>> HI I'M DONNA KING SITTING IN FOR MARC ROTTERMAN, HOST OF FRONT ROW.

COMING UP A CONVERSATION WITH NORTH CAROLINA'S TREASURER DALE FOLWELL, NEXT.

[announcer speaking] ♪ A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT: >> WELCOME BACK.

TREASURER FOLWELL WELCOME TO FRONT ROW, LET'S START WITH A LITTLE NEWS FROM THIS WEEK IS A BIG STORY.

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HEARD ARGUMENTS THIS WEEK ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S VACCINE MANDATES ON BUSINESS AND STAY AND CUT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK THAT UNFORTUNATELY THE ISSUES REGARDING VACCINES AND MANDATES IS SOMETHING THAT'S BECOME HIGHLY POLITICIZED OF THE LAST 2 YEARS AND YOU KNOW IT'S A SHAME THAT YOU NEED A LOT TO TELL YOU WHAT'S RIGHT WHAT'S WRONG.

BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO WHATEVER THE U.S. SUPREME COURT SAYS ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC AND YOU KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF BARELY SURVIVING COVID IN MARCH OF 2020 BEFORE YOU BUY REALLY KNEW WHAT COVID WAS I'VE SEEN COVID LIVING COLOR.

>> YES, YES, DO YOU THINK THAT SUCH MANDATES ARE CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> I'M NOT A LAWYER, I'M A CPA.

AND THAT'S PROBABLY NOT ON MY YOGA MAT BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT AS GOVERNOR MARTIN ALWAYS TOLD US, DOING RIGHT'S REALLY WRONG, AND YOU KNOW EVERYBODY TRYING TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

SO THAT WE CAN GET THROUGH THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE AS YOUR VIEWERS KNOW VERY WELL.

THIS IS CREATE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DEATH ILLNESS.

POVERTY AND ILLITERACY IN NORTH CAROLINA, SHORE SHORE.

>> NOW ONE OF THE THINGS YOU REALLY HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IS SOME RECENT TALK ON CAPITOL HILL ABOUT INCREASING THE SCOPE OF THE IRS POWERS TO BE ABLE TO LOOK INTO PRIVATE ACCOUNTS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU AS THE TREASURE HAVE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT YOU'VE OPPOSED IT THOUGH.

TELL ME WHY.

>> WELL, I'VE OPPOSED IT BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO BEING THE KEEPER THE PUBLIC PURSE AND THE STATE TREASURER OF NORTH CAROLINA, I'M ALSO CHAIR OF THE STATE BANKING COMMISSION AND TO REALLY SMALL INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE BB&T TRUIST AND FIRST CITIZENS OR STATE REGULATED BANKS FOR EXAMPLE.

I THINK THAT THE SURVEILLANCE OF PEOPLE'S BANKS, AND BANK ACCOUNTS WILL CREATE MORE UN BANKED INDIVIDUALS AND AS STATE TREASURER AND THE CHAIR OF THE BANKING COMMISSION, I WANT PEOPLE TO BE MORE BANKED NOT LESS BANKED.

I THINK THAT AS KELLY KING ALWAYS ADMONISHES US, A FORMER CHAIRMAN OF BB&T TRUIST FOCUS ON THE WHY, GET THE WHY RIGHT THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT THE HOW, I DON'T THINK THEY GOT THE WHY RIGHT IN THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

>> SO WHEN YOU SAY BANKED, UNBANKED WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN TO THE ECONOMY?

>> I THINK THAT AS WELL, BANKS CREATE CAPITAL AND THEY CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR DEPOSITORS TO PUT THINK MONEY IN A SAFE PLACE SO THAT THE THEY CAN LEND IT OUT CREATES UPPER MOBILITY ENJOY THE CHIEF IN PEOPLE'S LIVES AS THEY TRY TO INVEST IN THEIR MIND OR A BUSINESS OR A HOME.

I THINK THIS THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSAL WAS SHOT HOPE IS DEAD FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WHICH WOULD RESULT IN PEOPLE FEELING THAT THEY WOULD BE MORE SURVEILLED AND THEREFORE THEY WOULD HAVE USED THE BANKS AT ALL.

>> SURE DO YOU THINK THAT A TRUST ISSUE WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> I THINK IT'S A TRUST ISSUE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS DAY AND TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE SEEING SO MANY BREACHES OF THEIR DATA AND TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN FOR CASH FLOWS JUST COMING IN NOW THE BANK IS SOMETHING THAT IT WAS A BAD IDEA WHERE THEY DIDN'T GET THE WHY RIGHT.

>> RIGHT THAT IS A THAT'S A TOUGH AND REALLY WE CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT INFLATION, YOU KNOW A LOT OF FOLKS ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMY I THINK WE'VE HAD WHAT 6.8% INFLATION.

SO FAR THIS YEAR WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT THAT MEANS TO THE HEALTH OF NORTH CAROLINA'S ECONOMY AND THE NATION'S?

>> WELL I ALWAYS CARRY LAPEL PINS WITH ME AND I BROUGHT ONE TODAY THAT SAYS NC AND YOUR VIEWERS OBVIOUSLY KNOW THAT STANDS FOR NORTH CAROLINA, BUT IT ALSO STANDS FOR NOTHING COMPARES.

AS FAR AS NORTH CAROLINA'S BALANCE SHEET, I WOULD TRADE PLACES WITH ANY OTHER STATE TREASURER IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT THIS ISSUE ABOUT INFLATION IS VERY SERIOUS, ESPECIALLY FOR LOWER AND FIXED INCOME INDIVIDUALS.

I SAY THIS IS ELEGANTLY AS I CAN - INFLATION IS A THIEF.

THAT'S ALL IT IS.

IT'S A THIEF.

AND THIS IS DEFINITELY A THIEF WHEN YOU DEALING WITH LOWER AND FIXED INCOME INDIVIDUALS WHO DIDN'T HAVE NOTHING THAT CAN GO UP IN VALUE ONCE THE INFLATION HITS, EXCEPT WHAT'S SO IRONIC ABOUT THIS NOT ONLY THE STATISTIC, BUT ALSO THE UNEMPLOYMENT STATISTIC INFLATION DOES NOT INCLUDE FOOD AND ENERGY.

HOW MANY OF YOUR VIEWERS CAN LIVE WITHOUT FOOD AND ENERGY?

SO THIS INFLATION RATE IS PROBABLY EVEN HIGHER THAN WHAT'S BEING SAID TO US BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING TO FOOD AND ENERGY COST.

>> SURE WHAT COULD THAT HAPPEN WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO THE NORTH CAROLINA'S ECONOMY IF WE CONSENT TO CONTINUE TO SEE THIS THERE'S BEEN SOME ARGUMENT THAT ITS TRANSIENCE DO YOU THINK IT IS AND WHAT COULD HAPPEN.

>> YOU KNOW IF LES SHES NOT WHEN YOU SEE IT, IT'S WHEN PEOPLE START TO BELIEVE THAT I WAS PUMPING GAS CARS WHEN GASOLINE WAS $0.18 A GALLON BACK IN WINSTON SALEM MEMBER IN THE LATE EARLY 70'S, LATE LATE 60'S AND EARLY 70'S, HARD FOR ME TO SAY THAT THE AND AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT ONE PEOPLE THINK THAT INFLATION IS HERE IS WHEN THEY START TO BELIEVE IT'S HERE AND IT'S NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY AND AS I SAID EARLIER INFLATION IS A THIEF AND IT'S DISPROPORTIONATELY HURTFUL THE LOWER IN FIXED INCOME INDIVIDUALS AS THEY SEE THE COST OF EVERYTHING GO UP.

>> WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THESE MASSIVE SPENDING BILLS THAT WE'RE SEEING COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON.

DO THINK THAT'S PLAYING A ROLE IN IT AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LONG-TERM EFFECT OF THESE COULD BE?

>> I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY PLAYING A ROLE, ESPECIALLY NOT ONLY WITH THE MONTH'S STIMULUS MONEY THAT'S COMING INTO NORTH CAROLINA, BUT THE IMPACT THAT HAS WANT TO GET HERE.

I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE THE IMPACT WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR THE STIMULUS MONEY VARYING A CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOME OF THIS MONEY CAN CREATE ITS OWN INFLATION AND I THINK THE STATE NEEDS TO HAVE A PLAN OF HOW TO ACTUALLY DEAL WITH INFLATION TO MAKE SURE THE STATE WHICH ABOUT THE WAYS THE BIGGEST BUSINESS IN THE STATE IS THE STATE.

THE SECOND OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM'S THE 3RD BIGGEST BUSINESS OF THE COUNTIES AND THE CITIES MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT CREATING PROCESS EASE THAT ACTUALLY MAKE IT SO THAT THEY'RE COMPETING AGAINST THEMSELVES.

SO THERE'S EVEN MORE INFLATION.

>> SURE SO WHAT KIND OF PLAN DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO HAVE?

>> I THINK THE FIRST PLAN IS JUST TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE.

UNFORTUNATELY, ESPECIALLY IN THE LAST 2 YEARS.

THERE HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH ABILITY TO CHALLENGE ASSUMPTIONS IN NORTH CAROLINA IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

EVERY TIME YOU CHALLENGE AN ASSUMPTION, EVERYBODY IMMEDIATELY SAYS YOU'RE BEING POLITICAL.

THE CITIZENS OF NORTH CAROLINA, JUST BASICALLY WANT SOMEBODY TO WHO WILL TALK TO THEM LIKE ADULTS AND WHO WILL SAY THINGS THAT WHEN THEY HEAR THEM THEY MAKE GOOD COMMON SENSE.

>> SURE, SURE.

NOW ONE OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS OUR STATE TREASURERS TO MANAGE THE STATE RETIREMENT PLAN.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT ITS SUSTAINABILITY, ITS HEALTH.

>> WHETHER THE THE STATE PENSION PLAN WHICH IS ON WE ADMINISTER ON BEHALF OF THOSE THAT TEACH PROTECT AND SERVE.

I'M PLEASED TO REPORT JUST HIT AN ALL-TIME HOW VALUABLE 124 BILLION DOLLARS AND OF THE BLOOD THAT RUNS THROUGH ME AS QUAKER BUT I'VE ATTENDED A METHODIST CHURCH AND YOU KNOW THE METHOD US EVERY YEAR CHOOSE A WORD AND THE WORD OF THE FEW YEARS AGO WAS CONTEXT, WE PUT A 124 BILLION IN CONTEXT, OKAY BY ITSELF THIS ONE OF THE LARGEST POOLS OF PUBLIC MONEY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

>> WOW.

>> BY ITSELF, IT IS 5 TIMES LARGER THAN THE STATE BUDGET.

JUST THE PENSION PLAN.

AND THAT ONLY REPRESENTS HALF OF WHAT WE DO WITH THE TREASURER'S OFFICE.

SO FOR THOSE THAT TEACH PROTECT AND SERVE WITH ALL THE ANGST AND ANXIETY THEY HAVE, THAN BEING A PUBLIC SERVANT, WORRIED ABOUT THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THEIR PENSION PLAN IS NOT ONE OF THOSE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE BEST FUNDED PENSION PLANS IN THE UNITED STATES.

NEARLY 90% FUNDED, THE SOUTH CAROLINA PENSION SYSTEMS ONLY 63% FUNDED THE ALABAMA SYSTEM, 65% FUNDED ONE OF THE KENTUCKY RETIREMENT SYSTEMS ONLY 30% FUNDED.

THIS PLAN IS NEARLY 90% FUNDED IN THE CREDIT GOES TO NOT ONLY THESE PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO HAVE BEEN PAYING INTO THIS PLAN EVERY 30 DAYS.

BUT ALSO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHO IS COMPLETELY FUNDED THE PLAN FOR ALL THESE YEARS, WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT INTEREST RATES TOO WITH THE STOCK MARKET DOES BUT WHERE I'M STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE HARD WORKING PEOPLE THE TREASURER'S OFFICE WHO HAVE PARTNERED WITH ME OF THE LAST 5 YEARS TO CUT 500 MILLION DOLLARS IN WALL STREET FEES AT THIS PENSION PLAN WHY SHOULD THAT MATTER TO YOUR VIEWERS WHO MAY NOT BE ASSOCIATE WITH THIS PENSION PLAN.

THE REASON IT MATTERS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THOSE THAT HE'S PROTECTING ON THE WEST SERVE, BUT TAXPAYERS LIKE THEM WHO HELP FUNDED AND 500 MILLION DOLLARS SAVINGS IN THE PENSION PLAN IS MONEY THAT CAN BE USED FOR BENEFITS FOR NOT ONLY THIS BUT THE NEXT GENERATION OF PUBLIC SERVICE WORKERS AND WE JUST GOT SCORED IN THE ZERO PERCENTILE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD PLACE TO BE DONNA, WHEN I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY I LEARNED OTHERWISE.

THE ZERO PERCENTILE MEANS THAT WE HAVE THE MOST EFFICIENT PENSION PLAN OF ANY PENSION PLAN IN THE UNIVERSE THAT'S THE SIZE OF OURS IN TERMS OF THE EFFICIENCY OF RUNNING IT, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THE FOLKS BACK AT THE TREASURER'S OFFICE AND ALL PREVIOUS STATE TREASURERS HAVE NEVER GAMBLED OR TAKE AN UNDUE RISK WITH A PENSION PLAN.

>> SO NOW DURING COVID WE'VE SEEN RECORD NUMBERS OF PEOPLE RETIRING, EITHER BUT BECAUSE THEIR JOBS WENT REMOTE, THEY WERE COMFORTABLE WITH IT OR THEY DECIDED YOU KNOW, IT'S TIME ARE YOU SEEING A LOT MORE RETIREMENTS AND WHAT IMPACT COULD THAT HAVE ON THE PENSION PLAN?

>> I USED TO STUTTER SO I NEED TO MAKE SURE I SAY THIS SLOWLY FOR YOUR VIEWERS.

WE HAVE JUST CROSSED THE PRECIPICE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

WHERE THERE ARE LESS PEOPLE PAYING INTO THIS PENSION PLAN THAN ARE NOT.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN STATE HISTORY.

LESS PEOPLE PAYING IN THAT ARE NOT.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY WHO ISN'T IS DRAWING A CHECK, BECAUSE WE HAVE 200,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE ENTITLED TO THESE BENEFITS BUT NOT YET OLD ENOUGH TO DRAW THEM.

AND THAT'S VERY SERIOUS.

WE JUST BROKE RECORDS THIS MONTH PAID OUT OVER 355,000 RETIREES THAT RESULTED IN OVER 580 MILLION DOLLARS JUST FOR ONE 30 DAY PERIOD.

OVER 7.8 BILLION DOLLARS LEAVING THE PLAN JUST FOR PENSION BENEFITS.

SO THAT'S WHY WHEN PEOPLE SAY WHY DO YOU TALK THE WAY YOU DO AND SAY THINGS YOU SAY, THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS, BECAUSE ONE OF 10 ADULT NORTH CAROLINIANS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PENSION PLAN, THEY DON'T KNOW I'M THE TREASURER AND THAT'S NOT WHAT'S IMPORTANT.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BECAUSE BEHIND THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP AND THEIR FAMILY THE 2 MOST IMPORTANT THINGS ARE THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THE PENSION AND THE STATE HEALTH PLAN.

>> SURE, SHIFTING GEARS JUST A LITTLE BIT.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHANGE IN THE EMERGENCY POWERS ACT AS AS STATE TREASURER, YOU SIT ON THE COUNCIL OF STATE.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHANGES IN THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS THAT WILL TEST TO TAKE EFFECT IN 2023.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE COUNCIL STATE NEEDS FROM THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WORK.

>> LET ME BE CLEAR THAT THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE GOVERNOR GOVERNOR AT A TIME.

BUT THERE CAN ALSO ONLY BE ONE COUNCIL OF STATE AT THE TIME, THE COUNCIL STATE IS NOT SOMETHING YOUR VIEWERS ARE USED TO TALKING ABOUT AT THE KITCHEN TABLE, BUT IT'S MADE UP OF THE 10 STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THIS KINDER AND NICER THAN WHAT THE WAY WHEN I'M GOING TO SAY IT BUT IT'S BEEN DYSFUNCTIONAL ESPECIALLY THE LAST 2 YEARS.

THIS IS A GOVERNING BODY JUST LIKE THE LEGISLATURE IS A GOVERNING BODY.

THAT IS JUST A BRANCH IS A GOVERNING BODY.

JUST TO MANAGE THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC WHEN YOU'VE GOT ONE OF THE BEST AGRICULTURE COMMISSIONER'S IN THE UNITED STATES SITTING THERE TO TALK ABOUT THE FOOD SUPPLY.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT IN MARCH OF 20 JUST LIKE THAT WE HAD 55% OF OUR FOOD GOING TO GROCERY STORES AND 45 TO RESTAURANTS.

THAT ALL HAD TO FLIP.

THE EDUCATIONAL UNCERTAINTY WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION I CAN'T IMAGINE ANY GOVERNOR TRYING TO MANAGE THROUGH A PANDEMIC WITHOUT USING THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTISE.

FORGET ABOUT THE FINANCES OF ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNCIL OF STATE SO I'M 100% IN FAVOR OF WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DID TO TRY TO BRING SOME GUARDRAILS AND WHAT THE COUNCIL STATE DOES AND IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE YOUR VIEWERS DON'T WAKE UP AND THINK ABOUT COUNCIL OF STATE, THEY WAKE UP AS YOU'VE TALKED ON THE SHOW MANY TIMES ABOUT HOW TO BEST EDUCATE OUR KIDS HOW JOB INSECURITY FOOD AND SECURITY AND OF COURSE HEALTH AND SECURITY AND THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT THE COUNCIL STATE IS OPERATING FUND IS FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

>> SURE AND NOT JUST COUNCIL STATE, YOU WEAR LOTS OF HATS, A STATE TREASURER.

AMONG THEM, YOU'RE CHAIRMAN OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION NOW YOU KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY REACHES PEOPLE AT HOME, DO YOU NEED THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION RECENTLY REMEMBER EVENT THE CHARTER OF EAST LAURINBURG NORTH CAROLINA DO YOU FIND THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER COMMUNITIES LIKE THAT THEY'RE HAVING FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES, TROUBLE MANAGING THERE'S THEIR LOCAL BOOKS.

>> ABSOLUTELY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION WAS CREATED AFTER THE DEPRESSION.

AND THE BANKRUPTCY OF ASHEVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA AND FOR NEARLY HALF A CENTURY NORTH CAROLINA WAS THE ONLY STATE THAT ACTUALLY HAD SOMETHING CALLED THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION NOW THERE'S SEVERAL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

AND THERE'S 1300 ENTITIES THAT REPORT TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION 100 COUNTIES 550 CITIES WATER AND SEWER DISTRICT'S AIRPORT, AUTHORITIES UNIVERSITIES AND HOSPITALS FOR EXAMPLE AND IT GIVES THEM A WAY TO COME IN AND BORROW MONEY ON A TAX FREE BASIS.

AND THE REASON WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO YOUR VIEWERS IS THAT UNFORTUNATELY WELL I WOULD RATHER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION BE THE MAYTAG REPAIR PEOPLE WHERE IF YOU'RE OLD AS I AM YOU REMEMBER THAT'S THE LONLIEST PERSON IN THE WORLD BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING BROKEN.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S A LOT BROKEN IN NORTH CAROLINA, WE JUST GOT OUR CENSUS DATA THAT TALKED ABOUT THE STRENGTH OF NORTH CAROLINA'S TORSO BUT WE NEED TO REALLY PAY ATTENTION NOT JUST THE TORSO BUT THE LEGS AND ARMS AND TOES AND FINGERS IN NORTH CAROLINA AND THERE'S A LOT OF STRESS OUT THERE AND YOU YOU MENTIONED EAST LAURINBURG THIS IS THE POWER OF THE STORM BIRTH FROM NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.

THERE ARE 5 PEOPLE 5 POSITIONS TO BE VOTED ON FOR THE GOVERNING OF LEAST LUMBER THERE'S ONLY ONE NAME ON THIS BALLOT RIGHT AND I BRING ALL THESE PROPS BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST WOULDN'T BELIEVE HEADLESS ACTUALLY SHOWED SO EAST LAURINBURG YEARS BEEN THE MOST ARE MECHANICAL MY LIFE THERE'S NO TOOL IN OUR TOOL BOX THAT CAN THAT CAN FEAST FIXED EAST LAURINBURG TO BE CLEAR THERE'S SOME GREAT EXAMPLES LIKE AHOSKIE NORTH CAROLINA SAY THIS SARCASTICALLY YOU HAVEN'T HEARD APPLE'S GOING TO AHOSKIE, NORTH CAROLINA.

BUT IN 7 YEARS AHOSKIE WAS ON THE U.S. ASSISTANCE LIST, THEY WERE UPSIDE DOWN, THEY'VE MADE TOUGH CHOICES.

THEY'VE EXECUTED THE DISCIPLINE NECESSARY TO GET THEMSELVES BACK ON THE RIGHT FOOT AND LASTLY AS FAR AS EAST LAURINBURG JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT INCORPORATED DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE NOT A COMMUNITY.

BY THE WAY THERE IN CURRITUCK COUNTY.

THERE ARE NO INCORPORATED CITIES.

>> SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF YOU'RE INCORPORATED OR NOT YOU CAN STILL BE A COMMUNITY.

>> SURE.

ANOTHER BIG ISSUE WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT THIS YEAR IS A LEANDRO DECISION.

JUDGE DAVID LEE RECENTLY ORDERED THE TREASURY TO BASICALLY OPEN THE COFFERS.

PUT 1.7 BILLION DOLLARS INTO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM BUT MADE THAT DECISION FROM THE BENCH RATHER THAN TRYING TO HAVE IT TO COME TO THE LEGISLATURE.

TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT BECAUSE AS KEEPER THE PUBLIC PURSE THAT YOU KNOW THAT'S REALLY YOUR TERRITORY.

>> IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

JUDGE LEE MADE THIS DECISION.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THERE'S 2 MILLION DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER MONEY SPENT ON THE STUDY, THAT JUDGE LEE DEPENDED ON AND WHAT'S MOST UNFORTUNATE ABOUT THIS AND THE REASON I CARRY THIS WITH ME IS THAT THIS IS THE CONSTITUTION OF NORTH CAROLINA, AND AS I SAID EARLIER, I'M NOT A LAWYER BUT WHAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, IF THERE SOMETHING GENERALLY SAID HERE LIKE EVERY CHILD IS ENTITLED TO A FREE AND SOUND BASIC EDUCATION, IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN HERE SPECIFIC THAT THAT TIES INTO THAT THEN THE SPECIFIC ALWAYS OVERRULES THE GENERAL.

IN THIS CONSTITUTION.

IT SAYS IN NO MONEY SHOULD BE LEAVE THE COFFERS UNLESS IT'S APPROPRIATED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT'S JUST SAD THAT WE'VE GOTTEN A SITUATION OF ALMOST A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS OF NORTH CAROLINA ON THIS LEANDRO DECISION AND LET ME JUST BE CLEAR THIS IS NOT JUST ME SAYING THESE THINGS THIS IS THE CONTROLLER OF NORTH CAROLINA DOCTOR LINDA COMBS, THIS IS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHO'S ONE OF THE 3 LEGS OF THE STOOL THAT OPERATE OUR STATE GOVERNMENT THAT RATING AGENCIES KIND OF DEPEND ON TO HAVE THESE CHECKS AND BALANCES.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE PERSON WHO SHEPHERDED THE LEANDRO DECISION FOR THE LAST 27 YEARS JUDGE HOWIE MANNING IS ALSO OPPOSED TO WHAT JUDGE LEE HAS DONE.

INTERESTING OKAY, SO.

>> YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT LOTS GOING ON OF COURSE YOU'VE BEEN FOCUSED A LOT DURING YOUR TENURE AS TREASURE ON THE STATE HEALTH PLAN AND TRANSPARENCY IN HOSPITAL PRICING FOR 700,000 OR MORE STATE EMPLOYEES TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT'S BEEN LIKE AND WHY THIS HAS BEEN SUCH A FOCUS FOR YOU.

>> THE REASON IS NOT EMOTIONAL POLITICAL ITS MATHEMATICAL WHEN I WAS SWORN IN AS THE KEEPER THE PUBLIC PURSE A BUSINESS IN SEE REPORT ON THIS I INHERITED A 34 BILLION DOLLAR UNFUNDED HEALTHCARE LIABILITY TO PUT THAT IN CONTEXT A FEW YEARS AGO, PEW RESEARCH RANKED NORTH CAROLINA'S INSOLVENCIES FAR AS THE HEALTH PLAN.

RIGHT BEHIND THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, THE SAME ILLINOIS THAT YOUR VIEWERS HEAR ABOUT ALL THE TIME.

AND THEY SHOULD BE ASKING THEMSELVES HAVE CUT THE PENSION BE ONE OF THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY IF NOT THE WORLD OF HEALTH PLAN BEING ONE OF THE MOST INSOLVENT AND THE ANSWERS IS THIS MATHEMATICAL FOR NEARLY 50 YEARS PROMISES WERE MADE TO STATE EMPLOYEES TO BE ELIGIBLE ELIGIBLE FOR LIFETIME HEALTH CARE, BUT UNLIKE THE PENSION PLAN, NO MONEY WAS GOING IN TO FUND THAT EVERY 30 DAYS THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN THE SITUATION.

NO CITY WANTS ASYLUM SALAS 29 YEARS AGO START PUTTING MONEY TOWARD THIS PROBLEM AND THEY DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE CITY OF CHARLOTTE SAW THIS 27 YEARS AGO AND START PUTTING MONEY IN THIS.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING IS JUST FALLING OUT THE SKY.

BUT THE MAIN REASON MATHEMATICALLY IS THIS YOUR VIEWERS DON'T CONSUME HEALTHCARE, IT CONSUMES THEM.

IT'S THE ONLY PRODUCT IN THEIR LIFE THAT THEY WOULD RATHER NOT CONSUME BECAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN THEY WERE SICK.

WHEN THEY TRIED TO INQUIRE AS TO WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST THERE TOLD US NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

AND THEN WHEN THEY DON'T PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO CONSUME, AND NO ONE WOULD TELL HIM WHAT IT COST THEM THEIR CREDIT RATING IS TROY AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT FORMER TREASURER HARLEM BOWLES WHO WITH THIS VERY LITTLE HELP HIM TALK ABOUT IS SOMETHING THAT BILL GATES TALKED ABOUT 14 YEARS AGO, A STATE ALTER BETH WOOD WARNED ABOUT THIS 11 YEARS AGO WARREN BUFFETT 4 YEARS AGO AND EVEN SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN WHO RECENTLY AS 2 YEARS AGO SAID THAT THE LEADING CAUSE OF BANKRUPTCY IN UNITED STATES IS THINGS ASSOCIATE WITH HEALTH CARE.

BUT PICTURES TELL 1000 WORDS.

WHEN I ATTEMPTED AS THE STATE TREASURER TO FIND OUT WHAT THOSE THAT TEACH PROTECT AND OTHERWISE SERVE ARE PAYING FOR HEALTH CARE, THIS IS WHAT WAS SENT TO ME AS THE MASTER CHARGE LIST.

>> [DONNA] ALL REDACTED.

>> ALL REDACTED.

THIS IS AN INDUSTRY THAT OPERATES IN SECRECY.

WE'RE SEEING THE 'CARTEL-IZATION' OF HEALTH CARE IN NORTH CAROLINA, IT'S A VERY STRONG WORD.

BUT IF YOU GO THE WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY A CARTEL IS DEFINED AS AN ASSOCIATION WHICH IS FORMED TO RESTRICT COMPETITION OR RAISE PRICES.

WE'RE SEEING THE CONCENTRATION OF HEALTH CARE SERVICES IN NORTH CAROLINA INTO THE HANDS OF FEWER AND FEWER MULTIMILLION DOLLAR EXECUTIVES WHO WORK FOR THESE MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR CORPORATIONS THAT THE SKIES THEMSELVES AS NONPROFITS WHO DON'T PAY INCOME TAX SALES TAX OR REAL ESTATE TAXES AND THE REASON THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT I CAN'T CONTROL WHAT PEOPLE MAKE OF STATE EMPLOYEES.

MY JOB IS TO PROTECT WHAT THEY KEEP.

AND WHEN WE HAVE MANY STATE EMPLOYEES, ESPECIALLY ENTRY LEVEL POSITIONS WHO ARE HAVING TO WORK ONE WEEK OUT OF EVERY 4 THIS YEAR TO PAY THE FAMILY PREMIUM.

ASSOCIATE WITH THE LARGEST PURCHASER OF HEALTH CARE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

AS COACH K ONE SAID WHEN SOMETHING'S HAPPENED RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES ARE WORTH GETTING MAD ABOUT SURE AND THIS IS WORTH GETTING MAD ABOUT.

>> RIGHT OKAY.

WELL ONE MORE THING I WANT TO GET A PICTURE WE SQUEEZE IN THERE.

NORTH CAROLINA'S DEAL TO BRING APPLE TO RTP AND APPLE CAMPUS TO RTP WAS RECENTLY RATED ONE OF THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE YOU KNOW A LOT OF US ARE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT HAVING ALL THESE JOBS.

BUT THE PRICE TAG IS REALLY STEEP.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TRADEOFF OF THESE TAX INCENTIVES AND THESE REALLY EXPENSIVE 39 YEAR DEALS FOR GROUPS LIKE APPLE TO COME TO NORTH CAROLINA.

>> AS A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE FOR 8 YEARS AS ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FOR 3 YEARS AS THE KEEPER PUBLIC PURSE FOR 5 YEARS.

I'VE NEVER BEEN ASKED ABOUT ONE OF THESE INCENTIVE DEALS AS FAR AS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY NEGOTIATING IT AND SENDING OUT THE MONEY.

I'VE ALWAYS SAID, AND I SAID THIS YESTERDAY AND I SAY TODAY AND I'LL SAY TOMORROW, THAT WHEN WE CREATED BUSINESS CLIMATE, NORTH CAROLINA THAT BRING CERTAINTY BUSINESSES THAT WANT TO EXPAND OR COME HERE, THEN THAT'S WHAT IS GOING TO DRIVE THE ECONOMIC GROWTH IN NORTH CAROLINA.

IF WE CAN GET TO TRANSPARENT HEALTH CARE.

WE WOULD HAVE AN ECONOMIC GOLD RUSH FOR NORTH CAROLINA, WHICH WOULD EVEN REQUIRE ANY INCENTIVES WHICH WOULD BE ESPECIALLY HELPFUL TO RULE NORTH CAROLINA ON THE TOES, THE FINGERS, THE LEGS AND ARMS OF OUR STATE.

SO THAT'S HOW ALL THIS KIND OF TIES BACK IN TOGETHER.

BUT THE FACT IS THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN THE PARTICULARS AS THE TREASURE IN NORTH CAROLINA ABOUT THIS APPLE DEAL ALL I KNOW IS WHAT I READ FROM GREAT PUBLICATIONS LIKE YOURS AT THE CAROLINA JOURNAL.

>> WELL THANK YOU.

SO BEFORE WE WRAP IT UP, LET'S DO A QUICK LITTLE LIGHTNING ROUND HERE.

IN 2022, DO YOU THINK WE'RE HEADED FOR AN ECONOMIC SLOWDOWN OR EVEN RECESSION?

>> I THINK THAT UNLIKE 18 MONTHS AGO WHEN WE HAD AN UNEMPLOYMENT CRISIS AND LET ME JUST SAY THAT PEOPLE DON'T GIVE ENOUGH ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT AND I HAVE A SMALL PART OF THIS WHEN I WAS SECRETARY OF COMMERCE TO A COMING OF THE GREAT FINANCIAL CRISIS WE HAD 2.7 BILLION DOLLARS OF UNEMPLOYMENT DEBT.

ON SAINT PATRICK'S DAY OF 2020 WE HAD A 4 BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS, THAT WAS DESPERATELY NEEDED BECAUSE WE HAD NEARLY A MILLION PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED AND WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OTHER STATES IS THE PAYROLL TAXES, THE FOOD AND USE TAX WENT UP TO START PAYING THOSE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS THAT DID NOT OCCUR IN NORTH CAROLINA, SO LET ME JUST BE CLEAR ABOUT OF THE FACT THAT NOW WE HAVE UNEMPLOYMENT CRISIS, NOT AN UNEMPLOYMENT CRISIS AND PEOPLE SAY WELL, YOU KNOW THIS IS ABOUT BUSINESS.

WELL AS I'VE ALREADY REMIND YOUR VIEWERS, THE BIGGEST BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF HIS OTHER GOVERNMENT ENTITIES IN THE STATE AND WE'RE HAVING OUR OWN EMPLOYMENT CRISIS IN NORTH CAROLINA.

IT'S A VERY SERIOUS MATTER WHEN YOU SET UP A PROCESS IN THE SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO SHOW UP FOR WORK ARE PAYING INTO A PAYROLL OR UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM AND THAT MONEY IS GOING TOWARD PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T CHOOSE TO SHOW UP FOR WORK OR POSSIBLY MAKING MORE PER HOUR.

FORTUNATELY, SOME OF THAT STUFF IS HAS NOW ENDED BUT IT'S GOING TAKE A LONG TIME TO GET THROUGH THIS EMPLOYMENT CRISIS.

AND ALL YOUR VIEWERS KNOW THAT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE INFLATION ISSUE.

THERE ARE 3 THINGS THAT DRIVE INFLATION.

THE COST THE MATERIAL, THE COSTA LABOR.

AND THE COST OF MONEY AND ALL THIS KIND OF TIES BACK AND OTHER THINGS.

>> SO WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU?

ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT MAYBE RUNNING FOR HIGHER OFFICE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> WHAT'S NEXT FOR ME IS TO TRY TO BE THE BEST STATE TREASURE IN THE HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA, AND I'VE GOT VERY BIG SHOES TO FILL AND AND TO REMAIN IN THE CZECH DELIVERY BUSINESS, YOU KNOW WE WE ARE WE'RE SPENDING NEARLY 800 MILLION DOLLARS EVERY 30 DAYS THAT THE TREASURER'S OFFICE HOW NEARLY 10 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OUT THE TREASURER'S OFFICE GENERALLY FOR YOU KNOW, PENSION BENEFITS FOR STATE AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES AND THE PHARMACEUTICAL BENEFITS AND HEALTH BENEFITS.

AND YOU KNOW MOST OF THOSE CHECKS THAT WE DELIVER BEING IN THE CHECK DELIVERY BUSINESS OUR BLESSINGS.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY THIS AFTERNOON I'LL BE GOING TO A FUNERAL OF TROOPER HORTON IN FORSYTH, NORTH CAROLINA WHO LOST HIS LIFE IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

MOST THE CHECKS THAT WE DELIVER ARE BLESSINGS BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE RETIRED AND GONE ON WITH THEIR LIFE, SOME OF THESE CHECKS AREN'T.

>> YES, YES WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR STATE, AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THAT'S IT FOR US HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

I'M DONNA KING SITTING IN FOR MARC ROTTERMAN.

♪ [announcer speaking] ♪ A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT: ♪