>> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

THE SPECIAL SESSION OF THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE RESUMED TODAY, AND WE ARE ONE STEP CLOSER TO SEEING THE MASSIVE FEDERAL RELIEF SPENDING PLAN BECOME LAW.

VERSIONS OF THE PLAN PASSED OVERWHELMINGLY IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

THE BILLS GO BACK TO COMMITTEE TOMORROW.

IN ALL, THE PLAN CALLS FOR SPENDING $772 MILLION OF THE STATE'S AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT FUNDING.

THE MONEY GOES TO SUPPORT HOSPITALS AND NURSING HOMES, BUILD OUT WATER AND SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE, EXPAND ACCESS TO BROADBAND INTERNET AND SHORE UP THE STATE'S UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND.

HOUSE GENERAL FUND BUDGET CHAIRMAN STEVE CLOUSE SAID HE'S PLEASED WITH THE PROGRESS.

>> WE HAVE HAD RESPONSES FROM MOST LEGISLATORS AROUND THE STATE WITH SUGGESTIONS OF WHAT COULD OR COULDN'T BE DONE WITH THESE FUNDS.

I THINK WE HAVE REACHED A BROAD CONSENSUS WITH SOME ONE TIME FUNDS THAT DON'T TAKE RECURRING REVENUE, BROADBAND, WATER AND SEWER PROJECTS, MAKING SURE THE COUNTIES ARE WHOLE FROM THE INMATES THEY WERE HOLDING FROM THE STATE PRISONS LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF COVID.

THE ONE ISSUE THAT WAS VERY TIME SENSITIVE WAS THE ISSUE OF REPLENISHING THE UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND UP TO THE BALANCE IT WAS IN JANUARY OF 2020.

>> LAWMAKERS HAVE GENERALLY AGREED ON THE PLAN SO FAR, BUT TODAY WE SAW SOME DISSENT ON THE PART OF DEMOCRATS.

SENATOR LINDA COLEMAN MADISON BROUGHT AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD TAKE $30 MILLION FROM THE BROADBAND FUND AND SPLIT IT UP BETWEEN HOUSING ASSISTANCE AND PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

THAT AMENDMENT DIDN'T PASS BUT THE SENATOR SAYS THE CONVERSATION IS ONGOING.

>> AND WHAT THE ALABAMA HOUSING TRUST FUND DOES IS PROVIDE MONEY FOR DOWN PAYMENT ASSISTANCE.

AS I TALKED WITH REALTORS AND OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AREA AND AS A LICENSED REALTOR MYSELF, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAD WAS TRYING TO FIND MONEY FOR DOWN PAYMENT ASSISTANCE FOR FIRST TIME HOMEOWNERS.

TRANSPORTATION IS NOT JUST AN URBAN ISSUE.

TRANSPORTATION IS A STATEWIDE ISSUE.

WE ARE TRYING TO OPEN UP THIS STATE.

WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO JOBS.

WE'RE TRYING TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND CREATING JOBS.

TRANSPORTATION HAS ALWAYS DONE THAT NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO.

AND WHEN YOU HAVE A VIABLE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, YOU HAVE BUSINESSES AND COMMUNITIES THAT SPRING UP AROUND IT.

>> THE BIGGEST STORY TODAY ISN'T IN THE LEGISLATURE BUT IN THE COURTS.

A PANEL OF FEDERAL JUDGES BLOCKED ALABAMA FROM USING ITS NEWLY REDRAWN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS IN THE UPCOMING ELECTIONS.

THE JUDGES ORDERED THE LEGISLATURE TO REDRAW THE MAPS WITH TWO DISTRICTS, NOT JUST ONE, IN WHICH BLACK VOTERS ARE A SIZEABLE PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE.

IT'S A MAJOR RULING THAT COULD HAVE FAR-REACHING POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS.

STATE SENATOR BOBBY SINGLETON WAS A PLAINTIFF IN THE LAWSUIT.

>> WHEN WE FIRST FILED THIS LAWSUIT THAT WE THOUGHT WAS JUST SHOOTING IN THE WIND, EVEN THOUGH WE FELT THAT THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, SOME REAL LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES THAT HE HAVE HAD THAT WE BROUGHT UP IN TERMS OF THE 7TH CONGRESS DISTRICT WAS GERRYMANDERED.

THE COURT AGREED WITH US AND SAID ON THIS INJUNCTIVE RELIEF IS ALLOWING US TO GO BACK AND REDRAW DISTRICTS TO GIVE MINORITIES AN OPPORTUNITY TO WIN.

SO I APPRECIATE WHAT THE COURT HAS DONE.

>> ATTORNEY GENERAL STEVE MARSHALL SAYS HE WILL APPEAL THE COURT'S RULING.

THAT HAS MOST REPUBLICANS WANTING TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT THE HIGH COURT DOES BEFORE MOVING FORWARD.

WE CAUGHT UP WITH HOUSE SPEAKER MAC MCCUTCHEON.

>> YOU KNOW, I SIDE FROM THE STANDPOINT IT WASN'T A SURPRISE, YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.

YOU NEVER KNOW HOW THE COURTS ARE GOING TO RULE.

I KNOW THAT ORIGINALLY ONE OF THE THINKS THAT THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMITTEE WAS WORKING VERY DILIGENT ON WAS TO NOT DRAW LINES ACCORDING TO RACE.

IT WAS ABOUT NUMBERS.

SO WE WILL JUST SEE.

>> THE COURT ALSO ORDERED THAT CANDIDATE QUALIFYING BE MOVED BACK TO FEBRUARY 11.

THAT DEADLINE HAD BEEN THIS COMING FRIDAY, AND NOW THE STATE IS SEEKING A CLARIFICATION FROM THE COURT: IS QUALIFYING ON HOLD FOR ALL CANDIDATES OR JUST THOSE IN CONGRESSIONAL RACES?

>> THERE WILL BE A MEETING TOMORROW, AN ELECTRONIC MEETING WHERE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED.

AND WHAT WE HOPE IS THAT THE JUDGES AND THE PLAINTIFFS' ATTORNEY'S INTENTION ARE THAT WE ARE SIMPLY TALKING ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT STATEWIDE OFFICES, THEY'RE ALL ON THE BALLOT.

WE'RE TALK ABOUT AND ENDING QUALIFYING FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS THAT CLOSE A BUSINESS ON FRIDAY FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> MORE OF MY INTERVIEW WITH SECRETARY MERRILL WHEN WE COME BACK.

>> NEXT ON THE PROGRAM, I'M JOINED BY ALABAMA SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN MERRILL.

MR. SECRETARY, THANKS FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> TODD THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AS YOUR GUEST.

>> WELL, I WANT YOU HAD ON.

WE TALKED LAST WEEK BUT HERE WE HAVE THIS MONSTER RULING OUT OF NORTH ALABAMA.

IT'S THE TALK OF THE TOWN, THE TALK OF THE STATEHOUSE.

ESSENTIALLY A FEDERAL JUDGE HAS BLOCKED THE STATE FROM USING THESE NEWLY REDRAWN CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

NEWLY DRAWN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS AND SAID THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD HAVE DRAWN TWO DISTRICTS INSTEAD OF JUST ONE IN WHICH BLACK VOTERS HAVE A SIZABLE PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE.

YOU WERE A PARTY TO THE LAWSUIT YET YOU DIDN'T DRAW THE MAPS.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ON YOUR TAKE AWAY FROM THE RULING.

>> I DID HELP DRAW MAPS IN 2011 FOR THE 2012 REAPPORTIONMENT AS MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT AS THE SECRETARY OF STATE THAT'S NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY.

OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE IMPLEMENT WHATEVER HAS BEEN GIVEN TO US BY THE LEGISLATURE.

NOW, IT'S OUR PRACTICE AND SOMETHING THAT WE ADHERED TO IN THE SEVEN YEARS AND SEVEN DAYS I HAVE HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO SERVE IN THIS ROLE IS THAT WE DON'T COMMENT ON PENDING LITIGATION.

AND I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT I WILL SAY THIS.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINKS IN QUESTION HERE, AND A NUMBER OF THINKS THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE GIVEN SOME ATTENTION BY THE COURTS.

NOW I KNOW GENERAL MARSHAL WANTS TO HAVE THIS IN REVIEW MODE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANS JUST LIKE WHEN WE APPEALED IN 2020 THE TWO CASES THAT WE HAD, ONE ON VOTER ID, ONE ON CURBSIDE VOTING AND THEY WERE PRESENTED TO JUSTICE THOMAS AFTER WE WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN THE APPELLATE COURT AND HE PRESENTED IT TO THE OTHER EIGHT JUSTICE QUESTIONS AND SAID WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE TWO CASES UP.

AND WE DID.

AND WE WON BOTH OF THEM.

AND I KNOW THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE IS THAT HE WILL TAKE IT TO THE OTHER EIGHT JUSTICES AND THEY WILL MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE CASE NEEDS TO BE HEARD.

I FEEL GOOD ABOUT WHAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN FOR OUR STATE IN THAT REVIEW PROCESS.

BUT YOU NEVER KNOW BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TENDENCIES ARE OF SOME OF THE JUSTICES IN SOME OF THE AREAS, UNLIKE WHAT WE FELT LIKE WE WERE GOING TO SEE IN THOSE TWO CASES I JUST PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED.

>> WELL, ONE OF THE BIG UPSHOTS PRACTICALLY FROM THIS RULING IS DELAYING QUALIFICATION.

THIS WEEK -- AND FRIDAY WAS THE DEADLINE FOR ANY CANDIDATE RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN ALABAMA -- TO RUN WITH THEIR PARTY N THIS RULING THE JUDGES SAID WE'RE GOING TO DELAY THIS, STAY IT, UNTIL I GUESS IT'S FEBRUARY 12 -- 11TH.

BUT EVERYONE IS SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS AROUND HERE WONDERING DOES THAT MEAN ALL CANDIDATES OR JUST CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATES?

I KNOW YOU'RE PROBABLY ASKING THE SAME THING.

>> WE ARE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT HAD TO BE ANSWERED AND WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO GET THAT ANSWER TODAY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WILL BE A MEETING TOMORROW, AN ELECTRONIC MEETING WHERE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED.

AND WHAT WE HOPE IS THAT THE JUDGES AND THE PLAINTIFFS ATTORNEYS' INTENTION IS THAT WE ARE SIMPLY TALKING ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

WE'RE NOT TALK ABOUT LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS, NOT TALKING ABOUT STATEWIDE OFFICES, NOT TALKING ABOUT COUNTY OFFICES.

THEY'RE ALL ON THE BALLOT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT END AND QUALIFYING FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS THAT CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON FRIDAY FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE AND WE WILL FIND OUT HOPEFULLY TOMORROW IF THAT INDEED IS THE CASE.

>> WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO CANDIDATES OR PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES THAT ARE A LITTLE CONFUSED BY THIS?

SHOULD THEY GO AHEAD AND QUALIFY?

SHOULD THEY WAIT?

WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE AS SECRETARY OF STATED.

>> MY ADVICE IS IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY QUALIFIED FOR OFFICE YOU MUST HAVE SOME KIND OF PLAN WHERE YOU THINK YOU CAN SUCCESSFULLY RIBBON CAMPAIGN IN ABOUT FOUR MONTHS.

VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO DO THAT EFFECTIVELY.

MY ADVICE AND COUNSEL WOULD BE THEY GO AHEAD AND QUALIFY SO THAT IS DONE AND IT'S OVER AND THEY CAN MOVE AHEAD WITH THEIR CAMPAIGN, RAISING MONEY, BLACKOUT ENDED THIS MORNING AT 12:00 A.M. AND THEY CAN PUT THEIR MONEY IN THE BANK AND TRY TO SPEND IT WISELY BETWEEN NOW AND MAY 24TH.

>> LET'S JUST SAY THAT THIS RULING STANDS.

I KNOW WE IS A LONG WAY TO GO WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT LET'S JUST SAY THE RULING STANDS AND WE DO HAVE TO REDRAW CONGRESSIONAL LINES.

HOW SOON WOULD THAT NEED TO HAPPEN IN ORDER FOR THE ELECTIONS TO GO SMOOTHLY?

>> WELL, LET'S MAKE ONE THING CLEAR.

CONGRESSIONAL BOUNDARIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REDRAWN.

NOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE LEGISLATURE IS ABLE TO DO THAT SUCCESSFULLY OR NOT WILL DEPEND ON HOW THE LEGISLATURE RESPONDS.

IF THEY GO INTO ANOTHER SPECIAL SESSION AND THEY GO AHEAD AND DO THAT, THEN THEY'VE GOT A SHORT WINDOW TO GET IT DONE ACCORDING TO WHAT THE JUDGE ASKED FOR.

IF THE JUDGE IS NOT SATISFIED WITH WHAT THE LEGISLATURE PROVIDES THEN WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS THE JUDGE ASSIGNING SOMEONE THE TASK OF REDRAWING THE DISTRICTS THE WAY THAT THE JUDGES WANT IT DONE.

AND THAT WILL HAPPEN.

WE KNOW THAT FROM WHERE THE CASE IS TODAY.

AS FAR AS THE ELECTION IS CONCERNED, THERE IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE CALENDAR THAT HAS TO BE ADHERED TO.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WE PLAN WHAT HAPPENS STARTING WITH THE DATE OF THE ELECTION BECAUSE THEN BACKING UP TO SEE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BY CERTAIN DAYS.

AND WE CAN STILL MEET ALL DEADLINES.

WE STILL MEET ALL OBLIGATIONS AND SUCCESSFULLY ADMINISTER THE ELECTION THE WAY THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DONE AS LONG AS WE GET ALL OF THIS COMPLETED BEFORE THE FIRST WEEK OF MARCH.

AND SO THAT'S REALLY THE DROP DEAD DATE ON THIS.

AND EVEN IF WE ARE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND CLOSE OUT QUALIFYING ON FRIDAY LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT JUST A MINUTE AGO, AND THEN WE HAVE TO DELAY CONGRESSIONAL QUALIFYING FOR ANOTHER TWO WEEKS, IT WON'T PUT US IN A BAD SPOT.

>> WELL, IT KIND OF PUTS PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES IN A BAD SPOT.

NOT JUST CURRENT MEMBERS BUT THOSE WHO MIGHT WANT TO RUN, YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP YOUR MINDS QUICKLY.

WHAT DO THE LINES LOOK LIKE.

DOES THAT CREATE HEADACHES FOR ALL CANDIDATES ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> IT CAN.

IF YOU'RE RETURNING FOR CONGRESS, UNLESS YOU JUST HAVE A MILLION HERE OR THERE JUST LAYING AROUND FOR YOU ZERO PICKUP AND JUST SPEND ANY WAY YOU WANT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HOARD TIME UNSEATING ANY MEMBER OF CONGRESS IN THIS DELEGATION.

WE VERY TWO FRESHMEN, AND ONLY 21 TIMES IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE HAS A PERSON SERVED ONE TERM AND NOT BEEN SUCCESSFULLY ELECTED TO OR SOUGHT ELECTION TO A SECOND TERM IN THE HISTORY OF ALABAMA.

SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE BEAT CONGRESSMEN ON A REGULAR BASIS.

THAT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.

SO I THINK THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WOULD ARE INTERESTED IN RUNNING ARE ALREADY THERE OR READY TO QUALIFY RIGHT NOW OR ALREADY HAVE QUALIFIED.

>> YOU KNOW POLITICS AS WELL AS ANYBODY IN THE STATE.

SO LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE.

BY CREATING TWO LET'S JUST SAY WINNABLE DISTRICTS FOR DEMOCRATS WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS WOULD BE, THEY WANT TWO DISTRICTS THAT ARE -- THAT HAVE ENOUGH BLACK VOTERS THAT IT WOULD BE COMPETITIVE.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S JUST ONE IN THE 7TH DISTRICT BUT IF YOU CREATE TWO THAT ARE WINNABLE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO DILUTE THE ABSOLUTE GUARANTEED WIN FROM THE 7TH DISTRICT.

GO THEY RUN THE RISK OF GIVING REPUBLICANS A CHANCE TO WIN IF THEY OUT HUSTLE THEM?

>> OF COURSE THEY DO.

AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS CAUSING A LOT OF CONSTERNATION FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

TODD, LET'S BE REALISTIC.

WHEN YOU'VE GOT 26 PERCENT AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATION IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN A CERTAIN AREA GEOGRAPHICALLY IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA THAT WOKEN ABLE TWO MAJORITY MINORITY DISTRICTS TO BE SUCCESSFULLY CREATED IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

SO WHAT YOU COME UP WITH IS WHAT THEY'RE CALLING OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS.

SO THOSE OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS WILL ENABLE SOMEONE TO BE COMPETITIVE IF YOU HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND THEN CAUCASIANS IN A PARTICULAR DISTRICT SO THAT THEY COULD BATTLE IT OUT.

NOW, IN BOTH OF THE SCENARIOS THAT I HAVE SEEN, THE MAJORITY POPULATION IN EACH ONE OF THOSE DISTRICTS IS CAUCASIAN, IN BOTH OF THEM.

AND WITH THAT BEING THE CASE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A REAL HARD TIME CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT YOU WILL DEFINITELY BE SUCCESSFUL.

AND SO IT COULD BE THAT WE GO FROM HAVING 1 MAJORITY MINORITY DISTRICT WITH ONE DEMOCRAT GUARANTEED TO WIN EVERY TIME TO HAVING 7 REPUBLICAN WHITES ELECTED TO REPRESENT ALABAMA IN THE U.S. CONGRESS.

>> IT'S KIND OF A BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR -- >> BECAUSE YOU MIGHT GET IT.

>> WELL, SECRETARY MERRILL THANK YOU FOR COMING ON TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THIS STUFF AND WE WILL BE FOLLOWING IT GOING FORWARD.

>> THANK YOU, TODD.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD BEING WITH YOU.

>> WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> NEXT ON THE PROGRAM I'M JOINED BY STATED SENATOR RODGER SMITHERMAN OF BIRMINGHAM.

SENATOR, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN THE STATEHOUSE WITH THE SPECIAL SESSION BUT SOME OF THE BIGGEST NEWS CAME OUT OF NORTH ALABAMA WITH THE COURT CASE.

THE RULING ESSENTIALLY INSTRUCTS THE LEGISLATURE TO GO BACK AND REDRAW CONGRESSIONAL LINES, NOT LEGISLATIVE BUT CONGRESSIONAL LINES WITH TWO DISTRICTS WHERE BLACK VOTERS ARE A SIZABLE PORTION OF THE ELECTORATE.

YOU AND YOUR CAUCUS BROUGHT THE LAWSUIT.

WHAT WAS THE CASE THAT YOU MADE?

>> WELL, SIMPLY -- WE STARTED OUT BY -- IN FACT WE BROUGHT THE FIRST SUIT.

THERE ARE TWO OR THREE SUITS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT REGARDING THE ISSUE.

BUT WE WERE THE ONES THAT INITIALLY FILED THE FIRST SUIT EARLY ON.

ONE OF THE MAIN PROBLEMS OF THAT IS GERRYMANDERING GOING INTO JEFFERSON COUNTY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTY AND PULLING AFRICAN-AMERICANS OUT TO BE A PART OF A DISTRICT THAT GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SELMA AND FURTHER.

AND THAT'S CLEARLY GERRYMANDERING.

THAT'S WHAT THE DEFINITION IS, TO GO IN AND MAKE A PEERLESS INTO AN AREA, PULLING OUT PEOPLE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSES OF ASSISTING OTHER AREAS OF THAT DISTRICT TO MAKE UP THE POPULATION.

AND THAT'S WHAT THEY DID CAN AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

THEY GOT ALL OF THE ONES OUT OF JEFFERSON COUNTY AND BIRMINGHAM AND THAT AREA IS PUT THEM IN 7.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE BASE AND THE MAIN BASE THAT HE BROUGHT OUR SUIT.

THE MIDDLETON COMPLAINT BROUGHT IT BASED ON THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

WHAT THE COURT DID WAS THE COURT SAID THEY WERE GOING TO RESERVE OUR ISSUE WITH THE GERRYMANDERING, AND THEY MADE THE RULING BASED ON THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IN SECTION 2.

SO THE COURTS STILL HEAD -- OUR SUIT IS STILL THERE BUT THEY VOTED FIRST TO TRAVEL WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IN SECTION 2.

AND THAT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT IN THAT BASED ON THAT THAT'S WHEN THE COURT SAID THAT -- CAME OUT WITH THE RULING THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

AND THOSE ARE WHAT ARE CALLED OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS.

AND I THINK THEY LOOKED AT VOTING.

THEY LOOKED AT PATTERNS AND OTHER ELECTIONS AND SAW THAT IN THOSE DISTRICTS THAT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, WITH KEEPING THOSE DISTRICTS VERY OPEN MINDED AND THEY'RE ISSUE DRIVEN AS IT RELATES TO WHO THE CANDIDATES ARE AND I THINK THAT GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS TO BE A PART OF BOTH OF THOSE DISTRICTS.

THE OTHER THING IS THIS: IF YOU LOOK AT OUR POPULATION IN THE STATE AND HOW IT HAS GROWN -- YOU KNOW I CAN REMEMBER WHEN THE POPULATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS WAS 24-POINT SOMETHING PERCENT OR 25 PERCENT.

BUT THE POPULATION RIGHT NOW IS RIGHT AT 28 PERCENT AND ALMOST CLIMBING UP TO 30 PERCENT.

THE ADVANTAGES OF THAT IS THAT THAT INCREASE IN POPULATION WAS A BIG PART IN MY OPINION WHY WE DIDN'T LOSE A CONGRESSIONAL SUIT.

WE HAD TO INCREASE OUR POPULATION, AND A LOT OF OUR POPULATION INCREASES WERE AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THIS STATE.

PEOPLE WHO GET MOVED IN AND WHO BECAME A PART OF THE STATE.

AS SUCH, NOW AFRICAN-AMERICANS MAKE UP 1/3 OF THE STATE YOU KNOW BASICALLY IF YOU ROUND IT OFF, IT'S 1/3 OF THE STATE, SO INSTEAD OF APPROACHING OF IT LIKE WE ONLY REPRESENT 1/4 OF THE STATE, NOW WE REPRESENT 1/3 OF THE STATE AND I THINK THESE OPPORTUNITY DISTRICT LESS GIVE AFRICAN-AMERICANS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOME REPRESENTATION.

AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY GUARANTEE IN THOSE SITUATIONS THEY'RE GOING TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN BLOWS GET ELECT BUT THEIR ISSUES AND THEIR IMPACT ON BEING ABLE TO ELECT SOMEONE ADDRESSING THEIR ISSUES IS GOING TO BE GREATLY ENHANCE BID THESE DISTRICTS.

>> WELL, ASSUMING THAT THE RULING STANDS WALK ME THROUGH WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

I MEAN DO YOU LITERALLY PULL OFF THE SHELF THE DISTRICTS THAT YOU HAD PROPOSED AND MAYBE A ESSENTIAL SESSION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

WHAT IS THE NEXT THING THAT HAPPENS?

>> WELL, THE NEXT THING THAT SHOULD HAPPEN IS THAT NOW THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD GO BACK AND DRAW DISTRICTS THAT WILL REFLECT THE ORDER OF THE COURT AND PRESENT THOSE.

IF THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOT DO THAT, THEN THE COURT HAS THE PREROGATIVE TO BRING IN THEIR EXPERTS AND DRAW THE DISTRICTS THEMSELVES.

SO THAT'S -- THAT'S THE DIRECTION I THINK THAT'S GOING TO GO.

I HAVE HEARD THEY'RE GOING TO APPEAL THE RULINGS.

SO BASED ON THAT APPEAL WHETHER OR NOT WE WILL BE PURSUING DOWN THAT AVENUE WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS SECTION TWO VIOLATION OR IF THE COURT THEN WILL HAVE TO COME BACK ASK LOOK AT THE GERRYMANDERING ISSUE WHICH WE PRESENTED.

BUT EITHER WAY I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT THOSE DISTRICTS WILL BE REDRAWN TO BE OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHETHER OR NOT THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO DO IT OR WHETHER THE COURTS ARE GOING TO DO IT.

>> HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES IN THE MAJORITY OR THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS -- I KNOW THE RULING IS BRAND-NEW.

BUT ARE THERE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, THE MAJORITY?

>> NO, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS YET BECAUSE I JUST HEARD THE RULING TODAY.

AND OF COURSE WE WERE IN A SPECIAL SESSION DEALING WITH THE FUNDS, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE HAVING TO ALLOCATE.

I DO ANTICIPATE BEFORE WE LEAVE HERE THAT WE WILL HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS AS IT RELATES TO WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING AND TAKING THAT APPROACH.

BUT IT'S JUST MY PERSONAL FEELING, I JUST THINK THAT WITH THE A.G. STATING THAT SHE GOING TO FILE SUIT THAT I THINK HE'S GOING TO DO SIT BACK AND TRY TO SEE WHAT TAKES PLACE WITH THAT SUIT BEFORE THEY MOVE.

THAT'S JUST MY GUESSTIMATION.

I'M NOT SURE AND NO ONE HAS TOLD ME THAT FROM THE MAJORITY.

>> WELL, THE RULING HAS ENORMOUS POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS.

INASMUCH AS ITS CREATING TWO OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS COULD ALLOW DEMOCRATS TO HAVE TWO CONGRESSIONAL SEATS INSTEAD OF THE CURRENT ONE, YOU COULD ALSO SEE A SCENARIO WHERE IF THEY WERE TRULY TIGHT SORT OF MODERATE IF YOU WILL, DISTRICTS, WHERE REPUBLICANS END UP WINNING BOTH OF THEM AND THEN RUNNING THE TABLE WITH SEVEN CONGRESSIONAL SEATS AND NONE FOR DEMOCRATS.

IS THAT A CONCERN TO YOU AND THE CAUCUS ABOUT MAYBE BACKFIRING ON THIS LAWSUIT?

>> NO.

NO CONCERN HAS BEEN EXPRESSED ABOUT THE CAUCUS ITSELF SO FAR.

AND I DON'T.

I THINK THAT AT ANY RATE YOU RUN THAT SITUATION.

YOU CAN LOOK AT REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS WHO REPPED CULLMAN AREA.

IN THE SINGLE DIGITS IF NOT THE VERY LOW DOUBLE DIGITS AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN THAT DISTRICT BUT HE WAS ELECTED.

SO IT COULD TURN THE OTHER WAY.

BUT I THINK THAT WHOEVER IS ELECTED IS GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT DISTRICT BECAUSE IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY DISTRICT IT'S GOING TO BE DEPENDENT HEAVILY ON FROM TIME TO TIME VOTES IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY GET ELECTED SO I THINK THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF IT ALL, THAT CITIZENS WILL STILL BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE A GREAT IMPACT ON THE ISSUES THAT CONCERN THEM IN THOSE DISTRICTS.

>> SENATOR, YOU TAUGHT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW FOR MANY YEARS?

>> TWENTY-FIVE.

>> SO FROM THAT EXPERIENCE THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE COURT TO DO?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE COURT IS GOING TO LOOK AT THE SOUNDNESS OF THOSE ISSUES AS IT RELATES TO THE CONSTITUTION.

I THINK THAT THE ELEVENTH CIRCUIT BASED THAT RULING ON THE CONSTITUTION.

AND I AGREE WITH THE DEPOSITION 100 PERCENT AS IT RELATES TO THE CONSTITUTION.

ONE THING ABOUT THESE RULES AND THE LAWS IS THAT YOU KNOW, AS I SAY SO MANY TIMES IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCALES OF JUSTICE AND YOU SEE THE LADY SITTING THERE WITH THE VEIL OVER HER ICE, SHE DOESN'T SEE IF THE SCALE HERE IS AN R OR A D. ALL THAT LADY DOES IS HEAR THE LAW AND THEN MAKES A DECISION -- HEAR THE COMPLAINT OR WHATEVER AND MAKE MA DECISION BASED ON THE LAW.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE COURTS ARE GOING TO DO.

I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THEY WILL DO IT AND I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THE LAW IN THE CONSTITUTION IS ON OUR SIDE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT WITH THE DOORS OF COURTS LOOKING AT THE LAW AND WHAT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE THEM AND THEY MADE THEIR PARTICULAR RULING.

SO I'M VERY CONFIDENT ANYTIME.

I WILL GIVE YOU A LITTLE CAVEAT.

WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIAL EAR AND WE WERE IN THE MAJORITY, MY CHAIRMAN OF MY SUBCOMMITTEE WAS A MEMBER OF THE MINORITY.

BUT HE WAS A LAWYER.

BECAUSE I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOOK AT THE LAW.

DIDN'T MATTER IF HE WAS R OR D. IT'S JUST THE LAW IS GOING TO BE THE LAW.

SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IN THIS SITUATION.

THE COURT IS JUST GOING TO LOOK ABOUT THIS SITUATION, DOESN'T MATTER WHO POINTED THEM OR ANY OF THAT.

ONCE YOU GET IN THE JOB -- LIKE THE SLATE FORS, ONCE YOU GET HERE AND PAST THE ELECTION PART IT'S OUR JOB TO MOVE THE STATE FORWARD TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, R'S AND D'S, AND I THINK THE COURT IS JUST GOING TO LOOK AT THE PURE LAW AND ULTIMATELY MAKE THEIR DECISION.

>> WE WILL DEFINITELY BE WATCHING.

>> SENATOR, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND EXPLAINING IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON HERE.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

AND LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE.

>> YES, SIR.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE WILL BE BACK TOMORROW NIGHT AT 10:30 RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION WITH MORE COVERAGE FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" NEWS TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.