>> FROM OUR STATEHOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

IT WAS A QUICK DAY AT THE STATEHOUSE AS LAWMAKERS CONTINUED THEIR SPECIAL SESSION.

THE BILLS ALLOCATING THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT FUNDING ADVANCED THROUGH THEIR SECOND COMMITTEES, MEANING THEY WILL BE READY FOR FINAL PASSAGE AS SOON AS TOMORROW.

THE HOUSE SUBSTITUTED ITS BILL FOR THE SENATE VERSION TO ENSURE THE LEGISLATION IS IDENTICAL.

THAT UNIFORMITY WAS ALSO IMPORTANT TO MEMBERS OF THE SENATE GENERAL FUND COMMITTEE.

>> AS YOU CAN SEE, BECAUSE OF THE WAY THIS HAS PROGRESSED, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF WORK TO GET TO THIS POINT, A LOT OF COMPROMISING, A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS AS TO AMOUNTS AND WHAT.

WE'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL WITH THAT.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO REPEAT THE SAME PROCESS.

AND AS I THINK SENATOR SMITHERMAN MENTIONED, MAYBE INVOLVING MORE OR DIFFERENT PEOPLE TO BRING FOLKS IN, IF IT CAN BE POSSIBLE, A BROADER VIEW OR AT LEAST A LARGER VOICE, TO BE HEARD ON WHAT WE CAN DO.

AND I THINK WE'LL HAVE THE SAME RESULT.

I THINK WE'LL COME TO DECISIONS ON HOW TO SPEND THIS NEXT MONIES, AND I THINK IT WILL RUN, HOPEFULLY, AS SMOOTH AS WE HAVE THIS TIME.

>> Todd: AS WE PREVIOUSLY REPORTED, THE PLAN ALLOCATES MORE THAN $772 MILLION IN FEDERAL ARPA FUNDS.

THE MONEY IS GOING TOWARD SUPPORTING HOSPITALS AND NURSING HOMES, BUILDING OUT WATER AND SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE, EXPANDING BROADBAND INTERNET SERVICE AND SHORING UP THE STATE'S UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND.

ANOTHER BILLION IN ARPA FUNDING IS EXPECTED TO ARRIVE LATER THIS YEAR.

THE PROCESS TO ALLOCATE THESE FUNDS HAS BEEN DECIDEDLY BIPARTISAN WITH VOTES EITHER BEING UNANIMOUS OR CLOSE TO IT.

THAT'S IN STARK CONTRAST TO THE BITTER PARTISANSHIP ON DISPLAY IN WASHINGTON.

STATE SENATOR LINDA COLEMAN-MADISON SAID IT'S SOMETHING LAWMAKERS TAKE PRIDE IN.

>> I'M VERY -- REALLY VERY PROUD OF OUR DELEGATION AS FAR AS HOUSE, SENATE AND ACROSS THE BOARD REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, HOW WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER ON THIS, IDENTIFIED THOSE ISSUES THAT AFFECT OUR STATE AS A WHOLE.

AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT, AS I SAW IT, WHAT BANNER WE WERE UNDER AS FAR AS REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE WERE STATESMEN AND STATESWOMEN.

WE LOOKED AT THE NEEDS OF THE STATE AND THE ISSUES WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME AND WE ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES.

>> Todd: THE STATE HAS APPEALED THE RULING OF A THREE-JUDGE PANEL BLOCKING ALABAMA FROM GOING FORWARD WITH ITS NEWLY DRAWN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

ATTORNEY GENERAL STEVE MARSHALL FILED THE APPEAL ARGUING THAT SIMILAR MAPS HAD BEEN IN USE FOR DECADES WITH COURT APPROVAL.

MARSHALL ALSO SAID THE RULING IS PROBLEMATIC, GIVEN THAT THE PRIMARY ELECTION IS JUST A FEW MONTHS AWAY.

THE STATE IS ASKING FOR THE JUDGE'S ORDER TO BE PUT ON HOLD WHILE THE APPEAL IS HEARD.

SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN MERRILL SAID THE COURT COULD FOLLOW A FAMILIAR PROCESS IN THE APPEAL.

>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS IN QUESTION HERE AND A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE GIVEN SOME ATTENTION BY THE COURTS.

NOW, I KNOW GENERAL MARSHALL WANTS TO HAVE THIS IN REVIEW MODE.

NOW, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

THAT MEANS JUST LIKE WHEN WE APPEALED IN 2020 THE TWO CASES THAT WE HAD -- ONE ON VOTER ID AND ONE ON CURBSIDE VOTING -- AND THEY WERE PRESENTED TO JUSTICE THOMAS AFTER WE WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN THE APPELLATE COURT AND THEN HE PRESENTED IT TO THE OTHER EIGHT JUSTICES AND SAID WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THESE TWO CASES UP.

AND WE DID, AND WE WON BOTH OF THEM.

>> Todd: IF THE COURT'S RULING STANDS, THE LEGISLATURE WILL HAVE TO REDRAW THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAP AS INSTRUCTED BY THE COURT.

AND THEY'LL HAVE TO DO IT SOON.

THE PRIMARY ELECTIONS ARE MAY 25 AND QUALIFYING WAS SCHEDULED TO END THIS FRIDAY.

THE COURT HAS ORDERED THAT QUALIFYING DEADLINE TO BE PUSHED BACK TO FEBRUARY 11.

HOUSE DEMOCRATS SAY THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO TAKE UP THE ISSUE AND PASS NEW MAPS RIGHT AWAY.

>> I THINK THE THREE-JUDGE PANEL WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN THEY SAID THAT THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE TWO MAJORITY/MINORITY DISTRICTS.

I THINK THAT WAS VERY CLEAR.

HOWEVER, WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW THE GAME PLAYS OUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF WHETHER THEY TRY TO FIND A LOOPHOLE IN THE ACTUAL THREE-JUDGE PANELS, THE MEMO, OR WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE GOING TO -- ORDER, OR WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THE ORDER.

>> Todd: IF THE RULING STANDS AND THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T REDRAW DISTRICTS AS INSTRUCTED, THE COURT COULD INTERVENE AND REDRAW THE MAP ITSELF WITH THE HELP OF A REDISTRICTING EXPERT.

IN ANY CASE, THE STATE'S CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATION COULD LOOK MUCH DIFFERENT WITH TWO SO-CALLED OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS THAT ARE INTENDED TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF BLACK VOTERS.

THE ALABAMA ACLU, WHICH WAS A PART OF THE LAWSUIT, SAYS BETTER REPRESENTATION FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS IS THE WHOLE POINT.

>> THE DECISION ITSELF IS REALLY FOCUSED ON ENSURING THAT BLACK VOTERS ARE REPRESENTED, RIGHT?

SO THEY MAKE UP 27% AND ONLY 14% OF CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATION IN THE STATE.

SO THE CHANGING, IF YOU WILL, OR THE DRAWING OF THESE TWO DISTRICTS IS REALLY A REPRESENTATION OF THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

AND SO OUTSIDE OF PARTISAN POLITICS, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY HONE IN ON THAT POINT, ENSURING THAT THESE PARTICULAR MAPS THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS MANDATED TO DRAW REPRESENT THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE AND THAT POPULATION GROWTH THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> Todd: THE DUELING DEFAMATION CASES INVOLVING FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE ARE UNDERWAY.

LEIGH CORFMAN ACCUSED MOORE OF MOLESTING HER DECADES AGO WHEN SHE WAS 14 YEARS OLD.

SHE TESTIFIED TUESDAY HE KNOWS IT HAPPENED DESPITE HIS PUBLIC DENIALS.

THE TWO FILED DEFAMATION LAWSUITS AGAINST EACH OTHER IN THE WAKE OF THE SCANDAL THAT ROCKED THE 2017 U.S. SENATE RACE.

MOORE ULTIMATELY LOST THAT RACE TO DOUG JONES, WHO BECAME THE FIRST DEMOCRAT ELECTED TO THE SENATE IN 25 YEARS.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

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>> Todd: JOINING ME NEXT ON THE PROGRAM IS STATE REPRESENTATIVE RANDALL SHEDD OF COLEMAN COUNTY.

MR. SHEDD, THANKS FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Todd: ONE OF THE REASONS I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW IS YOU HAVE BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE BROADBAND ISSUE REALLY SINCE IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE AT THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU SPONSORED A FEW YEARS AGO THE BILL THAT ALLOWS INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS TO PIGGYBACK ON PUBLIC UTILITY LINES, A REALLY BIG DEAL LAST YEAR.

SO I WONDERED IF THE STATE HAS DONE ENOUGH TO REALLY LAY THE GROUNDWORK FOR US TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ALL THIS FEDERAL MONEY THAT'S ABOUT TO GO TO BROADBAND.

>> I THINK WE ARE VERY WELL POSITIONED.

IN FACT, I THINK WE ARE IN A POSITION TO LEAD THE SOUTHEAST IF WE GET ADEQUATE FUNDING FOR BROADBAND.

WE'VE PASSED THE BILLS THAT YOU MENTIONED, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR GETTING IT OUT THERE THAT THE HB 400, WE CALL IT, THE ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES AND THE ELECTRICITY PROVIDERS CAN UTILIZE THEIR FACILITIES FOR BROADBAND IS ONE OF THE MAJOR PARTS THAT PUTS US IN A POSITION TO GET BROADBAND TO EVERYBODY, NOT ONLY FOR THEM THEMSELVES, BUT THEY ARE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH OTHERS TO GET IT TO AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE IT.

THAT AND THEN THIS PAST SESSION WE PASSED SENATE BILL 215, SENATOR MARSH'S BILL AND REPRESENTATIVE GARRETT CARRIED IN THE HOUSE AND WE GOT IT PASSED.

THAT ESTABLISHES THE DIGITAL EXPANSION AUTHORITY, WHICH GIVES US A LOT OF LEEWAY IN BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THE BROADBAND NEEDS GOING FORWARD WITHOUT HAVING TO GO BACK AND FORTH TO THE LEGISLATURE EACH YEAR.

SO THAT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

WE HAD A MEETING IN NASHVILLE WITH THE SOUTHERN LEGISLATIVE CONFERENCE, WITH THE SOUTHERN LEGISLATORS, AND I ATTENDED THE BROADBAND PART OF THAT.

AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY MENTIONED THAT WE NEED TO BE DOING WE FEEL LIKE WE HAD ALREADY DONE THAT.

SO ALABAMA IS WELL POSITIONED FOR US TO UTILIZE THESE FUNDS.

GOOD PLAN, DIGITAL EXPANSION AUTHORITY, WE JUST ADOPTED A PLAN AT OUR LAST MEETING.

SO I THINK WE'RE WELL AHEAD OF MOST STATES, QUITE FRANKLY.

>> Todd: THIS FUNDING BILL IN THE SPECIAL SESSION SETS OUT ABOUT $240 MILLION OF THAT FOR BROADBAND.

IS THAT ENOUGH?

SOME SAY IT'S JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE, BUT THAT ALSO SEEMS LIKE A HECK OF A LOT OF MONEY.

>> NO, IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'LL BE VERY VOCAL ABOUT GOING IN FOR THE NEXT ROUND THAT'S COMING.

THERE IS A BILLION, SIXTY MILLION COMING DOWN TO THE STATE NOT JUST FOR BROADBAND BUT THE STATE TO UTILIZE AND WE'LL MOST LIKELY HAVE ANOTHER SPECIAL SESSION, IF I HAD TO GUESS, AND THAT'S PURE SPECULATION.

BUT THE COST TO SERVE THE ENTIRE STATE IS BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX BILLION DOLLARS.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE THE INTERNET PROVIDERS THEMSELVES THAT ARE PUTTING MONEY INTO GETTING BROADBAND OUT THERE, BUT THE REAL CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS THAT WE GET BROADBAND TO RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE AND AREAS THAT HAVE SLOW INTERNET, NOT REAL GOOD INTERNET, THAT WE GET TRUE HIGH SPEED INTERNET WITH FIBER OUT TO ALL THE AREAS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

THE REASON I'M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT IT, I JUST THINK IT IS A TRUE GAME CHANGER IN THIS STATE, PARTICULARLY IN RURAL ALABAMA, WHERE WE ARE SEEING SOME DECLINE IN POPULATION AND IT WILL PROVIDE RURAL ALABAMA AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP AND GROW.

>> Todd: YOU MENTIONED RURAL ALABAMA.

SO MUCH HAS TO HAPPEN BETWEEN YOU-ALL PASSING THIS FUNDING BILL AND THE INTERNET ACTUALLY TURNING ON IN BLOUNT COUNTY THAT YOU REPRESENT.

CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THAT PROCESS?

WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN?

WHAT IS THE TIMELINE OF EVENTS BETWEEN PASSING LEGISLATION AND ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING THE GOAL?

>> I MADE A LIST THIS WEEK OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED.

I'M SURE I MISSED A LOT OF PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS AND GROUPS THAT WERE IMPORTANT IN GETTING US WHERE WE ARE TODAY IN BROADBAND.

FROM SPEAKER McCUTCHEON SET UP OUR COMMITTEE, HOUSE URBAN RULE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE IN 2017 AND ASSIGNED US TO WORK ON BROADBAND.

SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT SINCE 2017.

WE PASSED THE FIRST GRANT BILL, SENATOR SCOFIELD HAD, HE'S BEEN A TRUE CHAMPION OF BROADBAND.

AND THEN WE PASSED OTHER APPROPRIATION BILLS FOR BROADBAND.

WE SET UP HB 400 FOR THE ELECTRICITY PROVIDERS, AND NOW THEN THE 215, THE PLAN AND ADECA HAS HAD OPPORTUNITY WITH THE GRANTS TO HAVE SORT OF PRACTICE RUNS, IF YOU WILL, THAT PROVIDES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW HOW TO GET THIS MONEY OUT SUCCESSFULLY AND EFFICIENTLY TO THE AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET AT THIS TIME.

SO IT IS A TREMENDOUS UNDERTAKING TO GET IT THERE TO WHERE, AS YOU SAY, IT IS AVAILABLE TO SWITCH ON.

>> Todd: AND YET THERE IS A COMPLICATING FACTOR AT PLAY, AND THAT IS, ACCORDING TO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION, THE CONSTITUTION ESSENTIALLY PROHIBITS CITIES AND COUNTIES, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS FROM GIVING A THING OF VALUE TO COMPANIES.

>> RIGHT.

>> Todd: AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE TRYING TO GET SOME OF THESE GRANTS FOR BROADBAND.

>> RIGHT.

>> Todd: I KNOW YOU HAVE LEGISLATION TO ADDRESS THAT.

CAN YOU KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS?

>> WELL, CERTAINLY, AND I REMEMBER THAT FROM MY DAYS AS CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNTY COMMISSION IN THE '70s AND '80s.

WE HAD ISSUES LIKE THAT, PARTICULARLY IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

THAT WAS ADDRESSED.

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS PASSED BEFORE THE COUNTIES FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

BUT THIS PARTICULAR LEGISLATION THAT THE PEOPLE WOULD BE VOTING ON IS SPECIFIC TO BROADBAND, NOTHING ELSE.

JUST SPECIFIC TO BROADBAND SO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE GRANTS LIKE WE DO AT THE STATE LEVEL IN THEIR AREAS TO GET BROADBAND OUT THERE.

AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S VERY MUCH NEEDED BECAUSE THEY HAVE, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, ABOUT A BILLION DOLLARS TO COUNTIES THEMSELVES FROM THE FEDERAL FUNDS, THE ARPA FUNDS.

AND MY DAYS AS CHAIRMAN OF OUR COUNTY COMMISSION, IF I WAS THERE NOW, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN BROADBAND, GETTING IT OUT FROM AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT AS WELL.

>> Todd: WELL, I'M CORRECT THAT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWING THIS IN THE SPECIAL SESSION?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT WAS NOT IN THE CALL, AND THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE THAT WE STICK WITH WHAT WAS IN THE CALL.

IT'S KIND OF UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE IF WE COULD GET IT PASSED IN THE SPECIAL SESSION, IT COULD BE VOTED ON IN THE MAY PRIMARIES.

NOW THEN -- I THINK THERE'S NO QUESTION WE'LL PASS IT IN THE REGULAR SESSION AND PROBABLY GET IT ON THE FAST TRACK TO GET IT PASSED, BUT IT STILL WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE TO THE VOTERS UNTIL NOVEMBER.

SO THERE IS A PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN MAY AND NOVEMBER THAT THE COUNTIES CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THAT.

I HOPE THEY'LL SAVE THEIR MONEY AND WAIT FOR BROADBAND OPPORTUNITIES TO GET OUT THERE.

THERE'S A BIG THING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS CALLED THE MIDDLE MILE PROJECT, BUT THERE IS A TREMENDOUS NETWORK OF HIGH-SPEED FIBER OUT THERE IN PLACES ACROSS THE STATE.

AND WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO IS UTILIZE SOME OF THESE FUNDS TO CONNECT ALL OF THOSE KIND OF MAKES A CIRCLE AROUND THE STATE.

THE BIG DEAL ABOUT THAT IS, IT WOULD PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR AREAS ALL THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE STATE TO CONNECT TO THAT SORT OF DISTRIBUTION FIBER THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

SO THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH AND CONNECTING WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE WITH THE GAPS THAT'S IN IT WILL SPEED UP, MAKE IT AVAILABLE MORE QUICKLY TO ALL OF THE STATE.

>> Todd: WELL, WE'LL CERTAINLY BE PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT.

BROADBAND IS A BIG ISSUE AND YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE CENTER OF IT.

MR. SHEDD, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE.

>> Todd: WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> AS THE LONGTIME COACH OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE, COACH PAUL BRYANT LED THE TEAM TO SIX NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, 24 BOWL GAMES, 13 CONFERENCE TITLES AND 3 UNDEFEATED SEASONS.

HE IS WIDELY CONSIDERED THE GREATEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACH OF ALL TIME.

HELLO.

I'M JOHN CROYLE, DEFENSIVE END ON THE 1973 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM THAT WENT 11-0 REGULAR SEASON.

IN HIS 25 YEARS AT ALABAMA, COACH BRYANT'S TEAMS COMPILED 232 WINS, 46 LOSSES, AND PARTICIPATED IN 24 CONSECUTIVE BALL GAMES.

HE WAS NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR THREE TIMES.

HIS PLAYERS RECEIVED 67 ALL-AMERICAN HONORS AND NUMEROUS PLAYERS WENT ON TO DISTINGUISHED NFL CAREERS.

COACH BRYANT REMAINS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE ALABAMA FOOTBALL TRADITION.

HE ESTABLISHED A SCHOLARSHIP FUND FOR THE CHILDREN OF FORMER PLAYERS TO ATTEND THE UNIVERSITY.

AND TO THIS DAY, TIDE FANS WEAR HOUNDSTOOTH IN HIS MEMORY.

>> Todd: JOINING ME NEXT ON THE PROGRAM IS JATAUNE BOSBY FROM THE ALABAMA ACLU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> Todd: THE REASON I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON IS THE ACLU WAS A PLAINTIFF IN THIS MONUMENTAL REDISTRICTING CASE, THE RULING OUT YESTERDAY.

AND IT WAS YOUR ARGUMENT ON BEHALF OF MR. MILLIGAN THAT THE JUDGES ULTIMATELY TOOK UP AND RULED ON.

SO I WAS HOPING YOU COULD WALK OUR VIEWERS THROUGH THAT ARGUMENT.

WHY WAS THE SUIT BROUGHT?

>> SO THIS SUIT WAS BROUGHT REALLY AS A FOLLOW-UP TO THE CENSUS PROCESS.

IN SEPTEMBER OF 2021, CENSUS DATA WAS RELEASED, AND THAT SHOWED THE GROWTH OF THE STATE, PARTICULARLY IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

SO WE SAW NEARLY A QUARTER MILLION PEOPLE INCREASE IN POPULATION IN THE STATE AND IN THAT PROCESS, THE FOLLOW-UP IS A REAPPORTIONMENT PROCESS WHICH THE STATE GOES THROUGH.

REDRAWING OF THE MAPS.

AND THAT WAS TAKEN UP BY THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN THE FALL.

IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING, ESPECIALLY FROM THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS AND SEVERAL OTHERS, THAT OUR STATE IS UNFAIRLY GERRYMANDERED, AND THAT WAS VERY, VERY CLEAR AS THE STATE LEGISLATURE PREPARED TO REDRAW THE MAPS.

SO WE HAD PUBLIC HEARINGS ACROSS THE STATE, AND IT WAS CLEAR THAT ALABAMIANS UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS STATE HAD BEEN UNFAIRLY GERRYMANDERED, MEANING THAT CERTAIN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, PARTICULARLY BLACK COMMUNITIES, ARE UNFAIRLY PACKED IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS OR THEY ARE FRACTURED, MEANING THAT WE ARE DILUTING THEIR VOTING POWER.

AND WHAT THIS REDISTRICTING CASE WANTED TO FOCUS ON WAS ENSURING THAT WE ARE CREATING FAIR AND JUST MAPS AND GIVING PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY ALABAMA VOTERS THE OPPORTUNITY, IF YOU WILL, TO WELL REPRESENT OR TO VOTE FOR CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATES THAT REPRESENT THEIR INTERESTS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS LITIGATION DOES.

>> Todd: I THINK IN TODAY'S WORLD, MOST PEOPLE WOULD KIND OF ASSUME THAT A PANEL FULL OF JUDGES THAT WERE APPOINTED BY REPUBLICANS, IN THIS CASE REAGAN AND TRUMP, WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO RULE AGAINST REPUBLICAN-DRAWN DISTRICTS.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT?

>> I THINK THAT THE JUDGMENT BY THE PANEL IS EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY THERE'S AN ISSUE IN ALABAMA.

SO WHETHER I AGREE OR NOT, WE BROUGHT THE CASE, BUT I THINK IT'S EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE CHALLENGES HERE.

SO WE HAVE NOT SEEN SIGNIFICANT REDISTRICTING LITIGATION FOR OVER 30 YEARS.

SO THAT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR CHANGE TO REPRESENT HOW THIS STATE LOOKS NOW.

>> Todd: THE 7th DISTRICT, THE DISTRICT IN QUESTION, WAS CREATED BACK IN THE 1990s BY THE DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE AND ESSENTIALLY TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE MEMBER OF THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION WHO WAS BLACK.

SO SINCE THEN, I MEAN, THE DISTRICT HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT THEN VERSUS NOW, IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME GEOGRAPHICALLY.

I KNOW THEY'VE HAD TO PICK UP SOME POPULATION.

BUT WHAT MAKES -- WHY WAS IT OKAY 30 YEARS AGO BUT NOT OKAY NOW?

>> SO I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IT'S NOT OKAY NOW.

I THINK THEN THE LITIGATION WAS REALLY FOCUSED ON COMPLYING WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THE VRA AT THE TIME.

NOW WE ARE SEEING INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE -- THAT INCLUDES A LOT OF THE BLACK BELT.

WE ARE SEEING INDIVIDUALS NOW MIGRATE, IF YOU WILL, TO OTHER AREAS IN THE STATE.

AND SO THAT CONCENTRATION IS, IF YOU WILL, SPREADING OUT IN THE STATE IN A VERY DIFFERENT WAY.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT OUR MAPS NOW REPRESENT WHAT THAT CHANGE LOOKS LIKE.

AND SO I DON'T THINK IT IS WRONG OR NOT STILL RELEVANT.

I THINK IT IS NOW ENSURING THAT WE ARE DOVETAILING AND THAT WE ARE ENSURING THAT VOTERS HAVE THE NECESSARY ACCESS BASED ON WHERE THEY LIVE NOW.

>> Todd: UM-HUM.

AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF FOLKS ALSO WHO SAY IF THESE OPPORTUNITY DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN, AS THE COURT HAS ORDERED, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE MODERATE, NOT NECESSARILY GUARANTEED WINS FOR DEMOCRATS.

SO THERE'S ALWAYS THE POSSIBILITY, THE RISK, IF YOU WILL, THAT REPUBLICANS COULD COME AND WIN THESE SEATS.

AND THEN IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, THE STATE WOULD BE LOSING ITS LONE BLACK DEMOCRAT AND POSSIBLY PICKING UP TWO REPUBLICANS.

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THAT PERHAPS AS AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF THIS?

>> I THINK WHAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALLY GET AT HERE IS THAT THE DECISION ITSELF IS REALLY FOCUSED ON ENSURING THAT BLACK VOTERS ARE REPRESENTED, RIGHT?

SO THEY MAKE UP 27% AND ONLY 14% OF CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATION IN THE STATE.

SO THE CHANGING, IF YOU WILL, OR THE DRAWING OF THESE TWO DISTRICTS IS REALLY A REPRESENTATION OF THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE.

SO OUTSIDE OF PARTISAN POLITICS, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY HONE IN ON THAT POINT, ENSURING THAT THESE PARTICULAR MAPS THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS MANDATED TO DRAW REPRESENT THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE AND THAT POPULATION GROWTH THAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> Todd: YEAH, IT WAS JUST IN THIS BUILDING, POLITICS KIND OF INTERTWINES WITH EVERYTHING.

SO THERE WOULD BE SOME DISAPPOINTED FOLKS IF WE LOST THE ONE LONE BLACK DEMOCRAT IN CONGRESS.

LET ME TALK ABOUT PRISONS WHILE I HAVE YOU, BECAUSE I KNOW THE ACLU HAS BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE PRISON ISSUE LAWSUITS, PUBLIC PRESSURE ON THE STATE, ON ALL THE MYRIAD ISSUES THAT PRISON INVOLVE.

YOU-ALL WERE PRETTY PUBLICLY AGAINST THE PRISON CONSTRUCTION PLAN THAT PASSED THE LEGISLATURE LAST YEAR.

LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT ROLE DO NEW FACILITIES PLAY IN AN OVERALL SOLUTION?

THE ARGUMENT WAS WE CAN'T BUILD OUR WAY OUT OF THESE PROBLEMS.

ARE FACILITIES, NEWER FACILITIES A PART OF THAT AT SOME LEVEL?

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NAME THAT NEW PROBLEMS DON'T CHANGE THE PROBLEMS WITHIN THE PRISONS.

IT IS NOT THE FACILITIES.

IT IS THE OVER-INCARCERATION OF INDIVIDUALS.

OUR UNWILLINGNESS TO REALLY FOCUS ON SENTENCING REFORM TO DECARCERATE A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS OF SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED IN PRISON AND WHO ARE SUBJECTED TO THE CRISIS WE SEE IN ADOC.

WE ARE STILL ADAMANTLY AGAINST PROBLEMS.

THAT'S NOT JUST THE ACLU'S POSITION, THAT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S POSITION.

THEY HAVE ALSO LET THE STATE KNOW THAT PRISONS, BUILDING NEW PRISONS ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE ISSUES IN OUR DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO HONE IN ON HERE.

>> Todd: I GUESS WHAT DOC WOULD SAY IS, WELL, WE'RE HAVING A REALLY HARD TIME HIRING CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, AND THAT'S BEEN MANDATED BY THE COURT, BECAUSE OF THESE DILAPIDATED FACILITIES.

THEY FEEL UNSAFE.

IT'S A REALLY HAZARDOUS JOB AND THE NEW FACILITIES WILL HELP THEM HIRE MORE PERSONNEL AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT ARGUMENT?

>> I SAY THAT IT'S IMPORTANT AND I DON'T WANT TO MINIMIZE THE FACT THAT THOSE JOBS ARE DIFFICULT, RIGHT?

AND THOSE CHALLENGES MAY BE VERY REAL, BUT THAT DOESN'T DIMINISH THE FACT THAT IF WE ACTUALLY FOCUS ON DECARCERATING AND FOCUSING ON ENSURING THAT WE ARE PROVIDING PEOPLE A SECOND CHANCE BY WAY OF PAROLING THEM, THEN WE GET TO SOME OF THE ISSUES IN ADDRESSING OVERCROWDED PRISONS AND THE STRESS THAT THAT WOULD PUT ON PERSONNEL.

SO I THINK THAT IS A CRITICAL POINT.

THE FACILITIES REALLY ARE A SYMPTOM OF A REAL CORE PROBLEM.

WHILE IT'S UNFORTUNATE, I REALLY WOULD LIKE THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND ADOC TO TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE CORE ISSUE OF OVERALL CRIMINAL LEGAL REFORM AS IT RELATES TO OUR PRISONS.

>> Todd: I WAS TALKING WITH BOBBY SINGLETON, SENATOR BOBBY SINGLETON ON LAST WEEK'S SHOW, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT PRISONS.

HE WAS PRETTY ADAMANT THAT HE BELIEVES THE STATE SHOULD SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE A FEDERAL TAKEOVER BY THE COURTS, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON THAT?

IS IT ACLU, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE SEEKING, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO COME AND TAKE OVER AND SOLVE THIS PROBLEM FOR US?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY, THE ACLU HASN'T FILED LITIGATION PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO THE PRISON CRISIS.

WE'VE REALLY GONE ABOUT THIS BY WAY OF LEGISLATIVE ADVOCACY AVENUES.

BUT, QUITE HONESTLY, THAT IS OUT OF OUR HANDS.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS COME IN AND SPECIFIED ISSUES AS IT RELATES TO ALABAMA PRISONS FOR DECADES NOW, SO THIS ISN'T NEW.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, OUR FOCUS IS LEGISLATIVE ADVOCACY AVENUE AND ENSURING THAT LEGISLATORS REALLY TAKE UP, IF YOU WILL, THE CHARGE OF LOOKING AT REFORM HOLISTICALLY AS IT RELATES TO THE PRISON CRISIS.

>> Todd: WELL, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN AND SHARING SOME OF YOUR ADVOCACY WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> Todd: WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

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>> Todd: AND THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US TOMORROW FOR CONTINUED COVERAGE OF THE LEGISLATURE RIGHT HERE ON APT.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.