>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NINE NETWORK.

>> AND THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THE FIRST DONNYBROOK OF 2021.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AS WE ALSO HEAD INTO OUR 35th SEASON ON THE NINE NETWORK.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?

WELL, THIS WEEK, A LOT TO TALK ABOUT AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.

LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS WHO ARE JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION, STARTING WITH THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS WHERE SHE'S ALSO THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW, WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH ONE OF OUR FOUNDERS, BACK THERE IN 1987 WHEN IT ALL STARTED, MR. BILL McCLELLAN OF THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

ANOTHER FOUNDER WHO WAS THERE BACK IN THE DAY AND HIS HAIRCUT WAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IN 1987, BUT HE IS NOW, OF COURSE, STILL WRITING FOR THE RIVERFRONT TIMES, AS WELL AS RAW STORY.COM, AND HE'S THE HOST OF IN THE KNOW ON KTRS EVENINGS ON THE BIG 550.

AND, OF COURSE, MR. ALVIN REID.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALVIN.

IN REED, OF COURSE, IS WITH THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, AM 590 AND 97.1 FM NEWS TALK.

I GOT TO TELL YOU, EVERYBODY, STARTING WITH YOU, ALVIN REID, AS IF THIS WINTER COULDN'T GET MORE DEPRESSING, WE HAD A WEEK LIKE THIS WHERE SUPPORTERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES STORMED THE CAPITOL AND THE MOB ACTUALLY PUSHED SENATORS AND CONGRESSMAN INTO THEIR OFFICES AND THEY TOOK OVER SOME OF THE OFFICES, IT TURNS OUT.

IT WAS, BY ALMOST EVERY ACCOUNT, INCITED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHO APPEARED AT A RALLY WHEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE WERE SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH THE CEREMONIAL COUNTING OF ELECTORAL VOTES AND NOW A NEWLY ELECTED SENATOR FROM MISSOURI, COREY BUSH, HAD SENATOR JOSH HAWLEY HAD BLOOD ON HIS HANDS BECAUSE HE WAS AMONG THOSE ENCOURAGING THE PEOPLE WHO RIOTED IN NO SMALL PART BY SAYING THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLE WILL BE AND HE WANTED A SPECIAL COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE IT AND HE WAS GOING TO CHALLENGE THE OFFICIAL COUNTING.

SHE WANTS HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, ALVIN?

>> ONE IS THE NUMBER OF DAYS BETWEEN WHEN DONALD TRUMP LEAVES OFFICE AND I THINK IT'S AN IMPOSSIBILITY TO REMOVE JOSH HAWLEY, BUT DON'T GET ME WRONG.

WHATEVER CAN BE DONE TO SILENCE HIM, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, REMOVING HIM FROM THE SENATE, WOULD BE FINE WITH ME.

BUT I THINK THAT'S JUST KIND OF RHETORICAL TALK RIGHT NOW, AND I -- I HOPE THIS IS AS BAD -- IT'S NOT BAD, BUT I HOPE THIS DOESN'T JUST LEAD TO A FLURRY OF JUST CRAZY STATEMENTS BY CORI BUSH AND I FEAR THAT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO LOSE ANY IMPACT ON WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY AND JOSH HAWLEY'S RESPONSIBILITY INTO IT.

IT'S A SHAME.

HE'S DISGRACED THIS STATE BEYOND ANY POLITICIAN POSSIBLY EVER, STAYING OR SITTING IN PRISON.

>> THAT'S SAYING A LOT.

>> NOWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT HE DID.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD DISENFRANCHISE THE MISSOURI VOTERS BY KICKING JOSH HAWLEY OUT OF THE SENATE AND I WOULD NEVER WANT TO CRIMINALIZE POLITICAL BEHAVIOR.

YOU KNOW, I HATED THAT "LOCK HER UP" STUFF, BUT I REMEMBER WHAT THE FRENCH DID TO COLLABORATORS AFTER THE WAR WHERE THEY SHAVED THEIR HEADS, AND I MEAN, I KNOW WE CAN'T DO IT, IT'S NOT PRACTICAL, BUT I'D LOVE TO SEE THESE PEOPLE WHO I THOUGHT WERE GUILTY OF SEDITION HAVE THEIR HEADS SHAVED.

IT MIGHT NOT BOTHER JOSH HAWLEY TO LOOK LIKE A SKINHEAD.

HE'D PROBABLY BE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN KICK ANYBODY OUT OF THE SENATE AND I THINK CORI BUSH IS GOING TOO FAR WITH THAT.

>> WELL, BILL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION WHETHER THE BARBERS LOBBY PUT BILL UP TO THIS.

I KNOW WORK HAS BEEN SLOW FOR THEM.

>> DOES HE KNOW ANY BARBERS?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF HE DOES.

FIRST OF ALL, I THINK CORI BUSH IS ALREADY ON THE -- ON CABLE NEWS A LOT AND FOR A FRESHMAN ON HER FIRST WEEK, SHE'S -- I THINK SHE SPEAKS, YOU KNOW, TRUTH TO POWER ABOUT IT.

I DON'T THINK -- YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH ALVIN AND BILL THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

I THINK A BIGGER QUESTION IS WHETHER -- AND I KNOW SHE'S GOING TO BE PART OF THIS, WHETHER THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A ONE-COUNT IMPEACHMENT, JUST STRICTLY LIMITED TO INCITING THE RIOT.

IT COULDN'T BE EVEN ABOUT THE PHONE CALL TO GEORGIA.

IT SHOULD JUST BE A ONE THING AND I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE WITH ALVIN, THAT COULD BE A VERY LONG 13 DAYS FOR THIS REPUBLIC AND I THINK WE'VE GOT THE BEST SOLUTION WOULD BE THE 25th AMENDMENT, WHICH DOESN'T ACTUALLY REMOVE THE PRESIDENT AS GREG WILLARD HAS POINTED OUT, LOCAL ATTORNEY HAS POINTED OUT, BUT -- >> YEAH, BUT I THINK THAT'S A DIFFERENT TOPIC THAN HAWLEY.

WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT.

>> BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT I THINK -- I THINK CORI BUSH IS AT LEAST -- I LOVE THE FACT SHE'S SPEAKING OUT.

>> WELL, I WILL SAY ABOUT JOSH HAWLEY, I WAS MOST DISTURBED AFTER THE RAMPAGE YESTERDAY AND SUPPORTERS OF HIS TOOK OVERth HOUSE AND THE FLOOR OF THE SENATE AND THE SPEAKER'S OFFICE, AND HE KNEW THAT THERE WAS NO CHANCE THAT A COMMISSION WOULD BE ESTABLISHED TO INVESTIGATE WHAT HE THOUGHT WERE IRREGULARITIES OR FRAUD IN THE ELECTION.

I WISH THAT HE, LIKE SENATOR LANGFORD AND OTHERS, HAD SAID, OKAY, GIVEN THE SITUATION, I AM NO LONGER GOING TO CHALLENGE THE ELECTORAL COUNT.

AFTER WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, I JUST FELT THAT HE REALLY LET THE STATE DOWN.

HE LET THE COUNTRY DOWN BY CONTINUING HIS RIDICULOUS CHAOTIC, OUT OF CONTROL EFFORT, AND IT WAS SO TONE-DEAF AS TO WHAT EXACTLY HAD HAPPENED ON CAPITOL HILL YESTERDAY.

I'M SORRY, WENDY.

>> WELL, HE IS -- HE IS DOUBLING DOWN JUST WITHIN THE LAST FIVE MINUTES, HE HAS SAID I WILL NEVER, EMPHATICALLY, YOU KNOW, EMPHATICALLY, I WILL NEVER APOLOGIZE.

AND THAT'S -- THAT POOL OF POPULISM IS REALLY KIND OF DANGEROUS FOR A POLITICIAN.

I MEAN, IT REALLY IS BECAUSE ONCE YOU DIP YOUR TOE INTO THE POOL, I MEAN, IT'S SORT OF LIKE THE SIREN SONG BECAUSE IT CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE A QUICK TRIP TO WHEREVER YOU WANT TO GO, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS THE RISK INVOLVED, AND THAT'S WHAT JOSH HAWLEY IS CONFRONTING RIGHT NOW IS THE RISK, AND THEY ARE SIZEABLE.

>> GOOD POINT.

SO WE GO TO BILL McCLELLAN NOW.

HE DID HELP OR HURT HIS CHANCES TO BE RE-ELECTED IN MISSOURI OR DID HE HELP OR HURT HIS CHANCES TO RUN FOR THE WHITE HOUSE IN 2024?

>> THE FIRST ONE IN MISSOURI, HE HELPED HIMSELF IMMENSELY.

I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LARGE SWATH OF MISSOURI THAT DOESN'T READ NEWSPAPERS, THAT GETS ALL THEIR NEWS FROM FOX, AND NOW THEY CONSIDER FOX TOO LIBERAL AND THEY'RE GETTING IT FROM EVEN FURTHER RIGHT-WING SOURCES, AND THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN AND JOSH HAWLEY IS STANDING UP FOR THEM AND SO JOSH HAWLEY HAS HELPED HIMSELF IN MISSOURI.

AS FAR AS NATIONALLY GOES, I DON'T THINK HE'S HELPED HIMSELF BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF -- YOU KNOW, HE'S VERY INTELLIGENT, VERY AMBITIOUS, AND NOT IN THAT ORDER.

BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER VERY INTELLIGENT, AMBITIOUS PEOPLE ON THE NATIONAL SCENE WHO ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE THIS AGAINST HIM.

I THINK OF LIKE NIKKI HALEY, TOM COTTON.

THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF RIGHT-WING PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO PAINT HIM AS A SHEER OPPORTUNIST AND POINT OUT THAT THIS POPULACE WENT TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL IN KANSAS CITY AND THEN WENT TO STANFORD AND WENT TO YALE, AND WHEN IT WAS TIME TO GET HIS FIRST JOB, HE WENT TO A LAW FIRM IN D.C. AND SO I -- I DON'T THINK HE'S HELPED HIMSELF NATIONALLY, BUT IN MISSOURI, BIG HELP.

>> I AGREE WITH BILL, BUT I HAVE A DIFFERENT -- I'M SORRY.

>> NO, NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, AGREED BECAUSE THE STATE THAT IT REALLY NEEDS TO WIN THE PRESIDENCY, WHICH BIDEN MANAGED TO DO THIS TIME, HE WOULD NEVER, YOU KNOW, WIN THE STATE IN AN ACTUAL ELECTION.

I DON'T THINK HE COULD WIN THEM IN A PRIMARY AS WELL.

SO -- AND THEN ONCE AGAIN, MISSOURI IS A LOSER BECAUSE QUIET AS IT WAS KEPT YESTERDAY, GEORGIA FLIPPED.

THE DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE SENATE.

WHAT COMMITTEES ARE JOSH HAWLEY -- BECAUSE SEVEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS VOTED FOR THAT NONSENSE.

THE REST OF THE REPUBLICANS, LOOKING AT THIS RIOT, AND THEY ALL LOOKED LIKE FOOLS, I MEAN, HE'S GOING TO BE ON THE GARBAGE DETAIL COMMITTEE.

THE PROUD SENATOR FROM MISSOURI IS ON THE SEWAGE PIPE COMMITTEE.

>> ALVIN, YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT I -- I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY A BAD THING BECAUSE I'M SO HAPPY THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE CONTROLLING THE SENATE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DIVIDED GOVERNMENT, BY THE WAY.

IT'S JUST GOING TO BE DIVIDED UP IN DIFFERENT WAYS BETWEEN THE PROGRESSIVES AND BIDEN AND -- WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE REAL DEBATE NOW IN THE SENATE, BUT TO BILL'S POINT, I AGREE WITH BILL WITH ONE ASTERISK.

IT WAS A BIG LOSS, BUT HE IS RIGHT.

BILL IS RIGHT THAT JOSH HAWLEY IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO BEAT IN MISSOURI.

THE BEST HOPE OF GETTING RID OF JOSH HAWLEY JUST WENT DOWN THE TUBES, THOUGH, BECAUSE I THINK, AS MUCH AS I SHOULD HAVE LEARNED AFTER 35 YEARS, 34 YEARS NOT TO EVER SAY NEVER, I THINK JOSH HAWLEY TOOK A VERY GOOD POSITION HE HAD AS A POSSIBLE CANDIDATE AND JUST DESTROYED IT IN 2024.

>> I AGREE.

>> GEORGE WILL LAST -- GO AHEAD, CHARLIE.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK HE HURT HIMSELF IN MISSOURI AS WELL.

I THINK THERE ARE A FAIR NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE APPALLED AT WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY.

>> I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE DOOR HERE.

>> GEORGE WILL WAS -- HE ONLY CALLED OUT THREE PEOPLE, AND OBVIOUSLY HE HAS NEVER BEEN A FAN OF DONALD TRUMP AND HE IS PERSONA NON GRATA WITH THE TRUMP SUPPORTERS BUT FOR HIM TO CALL OUT ONLY BY NAME, DONALD TRUMP, TED CRUZ, AND JOSH HAWLEY, SAYING THEY NEED TO WEAR THE SCARLET "S" OF SEDITION, I MEAN, THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT I THINK IS GOING TO FOLLOW JOSH HAWLEY AROUND BECAUSE HE DID LOOK FOR A WHILE TO BE RATHER CENTRIST.

>> EXACTLY, AND JOSH HAWLEY -- IF YOU CAN MAKE A VERB OUT OF IT, HE TED CRUZ'D HIMSELF.

TED CRUZ HAS BEEN KNOWN AS THE MOST UNPOPULAR MEMBER OF THE SENATE ALMOST UNIVERSALLY FOR YEARS, AND I'LL TELL YOU THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST UPSET WITH JOSH HAWLEY RIGHT NOW, NO MATTER WHAT CORI BUSH SAYS, ARE HIS FELLOW REPUBLICANS BECAUSE -- >> YES!

YES, THAT'S THE KEY!

>> WHO DID -- >> MAKING THEM DO THIS VOTE AND THEY HAVE GOT TO BE SO BITTER TOWARD HIM, AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I THINK TO JOSH HAWLEY AND TED CRUZ, THEY ARE ON -- KIND OF TO ALVIN'S POINT, BUT THEM ALONG WITH TOMMY TUBBERVILLE ON THE FOOTBALL COMMITTEE, BUT HE HAS PUT HIMSELF ON AN ISLAND HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE ON AND THE BAD NEWS FOR MISSOURI IS THAT MEANS HE'S PROBABLY GOING TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION IN 2024.

>> HE HAS TO ALIGN LIMBS WITH -- >> I DON'T THINK HE'S HURT HIMSELF IN MISSOURI AS WELL.

>> MAYBE NOT BECAUSE MEMORIES ARE SHORT, BUT I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FANS OF HIS RIGHT NOW, AND I'LL TELL YOU, JEAN EVANS -- I DON'T KNOW JEAN EVANS' POINT OF VIEW, BUT I WANT TO GO TO YOU ON THIS ONE.

SHE, OF COURSE, WAS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE MISSOURI STATE GOP AND THIS MORNING ON MY RADIO PROGRAM, SHE SAID SHE RESIGNED EARLY FROM OF THE TONE AND TENOR OF THE PHONE CALLS SHE WAS RECEIVING FROM REPUBLICANS, THEY WERE SO OUT THERE, ASKING HER WHY DON'T YOU FIGHT FOR THE PRESIDENT, WHY DON'T WE HAVE MILITARY ACTION, LET'S HAVE A COUP, LET'S GET BUSES AND GO TO D.C. AND -- SHE DIDN'T QUIT, SHE SAID, BECAUSE SHE WAS GETTING FLACK FROM THE DEMOCRATS.

IT WAS FROM PEOPLE WITHIN HER OWN PARTY, AND I THINK RIGHT NOW, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS REALLY A MESS AND IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT JEAN EVANS JUST SAID?

>> WELL, IT IS A MESS AND NOT QUITE -- I MEAN, WHEN YOU THINK OF THE BATTLE, THE ONGOING BATTLE THAT HAS OBVIOUSLY STOPPED AND CEASED FOR THE TIME BEING BETWEEN THE PROGRESSIVES AND THE MORE MAINSTREAM MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW IS LIVING WITH THE AFTERMATH OF DONALD TRUMP WHO, HAD THE PANDEMIC NOT COME ALONG -- I THINK IT'S A DANGEROUS GAME OF CHICKEN AND A LOT OF POLITICIANS PLAY IT, SOME TO THEIR STOCK STORY, OTHERS TO THEIR RUIN, AND I THINK THAT THEY KNEW THAT THIS WAS A POSSIBILITY, ALL OF THEM, WHETHER IT WAS MS. EVANS AT THE STATE LEVEL OR JOSH HAWLEY OR MITCH McCONNELL OR LINDSEY GRAHAM AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

IT'S THE GAME OF CHICKEN, AND I'D LOVE TO SAY THEY SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT AND DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT EARLIER, BUT THEY WERE HEDGING THEIR BETS.

>> WELL, I JUST -- FOR ONE, SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LONG TIME ON THE JOB, BUT ALL THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, AS LONG AS THIS HATRED, THIS VITRIOL WAS SPEWED OUT, AIMED AT DEMOCRATS, SHE DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AND THE SECOND SHE GOT A FACEFUL OF IT, SHE QUIT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I'M SORRY, I CAN'T FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.

>> I CAN'T EITHER.

IT'S LIKE SHE'S DRIVING A BUS, SHE SEES SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE ENGINE AND SHE SAYS, I THINK I'M GOING TO GET OFF AT THIS STOP.

AND EVERYBODY IS GOING, OH, THAT'S REALLY SMART OF YOU.

COME ON, SHE -- ALVIN, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

SHE WAS PART OF THE MESSAGING ABOUT ALL THE PRO TRUMP AND ALL THE VITRIOLIC, EVERYBODY THAT'S NOT AS REPUBLICAN, THE SOCIALISTS AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF, ALL THE VITRIOL ABOUT BLACK LIVES MATTER, ALL THE STUFF THEY'VE BEEN DOING AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE'S GETTING RELIGION BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE GETTING WORK UP.

I DON'T THINK SO.

>> I FEEL SORRY FOR HER.

>> I'M NOT CANONIZING THE WOMAN.

I'M JUST SAYING ALL POLITICIANS TAKE THIS GAMBLE AND IT HAS NOT PAID OFF.

>> HONESTLY, GUYS, I FOLLOWED HER.

I DON'T RECALL HER SPEWING VITRIOL AT ALL.

>> THAT'S THE SAME THING.

IF YOU WERE A REPUBLICAN, NATIONALLY OR WHATEVER, AND YOU DIDN'T TALK TO TAMP DOWN THIS STUFF, YOU ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN RUNNING THEIR MOUTHS FOR FOUR YEARS.

>> THE GUY AT THE TOP DOESN'T LISTEN TO ANYBODY WHO TELLS HIM TO TAMP DOWN.

>> LET ME DEFEND HER.

WHAT SHE WAS DOING WAS GETTING CANDIDATES ELECTED STATEWIDE.

IT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING REALLY TO DO WITH TRUMP.

>> BUT WHAT RACES -- >> SO IT'S PERFECTLY ALL RIGHT.

I'M RUNNING AGAINST WHOEVER IT IS.

THEY ARE A SOCIALIST, THEY ARE THIS, THEY ARE THAT.

WHERE WAS SHE AT TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

LET'S QUIT THROWING AROUND THIS SOCIALISM AND MAKING PEOPLE -- >> OCASIO-CORTEZ IS A SOCIALIST.

SHE'S -- >> HOW ABOUT MISSOURI?

I'M TALKING ABOUT HER IN MISSOURI AND OUR STATE IS AN EMBARRASSMENT RIGHT NOW, WENDY, AND FOR HER TO SAY I CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

YOU ALL SET THE STATE ON FIRE AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING I CAN'T BELIEVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CAN'T GET HERE THIS FAST.

>> I FEEL SORRY FOR HER AND I THOUGHT THE REPUBLICANS, THEIR ADS PRETTY MUCH LOOKED LIKE -- THEIR ATTACK ADS PRETTY MUCH LOOKED LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC ATTACK ADS.

I REMEMBER WHEN ANNE WAGNER WAS SAYING JILL SHUCK IS TOO RADICAL FOR MISSOURI.

IT WAS EXACTLY WHAT DICK GEPHARDT USED TO SAY WHAT WHOEVER HE RAN AGAINST.

THERE WOMAN WAS BEING A GOOD SOLDIER FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND NOW THEY'VE TURN ON HER.

I FEEL BAD FOR HER.

>> I DON'T.

I THINK ALVIN IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IT'S ONE THING TO WORK IN THE PARTY.

SHE WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF -- CHAIRPERSON OF THE PARTY AT THE TIME.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN THIS VITRIOLIC AND I UNDERSTAND -- >> IN MISSOURI?

IN MISSOURI?

>> YES, ALL OVER MISSOURI.

FLY GOD, YES.

>> WHAT'S VITRIOLIC THIS YEAR?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'VE BEEN -- AND AGAIN, I'LL GRANT YOU IT'S PART OF THE NATIONAL -- >> GALLOWAY WAS JUST YOUR BASIC DEMOCRATIC-REPUBLICAN PLAYBOOK.

>> WHAT ABOUT NICOLE GALLOWAY WAS VITRIOLIC?

I DON'T RECALL -- RAY, YOU WRITE SOME PUNCHY COLUMNS FOR THE RIVERFRONT TIMES -- >> I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

>> BUT SPEAKING OF COLUMNISTS, I WANT YOU, BILL McCLELLAN, TO SAY A GOOD WORD OR TWO ABOUT JERRY BERGER WHO WE LOST THIS WEEK.

I THOUGHT THAT HE WAS A GUY WHO IN HIS THREE-DOT JOURNALISM OFTEN BROKE THREE OR FOUR HARD STORIES IN A MORNING.

>> NOBODY WORKED HARDER THAN JERRY BERGER.

I WOULD WRITE THREE OR FOUR COLUMNS A WEEK, BUT ONE OR TWO OF THEM COULD BE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT JERRY NEEDED ALL THESE ITEMS AND HE WAS NEVER NOT WORKING.

ALSO, HE WAS FUN TO BE AROUND BECAUSE HE WOULD NEVER SAY I DON'T KNOW.

I COULD CHECK, JERRY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS AND HE'D SAY SOMETHING VERY DEFINITIVELY AND IT MIGHT NOT BE RIGHT, AND HE WOULD SOMETIMES COME UP TO ME AND BE LIKE, BILL, I HEARD SOMETHING AND I THOUGHT OF YOU AND I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ANYBODY.

I'D SWEAR AND GO SURE AND HE'D TELL ME SOMETHING AND TEN MINUTES LATER, I'D SEE HARPER BOND AND SAY I GOT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ANYBODY.

HE'D BE LIKE, JERRY TOLD ME THAT YESTERDAY.

HE LIVED TO GOSSIP.

HE BROKE A LOT OF STORIES AND HE WAS FUN TO READ AND THERE WERE TIMES IT WAS IRRESPONSIBLE, BUT HE ADDED A LOT TO THE NEWSPAPER.

>> HE SURE DID.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT AND MAY HE REST IN PEACE.

OUR THOUGHTS ARE WITH ALL OF HIS FRIENDS AT THIS TIME.

RAY, I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED CORI BUSH EARLIER.

SHE WAS ON MSNBC.

YOU THINK SHE'S OFF TO A PRETTY GOOD START, AND BY THE WAY, HER PREVIOUSLY, WILLIAM L. LACY CLAY IS GOING TO BE WITH US FOR THE SECOND HALF OF THIS PROGRAM ON DONNYBROOK NEXT UP, ALONG WITH ANOTHER RETIRED CONGRESSMAN JIM SHIMKUS, SO I HOPE EVERYONE JOINS FOR US THAT.

BUT YOU THINK REPRESENTATIVE BUSH HAS STARTED OUT VERY WELL, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YEAH, SHE'S GOING TO SPEAK HER MIND AND PEOPLE WILL SAY SOME OF THE THINGS -- SHE'S JUST VERY UNFILTERED ABOUT WHAT SHE THINKS AND I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

IT'S A DIFFERENT STYLE THAN LACY AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO COMPARE THE TWO NECESSARILY, BUT I THINK SHE'S GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION FOR A FRESHMAN IN CONGRESS AND I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT THE NEXT 13 DAYS ARE PERILOUS.

YOU KNOW, RIGHT BEFORE WE CAME ON THE AIR, IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT DONALD TRUMP ISN'T GOING TO GO TO CAMP DAVID ALL OF A SUDDEN, AND THAT'S A REALLY CONCERNING SIGN THAT THESE 13 DAYS ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND I KNOW WE WENT THROUGH THIS WHOLE IMPEACHMENT THING, BUT I COULD SEE HER BEING ONE OF THE PEOPLE PUSHING FOR KIND OF AN INSTANT IMPEACHMENT OVER WHAT HAPPENED, HOPEFULLY OVER NOTHING BUT WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY BECAUSE I THINK IT'S PROBABLY IMPORTANT TO PUT PEOPLE ON RECORD, THEY CAN DO THAT OVERNIGHT AND THE VOTE COULD BE OVERNIGHT, AND THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER HE POSES A DANGER TO OUR COUNTRY OVER THE NEXT 13 DAYS BECAUSE OF HIS MENTAL STATE.

AND ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SAY THAT'S A LUDICROUS PROPOSITION HASN'T BEEN WATCHING.

>> I WISH CORI BUSH WOULD JUST KIND OF HOLD HER FIRE A LITTLE BIT AND LET MORE EXPERIENCED AND COOLER HEADS BE IN CHARGE OF STUFF, AND I KNOW THAT IT MUST BE REALLY INTOXICATING TO HAVE ALL THESE NATIONAL PEOPLE ASKING YOU YOUR OPINION, BUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF HER STUFF JUST SEEMS A LITTLE BIT -- >> I WOULD JUST SAY -- >> -- OVERDONE TO ME.

>> -- RIGHT NOW THE OTHER TEAM IS GETTING BEATEN, OKAY?

YOU KNOW, THE OTHER TEAM IS AGAINST THE ROPES, ALL RIGHT?

RIGHT NOW, DON'T GET SUCKER PUNCHED BY SOMETHING DEMOCRATS DO.

NOW, I AGREE WITH YOU, RAY.

I THINK THE MAN IS COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS MIND AND I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN SITUATIONS LIKE THAT, THERE IS SOME KIND OF PROTOCOL WHERE THE GOVERNMENT KNOWS THE PRESIDENT IS NUTS, JUST -- WE CAN HANDLE THIS.

HOW, IF IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO AND IF WE HAD TO ANYWAY OUT TWO YEARS AND ALL THERE WAS GOING ON, THAT'S ANOTHER THING, BUT JUST DON'T DO WHAT HE TELLS YOU TO DO.

LET'S TRY THAT FOR ONCE.

NOW, HE COMES ON NATIONAL TV AND SAYS BURN IT DOWN, TEAR UP THE COUNTRY, THEN ARREST HIM AND PUT HIM IN JAIL.

>> I WOULD SAY WITH REPRESENTATIVE BUSH, I SAW HER ON MSNBC EARLIER THIS WEEK AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT INCREASING BROADBAND ACCESS.

I THOUGHT, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

I THINK REPUBLICANS WILL SUPPORT THAT TOO BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT KIDS STUDYING AT HOME NOW AND YOU WILL FOREVER, I GUESS, AND THAT WILL REALLY EQUALIZE, LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD AND FIND EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE, AND I LOVE THAT, BUT THEN CASEY FROM CHANNEL 5, CASEY NOLEN HAD A WONDERFUL INTERVIEW WITH HER, BUT SHE ALSO SAID IN THIS INTERVIEW, YOU KNOW, I WAS IN FERGUSON AND I STARED DOWN TANKS AND I DODGED RUBBER BULLETS.

WELL, TRUTH BE TOLD, THERE WERE NO TANKS IN FERGUSON.

SHE'S USING VERBAL SHORTHAND THERE TO DESCRIBE ARMORED VEHICLES AND THERE WERE TECHNICALLY NOT RUBBER BULLETS.

I MEAN, THERE WERE PROJECT TILES WHICH COULD HURT YOU, BUT RUBBER BULLETS CAN BE DEADLY AFTER WE KNOW AFTER THE RED SOX IN 2004, AND I THINK IF SHE'S A REPRESENTATIVE TALKING ABOUT DEFUNDING THE RESOURCES OF THE POLICE, SHE SHOULD SPEAK WITH PRECISION AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE POLICE HAVE -- >> OH, COME ON, CHARLIE, REALLY?

>> I DO.

SHE'S A MEMBER OF CONGRESS NOW AND DON'T TELL ME THERE WERE TANKS IN FERGUSON BECAUSE THERE WERE NOT.

>> I HATE DOING A NO-TANKS JOKE, BUT -- I MEAN, COME ON, THAT'S A -- I THINK TO ARGUE THE WHOLE -- >> CHARLIE, I GET YOUR POINT.

IT'S TIME, YOU CANNOT -- WHEN THE OTHER SIDE STARTS TO TALK CRAZY HYPERBOLE AND WE'VE HAD FOUR YEARS OF IT, OKAY?

IT'S JUST DISGUSTING, BUT DON'T FALL INTO THAT SAME TRAP.

ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, BE AS CLOSE TO THE TRUTH AS YOU CAN AND THAT SERVES EVERYBODY BEST.

I THINK IT WAS JUST A SLIP OF THE TONGUE, A MISTAKE.

>> I'M SORRY F I'M LOOKING AT AN ARMORED VEHICLE AND CALL IT A TANK, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE POINT.

I DIDN'T LIKE IT WHEN SHE USED THE PHRASE "DEFUND THE MILITARY" RIGHT AWAY.

THERE'S GOING TO BE TIMES SHE'S GOING TO SAY STUFF, BUT SHE'S SPEAKING FROM THE HEART AND I'M TELLING YOU, SHE'S GOING TO BE A PERSON OF SOME NOTE AND I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

ALVIN IS TALKING ABOUT OUR REPRESENTATION IN THE SENATE AND I UNDERSTAND THAT POINT, BUT I THINK SHE'S GOING TO -- SHE DEFINITELY HAS A SENSE THAT SHE'S SPEAKING FOR ST. LOUIS.

>> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, ALVIN BRK THE ROLLOUT OF THE VACCINE AND IT'S BEEN SLOW.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS AT ONE OF THE LAST DONNYBROOKS BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR WHERE WE WERE HOPEFUL THAT THINGS WOULD GET GOING.

MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ROLLED IT OUT DURING THE HOLIDAY WEEK, BUT RIGHT NOW, THE POST-DISPATCH IS INTERVIEWING HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO GET IT.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S JUST NOT WORKING.

>> I'M TELLING YOU, THERE GOES RIGHT BACK UP TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND GOVERNORS LIKE PARSON WHERE SO BUSY FIGHTING THIS NONEXISTENT THING, THAT COVID JUST GOT PUSH TO THE BACK BURNER.

IF IT'S SLOW AND YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT, HEY, POINT A, WE GOT TO GET THE VACCINE TO THE PEOPLE.

POINT B, WE GOT TO DO IT FASTER.

IN THE NEXT 12 HOURS, I WANT LITTLE THINGS TELLING ME EXACTLY HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT.

GROWN-UPS ARE COMING BACK IN TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND I THINK BY VALENTINE'S DAY, WE'LL BE PAST WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT THIS POINT BASED ON WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SAYING, BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN LED BY JUST A MAN THAT'S OUT OF HIS MIND.

>> OKAY, NO ARGUMENT THERE, I GUESS, FROM THE PANEL.

>> I DON'T HAVE GREAT DEAL OF CONFIDENCE RIGHT NOW IN THIS -- YOU KNOW, DR. MIMI BULL HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT, MADE HEADLINES BEFORE, WHO'S A PROVIDER, AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS IN THE CITY WHO DON'T HAPPEN TO BE AFFILIATED WITH MAJOR HOSPITALS ARE NOT ABLE TO GET VACCINATED, AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT TO ALVIN'S POINT, THE MISSOURI DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SENIOR SERVICES DOES NOT INSPIRE A LOT OF CONFIDENCE IN PEOPLE RIGHT NOW.

>> WELL, BUT IT'S NOT JUST MISSOURI, RAY, AND I -- >> I AGREE, I AGREE.

>> AND I THINK THAT CHARACTERIZATION IS UNFAIR BECAUSE IT'S ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> SURE.

>> AND I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT, ALVIN.

I HOPE IF PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN, IF HE DOES ENACT A MASK MANDATE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S TOOTHLESS, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF -- I MEAN, JUST CEREMONIALLY IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I THINK.

>> OKAY, FOLKS.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR THIS FIRST HALF OF OUR FIRST DONNYBROOK FOR 2021, BUT WE ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO STAY TUNED BECAUSE ON DONNYBROOK NEXT UP, JUST MOMENTS FROM NOW, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO TWO FORMER MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE ST. LOUIS AREA.

WE'LL TALK TO JOHN SHIMKUS, REPUBLICAN, NOW RETIRED, FROM ILLINOIS, AND LACY CLAY, DEMOCRAT NOW RETIRED FROM MISSOURI.

SO THAT'S TO FOLLOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, BUT DON'T GO AWAY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NINE NETWORK.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

THIS IS THE PORTION WHERE WE TALK TO NEWS MAKERS AND THOSE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY FORMED A SHARED POLICY, CREATED THE LAWS THAT RULE THE LAND, AND TODAY WE HAVE TWO RETIRED LAWMAKERS WITH, JOSH SHIMKUS, REPUBLICAN FROM ILLINOIS, NOW RETIRED, AND LACY CLAY, DEMOCRAT FROM MISSOURI, NOW RETIRED.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON THE NINE NETWORK.

>> THANK FOR HAVING US.

>> YEAH, THANKS, CHARLIE.

>> WELL, CONGRESSMAN CLAY, I'LL START WITH YOU.

WE'D ALSO LIKE TO HEAR YOU, CONGRESSMAN SHIMKUS, ON THE SAME QUESTION.

JUST YOUR GENERAL THOUGHTS ON WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY AS SUPPORTERS OF THE PRESIDENT STORMED THE CAPITOL WHERE YOU WORKED FOR THE PAST TWO DECADES.

>> WELL, I'LL GO FIRST, CHARLIE, AND YOU KNOW I'M -- I WAS PRESENT AND I THINK JOHN WAS PRESENT ON 9/11 IN 2001, AND ON THAT DAY, WE SAW THE PENTAGON GO UP IN SMOKE.

WE WERE RUSHED OFF OF THE CAPITOL GROUNDS, AND IT WAS A DAY THAT I WOULD NEVER FORGET.

BUT YESTERDAY, WE WITNESSED DOMESTIC TERRORISM, AND INCITED BY A PRESIDENT WHO STOKED THE FLAMES OF HATE, WHO STOKED THE LIES ABOUT VOTER FRAUD AND SENT AN ANGRY MOB TO THE U.S. CAPITOL TO STOP THE PROCEDURES THAT WERE HAPPENING IN THE U.S. CONGRESS.

IN OTHER WORDS, TO STOP THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES.

AND WHAT WE WITNESSED WAS A SHAME.

IT WAS A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY AS FAR AS THIS COUNTRY IS CONCERNED, AND THIS ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF WHAT HAPPENED.

>> CONGRESSMAN SHIMKUS?

>> YEAH, IT'S INTERESTING LACY BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE I USE THAT EXACT EXAMPLE IN SOME MEDIA I DID TODAY.

9/11, I THINK FLIGHT 93 WAS HEADED TO THE CAPITOL.

IF YOU'VE FLOERN INTO WASHINGTON, YOU KNOW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE IS HARD TO SEE.

YOU JUST GO DOWN THE MALL AND YOU CAN HIT THE CAPITOL, AND I REALLY -- FLIGHT 93, TODD BEAMER, PATRIOT, AND WE HAD FOREIGN ADVERSARIES, RIGHT?

AL-QAEDA WHO HIJACKED THE PLANE.

WHAT MADE YESTERDAY SO SAD AND DISAPPOINTING AND WAS THAT THESE ARE OUR OWN PEOPLE.

THESE ARE U.S. CITIZENS THAT ATTACKED, REALLY, WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER THE SACRED TEMPLE OF DEMOCRACY, AND RUNNING WILD, REALLY MOCKING THE ELECTED LEADERS OF OUR COUNTRY, IT'S THE WORST THING I'VE SEEN IN MY 24 YEARS, AND I AGREE.

I MEAN, IT TOOK ME ABOUT FOUR DAYS TO SAY, OKAY, THE PRESIDENT WON.

I GOT ATTACKED, BUT NOW I LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, A BRILLIANT GUY, AND, YOU KNOW, HE -- HE DID THIS.

HE INTENTIONALLY CONTINUE TO INFLAME THIS DEBATE AND MARCHED THOSE RADICALS UP TO THE HILL TO DO THEIR DIRTY DEED.

I'M JUST DISGUSTED.

>> WENDY?

>> THERE HAVE BEEN STORIES, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE STILL IN THE VERY EARLY HOURS OF THIS STORY AND REPORTING THIS STORY.

A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CAPITOL POLICE, AND I THOUGHT THE TWO OF YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE IN TERMS OF YOUR VIEWS OF -- WAS THERE SOME TYPE OF BREAKDOWN?

I MEAN, THERE WAS RIGHT-WING CHATTER FOR DAYS APPARENTLY IN SITES MOST OF US HAVE NO IDEA -- WE WOULDN'T KNOW HOW TO GET THERE IF WE HAD A MAP, BUT ON THE INTERNET, THAT PEOPLE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, SO YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED AN INCREASED POLICE PRESENCE.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE CAPITOL POLICE YESTERDAY?

CONGRESSMAN CLAY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START?

>> SURE.

ONE OF MY SECURITY SOURCES WHO WAS IN ON A MEETING ABOUT SECURING THE CAPITOL ON MONDAY INDICATED TO ME THAT THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS AND THE CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF WERE VERY LACKADAISICAL, NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN ADEQUATELY SECURING THE PERIMETER OF THE CAPITOL.

IT WAS VERY STRANGE TO ME THAT -- TO HEAR THAT FROM SOMEONE ON THE INSIDE WHO SHARED THAT WITH ME YESTERDAY AFTER ALL OF THE CHAOS HAD OCCURRED, AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE VIDEO, YOU SEE THAT REALLY, THESE RIOTERS WERE TREATED WITH KID GLOVES AND IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THE POLICE WERE ORDERED TO STAND DOWN.

NOW, I CAN'T VERIFY THAT, BUT I'M SURE THERE WILL BE AN INVESTIGATION TO SEE JUST WHAT OCCURRED AND WHY.

>> YEAH, I'LL JUST SAY, OBVIOUSLY A FAILURE.

I DON'T KNOW WHY.

I MEAN, FOR PEOPLE TO BE IN THE CAPITOL UNESCORTED, THAT'S BY DEFINITION A FAILURE.

THERE WILL BE AN INVESTIGATION.

THOSE WHO ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN AND THOSE WHO MAY HAVE STOOD DOWN, I WOULD PRAYERFULLY HOPE THAT THEY WOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

IT'S JUST ACCEPTABLE AND IT WAS, AGAIN, BAD -- THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE -- I CAN UNDERSTAND, THE ONLY OTHER CONCERN IS IF YOU BROUGHT THE NATIONAL GUARD SURROUNDING THE CAPITAL, THEN YOU HAVE UNIFORMED -- I MEAN, MILITARY-LOOKING GUYS THERE AND YOU GET INTO ALL THE POSSE COMATITAS AND THEY WEREN'T PREPARED AS A CITY.

THEY HAD TO CALL THE CAPITOL POLICE -- THE D.C. POLICE ARE USED TO DEALING WITH THESE LARGE CROWDS.

THE CAPITOL POLICE WERE NOT, BUT THEY HAD TO CALL IN THE D.C. POLICE TO HELP THEM WITH THIS MOB WHEN IT STARTED GETTING OUT OF CONTROL.

>> BILL?

>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NICE TO SEE BOTH YOU FELLOWS.

A QUICK QUESTION FOR EACH OF YOU.

FIRST FOR YOU, JOHN.

YOUR SUCCESSOR, MARY MILLER, WHOSE HUSBAND IS A LONG TIME POLITICIAN IN ILLINOIS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, GOT IN A LITTLE BIT OF HOT WATER TUESDAY, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, WHEN SHE WAS SPEAKING AT A RALLY IN D.C. AND QUOTED ADOLPH HITLER, SAID THAT ADOLPH HITLER WAS RIGHT ABOUT AT LEAST ONE THING, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER CONTROLS THE YOUTH CONTROLS THE FUTURE.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID, THIS IS REALLY INAPPROPRIATE, TALKING ABOUT ADOLPH HITLER.

AND I WANT TO -- WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THAT?

I MEAN, YOU WERE ALWAYS PRETTY CAREFUL WITH YOUR WORDS AND YOU'RE A WEST POINT GUY.

I MEAN, I CAN REMEMBER, YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN CAREFUL WITH YOUR WORDS.

WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR SUCCESSOR QUOTING ADOLPH HITLER?

>> YES, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN CAREFUL, ESPECIALLY AROUND YOU, BILL, SO I LEARNED THAT.

>> I CAN REMEMBER, JOHN.

>> BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I'VE ANSWERED THIS QUESTION TWICE TODAY.

ONE WAS REAL EARLY IN THE MORNING ON A STATION IN CARTERVILLE, ILLINOIS, WJTF, AND THIS IS THE WAY I ANSWERED IT.

I WOULD NEVER QUOTE ADOLPH HITLER.

I WOULD NEVER, WITH MY BACKGROUND IN EUROPE AND, YOU KNOW, HAVING GONE TO THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM AND GOING TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS, I DON'T CARE IF HE SAID HIS MOM WAS GOOD, I WOULD NEVER QUOTE HIM.

WHAT I DID SAY WAS, TO MAKE HER POINT, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN BEST TO QUOTE PROVERBS 22:6.

TRAIN A CHILD IF THE WAY THEY SHOULD GO AND WHEN THEY'RE OLD, THEY WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT.

THAT'S A BETTER THING TO TALK ABOUT TRAINING CHILDREN THAN QUOTING ADOLPH HITLER.

>> OKAY, AND LACY, MY QUESTION TO YOU, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE JUST ELECTED -- WHAT'S JOE BIDEN, 78 YEARS OLD?

>> YES.

>> AND PUT NANCY PELOSI, RE-ELECTED HER, AND I KNOW YOU SUPPORTED NANCY PELOSI IN THE PAST, BUT ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME THAT THE DEMOCRATS TRY TO GET A LITTLE YOUNGER?

>> WELL, LET ME SAY THIS.

IN MY INSTANCE, BILL, THE TORCH HAS BEEN PASSED TO A YOUNGER GENERATION AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY YESTERDAY WAS ABOUT, TOO.

YOU MUST BE ABLE TO TRANSITION.

WHEN THE PEOPLE DECIDE THAT, THAT YOU ARE NO -- YOUR SERVICES MORE LONGER WARRANTED AND THEY VOTE YOU OUT, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE AN ORDERLY AND PEACEFUL TRANSITION, AND I THINK -- I MEAN, THAT'S THE POINT I'VE TRIED TO MAKE BY REACHING OUT TO MY SUCCESSOR, CONGRESSWOMAN CORI BUSH, AND HELPING HER IN TRANSITION AND TALKING TO HER.

BUT IT ALSO GOES TO SHOW YOU WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CASE OF SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP, THAT YOU -- THE PEOPLE DON'T -- THE VOTERS DON'T ADEQUATELY VET SOMEONE.

THEY PUT IN SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER HAD EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENT, WHO DOESN'T REALLY APPRECIATE GOVERNING OR MEETING IN THE MIDDLE IN ORDER TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

AND SO -- AND SOMETIMES THE VOTERS GET WHAT THEY DESERVE, AND IN THIS INSTANCE, I THINK THEY DID.

THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ADEQUATELY VET TRUMP OR THEY JUST COULDN'T BRING THEMSELVES TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

AND SO IN THE CASE OF PELOSI AND SCHUMER AND CLYBURN, UNTIL THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS DETERMINES THEY ARE TOO OLD, THEN I THINK THEY ARE THE BEST FIT AT THIS TIME FOR THE U.S. HOUSE AND SENATE AS WELL AS BIDEN.

IT IS A VERY CAPABLE VICE PRESIDENT ABOUT TO STEP IN THAT CAN FILL THOSE SHOES ALSO IN THE PERSON OF KAMALA HARRIS.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU, LACY.

>> RAY?

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE GOT A LONG HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY OF NOT CRIMINALIZING OUR POLITICAL OPPONENTS.

MY OWN BIAS IS I THOUGHT JERRY FORD'S PARDON OF RICHARD NIXON, FOR EXAMPLE, IN 1974 WAS AN ACT OF GREAT STATESMANSHIP BECAUSE I WAS WEARING A DIFFERENT UNIFORM AT THE TIME, BUT MY QUESTION FOR YOU BOTH IS, IN AS MUCH AS IN THE PAST WEEK DONALD TRUMP HAS CERTAINLY HAD PROBABLE CAUSE OF TWO VERY SERIOUS CRIMES, ONE BEING ATTEMPTING KIND OF MOB-LIKE WITH A REPUBLICAN TO INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME OF GEORGIA'S ELECTION, AND THEN THE SECOND WAS ARGUABLY INCITING NOT ONLY A RIOT, BUT AN ACT OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

NOW, THOSE ARE BOTH JUST PROBABLE CAUSE.

SHOULD -- DO YOU THINK EITHER THEY SHOULD -- WILL OR SHOULD PROCEED WITH PROSECUTION OF DONALD TRUMP STARTING, SAY, JANUARY 21st?

>> JOHN, YOU TAKE IT FIRST.

>> THANKS.

[ LAUGHTER ] I THINK THE CURRENT DEBATE IS WHETHER WE EXERCISE THE 25th AMENDMENT OR GO THROUGH IMPEACHMENT PROCESSES.

IMPEACHMENT WOULD TAKE TOO LONG, THAT'S KIND OF OFF THE TABLE.

WHEN I GOT ASKED ABOUT THE 25th AMENDMENT TODAY, I KIND OF STUMBLED AROUND BECAUSE I THINK THAT HAS SOME LEGS.

I THINK JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS GUY WILL DO IN HIS LAST COUPLE DAYS IN OFFICE.

THE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DOING BLANKET PARDONS OF ALL THESE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S THE IMMEDIACY.

POLITICAL RETRIBUTION IS WHAT YOU SEE IN THIRD-WORLD COUNTRIES WHEN THE OUT PARTY IT DOES, AND I EXPERIENCED IT WITH ALL MY TRAVELS IN FOLLOWING THESE COUNTRIES, AND I WOULD SAY THIS, THAT THERE IS BONA FIDE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, HE SHOULD BE HELD TO THE RULE OF LAW.

BUT FOR POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY, YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE THIS GUY A POPULAR TIR.

WE WANT HIM -- A MARTYR.

WE WANT HIM TO GO AWAY.

>> AS A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT, I AGREE WITH JOHN.

THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS WILL TAKE A WHILE, AND THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT IT WILL -- THAT THEY CAN GET TO THE TWO-THIRDS NECESSARY IN THE SENATE TO ADD TO -- TO TRY HIM AND FIND HIM GUILTY.

THE 25th AMENDMENT IS A MORE ATTRACTIVE OPTION AND APPARENTLY SPEAKER PELOSI WANTS TO PURSUE DUAL TRACKS HERE.

BUT TODAY, I JUST HEARD THAT THE ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA IS ALSO LOOKING AT HOLDING THE PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE AS SOMEONE WHO MAY HAVE COMMITTED THE CRIME OF INCITING A RIOT YESTERDAY.

SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE GOING FORWARD HOW THEY DEAL WITH THIS PRESIDENT'S ROLE IN YESTERDAY'S RIOT.

>> LACY, DURING YOUR LONG POLITICAL CAREER, I KNOW YOU NEVER THOUGHT THAT YOU WOULD SEE A BLACK MAN AND A JEWISH MAN ELECTED INTO THE SENATE IN GEORGIA ON THE SAME DAY A CONFEDERATE FLAG WAS GETTING PARADED THROUGH THE SENATE HALLS, BUT I'M INTERESTED IN WHAT -- I'M SURE IN THE LAST, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN 24 HOURS, YOU'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING CONGRESSMAN SHIMKUS, BUT WHAT IS THE FEELING YOU ARE GETTING, AND I REALLY WANT TO ASK, HAVE YOU SPOKE WITH ROY BLUNT SINCE ALL OF THIS HAPPENED, BUT WHAT IS THE SENSE YOU'RE GETTING FROM THE, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW?

>> I HAD NOT PHONE TO SENATOR BLUNT, AND I'M SURE HE'S HAD HIS HANDS FULL IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, ALVIN, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE SENSE I'M GETTING FROM MY FORMER COLLEAGUES IS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN LET DOWN BY THIS PRESIDENT.

THEY HAVE -- AND EVEN TO HEAR PEOPLE LIKE LINDSEY GRAHAM ADMIT IT AFTER THESE FOUR YEARS, THEY NOW HAVE BUYERS REMORSE, AND THEY ARE READY FOR THIS NIGHTMARE TO END.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF SENSE THAT I GET FROM MY FORMER COLLEAGUES, BE THEY DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE WAY YOU TRANSFER POWER IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE LIKE THIS.

IT IS A TOTAL REJECTION OF ALL OF OUR NORMS, ALL OF OUR PROCESSES IN HISTORY, AND IT JUST IS A TRAGEDY, AND THAT'S WHY I CAN HEAR IT IN JOHN'S VOICE, IS THAT WE ARE IN DANGER AT THIS POINT IN OUR HISTORY BECAUSE WITH 13 MORE DAYS TO GO IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT TO EXPECT OR WHAT WILL OCCUR OVER THOSE ALMOST NEXT TWO WEEKS.

>> CONGRESSMAN SHIMKUS, I DOUBT HE'LL DO IT, BUT IF JOSH HAWLEY CALLS YOU ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL HIM?

WHAT WOULD BE THE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE YOU WOULD GIVE HIM?

>> I WOULD TELL HIM THAT HE WAS PART OF THIS, THAT I THINK -- CLAIRE WAS A LITTLE MORE UP FRONT THAN WHAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN, BUT THERE'S CULPABILITY.

CHARLIE AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE TIMES, WHAT'S DRIVING -- CHARLIE FOLLOWED ME PRETTY CLOSELY, HE KNOWS I TRIED TO MOVE AWAY TACTFULLY FROM THE PRESIDENT, BUT SOME PEOPLE WERE ALL IN.

LACY KNOWS.

THEY DRANK THE KOOL-AID.

AND THEN SOME, YOU KNOW, WHY WERE THEY STILL ON BOARD.

THEY WERE STILL ON BOARD BECAUSE OF THE BASE.

TRUMP IS NOT A REPUBLICAN.

HE'S A POPULIST.

HE HAS MORE DEMOCRATIC POLICIES THAN REPUBLICAN POLICIES.

HE IN ESSENCE, YOU KNOW, USURPED OUR PARTY AND WHEN YOU GET INTO OUR PLACE, LACY KNOWS IT, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE AND POSITION AND THEY KIND OF SOLD THEMSELF OFF, AND SO I THINK -- AND THIS IS IN MY TEXTBOOK, I'M TEACHING CLASS EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

AND POLITICIANS USE THE MOMENT OF TIME FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL SELF-INTEREST, AND I WOULD SAY JOSH HAWLEY DID THE SAME THING.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> CONGRESSMAN SHIMKUS, I THINK YOU PARTED WAYS WITH THE PRESIDENT OVER FOREIGN POLICY IN SYRIA.

YOU MADE THAT OFFICIAL DIVORCE MORE THAN A YEAR OR SO AGO IF I RECALL, BUT I DO WANT TO JUMP IN HERE BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY CAN SEE EVERY VIDEO, BUT I DID SEE SOME VIDEOS TODAY WHERE THE CAPITOL POLICE WERE FIGHTING A STORMING MOB VERY VIOLENTLY, THAT THEY WERE COMPLETELY OVERPOWERED, BUT I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IN ALL INSTANCES THEY WERE OPENING THE DOOR AND WELCOMING THE PMOB.

I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT, AND I THINK IN THE DAYS AND MONTHS TO COME, WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AND WHY, BUT LET ME ASK YOU, WHEN YOU SEE THESE GUYS WHO WALKED IN AND SAT IN NANCY PELOSI'S CHAIR OR WHEN THEY WERE RUMMAGING THROUGH THE DESKS OF THE SENATE, NOW, NONE OF THEM WERE WEARING MASKS, OF COURSE, SO LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM RELATIVE RELATIVELY EASILY.

HOW MUCH, JOHN, DO YOU THINK THE FBI OR OTHERS -- HOW MUCH RESOURCES SHOULD THEY PUT IN TO TRACKING THESE PEOPLE DOWN AND THEN SERIOUSLY PROSECUTING THEM SO THAT THEY FACE SOME TIME IN THE GRAY BAR MOTEL?

>> ALL HANDS ON DECK, 100%.

THEY SHOULD BE ALL IN.

WE'RE A COUNTRY OF THE RULE OF LAW, AND I THINK MY COLLEAGUES ARE, ON BOTH SIDES, OBVIOUSLY THE DEMOCRATS, BUT MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES, THEY DON'T WANT TO TOLERATE THIS.

AS LACY SAID, THOSE WHO ARE STILL STRONG TRUMP SUPPORTERS OBVIOUSLY FEEL BETRAYED AND IT WAS THOSE FOLKS WHO GOT INTO THE CAPITOL THAT REALLY TURNED THIS THING INTO A FARCE.

LET THE OBJECTIONS OCCUR, LET THE VOTES OCCUR.

I THINK WE WERE ALL EXPECTING THAT TO HAPPEN, AND THEN GET TO RESOLUTION.

I HOPE THEY THROW THEM IN THE CLINK AND THROW AWAY THE KEY.

I MEAN, I AM JUST SO DISGUSTED.

>> LACY?

CONGRESSMAN CLAY?

>> LOOKS LIKE HE MUST HAVE FROZEN UP.

>> HE MIGHT HAVE DONE THAT.

OKAY, HE'LL BE BACK.

WENDY, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

>> I DO.

LOOKS LIKE HIS SCREEN MIGHT BE FROZEN.

JOHN, THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OBVIOUSLY UNCLEAR AT THIS MOMENT.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR HOPE THAT YOU HAVE IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP IN THE DAYS AFTER -- IN A WORLD THAT IS POST TRUMP?

AND THEN A SECOND FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, DO YOU ANTICIPATE FURTHER CHAOS?

BECAUSE I WAS CONCERNED ENOUGH ABOUT HIM HAVING A RALLY THE DAY OF THE INAUGURATION ON THE 20th, AND I'M -- NOW I'M BEGINNING TO WONDER HOW MUCH WORSE COULD THIS POSSIBLY GET?

>> YEAH, I THINK ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS HOPEFULLY ON THE DAY OF INAUGURATION, BECAUSE OF COVID, CROWDS WILL BE DOWN, OBVIOUSLY INVITATIONS ARE VERY NARROW.

I'M NOT INVOLVED IN IT ANYMORE BECAUSE I'M NOT A CONGRESSMAN, SO I'M NOT GETTING INVITED ANYWAY, BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I'M NOT -- I THINK THE BIG FEAR, IS THERE A POST TRUMP AND EVEN FOR OUR PARTY?

I MEAN, HE RAISED A LOT OF MONEY AFTER THE ELECTION FOR SOME POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.

I THINK SOME OF THE REASONS WHY THESE REPUBLICANS ARE STILL SUPPORTIVE IS THAT THEY SEE THAT AND THEY SEE THAT BASE, AND YOU ALL ARE POLITICAL OBSERVERS.

YOU KNOW WHAT DRIVES PEOPLE TO THE POLLS IS EMOTION, AND HE SURE CAN CREATE EMOTION.

SO I DON'T -- THE ANSWER IS I BELIEVE IN THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

I KNOW I'M A REPUBLICAN AND I'M GOING TO STAY THERE, BUT WE HAVE TO EXTRICATE OURSELVES FROM HIM ON OUR VALUES AND NOT CARE RIS PLAT TICK PERSONALITIES -- CHARISMATIC PERSONALITIES OR TRUMPISM.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

UNLESS HE VOLUNTARILY LEAVES THE PUBLIC STATE AND I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO GO ANYWHERE UNLESS WE THROW HIM IN JAIL, BUT THEN HE'LL BE ANOTHER CREATED MARTYR.

>> JOHN, ONE OF YOUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES FROM ILLINOIS, ADAM KINZINGER, SUGGESTED THE 25th AMENDMENT.

THAT I GUESS THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THE CABINET GET TOGETHER AND PUSH TRUMP OUT.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S REALISTIC AND DO YOU THINK IT MIGHT HAPPEN?

>> WELL, I THINK -- ONLY BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MIND OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND I THINK SOME PEOPLE, BASED UPON YESTERDAY, ARE MORE SCARED TODAY THAN THEY WERE TWO DAYS AGO, AND THAT MIGHT BE FEEDING THIS.

NOW, ADAM IS -- NOW HE'S THE DEAN OF THE REPUBLICAN DELEGATION, GREAT RECORD.

HE'S ALSO HISTORICALLY BEEN NOT IN THE 100% TRUMP CAMP.

HE'S BEEN A CRITICAL QUITE A BIT.

I'M REALLY PROUD OF HIM, AND SO WE WILL SEE, BUT IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN JUST ADAM KINZINGER.

IT WILL TAKE THE MITCH McCONNELLS AND THE KEVIN McCARTHY S. JUST A SIDE NOTE, TRUMP DID BETTER IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL RACE THAN ANYBODY EXPECTED.

PART OF THE REPUBLICAN SUCCESS IS TRUMP DID WELL IN SOME OF THESE DISTRICTS THAT A LOT OF US COULD TAKE BACK A LOT OF THESE SEATS, SO THERE'S A POLITICAL KINSHIP WITH THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS BECAUSE IT WAS THAT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN THAT HELPED US CLOSE THE GAP.

SO I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'RE GOING TO GET, EVEN THOUGH IN THEIR HEART, THEY KNOW THEY SHOULD, I'M NOT SURE THEY'LL GO ALL THE WAY.

>> THE CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF HAS JUST RESIGNED.

I WASN'T SURE IF ANYBODY HAD SEEN THAT ON THEIR PHONE.

>> NO, I HAD NOT.

>> YES, I SAW IT.

>> TWO-MINUTE WARNING, RAY.

TWO MINUTES TO GO.

>> SHALL WE GIVE LACY A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THE THINGS JOHN SAID WHEN HE WAS GONE?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> THEY WERE BRUTAL.

>> IT WAS AWFUL.

IT WAS AWFUL.

>> I THOUGHT THEY WERE FRIENDS.

>> JOHN, YOU WERE PART OF THE -- YOU KNOW, IN FAIRNESS TO YOU, YOUR PARTY IS REALLY THE SUBJECT OF A HOSTILE TAKEOVER BY DONALD TRUMP.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> AND WHO DO YOU SEE -- AND LACY, YOU TOO, WHO DO YOU SEE -- OBVIOUSLY ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL SET FOR A WHILE HOPEFULLY, BUT STILL ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, IF YOU HAD TO NAME THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE THAT YOU THINK HAVE THE BEST CHANCE IN 2024, WHO WOULD THEY BE ON YOUR SIDE?

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU -- NOW, THE FORMER U.N.

AMBASSADOR, FORMER GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA, TELL ME -- YOU GUYS KNOW THE NAME.

>> NIKKI HALEY.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU KNOW, SHE THREADED THE NEEDLE REAL WELL WHERE SHE JOINED THE ADMINISTRATION, KIND OF RAN WITH THOSE CREDENTIALS, BUT SHE GOT OUT BEFORE SHE WAS REALLY TAINTED BY IT, AND -- BUT YOU SEE, I MEAN, THESE SENATORS, WHAT DID THEY DO?

I THINK THEY WERE PLAYING FOR THAT TRUMP BASE FOR THE NEXT ELECTION, AND SO ANY OF THOSE MIGHT DO IT, BUT HOPEFULLY BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY, THEY WON'T BE CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, CREDIBLE, BUT THEY WILL BE BY THAT PERCENTAGE.

NOW, I DON'T KNOW -- THERE SHOULD BE MORE -- I DON'T THINK YOU'LL SEE A RESURGE IN JEB BUSH.

I KNOW JOHN KASICH PRETTY WELL BECAUSE I SERVED WITH HIM AND I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S UP FOR IT AGAIN, BUT -- SO THOSE ARE THREE NAMES THAT WITH -- GOVERNING CONSERVATIVES VERSUS CHAOS CONSERVATIVES AND WE NEED A GOVERNING CONSERVATIVE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH CONGRESSMAN JOHN SHIMKUS, AND CONGRESSMAN LACY CLAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I KNOW YOU'RE WRITING A BOOK AND WE CAN'T WAIT TO READ IT WITH WHEN IT'S OUT.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR JOINING US ON DONNYBROOK NEXT UP.

WE WISH YOU THE BEST.

HAPPY NEW YEAR AND MAKE SURE YOU KEEP IT TINED TO THE NINE NETWORK.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NINE NETWORK.