEMED TO BE ON THE VERGE OF PRODUCING SOME BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A JOKE.

THE WHOLE PARTY HAS BECOME A JOKE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S GOING FOR.

IT PRETENDS TO BE A PARTY OF POLICY.

WHEN I WAS IN CONGRESS 12 YEARS, THE EARLY PART OF MY CONGRESSIONAL CAREER, YEAH, WE WERE FOCUSED ON POLICY.

JUST FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS AGO, THE GOP KIND OF SADLY, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, YOU KNOW, TANKED UKRAINE AID IN ORDER TO GET A BORDER CHANGE BECAUSE THEY NEEDED A CHANGE IN POLICY IN LEGISLATION.

NOW PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS COME FORWARD AND SAID OKAY, I'M BASICALLY GOING TO GIVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU'VE ASKED FOR.

AND NOW THE REPUBLICAN POSITION, AFTER DONALD TRUMP SAID HE WANTS THIS ISSUE POLITICALLY, THE REPUBLICAN POSITION HAS BEEN WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE POLICY.

THE PRESIDENT CAN DO THIS ON HIS OWN ALREADY.

IT'S NOT A SERIOUS PARTY.

LINKING THE ISSUE OF UKRAINE AND THE BORDER IS VERY BAD AND VERY WRONG.

THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT ISSUES.

REGARDLESS, THEY WERE LINKED.

THE CURRENT PRESIDENT GAVE THEM A LOT ON THIS, AND THEY'RE WALKING AWAY.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE TO FLIP THE SCRIPT AGAINST THE GOP IN JUST TEN MONTHS ON THE BORDER ISSUE.

THEY CAN MAKE SOME REAL GAINS ON IT.

THEY CAN BE OUT THERE CALLING FOR BORDER SECURITY AND SAY THE REPUBLICANS ARE UNWILLING TO WORK WITH US.

AND I THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE TO TALK TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT UKRAINE.

THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT NOT JUST TO UKRAINE, BUT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

AND THAT NEEDS TO BE BETTER EXPLAINED.

>> INDEED.

CONGRESSMAN ADAM KINZINGER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>>> NOW, THE REGIONAL TENSIONS WORSEN AMID THE DIRE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION IN GAZA.

TWO WEEKS AGO, THE U.N.'S AID CHIEF MARTIN GRIFFITHS TOLD ME HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS ARE STARVING EVEN NOW, AND NOW A PHYSICAL THERAPIST DISPLACED TO RAFAH TELLS CNN THAT PEOPLE IN NORTHERN GAZA EAT GRASS AND DRINK POLLUTED WATER TO SURVIVE.

THE DESPERATION IS ESPECIALLY GRAVE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN AND NEWBORN BABIES, AS CORRESPONDENT JOMANA KARADSHEH REPORTS.

>> Reporter: BORN INTO THIS WORLD ALL ALONE, NO PARENTS BY HER SIDE.

ONLY A STRANGER'S TOUCH FOR THE BABY WITH NO NAME, DELIVERED BY C-SECTION LAST MONTH TO A MOTHER ALREADY GONE, FATALLY INJURED IN AN EXPLOSION.

SHE'S BEEN IN AN INCUBATOR SINCE, STABLE NOW, BUT STILL FRAGILE, DOCTORS SAY.

SHE'S ONE OF THE NEARLY 20,000 BORN INTO THIS WAR.

EVERY TEN MINUTES, A BABY IS BORN IN GAZA, THE U.N. SAYS.

GAZA IS WHERE THE BLESSINGS OF LIFE ARE NOW A CURSE.

YEZIN IS FIVE MONTHS PREGNANT.

LIKE MOST GAZANS, HER FAMILY HOMELESS.

THIS, THE TOILETS OF A SCHOOL TURNED SHELTER IS WHERE THEY LIVE.

"THIS IS OUR LIFE IN THE TOILETS" SHE SAYS.

WE LAY OUR MATTRESSES AND SLEEP HERE.

YEZIN AND HER HUSBAND CAN HARDLY FEED THEIR CHILDREN.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THEIR UNBORN CHILD.

"I'M IN MY FIFTH MONTH, CRAVING FOODS, BUT THERE IS NO FOODS."

SHE HAS NOT HAD HER IRON SUPPLEMENTS, NOT EVEN A CHECKUP IN MONTHS.

WE WANTED TO CHECK IF THERE IS A HEARTBEAT, BUT NO HOSPITALS.

THEY'RE ONLY DEALING WITH EMERGENCIES, SHE SAYS.

THERE ARE NO SCANS TO SEE IF THE BABY IS ALIVE OR NOT.

LIFE IS NONEXISTENT FOR PREGNANT WOMEN.

HOSPITALS ARE OVERWHELMED WITH THE SEEMINGLY ENDLESS FLOOD OF WAR CASUALTIES.

THERE IS NO CHANCE OF CARRYING OUT ROUTINE CARE AND THE ESTIMATED 50,000 PREGNANT WOMEN AND THEIR UNBORN BABIES ARE LEFT OUT IN THE COLD.

THEIR ALREADY PRECARIOUS SITUATION BEFORE THE WAR NOW DRAMATICALLY WORSE.

ABOUT 40% OF ALL PREGNANCIES ARE NOW HIGH-RISK, AID GROUPS SAY.

MISCARRIAGES, STILL BIRTHS, PRETERM LABOR AND MATERNAL MORTALITY ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY.

FOR FIRST-TIME MOTHERS, THE EXCITEMENT IS OVERSHADOWED BY THIS MISERABLE EXIST SENTENCE THAT IS NOW HER LIFE, SOON TO BE HER BABY'S.

"BEING PREGNANT WITH YOUR FIRST YOU EAT, YOU REST, YOU SLEEP," BUT I DIDN'T GET ANY OF THAT.

INSTEAD, SHE HAS HAD TO FLEE SEVERAL TIMES, WALKING MILES, SEARCHING FOR SAFETY.

AFTER WALKING FOR MANY HOURS, I WAS EXHAUSTED, SHE SAYS.

THE BABY WAS VERY WEAK.

THEY TOLD ME I SHOULD BE STAYING IN THE HOSPITAL, BUT THERE WAS NO ROOM.

SO I HAD TO LEAVE.

SHE'S NOW IN THIS TENT, SLEEPING ON A SAND FLOOR.

"HOW WILL I GIVE BIRTH IN WAR WHEN I HAVE NOTHING FOR THE BABY?

NO FORMULA, NO DIAPERS.

WE'RE IN A TENT, AND IT'S VERY COLD FOR US.

WHAT WILL LIFE BE LIKE FOR A TINY BABY BORN INTO THESE CONDITIONS."

IT'S HELL.

THIS BURNT OUT CLASSROOM IN WHAT'S LEFT OF NORTHERN GAZA IS THE ONLY SHELTER SHE COULD FIND.

SHE BARELY MADE IT THROUGH THE BOMBARDMENT AND LABOR, NOW STRUGGLING TO KEEP HER NEWBORN HEALTHY, CLEAN AND WARM.

"WE WANT TO CLEAN THE CLASSROOM, BUT THERE IS NO DISINFECTANT.

THERE IS NO HEALTH CARE, NO CLINICS, NO VACCINATIONS FOR THE BABY.

SHE HAS SEPARATED FROM HER HUSBAND.

SHE HAS ONLY BEEN ABLE TO REEF HIM ONCE WHEN SHE TOLD HIM THEY HAD A BABY GIRL, HABIBA."

"THIS IS MY FIRST GRANDCHILD.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE HANES," SHE SAYS.

"BUT I COULDN'T CELEBRATE.

I WANTED TO PREPARE SO MANY THINGS FOR HER TO CELEBRATE HER ARRIVAL, MY PRECIOUS FIRST GRANDDAUGHTER.

SHE DIDN'T EVEN GET THE NEW CLOTHES I BOUGHT HER."

IT'S NEVER BEEN HARDER TO BE A MOTHER IN GAZA.

ALL YOU CAN DO IS HOLD YOUR BABY TIGHT AND HOPE YOU BOTH SURVIVE THIS NIGHTMARE.

>> JOMANA KARADSHEH THERE.

AND CERTAINLY THE CIVILIANS IN GAZA AND THE ISRAELI FAMILIES WHO ARE AWAITING FOR THEIR HOSTAGES TO BE REUNITED WITH THEM WANT SOME KIND OF PROGRESS IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

NOW EXTREMISM AFFECTS ALMOST ALL RELIGIONS IN THAT REGION AND IN THE UNITED STATES.

A KEY PART OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BASE ISN'T JUST EVANGELICAL VOTERS, BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY, WHAT OUR NEXT GUEST WOULD CALL CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS, WHO ARE IN FACT A POLITICAL MOVEMENT.

A LITTLE REMARKED FACT SINCE THE JANUARY 6th CAPITOL INSURRECTION WAS THE PRESENCE OF SO MUCH CHRISTIAN ICONOGRAPHY CLAIMED TO BE DEFENDING CHRISTIAN SUPREMACY IN AMERICA.

THE CELEBRATED FILM DIRECTOR ROB REINER HAS EXPLORED THIS PHENOMENON IN HIS DOCUMENTARY "GOD & COUNTRY."

HERE'S A CLIP.

>> CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM USED CHRISTIANITY AS A MEANS TO AN END.

THAT END BEING SOME FORM OF AUTHORITARIANISM.

>> BEING A CHRISTIAN IS ABOUT THE VALUES OF INCLUSION.

CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM IS CERTAINLY NOT BASED ON THE VALUES OF THE GOSPEL.

>> GOD WANTS AMERICA TO BE SAVED.

>> THEY'RE TOLD OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU'RE IN DANGER.

>> YOU NEED TO FIGHT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE YOUR COUNTRY.

>> WE ARE IN A CIVIL WAR BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL.

>> THIS IS NOT A MOVEMENT ABOUT CHRISTIAN VALUES.

THIS IS ABOUT CHRISTIAN POWER.

>> ROB REINER'S BEST KNOWN FOR DIRECTING SUCH CLASSICS AS "A FEW GOOD MEN," "WHEN HARRY MET SALLY," AND "THIS IS SPINAL TAP."

INDEED, HE IS FILMING THE LONG-AWAITED SEQUEL NOW IN NEW ORLEANS WHERE HE JOINED ME TO DISCUSS HIS OTHER PASSION, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AND TO WARN AMERICANS ABOUT A RISING NATIONALISM MASQUERADING AS TRUE FAITH.

ROB REINER, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO DO "GOD & COUNTRY" ABOUT CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM AS A DOCUMENTARY?

BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WELL-KNOWN FOR YOUR FANTASTIC FILMS.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE KIND OF KNOWN ABOUT THIS MOVEMENT FOR QUITE A WHILE.

I MEAN, BACK IN THE LATE '70s, EARLY '80s, NORMAN LEAR LAUNCHED AN ORGANIZATION CALLED PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY WHICH FOCUSED ON THIS IDEA THAT THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT WAS GOING TO DICTATE WHAT WE SHOULD LISTEN TO, WHAT WE SHOULD NOT LISTEN TO, AND IT WAS VERY DISTURBING TO HIM.

AND AS TIME WENT BY, I SAW THIS MOVEMENT GROW.

BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW POWERFUL IT WAS AND HOW WELL-ORGANIZED AND WELL FUNDED IT WAS UNTIL I READ THIS BOOK CALLED "THE POWER WORSHIPERS" BY KATHERINE STEWART.

AND I THEN REALIZED THAT THIS HAS TAKEN ROOT FAR MORE DEEPLY THAN I HAD EVER THOUGHT.

>> SO YOU MENTIONED NORMAN LEAR.

JUST FOR OUR INTERNATIONAL AUDIENCE, HE WAS THE GREAT TV PIONEER, CREATOR OF ALL SORTS OF THINGS, INCLUDING "ALL IN THE FAMILY" AND HE RECENTLY DIED AT THE GRAND OLD AGE OF 101.

THAT WAS YOUR BREAKTHROUGH SERIES, THAT TELEVISION SERIES.

BUT BACK TO THIS, BECAUSE WE'RE TALK ABOUT HIM IN A LITTLE BIT.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL KNOWN ABOUT THE POWER OF AMERICA'S, YOU KNOW, RIGHT WING FRINGE, CHRISTIAN EVANGELICALS, HOW THEY HELP PROPELLED TRUMP, OF ALL PEOPLE, INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

BUT I THINK FOR ME WHAT WAS SO NEW ABOUT WHAT YOU DID WAS THE NOTION OF NATIONALISM AND PARTICULARLY HOW THAT REALLY WAS ON DISPLAY AT THE INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL.

I'D NEVER FOCUSED ON ALL THOSE IMAGERIES THAT YOU SHOW AND YOU FOCUS ON, ALL THOSE PEOPLE WAVING CROSSES AND SPEAKING BIBLE VERSES AND THE LIKE.

>> YES.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT THEY GO INTO THE GUYS OF A RELIGIOUS MOVEMENT, BUT IT REALLY ISN'T.

IT'S A POLITICAL MOVEMENT.

IT'S ALL ABOUT GAINING POWER.

IT'S ALL ABOUT FORCING YOUR WAY OF THINKING ON OTHERS.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT THERE WAS THIS CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST UNDERCURRENT TO THE INSURRECTION ON JANUARY 6th.

BUT IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY, NOT ONLY ARE THE IMAGES THAT YOU POINT OUT, BUT THERE WAS AN ORGANIZING TOOL.

THEY ORGANIZED THE BUSES THAT GOT THERE.

WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT EVERY PERSON WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL WAS A CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST, BUT IT WAS THE FOUNDATION FOR THE MOVEMENT ON JANUARY 6th.

>> SO LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT, THEN, IS THE PROPORTION, OR THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN AMERICAN CHRISTIANS AND AMERICAN CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS?

DO THEY WORK TOGETHER?

DO THEY WORK IN OPPOSITION TO EACH OTHER?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE THE DOCUMENTARY, YOU'LL REALIZE THAT WE'RE NOT BASHING CHRISTIANITY AT ALL.

IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN THINKERS, THEOLOGIANS, PEOPLE WHO ARE DEVOUT TO THEIR FAITH TALKING ABOUT THE DANGER OF CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM.

NOT JUST TO DEMOCRACY, BUT TO CHRISTIANITY ITSELF.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU HAVE A LOT OF WELL-MEANING CHRISTIANS WHO DO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH AND ARE DEVOUT IN WHAT THEY BELIEVE GETTING SWEPT UP IN THIS CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST MOVEMENT, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY, AS I POINTED OUT BEFORE, A POLITICAL MOVEMENT, NOT A RELIGIOUS MOVEMENT.

>> AND FRANKLY, IF I COULD PARAPHRASE THAT, IT'S ABOUT POWER, NOT RELIGION.

AND ONE OF YOUR EXPERTS IN THE FILM SAYS IF DEMOCRACY GETS IN THE WAY OF CHRISTIAN POWER, DEMOCRACY HAS TO GO.

SO I AM GOING TO PLAY ONE OF THE CLIPS.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MANY REALLY DISTINGUISHED CHRISTIAN EXPERTS.

HERE IS A CLIP OF RUSSELL MOORE.

HE IS THE EDITOR OF CHRISTIANITY TODAY.

NOW HE LEFT A POSITION, A SENIOR POSITION AT THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION TO PROTEST THIS DENOMINATION'S POWER POLITICS.

HERE IS A BIT OF THE SOUND BITE.

>> THE BIBLE DOES DEPICT A WARRIOR JESUS, JUST WITH A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF WARFARE.

THE WARFARE TAKES PLACE SPIRITUALLY THROUGH THE MEANS OF THE GOSPEL, NOT THROUGH PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, JESUS REPUDIATD WHEN HIS OBSERVE DISCIPLE PETER PULLED OUT THE SWORD TO DEFEND HIM FROM BEING ARRESTED.

AND JESUS SAID PUT AWAY THE SWORD.

THOSE WHO LIVE BY THE SWORD WILL PERISH BY THE SWORD.

>> ROB REINER, WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS OVERLOOK THAT BIBLICAL TEACHING, AND THEY REALLY GET VOCIFEROUS ABOUT ALL THE SORT OF CULTURE WARS, WHETHER IT BE ABORTION, LGBTQ, EVEN WOMEN'S RIGHTS?

>> BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS, THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF THIS POLITICAL MOVEMENT.

BECAUSE THEY -- THEY HAVE TO RESORT.

YOU SHOULD RESORT TO PERSUASION, TO USING YOUR FAITH.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING -- HAVING YOUR FAITH INFORM THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT POLICY.

THAT'S OKAY.

WHEN YOU TAKE IT THE NEXT STEP AND SAY YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING IN THE GYM OF JESUS, YOU'RE ACTING VIOLENTLY IN THE NAME OF JESUS, THAT'S WHEN YOU ARE GOING FAR AFIELD FROM THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.

AND THESE PEOPLE ARE, LIKE WE'VE SAID MANY, MANY TIMES, IT'S A POWER MOVEMENT.

IT'S A POLITICAL MOVEMENT.

AND IT'S THEIR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT CAN CAUSE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU -- WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS INTENDED, WHICH IS TO HAVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, TO HAVE THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH BY THE WAY, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

THEY BELIEVE IT'S NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION, AND THAT AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION, AND THEY WANT IT TO REMAIN OR TO BECOME.

AND, YOU KNOW, IN CONTRA TO THE FACT THAT WE ARE A MELTING POT SOCIETY, WE ARE MORE DIVERSE THAN WE EVER HAVE BEEN.

THEY WANT US TO BE A WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION.

THEY BELIEVE IT'S THEIR RIGHT, AND THEY'RE DOING ANYTHING IN THEIR POWER IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

>> AND WE HAVE TO SAY HERE, YES, AMERICA HISTORICALLY IS THE GREAT MELTING POT.

BUT RIGHT NOW YOU'RE SEEING THAT THE IDEA OF IMMIGRATION IS A MAJOR MOTIVATOR.

CERTAINLY FOR THE REPUBLICANS, CERTAINLY FOR TRUMP, WHO HAS CALLED, YOU KNOW, IMMIGRANTS POISONING THE BLOOD OF AMERICANS.

SO I'M SURE THAT PLAYS INTO ALL THIS WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST SUPREMACY.

BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

BECAUSE THEY GRAB ON TO THAT AS A REASON FOR IT.

THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT SAY IT, RIGHT?

THAT IS TRUE.

WHERE IT DOES APPEAR IS IN 1802 IN A LETTER BY THOMAS JEFFERSON, THE FIRST AMENDMENT HE CALLS A WALL OF SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE.

THE FIRST AMENDMENT AS WE KNOW SAYS THERE SHALL BE NO LAW ESTABLISHING RELIGION.

ARTICLE 5 SAYS NO RELIGIOUS TEST EVER FOR HIGH OFFICE, ET CETERA.

HOW DOES ONE CONVINCE IN THIS ERA OF NOT ONLY FAKE NEWS BUT SUPREMACY MINORITY POLITICS THAT ACTUALLY THEY'RE NOT RIGHT BY THE CONSTITUTION, BY THE LAWS OF THE LAND?

>> WELL, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT.

THE WORDS "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE," THEY THEMSELVES DO NOT APPEAR IN CONSTITUTION.

BUT THERE ARE THREE REFERENCES.

THERE ARE THREE INDICATIONS, AND WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR IN THE FILM WALKING YOU THROUGH IT.

THREE TIMES IT IS MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL MAKE NO RELIGION.

IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT, IT GIVES YOU THE FREE RIGHT TO PRACTICE RELIGION HOWEVER YOU PLEASE.

THEY SAID THERE WILL BE NO RELIGIOUS TEST TO HOLD OFFICE.

AND WE KNOW BASED ON ALL OF THE WRITINGS OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS THAT THE REASON THEY WANTED THAT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE BREAKING AWAY FROM RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.

AND OUR CONSTITUTION IS THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD THAT STARTS WITH "WE THE PEOPLE."

IT GIVES THE POWER TO THE PEOPLE, NOT TO A DEITY.

AND THERE IS A CLEAR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION AND THROUGHOUT.

>> JUST FOR PEOPLE'S KNOWLEDGE, WHEN DID ALL THE SORT OF GOD STUFF APPEAR ON COINS AND IN SCHOOLS AND IN GOD WE TRUST AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF?

>> WELL, I REMEMBER VERY DISTINCTLY, BECAUSE I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL IN NEAR 54.

THEY ADDED TO THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, IT USED TO BE "ONE NATION INDIVISIBLE."

THEY ADDED "ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL."

AND THAT WAS ADDED IN 1954.

AND THE COINS, I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT DATES THE COINS WERE.

BUT THE POINT IS THAT'S OKAY.

IN GOD WE TRUST IS OKAY.

BUT WE'RE NOT SAYING WHAT THE GOD IS.

WE'RE NOT SAYING IT'S A CHRISTIAN GOD, IT'S A JEWISH GOD, IT'S A MUSLIM GOD.

THEY'RE SAYING IN GOD WE TRUST.

IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S OKAY TO HAVE GOD IN YOUR LIFE AND HAVE RELIGION IN YOUR LIFE.

YOU JUST CAN'T SPECIFY WHICH RELIGION THIS IS.

AND THAT'S WHAT CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM, THEY SAY -- THEY BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION, AND IT HAS TO BE -- IT IS PRESCRIBED.

IT IS ORDAINED BY GOD THAT THIS IS THE CASE.

AND IT'S JUST NOT SO.

>> LET ME JUST DIVERT A LITTLE BIT.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A MUSLIM GOD, A JEWISH GOD, A HINDU GOD, YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT GODS, CHRISTIAN GOD, THERE IS A FEAR OF A RISING NATIONALISM, AGAIN, NOT JUST CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM, BUT RISING, YOU KNOW, FASCISM, FAR RIGHT, EXTREMISM.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE HAPPENING IN EUROPE WHICH MAY REFLECT THEMSELVES IN UPCOMING EU ELECTIONS.

YOUR WIFE AND YOURSELF RECENTLY VISITED AUSCHWITZ.

YOUR WIFE MICHELLE'S MOTHER IS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR.

AND HER ENTIRE FAMILY WAS LOST AT AUSCHWITZ.

I WONDER, WAS THAT A TALL PART OF YOUR CONCERNS?

REFLECT ON THAT, GIVEN THE WORK ON THIS NATIONALISTIC POLITICS THAT YOU HAVE JUST DONE.

>> WELL, AS A JEWISH PERSON, THAT IS NEVER VERY FAR FROM YOUR THINKING IN TERMS OF HOW THINGS CAN VERY QUICKLY MOVE.

WE'VE HEARD THAT EXPRESSION "NEVER AGAIN."

AND AS A JEWISH PERSON, NOT ONLY DID MY WIFE'S MOTHER'S FAMILY, SHE LOST HER ENTIRE FAMILY, MY AUNT, WHO IS ALSO IN AUSCHWITZ, LOST HER WHOLE FAMILY IN THE HOLOCAUST.

SO IT'S NEVER VERY FAR AWAY FROM YOU.

AND YOU CAN SEE THE EARMARKS OF HOW THIS NATIONALISM CAN TAKE HOLD, AND CAN TAKE HOLD VERY QUICKLY.

I MEAN, WE IN AMERICA, WE BLANCHE AT OR WE RECOIL AT THE IDEA OF OOH, THEY'RE GOING TO INSTITUTE SHARIA LAW AS IF WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

WELL, SHARIA LAW IS A VERSION OF RELIGIOUS NATIONALISM THE SAME AS WE'RE GOING TO BE A WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION.

IT'S THE SAME.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE'RE SEEING THAT SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

AND IT'S VERY DANGEROUS.

RIGHT NOW AMERICA IS RIGHT AT THE CROSSROADS OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS WORLD STARTS EVOLVING INTO AN AUTOCRATIC WORLD AS OPPOSED TO HOLDING ON TO DEMOCRACY.

WE'RE THE OLDEST DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD.

WE'VE BEEN AROUND FOR 249 YEARS.

WE'VE HAD MANY YEARS OF SELF-RULE.

AND THE ELECTION THAT YOU'RE SEEING COMING UP IN 2024 IS GOING TO BE A REFERENDUM ON WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO MAINTAIN AND HOLD ON TO OUR DEMOCRACY OR DO WE WANT TO GIVE IT OVER TO AUTOCRACY, FASCISM, OR THEOCRACY.

>> SO YOU REFERENCED NORMAN LEAR.

I JUST WANTED TO ASK ABOUT HIM.

THAT WAS YOUR BREAKOUT ROLE.

YOU WERE THE SON OF THE FAMOUS ARCHIE BUNKER.

AND THAT WAS A DIFFERENT AMERICA.

THAT WAS DECADES AGO.

I WONDER WHETHER YOU CAN REFLECT ON WHAT ARCHIE'S GENERATION MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OF CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM AND THIS RISE OF AUTOCRACY, AND BY VIRTUE OF THAT, NORMAN LEAR, WHAT HE MEANT TO YOU AND HIS INCREDIBLY PIONEERING, CREATIVE IDEAS.

>> WELL, NORMAN, YOU KNOW, HE RECENTLY PASSED AWAY, AS YOU SAID.

HE WAS 101.

WE DID A TRIBUTE TO HIM AT THE EMMYS THIS PAST YEAR.

SALLY STRUTHERS AND MYSELF.

AND I TALKED ABOUT HIM.

I USED THE YIDDISH PHRASE.

I SAID HE WAS A KUCKLUFFLE.

AND THAT'S WHAT NORMAN DID.

HE STIRRED THE POT.

HE CHANGED THE LANDSCAPE OF HOW WE RECEIVED TELEVISION.

HE TALKED ABOUT REAL PEOPLE, REAL ISSUES.

HE HAD POLITICAL OPPONENTS GOING AFTER EACH OTHER.

AND I LEARNED FROM HIM.

NOT ONLY HOW TO MAKE GREAT AND FUNNY TELEVISION AND GREAT, FUNNY MOVIES.

HE WAS A SUPPORTER OF MINE, AND HE WAS LIKE A SECOND FATHER TO ME.

I LOVED HIM.

I LOVED HIM DEARLY.

AND IT'S SAD TO ME THAT HE HAD TO GO.

BUT HE LEFT A TREMENDOUS LEGACY, WHICH IS THAT SHOULD FIGHT.

WE SHOULD FIGHT FOR THIS FREEDOM OF RELIGION, OF SPEECH, OF OUR INDEPENDENCE AND PROTECT THE RULE OF LAW.

HE WAS A GREAT MAN, AND I MISS HIM TERRIBLY.

>> I WANT TO JUST ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW.

I THINK IN NEW ORLEANS, YOU'RE FILMING THE SEQUEL TO YOUR LENDING DEAR FILM "THIS IS SPINAL TAP."

SO HOW DID YOU GET ALL THE BAND PEOPLE TOGETHER AGAIN?

>> WELL, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

IT'S LIKE HERDING CATS.

IT'S LIKE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

BUT WE'VE BEEN ASKED OVER THE YEARS TO DO A SEQUEL, DO A SEQUEL!

AND WE NEVER WANTED TO DO IT UNTIL WE HAD AN IDEA THAT I THINK IS GOING TO WORK.

AND HOPEFULLY IT DOES.

IF NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL STONE ME OR SOMETHING.

>> WELL, WE'LL WAIT TO SEE.

AND I JUST WANT TO END ON YOUR DOCUMENTARY AGAIN, BECAUSE THE PREMIERE WAS AT THE U.S. CAPITOL.

THAT'S NOT A SO SUBTLE PLACE TO HAVE IT GIVEN WHAT IT FOCUSES ON.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY COMING OUT IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS FROM NOW.

WHAT WAS YOUR INTENTION BY HOLDING IT THERE AND ACTUALLY RELEASING THIS AT THIS TIME NOW?

>> WELL, HOLDING IT AT THE CAPITOL WAS A GREAT IDEA BY OUR DISTRIBUTOR AND OUR PUBLICIST DAN BERGER, BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GET THE CONVERSATION STARTED.

WE'VE ALSO HAD -- RECENTLY HAD A SCREENING IN DALLAS.

WE HAD ONE IN FLORIDA, IN PROVIDENCE.

WE HAVE SCREENINGS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WE WANT THE GET THE CONVERSATION STARTED.

AND PARTICULARLY FOR THE CHRISTIAN AUDIENCE, WHICH LIKE I SAY, WE'RE NOT BASHING CHRISTIANITY.

IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO START TALKING ABOUT IT AND SEE WHAT THIS IDEA OF CHRISTIAN NATIONALISM IS, HOW TO DEFINE IT, AND TO SEE THAT YOU MIGHT BE SWEPT UP IN SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY NOT AGREE WITH.

SO WE WANT PEOPLE TO START TALKING TO EACH OTHER.

AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE SCREENING AT THE CAPITOL.

>> AMAZING.

ROB REINER, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> "GOD & COUNTRY" PREMIERES IN THEATERS ON FEBRUARY 16th.

>>> NOW, WHEN ART MEETS ACTIVISM, CHINESE DISSIDENT AND RENOWNED ARTIST AI WEIWEI IS KNOWN FOR CHALLENGING THROUGH HIS WORK AND WAS EVEN DETAINED IN CHINA FOR 81 DAYS ON CHARGE OF STATE SUBVERSION BACK IN 2011.

BUT IT'S NOT DETERRED HIS FIGHT FOR INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM, A NOBLE PURSUIT PASSED DOWN TO HIM BY HIS FATHER, A CELEBRATED POET.

NOW AI WEIWEI IS EXPLORING THAT RELATIONSHIP AND HIS OWN LIFE STORY IN A NEW GRAPHIC MEMOIR "ZODIAC."

HE TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN HOW THOSE MEMORIES CONNECT TO STORIES OF CHINESE ASTROLOGICAL SIGNS.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

AI WEIWEI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

YOUR LATEST BOOK "ZODIAC" IS A GRAPHIC MEMOIR.

AND I'M WONDERING, IT'S NOT JUST A COMIC BOOK.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PART ART HISTORY, PART EXPRESSION OF YOUR LIFE.

WHY A GRAPHIC NOVEL?

>> WHEN I GREW UP IN A COMMUNIST SOCIETY, THE ONLY CHANCE TO HAVE SOME IMAGES WE CALLED A LITTLE PEOPLE'S BOOK.

AND IT'S ABOUT SIZE OF YOUR PALM, AND YOU READ PAGE BY PAGE.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE REVOLUTIONARY STORIES, AND I STILL KIND OF MEMORIZE ALL THE IMAGES.

SO I THINK PERHAPS THE NOVEL, IT COMES VERY HANDY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE IMAGES.

AND THE LAST LANGUAGE.

THAT'S ALSO IMPORTANT.

I GAVE PEOPLE A LOT OF SPACE FOR IMAGINATION.

>> SO IF THERE IS A YOUNG PERSON THAT PICKS UP THIS BOOK TODAY, SIMILAR TO WHAT THE GRAPHIC NOVELS OF YOUR GENERATION MIGHT HAVE HAD, IS THERE A PURPOSE?

IS THERE A POINT?

IS THERE SOMETHING YOU WANT A YOUNG PERSON THAT MIGHT BE READING THIS TO TAKE AWAY?

>> I THINK THE BOOK -- ACTUALLY, I DID NOT READ SO MUCH GRAPHIC NOVELS IN THE WEST.

BUT THIS BOOK I THINK HAD A LOT OF MIXED INFORMATION ABOUT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ABOUT A FATHER AND A SON, AND ALSO ABOUT A MYSTICAL IMAGES OF OUR ZODIACS, WHICH CAN RELATE TO HUMAN CHARACTER AND ALSO EVEN RELATE TO POLITICAL SITUATION.

LIKE THIS YEAR IS GOING TO BE A YEAR OF THE DRAGON.

IN CHINA, THE YEAR OF DRAGON SUPPOSED TO BE SOMETHING VERY UNPREDICTABLE.

IT CAN BE QUITE A BIG CHANGE OR CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS OR HARSH.

YOU HAVE ONE FOR PEOPLE BELIEVING THOSE.

>> FOR THOSE OF OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS WHO DON'T KNOW, YOUR FATHER AND YOUR FAMILY WAS BASICALLY EXILED BECAUSE HE WAS A POET.

AND AS YOU POINT OUT IN THE BOOK, HE WASN'T REALLY WRITING HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT THE STATE OR CHALLENGING THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, BUT YOU WERE STILL IN THE GOBI DESERT, IS THAT RIGHT, FOR FIVE YEARS AS A KID?

>> HE EXILED FOR 20 YEARS.

I WAS BORN THE YEAR HE WAS EXILED.

SO WE LIVE THE UNDERGROUND IN GOBI DESERT FOR FIVE YEARS.

SO HE STILL TODAY CONSIDER THE MOST POPULAR POETS.

THEN LATER THEY GIVE HIM HONOR BACK.

BUT STILL, THEY'RE KIND OF EXTREME SITUATION WHEN AUTHORITY DO NOT LIKE YOUR VOICE OR DO NOT LIKE YOUR EVEN JUST THE ATTITUDE, THEN YOU'RE DEAD.

YOU'RE NOT POSSIBLE.

BUT WE SEE THIS ALSO HAPPENS IN U.S. OR IN THE WEST.

CERTAIN SENTENCE IS UNSPEAKABLE.

CERTAIN SENTENCE YOU CANNOT TALK EITHER YOU BELIEVE THE FACTS OF TRUTH STILL AND THEN YOUR LIFE.

THAT IS A SCARY, YOU KNOW.

WE HAVE ONE LIFE, AND WHY WE HAVE TO BE KIDNAPPED BY CERTAIN KIND BELIEFS WHICH WE KNOW IS WRONG.

WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE FACTS IS OBVIOUS.

WE CAN EASILY THINK THIS.

WE CANNOT ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN TO OUR FAMILY OR TO OUR CASE, OR TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR TO THE PEOPLE WE KNOW.

BUT WE CANNOT SPEAK OUT.

WHAT IS ABOUT?

HOW DO WE LOOK AT THAT?

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT EARLY EXPERIENCE OF LIVING WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF HOW YOUR FATHER WAS TREATED, DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THAT AND HOW YOU'RE LIVING TODAY?

AND I WONDER IF THAT ALSO TRANSMITS DOWN TO YOUR SON.

>> I THINK MY SITUATION, EVEN MY FATHER NOT EXACTLY AGREE.

BUT I THINK MY LIFE IS EXTENSION OF HIS LIFE, IS ABOUT THE PACE AND THE PRICE TO SPEAK TRUTH, IN THEIR TRUTHS, OR TO STATE ON THE SIDE.

THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT.

THAT MEANS SO-CALLED FREEDOM NEVER COME FOR FREE.

IT'S REALLY SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

AND I HOPE I DO THIS AND IT CAN CHANGE THE SITUATION A LITTLE BIT BETTER FOR MYSELF.

MY SON.

I DON'T WANT HIM TO REPEAT MY EXPERIENCE OR HIS GRANDFATHER'S EXPERIENCE.

>> SO WHAT IS THE WORLD YOU WISH YOUR SON CAN GROW UP IN?

DO YOU THINK HE CAN GROW UP IN CHINA AS THE SON OF AI WEIWEI AND THE GRANDSON OF YOUR FATHER, PRACTICE ART, BE FREE IN HIS EXPRESSION?

>> MY SON'S FIRST ENGLISH SENTENCE IS NO MORE.

THE FIRST SENTENCE.

AND THE LAST MOMENT I UNDERSTAND THAT HE'S VERY -- HE WILL BE A VERY GOOD -- ONE DAY NO MORE LIFE, HE SAID.

HE WANTS TO BE A NORMAL LIFE.

AND I THINK INDEPENDENCE IS THE TRUE POWER OF WHAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL.

BUT YOU CAN SEE THE IDEAS OR JUDGMENT VERY OPEN.

IT'S NOT A REALLY INDEPENDENT JUDGMENT.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T TALK ABOUT YOUR FATHER MUCH EARLIER IN YOUR CAREER, AND YOU MENTION HIM A LOT MORE IN THIS BOOK.

AND I'M WONDERING HAS SOMETHING CHANGED?

IS IT AGE?

NOSTALGIA?

HOW COME YOU'RE BEING A LITTLE MORE OPEN ABOUT IT NOW?

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING THAT.

I ALWAYS AVOID TO ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH HIM BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HE IS ENEMY OF THE STATE.

EVEN I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, BUT IT'S STILL I DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE'S REALLY STRUGGLED FOR.

LIFE IS SO MUCH BURDEN.

BUT I WAS ARRESTED SITTING IN FRONT OF AN INTERROGATORS, I REALIZED 80 YEARS APART, WE HAVE COME BACK INTO A FULL CIRCLE.

SO WE STILL HAVE TO RECOGNIZE AS HUMAN BEING.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW ADVANCED OUR TECHNOLOGY OR HOW MUCH COMFORT WE HAVE.

STILL WE ARE IN A VERY QUESTIONABLE OR CRUCIAL CONDITION, AND WE HAVE TO GIVE THOSE VERY ESSENTIAL RIGHTS IN ORDER TO RISE HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

>> YOU HAD RECENTLY PUT OUT A TWEET ABOUT THE SITUATION IN ISRAEL AND GAZA, AND I WANT TO READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

"THE SENSE OF GUILT AROUND THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE HAS BEEN AT TIMES TRANSFERRED TO OFFSET THE ARAB WORLD, FINANCIALLY, CULTURALLY, AND IN TERMS OF MEDIA INFLUENCE, THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS HAD A SIGNIFICANT PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE ANNUAL $3 BILLION AID PACKAGE TO ISRAEL HAS FOR DECADES BEEN TOUTED AS ONE OF THE MOST VALUABLE INVESTMENTS THE UNITED STATES HAS EVER MADE.

THIS PARTNERSHIP IS OFTEN DESCRIBED AS ONE OF SHARED DESTINY.

NOW YOU HAVE SINCE DELETED THAT TWEET.

BUT IT HAD A RIPPLE EFFECT ON ART SHOWS THAT YOU WERE ABOUT TO HAVE IN MAJOR EUROPEAN CITIES IN LONDON AND PARIS.

AND I WONDER WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THAT AFFECT?

GALLERIES WHO SIGNED UP TO HOST YOUR WORK, THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

THEY KNOW THAT YOU ARE POLITICALLY CHALLENGING THE STATUS QUO IN ALMOST EVERY CASE.

>> WELL, IT'S NOT ABOUT ME.

IT'S ABOUT TODAY WE CANNOT ALLOW ANY IDEA OR NOISE WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM SOMEONE WHO LIKE THOSE TO BE.

SO THAT NOT AS EFFECTUAL, THAT IS TRUTHS.

THEY CANNOT ACCEPT GRAY AREA.

THEY WOULD ASK YOU YES OR NO.

THEY CANNOT SAY -- OTHERWISE IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

SO WE COME TO A STAGE, WHICH IS REALLY ABOUT NOT ALLOWED FREEDOM OF THINKING AND THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.

SO THAT IS VERY TROUBLESOME FIND, BECAUSE WE LOST THE FOUNDATION OF TO HAVE A CIVILIZED SOCIETY TO REALLY HAVE PATIENT AND EVEN TO HAVE COMPASSION FOR SOMEONE BEING DIFFERENT.

AND SYMPATHY, TO HAVE A DIFFERENT VOICE.

SO I THINK OF THIS AS VERY TROUBLESOME TIME.

>> DO YOU SEE THIS AS SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING THE WORLD OVER?

I MEAN, YES, THERE IS YOUR OPINION ON THIS SPECIFIC CONFLICT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THERE IS A CHILLING EFFECT ON FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, NOT JUST IN CHINA, BUT IN THE WEST AS WELL?

>> I USED TO THINK IT IN SECTARIAN STATE, CHINA OR NORTH KOREA OR PROBABLY CUBA, THIS, YOU KNOW.

BUT NOW WE SAY WHAT HAPPENS IN THE WEST CAN BE EVEN MORE SURPRISING.

IT CAN BE SOMETHING WE CAN NEVER IMAGINE.

UNIVERSITIES HEADS CAN BE QUESTIONS BY GOVERNMENT AND CAN BE DISMISSED.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A VERY BAD SIGN FOR SO-CALLED LIBERAL WORLD OR FREE WORLD.

AND THAT ONLY SHOWS THE WEAKNESS OF OUR BELIEVES.

AND WE DON'T HAVE THE HOW WE LOOK AT OURSELVES IF WE CANNOT ALLOW ANY ARGUMENT.

AND THAT IS VERY TROUBLESOME.

>> YOU WERE IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE '90s AS A YOUNG MAN, AND YOU WERE GOING TO SCHOOL.

I'VE READ THAT YOU WERE SO FASCINATED BY THE IRAN/CONTRA HEARINGS THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY WATCHING THE GOVERNMENT KIND OF PUBLICLY DISPLAY THIS HOUSE CLEANING AND BEING TRANSPARENT AND OPEN.

AND I WONDER NOW A FEW DECADES LATER, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF SORT OF THE AMERICAN STATE OF OUR ABILITY TO BE OPEN?

BECAUSE WE SEE CHALLENGES HERE IN HOW OUR DEMOCRACY IS MOVING FORWARD.

DO YOU?

>> I SEE FIRST TIME HERE, IRAN/CONTRA HEARING, I WAS PRETTY SURPRISED.

BUT I STILL THINK THIS SOCIETY STILL HOLDS JUSTICE AND OPEN, TRANSPARENCY VERY HIGH.

BUT TODAY NOT ONLY THE MEDIA, BUT ALSO THE SO-CALLED JUDICIAL SYSTEM, AND THEY ALL BECOME PARTISANS, AND WHAT THEY DID IS REALLY BEYOND SURPRISING, REALLY.

AND I'M ONLY MAKING CHINA AND THE RUSSIAN LAUGHING ABOUT THE WEST.

YOU CANNOT -- EVERYBODY WOULD LOVE.

CHINA THE ONE TO TALK ABOUT U.S.

IT'S NO LONGER TO SAY AS A LAND FOR THE BRAVE AND THE LIBERALS, BUT RATHER CORRUPTION ON ALL SIDES.

NOW IT'S SUCH BACKWARDS.

AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ESTABLISH AS A MODERN SOCIETY FOR YEARS AND WHAT COLLAPSE IN ONE SECOND.

>> YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK THAT ANY ARTIST WHO ISN'T AN ACTIVIST IS A DEAD ARTIST.

AND I WONDER IN THE CLIMATE THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, IF THERE IS THIS KIND OF INCREASED SCRUTINY ON EXPRESSION AND FREEDOM.

HOW SHOULD AN ARTIST PROCEED WHEN THEIR WORK OR THEIR VIEWS MIGHT BE IN GREATER DANGER?

>> WELL, ARTIST BASICALLY IS A HUMAN BEING WHO IS NOT A VERY PRACTICALLY FUNCTIONING, AND THAT WHY THEIR VOICE VERY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING WHICH AGAINST THEIR INTUITION OR THEIR SENSITIVITY.

TO THESE ARTISTS ARE VERY CORRUPTED BECAUSE EDUCATION, BECAUSE THE MARKET, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW CAPITALISM AND MADE EVERYTHING MEASURED BY PRICE.

SO THERE IS VERY FEW ARTISTS WILLING TO OPENLY JUST GIVE OUT THEIR OPINIONS OR TO EXPRESS IT SUCCESSFULLY TO COMMUNICATE WITH ARTISTIC WAY.

TO UNIQUE POSITION.

SO THAT'S THE CONDITION.

>> WHAT'S YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO CHINA NOW?

IS THERE STILL A LONGING FOR, I DON'T KNOW, A SENSE OF HOME OR YOU'RE NOT LIVING THERE ANYMORE.

>> I'M NOT LIVING THERE ANYMORE.

I DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF NOSTALGIA FEELING ABOUT CHINA, BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN SEEN AS ONE WITH WHO -- ALWAYS BEEN PUSHED A AWAY WHILE I WAS IN CHINA, EVEN BEFORE I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY.

BUT STILL, I'M A CHINESE.

I SPEAK CHINESE.

I HOLD A CHINESE PASSPORT.

I'VE NEVER CHANGED IT.

THAT MEANS I'M A BIT STUBBORN PERSON.

I USED TO SAY I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE.

THEY SHOULD LEAF.

BUT NOW I LEFT.

AND I WISH THEM WELL, AND I STILL PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I JUST WISH THEM WELL.

>> SO YOU HAVE MADE ART, WHETHER IT'S LIFE VESTS TO TALK ABOUT THE MIGRANTS THAT ARE COMING ON SHORE IN LESBOS, OR A SNAKE MADE OF BACKPACKS TO THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN WHO WERE KILLED IN THE EARTHQUAKE IN CHINA.

HOW DO YOU CONCEPTUALIZE A WORK TO TRY TO DISTILL A BIG IDEA INTO SOMETHING GRASPABLE?

>> AS ARTIST, YOU NEED A CERTAIN MATURE FORM TO CARRY OUT YOUR EXPRESSION.

I VISIT 20 NATIONS AND 40 DIFFERENT CAMPS, INTERVIEWED HUNDREDS OF REFUGEES.

IT'S JUST PREPARING MYSELF TO KNOW BETTER.

THEN IF IT WAS SIMPLE CONCLUSION, I THINK ALL THIS EFFORT IS TRYING TO GIVE INTEGRITY TO HUMAN CONDITIONS, TRYING TO RECOGNIZE WE ARE THE SAME.

EVEN WE LOOK DIFFERENT, I RECOGNIZE THAT, WE SHOULD BE KIND TO EACH OTHER, OR TO AT LEAST TO HAVE A COMPASSION.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE WE ARE STILL LIVING IN SOCIETY.

THERE IS NO HOPE.

>> AI WEIWEI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, UNCOVERING ONE OF THE WORLD'S GREATEST MYSTERIES.

DEEP SEA VISIONS CEO TONY ROMEO PUBLISHED SONAR IMAGES OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A PLANE DEEP BELOW THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND HE'S CONVINCED THAT IT IS THE WRECKAGE OF AMELIA EARHART'S FINAL FLIGHT AFTER SHE TOOK OFF TO BECOME THE FIRST WOMAN TO FLY AROUND THE WORLD IN JULY OF 1937, ONLY TO COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR.

THIS NEW DISCOVERY IS PART OF AN $11 MILLION EXPEDITION FOUNDED BY ROMEO TO SOLVE THE DECADES' LONG MYSTERY.

BUT EXPERTS SAY THAT CLEARER IMAGES ARE REQUIRED TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE LOST AIRCRAFT HAS INDEED BEEN FOUND.

SO THE QUEST CONTINUES.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

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