♪ CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY.

TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON."

CLAUDING GAY SPEAKS FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE STEPPING DOWN AS PRESIDENT OF HARVARD.

WE LOOK AT THE OUTCRY, HER RESIGNATION, AND THE RESPONSE.

PLUS, SNOW COMING TO BOSTON, BUT WHERE DOES IT FALL IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF WARMER WINTERS?

AND JERROD BOWEN SPOKE WITH SALMAN TOOR.

HIS WORK IS NOW ON DISPLAY AT BRANDEIS.

DID HARVARD DO ENOUGH TO PROTECT CLAUDING GAY FROM A CAMPAIGN TO UNSEAT HER, OR IS HER TESTIMONY AND ALLEGATIONS OF PLAGIARISM TO BLAME FOR HER RESIGNATION AS HARVARD'’S FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

CLAUDING GAY CALLED THE DEMANDS "A SINGLE SKIRMISH IN A BROADER REPORT TO UN-RAVEL PUBLIC FAITH IN PILLARS OF AMERICAN SOCIETY," MORNING IN AN OP-ED THAT "TRUSTED INSTITUTIONS OF ALL TYPES FROM PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCIES TO NEWS ORGANIZATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO FALL VICTIM TO COORDINATED ATTEMPTS TO UNDERMINE THEIR LEGITIMACY AND RUINED THEIR LEADERS CREDIBILITY," SO IS THERE A BROADER CAMPAIGN AGAINST FIRST CITY EQUITY AND INCLUSION EFFORTS AND HOW SHOULD WE RESPOND?

THE HOSTS OF THE POLITICS AND PROSECCO VIDEOCAST JACQUETTA VAN ZANDT AND COLETTE PHILLIPS JOIN ME NOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

CRYSTAL: WE TALKED ABOUT THIS OFF-CAMERA, ABOUT WHAT LOOKS LIKE A COORDINATED POLITICAL ATTACK ON DR. CLAUDING GAY.

>> THIS HAS BEEN A DOGGED PURSUIT EVEN SINCE SHE WAS NAMED RUNNING TO BE PRESIDENT.

THIS SPEAKS TO MEDIOCRITY THAT IS BOTHERED BY HER ASCENSION AND ASSIMILATION INTO CULTURES WHERE THEY THINK WE DO NOT BELONG.

BUT I LOVE ABOUT DR. CLAUDING GAY IS SHE NEVER LOST HER SENSE OF SELF, AND THAT BOTHERS THEM MORE.

THIS ATTACK IS WHAT WE WILL SEE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, AND QUITE FRANKLY FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH COALESCING AROUND THESE PILLARS OF THE COMMUNITY, AND I FEEL LIKE THAT IS WHERE THE CONVERSATION HAS TO START.

CRYSTAL: LET'’S TALK ABOUT THE MESSAGING AROUND THIS, AND OF COURSE THERE WAS A LOT OF CONVERSATION AROUND THIS STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AFTER THAT CAPITOL HILL TESTIMONY.

WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS?

COLETTE: I TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING JACQUETTA VAN ZANDT SAID, THAT SHE FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE SYMBOL OF THE ANTI-WOKE, ANTI-DNI CROWD, AND I THINK SHE FELL INTO THE TRAP IN THE PLAGIARISM BECAME THE FINAL NAIL IN HER COFFIN, BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HER BACK STORY.

SHE ASCENDED TO THE PRESIDENCY FROM AN ACADEMIC BACKGROUND.

AND SHE TRIED TO WALK THAT RAZORS EDGE OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM WHILE OVERSEEING A CAMPUS IN TURMOIL, AND IF I'’M GOING TO BE -- I'’D LIKE HER, IF I'’M GOING TO BE TOTALLY HONEST, I DON'’T THINK SHE HANDLED THAT WELL, PARTICULARLY AS A BLACK WOMAN WHO HERSELF HAS EXPERIENCED RACISM AND VERBAL ASSAULT.

I THINK IN HER RESPONSE INITIALLY AFTER OCTOBER 7, PEOPLE FELT SHE CAME ACROSS AS ROBOTIC, AND THEN ON CAPITOL HILL, UH, SHE SEE MORE CONCERN ABOUT ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH THAT THE SAFETY OF HER STUDENTS.

AND I THINK THAT THE JOB OF A COLLEGE PRESIDENT IS TO CREATE A SAFE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT FOR EVERY STUDENT, AND IF I WERE ADVISING HER FROM A CRISIS MANAGEMENT AND COMMUNICATION MESSAGING PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD HAVE SAID THERE ARE SOME VERY SPECIFIC THINGS SHE COULD HAVE DONE UPON HER RETURN FROM CAPITOL HILL, AND I WOULD SAY IMMEDIATELY REVISE AND REVAMP THE INSTITUTIONAL CODE OF CONDUCT WITH ZERO-TOLERANCE FOR HATE SPEECH AND FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS CALLED VIOLENCE ON CAMPUS.

ANYONE WHO VIOLATES THOSE SHOULD BE SUSPENDED OR FINED OR EXPELLED, PERIOD, AND REVAMP AND REVISE HARVARD'’S DIVERSITY EQUITY AND INCLUSION POLICY TO BE MORE INCLUSIVE OF ANTI-SEMITISM, ISLAMOPHOBIA, AND THE OPPRESSION OF OTHER RELIGIOUS MINORITIES.

THOSE ARE SOME VERY SPECIFIC THINGS.

I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF DE AND I HAS BEEN TOO RARELY IT HAS BEEN INCLUSIVE OF THOSE IN THE POWER STRUCTURE AND HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE SYSTEMIC CHANGES.

THE PATH TO INCLUSION HAS GOT TO BE ANTI-RADICAL, RADICAL ANTI--EXCLUSION, AND THAT MEANS BRINGING EVERYONE TO THE TABLE, INCLUDING WHITE MALES.

SO I THINK THAT TO IS A FAILURE.

CRYSTAL: RIGHT.

TALK TO ME ABOUT, DO YOU THINK THIS WAS ABOUT A FAILURE IN TERMS OF POLICY AND POSITION AT HARVARD?

JACQUETTA: LISTEN.

HARVARD HAS BEEN EXISTENCE SINCE THE 1600S, SO THERE POLICY APPS CAN GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE 1600S WHERE SLAVERY WAS AN ISSUE, RECONSTRUCTION WAS AN ISSUE, LACK OF RECONSTRUCTION, CIVIL-RIGHTS LEGACIES -- WE CAN TALK ABOUT ALL OF THAT.

FOR ME, THE CONVERSATION SHOULD BE FIRST OF ALL, HER TESTIMONY WAS WRITTEN BY LAWYERS.

THESE WERE NOT JUST HER THOUGHTS.

COLETTE: THE PROBLEM -- JACQUETTA: AND IF IT WERE JUST HER THOUGHTS I DON'’T THINK THIS COUNTRY IS READY FOR A CONVERSATION AROUND THAT BECAUSE THAT PUTS TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE BOWL OF RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHAT WE NEEDED TO BE TALKING BUT EVEN THEN AND TODAY IS HOW ARE WE GOING TO HAVE THESE CULTURAL CONVERSATIONS WHERE EVERYONE'’S OPINION IS HEARD AND VALIDATED -- IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AT ALL TIMES, BUT SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY HOW SHE PLANS TO GOVERN AS PRESIDENT AND PUT THESE POLICIES IN PLACE, BUT IT IS NOT ONLY HER RESPONSIBILITY SOLELY, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE EXPECTATION WAS, H, THESE ARE HER WORDS AND I DON'’T AGREE, WE WILL GO AFTER HER.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WENT DOWN.

OR BEING BROUGHT TO CONGRESS WAS A BIGGER PART OF THE CAMPAIGN TO TAKE HER DOWN ANYWAY.

THAT JUST ADDED TO IT.

COLETTE PHILLIPS IS RIGHT, PLAGIARISM WAS JUST GOING INTO THE DRAWER AND PICKING OUT A NEW PAIR OF SOCKS.

FOR ME, I'’M SAD TO SEE IT GO DOWN THAT WAY BUT IF WE HELP EVERY PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW THEY GOVERN, THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PRESIDENTS AT UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOUR THOUGHTS DON'’T ALIGN WITH THOSE ALREADY IN PLACE.

CRYSTAL: YEAH.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

WE HAVE A QUOTE FROM BAILEY SCHAPIRO WHO SPOKE WITH GBH ABOUT CLAUDING GAY SAYING SHE IS THE CRYSTALLIZATION OF THAT LOT OF THE CRITIQUE OF DISTRESS IN AND GENERAL DISSATISFACTION WITH HIGHER EDUCATION.

SHE IS THE APOTHEOSIS OF AN ANTI-INTELLECTUAL MOVEMENT THAT VALUES DE I, IDENTITY AND ACTIVISM OVER TRUTH-SEEKING, MERIT, AND EDUCATION."

WE SEE THE CONSERVATIVES OR THE RADICAL RIGHT HOWEVER YOU WANT TO LABEL THEM THEM THE CLARA CAMPAIGN AGAINST HIGHER EDUCATION.

CLAUDING GAY BEING ONE OF THEIR LATEST "VICTORIES," AS HAS BEEN REPORTED AS THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING.

HOW CAN INSTITUTIONS PROTECT THEIR HIRES, THESE PEOPLE IN THESE POSITIONS THAT THE WORK CAN BE DONE.

ESPECIALLY ON IN TERMS OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION?

JACQUETTA: WELL FIRST OF ALL, LET US GET BACK TO THE POINT.

I AGREE AGAIN WITH EVERYTHING JACQUETTA VAN ZANDT SAID.

JACQUETTA: YOU TAUGHT ME WELL.

COLETTE: I'’M LOOKING AT THIS THROUGH A PRAGMATIC PERSPECTIVE.

IF YOU NOTICE, THE PEOPLE WHO VEHEMENTLY WENT AFTER CLAUDING GAY WERE ALL WHITE MALES FEELING THREATENED.

THEY WERE FEELING EXCLUDED.

THEY WERE FEELING IRRELEVANT.

AND I AM SAYING THAT IF WE ARE TO REALLY COME TOGETHER AND ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FAR RIGHT EXTREMIST PEOPLE, I AM TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE REASONABLE.

IF WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT CONCLUSION, WE HAVE TO BRING WHITE MALE ALLIES TO THE TABLE, BECAUSE IN TRUTH AND IN FACT WE NEED WHITE MALES TO STAND IN THE BREACH, NOT COME IN ON THE WHITE HORSE TO SAVE WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, BUT TO LEAN IN, LISTEN, AND LEAD FROM BEHIND.

WHEN I WAS A KID AT SCHOOL, WE HAD TUG-OF-WAR, AND WE USED TO PUT THE MOST STRONGEST KID AT THE BACK TO ANCHOR US, SO THE LITTLE PEOPLE LIKE ME WOULD BE AT THE FRONT BEING STRUNG UP, BUT WE WERE PULLING KNOWING THAT THE GIRL IN MY CLASS, THE BIGGEST GIRL -- [LAUGHTER] -- WAS HOLDING US DOWN.

CRYSTAL: RIGHT.

COLETTE: THAT IS WHAT WE NEED AND WHY WE NEED TO HAVE WHITE MEN AT THE TABLE TO BE ALLIES, AS THE ANCHOR, TO LISTEN TO WHAT WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE TELLING YOU THEY NEED YOU TO DO TO SUPPORT THEM.

DON'’T NEED YOU TO SUPPORT OUR ISSUE, BUT WE NEED YOU TO HELP DISMANTLE THE BARRIERS AND ALL OF THE STRUCTURAL SYSTEMIC AND INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND GENDER INEQUALITY THAT HAS EXISTED FOR OVER 400 YEARS.

CRYSTAL: YEAH.

IS THAT THE WEIGHT TO PULL IN MORE ALLIES?

JACQUETTA: SHE IS RIGHT.

THERE IS ROOM AT THE TABLE FOR EVERYBODY BUT NOT EVERYBODY FEELS THAT THERE IS ROOM AT THE TABLE.

I DON'’T LOOK TO BE IN SPACES I AM NOT WELCOME IN AND I WILL NOT ASK ANYBODY'’S PERMISSION, NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL, AND THAT IS PART OF MY SUCCESS IN PROTECTING MY MPS, BUT TO HER POINT, -- MY PIECE, BUT TO HER POINT, THEY CAN'’T COME TO THE TABLE AND TELL US WHAT TO DO.

WE NEED TO TELL THEM THIS IS WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO.

IT IS LIKE DATING SOMEONE.

THIS IS HOW TO LOVE ME.

THIS IS HOW TO CARE FOR ME.

AND DO IT IN A WAY WHERE YOU ARE NOT BLAMING, BUT HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY.

COLETTE: YOU GOT IT.

JACQUETTA: AND I FEEL LIKE THE CONVERSATION THAT WE AS A CULTURE HAVE TO HAVE IS THAT WHEN WE DO ASCEND TO THE SPACES THAT HAVE BEEN NON-BLACK FOR SO LONG, THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY FOR US TO TEACH AND LEAD FROM A SPACE OF I AM NOT HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN 1782.

I AM HOLDING YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT'’S HAPPENING IN 2024, AND NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED, BUT HERE IS HOW TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

WHEN YOU TELL THEM THAT, THAT IS HOW YOU FEEL HEARD AND VALIDATED.

THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

CRYSTAL: THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT WILL CONTINUE.

JACQUETTA VAN ZANDT AND COLETTE PHILLIPS, THANK YOU.

WINTER AND SNOW STORMS GO HAND-IN-HAND IN BOSTON.

LAST MONTH WAS ONE OF THE CITY'’S WARMEST DECEMBERS ON RECORD.

THE GREATER BOSTON AREA HAS NOT SEEN A MAJOR SNOWSTORM IN MORE THAN TWO YEARS.

METEOROLOGISTS ADDICT THIS NOTE DROUGHT -- SNOWDROP MAY BE OVER SOON WITH A STORM THIS WEEKEND.

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM THE STORM AND WHERE DOES IT FALL IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS AS CLIMATE CHANGE TAKES ITS TOLLS ON NEW ENGLAND WINTERS?

DAVE EPSTEIN JOINS ME NOW.

DAVE, THE SNOW IS COMING.

WE CANNOT AVOID IT I SUPPOSE?

DAVID: WE NEVER HAD A DEER WITHOUT SNOW, EVEN LAST YEAR, ONE OF THE LOWER WINTERS ON RECORD IN TERMS OF SNOWFALL.

THIS WINTER IT HAS SNOWED .2 INCHES.

WE WILL BETTER BACK BY QUITE A BIT SUNDAY.

I HAVE THE SNOW SHOVEL.

I HAVE THAT AND DON'’T FORGET THE SNOW BRUSH.

I AM ARMED AND READY.

SHOULD CRYSTAL: FOLKS BE BATTENING DOWN THE HATCHES.

-- HATCHES?

>> IT'’S NOT A MONSTER STORM.

IT IS A SIX-INCH TO 12-INCH SNOWSTORM, FORMIDABLE, COMING ON A SUNDAY, WE ARE WELL PREPARED.

WE KNOW IT IS COMING.

TRAFFIC IS MINIMAL.

SCHOOLS ARE OUT.

ALONG THE COASTLINE, 3 INCHES TO 6 INCHES.

THINGS COULD CHANGE.

WE HAVE ANOTHER SET OF MODEL RUNS FRIDAY AND SATURDAY SO THAT COULD GO UP BY A LITTLE BIT.

IT COULD GO DOWN IF THE WARMER AIR COMES IN OF THE OCEAN BUT RIGHT NOW I'’M PRETTY CONFIDENT ON THAT 6 INCHES TO 12 INCHES AWAY FROM THE COASTLINE, ESPECIALLY WORCESTER HILLS, AND FOR THE CAPE, ISLANDS, 4 INCHES PERHAPS 5 INCHES TOWARDS THE CANAL.

CRYSTAL: WE KNOW THAT THE WINTER TEMPERATURES HAVE BEEN FLUCTUATING BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND IT IS ACTUALLY GETTING WARMER.

DAVID: ABSOLUTELY.

A COUPLE OF THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL WEATHER LIKE A SNOWSTORM WILL HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE WILL HAVE CULTLIKE LAST WINTER IN FEBRUARY.

WE HAD THE COLDEST DATE SINCE THE 1950'’S IN SPITE OF THE FACT WE ARE WARMING UP SO BEHIND EVERYTHING AS CLIMATE CHANGE AND WE ARE GETTING WARMER PROGRESSIVELY EVERY WINTER BUT EVEN IN A WARMING CLIMATE WE WILL SEE SNOW, COLD.

IT IS JUST THE SEASON IS SHRINKING SO WE ARE STARTING WINTER LATER AND ENDING IT EARLIER BUT IN TERMS OF SNOWFALL EXCEPT FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF WINTERS, WE ARE STILL SEEING QUITE A BIT OF SNOW, AND UNTIL TEMPERATURES WARM UP IN THE SNOW FALLS AS RAIN MORE CONSISTENTLY, THE AVERAGE SNOWFALL WILL NOT CHANGE A LOT OVER AT LEAST THE NEXT DECADE OR TWO.

CRYSTAL: WE WENT OUT AND ASK FOLKS HOW THEY'’RE FEELING ABOUT HOW THIS WINTER HAS BEEN SHAPING UP.

IT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS WE DO IN WINTER BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS A SOUNDBITE OR OPINION ABOUT THE WINTER.

WE HAD ONE GENTLEMAN WHO TALKED ABOUT THE LACK OF SNOW FOR SKIING OR THE SKI SEASON ITSELF, SO LET'’S TAKE A LISTEN.

>> IT IS GREAT.

I WISH IT COULD BE PUSHED TO FEBRUARY, MARCH, OR NONE AT ALL.

I BELIEVE THE SNOWSTORM WAS I SEE IT.

A LOT OF PREDICTION AND NOTHING SHOWS UP IN VICE A VERSA.

>> I DO ENJOY THE SEASON.

WE DID NOT PAY FOR AS MUCH PLOWING, CLEANING, SO I'’D LIKE THIS WEATHER.

>> I'’M HOPING TO GO TO THE PATRIOTS GAME ON SUNDAY.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET A SNOW BALLGAME AND WINTER WEATHER ON THE MAP.

>> I'’M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT BECAUSE IT IS A HALLMARK OF WINTER.

CRYSTAL: WE HAD SOME FOLKS WHO TALKED ABOUT THEY WANTED TO GO SKIING IN VERMONT AND THE SNOW WAS NOT THAT GREAT.

IT FEELS LIKE FOLKS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE IN TERMS OF THE WINTERTIME.

DAVID: I THINK THAT IS DEFINITELY THE MARK OF THE SEASON.

SOME PEOPLE LOVE IT.

SOME PEOPLE WISH IT WERE SUMMER.

I DON'’T LIKE THE HEAT.

I DON'’T MIND THE COLD.

IN TERMS OF SKI SEASON, THE SKI AREAS WILL BE SEEING SNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

THAT BEFORE CHRISTMAS WIPED OUT THE SNOW BUT IT WILL BE COMING BACK IN WITH THE COLDER TEMPERATURES SKIERS CAN MAKE SNOW IN THAT SYSTEM HAS IMPROVED A LOT OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DECADES.

CRYSTAL: I KNOW YOU ARE THE PLANT GUY, SO WHAT SHOULD FOLKS BE DOING TO PREPARE IF THEY HAVE WINTER PLANTS OUT THERE NOW?

DAVID: IT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

MOST THINK SNOW BECAUSE THE SNOW ACTS AS A GOOD INSULATOR FOR THE PLANTS.

IF YOU HAVE PLANTS THAT ARE MAY BE TALL IN THE BRANCHES GET WEIGHTED DOWN BY SNOW, YOU COULD TIE THEM UP WITH TWINE.

I'’M NOT A HUGE FAN OF COVERING THEM WITH BURLAP THEM, BUT GENERALLY THE SNOW IS A GOOD THING AND GIVES THE GROUND A LOT OF INSULATION AND HELPS TO PROTECT THINGS.

CRYSTAL: WE HAVE TO BE THOUGHTFUL OF SNOWMELT AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE I CAN HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.

DAVID: IT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND GOOD POINT IN NEXT WEEK WE MAY RUN INTO A BIG PROBLEM TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY.

WE HAVE ANOTHER SYSTEM COMING IN SO WE GET THIS PRECIPITATION, ABOUT 1 INCH OF WATER IN THE WEATHER SNOW OR RAIN, ON THE CAPE, THEN ANOTHER 1 INCH OR 2 INCHES TUESDAY INTO WEDNESDAY WITH THE WARM UP IN THE FORECAST, SO WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL FOR FLOODING, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WEDNESDAY AND, SOMETHING THAT I WILL BE WATCHING AND WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT EACH MORNING DURING THE UPCOMING WEEK.

CRYSTAL: THAT IS A BIG CONCERN AS WE TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT AS WE GET MORE SEVERE FLOODING, RURAL COMMUNITIES ESPECIALLY HAVE A HARD TIME COPING WITH THAT?

DAVID: WE KNOW THAT THE MODELS FORECAST THE NORTHEAST TO HAVE MORE EXTREME PRECIPITATION EVENTS IN ANY OTHER AREA OF THE COUNTRY, SO IF OUR PRECIPITATION DOES NOT GO UP AND WE END UP WITH 45 INCHES OF PRECIPITATION, THE ACTUAL AMOUNT ABOUT HOW WE GET IT CHANGES, SO INSTEAD OF FEWER SMALLER EVENTS, WERE GETTING MORE LARGER EVENTS, STILL ADDING UP BUT THE WAY WE'’RE GETTING IT IS CHANGING AND THAT IS THE CASE OF THE SNOWFALL.

AS THE CLIMATE WARMS, IT HOLDS THE MOISTURE BUT HOW WE GET IT IS MOVING UP A LITTLE BIT.

CRYSTAL: DO PREPARATIONS ON THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL HAVE TO DO YOU THINK HAVE TO CHANGE TO ADAPT TO SOME OF THIS, ESPECIALLY AS WE TALK ABOUT LIKE YOU KNOW, WE KNOW SNOW IS COMING BUT DO WE NEED TO PREPARE DIFFERENTLY FOR THAT ESPECIALLY, IF WE THINK MAYBE FLOODING WILL HAPPEN RIGHT AFTER THAT?

DAVID: WHAT YOU SAID AT THE END IS WHAT WE WILL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IS THE CLIMATE WARMS.

IT USED TO BE IF YOU GO BACK 50 YEARS, WE WOULD GO INTO WINTER AND STAY CALM LONGER AND WOULD NOT HAVE THE FROST AND FREEZES THE WAY WE HAVE NOW GO BACK OUT AND GO BACK INTO WINTER, SO THAT IMPACT OF THE SPIKING OF WINTER AND FLOODING, ALSO DOING MORE DAMAGE TO THE ROADS BECAUSE THE ROADS FREEZE, THOUGHT, FREEZE, THAW, AND THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE BUDGETED FOR ROAD REPAIR AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT SPRING LOOKS LIKE WITH POTHOLES AND THAT COULD BE EXACERBATED BY MORE FLUCTUATION OF TEMPERATURE.

CRYSTAL: YEAH, SPRING, SUMMER, HOWEVER LONG YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THOSE BOTTLES IN YOUR COMMUNITY AS WELL.

WELL, DAVE, WE WILL BE READY FOR THE SNOWSTORM.

DAVID: GREAT TO BE HERE.

THANKS, CRYSTAL.

CRYSTAL: FINALLY TONIGHT, A VISION OF QUEER NIGHTLIFE PAINTED IN A STYLE INSPIRED BY 17TH-CENTURY AND 18TH-CENTURY MASTERS.

THE PAINTINGS EMBODY BOLDNESS, EDGINESS, BEAUTY, AND TENDERNESS PAINTING A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE OF THE QUEER BROWN EXPERIENCE OF HIS WORLD IN PAKISTAN IN THE DIASPORA.

WE EXPLORED HIS ARTISTIC EVOLUTION IN HIS COLLECTION NOW ON DISPLAY AT BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY'’S ART MUSEUM.

>> THE PAINTINGS ARE ABOUT WORLDS OF LOVERS, FRIENDS ON THE TOWN, AND THE FAMILY, BUT IN THESE WORKS OFTEN ENVELOPED IN AN EMERALD HAZE, THERE IS MORE APTLY, SOME ECSTASY HERE, SOME DANGER THERE, AND IN PIECES LIKE THIS, A LABYRINTH OF LAYERS.

>> THERE ARE NOVELS AND MOVIES ABOUT HOUSES LIKE THIS.

I WANTED TO TAKE THE STORY OF THE FAMILY AS THE BACKGROUND OF ANOTHER STORY, WHICH WAS GOING TO BE IN THE FOREGROUND WHICH DOES NOT USUALLY GET TOLD.

>> FRONT AND CENTER HERE STEPS AWAY FROM WHAT COULD BE A PAKISTANI FAMILY LIKE HIS OWN WHERE TWO MEN ARE ENTWINED UNDER A TENT.

>> INSTEAD OF A MOMENT OF FEAR AND HIDING IT IS MORE LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IS IN THE BACKGROUND, AND THIS IS THE REAL STORY.

>> CALL IT NO ORDINARY LOVE, THE TITLE OF THE SHOW EXHIBITING SALMAN TOOR'’S MOST RECENT WORK.

>> THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, I DECIDED TO MAKE MY PAINTINGS, ABOUT BEING MORE OUT AS A GAY MAN THROUGH MY PAINTING THAT I WAS BEFORE.

>> THEY ARE A FAR CRY FROM GROWING UP IN HIS NATIVE PAKISTAN IN HIS EARLY WORK WAS HE LABORED OVER PAINTINGS INSPIRED BY 17TH-CENTURY AND 18TH-CENTURY MASTERS.

COMING OUT ARTISTICALLY MEANT COMING INTO HIS OWN AND LAUNCHING INTO LARGELY NOCTURNAL NOTIONS OF QUEER LIFE.

>> THERE IS SOMETHING BOLD AND EDGY ABOUT THE WORKS.

DROPDEAD BEAUTIFUL.

ALSO, PAINFUL BUT VERY TO INVERT.

>> THE MUSEUM'’S DIRECTOR HAS BEEN WATCHING HIS RISE IN THE ART WORLD, ESPECIALLY SINCE HIS FIRST SOLO EXHIBITION AT THE NEW YORK WHITNEY MUSEUM IN 2020.

>> HE FOUND A VISUAL VOCABULARY THAT ARTICULATES THE LIFE OF A QUEER BROWN MAN LIVING BETWEEN HIS HOMELAND AND DIASPORA, AND CREATING A COMMUNITY AND VISUALIZING THAT COMMUNITY ON HIS OWN TERMS.

>> ONE THAT MOSTLY UNFOLDS A WORLD AWAY FROM PAKISTAN WHERE HOMOSEXUALITY IS PUNISHED BY LAW, BUT WHERE SALMAN TOOR FOUND SAFETY AND CAMARADERIE AMONG FRIENDS IN HIS HIGH SCHOOL ART ROOM.

>> THEY WERE ALL WE ARE AND OUT TO EACH OTHER IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS PRETTY HARSH OTHERWISE.

I THINK WE WERE ABLE TO CREATE A MAGIC SPACE.

>> THAT MAGIC DANCES THROUGH HIS PAINTINGS FEATURING CLOSE FRIENDS.

THEIR JOY SWELLING IN A SERIES WHERE HE RE-APPROPRIATES A HATE-FILLED WORD.

>> LIKE A FABULOUS EXHAUSTION.

AND TO ME IT IS FUN TO FILL THAT HATE WITH OBJECTS THAT I AM THINKING ABOUT, LAUNDRY, ANYTHING THAT IS FUN LIKE A DISCO BALL OR SOMETHING.

>> HATE AND DANGER CREEP INTO HIS WORK, A RESIDUE AS THE FEAR HE FELT AS A QUEER MAN AND PAKISTAN AND A REFLECTION OF THE VIOLENCE ESCALATING HERE IN THE U.S..

RENDERING IT ON THE CAMPUS HE SAYS IS THERAPEUTIC.

>> IT IS A WAY TO SEIZE CONTROL BACK AND TO BE ABLE TO BE THE MASTER OF THAT NARRATIVE.

>> WHICH IS WHY WE ALWAYS FIND A LOT OF COMIC RELIEF IN HIS PAINTINGS, FIGURES WITH PINOCCHIO-LIKE NOSES, CARTOONISH HAIR, AND RUBBERY LIMBS.

>> I DON'’T TAKE MYSELF THAT SERIOUSLY AND DO TAKE MY WORK SERIOUSLY, SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT THE WORK IS ABOUT ANY KIND OF UM PAIN OR SUFFERING DOES NOT GET BOGGED DOWN IN ANY KIND OF ONE-DIMENSIONAL PITY OR SANCTIMONIOUSNESS.

>> PAIN IS OFTEN DROWNED OUT IN THE SHOW BY LOVE.

IF HIS PAINTINGS ARE A NOVEL, THERE IS A MEANINGFUL CHAPTER ON FAMILY.

IN THIS WORK TITLED "THE WOMEN," WE SEE THE BOY GATHERED AROUND THE EXCHANGES OF HIS MOTHER AND ON SPIRIT SALMAN TOOR STILL OWNS IT AND WILL NOT LET IT GO BECAUSE IT IS STILL ROOTED IN MEMORY.

>> IT IS SOMEONE LOOKING AT THEMSELVES MAY BE IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND THAT MERE AT THE MOMENT THAN THEY DO USUALLY, AND IT IS A MOMENT I FEEL LIKE WHEN SOMEONE FINDS THEMSELVES BEAUTIFUL IN THE MIRROR.

>> IT IS ALSO A PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST AS A YOUNG MAN ON THE VERGE OF LAUNCHING INTO A WORLD ALL HIS.

CRYSTAL: YOU CAN CATCH NO ORDINARY LOVE AT BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY THROUGH FEBRUARY 11.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS.

ADAM REILLY WILL TALK TO ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES TO WRITE AN JOE BIDEN IN THE NEW HAMPSHIRE PRIMARY DESPITE THE PRESIDENT'’S BOYCOTT.

OUR REPORTER WILL BREAK DOWN THE BALLOT QUESTIONS HEADED FOR A VOTE IN NOVEMBER.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

GOOD NIGHT.

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