>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> KYIV'S WARTIME CRISIS JUST GOT WORSE, AS RUSSIA SAYS ITS PLANE RETURNING 65 UKRAINIAN P.O.W.s CRASHED, KILLING ALL ONBOARD.

A REPORT FROM THE FIELD, WHERE THE COUNTRY'S NEED FOR MILITARY AID IS URGENT.

>>> THEN -- >> IMMIGRATION'S A BIG DEAL.

BIG DEAL.

VERY BIG DEAL.

WE HAVE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE FLOWING INTO OUR COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.

>> WINNING IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, TRUMP DOUBLES DOWN ON HIS SIGNATURE MESSAGE.

I'LL ASK A FRONT LINE MAYOR IN TEXAS, REPUBLICAN JAVIER VILLALOBOS, WHETHER ANYONE HAS LAID OUT A SUCCESSFUL STRATEGY.

PLUS -- >> IF WE DON'T DIE FROM AIR STRIKES, WE ARE GOING TO DIE FROM DEHYDRATION AND STARVATION.

>> A SNEAK PEEK INTO HELL.

WE BRING YOU A DAY IN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF GAZA.

>>> NEXT, WITH A TRUMP/BIDEN REMATCH LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKELY, HOW ALLIES AROUND THE WORLD ARE TRYING TO TRUMP-PROOF, WITH JOURNALIST EMILY MAITLIS AND MARK LANDLER.

>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> THERE HAS TO BE ECONOMIC WARRIORS IN THE COMMUNITY TO CREATE ECONOMIC JUSTICE.

>> OSCAR NOMINATED SHORT DOCUMENTARY "THE BARBER OF LITTLE ROCK" EXPLORES ONE MAN'S FIGHT TO CLOSE THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP IN HIS COMMUNITY.

MICHEL MARTIN SPEAKS WITH DIRECTOR JOHN HOFFMAN AND HIS INSPIRATION, ARLO WASHINGTON.

♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

IT'S BEEN 700 DAYS SINCE VLADIMIR PUTIN LAUNCHED HIS ILLEGAL INVASION ON UKRAINE, WHOSE FATE HANGS DANGEROUSLY IN THE BALANCE NOW.

ADDING TO THE MISERY, A REGULAR PRISONER SWAP APPEARS TO HAVE ENDED IN TRAGEDY, AS RUSSIA SAYS A MILITARY TRANSPORT PLANE CRASHED NEAR THE BORDER, KILLING AT LEAST 65 UKRAINIAN PRISONERS OF WAR ONBOARD.

AND THE LATEST, RUSSIAN MISSILE STRIKES ACROSS UKRAINE KILLED 18 PEOPLE AND INJURED AT LEAST 130.

KYIV REMAINS RESOLUTE, BUT SAYS THEIR FORCES ARE NO LONGER RECEIVING ENOUGH AMMUNITION AND AIRSILES FROM THE UNITED STATES AND NATO ALLIES.

CORRESPONDENT FRED PLEITGEN IS WITH ME NOW FROM EASTERN UKRAINE.

FRED, CAN YOU BRING US UP TO DATE ABOUT THIS RUSSIAN CLAIM OF THAT CRASH, AND HAVE THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES ACTUALLY CONFIRMED IT?

>> WELL, THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES, CHRISTIANE, APPEAR TO BE CONFIRMING IT NOW, HOWEVER, THE BIG QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT THE UKRAINIANS MIGHT BE BEHIND ACTUALLY TAKING THAT PLANE DOWN, WITH THIS POSSIBLY BEING A TRAGIC ACCIDENT AND THEM NOT KNOWING THERE MAY HAVE BEEN UKRAINIAN P.O.W.s ACTUALLY ON THAT PLANE.

NOW, THE RUSSIANS ARE SAYING THE PLANE CRASHED AROUND 11:15 LOCAL TIME NEAR BELGOROD, VERY CLOSE TO UKRAINIAN TERRITORY.

IT'S AN IL-76 TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT WHICH IS USUALLY THE WORKHORSE OF THE RUSSIAN AIR CRAFT AND ONE THAT THE RUSSIANS USE FREQUENTLY TO SUPPORT THEIR LOGISTICS FROM WHAT THEY CALL THE SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION, THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

THE RUSSIANS ARE SAYING THIS PLANE WAS TAKEN DOWN ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER BY A UKRAINIAN SERVICE TO AIR MISSILE, ALSO LAUNCHED FROM THE BORDER AREA ON THE UKRAINIAN SIDE.

SERGEY LAVROV, THE RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER WAS AT THE U.N. TODAY BLAMING THE UKRAINIANS, AND SAYING THERE WERE 65 PRISONERS OF WAR FROM THE UKRAINIANS ONBOARD THAT PLANE, SET TO GO TO A PRISONER EXCHANGE.

NOW, THE UKRAINIANS ARE CONFIRMING THAT A PRISONER EXCHANGE WAS SET TO TAKE PLACE TODAY, AND THAT THAT PRISONER EXCHANGE HAS BEEN CALLED OFF.

HOWEVER, THEY SAY THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE FATE OF THESE PRISONERS AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE ONBOARD THIS PLANE.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE KEY THINGS, AND IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU WERE ALLUDING TO THERE, IS THAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE SAYING THAT TRANSPORT AIRCRAFT THAT FLY INTO BELGOROD ARE SUBJECT TO POSSIBLY BEING TAKEN DOWN BY UKRAIIAN SURFACE TO AIR MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY OFTEN CARRY MISSILES ON THEM, WHICH THE RUSSIANS USE TO ATTACK UKRAINIAN TERRITORY.

SO, THIS MAY HAVE BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL TAKEDOWN OF THE UKRAINIANS, NOT KNOWING THERE WERE POSSIBLY PRISONERS OF WAR ON THAT PLANE, HOWEVER, IT IS VERY MUCH UNCLEAR AT THIS POINT WHO WAS ON THAT PLANE, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE UKRAINIANS EVEN TOOK IT DOWN, HOWEVER, OF COURSE, WE HAVE SEEN THAT VIDEO FROM NEAR THE BELGOROD AREA WITH THAT MASSIVE FIRE BALL AFTER THE PLANE IMPACTED.

NEEDLESS TO SAY THE AUTHORITIES THERE SAY THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON, BUT NO ONE ON THAT PLANE SURVIVED, CHRISTIANE.

>> I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THERE, WAS THERE VIDEO OF AN IMPACT OF A MISSILE ON THE PLANE, DID THE UKRAINIANS SAY THAT THEY HAD TAKEN OUT A PLANE, NO MATTER WHAT IT WAS, I GUESS THESE QUESTIONS ARE STILL TO BE ANSWERED.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THERE IN THE EAST, I MEAN, YOU'RE REPORTING AND OTHERS ARE REPORTING, THE REALLY DIRE SITUATION, GIVEN THE HOLDUP IN CONGRESS AND ALSO IN THE EU, SERVICE TO AIR MISSILES.

CAN YOU TELL US, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING?

>> YEAH, I THINK THE SITUATION IS ACTUALLY EVEN A LOT WORSE THAN MANY PEOPLE IN WESTERN COUNTIES ARE PERCEIVING.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE SEEN HERE ON THE FRONT LINES, AND EXACTLY THE TWO THINGS YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

ONE OF THEM IS SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE SYSTEMS, WHERE THE UKRAINIANS SAY THAT THINGS ARE IN JEOPARDY, BECAUSE THESE SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE SYSTEMS FROM WESTERN NATIONS, THEY ARE EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE.

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE IRIS-T SYSTEM, AND OF COURSE THE PATRIOT MISSILE SYSTEM, THE UKRAINIANS ARE SAYING THERE ARE A LOT OF RUSSIAN MISSILES THAT ARE FIRED AT UKRAINIAN TERRITORY THAT CAN ONLY BE TAKEN DOWN WITH THESE SYSTEMS, AND OF COURSE, THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED THAT THE SUPPLIES OF THOSE MISSILES MIGHT NOT BE REPLENISHED, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW FROM THE U.S. SYSTEMS, OF COURSE, WITH THAT DEADLOCK IN CONGRESS.

BUT THE OTHER BIG THING THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE ON THE FRONT LINE, CHRISTIANE WHICH IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, IS 155 MILLIMETER ARTILLERY AMMUNITION.

WE'VE BEEN TO PRETTY MUCH THE THREE TOUGHEST AREAS RIGHT NOW FOR THE UKRAINIANS ON THE FRONT LINE, AROUND BAKMUT IN THE EAST OF THE COUNTRY, THEY SAY THE RUSSIANS ARE PUSHING WITH ASSAULTS, THEY SAY THAT A LOT OF RUSSIANS ARE DYING AND GETTING WOUNDED IN THOSE ASSAULTS, BUT THE UKRAINIANS ARE UNABLE TO HOLD A LOT OF THOSE ASSAULTS UP, BECAUSE THEY LACK AMMO, AND RIGHT NOW, THEY SAY THE SITUATION IS GETTING WORSE BY THE DAY, CHRISTIANE.

>> IT REALLY DOES SOUND LIKE A CRISIS FOR UKRAINE.

AND, OF COURSE, FOR THE WEST AND THE UNITED STATES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, FRED PLEITGEN.

>>> NOW, THE NEXT MAJOR TRANCHE OF MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE LANGUISHES IN CONGRESS, WHERE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE REFUSING TO BUDGE UNLESS THEIR DEMANDS ARE MET OVER THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER.

PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE HOPES A DEAL WILL BE REACHED THIS WEEK, AND IS OPEN TO, QUOTE, MASSIVE CHANGES.

AUTHORITIES ARE DEALING WITH AN HISTORIC NUMBER OF MIGRANTS AT THE MEXICAN BORDER.

LAST MONTH SAW THE BIGGEST CROSSING IN 23 YEARS.

AND AS THE NOVEMBER ELECTION GETS CLOSER, IMMIGRATION IS GROWING AS A KEY VOTING ISSUE.

ONE OFFICIAL ON THE FRONT LINES IS JAVIER VILLALOBOS, REPUBLICAN MAYOR OF McALLEN, TEXAS.

HE ARGUES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS FAILING HIS COMMUNITY AND HE'S JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT THIS CRISIS.

MAYOR VILLALOBOS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

SO, CAN YOU JUST DESCRIBE TO ME HOW IT LOOKS AND HOW -- WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR COMMUNITY, IF THIS REPRESENTS A HISTORIC INFLUX.

>> IT IS, AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE ARE FORTUNATE THAT HERE IN McALLEN, WE ARE NOT THE WAY WE USED TO BE.

WE PROBABLY HAVE ABOUT 300, 400 IMMIGRANTS PER DAY, SO, LOGISTICALLY, IT HAS NOT BEEN TOO DIFFICULT ANYMORE, BUT OUR SISTER CITIES OF EAGLE PASS, THE OTHER AREAS, AND THEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, IT IS -- IT ISN'T GOOD.

AND I THINK THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE REASON I BELIEVE IT'S REALLY AFFECTING THESE ELECTIONS, IS THAT THE PERSPECTIVE IS CHANGING FROM NOT NECESSARILY JUST IMMIGRATION, BUT NATIONAL SECURITY.

AND INTERMINGLING BOTH AS ONE.

WHICH, IN REALITY, IS TRUE.

WE ARE CONCERNED, AS YOU ALL JUST DISCUSSED ABOUT, UKRAINE AND ISRAEL.

A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING IN AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, AND THAT CONCERNS NOT ONLY ME, BUT I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED AS TO WHO IS COMING, WITHOUT IDENTIFICATION, WITHOUT KNOWING THEIR REAL PURPOSE.

AND THAT'S, I THINK, MAY SWAY AN ELECTION.

>> OKAY, SO, LET'S GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT, BUT I JUST WANT TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVE AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU SAID McALLEN SEEMS TO BE WEATHERING THE STORM, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, AND ACTUALLY McALLEN SEEMS TO, ACCORDING TO ALL THE STATS, BE A PRETTY SAFE PLACE, SO ARE YOU STILL SAYING THAT YOUR CITY IS SAFE?

AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NATIONAL SECURITY?

WHAT HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT MIGHT RAISE NATIONAL SECURITY QUESTIONS?

>> OKAY, DEFINITELY.

WE ARE VERY IMPORTANT THAT McALLEN, THE IMMIGRANTS PASS THROUGH HERE.

AND WE TAKE NO POSITION AS TO WHETHER THEY'RE LEGAL, ILLEGAL, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO US, WE ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF IMMIGRATION, BUT THEY DO GO UP NORTH, WHICH IS THE REASON NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES, CHICAGO, OTHER AREAS ARE HAVING THE DIFFICULTIES.

NOW, THE REASON FOR NATIONAL SECURITY IS THAT THESE IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT THE ONES WE'RE TOO CONCERNED ABOUT, BUT THE ONES THAT CROSS OUTSIDE OF THE PORT OF ENTRIES.

WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CAPTURED THAT ARE IN THE NATIONAL WATCH LIST, BUT WE CAN JUST IMAGINE HOW MANY HAVE NOT.

SO, THE PEOPLE, I KNOW THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE GETTING CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

AND WE, AS MUNICIPALITIES, WE ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF IMMIGRATION.

WE'VE BEEN WEATHERING THIS FOR MORE THAN TEN YEARS, SO, LOGISTICALLY, IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT FOR US ANYMORE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ONLY ABOUT 300, 400 IMMIGRANTS PER DAY.

WHEN AT ONE POINT, WE WERE DOING IN EXCESS OF 2,000.

SO, IT'S TAKING -- IT'S TAKEN A TOLL ON McALLEN AND DIFFERENT AREAS, AND NOW EVEN THE NORTHERN STATES, WHICH, WE KNEW IT WOULD, BECAUSE THE IMMIGRATIONS DO NOT WANT TO STAY AROUND THE BORDER.

>> RIGHT.

OF COURSE, THEY'RE TRYING TO ESCAPE THAT AND GET TO AS BEST A LIFE AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

I WANT TO ASK YOU THEN, YOU HAVE CRITICIZED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR FAILING IN THEIR OBLIGATIONS, AS YOU PUT IT, DOWN ON THE BORDER, AND IT APPEARS THAT YOUR GOVERNOR, STATE OFFICIAL, IS TAKING MATTERS INTO HIS OWN HAND, AND HE'S DONE A WHOLE LOT OF EXTRA BORDER SECURITY, RAZOR WIRE, HE'S PUT FLOATING BARRIERS INSIDE THE RIVER, THE RIO GRANDE, AND THAT WENT TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND THEN THE SUPREME COURT SAID, NO, HE HAD TO TAKE THEM AWAY.

WHAT IS -- WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HAPPEN?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT YOUR GOVERNOR'S BEEN DOING?

>> WELL, WE DEFINITELY DO BLAME THE FEDERAL SYSTEM.

AND WHEN I SAY THE FEDERAL SYSTEM, I'M TALKING ABOUT EITHER PARTY.

BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNOR ABBOTT, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, ONCE AGAIN, WE TALK ABOUT JUST LIKE MUNICIPALITY DOESN'T HAVE AN OBLIGATION REGARDING IMMIGRATION OR NATIONAL SECURITY, NEITHER DOES THE STATE.

HOWEVER, WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS FAILING?

SOMEBODY HAS TO TAKE ACTION.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THE GOVERNOR OR NOT, AT LEAST THERE'S A SENSE OF ACTION THAT HE'S TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE THINK, WE BELIEVE IS WE'RE FAILING FROM OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> AND WITH THESE TRAGEDIES, AND WE SAW IT DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, YOU SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS, DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN, HAVE ALL FAILED.

WE SAW TERRIBLE TRAGEDIES OF FAMILIES BEING SEPARATED AND THE LIKE, AND NOW WE'RE SEEING, LAST WEEK, A WOMAN AND TWO CHILDREN ALL MIGRANTS FROM MEXICO DROWNING NEAR EAGLE PASS, TEXAS, WHERE STATE AUTHORITIES HAD HAMPERED FEDERAL ACCESS.

TEXAS DISPUTES THIS, BUT THERE'S REAL COST IN HUMAN LIFE, AS WELL, TO THESE POLITICAL INABILITY TO FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION.

>> AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF LIVES LOST, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT, BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE, OR, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S FAILURE TO ACT OR ACT PROPERLY.

IT IS NOT OUR OBLIGATION.

IT IS THEIRS TO ACT, TO KEEP ON SETTING POLITICAL ISSUES ASIDE AND WORK WITH US, WORK FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, FOR NATIONAL SECURITY, BECAUSE IN REALITY, IT REALLY IS NOW INTERTWINED.

>> SO, AS YOU KNOW, BETTER THAN I DO, THE SENATE APPEARS IN THE MIDST AND CLOSE TO A BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT ON THE BORDER.

ON SECURITY THERE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE BACKS THE BILL, EVEN THOUGH IT PROMISES TO RESTRICT ASYLUM CLAIMS, AND HE'S GETTING PRESSURE FROM HIS LEFT WING.

HERE'S HIS POSITION.

LET ME JUST PUT THIS TO YOU.

>> MY TEAM HAS BEEN AT THE TABLE FOR WEEKS NOW WITH A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF SENATORS TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL, INCLUDING BORDER, BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE NEED SIGNIFICANT POLICY CHANGES AT THE BORDER.

INCLUDING CHANGES IN OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM, TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE AUTHORITY WE NEED TO CONTROL THE BORDER.

AND I'M READY TO ACT.

>> SO, AS YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS THEY'VE SENT A COMPREHENSIVE BILL TO CONGRESS, PART OF THEIR UKRAINE/ISRAEL MILITARY BILL HAS ATTACHED A REQUEST FOR 20,000 MORE BORDER GUARDS.

IS THE PRESIDENT DOING ENOUGH?

>> WELL, AT LEAST IT'S AN ATTEMPT, HOWEVER, WE ALSO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IN WASHINGTON.

TIT FOR TAT, YOU GIVE ME THIS AND I'LL TAKE THAT.

AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATELY -- LOOK, WE'RE TALKING -- WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION, IT'S A STANDALONE ISSUE THAT SHOULDN'T BE -- OF COURSE HAS TO BE WORKED WITH OTHER THINGS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY HELD HOSTAGE FOR OTHER THINGS.

I AM HAPPY THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST TRYING TO DO -- HAVE A BIPARTISAN EFFORT TO DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

IT HAS TO BE BIPARTISAN.

>> WHICH BRINGS US TO THE PROBLEM, BECAUSE EVEN IF THE SENATE COMES UP WITH SOMETHING, IT LOOKS LIKE THE MAGA REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE ARE GOING TO KILL IT.

AND IT WON'T BE -- IT WON'T BE PASSED.

IT COULD JUST DIE THERE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP, YOU KNOW, KEEPS SPOUTING ON ABOUT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND I WONDER, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THESE REPUBLICANS WHO STAND IN THE WAY OF THIS, WHO HAVE SAID IT, SINCERELY WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

OR, AS MANY HAVE DESCRIBED THEM, THE MAGA REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS, OF REALLY LIKING THE CHAOS, LIKING THE CELEBRITY, LIKING THE WHOLE SORT OF PERFORMATIVE PART OF ALL OF THIS.

DO YOU THINK, ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE ACTUALLY WANT TO COME TO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT?

>> WELL, I THINK ACTUALLY THE PROBLEM IN THE HOUSE IS REALLY THE EXTREMES OF EITHER PARTY.

NOT NECESSARILY THE MAGA REPUBLICANS OR JUST DEFINITELY THEM OR JUST DEFINITELY THE LEFT WING OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

AND WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN SAYING IT, THAT THEY UTILIZE IMMIGRATION AND OTHER SOCIAL ISSUES FOR -- TO DIVIDE PEOPLE AND TO RAISE MONEY.

AND WE KEEP ON SAYING, STOP DOING THAT.

LOOK, THERE'S A LOT MORE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE THAN THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT, HOWEVER, THEY'RE DISILLUSIONED WITH THE AMERICAN SYSTEM.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED ANYMORE.

BUT THE PROBLEM WE ARE HAVING, AND IT'S NOT JUST ONE PARTY, IT'S BOTH.

AND IT REALLY, TO ME, IS EXTREMES.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION, BECAUSE THIS HAS SHOCKED MANY PEOPLE OVERSEAS, AND IT WAS A COMMENT TRUMP MADE ABOUT MIGRANTS.

I JUST WANT TO FIRST MENTION THAT THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY -- SORRY -- YEAH, OF HOMELAND SECURITY MAYORKAS TOLD ME THERE ARE 10 MILLION OPEN JOBS.

THERE'S A CLAMORING FOR INDIVIDUALS TO FILL THEM THAT, IN THIS CASE, DOMESTIC WORKERS IN THE UNITED STATES DO NOT FILL THESE JOBS.

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S A NEED.

GIVEN THAT FACT, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING THINGS LIKE IMMIGRANTS ARE POISONING THE BLOOD OF OUR COUNTRY?

HOW DOES THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE AFFECT YOU AND HOW DOES IT HELP THE SITUATION?

>> I THINK THAT'S JUST POLITICAL TALK.

I THINK WE DO KNOW THAT THE WORK ETHIC OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE.

I KNOW THAT WE NEED WORKERS, WE DEFINITELY DO, BUT IT HAS TO BE A LAWFUL SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE POISONING THE BLOOD OF AMERICA.

I DON'T.

WE -- THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING OR CAN COME IN AND BE PRODUCTIVE AND WE KNOW WE NEED THEM, BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

>> WELL, WE -- IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE, IF YOU WERE KING, HOW WOULD YOU FIX THIS?

WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO FIX IT?

AND ESPECIALLY SINCE, YOU SAID, YOU BELIEVE THIS WILL BE A MAJOR ELECTION ISSUE.

>> IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT, BECAUSE OF THE PARTIES, BUT AT THE VERY END, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS A QUICK FIX, AS FAR AS TO STOP, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE COMING IN AND NOT THROUGH THE PARTS OF ENTRIES.

THAT IS NECESSARY, BUT MORE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL SECURITY.

OF COURSE, WORKING TOGETHER, WE KNOW WE NEED IMMIGRANTS, WE KNOW THAT OUR GUEST WORKER PROGRAM NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

WE KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE IN HERE THAT CAN BE VERY PRODUCTIVE, YET, AND LAW-ABIDING, YET WE DON'T GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY, BUT IT IS NOT UP TO US.

AND IF YOU WERE KING, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS I COULD DO, BUT I'M NOT, SO, IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO CONGRESS, TO THE SENATE, TO MAKE SURE THEY TAKE CARE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> AND THERE HAS BEEN A LONG-STANDING SET OF BIPARTISAN, YOU KNOW, SOLUTIONS THAT, AS YOU SAY, HAVE BEEN STYMIED BY THE VARIOUS POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON.

MAYOR VILLALOBOS, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING ME.

>>> AND WE TURN NOW TO ANOTHER HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, IN GAZA.

THE U.N.

RELIEF AGENCY SAYS AT LEAST NINE PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND DOZENS INJURED WHEN A U.N.

SHELTER WAS STRUCK BY TANK FIRE DURING INTENSE FIGHTING AROUND KHAN YUNIS.

ISRAEL TELLS CNN THERE IS NO CONCRETE DEAL FOR RELEASE OF HOSTAGES.

IT'S BEEN OVER THREE MONTHS SINCE THE ATTACK THAT KIDNAPPED MORE THAN 240 HOSTAGED AND KILLED 1,200 ISRAELIS.

AND ISRAEL'S COUNTEROFFENSIVE HAS KILLED 25,000 GAZANS, ACCORDING TO THE HEALTH MINISTRY THERE.

90% OF THE POPULATION HAS BEEN DISPLACED, AND ONE OF THOSE FORCED TO FLEE HER HOME IS 20-YEAR-OLD NOWARA DIAB.

DESPITE RECURRING BLACKOUTS AND SPORADIC COMMUNICATION, SHE FINALLY MANAGED TO SEND THIS VIDEO DIARY TO EXPLAIN WHAT SHE'S GONE THROUGH, INCLUDING THE LOSS OF HER CLOSEST FRIENDS.

>> AS I WALK ON THE STREETS IN GAZA, DEATH, DESTRUCTION, AND CHAOS IS ALL AROUND ME.

I OFTEN THINK ABOUT HOW MY LIFE COULD HAVE BEEN.

AND HOW I WOULD STILL HAVE A HOME, AND HOW MY TWO BEST FRIEND S WOULD STILL BE ALIVE.

I HEART ACHES EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR THEM, WHO WERE KILLED IN THEIR HOMES BY THE ISRAELI AIR STRIKES.

SHE WAS A BEAUTIFUL SOUL.

AND SO CREATIVE.

I'D ALWAYS BRAG ABOUT HOW GREAT SHE WAS.

WE TALKED FOR HOURS ON END, TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

OR JUST BEING SILLY.

>> IS IT ME, OR, ARE WE BEST FRIENDS?

>> YEAH!

>> EVERY MOMENT WITH HER WAS FULL OF LOVE AND LAUGHTER.

HER TALENT FOR PAINTING WAS EXTRAORDINARY.

THIS PAINTING OF A YELLOW FLOWER WILL ALWAYS HOLD A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART.

LITTLE DID I KNOW, IT WOULD BE HER LAST GIFT TO ME.

IT BROKE MY HEART HAVING TO LEAVE IT BEHIND, JUST LIKE I HAD TO LEAVE HER.

IBRAHIM WAS THE MOST KIND AND FUNNY PERSON I'D EVER MET.

NOT TO MENTION ALSO THE SMARTEST.

THIS KINGDOM NEEDS A KING.

WE GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER WHEN WORKING ON A PLAY ABOUT KING ODYSSEUS.

HE PLAYED THE ROLE OF THE KING.

AND WOULD JUST MAKE EVERYONE LAUGH.

♪♪ AND WAS RARELY SEEN WITHOUT HIS CAMERA, CAPTURING THE GOOD TIMES.

BUT WITH BOTH OF THEM GONE, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE WILL BE ANY GOOD MOMENTS.

I NEED THEM SO MUCH RIGHT NOW, AND I NEED THEM MORE THAN EVER, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOW IN A BETTER PLACE.

I JUST KNOW IT.

NOW, LIVE IN RAFAH IS HEARD.

I WAKE UP TRYING TO SURVIVE ANOTHER DAY.

THANKFUL MY FAMILY AND I ARE ALIVE.

FOR TWO WEEKS, WE STAYED IN A TENT IN KHAN YUNIS, SHARED BY SEVEN PEOPLE.

WATER IS THE HARDEST THING TO EVER FIND HERE.

RARELY, BOTTLES ARE GIVEN TO US, LIKE THIS ON A TRUCK.

BUT WITH SO LITTLE, WEER WITH FORCED TO DRINK SALTY WATER FOR AWHILE.

SO, IF WE DON'T DIE FROM HAIR STRIKES, WE'RE GOING TO DIE FROM DEHYDRATION AND STARVATION.

WHEN THIS WAR IS OVER, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE WAITING FOR US.

THE AGONY IN OUR HEARTS, GOING BACK HOME AND SEEING EVERYTHING CRUMBLED INTO PIECES.

GONE, JUST LIKE THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIAN MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN KILLED IN THIS WAR.

I HOPE THAT MY STORY HAS MEANT SOMETHING TO YOU.

AND YOU CAN THINK OF US AS HUMAN BEINGS, NOT JUST NUMBERS, BECAUSE THIS IS ME GIVING YOU A SNEAK PEEK INTO HELL.

>> NOWARA DIAB THERE.

THE IDF SAYS THEY DO NOT TARGET CIVILIANS, SAYING THEIR WAR IS AGAINST HAMAS.

>>> THIS WAR, PUTIN'S WAR IN UKRAINE, NOT TO MENTION THE RISK OF CONFLICT WITH CHINA, ARE WORRYING AMERICAN VOTERS.

AND AFTER TRUMP WON THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY LAST NIGHT, MANY AMERICANS ARE INCREDULOUS ABOUT ANOTHER TRUMP/BIDEN REMATCH.

ALTHOUGH NIKKI HALEY ISN'T GIVING UP JUST YET, SAYING THE RACE IS FAR FROM OVER.

TRUE TO FORM, TRUMP FALSIFIED HIS RECORD LAST NIGHT, CLAIMING TO HAVE PREVIOUSLY WON NEW HAMPSHIRE IN BOTH THE PRIMARIES AND THE GENERAL ELECTION.

IN FACT, HILLARY CLINTON BEAT HIM THERE IN 2016, AND JOE BIDEN WON IN 2020.

IT'S DEJA VU AS THE WORLD WATCHES IN DISBELIEF.

JUST BEFORE LAST NIGHT'S PRIMARY, I GOT THE GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE FROM JOURNALIST EMILY MAITLIS AND MARK LANDER.

WE STARTED WITH THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU, YOU HAVE BEEN TO ISRAEL SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

AND I'M QUITE STUNNED BY WHAT SOME ISRAELI REPORTERS ARE TELLING US, THAT THE ISRAELI PEOPLE ARE NOT SEEING THE EXTENT OF THE HUMAN SUFFERING IN GAZA.

CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU NOTICED AND WHAT EFFECT THAT'S HAVING ON THE -- ON THE POPULATION?

>> WELL, DURING MY TIME THERE, WHICH WAS NOW A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, I STILL FELT IT WAS A POPULATION THAT WAS GOING THROUGH ITS OWN TRAUMA FROM OCTOBER 7th.

>> AND IT STILL IS, OBVIOUSLY.

>> STILL IS.

AND TO THAT EXTENT, I FELT LIKE THAT TRAUMA WAS SO OVERWHELMING THAT THE CRUSHING DEATH TOLL IN GAZA WAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ABSTRACTION AT THAT POINT.

AND IT WAS NOT REALLY FILTERING IN, BECAUSE THE COUNTRY WAS, AFTER ALL, STILL RECOVERING FROM WHAT, AS THEY RIGHTLY POINTED OUT, WAS MULTIPLE -- THE EQUIVALENT OF MULTIPLE 9/11s.

HAS THAT CHANGED OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS?

I IMAGINE IT WOULD HAVE TO, WE MOVED FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY, AND THE DEATH TOLL IN GAZA HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE DEVASTATING.

AND ONE WOULD HOPE THAT IT HAS, BUT THERE IS ALSO A VERY STRONG BIAS IN THE MEDIA, AND AN EFFORT IN THE MEDIA TO KEEP THE COUNTRY ABSOLUTELY UNITED IN THIS WAR EFFORT, THAT IS REQUIRING MORE OF THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, EVEN ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, IN TERMS OF RESERVE DEPLOYMENTS, IN TERMS OF THEIR ECONOMY BEING BROUGHT TO A VIRTUAL HALT, THAN ALMOST ANY CONFLICT IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

SO, I THINK THAT'S WHY THE GAZA DEATH TOLL AND HUMANITARIAN KAS TO TROPHY HAS NOT YET REGISTERED WITH THE ISRAELI PEOPLE THE WAY IT HAS AROUND THE REST OF THE WORLD, BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY STARTED IN SUCH A DIFFERENT PLACE.

>> AND EMILY, IT'S STARTING TO RESONATE WITH ISRAEL'S CLOSEST ALLIES, WHETHER IT'S BRITAIN, WHETHER IT'S THE UNITED STATES, AND ITS NEIGHBORS WHO WANT TO NORMALIZE.

NOW EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT, THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THIS AND GET NORMALIZED RELATIONS AND SECURITY FOR ISRAEL IS TO FIRST TALK ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD, AND THE END OF OCCUPATION.

SO, I'M WONDERING HOW YOU COVER THIS ISSUE, WHAT THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HERE IS THINKING AND SAYING TODAY, ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT ISSUE, AND WHAT PRESSURE YOU SEE, FOR INSTANCE, ON EITHER THE GOVERNMENT OR ON THE LABOR PARTY, WHICH WANTS TO WIN IN THE ELECTION THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> LOOK, SO FAR, THE GOVERNMENT AND THE LABOR PARTY HAVE BEEN IN LOCK STEP ON THIS.

IT WAS DIFFICULT THE HEAD OF THE LABOR PARTY, HE TOOK OVER FROM JEREMY CORBYN, WHO FACED VERY SEVERE ACCUSATIONS OF ANTI-SEMITISM WITHIN HIS PARTY, SO, HIS APPROACH WAS TO SAY, I'M NOT JEREMY CORBYN, I GET THIS, I'M LISTENING TO ISRAEL.

AND HE MADE HIMSELF ALMOST GLUED TO RISHI SUNAK, THE PRIME MINISTER'S SIDE, ON THIS ONE, AND THEIR ESSENCE WAS, THEY WERE GOING TO BACK ISRAEL, WHATEVER IT NEEDED TO DO.

AS MARK SAYS, WHEN WE'VE SEEN THE DEATH TOLL RISE, WHEN WE'VE SEEN REALLY HOW IMPOSSIBLE IT HAS BECOME TO DEFEND WHAT IS GOING ON IN GAZA RIGHT NOW, MANY ISRAELIS, WHO WE'VE SEEN MARCHING ON THE STREETS -- >> YOU CAN SEE THE POLLS, EVEN NOW.

>> RIGHT, THEY DO NOT TRUST THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THEIR GOVERNMENT, HE HAS BROUGHT IN SERIOUS RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS TO HELP HIM FORM HIS COALITION.

HE'S ACTING IN A WAY THAT'S NOT DISSIMILAR TO TRUMP IN THAT WE THINK HE'S IN POWER TO TRY AND STAY OUT OF THE COURTS, TO STAY OUT OF ALL THE LEGAL, YOU KNOW, SORT OF HORRORS THAT ARE CHASING HIM, AND I THINK THAT IS A VERY EASY WAY TO SAY, WELL, LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE, BECAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY NOT HELPING GAZA.

IT'S CERTAINLY NOT HELPING THE MIDDLE EAST, AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT HELPING ISRAEL IN TERMS OF WHAT IT WANTS TO ACHIEVE.

IT'S NOT MAKING IT ANY EASIER TO GET HOSTAGES OUT.

>> AND THE HOSTAGES ARE KEY, BECAUSE CLEARLY, THE ISRAELI COUNTEROFFENSIVE, OR OFFENSIVE ON GAZA, IS NOT -- IS OUT OF STEP WITH ALSO TRYING TO GET WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT, AND THAT IS THEIR FAMILIES BACK.

HOW MUCH PRESSURE IS THAT STILL PUTTING ON THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT?

>> HUGE AMOUNT.

>> AND IN THE PRESS, BY THE WAY.

>> YEAH, WELL, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE DOMESTICALLY IN ISRAEL.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THESE PEOPLE OUT?

AND THE HOSTAGES ARE VERY WELL ORGANIZED, TRAVEL -- THEIR FAMILIES TRAVEL, RATHER, AND THEY APPEAR REGULARLY, ALMOST EVERY NIGHT, IN ISRAELI MEDIA.

THERE'S SOME FEATURE, SOME DISCUSSION, SOME INTERVIEW, THEY'RE VERY ELOQUENT, THEY'RE VERY ANGUISHED, AND SO, I THINK THAT IS SORT OF THE ACHILLES' HEEL FOR THIS GOVERNMENT.

THEY HAVE TO DELIVER ON THIS, AND EVERY TIME THERE'S A HORRIBLE INCIDENT WHERE HOSTAGES ARE KILLED IN COMBAT AND IT'S HAPPENED A FEW TYPES, THIS IS A HUGE SETBACK FOR THE IDF AND FOR THE ISRAELIS.

SO, I DO I THINK THAT'S ONE AREA, THAT'S A REAL LIMITATION, SOMETHING THAT NETANYAHU HAS TO THINK A LOT ABOUT.

>> I WANT TO BRING IT BACK TO THE U.S. ELECTION.

THE IDEA OF BIDEN'S AGE, IS THAT A MEDIA CONSTRUCT?

IS THAT A REAL THING?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN HAMMERING IT EVERY SINGLE TIME THERE'S A STORY -- >> YEAH, I WAS IN GEORGIA, JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS, AND WE WERE TALKING TO SOME YOUNG GUYS WHO WERE COLLEGE EDUCATED, OKAY, THEY HAD JOBS, ONE WAS A PILOT, AND THEY WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THEIR SUPPORT FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND THE WORD THEY USED WAS, HE'S A STRONG LEADER.

YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO WAR, YOU WANT A STRONG MAN BEHIND YOU.

AND IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT HOW TRUMP HAS HANDLED THE CAMPAIGNING, YOU KNOW, THE CAMPAIGN STUMP SPEECHES SO FAR, WHAT HE DOES IS, HE CARRIES ON TALKING ABOUT BIDEN'S WEAKNESS OR SORT OF FA BRILLTY.

THERE'S ONLY FOUR YEARS BETWEEN THESE TWO GUYS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD KEEP IN THE FRONT OF OUR MIND.

BIDEN IS ALWAYS SOFTLY SPOKEN.

I MEAN, I DO THINK HE HAS A SLIGHT PROBLEM WITH HIS VOICE.

HE DOESN'T ACTUALLY PROJECT ENOUGH, BECAUSE OF THE STUTTER, HE SORT OF MUMABLES A LOT.

THERE ARE WORLDS THAT ARE SWALLOWED.

AND TRUMP PERFORMS.

HE GOES OUT, HE'S BOMBASTIC, HE DOES THIS, BUT THAT IS THE MESSAGE HE WANTS TO CARRY.

QUITE FRANKLY, IF THE REPUBLICANS WERE REALLY ONTO SOMETHING, THEY WOULD PUT NIKKI HALEY IN THAT POSITION, BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY YOU CONTRAST, YOU KNOW, BIDEN'S AGE AND HER AGE, YOU KNOW, HER SORT OF NIMBLENESS AND HIS, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS NOT A YOUNG MAN, WHICHEVER WAY YOU LOOK AT IT.

HAS IT BEEN OVERPLAYED BY THE MEDIA?

I STARTED THINKING THAT AT THE BEGINNING, BUT I'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF DEMOCRATS AROUND BIDEN WHO ARE VERY WORRIED.

WHETHER IT'S ABOUT HIS AGE OR WHETHER IT'S -- >> WORRIED FOR SURE.

>> OR THE PERCEPTION OF HISSAGE, THEY ARE WORRIED.

>> I MEAN, I KEEP TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT, MARK, BECAUSE I'VE LISTENED TO PODCASTS AND OTHER THINGS, WHICH ACTUALLY SHOW THAT A LOT OF THIS IDEA IS BEING RAMPED UP ON TIKTOK AND STUFF, I MEAN, GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN FDR IN A WHEELCHAIR OR WHATEVER IT IS, ARE BEING TOLD THAT THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM.

SO, I'M JUST -- HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

>> WELL, LOOK, WE LIVE WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT IN A VISUAL AGE, IN A TELEVISION AGE, A TIKTOK AGE, AND SO, WHAT EMILY SAYS IS RIGHT.

IT DOESN'T MUCH MATTER IF JOE BIDEN'S AGE IMPEDES HIS ABILITY TO DO HIS JOB WELL, WHICH I THINK IT PROBABLY DOESN'T, HE'S SURROUNDED BY TERRIFIC ADVISERS, HE'S FORGOTTEN MORE ABOUT AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY THAN MOST PEOPLE EVER LEARNED.

HE BRINGS A HUGE AMOUNT OF WISDOM, AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS, I DON'T HAVE THE SENSE THAT HE IS NOT ON HIS GAME ON MAKING LOOK AT HIS RECORD, IT ACTUALLY STANDS UP WELL TO THE LAST FEW PRESIDENTS, SOME OF WHOM WHO WERE DECADES YOUNGER THAN HIM AT THE TIME.

NONE OF THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS AS A POLITICAL QUESTION, BECAUSE IF PEOPLE THINK BECAUSE HE'S OLD HE'S WEAK, AND DONALD TRUMP IS STRONGER, THEN THAT'S THE BALL GAME.

SO, I SORT OF FEEL LIKE THAT -- YOU CAN HAVE THAT DEBATE, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I THINK OR WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT HIS COMPETENCE, IT MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS THINK.

SO, IF THEY THINK HE'S TOO OLD -- NOW, WHERE I THINK WE CAN PLAY A ROLE AS THE PRESS, AND PARTICULARLY PEOPLE WHO COVER PRESIDENT BIDEN DAY-TO-DAY, IS TO -- IS TO WRITE ABOUT THIS INTELLIGENTLY, THOUGHTFULLY, IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE'S EVIDENCE THAT JOE BIDEN'S AGE ACTUALLY IS A PERFORMANCE ISSUE FOR THEM, THEN WE SHOULD POINT THAT OUT, RIGHT?

AND THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF PLACES WHERE HE'S MADE GAFFES, HE'S HAD TO BE CLEANED UP THE NEXT DAY BY AIDES ON SOME IMPORTANT ENOUGH ISSUES.

BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT HE'S CONDUCTED THE BUSINESS OF THE PRESIDENT VERY COMPETENTLY, SO, OUR JOB IS TO DO THAT.

THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT ARE IS SIMPLY GOING TO BE UP TO THE VOTERS TO DECIDE.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT WHO TRUMP IDOLIZES, IT'S THE STRONGMEN OF EUROPE.

IT'S ERDOGAN IN TURKEY, IT'S ORBAN IN HUNGARY.

WHEN HE THINKS OF THESE STRONGMEN, IT'S NOT A PHYSICAL THING, IT'S ABOUT AUTHORITARIANISM.

>> I WONDER IF THE VOTERS WHO SAY THEY WANT A STRONG MAN KNOW THAT, BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND -- >> IT'S VERY EASY TO ALIGN TWO THINGS, DOESN'T IT?

TO BE TALKING ABOUT AUTHORITARIANISM AND POINT TO A MAN WHO IS SLIGHTLY STOOPED AND GO, YOU WON'T GET STRENGTH FROM HIM.

THE NUMBER HERE THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT, THAT IS LEAVING PEOPLE JAW-DROPPED, IS THE 66% OF IOWA VOTERS WHO BELIEVE DONALD TRUMP'S LIE.

THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CONVINCED THAT DONALD TRUMP IS THE RIGHT PRESIDENT OF THIS TIME AND THAT HIS QUESTIONING OF THE LEGITIMACY OF JOE BIDEN IS SOMETHING THAT HE'S TAKEN TO IOWA.

SO, I THINK ALL THE REPORTING THAT WE DO SHOULD COME ACTUALLY FROM THAT PRISM.

THAT HE IS AN ELECTION DENIER, THAT HE HAS MANAGED TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF THE LIES THAT HE'S BEEN TELLING FOR THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS, THAT HE'S USING HIS 91 INDICTMENTS AS A FUND-RAISING TOOL.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT ANY OF US CAN BE COVERING YOUR ELECTION, THE AMERICAN ELECTIONS, WITHOUT ACTUALLY STARTING FROM THAT PLACE.

IF THAT IS NOT A SORT OF -- A BLACK CLOUD ACROSS YOUR FOREHEAD OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE SAYING ON AIR, EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE WRITING AND THINKING ABOUT, THEN WE'RE NOT DOING OUR JOBS PROPERLY.

>> I JUST WANT TO DOUBLE DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

ARE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD SURE THAT HE'S GOING TO BE -- YOU SAY THIS FEELING OF INEVITABILITY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO LOOK STUPID AND SAY, OF COURSE HE COULDN'T WIN, BECAUSE HE DID IN 2016?

>> I THINK THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF THAT, YES.

I THINK IF YOU DRILL DOWN WITH PEOPLE AND SAY, DO YOU TRULY, GENUINELY, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE OUTCOME, THEY WILL ACKNOWLEDGE, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE.

THEY'VE BEEN SURPRISED BEFORE, POLITICS IS INHERENTLY UNPREDICTABLE, U.S.

POLITICS THESE DAYS IS PARTICULARLY UNPREDICTABLE.

SO, I THINK THAT SOPHISTICATED ANALYSIS OF THIS, IN THE WORLD AT LARGE, ACKNOWLEDGES THAT NOTHING IS INEVITABLE HERE.

A PRESIDENT WHO, AS EMILY SAYS, IS FACING 91 CRIMINAL COUNTS, RATHER, A CANDIDATE WHO IS FACING 91 CRIMINAL COUNTS, THAT HE COULD EMERGE AS PRESIDENT, THERE'S SOMETHING SLIGHTLY INCREDULOUS ABOUT THAT.

SO, I THINK THAT IT IS A -- IT'S MORE OF AN EMOTIONAL FEELING.

THAT IF THE COUNTRY WAS CAPABLE OF DOING THIS ONCE BEFORE, AND THEY SEE THESE KINDS OF NUMBERS, THIS KIND OF INCREDIBLE RESILIENT, UNSHAKABLE LOYALTY ON THE PART OF MAGA NATION, I THINK IT JUST -- IT MORE RESIDES IN THE PIT OF THEIR STOMACH.

WE NEED TO START PLANNING AS THOUGH IT MAY HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> YEAH.

EMILY, MARK, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> OUR CONVERSATION JUST BEFORE THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY.

>>> AND NOW, WE TURN TO THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP IN THE UNITED STATES.

"THE BARBER OF LITTLE ROCK" IS A SHORT DOCUMENTARY THAT FOLLOWING THE STORY OF ARLO WASHINGTON.

HE RUNS A BARBER COLLEGE IN ARKANSAS, AND A CREDIT UNION DEDICATED TO SERVING THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

THE FILM EXPOSES ISSUES OF SEGREGATION AND ECONOMIC INEQUALITY THAT PERSIST TO THIS DAY.

AND MICHEL MARTIN SPOKE WITH WASHINGTON AND WITH JOHN HOFFMAN, ONE OF THE FILMMAKERS, SHORTLY AFTER THEY RECEIVED THE NEWS THAT THEIR FILM HAD BEEN NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

JOHN HOFFMAN, ARLO WASHINGTON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> OUR PLEASURE.

>> AND A CONGRATULATIONS ON THE OSCAR NOMINATION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> MR. WASHINGTON, YOU HAVE BEEN A BARBER IN LITTLE ROCK, IN YOUR COMMUNITY, FOR, WHAT, GOSH, MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON, I JUST -- I'M JUST NOT SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT A BARBER IN SOME COMMUNITIES DOES.

COULD YOU JUST DESCRIBE FOR FOLKS WHO MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THIS, WHAT ROLE ABARBER CAN PLAY IN HIS COMMUNITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE BARBER IS THE CORNERSTONE OF THE BRICK BUILDING AND THE PILLAR OF THE COMMUNITY.

BASH BARBERS ARE ESSENTIAL.

BARBERS WERE HIGHLY ESTEEMED INDIVIDUALS IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THEY DID THE TOOTH PULLING, THEY DID THE BLOOD LETTING.

WE HAVE DENTISTS AND DOCTORS BECAUSE OF THE BARBER PROFESSION.

IT'S ONE OF THE OLDEST AND MOST PRESTIGIOUS PROFESSIONS.

SO, BASH BARBERS ARE A MELTING POT, OR A COMMUNITY GATHERING, FOR PEOPLE NEEDING SERVICES.

>> BUT YOU -- YOU OPENED THE COMMUNITY'S FIRST COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FINANCIAL INCONSTITUTION, THIS IS BACK IN 2008.

YOU KNOW, BEING A BARBER IS NO SMALL THING.

RUNNING A BUSINESS IS NO SMALL THING.

RUNNING A BARBERING SCHOOL IS NO SMALL THING.

SO, HOW DID YOU GET THE IDEA TO OPEN THIS FINANCIAL INSTITUTION?

>> WE EMERGED OUT OF UNMET CREDIT NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY.

IN 2009, ARKANSAS BECAME A CREDIT DESERT, WITH THE PROHIBITION OF PREDATORY PAYDAY LENDING, AND FROM THAT, WE BEGAN TO GET COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO COME AND ASK FOR LOANS.

AND THAT'S HOW WE STARTED, AND LIKE MOST SMALL BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, I STARTED IT OUT OF MY POCKET.

BEING A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER IN THE COMMUNITY, AND GROWING UP IN THE COMMUNITY, AND EXPERIENCING GENERATIONAL POVERTY MYSELF, I KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF ACCESS TO CAPITAL, AND, YOU KNOW, BEING A BARBER IN THE COMMUNITY FOR SO LONG, AND PROVIDING SERVICES, BEING IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY, I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE FOR AND CREATE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE UNMET CREDIT NEEDS TO BE MET.

WHENEVER INDIVIDUALS WOULD COME TO THE BARBER SCHOOL AND INQUIRE ABOUT LOANS, WE WOULD PROVIDE THEM WITH SMALL DOLLAR SHORT-TERM LOANS TO BE ABLE TO MEET THEIR IMMEDIATE UNMET NEED.

AND IT GREW FROM THERE, FROM PROVIDING LOANS TO OUR STUDENT POPULATION, THOSE THAT WERE NEEDING WRAPAROUND SERVICES LIKE CHILD CARE, TRANSPORTATION, FOOD, SHELTER, PROVIDING THOSE SERVICES, BEING ABLE TO HELP THEM TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE PROGRAM.

WE SAW THERE WAS A MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT THAT JUST WASN'T AVAILABLE IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND WE -- AND I BEGAN TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON PREDATORY PAYDAY LOANS AND HOW PAYDAY LOANS WAS AFFECTING MY COMMUNITY, PUTTING INDIVIDUALS IN DEBT TRAPS, WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE A SAFER ALTERNATIVE FOR OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT WOULD IMPACT THEIR CREDIT, HELP THEM TO BUILD AND GENERATE WEALTH.

>> MR. HOFFMAN, HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT MR. WASHINGTON'S WORK?

>> WELL, CHRISTINE TURNER, MY CODIRECTOR, WANTED TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP, AND IN OUR SORT OF DEEP DIVE INTO THE PROBLEM, WE READ A BOOK CALLED "THE COLOR OF MONEY", WHICH IS A REMARKABLE BOOK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF BLACK BANKING SINCE RECONSTRUCTION AND HOW IT'S JUST A SERIES OF FAILURE AFTER FAILURE OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

BUT SHE SHE CALLS OUT A PROGRAM THAT WAS CREATED DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, CDFIs, WHICH IS A PROGRAM RUN BY THE FED, THAT GETS CAPITAL INTO UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, URBAN CENTERS, RURAL COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE CLINTON UNDERSTOOD THAT IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL, THEY CAN'T BUILD SMALL BUSINESSES THEY CAN'T GET LOANS FOR THEIR CARS OR FOR THEIR HOMES, THEIR FARMS.

SO I WAS POINTED TO A CONVERSATION BETWEEN BILL CLINTON, DURING COVID, AND A WOMAN NAMED DONNA GAGAMBRELL, THE FIRST HEAD OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

AND I REACHED OUT TO HER.

SHE'S NOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK BANKERS.

AND I SAID, DONNA, WE WANT TO IMBED IN ONE OF THESE CDFIs, ONE OF THESE HIGH TOUCH LOAN INSTITUTIONS IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND LIVE THERE FOR A YEAR, AND FOLLOW THE MONEY, SEE HOW ACCESS TO CAPITAL CAN TRANSFORM PEOPLE'S LIVES.

BY CREATING OPPORTUNITIES.

AND SO, SHE SAID, THERE'S THIS GUY IN LITTLE ROCK, HIS NAME IS ARLO WASHINGTON, AND HE HAS A BARBER COLLEGE, AND HE HAS A SHIPPING CONTAINER IN THE PARKING LOT OF HIS BARBER COLLEGE AND IT IS THIS CDFI.

AND WE WERE LIKE, WE HAVE TO GO TO ARLO.

THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENED.

>> PEOPLE ARE SHARING SOME OF THEIR DEEPEST WOUNDS, AND I -- MR. WASHINGTON, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CERTAINLY HAVE TO KNOW THAT, RIGHT?

AND I WAS JUST WONDERING IF IT WAS HARD TO KIND OF PERSUADE PEOPLE THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS WAS NOT TO KIND OF MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE OR -- >> RIGHT.

>> LOOK DOWN ON THEM, BUT TO ELEVATE THE WORK.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

OF COURSE WHEN YOU HAVE A TALK ABOUT MONEY AND NEED, THAT'S A VERY SENSITIVE SUBJECT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE ON THE RECEIVING END OF IT, AND TELLING THEIR STORIES IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW -- THESE WERE VERY AUTHENTIC AND ORGANIC, AND THEY WERE IN NEED, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE, IF YOU'RE IN NEED, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT WHO IS WATCHING OR WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU JUST KNOW THAT YOU NEED YOUR LIGHT BILL PAID, YOU NEED HELP WITH YOUR RENT, BECAUSE YOU'RE ABOUT TO BE EVICTED OR YOU ARE HOMELESS AND YOU NEED TO BE PLACED.

AND LIFE IS HAPPENING, IT'S A CRISIS.

THIS IS A GRANT, JUST AN EMERGENCY GRANT, YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY CLOTHES, YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY TRANSPORTATION.

EVERYTHING BURNT UP.

>> FOR 17 DAYS IN A HOTEL.

MAN.

>> THERE YOU GO.

HOW MUCH IS THE WEEKLY RENT?

>> THE WEEKLY RUNT?

>> UH-HUH.

>> IT'S NOT WEEKLY.

SHE WAS GOING TO CHARGE ME $545 A MONTH.

>> MY MOTHER PASSED AWAY WITH CANCER, AND SO, I'M JUST THINKING, SINCE YOU, YOU KNOW, IN THAT SITUATION, MAYBE IF WE WAS ABLE TO DO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A GRANT FOR A MONTH, THAT WOULD GIVE YOU TIME TO FIND A PLACE, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WORKS?

>> THAT WOULD HELP ME.

>> I THINK THAT WILL HELP.

WHAT YOU THINK?

>> IT WOULD HELP ME A LOT.

>> MR. HOFFMAN, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, YOU ARE COMING TO THIS, BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE MORE, THIS IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES BEING HISTORICALLY UNDERSERVED AND UNDERSERVED TO THIS DAY.

THERE THINGS IN THE COURSE OF YOUR REPORTING THAT SURPRISED EVEN YOU OR THAT REALLY STAY WITH YOU, EVEN NOW?

>> I THINK THAT THE RACIAL DIVIDE AND THE ECONOMIC DIVIDE IN LITTLE ROCK, AND THE EXTENT OF IT, REALLY CHALLENGED ME AND MY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT CITIES IN AMERICA IN 2022 AND 2023 WHEN WE WERE MAKING THIS FILM.

YOU KNOW, THE TWO SIDES OF LITTLE ROCK ARE DIVIDED BY AN INTERSTATE, AND THAT -- THE EFFECTS OF RED-LINING ARE STILL BEING FELT.

THERE ARE -- THERE ARE STRONG REVERBERATIONS OF RED-LINING THAT ARE STILL AT WORK, AT PLAY, IN OUR AMERICAN CITIES.

IT'S NOT JUST LITTLE ROCK, IT'S CITIES ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY.

SO, ARLO AND SCOTT GREEN, WHO HAPPENS TO BE THE NEPHEW OF EARNEST GREEN, FELL ON THIS TOUR OF THE 12th STREET CORRIDOR, WHICH IS A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE LITTLE ROCK CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL IS, WHICH, PRIOR TO INTEGRATION, WAS, YOU KNOW, A WEALTHY, WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD.

YOU SEE THESE ENORMOUS HOMES, BEAUTIFUL, OLD HOMES, ABANDONED, BOARDED UP.

TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS LACK OF OPPORTUNITY.

THERE'S NOT AN ATM, YOU KNOW, FOR LITERALLY MILES FOR THE COMMUNITY.

AND THE FILM EXPLORES THAT AND PORTRAYS THAT.

ARLO AND SCOTT GREEN DRIVE ACROSS THE INTERSTATE, THE WHITE FLIGHT AFTER INTEGRATION, LEFT LITTLE ROCK CENTRAL NEIGHBOR, YOU KNOW, BEREFT OF OPPORTUNITY.

AND THEY GO LITERALLY ACROSS THE HIGHWAY TO A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THERE ARE 14 BANKS SERVING ONLY 8,000 PEOPLE, WHERE THERE'S ZERO BANKS SERVING 30,000 BLACK MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.

ZERO.

AND SO, WHAT ARLO IS DOING AND THE CDFI PROGRAM THAT HE HAS CREATED, YOU SEE THAT IT IS HAVING A MEASURABLE IMPACT ON THE LIVES OF PEOPLE IN LITTLE ROCK.

AND IT'S NOT JUST A FEW LIVES.

IT'S THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARLO IS IMPACTING.

HE'S CREATING JOBS.

AND HE SPEAKS ABOUT THAT IN THE FILM.

THAT YOU HAVE TO -- YOU CAN'T DEVELOP THE COMMUNITY UNLESS YOU DEVELOP THE PEOPLE.

SO -- AND YOU CAN'T DEVELOP THE PEOPLE UNLESS THEY HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL.

>> MR. WASHINGTON, WHAT'S THE AVERAGE LOAN, AND WHAT'S THE REPAYMENT RATE?

>> RIGHT, THE AVERAGE LOAN IS ANYWHERE FROM $500 TO $2,500.

AND THE REPAYMENT IS ABOUT -- OUR DEFAULT RATE IS ABOUT 6%.

>> 6%?

>> YES.

>> SO, THAT MEANS THAT -- >> TODAY.

TODAY.

>> 94% OF THE PEOPLE PAY THE LOANS BACK?

>> YES.

>> SO, THE ARGUMENT, MR. WASHINGTON, THAT THE BIG BANKS MAKE ABOUT WHY THEY DON'T SERVE THAT COMMUNITY IS THEY FIGURE PEOPLE ARE POOR AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PAY THE LOANS BACK.

BUT PEOPLE DO PAY YOUR LOANS BACK.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, SO, WE HAVE DIFFERENT LOAN PRODUCTS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE -- AND OUR PRODUCT, OUR LOAN PRODUCTS MEET COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHERE THEY ARE ON THEIR FINANCIAL JOURNEY.

WE ALSO PROVIDE DEVELOPMENTAL SERVICES, AS WELL, LIKE FINANCIAL LITERACY AND TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

BUT THE MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT HERE IS THE SMALL DOLLAR LOAN, THE CONSUMER LOAN, BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE GAPS THAT INDIVIDUALS AND COMMUNITIES EXPERIENCE, IT'S THAT SHORT-TERM FUNDING OPPORTUNITY THAT KEEPS THEIR -- KEEPS THEIR CREDIT IN GOOD, HEALTHY SHAPE.

KEEPS THEIR, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO STAY IN THEIR HOME OR KEEP THEIR CAR.

AND -- BUT LIFE, CIRCUMSTANCES HAPPEN, AND SO PAYDAY LENDERS, PREDATORY PAYDAY LENDERS, YOU KNOW, ARE RIGHT THERE AT THE DOOR TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE CAPITAL THAT A TRADITIONAL BANK JUST SIMPLY WON'T PROVIDE Z BECAUSE OF IT BEING SUCH A SMALL DEAL.

BUT THIS IS A TRILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY, AS WELL, SO, EVEN THOUGH IT'S PREDATORY TO SOME PEOPLE, IT'S HELPFUL TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T GET HELP ANYWHERE ELSE.

SO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDING THAT MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT HERE IN ARKANSAS, WITH IT BEING THE ONLY STATE THAT WAS BLACKED OUT FOR AWHILE WITH THE 17% RATE CAP, IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, STILL IS WHAT CREATED THE INTERIOR COUNTIES BEINGAL CREDIT DESERT.

COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE DRIVING TO BORDER STATES TO ET BE LOANS OR GOING ONLINE AND STILL ACCESSING THESE PREDATORY PAYDAY LOANS, MERCHANT CASH ADVANCES FOR THEIR BUSINESS, AND THERE WAS AN UNMET CREDIT NEED THAT JUST WASN'T BEING FILLED FOR THOSE LOANS THAT WERE $50,000 AND LESS.

>> WE SAW IN THE FILM THAT INITIALLY, YOU WERE FUNDING THESE LOANS OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE YOU KNEW ASKED YOU.

HOW DO YOU FUND IT NOW?

>> IT'S FUNDED NOW THROUGH GRANTS AND LOANS.

LOW-COST, LONG-TERM LOANS.

CDFIs, THE MODEL OF CDFIs IS, IS DEBT CAPITAL.

A LOT OF IT IS DEBT CAPITAL.

SO, WE BORROW MONEY AT A LOWER RATE AND THEN WE RELEND IT AT A HIGHER RATE, CDFIs ARE SPREAD LEPDERS, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT, I JUST WANTED TO HELP, AND BE A RESOURCE.

AND WE WERE RESTRICTED ON THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT WE WERE ABLE TO DEPLOY, OR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE WERE ABLE TO LEND EACH MONTH, YOU KNOW?

I WOULD -- I SET ASIDE $1,000 OUT OF MY PAYCHECK AND I WOULD MAKE $250 LOANS AT 5% FOR, YOU KNOW, SIX-MONTH TERMS.

OF COURSE, THAT WASN'T SUSTAINABLE, IT WASN'T PROFITABLE, AND IT WASN'T SCALEABLE.

WE GOT MORE SOPHISTICATED AS WE BEGAN TO GROW AND BUILD CAPACITY.

>> MR. HOFFMAN, I THINK THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE, WHAT, 1,500 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THAT'S STILL NOT A LOT, COMPARED TO THE NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE UNBANKED, OR MINIMALLY BANKED, OR WHO ARE RELYING ON PAYDAY LOANS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THERE AREN'T MORE OF THESE?

>> WELL, THERE AREN'T MORE BECAUSE THE CONGRESS HAS ONLY ALLOCATED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO, YOU COULD DOUBLE, YOU COULD TRIPLE, YOU COULD QUADRUPLE THE CDFI PROGRAM AND YOU WOULD STILL HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF UNMET NEED OUT THERE.

BUT AS IT'S CONCEIVED, IT IS WORKING, CONCEPTIONALLY, SO, AGAIN, CREDIT BACK TO BILL CLINTON FOR, YOU KNOW, SEEING THAT, THAT THERE WAS AN UNMET CREDIT NEED IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT'S KEEPING COMMUNITIES DOWN.

AND SO, IT'S ABOUT $10 BILLION A YEAR RIGHT NOW IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IT'SED A MINISTERED BY THE FED.

THIS IS $10 BILLION THAT'S GOING OUT AND ARLO GETS A LITTLE PIECE OF THAT AND HE'S ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE THAT MONEY TO CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

SO, IF THE PROGRAM, IF CONGRESS DECIDED TO DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IT, THERE WOULD BE THAT MUCH MORE MONEY THAT PEOPLE LIKE ARLO COULD BE, YOU KNOW, LOANING OUT, AND CHANGING MORE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL SEE IN THE FILM IS THAT GETTING A LOAN FROM YOUR INSTITUTION, IT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENT PROCESS.

>> YOU'RE SAYING YOU INTERESTED IN A LOAN?

>> YES, MA'AM.

>> OKAY.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH YOUR BUSINESSES?

>> I DO CREDIT RESTORATION, I ALSO HAVE A T-SHIRT AND DECAL LINE.

>> OKAY.

>> DUE TO THE THINGS THAT I DEAL WITH IN LIFE, SUCH AS SICKLE CELL, HAVING A PACEMAKER, HAVING 80% MASS IN MY RIGHT BREAST, GOING TO TREATMENT ONCE A WEEK -- >> AND YOU STILL RUN THREE BUSINESSES?

>> YES, MA'AM.

>> I HEARD THAT NOW.

>> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR STAFF, YOUR EMPLOYEES HAVE SORT OF A SPECIAL SAUCE, OR A WAY THEY DEAL WITH PEOPLE OR SEE PEOPLE OR EVALUATE PEOPLE?

>> I WOULD SAY, IT'S THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HELD COMMUNITIES BACK, YOU KNOW, FOR THE MOST PART, IS FEAR AND INSECURITY OF DEALING WITH A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, BECAUSE UNBANKED AND UNDERBANKED POPULATIONS IS JUST NOT USED TO IT.

AND IT CAN BE INTIMIDATING, WHEN YOU, YOU KNOW, ARE NOT TREATED WITH THE SAME DIGNITY AND RESPECT THAT, YOU KNOW, OUR WHITE COUNTERPARTS EXPERIENCE.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE -- YOU THINK ABOUT THE HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, ABANDONMENT OF BANKS FROM LOW AND MODERATE INCOME COMMUNITIES, AND JUST THE GENERATIONAL POVERTY THAT'S CAUSED FROM THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A MENTALITY.

SO, I WOULD SAY THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCE.

>> AND MR. HOFFMAN, LET ME ASK YOU, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS EXPERIENCE OF MAKING THIS FILM THAT HAS CHANGED YOU IN SOME WAY?

>> I LOVED MAKING THIS FILM.

I THINK THAT, FOR ME TO BE WELCOMED IN, A WHITE MAN, AN OLDER WHITE MAN WITH WHITE HAIR, TO BE WELCOMED INTO -- BY ARLO AND TO ALL THESE COMMUNITIES THAT HE'S APART OF, WHETHER IT'S IN THE BARBER COLLEGE, IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER, IN THE OTHER BANK BRANCH, AND TO DEVELOP THESE FRIENDSHIPS WITH PEOPLE WHO WILL FOREVER BE IN MY LIFE, AND TO REALLY HAVE THE -- THE TRUST EXTENDED TO ME IN PARTICULAR, AND HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, A DEEP -- A DEEPLY EFFECTIVE EXPERIENCE, AND A TREASURED ONE.

>> AND MR. WASHINGTON, WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MISSION.

WITH ME.

AT THIS POINT, STAYING TRUE TO THE MISSION.

AND CLOSING THE WEALTH GAP IN AMERICA.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE -- WE NOW HAVE A FEDERAL CREDIT UNION, WE NOW ARE TAKING DEPOSITS, SO, WE ARE TAKING A WHOLISTIC APPROACH TO CLOSING THE WEALTH GAP.

WE'RE ABLE TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, FINANCIAL LITERACY WITH THE LOAN FUND, WITH THE CREDIT UNION, WE'RE ABLE TO TEACH ABOUT INVESTING AND SAVING AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO YOUR FINANCIAL STABILITY.

WHETHER YOU'RE NEEDING TO GAIN OR REGAIN ECONOMIC MOBILITY, JUST BEING A RESOURCE AND A CONDUIT OF RESOURCES, AND ENSURING THE FEDERAL PROGRAMS OR INVESTMENTS THAT ARE MADE TO GET TO THE -- MEANT TO GET TO THE COMMUNITY, GET THERE.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY LIFE'S WORK, YOU KNOW, I CONSIDER IT GOD'S WORK, I CONSIDER IT AN HONOR AND A PREF LEDGE SO SERVE.

>> ALL RIGHT, ARLO WASHINGTON, JOHN HOFFMAN, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY AND CONGRATULATIOS ONCE AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> A VITAL MISSION, INDEED.

AND WE WISH THEM GOOD LUCK AT THE OSCARS IN MARCH.

>>> AND TUNE IN TOMORROW NIGHT FOR MY INTERVIEW WITH THE AWARD-WINNING FILMMAKER AVA DUVERNAY.

SHE WILL JOIN ME ABOUT HER NEW OVIE "ORIGINS."

WE'LL DISCUSS THAT, THE OSCARS, AND MUCH MORE.

>>> FINALLY, AWAY FROM THEIR WARS, TWO SPORTING TRIUMPHS.

THE PALESTINIAN FOOTBALL TEAM MADE HISTORY, BEATING HONG KONG AND QUALIFYING FOR THE KNOCKOUT STAGES OF THE AFC ASIAN CUP FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.

WHILE OVER IN THE LAND OF OZ, UKRAINIAN TENNIS PLAYER DIANA YA STREM SKA HAS BROKEN THROUGH TO THE SEMIFINALS OF THE AUSTRALIAN OPEN, AFTER ENTERING AS A QUALIFIER.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT'S HAPPENED IN ALMOST HALF A CENTURY.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.