>> NEISLOSS: I'M LIZ NEISLOSS.

TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," THE EFFORTS TO ARM UKRAINE AS RUSSIA PREPARES TO RAMP UP ITS ATTACKS, AND THE TENSIONS MOUNTING OVER AMERICAN AND GERMAN TANKS.

IS THIS THE MOMENT NEEDED TO PROPEL UKRAINE TO VICTORY?

THEN LATER, THIS WEEK, THE BOSTON FESTIVAL OF FILMS FEATURES FILM FROM IRAN AND WE'LL HAVE THE DIRECTOR OF "THIS IS NOT ME," A FILM ABOUT TWO TRANS MEN, FIGHTING FOR CARE AND RECOGNITION IN IRAN.

♪♪ >> NEISLOSS: AS UKRAINE REELS FROM THE LATEST RUSSIAN ATTACKS, INCLUDING ONE ON A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING THAT KILLED MORE THAN 40 PEOPLE, THE U.S. AND OTHER NATO ALLIES ARE PREPARING TO SEND A HUGE PACKAGE OF HEAVY WEAPONS TO HELP THE COUNTRY PUSH BACK AGAINST KREMLIN FORCES.

THE PACKAGE INCLUDES NEW AIR DEFENSES, NEW ARMORED VEHICLES, AND AROUND A DOZEN BRITISH TANKS.

BUT SO FAR, THE U.S. AND GERMANY HAVE BEEN HESITANT TO SEND THEIR TOP-LINE TANKS, DESPITE WARNINGS THAT RUSSIA IS EXPECTED TO RAMP UP ITS ATTACKS IN THE COMING MONTHS, AND PLEAS FROM UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT.

>> (/ TRANSLATED/ ): TRAGEDIES ARE OUTPACING LIFE.

THE TYRANNY IS OUTPACING THE DEMOCRACY.

RUSSIA NEEDED LESS THAN ONE SECOND TO START THE WAR.

THE WORLD NEEDED DAYS TO REACT WITH FIRST SANCTIONS.

THE TIME THE FREE WORLD USES TO THINK IS USED BY THE TERRORIST STATE TO KILL.

THE WORLD MUST NOT HESITATE.

>> NEISLOSS: SO WHY ARE THE TANKS THAT UKRAINE SAYS IT NEEDS THE BIG ISSUE?

AND WILL EVEN THAT BE ENOUGH TO BEAT BACK RUSSIAN ADVANCES IN THE MONTHS TO COME?

JOINING ME TO HELP BREAK THIS ALL DOWN ARE CAROL SAIVETZ, A SENIOR ADVISOR FOR MIT'S SECURITY STUDIES PROGRAM AND A RESEARCH ASSOCIATE AT HARVARD'S DAVIS CENTER FOR RUSSIAN AND EURASIAN STUDIES, AND THE HARVARD UKRAINIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

AND EMILY CHANNELL-JUSTICE, DIRECTOR OF THE TEMERTE CONTEMPORARY UKRAINE PROGRAM AT HARVARD'S UKRAINIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

CAROL, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHY ARE TANKS THE FOCUS AT THE MOMENT?

>> I THINK TANKS ARE THE FOCUS OF THE MOMENT BECAUSE THERE IS -- IF YOU REMEMBER, THE WAR STARTED ON FEBRUARY 24th, SO THERE IS A LOT OF ANTICIPATION OF A RENEWED RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE WITHIN THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS, MONTH, WHATEVER, AND THE FEELING IS THAT THE TANKS THAT UKRAINE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN ASKING US FOR ALL ALONG ARE A WAY TO HALT THAT NEXT FORTHCOMING ATTACK.

THE INTERESTING THING TO ME IS THAT I THINK BIDEN HAS BEEN R & RVERYCAREFUL IN EQUILABRATING WHERE WE'RE NOT ENGAGING WITH RUSSIA, AND THE LAST I SAW THIS AFTERNOON THE GERMANS HAVE SAID TO THE POLES, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND EXPORT THE TANKS.

WE'RE NOT STOPPING YOU, BUT WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM.

>> A DECISION MAY BE MADE BETWEEN NOW AND LATER THIS EVENING -- >> RIGHT.

>> THIS SEEMS TO BE A MOMENT WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PRINCIPLE, WHERE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAID STOPPED ARGUING ABOUT NUMBERS.

IT IS TIME TO OPEN UP A PRINCIPLE OF SUPPLY.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> WHAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY REALLY WANTS TO SEE IS ALL OF UKRAINE'S NATO ALLIES TAKING THE SAME LINE.

BECAUSE THAT, I THINK, WOULD SHOW VLADIMIR PUTIN THAT THE WEST IS ON UKRAINE'S SIDE AND RUSSIA CANNOT WIN.

SO WHILE CERTAINLY ZELENSKYY IS GOING TO BE VERY HAPPY WITH THE TANKS THAT COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND HAVE ALREADY COMMITTED TO GIVING, AS WELL AS THE INCREASE SUPPORT FROM FINLAND, ESTONIA, AND SOME OF UKRAINE'S ANOTHER SMALLER ALLIES, HAVING GERMANY'S SUPPORT SHOWS A UNITED FRONT AND THAT THE ALLIES WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO HELP UKRAINE WIN THIS WAR.

CAROL, WHAT IS BEHIND GERMANY'S HESITATION?

THEY CAN EXPORT THEIR OWN TANKS, BUT THEY NEED PERMISSION FROM POLAND TO RECOMMISSION WHAT THEY HAVE GIVEN POLAND?

>> EXACTLY.

WHICH IS WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT WHEN THE GENTLEMAN'S GERMAN'S STATED THEY WOULD NOT BLOCK THE EXPORT TO UKRAINE.

IT IS KIND OF LIKE WITH A WINK AND A NOD, PLEASE GO AHEAD, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT.

I THINK THERE ARE TWO ISSUES HERE.

I THINK THERE IS THIS LONG HISTORY OF GERMANY -- AND I'M NOT A GERMAN EXPERT -- BUT A LONG HISTORY OF GERMANY WANTED TO ENGAGE IN RUSSIA.

THINK BACK TO BILLY BRAUN, AND THEY'RE VERY HEFT TAPT HESITANT TO BE OUT THERE IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY ELSE.

AND THE GERMANS ARE MOST DEPENDENT ON RUSSIA FOR OIL AND GAS, AND EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE DOING VERY WELL IN TRYING TO REDUCE THAT DEPENDENCE -- I THINK ULTIMATELY THEY WILL COME ALONG.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THEM TO SUPPLY THE TANKS.

AND LET'S NOT FORGET TO GO BACK, LIZ, TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID, THE BRITISH ARE SUPPLYING THEIR TOP OF THE LINE TANKS TO UKRAINE AS WELL.

SO IT MAY NOT BE AS MUCH AS UKRAINE WOULD LIKE, BUT THERE CERTAINLY WILL BE MORE THAN THERE IS NOW.

AND HOPEFULLY THAT WOULD HOLD OFF ANY KIND OF RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE.

AND WE'RE SENDING ANY NUMBER OF STRIKERS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF MILITARY VEHICLES, JUST NOT THE M1 TANK.

>> SO LOGISTICS WAS RAISED BY THE U.S., FUEL SUPPLY AS A REASON -- ONE OF THE REASONS THEY WERE NOT GOING TO BE SUPPLYING THE TANKS.

BUT THE RUSSIANS ALSO SEEM TO ACKNOWLEDGE LOGISTIC PROBLEMS, PROBLEMS WITH TANKS.

IT SEEMED LIKE A SORT OF UNUSUAL THING FOR THE RUSSIANS TO SAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE WITH ALL OF THAT ANYWAY, ALMOST ACKNOWLEDGING THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.

CAROL, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING UNIQUE IN THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, THE RUSSIAN ARMY TURNED OUT NOT TO BE THE ARMY THAT WE ALL THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE, AS WE SAW CERTAINLY LAST YEAR AND THROUGHOUT THE FALL.

I THINK THE ISSUE -- AND I FORGET WHICH IS WHICH, I'M SORRY, THAT THE U.S. TANKS USE A DIFFERENT KIND OF FUEL FROM THE LEPERS, AND THERE ARE REPAIR STATIONS ALREADY ESTABLISHED TO REPAIR THEM IF THEY'RE DAMAGED DURING THE WAR, AND THERE ISN'T SUCH A SYSTEM IN PLACE FOR THE U.S. TANKS.

>> IT IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN PEOPLE WOULD ASSUME.

IT IS NOT JUST LOB SOME HEAVY-DUTY EQUIPMENT.

THERE IS A LOT THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.

>> RIGHT.

>> EMILY, SOME PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS SITUATION AND MIGHT SAY, WHY STRING THIS OUT.

IF THE UKRAINIANS ARE PROPERLY SUPPLIED, THIS CAN ALL COME TO AN END MUCH FASTER.

SO WHY -- FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE A DELICATE DANCE AT THIS POINT TREG.

>>?>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE, ABOUT WHAT WILL PROMPT VLADIMIR PUTIN TO END THIS WAR.

EMMANUEL IS INDICATING THAT EUROPE NO LONGER HAS AN INTEREST IN PROVIDING AN OFF-RAMP.

SO I THINK IT IS, TO SOME EXTENT, NOT CUTTING OFF ANY OPTIONS.

HOWEVER, I THINK THE EUROPEAN LEADERS ARE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT PUTIN COULD STOP THIS WAR AT ANY POINT, AND RUSSIA COULD STOP THIS WAR AT ANY POINT, AND THEY'RE NOT.

AND WE'RE MOST LIKELY TO SEE A RAMPING UP AROUND THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE WAR OR SOME TIME IN THE SPRING, POTENTIALLY.

SO I THINK THERE IS MORE OF AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THE SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE NEEDS TO BE MORE DEFINITIVE.

THE ALLIES NEED TO BE MORE UNITED, AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL NOT ONLY PREVENT DAMAGE FROM FURTHER AERIAL STRIKES, CIVILIAN TARGETS, AND STRUCTURAL TARGETS, THAT WE'VE BEEN SEEING OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST FEW MONTHS, BUT IT WOULD POTENTIALLY MAKE IT A LOT EASIER WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR UKRAINE'S OFFENSIVE TO RETAKE THOSE TERRITORIES THAT STILL ARE OCCUPIED BY RUSSIA.

UKRAINE WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGEOUS POSITION AND COULD TAKE THOSE TERRITORIES BACK MUCH MORE EASILY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT PUTIN.

HE HAS SHOWED INTO WILLINGNESS TO BACK DOWN.

QUITE THE CONTRARY.

HE IS THREATENING THE FORMER WAR SAW PAC MEMBERS, BUT THEY SEEM TO BE DOUBLING DOWN IN A WAY.

THERE IS A HOST OF COUNTRIES WHO ARE DIGGING IN.

POLAND IS RAMPING UP ITS PRODUCTION OF WEAPONS.

HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THE SPILLOVER EFFECT ON THESE FORM MAR WAR WARSAW COUNTRIES.

>> THEY KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO HAVE RUSSIA CONTROL THEIR WHOLE POLITICAL AND ECONOMICAL SITUATION, THEY KNOW THAT FROM EXPERIENCE.

BUT THEY ALSO ARE THE CLOSEST TO UKRAINE.

THEY KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF RUSSIA WINS IN UKRAINE.

POLAND WILL BE NEXT.

THIS IS SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT, I THINK AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

AND HAS IT HAS BECOME ENTRENCHED, WE STOPPED THINKING ABOUT THE GREAT GEOPOLITICAL THREAT THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW.

I THINK THAT IF RUSSIA SOMEHOW MANAGES TO TAKE OVER UKRAINE, WHICH I REALLY DON'T THINK IS LIKELY AT THIS POINT, BUT IF THEY DO AND IF THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN, THEN DEMOCRACIES LIKE POLAND WILL BE NEXT.

THE BALTIC COUNTRIES WILL BE UNDER THREAT NEXT.

I THINK THESE COUNTRIES ARE TRYING -- THEY'RE DOING AN AN ADMIRABLE JOB OF ADVOCATING FOR UKRAINE ON BEHALF OF UKRAINE TO THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT HAVE MORE ECONOMIC AND MILITARY POWER TO SUPPORT UKRAINE.

THEY REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE.

>> CAROL, RIGHT NOW WE DON'T SEEM TO BE AT A MOMENT WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEACE.

BUT SHOULD THE QUESTION OF PURSUING PEACE -- HAS THAT BEEN TOTALLY LOST?

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE MOMENT FOR THAT.

BUT WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO THOSE WHO STILL SAY WE SHOULD BE PURSUING PEACE?

>> I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW HOW YOU PURSUE PEACE AT THE MOMENT.

THE RUSSIANS ARE CLEARLY NOT INTERESTED IN ANY KIND OF PEACE NEGOTIATIONS.

AT THE POINT, I GUESS, IN DECEMBER, WHEN PUTIN LISTED A BUNCH OF PRIORITIES AND THE UKRAINIANS DID AS WELL, THERE WAS NO OVERLAP AT ALL BETWEEN THE MINIMAL CONDITIONS FOR EVEN STARTING NEGOTIATIONS.

AND I THINK EMILY IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

AT THIS POINT, IT HAS BECOME MUCH MORE OF A -- I'M NOT SURE EXISTENTIAL IS THE RIGHT WORD, BUT IT IS MUCH MORE OF A PHILOSOPHICAL FIGHT ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND NOT WANTING TO SUCCUMB TO THE AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT AND THE BRUTALITY OF THE RUSSIAN REGIME AT THE MOMENT.

>> AND ANOTHER THING WE HAVEN'T HEARD THAT MUCH ABOUT, EMILY, ARE MIGRANTS.

THERE HAS BEEN A MASSIVE OUTFLOW OF UKRAINIAN MIGRANTS, BUT UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS SEEM TO BE WITHSTANDING A LOT OF THIS.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT IS A TARGETED ATTEMPT TO DESTABILIZE IN SOME WAY, RUSSIA COULD BE PUSHING ON THE MIGRANT ISSUE, ATTACKING CIVILIANS MORE, FINDING OTHER WAYS TO UNDERMINE EUROPEAN SUPPORT THROUGH THE PRESSURE OF MIGRANTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO THE WAY OF LOOKING AT THIS QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THERE IS THIS PUSH TO HIT CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE IN AN ATTEMPT TO DEMORALIZE UKRAINIANS, MAKE THEM LESS LIKING TO KEEP FIGHTING.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS A STRATEGY THAT IS WORKING FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE REMAINED IN UKRAINE, THEY'RE JUST AS APT TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT AS BEST THEY CAN.

CERTAINLY THEY'RE EXHAUSTED, AND THEY WOULD LIKE THIS WAR TO BE OVER, BUT THAT TACTIC HASN'T WORKED.

WHAT I MAYBE WOULD ANTICIPATE IS REALLY A KIND OF RUSSIAN MISINFORMATION PUSH TO START TARGETING THOSE IN COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND AND GERMANY, TO TRY TO PRESENT THOSE UKRAINIANS WHO HAVE FLED UKRAINE, AND WHO ARE STILL REFUGEES RIGHT NOW, TO PRESENT THEM AS SOME KIND OF A PROBLEM OR DRAIN ON THE SYSTEM IN THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THAT ARE HOSTING THEM.

I'M NOT SURE A TACTIC LIKE THAT WILL WORK.

BECAUSE THOSE COUNTRIES, AND ESPECIALLY THE CIVILIANS, HAVE REALLY UNITED AROUND HELPING UKRAINIANS.

BUT AT THIS POINT, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE RUSSIA USE WHATEVER INFORMATIONAL TACTICS THEY CAN TO TRY TO STIR UP SENTIMENT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY SEE EUROPEAN LEADERS TURNING A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVELY TOWARDS RUSSIA.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE IS STILL SOME PUBLIC OPINION THAT STILL SUPPORTS RUSSIA, AND I THINK WE'RE SEEING THAT DISAPPEAR OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

>> CAROL, HOW DO YOU INTERPRET MOVES FROM A COUNTRY LIKE FRANCE, WHICH IS NOW ANNOUNCING THEY WANT TO MODERNIZE THEIR MILITARY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE GOOD ON THEIR 2% TO NATO.

HOW DO YOU VIEW WHAT FRANCE IS DOING?

>> WELL, I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE WHOLE HISTORY OF NATO OVER THE LAST 15 OR 20 YEARS.

YOU KNOW, NATO WAS SORT OF AN ORGANIZATION IN SEARCH OF A MISSION WHEN THE SOVIET UNION COLLAPSED.

IT WENT OUT OF AREA.

IT WAS INVOLVED IN AFGHANISTAN, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS THIS WAR ON THEIR DOORSTEPS.

AND THE NATO COUNTRIES ARE WAKING UP AND SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I THINK WE OUGHT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

EVERY U.S. ADMINISTRATION HAS TALKED ABOUT BURDEN-SHARING, AND MEETING THE 2% G.D.P.

GOING TOWARDS THE MILITARY.

THE THREAT IS REAL.

CAN I GO BACK TO THE REFUGEE QUESTION FOR A SECOND?

>> SURE.

>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IN 2015, WHEN THE RUSSIANS STARTED HELPING BASHAR al-ASSAD IN SYRIA, THEY CREATED A REFUGEE CRISIS, AND IT WORKED TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

THEY USED ANTI-MUSLIM SENTIMENT AGAINST THE MIGRANTS AND TO STIR UP PEOPLE LIKE LAPEN IN FRANCE.

THIS TIME IT IS NOT WORKING.

THIS TIME I THINK THEY'RE HOPING IT WILL WORK, BY BOMBING THE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND "X" NUMBER OF UKRAINIANS HAVE FLED TO THE POLISH BORDER OR THE HUNGARIAN BORDERS.

AND IT'S NOT WORKING THIS TIME.

I THINK EMILY IS RIGHT THAT DOWN THE ROAD, THERE COULD BE INFORMATION TACTICS AND EVERYTHING, BUT RIGHT NOW ALL THE RUSSIANS SEEM TO BE DOING IS GALVANIZING PUBLIC OPINION AGAINST THEM AND IN FAVOR AND SUPPORT OF THE UKRAINIAN POPULATION.

>> SO WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME LEFT, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU TO DO A CRYSTAL BALL KIND OF QUESTION.

IF ALL OF THE MILITARY MIGHT IS THERE, IF THE UKRAINIANS WERE TO WIN, WHAT WOULD A BOXED IN PUTIN DO?

HE WOULD BE BOXED IN.

WE SORT OF TIPTOED PAST THE CONVERSATION OF NUCLEAR THREATS OR VEILED NUCLEAR THREATS.

BUT WHAT WOULD A WIN MEAN FOR PUTIN?

HE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE HE WOULD WALK AWAY QUIETLY.

CAROL?

>> THANK YOU.

>> I THINK -- WE DON'T KNOW.

WE ARE ALREADY BEGINNING TO SEE CRACKS WITHIN RUSSIA.

THE VERY FACT THAT SOME OF THE FIGHTING IS BEING LED BY PUTIN'S BUDDY, THE VAGNAR GROUP, WHICH IS NOT REGULAR RUSSIAN ARMY, AND THERE SEEMS TO BE VERBAL SKIRMISHING BETWEEN THE TWO, AND THE HEAD OF THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE.

I THINK PUTIN WOULD BE AFRAID, BUT I'M NOT SURE THERE IS ENOUGH UNANIMITY AMONG THE OTHER RUSSIAN LEADERSHIP THAT COULD LEAD TO, HEAVEN FORBID, A BATTLEFIELD NUCLEAR USE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I JUST DON'T SEE US GETTING THERE.

>> OKAY.

EMILY, DO YOU WANT TO DIVE IN ON THAT ONE?

YOU HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

>> I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT.

I THINK I'M INCLINED TO AGREE.

THE POTENTIAL FOR, YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF POWER STRUGGLE WITHIN RUSSIA, I THINK IT ACTUALLY LOOKS MORE LIKELY WITH SOME OF THE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT WHO IS RUNNING THE MILITARY, WHO SHOULD BE LEADING THE FIGHT.

PUTIN IS OBVIOUSLY NOT DELIVERING ON WHAT HE PROMISED.

AND A UKRAINIAN VICTORY IS GOING TO MAKE UKRAINE SO MUCH STRONGER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

>> NEISLOSS: CAROL SAIVETZ, EMILY CHANNEL-JUSTICE, THANKS.

NEXT UP, AS THE WORLD WATCHES, THE PEOPLE OF IRAN ARE HEADING INTO THEIR FIFTH MONTH OF PROTESTS, SPARKED BY THE DEATH OF 22-YEAR OLD MAHSA AMINI WHILE IN CUSTODY OF THE COUNTRY'S SO-CALLED "MORAILITY POLICE."

FIGHTING AGAINST MASS DETENTIONS AND FIERCE OPPRESSION ON SEVERAL FRONTS, THE PROTESTS HAVE WIDENED TO CHALLENGE IRAN'S ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE, INCLUDING ITS TREATMENT OF TRANS PEOPLE.

THAT ISSUE IS AT THE HEART OF A NEW FILM SET TO RUN HERE IN BOSTON LATER THIS WEEK, AS A PART OF THE MUSEUM OF FINE ARTS' BOSTON FESTIVAL OF FILMS FROM IRAN.

"THIS IS NOT ME" FOLLOWS TWO TRANS MEN AS THEY FIGHT FOR LEGAL RECOGNITION AND ACCESS TO GENDER AFFIRMING SURGERY.

>> (TRANSLATED): I'M A BOY, I'LL DO ANYTHING TO MAKE YOU HAPPY.

WHY SHOULD I LEAVE HERE?

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE HAPPY?

YOU WILL NEVER SEE ME DRESSED IN THIS COSTUME AGAIN.

>> NEISLOSS: I'M JOINED NOW FROM TEHRAN BY THE FILM'S DIRECTOR, SAEED GHOLIPOUR, WHO'S JOINED BY HIS TRANSLATOR.

>> SAEED, CAN YOU TELL ME WHY DID YOU -- THIS IS YOUR VERY FIRST FILM, SO CONGRATULATIONS.

WHAT MADE YOU CHOOSE THIS SUBJECT?

>> >> Translator:SUBJECT?

>> Interpreter: FIRST, HE IS THANKING YOU FOR HAVING HIM ON, AND FOR THE FESTIVAL TO HAVE CHOSEN HIS MOVIE.

THE REASON HE CHOSE THIS TOPIC IS BECAUSE THE TOPIC OF LGBTQ ISSUES IS VERY TABOO, AND THERE AREN'T MANY PEOPLE WHO WOULD CHOOSE THIS TOPIC TO COVER THIS FILM AS A FILMMAKER.

AND ALSO BECAUSE OF BEING TRANS IS ESSENTIALLY THE ONLY PART OF LGBTQ THAT IS ACCEPTED IN IRAN UNDER ISLAMIC LAW, AND IRAN IS THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT ALLOWS THAT SEX EXCHANGE.

AND THAT'S THE ONLY LEGAL FORM OF BEING GAY ARE QUEER.

>> BUT THE FILM OUTLINES IN GREAT DETAIL THAT THERE ARE MANY LENGTHS THAT BOTH TRANS MEN HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

THERE ARE COURTS.

THERE ARE MEDICAL CHECKS, INVASIVE MEDICAL CHECKS.

NEIGHBORS ARE ASKED FOR THEIR OPINIONS.

I FOUND THE MOST INTERESTING PERHAPS IN THE FILM WAS THE PARENTS' ATTITUDE.

THE PARENTS WERE VERY ACCEPTING, CALLING THEIR CHILDREN, MY SON, DEFENDING THEM.

THESE ARE VERY, IT SEEMS, VERY BRAVE STANCES IN THE FACE OF A LOT OF SOCIAL PRESSURE.

LET'S LISTEN TO A CLIP WHERE A FATHER OF ONE OF THE TRANS MEN IS TALKING ABOUT HIS FEELINGS.

[Speaking foreign language] >> NOW, SAEED, YOU WERE BORN POST-ISLAMIC REVOLUTION, BUT THESE PARENTS WERE NOT.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THE ATTITUDES OF THE PARENTS?

[Speaking foreign language] >> Interpreter: SO THE TWO FAMILIES HIGHLIGHTED IN THE MOVIE ARE AN EXCEPTION, AND A VERY POSITIVE EXAMPLE OF HOW SUPPORTIVE PARENTS OF TRANS INDIVIDUALS CAN BE.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN THE MAJORITY.

EVEN THOUGH LEGALLY TRANS INDIVIDUALS ARE ACCEPTED, AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE ARE MANY STEPS.

THEY'RE STILL OSTRACIZED BY THE COMMUNITY.

MANY END UP COMMITTING SUICIDE.

SO THE TWO HIGHLIGHTED IN THE MOVIE ARE AN EXCEPTION.

>> SAEED, YOU'RE A RELATIVELY NEW CONGRATULATE FROM THE SCHOOL IN TEHRAN, DO YOU FEEL RELATIVELY FREE AS A FILMMAKER TO CHOOSE TOPICS THAT YOU WISH TO TALK ABOUT?

[Speaking foreign language] >> Interpreter: SO HE CAN CHOOSE THE TOPICS OF THE MOVIES HE WANTS TO MAKE, BUT TO HAVE IT SCREENED OR HAVE IT BE APPROVED BY THE AUTHORITIES IS A WHOLE OTHER STORY.

I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE AWARE, BUT SINCE AFTER THE REVOLUTION, THERE HAS BEEN A VERY LARGE UNDERGROUND RAP SCENE FOR MOVIES, FOR ANY SORTS OF ARTS THAT IS NOT -- ESSENTIALLY DOES NOT GET THE STAMP OF APPROVAL TO BE SEEN OR SOLD LEGALLY.

SO IT IS AN INDEPENDENT MOVIE THAT HAS BEEN VETTED BY THE GOVERNMENT, IS NOT SCREENED ANYWHERE.

THIS IS -- ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS AN INDEPENDENT ARTIST WHO IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS SUBJECT AND HIS PEOPLE, AND HAS MADE THIS MOVIE COMPLETELY ON HIS OWN, KNOWING HE CANNOT SHOW IT ANYWHERE IN HIS OWN COUNTRY.

>> Neisloss: UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

I KNOW, SAEED, YOU HAVE SAID IT IS THE ROLE OF THE FILMMAKER TO BE VERY INFLUENTIAL.

YOU'RE YOUNG, AND YOU HAVE A BRIGHT FUTURE AHEAD OF YOU.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU MORE.

>> NEISLOSS: SAEED GHOLIPOUR, THANKS.

THE BOSTON FESTIVAL OF FILMS BEGINS ON THURSDAY JANUARY 26TH.

"THIS IS NOT ME" WILL BE SCREENED ON SATURDAY, JANUARY 28TH AT 1:00 P.M. FOR TICKETS AND MORE INFORMATION, GO TO MFA.ORG.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org