>> Reilly: TONIGHT ON "TALKING POLITICS," WE'RE TAKING ON THE POLITICS OF COVID ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS.

THE LATEST SURGE HAS RIPPED WIDE-OPEN OLD WOUNDS AND DIVIDES BETWEEN POLITICAL LEADERS AND THE PEOPLE.

IN SCHOOLS, BUSINESSES, AND WITH THE PUBLIC AT LARGE, AS THE BATTLE OVER SAFETY VERSUS PERSONAL FREEDOMS ONCE AGAIN COMES TO A HEAD.

FOR THE SECOND TIME IN AS MANY MONTHS, STATE LEGISLATORS ARE CALLING ON GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER TO APPEAR BEFORE THEIR JOINT COMMITTEE ON COVID-19 AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, TO TALK ABOUT HOW HE'S DEALING WITH THE PANDEMIC CHALLENGES WE'RE FACING NOW, AND THOSE STILL TO COME.

OF COURSE, WITH COMPLAINTS ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND HOME TESTS, HOURS-LONG WAITS FOR P.C.R.

SWABS, AND CHAOS SURROUNDING SCHOOL TESTING ISSUES, MASK CONCERNS, MAJOR STAFFING SHORTAGES-- NOT TO MENTION CONCERNED PARENTS-- THERE'S FINGER-POINTING APLENTY.

BUT WHERE DOES THE BUCK STOP WITH EACH OF THESE ISSUES?

AND WHO SHOULD BE STEPPING UP WHERE?

I'M JOINED BY GBH NEWS POLITICS EDITOR PETER KADZIS; JAMES "JIMMY" HILLS, HOST OF "JAVA WITH JIMMY," YOUR COMMUNITY DRIVEN PLATFORM; AND STATE SENATOR REBECCA RAUSCH, WHO REPRESENTS THE NORFOLK, BRISTOL AND MIDDLESEX DISTRICTS OF MASSACHUSETTS.

THANK YOU ALL NOR BEING HERE.

-- FOR BEING HERE.

REBECCA RAUSCH, LET ME START WITH YOU, YOU'VE BEEN CRITICAL FOR A WHILE, WITH THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION'S HANDLING OF POLITICS.

THE CHOICES HE'S MADE, AS WE HEADED INTO THE WINTER HOLIDAYS AND THEN CAME OUT MUCH THEM.

>> THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION HAS REALLY MISSED THE BOAT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY GOING BACK TO THE MARCH TWRI 20 DECISIONS AS TO WHETHER TO CLOSE THE SCHOOLS AT THE OUTSET OF THIS PANDEMIC.

AS YOU HAVE SEEN AND JUST RECALLED MOMENTS AGO WE HAVE SEEN HOURS LONG WAITS IF PEOPLE CAN ACCESS TESTING AT ALL.

WE HAVE SEEN COUNTERFEIT MASKS THAT WERE RECALLED IN CANADA, REDISTRIBUTED TO THE TEACHERS WHO WERE SUPPOSED TO SHOW UP FOR IN-PERSON SCHOOLING EVERY SINGLE DAY WHICH OF COURSE THEY CAN'T, WE HAVE SEEN SCHOOL AND DAYCARE DISRUPTIONS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE WINTER HOLIDAY SEASON.

WE ARE MISSING VACCINATIONS IN COMMUNITIES, VACCINATION RATES FOR CHILDREN.

WE ARE SEEING A COMPLETE AND TOTAL LACK OF EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EFFORTS SPECIFICALLY FOR PARENTS SO WE CAN HELP GET OUR YOUTH VACCINATED WHICH WE ALL KNOW IS OUR BEST AND STRONGEST MEASURE TO PROTECT AGAINST THE SPREAD OF COVID-19.

AND PERHAPS, MOST BLAIT -- BLAIT AND -- BLATANTLY, WE HAVE SEEN THE GOVERNOR REJECT FROM EXPERT AFTER EXPERT WITH REGARD TO INDOOR MASKING DURING THIS BIGGEST SURGE TO DATE WHERE WE HAVE SURPASSED A MILLION COVID CASES WHERE WE HAVE SEEN CASE COUNTS ON A DAILY BASIS, RECORD-BREAKING, MULTIPLE TIMES OVER DUE TO THE OMICRON VARIANT AND WHILE WE KNOW THAT OMICRON MAY FIZZLE OUT, BURN ITSELF OUT, HOPEFULLY SOON, THERE WILL BE ANOTHER VARIANT AND ANOTHER VARIANT THAT COMES AFTER THAT.

THIS ISN'T JUST A QUESTION OF BAKER ANSWER PERFORMANCE.

IT IS A QUESTION OF KEEPING OUR ECONOMY AFLOAT AND A FACT OF LIFE OR DEATH FOR BAY STATERS AND THE GOVERNOR IS ALMOST WHOLLY BSENT.

>> HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

YOU MENTIONED TEACHERS BEING FRUSTRATED.

I WANT TO ROLL A LITTLE FROM MARY NAJIMI REFERENCING SOMETHING YOU JUST REFERENCED A MOMENT AGO.

>> CLEARLY, THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION HAS SHOWN THEY'RE NOT CAPABLE OF MANAGING THIS SITUATION.

SO WE NEED AN AGENCY, A STATE AGENCY OTHER THAN THEM, TO TAKE OVER THE COVID-19 TESTING AND DISTRIBUTION OF P.P.E.

AND WE NEED AN IMMEDIATE INVESTIGATION INTO THESE FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT MASK SAFETY, BECAUSE IT PUTS ALL OF OUR SCHOOL COMMUNITIES AND OUR ENTIRE COMMONWEALTH IN JEOPARDY.

>> Reilly: REBECCA RAUSCH IS THERE AN APPETITE AMONG YOUR COLLEAGUES IN THE LEGISLATURE TO FOLLOW THE CALL THAT MARY NAJIMI IS MAKING THERE?

>> I CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATION AFTER CONVERSATION WITH COLLEAGUES WHEN THE INEQUATECIES OF THE BAKER-M ABOUT THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC AND THIS MOST RECENT SURGE.

THE PURPOSE OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS IN FACT TO EXECUTE.

IT'S RIGHT THERE, IN ITS NAME.

AND WE HAVE IN FACT THE COVID-19 COMMITTEE, HAS YET AGAIN ASKED THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION TO SHOW UP WHERE THEY FAILED TO DO SO THE LAST TIME AROUND.

I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN QUITE A WHILE IN FACT SINCE THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF SHOWED UP TO A LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT HEARING AND WE CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM CONSTITUENTS ALL ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH SAYING WHERE HE IS HE, WHERE IS THE MEASURES WE CLEARLY NEED, WHERE SS SCIRNLTCY SO WE DON'T HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON FROM ONE TOWN TO THE NEXT FROM ONE COUNTY TO THE NEXT, TO ONE SCHOOL TO THE NEXT.

>> Reilly: I'LL TAKE THAT AS A MAYBE.

PETER AND JIMMY, PETER STARTING WITH YOU.

ONE OF THE HALLMARKS OF THE GOVERNOR'S POSITION IS AN INSISTENCE THAT IN PERSON LEARNING IS NECESSARY, HE MADE THAT POINT IN A PRESS CONFERENCE IN SALEM EARLY THIS WEEK.

LET'S WATCH.

>> THE RULES HERE ARE SIMPLE.

WE COUNT IN-PERSON SCHOOL AS SCHOOL.

IF A SCHOOL DISTRICT IS NOT OPEN AT SOME POINT OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, THEY CAN USE SNOW DAYS UNTIL THEY RUN OUT OF SNOW DAYS.

BUT THEY DO NEED TO PROVIDE THEIR KIDS WITH 180 DAYS OF IN-PERSON EDUCATION THIS YEAR.

>> Reilly: PETER KADZIS, THE STATE HAS IT SEEMS BEEN SET BEING RECORDS ON ALMOST A DAILY BASIS.

THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM STRAINED TO THE BREAKING POINT.

MIGHT IT HAVE BEEN EPIDEMIOLOGICALLY PRUDENTLY FOR THE GOVERNOR TO SAY ALL RIGHT, WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF OUR SHARPEST SURGE YET, IT'S OKAY FOR SCHOOLS TO TAKE SAY THE WEEK AROUND OR THE WEEK AFTER NEW YEAR'S OFFICE, MAYBE A COUPLE WEEKS OFF.

WE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBLE HERE IN ORDER TO STEM THE FLOW OF THE VIRUS, WOULD THAT HAVE MADE SENSE?

>> IT MIGHT HAVE.

I'M NOT SAYING IT WOULDN'T HAVE.

BUT THE STATE JUST RELEASED THE MOST RECENT NUMBERS, IT'S 4.5% OF ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS HAVE COME DOWN WITH COVID AND 8.75% OF TEACHERS AND STAFF.

NOW, OF ALL THE PEOPLE, IF YOU ARE VACCINATED, ONLY 3.5% OF THE PEOPLE END UP IN HOSPITALS OR DEAD.

THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK, THOUGH, WITH THE LARGER POLITICAL SITUATION.

HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, YOU'D THINK BAKER IS TOTALLY ISOLATED.

IF YOU GO ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THESE BATTLES ARE BEING WAGED STATE BY STATE.

I FIND CHICAGO PARTICULARLY INTERESTING.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE LAURIE LIGHTFOOT AN EXTREMELY PROGRESSIVE MAYOR WHO IS AN EVEN MORE INTENSE ODDS WITH THE CHICAGO TEACHERS UNIONS WHO WANT WHAT THE LOCAL TEACHERS UNIONS WANT.

YOU KNOW, THIS REFLECTS A LARGER DIVISION, POLITICAL DIVISION IN THE COUNTRY.

AND THAT'S THOSE LIKE THE TEACHERS UNIONS WHO WANT US TO MAINTAIN THE EMERGENCY STANDING.

AND THOSE LIKE, SAY, BAKER AND LAURIE LIGHTFOOT WHO ARE IN EFFECT THROUGH THEIR POLICIES HAVE TO SAY WE HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO LIVE ABOUT-WITH COVID.

COVID IS GOING TO BE WITH US FOR A WHOIM.

I KNOW I'M DODGING YOUR QUESTION A BIT HERE BUT THAT'S THE BIGGER ARGUMENT.

IF I SO JUST ANSWER BRIEFLY, VERY BRIEFLY, THE STATE SENATOR'S POINT, IF THE HOUSE SPEAKER WANTED TOABLY IT TO A -- TO BRING IT TO A VOTE, MANDATING MASKS ALL ACROSS THE STATE, IT WOULD HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW IT'S PURE AND SIMPLE.

I SEE SORT OF A FALSE DICHOTOMY HERE.

I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE CRITICIZING BAKER BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH HIM.

THAT'S THEIR RIGHT.

BUT THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER TO MANDATE THIS.

THEY'RE NOT DOING IT FOR A REASON.

>> Reilly: YOU STOLE MY BIG FINISH THAT I WANTED TO COME BACK TO WITH SENATOR RAUSCH.

>> SORRY.

>> Reilly: TOTALLY FINE.

EVERYONE WHO JUST SAW THAT TOTALLY FORGET WHAT PETER KADZIS SAID.

NOW WE GOT TO HOP TO JIMMY HILLS.

JIMMY, THE GOVERNOR AND BOSTON MAYOR MICHELLE WU HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN A CIVIL BUT POINTED BACK AND FORTH OVER THE COURSE OF THE WEEK WITH THE GROARCHL CRITIQUING SOME THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN BOSTON AND THE MAYOR RESPONDING.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT ONE EXCHANGE, THIS INVOLVED THE GOVERNOR SAYING, THAT BOSTON MAY BE PARTIALLY TO BLAME INVOLVING ANY STOFG WOES, BECAUSE THEY TURNED DOWN AN OFFER TO HELP THE SCHOOL BUSES AND THE GOVERNOR SAYING, GOVERNMENT HASN'T LET'S LOOK.

>> >> BOSTON, BY THE WAY, TURNED DOWN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE WITH THE NATIONAL GUARD ON THAT PROGRAM.

>> IT WAS SIMPLY NOT AN OFFER WE COULD BENEFIT FROM AT ALL, AND REALLY TAKE UP ON.

>> Reilly: JIMMY HILLS, WHAT IS THAT EXCHANGE?

THIS BIGGER BACK AND FORTH THAT'S BEEN GOING ON ALL WEEK, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOVERNOR BAKER AND MAYOR WU AT THIS POINT IN TIME?

>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DYNAMICS THERE FIRST OF ALL, ADAM WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR THIS FIRST OPPORTUNITY OPARTICIPATE HERE ON TALKING POLITICS.

>> Reilly: VERY GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

>> TO YOUR QUESTION, I'LL JOWMPLE THE MY POINT TO WHERE IT IS THE MUNICIPALITY, SIMILAR TO PETER'S POINT JUST ON A TIER-UNDER LEVEL, THE MUNICIPALITIES NEED TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO MAKE THE DECISIONS ON WHERE THEY WILL PUT THE NATIONAL GUARD AND IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT AS THE MAYOR SAID WAS NOT ADDITIONAL E-BENEFICIAL, THAT IS NOT -- AND THE GOVERNOR ASSIGNING WHAT THE DUTIES ARE TO A MUNICIPALITY, I DON'T KNOW IS AS HELPFUL AS THE MUNICIPALITY'S NEED.

AS FAR AS TO THE DYNAMICS OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP, I THINK ON ONE POINT, THE GOVERNOR, TO A SENSE, DOESN'T CARE.

HE'S NOT RUNNING.

AND TO THE MAYOR'S POIRNT, I DON'T THINK SHE CARES TO A POINT WHERE HER CONCENTRATION RIGHT NOW IS STOPPING THE SPREAD AND MAKING VACCINATIONS AVAILABLE TO THE CITY OF BOSTON RESIDENTS, AS WELL AS TRYING TO ALSO HANDLE WHAT'S COMING INTO PLAY FROM SOME INFLUENCE FROM THE STATE.

THE IMPACT HERE IN BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AND SO THE RELATIONSHIP FOR ME IS SECONDARY, THE RELATIONSHIP GOING ON RIGHT NOW BETWEEN THE VARIANT AND THE RESIDENTS OF MASSACHUSETTS AND WHATEVER YOUR POSITION, THE PRIORITY NEEDS TO BE ERADICATING THIS SPREAD.

>> Reilly: VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT WHY THE RELATIONSHIP ISSUE MIGHT NOT BE AS KEY AS I SUGGESTED IT COULD BE.

WE SHOULD MENTION, WHEN WE ROLLED THAT BITE, THE GOVERNOR SAID THE MAYOR'S RESPONSE WHICH WE DIDN'T SEE IN FULL WAS, THAT WAS FOR SIX PASSENGER VANS WHICH WE JUST DON'T USE IN BOSTON, THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HELPED US.

>> SLUM.

>> Reilly: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER POINT OF FRICTION THAT MAYOR WU IS ENCOUNTERING.

THIS INVOLVING BOSTON FIRST RESPONDERS YOU A NIGHTED, UNITED, IT USED TO BE UNDER ACTING MAYOR JANEEY, YOU HAD TO BE VACCINATED OR YOU COULDN'T COME TO WORK.

THAT'S ABOUT TO CHANGE UNDER A NEW POLICY SOME BOSTON FIRST RESPONDERS UNITED IS NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

WHEN MAYOR WU INAUGURATED THE CITY COUNCIL THIS WEEK.

>> SHAME ON WU!

SHAME ON WU!

SHAME ON WU!

>> Reilly: AND IF YOU WERE UP AT THE INAUGURATION A FLIGHT ABOVE, IT WAS AUDIBLE ENOUGH AS THE MAYOR SPOKE, SHE WAS NOT DROWN OUT BUT SHE HAD TO COMPETE WITH THEM.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS YOU SIZE UP THESE PROTESTS?

>> I'M GOING TO BE VERY BLUNT WITH YOU ADAM.

AS I SAID BEFORE, THE MAYOR IS MAKING DECISIONS THAT WILL DO THEIR BEST TO ERADICATE THE SPREAD.

I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT YOU KNOW THE MANDATE IS AN OUTLET, THERE'S AN UNDERCURRENT FROM SOME OF THE TONE OF THE PROTESTORS.

I'VE SEEN A LOT OF CHATTER ONLINE THAT THEY CALL THEMSELVES THE AUSTIN OF WHAT, FIRST LINE RESPONDERS?

>> Reilly: BOSTON FIRST LINE RESPONDERS UNITED.

>> ARE THERE SOME BOSTONIANS TAT ARE A PART OF IT, PROBABLY, BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THIS IS AN OUTLET THAT THESE -- THE SENTIMENT AND THE CADENCE OF THE PROTEST JUST MAKES ME WONDER IF MARTY WALSH, THE TOMMENINO WOULD EXPERIENCE THIS IF THIS WAS KIM JANEY AND SHETS AWAY SUCCESSFUL, WOULD THEY HAVE THE SAME CADENCE?

PROBABLY, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE CADENCE AND THE SIGNAGE, THAT MAKES ME WONDER, IS IT RACE, AND THAT DEM GLASK THAT IS WELL REPRESENTATIVED THERE ADAM IS USING THE MANDATE AS ANOUT LET BUT I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENT UNDERCURRENT.

>> Reilly: I SHOULD KNOW -- GO AHEAD SENATOR RAUSCH.

>> I WANT TO JUMP IN ON JIMMY'S COMMENTS.

I TOO HAVE BEEN A TARGET OF ANTIVAXXER PROTESTS TOO.

THE LEGISLATION IN THE STATE BACK IN 2019 BEFORE COVID-19 HIT, BEFORE PPE BECAME A HOUSEHOLD TERM AND THE MISOGYNY, THE SEXISM, THE ANTISEMITISM THAT HAS RUN AS AN UNDERCURRENT.

IN FACT WE ARE SEEING IT RUN JUST IN THE NEWS IN NORTHHAMPTON AND EVERY CORNER OF THIS COMMONWEALTH AND I HAVE SEEN IT PERSONALLY IN PERSONAL SPACES, INCLUDING PEOPLE CALLING ME THIRD REICH RAUSCH AS THE GRANDDAUGHTER OF HOLE CAWFORT SURVIVORS.

-- HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS.

IN ANTISEMITISM IN RACISM IS INTENTIONALLY WILLFULLY IGNORANT GROUND.

>> Reilly: PETER KADZIS I THINK I SAW YOU RAISING A FINGER.

>> YES, I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SENATOR IS 100% RIGHT.

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS, IN PART, YOU KNOW, THE DREGS -- THE DREGS OF THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS USING RACE AND GENDER TO FURTHER THEIR ENDS.

BUT THE END GOES BEYOND COVID.

THIS HAS TO DO WITH PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS WANTING, DEMANDING THE RIGHT, TO CONTROL THEIR WORK SPACE.

AS OPPOSED TO PUBLIC OFFICIALS DOING IT.

AND I THINK THAT WHILE THE TEACHERS ARE DOING THE SAME THING MINUS THE RACISM AND THE MISOGYNY, THAT THE POLICE AND FIRE WORKERS ARE USING RACE AND MISOGYNY TO TRY MAINTAIN THEIR CONTROL OVER THEIR WORK SPACE.

IT'S UNACCEPTABLE.

>> Reilly: WE SHOULD MENTION WE MAY HAVE VIEWERS SAYING WAIT A MINUTE, I'M A FIREFIGHTER, I'M A POLICE OFFICER, I SHOWED UP AT THE PROTEST AND I WASN'T CARRYING, I WAS THERE I SAW SOME OF THE SIGNS THAT YOU WERE MENTIONING.

JIMMY, I'VE SEEN OTHER SIENTS DEPLOYED AGAINST MAYOR WU WHICH ARE EXTREMELY UGLY BUT WE MAY HAVE SOME PEOPLE WATCHING SAYING WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS JUST ABOUT YOU KNOW ME NOT WANTING TO GET THE VACCINE AND BELIEVING IT'S MY PERSONAL RIGHT OR BELIEVING THAT IT SHOULD BE THE SUBJECT OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE LIKE THAT WHO MIGHT MATE THAT ARGUMENT?

>> I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU SEE RACIST OR MISOGYNIST SIGNS YOU SHOULD LEAVE.

YOU MAY FEEL THAT WAY BUT YOU DON'T BELONG IN THE GROUP THERE, AND YOU HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO EXPRESS JURY DISSATISFACTION.

>> Reilly: I SHOULD MENTION SINCE BEEN TALKING ABOUT OPPOSITION TO VACCINE MANDATES IN BOSTON AND ELSE WERE, THERE WAS A NEW MASS INC.

POLL WHICH CAME OUT A DAY OR TWOING AGO, WHICH SHOW 94th FOR THESE MEASURES, 65% OF MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS AND 73% OF PEOPLE IN BOSTON IN THE INNER SUPERBS BACK RIERK PROOF OF VACCINATION FOR EMPLOYEES OF PRIVATE BUSINESSES, THERE IS A LITTLE LESS SUPPORT OF REQUIRING PROOF OF VACCINATION FROM SUPPORTERS, 65% OF PEOPLE IN AND RIGHT AROUND THE CITY.

SO THAT'S SOME IMPORTANT CONTEXT.

BECCA, LET'S GO BACK TO YOU.

I'D LOVER TO HEAR YOUR TAKE ON THE POINT PETER RAISED WHICH IS THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE VETO PROOF MAJORITY IN THE STATE HOUSE AND IF YOU GUYS WANT TO, AND I KNOW YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL DEMOCRATS YOU SPEAK FOUR YOURSELF.

BUT DEMOCRATS AS A GROUP, IF THEY WANTED TO PROACTIVELY SHAKE THE STATE'S COVID POLICY AS OPPOSED TO WAITING FOR BAKER TO TAKE THE LEAD IT COULD BE HAPPENING, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HAPPENING.

YOUR BILL REQUIRING MASKING THROUGH END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR IS YET TO -- HAS IT GOTTEN A HEARING YET?

I SHOULD KNOW BUT I DON'T.

>> IT DID HAVE A HEARING.

>> Reilly: OKAY.

>> AND THIS IS A -- AS I MENTIONED EARLIER IN OUR CONVERSATION TODAY, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH LITERALLY HAS IN ITS TITLE, EXECUTE.

AND I ACTUALLY AM A FORMER EMPLOYEE OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

I WAS AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH SECRETARY LEVEL ATTORNEY AT THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.

THERE IS A SPECIFIC DESIGN IN OUR SEPARATION OF POWERS UNDER IT IS THE EXECUTIVE BRAMPLE THAT IS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO ACT QUICKLY AND HASTILY, TO RESPOND TO CIRCUMSTANCES EXACTLY LIKE THIS.

>> Reilly: FAIR ENOUGH.

>> RIGHT?

THE LEGISLATURE AGAIN IS SLOWER MORE DELIBERATE.

WE HAVE 200 PEOPLE, WE AGAIN BY DESIGN LEAD BY COMMITTEE, RIGHT?

THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WORKING AS A COLLABORATIVE BODY AND WORKING AS A SINGLE EXECUTIVE.

AND IT IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY AND HIS ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSIBILITY TO BE PROACTIVE.

IN FACT OUR WHOLE VISION OF HEALTH CARE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS HAS SHIFTED FROM A REACTIVE VIEW TO A PROACTIVE VIEW RIGHT?

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT PREVENTIVE HEALTH CARE THESE DAYS.

>> Reilly: THAT'S TRUE.

>> AND WE ARE NOT SEEING THAT IN ANY WAY, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW, FROM THE GOVERNOR OR HIS ADMINISTRATION.

>> Reilly: I THINK I MIGHT HAVE SAID THIS ON AIR THE LAST TIME I TALKED TO YOU FROM THE GBH STUDIOS BUT AS A PARENT, TO PUT MY CARDS ON THE FABLE, VERY, VERY HAPPY MY KIDS ARE BACK IN SCHOOL IN PERSON, I WOULD ECHO MAYOR WU IT IS CLEARLY SUPERIOR, BETTER FOR THEM.

I WANT THEM TO STAY THERE, THAT'S WHY I'M HOPING THAT EDUCATION COMMISSIONER JEFFREY REILLY EXTENDS THE MASK MANDATE.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE AS A PARENT.

JIMMY HILLS BACK TO YOU.

THE MAYOR'S MASK MANDATES ARE GOING TO BE KICKING IN NEXT WEEK.

CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO NEED TO SHOW VACCINATIONS, SOME PUBLIC EMPLOYEES LOSING THEIR JOBS BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO GET VACCINATED AND THEY'VE DRAWN A PERSONAL LINE IN THE SAND.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE PROTESTS THAT ALL OF US WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER ARE GOING TO BE SIMMERING DOWN IN THE WEEKS AHEAD OR DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO INTENSIFY?

>> ADAM I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO COME BACK TO THE QUESTION BECAUSE I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE SENATOR'S POINT.

>> Reilly: OKAY.

>> AND THAT PETER MADE AS WELL.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE UNION'S FIGHT TO CONTROL A WORK SPACE, AND THE LACKS OF THE DKS -- LACK OF THE SENATOR'S POINT, FOR THE GOVERNOR TO EXECUTE, HERE IS THE POINT, WE'RE IN A NOVEL VIRUS WORLD PANDEMIC AND SO WE NEED RESIDENTS TO UNDERSTAND AS MUCH AS THE SIGNS AS THINGS ARE CHANGING AT THE CDC AND I UNDERSTAND FOLKS HAD SOME ISSUES FOR THE CDC THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, NEED TO HAVE QUIT EXPEDITED EXECUTION OF THOSE MANDATES.

IF YOU LEAVE THE VARYING DECISIONS UP TO THE EMPLOYERS WHO GO OUT INTO THE PUBLIC WHO GO HOME TO SOMEONE WHO POSSIBLY HAS A COULD MORE BYITY, A CO-MORBIDITY, IS VERY SCARY, ADAM I THINK I REMEMBER YOUR POINT.

TO MY POINT THE MAYOR IS MAKING -- LISTEN.

WE NEED LEADERSHIP TO LEAD TO THE SENATOR'S POINT AND THOUGH THERE ARE CERTAIN IMPLICATIONS THAT MAYOR JANEY HAD RAISED AROUND THE REQUIREMENT OF THE VACCINATION CARD, ARE THERE INEQUITIES, ARE THERE REASONS?

LISTEN WE'RE AT A POINT NOW THAT AWAY FROM RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION AND DOCTOR-PROVING A MEDICAL EXEMPTION, THE BEST THING WE CAN DO IS GET VACCINATED AND BOOSTED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THIS VIRUS.

AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AND I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT I ASK THOSE FOLKS THAT HAVE THAT OPINION TO PRESENT ME DATA SCIENCE THAT SAYS THAT THERE'S A MACRO-ISSUE WITH THE VACCINATIONS IN A MANNER THAT THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE REAL VALIDITY OF SOME MINIMAL RISK.

>> Reilly: ARE PETER KADZIS -- >> I'M SORRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

ARE THEY GOING TO PROBABLY INTENSIFY TOWARDS THE MAYOR AND OTHERS?

THEY PROBABLY WILL, BUT I SENSE A CADENCE IN THE MAYOR THAT SHE'S STANDING HER GROUND.

NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN BOSTON AND ELECTED THIS MAYOR SUPPORT THE FACT OF THE MANDATES THAT SHE'S IMPLEMENTED.

>> Reilly: PETER KADZIS, LAST QUESTION TO YOU AND IT'S A HUGE ONE.

THERE WAS A BOARD OF HEALTH MEETING IN THE CITY OF BEVERLY, RIGHT BEFORE NEW YEAR'S IN WHICH PEOPLE OPPOSED TO VAX MANDATES, THEY ACCUSED BEVERLY OFFICIALS AS BEING COMMUNISTS.

IT WAS THE POINT OF ONE TOICIAL THAT THEY HEAD DOWN TO BOSTON AND BURN DOWN MAYOR WU'S HOUSE.

THAT WAS THE ACTUAL SUGGESTION FLOATED AT THE MEETING.

IS PARTICIPATORY POLITICS IN MASSACHUSETTS GOING TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE THE COVID AREA OR IS IT GOING TO RENDER TOXIC POLITICS AT THE CITY AND TOWN LEVEL?

>> IT IS CERTAINLY INJECTING A DEGREE OF TOXICITY I HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE THE BUSING CRISIS, THE DESEGREGATION CRISIS, MANY YEARS AGO.

I FEAR COVID IS GOING TO BE LIKE, IS LIKE THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN.

IT IS GOING TO BE WITH US A LONG, LONG TIME.

HOPEFULLY, NOT THAT LONG.

BUT AS I SET, WE ARE IN A TRANSITION.

BETWEEN DEALING WITH COVID AS A FACT OF LIFE, WE'RE MOVING AWAY DEALING WITH IT AS AN EMERGENCY, AND TRANSITIONING TO DEALING WITH IT AS A FACT OF LIFE.

THESE PEOPLE IN BEVERLY, YOU KNOW, WERE JUST RIGHT NEAR SALEM WHERE THE SALEM WITCH TRIALS WERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A REVERSE SITUATION.

NIECE PEOPLE ARE -- THESE PEOPLE THE ANTIVAXXERS IN BEVERLY WHO STILL BELIEVE IN WITCHES.

YOU KNOW?

THEY THINK VACCINATIONS ARE EVIL MAGIC.

>> Reilly: WELL, I HOPE THERE'S A SIMMERING DOWN AS WE LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT.

IT'S A LITTLE TOO HEATED LITTLE TOO FRIGHTENING RIGHT NOW.

PETER KADZIS, JIMMY HILLS, STATE SENATOR REBECCA RAUSCH, THANKS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Reilly: FINALLY TONIGHT, SEVERAL VIEWERS GOT IN TOUCH TO SAY I SHOULD HAVE PUSHED BACK DURING MY LAST SHOW, WHEN ONE OF OUR GUESTS SAID THE U.S. IS A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC RATHER THAN A DEMOCRACY.

I DIDN'T BECAUSE IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.

THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE MADE DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENT INSTEAD OF HILLARY CLINTON, EVEN THOUGH SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

THE SENATE GIVES THE STATE OF WYOMING-- WHICH HAS FEWER THAN 600,000 RESIDENTS-- THE SAME POLITICAL CLOUT AS CALIFORNIA, WHICH HAS ALMOST 40 MILLION, AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TERRITORIES LIKE PUERTO RICO, WHOSE RESIDENTS CAN'T VOTE FOR PRESIDENT AND HAVE NO REAL VOICE IN CONGRESS.

ALL THAT SAID, THE IDEA THAT THE U.S.

SHOULDN'T EVEN TRY TO BE A DEMOCRACY IS GETTING A LOT OF SUPPORT THESE DAYS, MAYBE BECAUSE THE G.O.P.

KEEPS LOSING THE POPULAR PRESIDENTIAL VOTE.

IF YOU'RE DISMISSIVE OF THE IDEA OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, CONSIDER SOME ADVICE RONALD REAGAN ONCE GAVE IN A SPEECH AT HIS ALMA MATER, EUREKA COLLEGE: "THIS DEMOCRACY OF OURS, WHICH SOMETIMES WE'VE TREATED SO LIGHTLY, IS MORE THAN EVER A COMFORTABLE CLOAK.

SO LET US NOT TEAR IT ASUNDER, FOR NO MAN KNOWS WHEN IT IS DESTROYED WHERE OR WHEN HE WILL FIND ITS PROTECTIVE WARMTH AGAIN."

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT DO COME BACK NEXT WEEK, KEEP THE FEEDBACK COMING AND IF YOU HAVE A POLITICAL STORY IDEA-- SEND IT OUR WAY.

WHETHER IT'S STATEWIDE, CITY-CENTRIC, OR SOMETHING GOING ON IN A SMALL TOWN THAT YOU THINK THE PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT, WE'D LOVE TO HEAR IT.

THE EMAIL IS talkingpolitics@wgbh.org THE WEBSITE IS wgbh.org/news/talkingpolitics OR FIND ME ON TWITTER, @reillyadam.

FOR NOW, THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODNIGHT.

♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org