>>> J.D.

VANCE FROM NEVER TRUMP TO FULL MAGA.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

>>> J.D.

VANCE FROM NEVER TRUMP TO FULL MAGA.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

J.D.

VANCE ONCE CALLED DONALD TRUMP CULTURAL HEROIN.

VANCE SAID HE WAS A NEVER-TRUMP GUY.

THEN VANCE RAN FOR U.S. SENATE, SAID HE HAD TRUMP ALL WRONG.

HE GOT HIS ENDORSEMENT, WON THE PRIMARY, THEN WON THE SEAT.

NOW AS SENATOR, HIS PRO-TRUMP RHETORIC HAS -- AND TONE HAS GROWN MORE STRIDENT AND HARSH.

TAKE THIS EXAMPLE FROM ABC'S "THIS WEEK" WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED CONGRESS TO CONSIDER FAKE ELECTORS DESIGNED TO GIVE THE 2020 ELECTION TO DONALD TRUMP.

>> WOULD YOU HAVE CERTIFIED THE ELECTION RESULTS HAD YOU BEEN VICE PRESIDENT?

>> IF I HAD BEEN VICE PRESIDENT, I WOULD HAVE TOLD THE STATES LIKE PENNSYLVANIA, GEORGIA, AND SO MANY OTHERS THAT WE NEEDED TO HAVE MULTIPLE SLATES OF ELECTORS, AND I THINK THE U.S. CONGRESS SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT OVER IT FROM THERE.

THAT IS THE LEGITIMATE WAY TO DEAL WITH AN ELECTION THAT A LOT OF FOLKS, INCLUDING ME, THINK HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN 2020.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE.

>> SO IT'S CLEAR YOU WOULD HAVE DONE WHAT DONALD TRUMP ASKED YOU, NOT WHAT VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE DID.

YOU SAID THAT'S ABOUT THE PAST BUT -- >> NO, GEORGE.

>> THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID -- >> IT'S NOT ABOUT -- GEORGE, IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT DONALD TRUMP ASKED SOMEBODY TO DO.

IT'S ABOUT WHAT DO WE DO WHEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020.

>> LATER IN THE WEEK AT A NEWS CONFERENCE DENOUNCING THE FAILED BORDER UKRAINE AID COMPROMISE USED THE WORD [ BLEEP ] AND PUT THAT WORD MINUS THE BLEEP IN THE HEADLINE OF A PRESS RELEASE HIS OFFICE SENT OUT.

GENE KREBS, YOU RAN WITH TRUMP IN LAST YEAR'S PRIMARY AND THE ELECTION.

BUT WHEN HE JOINED THE WORLD'S MOST DELIBERATIVE BODY SO-CALLED, SOME THOUGHT HE MIGHT IT DOWN, BE A QUIETER TRUMP SUPPORTER.

THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

>> NO.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT DONALD J. TRUMP SR. HAS BROKEN ALL THE NORMS IN POLITICS AND, INDEED, MUCH OF SOCIETY.

AND HAS ESTABLISHED A NEW NORM WHICH IS THERE ARE NO NORMS.

THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU'RE SEEING FROM J.D.

VANCE WHO, YOU KNOW, IS ACTIVELY -- OR NOT ACTIVELY, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON ABOUT HIM SEEKING THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOD.

JUST AS -- AND I KNOW IF ANYBODY'S WATCHING THIS RIGHT NOW, DON'T TAKE A DRINK WHEN I SAY THIS, OKAY -- OKAY, IS THAT TO KEEP BUSTING ALL THE NORMS HE'S NOT GOING TO HAVE J.D.

VANCE OR ELISE STEFANIK BE HIS RUNNING MATE, HE'LL HAVE DONALD TRUMP JR. BE HIS RUNNING MATE.

>> TRUMP WON LOY BY EIGHT POINTS -- OHIO BY EIGHT POINTS TWICE.

J.D.

VANCE WON BY EIGHT POINTS.

YOU COULD SEE HE'S WITH THE CONSTITUENTS.

>> AT THIS POINT A NUMBER OF FORMER -- PRE, FORMER CONGRESS PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN MATTER, THERE IS THE CULT OF TRUMP IS WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

PART OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE POLLING AND WHERE THE POLLING IS RIGHT NOW.

IF DONALD TRUMP'S POLLING EVER JUST STARTS TO IMPLODE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THESE SAME PEOPLE DO EXACTLY WHAT J.D.

VANCE'S ORIGINAL POSITION WAS.

BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION, HE'S PANDERING TO BE VICE PRESIDENT.

AND THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT AMERICAN ISSUES.

IT'S ABOUT WHO CAN FAVOR DONALD TRUMP MORE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

AND IT'S A LITTLE SCARY DURING A POLITICAL DISCOURSE THAT IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT ISSUES, IT'S ABOUT ONE PERSON.

>> WE SAW IN '22 JOSH MANDEL TRYING HARD TO GET DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

HE WENT TOO FAR WHEN HE TRIED TO SQUARE OFF WITH MIKE GIBBONS ON THE DEBATE STAGE.

AND REPORTEDLY TRUMP WAS TURNED OFF BY THAT.

CAN YOU GO TOO FAR, LAURA, IN TRYING TO GAIN THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S FAVOR?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN GO TOO FAR.

BUT I THINK THAT BRIAN'S RIGHT, THAT -- I'M SORRY, GENE SAID THAT LIKE A LOT OF THESE NORMS HAVE BEEN BROKEN.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP CAN BREAK ALL THE NORMS, AND HE STILL REMAINS REALLY POWERFUL AND POWERFUL WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

CAN LOWER LEVEL SENATORS AND MAYORS AND GOVERNORS, CAN THEY DO THE SAME THING AND BE AS OUTLANDISH PERHAPS AS DONALD TRUMP AND STILL WIN HIS FAVOR?

I DON'T KNOW.

>> ANDREW, IS THIS THE ONLY WAY FOR A REPUBLICAN RIGHT NOW TO ADVANCE IN HIS OR HER PARTY IS TO BASICALLY PLAY TO THAT TRUMP, PRO-TRUMP CROWD?

>> SO IF YOU FOLLOW THE U.S. SENATE RACE THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, THAT'S CERTAINLY -- YOU CAN OFTEN EVALUATE WHAT THE POLITICIANS THINK THEY NEED DO, BASICALLY WATCHING WHAT THEY DO AND SAY.

AND YOU HAVE FRANK LaROSE AND BERNIE MORENO TOEING THIS LINE.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S THE CALCULATION THAT THEY MAKE.

ASSON OBSERVER I A -- AS AN OBSERVER I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

A FAIR COLLUSION.

>> LOOK AT SENATOR JAMES LANKFORD FROM OKLAHOMA WHO NEGOTIATED A DEAL THAT WENT NOWHERE.

HIS PARTY IN OKLAHOMA IS TRYING TO KICK HIM OUT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE ASKING HIM TO RESIGN.

THEY WANT TO -- AND HE'S A BAPTIST MINISTER, FAR RIGHT REPUBLICAN, WHO JUST TRIED TO STRIKE A DEAL THAT MOST DEMOCRATS HATE ON IMMIGRATION.

>> IT KIND OF THROWS A WET BLANKET OVER THE IDEA OF DOING POLICY IN U.S. SENATE, MUCH LESS CONGRESS.

BUT I THINK IT HAS TO GO BACK TO -- YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT TRUMP OWNS 75% OF THE REPUBLICAN VOTE.

NOW THIS IS WHERE IT GETS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE -- THAT 75% IS INTENSELY LOYAL TO HIM.

THE OTHER 25%, YOU SAW THIS FROM THE EXIT POLLING FOR THOSE WHO VOTED FOR NIKKI HALEY, WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE PRIMARILY DUE TO JANUARY 6th.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT I THINK LEAVES -- HERE'S A PROBLEM FOR MY PARTY -- IN TRUMP'S ON THE BALLOT, THE PARTY'S SPLIT.

IN TRUMP FOR WHATEVER REASON IS NOT ON THE BALLOT, THEN HOW DOES -- HOW DO WE GET THE TRUMPIANS TO COME TO THE POLLS WITHOUT HIM BEING ON THE BALLOT?

WE ARE NOW USED TO AND WE COUNT ON THEM SHOWING UP.

WE ARE IN -- EVERYBODY THINKS WE'RE IN THIS DRIVER'S SEAT.

I THINK WE'RE IN A REAL DIFFICULT BOX.

>> YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, BRIAN, AND HEAD TO HEAD IN OHIO TRUMP STILL WINS AGAINST JOE BIDEN.

NATIONAL POLLS, GRANTED IT'S EARLY, ONLY FEBRUARY, BUT TRUMP IS NECK AND NECK IF NOT LEADING IN MANY OF THE KEY STATES.

>> I DO THINK THERE'S A TENDENCY TO DO THAT.

I THINK THAT THE POLLS ACCURATELY REFLECT WHERE HE IS.

BUT I ALSO THINK DEMOCRATS HAVE TO ADJUST THEIR MESSAGING.

YOU CAN'T -- YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO VOTE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

YOU CAN'T INSULT ESPECIALLY INDEPENDENT VOTERS THAT VOTED FOR HIM.

YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM, OKAY, YOU VOTED THIS WAY, BUT THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T VOTE THAT WAY ANYMORE.

BUT IF YOU'RE JUST TELLING PEOPLE HE'S AWFUL, HE'S -- AND GOING DOWN THAT ROAD, YOU'RE JUST GOING TURN PEOPLE OFF.

AND THAT'S BEEN A PROBLEM FOR THE PARTY.

>> BUT JOE BIDEN'S NOT THE MESSENGER.

FOR 40 YEARS JOE BIDEN HAS SET MY TEETH ON EDGE CONSISTENTLY.

AND HE'S DONE IT FOR A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS.

AND HE IS STILL DOING IT NOW.

AND NOW YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE CLAIMS ABOUT HIS MENTAL COMPETENCY, LIKE THE PRESIDENT OF -- ASSISI, PRESIDENT OF MEXICO, THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

>> I THINK DONALD TRUMP MAKES THE SAME THING -- >> HE DOES, I'M NOT ARGUING THAT.

BUT THEY'RE NOT PUTTING -- VOTE FOR BIDEN.

>>> IF YOU WATCH LOCAL NEWS, LIVE SPORTS, OR FOUR "JEOPARDY," YOU KNOW THE CAMPAIGNS AND SUPPORTING PACS ARE FLOODING TV, COMMERCIAL SPOTS WITH ADS, THE MOST EYE-POPPING NUMBER THIS WEEK COMES FROM SENATE MINORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL SUPPORTING GROUPS THEY SAY THEY PLAN TO SPEND $83 MILLION TO DTV SHERROD BROWN IN NOVEMBER.

OF COURSE OHIO REPUBLICANS HAVE TO PICK BROWN'S OPPONENT FIRST.

THE THREE CANDIDATES ARE STATE SENATOR MATT DOLAN, SECRETARY OF STATE FRANK LaROSE, AND CLEVELAND BUSINESSMAN BERNIE MORENO.

ANDREW TOBIAS, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MONEY PROMISED TO BE SPENT IN FEBRUARY AND MONEY ACTUALLY SPENT IN SEPTEMBER.

BUT $83 MILLION, THAT'S A BIG NUMBER.

WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THEY'RE TRYING TO SEND THERE?

>> SO LIKE YOU SAID, THEY COULD PULL THIS BACK, IT'S NOT SET IN STONE.

WE HAD A CONVERSATION IN OUR NEWSROOM ABOUT THAT.

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THEY'RE VERY LIKELY TO SPEND THIS AMOUNTS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THERE BEING OTHER RACES THAT WILL BE MORE IMPORTANT TO REPUBLICANS THAN OHIO BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THREE CURRENTLY DEMOCRATIC HELD STATES AND STATES THAT TRUMP WON.

SO IT'S JUST A VERY GOOD PICKUP OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM.

FOR DEMOCRATS IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THE SAME REASON.

WE'LL SEE HOW THE MAP PLAYS OUT AS THE YEAR GOES ON.

IT'S A HUGE NUMBER.

MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH AS THEY SPENT HELPING J.D.

VANCE IN 2022 WHEN HE NEEDED MONEY.

AND WE'RE -- 2022 IS A RECORD EXPENSIVE YEAR FOR OHIO SENATE ELECTIONS, AND IT CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE WE'RE ON THAT PATH AGAIN THIS TIME.

>> WILL IT BE ENOUGH, LAURA?

$83 MILLION.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING WHAT THE CANDIDATE HIMSELF WOULD BE -- MORENO, LaROSE, OR DOLAN WILL SPEND.

>> I THINK ANDREW'S RIGHT, THIS GOING TO BE A RECORD-SETTING YEAR.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE OHIO IS REALLY NO LONGER A PRESIDENTIAL BELLWETHER OR SWING STATE.

WE'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO SEE THAT MONEY AND THE OUTSIDE MONEY SURGING IN IN THIS SENATE RACE.

IT IS A GOOD PICKUP OPPORTUNITY.

OHIO'S BEEN TRENDING RED.

AND I THINK SHERROD BROWN IS GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT TO KEEP HIS SEAT.

>> BRIAN, WHICH CANDIDATE DOES HE WANT TO FACE?

DOES HE WANT TO FACE BERNIE MORENO WHO'S NOT AS WELL-KNOWN SOME CERTAINLY NOT AS WELL-KNOWN AS FRANK LaROSE.

>> I THINK HE WILL RAISE MONEY AND RUN ON HIS OWN RECORD TLMT ARE TWO ISSUES.

THIS ISN'T REALLY A PRIMARY RACE, THIS IS A RACE OVER WHO GETS THE ROSE FROM DONALD TRUMP.

RIGHT NOW MORENO HAS IT.

RIGHT NOW LaROSE HAS THE THORNS, AND HE WANTS IT.

AND YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT DOLAN'S GOING TO GET OR NOT GET.

BUT THE POINT OF ALL THIS IS THAT THEY'RE -- YOU KNOW, THE SAME WAY THAT METZENBAUM WAS ABLE TO WIN WHEN REAGAN WAS ON THE BALLOT, SHERROD'S GOING TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY, ALREADY IS RAISING A LOT OF MONEY, BUT HE'S GOING TO NEED TICKET SPLITTERS ESPECIALLY AMONG INDEPENDENT VOTERS WANT IT'S HOW YOU MESSAGE AND GET THAT POINT ACROSS.

I THINK THE FACT THAT TRUMP IS SO POLARIZING EVEN WITH 25% OF YOUR OWN PARTY IS THE PROBLEM IN THAT PARTY.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HOLD THEIR NOSE, THOSE 25% VOTING FOR HIM.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THESE SENATE CANDIDATES CONTINUE THIS WAY THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO RUB THE WRONG WAY WHEN SHERROD'S ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE HE'S VERY POPULAR WITH SOME SEGMENTS OF THE INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

>> HOW MUCH, GENE, DOES THE TOP OF THE TICKET -- SAY IT IS STILL TRUMP AND BIDEN, BOTH RELATIVELY SPEAKING UNPOPULAR.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT COULD DRAG EACH CANDIDATE DOWN.

WHO DRAGS THE CANDIDATE DOWN THE LEAST?

I GUESS, WHO WINS, PERHAPS, IF THAT'S A FACTOR?

>> IT DEPENDS WHICH U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE EMERGES FROM THAT SCRUM.

AND WHEN WE WERE KIDS WE OFTEN PLAYED THE GAME "PAPER, SCISSORS, ROCK," OKAY.

SO MATT DOLAN CAN GREAT SHERROD BROWN.

BROWN BEETS BERNIE MORENO AND DONALD TRUMP HAS BEAT FRANK LaROSE.

IF IT'S DOLAN, DOLAN CAN BEAT BROWN.

IF IT'S MORENO, HE CAN'T BEAT BROWN -- WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THERE'S GOOD LAST NAMES IN POLITICS, BROWN, KENNEDY, O'NEIL, THERE'S ALSO BAD LAST NAMES.

WHICH IS ANYTHING UNFAMILIAR.

GERMANIC LAST NAMES ARE NOT GOOD STATEWIDE.

WE'RE 33% OF THE POPULATION BUT NOT A GOOD LAST NAME.

MORENO IS UNFAMILIAR.

>> HOW DO WE -- EARLY VOTING STARTS IN LESS THAN TWO WEEKS.

DO WE HAVE ANY GAUGE OF WHERE WE ARE -- I MEAN, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING AFTER MORENO, MORENO IS ALL OVER TV.

HIS TV ADS FEATURE DONALD TRUMP AS MUCH IF NOT MORE THAN THEY FEATURE HIMSELF.

HE'S OBVIOUSLY JUST BEATEN THAT TRUMP ENDORSEMENT DOWN.

>> YES, LIKE I SAID BEFORE IN THE SHOW, KIND OF MAKE CONCLUSIONS BASED ON OBSERVING THE ACTORS AND WHAT THEY DO AND JENNIFER WHAT THEY -- INFER WHAT THEY THINK BY THAT.

BY MORENO HAVING TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENTS, BY LaROSE ATTACKING MORENO AND DOLAN ATTACKING MORENO, THE ATTACKS ARE AIMED AT BERNIE MORENO.

I CONCLUDE THAT PEOPLE THINK HE'S LEADING.

WE'LL SEE WHERE THINGS GO THERE.

THERE THE POLLS ARE QUITE CLOSE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE UNDECIDED.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT BREAKS.

>> ANY WORD ON WHETHER DRUM WILL BLAKE A CAMPAIGN STOP BEFORE THE PRIMARY?

HE DID IN '22, THREE WEEKS AHEAD, CAME OUT FOR J.D.

VANCE.

>> HE HASN'T CALLED ME ABOUT THAT YET.

>> NO.

>> ANY WORD FROM CAMPAIGN FOLKS?

>> SO I DIDN'T -- I ASKED AROUND, DIDN'T MEAN I GOT ANSWERS.

BUT CERTAINLY IT'S SOMETHING THE PEOPLE ARE WONDERING BECAUSE IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF HE COMES OR NOT.

THERE'S A SPECTACLE THAT IT'S ASSOCIATED WITH HIM SHOWING UP.

I THINK IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> YEAH.

>> AND MARCH -- THE TRIAL HAS BEEN DELAYED FROM MARCH 4th, BUT THE SUPREME COURT HEARING THIS WEEK IF DECIDED QUICKLY THERE COULD BE COURT PROCEEDINGS IN THE WEEK BEFORE, TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE PRIMARY.

WE'LL SEE.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

NEXT TOPIC, EVERY TWO YEARS THE STATE LEGISLATURE APPROVES THE CAPITAL BUDGET.

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR BUILDING PROJECTS ALL AROUND THE STATE.

THIS YEAR, THERE IS AN EXTRA CAPITAL BUDGET THANKS TO A SURPLUS OF MONEY LEFT OVER AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

IT TOTALED $700 MILLION.

THIS WEEK THE HOUSE APPROVED ITS HALF OF THE MONEY.

AMONG THE PROJECTS IT WOULD HELP PAY FOR IS THE PROPOSED NEW PERFORMANCE SPACE FOR THE COLUMBUS SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA.

THE STATE WOULD CONTRIBUTE $10 MILLION TOWARD THE $2275 MILLION PROJECT -- $275 MILLION PROJECT ON THE SCIOTO PENINSULA.

THAT'S ONE OF THE SCORES OF PROJECTS AROUND THE STATE THAT WOULD BE FUNDED BY THIS.

BRIAN ROTHENBERG, IS THIS GOOD USE OF GOVERNMENT MONEY OR OLD-FASHIONED PORK-BARREL POLITICS?

>> I WILL TELL YOU IT IS GOOD MONEY BECAUSE HAVING COME FROM A DIFFERENT STATE THAT I LIVED IN FOR A FEW YEARS AND SEEN, YOU KNOW, HOW -- IN MICHIGAN, AND SEEING HOW THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF CAPITAL FUNDING OR EVEN ROAD FUNDING ON THEIR TRANSPORTATION BUDGETS, THIS DOES ACTUALLY HELP THE ECONOMY.

I WILL SAY THIS, FIRST OF ALL, ANYONE NOTICE THAT JOE BIDEN HELPED PASS THAT PANDEMIC MONEY, AND THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, BUT NOW THEY'RE MORE THAN WILLING TO SPEND IT.

WHAT'S ENTERTAINING ESPECIALLY FOR OUR JOURNALIST FRIENDS HERE IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ADOPTED CONGRESSIONAL STYLE HERE.

THE CURRENT SPEAKER WHO NEEDED DEMOCRATIC VOTES TO BECOME SPEAKER HAS NOT GIVEN SOME OF THOSE PROJECTS WHICH ARE A GIFT -- A CHRISTMAS GIFT BASICALLY OR HOLIDAY GIFT TO SOME OF HIS OPPONENTS.

NOW IT'S EXPECTED PROBABLY IN THE SENATE WHERE HIS RIVAL, WHO IS GOING TO CHALLENGE HIM FOR SPEAKER, THE CURRENT SENATE PRESIDENT, HUFFMAN, WILL GIVE THOSE PROJECTS BACK TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE DEPRIVED OF THOSE.

IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS THAT THIS WASHINGTON-STYLE INFIGHTING IS NOW IN THE STATE HOUSE, TOO.

IT'S JUST CRAZY.

>> LAURA, AS YOU LOOK AT THAT LIST OF PROJECTS, IS THERE ANY COMMONALITY?

ARE THERE ANY THEMES THAT DEVELOP?

OR IS IT JUST WHOEVER CAN GET THE EAR OF THE LAWMAKER TO GET THEIR PROJECT ON THE LIST?

>> YEAH, LIKE ALL THIS FEDERAL MONEY THAT SURGED IN, IT CAUSED THE GENERAL REVENUE FUNDS TO REALLY KIND OF SWELL.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY HAD SOME BIG POT OF MONEY THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE OTHERWISE.

USUALLY THE COMMUNITY PROJECTS IS LIKE $150 MILLION.

$700 MILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY.

AND BOTH THE FINANCE CHAIRS OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE SAID THAT THEY HOPED THAT THESE PROJECTS ARE TRANSFORMATIONAL.

LIKE REALLY BIG TICKET, BIG THINKING.

YOU COULD ARGUE THERE'S LIKE 315 PROJECTS ON THE HOUSE LIST.

YOU COULD ARGUE THAT SOME OF THIS ARE KIND OF LARGE SCALE, ET CETERA.

OTHERS ARE VERY MODEST.

THERE'S LIKE $150,000 FOR PICKLEBALL COURTS IN INDIAN LAKE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TRANSFORMATIONAL THAT IS ALTHOUGH SOME MIGHT FIND PICKLEBALL VERY TRANSFORMATIONAL.

MY POINT IS THAT SOME OF THE PROJECTS ARE PRETTY SMALL.

>> TRANSPARENCY, THIS WAS -- WE DIDN'T GET TO LOOK AT THE LIST UNTIL BASICALLY THEY WERE APPROVED.

IT'S NOT OVER YET.

THERE ARE SEVERAL MORE STEPS TO THE PROCESS, ANDREW.

IS THIS TYPICAL FOR CAPITAL BUDGETS?

>> THERE'S USUALLY A HEARING ON LEGISLATION BEFORE IT'S PASSED.

SO I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS THAT THE LEDGE -- OF THE LEGISLATURE ISN'T ALWAYS PERFECT.

IT'S POPULAR TO SEE THEM PASS SOMETHING SO QUICKLY.

I GUESS THEY WANTED TO GET THIS OUT BEFORE THE ELECTION.

>> IS SPENDING THIS MONEY, THIS ONETIME MONEY OCAP TALL PROJECTS THE BEST -- ON CAPITAL PROJECTS THE BEST USE OF THE MONEY?

WHY NOT GIVE IT BACK TO THE VOTERS -- DOING THE MATH, $120 FOR EACH OHIO TAXPAYER IF YOU WERE TO DOLE THIS MONEY OUT.

>> WHAT YOU'RE REALLY DOING HERE IS YOU'RE RECOGNIZING THAT THE STATE HAS MANY AREAS THAT ARE WINNERS AND LOSERS, THAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT HERE IS NOT LADLED AROUND LIKE SOFT BUTTER ON FRESH TOAST, SPREAD EVENLY.

IT'S MORE LIKE COLD BUTTER ON WONDER BREAD.

AND YOU HAVE LOTS OF AREAS OF THE STATE THAT NEED HELP.

ALSO WHAT NORMALLY GOES ON WITH THIS STUFF IS THE REGIONAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE TRADITIONALLY PLAY A HUGE ROLE BECAUSE THEY LOOK TOGETHER INSIDE THEIR OWN REGION AND SAY THESE -- THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT WILL BE TRANSFORMATIONAL AND HELP SPUR OTHER PROJECTS, OTHER REDEVELOPMENT, THINGS OF THAT FOR.

SO THAT WAS NOT IN THE ROOM -- BY THE WAY, THESE -- NONE OF THESE DISCUSSIONS ON THESE CAPITAL BILL ISSUES HAVE EVER BEEN TRANSPARENT, BUT THEY'VE USUALLY BEEN CONGENIAL, OKAY.

THAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE STORY.

AND I'M NOT EXPECTING THIS THING TO EVER ACTUALLY PASS UNTIL LAME DUCK.

>> IT WILL PASS BEFORE LAME DUCK.

THE SENATE PRESIDENT SAID THAT THE SENATE'S NOT GOING TO BE RUSHED ON THIS, THAT THE HOUSE DIDN'T COLLABORATE WITH THEIR CHAMBER.

BUT I THINK THAT THE PLAN IS TO PASS SOME SORT OF PLAN FOR THIS $700 MILLION SUPER-DUPER FUND BY EARLY TO MID JUNE.

>> USUALLY WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF EXTRA MONEY POLITICIANS GETS ALONG, DON'T THEY?

NOT SO MUCH HERE WITH THE WHOLE DRAMA OVER THE SPEAKER AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER SPEAKER FIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.

>> YEAH, WE'VE SEEN OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR PLUS WHEN THIS DEAL WITH JASON STEVENS WAS FIRST STRUCK, YOU HAD REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS WHO REFUSED TO VOTES FOR THE MINUTES TO BE APPROVED.

I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF ACRIMONY THAT'S LINGERED.

AND AS WE ROLL INTO THE NEXT ELECTION IT'S A FACTOR.

LAWMAKERS WERE FIGHTING FOR PARTY ENDORSEMENTS.

THE SITTING SPEAKER ISN'T GOING TO HAVE ONE.

SO -- THEN WHEN EVERYTHING FLOWS DOWNHILL FROM THERE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SUPER-DUPER FUND IT MAKES SENSE THAT IT'S NOT SO SUPER DUPER.

>> 19 REPUBLICAN HOUSE MEMBERS VOTED NO ON THIS.

THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK WHEN THEY WERE VOTING ON IT.

AND SOME DID NOT GET PROJECTS BECAUSE THEY HAD VOTED FOR -- >> NOW WE KNOW HOW DEMOCRATS FEEL.

>>> SINCE OHIO VOTERS PASSED ISSUE ONE IN NOVEMBER AND ENSHRINED ABORTION RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION, NOT MUCH HAS REALLY HAPPENED.

TECHNICALLY OHIO'S SIX-WEEK ABORTION BAN IS STILL ON THE BOOKS, BUT IT IS ON HOLD BECAUSE OF A JUDGE'S RULING.

THAT CASE IS BEFORE THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL DAVE YOST HAS SUBMITTED A FILING TO THE COURT IN THIS CASE BASICALLY SAYING IT'S UP TO THEM.

HE ALSO MAINTAINS THAT NOT ALL ASPECTS OF THE SO-CALLED HEARTBEATS LAW SHOULD BE DISCARDED.

LAURA BISCHOFF, BEFORE THE ISSUE ONE VOTE YOST SAID THIS IS THE END OF THE HEARTBEAT LAW.

NOW HE'S SAYING, WELL, MAYBE WE CAN SAVE SOME OF IT.

WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON HERE?

>> WELL, I THINK ATTORNEY GENERAL YOST WAS VERY CLEAR SAYING IT WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL IF ISSUE ONE PASSES.

THAT WAS BEFORE NOVEMBER.

NOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- HE'S SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE AND SAYING IT'S UP TO THE JUDGES TO DECIDE WHAT ASPECTS OF THE HEARTBEAT LAW ARE CONSTITUTIONAL OR ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHER ABORTION RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS.

THE LAWMAKERS HAVE SIGNALED THAT THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN WHOLESALE REPEALING OF THESE LAWS, SO THEY'RE GOING TO PROBABLY LITIGATE IT THROUGH THE COURTS AT EVERY TURN.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, DAVE YOST IS INTERESTED IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

AND SO -- AND I THINK THAT ABORTION RIGHTS IS A BIG LITMUS TEST FOR REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

I'M SORRY, ANTI-ABORTION IS -- GOT IT.

ANYWAY, I THINK THAT HE NEEDS TO KIND OF PLANT HIS FLAG AS A PRO-LIFE REPUBLICAN AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO JUST, YOU KNOW, ROLL OVER ON IT.

>> FIGHT THE FIGHT ALL THE WAY TO THE END.

>> CORRECT.

RUN THROUGH THE TAPE.

>> ANDREW ON, THIS CASE -- THIS CASE WILL JUST DECIDE THE HEARTBEAT LAW, THE CARDIAC ACTIVITY LAW.

IT WILL NOT LOOK AT TRANSFER AGREEMENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED OF ABORTION CLINICS OR 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD, ALL THAT STUFF.

THIS IS JUST NARROWLY LOOKING AT THIS.

MIGHT THEY LOOK AT THE OTHER STUFF?

>> YOU KNOW, I JUST WOULD NEVER SAY NEVER WITH A JUDICIAL REVIEW.

I JUST -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT JUDGES THINK ABOUT THESE KINDS OF THINGS.

ON, EXTENDABLY THEY'RE LOOKING AT THIS ONE PARTICULAR LAW.

I WOULD IMAGINE THE MORE LIKELY SCENARIO WOULD BE THAT ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS WOULD HAVE A STRATEGY ABOUT WHICH LAWS THEY WANT TO CHALLENGE, AND THEY WOULD WAGE THAT KIND OF PIECEMEAL AS OPPOSED TO LOOKING FOR SOME UNIFORM RULING.

BUT HONESTLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW JUDGES THINK ABOUT THIS KIND OF THING.

>> HOW DOES THIS PLAY OUT NOW?

OHIO VOTERS HAVE HAD THEIR SAY.

THEY HAVE COME OUT PRETTY CLEARLY IN SUPPORT OF ABORTION RIGHTS, IN SUPPORT OF THE SO-CALLED ROE STANDARD.

IS IT -- DOES THAT TAKE THE WIND OUT OF THE SAILS OF THIS ISSUE AS A CAMPAIGN ISSUE THIS YEAR IN OHIO?

>> I WOULD THINK SO, BUT YOU KNOW -- SO YOUR STRENGTHS ARE YOUR WEAKNESSES.

MY STRENGTH IS I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ABOUT WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE STATE HOUSE.

BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW ANYTHING WORKS DOWN THERE.

AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY CAN MAKE ANY PREDICTIONS COMMENT THINGS ARE GOING -- EXCEPT THINGS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET MORE DYSFUNCTIONAL ON AREAS THAT I NEVER ANTICIPATED THEM EVER GETTING DYSFUNCTIONAL ON.

SO YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THIS -- THE ABORTION STUFF, I -- LOOK, I TOLD -- I TOLD MY FELLOW REPUBLICANS IN AUGUST, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO QUICKLY IS YOU NEED TO GO UP ON THE BALLOT WITH SOMETHING THAT SAYS SIMPLY THE STATE MAY REGULATE ABORTION EXCEPT IN CASES OF RAPE, INCEST, AND THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.

THAT'S NOT GOT EVERYTHING YOU WANT BUT YOU'VE GOT A ROLE.

TO WHICH I WOULD SAY THAT'S NICE, DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT.

>> WHAT DO DEMOCRATS DO?

DO THEY STILL -- DO THEY POINT TO THIS PROPOSED OR POSSIBLE NATIONAL ABORTION BAN, SO-CALLED?

>> I DO THINK THERE'S DISCUSSION AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, BUT I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO WIND UP IN THE COURTS.

THE DEMOCRATS AND MOST PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS SPOKE VERY LOUD AND CLEAR OVER 60%.

BUT I THINK WHAT'S MORE ALARMING RIGHT NOW IS THIS DYSFUNCTION IN THE LEGISLALEGISLATURE.

THEY DON'T SEEM TO RESPECT VOTERS.

THEY DON'T SEEM TO RESPECT WHAT THE VOTERS HAVE DONE.

AND THEY WANT TO FIND AND PLAY A LOT OF GAMES WITH THIS.

AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GENERATES SOME VOTER ANGER OVER TIME.

>> IS THERE ANY TALK OF GOING BACK TO THE BALLOT AS SOON AS THIS NOVEMBER -- BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE COULD DO IT THEMSELVES.

THEY COULD PUT ANOTHER CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ON THE BALLOT.

WOULD THEY DARE?

WOULD THAT BE JUST A BAD MOVE -- >> I DON'T THINK ANY TIME SOON.

I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THAT ISSUE ONE'S PASSAGE, A LOT OF VOTERS MIGHT THINK IT'S SETTLED.

HONESTLY IT ISN'T.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE LITIGATED LAW BY LAW, RESTRICTION BY RESTRICTION, AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME BEFORE IT'S ALL SETTLED.

>> IF YOU DO A VEN DIAGRAM OF WHAT EVERYBODY THINKS IN THE STATE HOUSE NOW JUST ON MY SIDE ON, THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THERE'S ALMOST NO OVERLAP.

YOU CAN'T GET CONSENSUS ON ENOUGH STUFF RIGHT NOW.

>>> OKAY.

LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL OFF-THE-RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

AND WE WILL START WITH BRIAN ROTHENBERG.

>> SO AS A NATIVE CLEVELANDER, I CAN TELL YOU, YES, THE CLEVELAND BROWNS ARE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING IN ANOTHER PART OF DOWNTOWN WHERE THE OLD FORD PLANT WAS.

IT'S GOING TO WIND UP BACK DOWNTOWN.

THEY'RE NOT BUILDING A LAND BRIDGE TO NOWHERE.

BUT THIS IS ALL NEGOTIATIONS.

>> WILL IT BE A DOME?

>> I HOPE SO.

I WAS REALLY COLD AT ONE OF THOSE GAMES I WENT UP TO SEE.

>> GENE KREBS?

>> WE WILL PROBABLY SEE ON THE BALLOT, THE SIMILAR PLAN IN MICHIGAN GOT 57% OF THE VOTE.

WE ARE NOT YET TALKING ENOUGH ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS THAT WHEN THAT PASSES HERE, AND I HAD SOME WITH SOME OF -- PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW THINGS WORK.

WHEN YOU SEE A 40% OF THE SEATS BECOME PURPLE, A WHOLE LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE CURRENTLY BEEN TRAINED TO GO THROUGH THE CURRENT PRIMARY PROCESS CAN'T WIN IN THOSE SEATS.

AND THEY ARE STARTING TO RECOGNIZE THAT NOW.

>> ANDREW?

>> SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HIS GRANDER PICTURE IS HERE, BUT JOE MANCHIN, THE WEST VIRGINIA SENATOR, IS COMING TO CLEVELAND NEXT THURSDAY MORNING FOR A BREAKFAST AT THE CITY CLUB UP THERE AND DOING AN AFTERNOON ABOUT WITH YOUR COLLEAGUE KAREN KESSLER IN COLUMBUS.

IS HE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?

KIND OF DOUBT IT.

I'M SURE HE DOESN'T MIND PEOPLE WONDERING IF HE IS.

>> TESTING OF THE WATERS.

LAURA?

>> THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE TEACHERS RETIREMENT SYSTEM PENSION BOARD STRUGGLE.

WADE STEAM WAS REMOVED BY THE GOVERNOR FROM THE BOARD A YEAR AGO AND REPLACED.

A MAGISTRATE IN AN APPEALS COURT SAID THAT THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO.

SO NOW THAT RULING IS NOT FINAL AND BINDING, AND THE CASE IS GOING TO CONTINUE THROUGH THE COURTS.

IT DOES RAISE SOME INTERESTING ISSUES.

>> THE SUPREME COURT THIS WEEK, OF COURSE, HEARD THE DONALD TRUMP IS HE ELIGIBLE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN STATES LIKE COLORADO, AND WE HEARD LIVE AUDIO OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT TREMENDOUSLY INTERESTING.

TREMENDOUSLY INFORMATIVE.

IT SHOWS YOU HOW THAT COURT WORKS, HOW DELIBERATIVE AND THOUGHTFUL THEY ARE.

IT'S TOO BAD WE CAN'T GET VIDEO TO GO WITH THE AUDIO.

MAYBE NEXT TIME.

>>> THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, WATCH US ANY TIME ON YOUR TIME AT OUR WEBSITE, WOSU.ORG/COTR.

WE'RE ALSO ON YOUTUBE AND THE PBS VIDEO APP.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

!

!musiC@!!

!musiC@!