JD VANCE'S BIG WEEK AND A JURY FINDS WILLIAM HUSEL NOT GUILTY.

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JOINING US ON.

J-D VANCE CONTINUES TO BASK IN THE GLOW OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT .

VANCE'S SUPER PAC REPORTEDLY PICKED UP A 3 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLAR DONATION AFTER LAST WEEK'S ENDORSMENT.

POLITICO REPORTS PAYPAL CO-FOUNDER PETER THEIL RE-INVESTED IN VANCE'S CAMPAIGN..

THE OTHER SO-CALLED TRUMP CANDIDATES - JOSH MANDEL, JANE TIMKEN AND MIKE GIBBONS, THIS WEEK TRIED TO BRUSH OFF THE SNUBS, AND WORKED ON GETTING THEIR VOTES OUT.

MATT DOLAN TRIED TO USE TRUMP AGAINST HIS COMPETITORS.

ONE THING WE HAVE NOT SEEN IS A NEW POLL THAT INDICATES THE IMPACT OF THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, AS WE SIT A LITTLE MORE THAN A WEEK BEFORE PRIMARY DAY.

THE DEMOCRATIC RACE FOR GOVENOR TURNED NASTY THIS WEEK.. WELL .THAT'S IF A GENTLY NEGATIVE AD AND A HARSLY WORDED PRESS RELEASE IS YOUR DEFINITION OF NASTY..

BUT JOHN CRANLEY AND NAN WHALEY GOT A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE THIS WEEK AS PRIMARY DAY NEARS.

CRANLEY IS STRESSING WHILE HE WAS MAYOR, CINCINNATI'S ECONOMY GREW, WHILE THE ECONOMY SHRUNK IN NAN WHALEY'S DAYTON.. DAYTON TOOK OFFENSE FOR THE WHOLE CITY OF DAYTON.. SHE SAYS SHE'S THE CHANGE OHIO DEMOCRATS NEED.

THEY MADE THEIR PITCHES AT A COLUMBUS METROPOLITAN CLUB DEBATE THIS WEEK.

JOHN CRANLEY: THE FACT IS MY CITY IS GROWING FASTER THAN THE STATE OF OHIO .

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO FIRE A REPUBLICAN IN THIS STATE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A CANDIDATE WHOSE RECORD IS ALREADY BETTER TO GIVE PEOPLE HOPE AND MAKE THAT CHANGE AND VOTE DEMOCRAT.

NAN WHALEY “FOR THE PAST THREE DECADES IN OHIO WE'VE HAD ONE PARTY IN CONTROL, AND FOR THOSE PAST THREE DECADES WE'VE ALSO RAN A MODERATE WHITE MAN FOR GOVERNOR OF OHIO .

WE'VE RUN SOMEBODY LIKE JOHN CRANLEY IN 2018, 2014 AND IT GOES ON AND ON.

WE HAVE NEVER TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT AS DEMOCRATS.

WE SEE IN OTHER STATES WHEN WE RUN WOMEN FOR LEADERSHIP ROLES, WE DO BETTER WITH WOMEN VOTERS.” A FEDERAL COURT WILL NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE STATE'S REDISTICTING DRAMA A LEAST FOR NOW.. A THREE JUDGE PANEL SAYS IT WILL NOT INTERVENE IN THE FIGHT OVER OHIO'S STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS.

IT GAVE THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT UNTIL THE END OF MAY TO FIND A SOLUTION.

IF BY MAY 28TH, THERE IS NO SOLUTION THE COURT INDICATED IT WOULD IMPOSE MAP NUMBER THREE, WHICH WAS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAST MONTH..

THE COURT HAS SINCE RULED A FOURTH MAP UNCONSTITUTIONAL (QUESTION JO INGLES THE FEDERAL COURT SAYS IT WON'T GET INVOLVED, BUT IF THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED REDISTRICTING COMMISSION DOES NOT ACT, IT WILL IMPOSE A MAP THE COMMISSION HAS ALREADY APPROVED.. HOW IS THAT NOT GETTING INVOLVED.

PERHAPS THE BIGGEST STORY OF THE WEEK DID NOT INVOLVE POLITICS AT LEAST NOT DIRECTLY.

A FRANKLIN COUNTY JURY ACQUITTED FORMER MOUNT CARMEL DOCTOR WILLIAM HUSEL ON ALL COUNTS THAT HE KILLED 14 PATIENTS WITH HIGH DOSES OF PAIN KILLER.

THE VERDICTS END A THREE YEAR SAGA WHICH BEGAN WITH HUSEL CHARGED WITH KILLING 25 PATIENTS.

A NEW PROSECUTOR TOOK OVER AND DROPPED 11 CASES..

PROSECUTORS ARGUED HUSEL'S DRUG ORDERS FAR EXCEEDED NORMAL AMOUNTS AND HASTENED THE DEATHS OF THE PATIENTS.

HUSEL ARGUED HE WAS TRYING TO EASE HIS PATIENTS PAIN AND POINTED OUT THE LACK OF CLEAR GUIDANCE ON PRESCRIPING OPOIDS IN THE FINAL STAGES OF LIFE.

BAEZ: THIS VEDICT SPEAKS TO NOT ONLY WILLIAM BUT ALL THOSE DOCTORS AND NURSES OUT THERE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING THEIR BEST TO GIVE COMFORT CARE IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION , AND THEY DON'T NEED TO BE LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDERS WONDERING IF THEY ARE EVER GOING TO BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

PROSECUTOR GARY TYACK SAID HE REPSECTS THE JURY'S DECISION >>> A JURY FINDS WILLIAM HUSEL NOT GUILTY.

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>>> JOINING US THIS WEEK, JO INGLES, STATE HOUSE REPORTER FOR OHIO PUBLIC RADIO.

GENE KREBS, FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR AND JOSEPH MAS.

J-D VANCE CONTINUES TO BASK IN THE GLOW OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

VANCE'S SUPER PAC REPORTEDLY PICKED UP A $3.5 MILLION DONATION AFTER LAST WEEK'S ENDORSMENT.

POLITICO REPORTS PAYPAL CO-FOUNDER PETER THEIL RE-INVESTED IN VANCE'S CAMPAIGN.

THE OTHER SO-CALLED TRUMP CANDIDATES - JOSH MANDEL, JANE TIMKEN AND MIKE GIBBONS - THIS WEEK TRIED TO BRUSH OFF THE ENDORSEMENT -- TRIED TO BRUSH OFF THE SNUBS, AND WORKED ON GETTING THEIR VOTES OUT.

MATT DOLAN TRIED TO USE TRUMP AGAINST HIS COMPETITORS.

ONE THING WE HAVE NOT SEEN IS A NEW POLL THAT INDICATES THE IMPACT OF THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT, AS WE SIT A LITTLE MORE THAN A WEEK BEFORE PRIMARY DAY.

GENE KREBS, HOW MUCH OF THIS ENDORSEMENT HELPS HIM?

>> I THINK IT IS TOO LATE TO HAVE A MAJOR IMPACT.

I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG YOU HAVE FIVE CANDIDATES AND WHOEVER GETS TO 21% FIRST WINS.

I JUST DON'T -- THE ONLY TIME -- THIS IS A HORRIBLE STATEMENT.

THAT IS THE ONLY TIME I'M SURPRISED IN POLITICS IS WHEN SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING STUPID.

AND THE ENDORSEMENT OF VANCE THIS LATE IN THE GAME WAS JUST BAFFLING.

AND YOU SAW THE RESPONSE FROM, YOU KNOW, SO MANY PARTY CHAIRS.

YOU SAW THE RESPONSE FROM SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE TEA PARTY.

AND I'M GOING, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE DONE THIS, YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT MONTHS AGO, ALL YOU'RE DOING IS CAUSING MORE CHAOS.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A FIRING SQUAD.

NOW PEOPLE HAVE BIGGER GUNS AND HIGHER CALIBER BULLETS.

>> TAKE IT WITH A HUSKY GRAIN OF SALT.

THIS IS A PAC THAT SUPPORTS HIM, HAS HIM LEADING WITH 25%.

THAT'S UP 7 POINTS FROM LAST MONTH WITH MANDEL 18 FOLLOWED BY GIBBONS.

HOW MUCH FAITH DO WE HAVE IN THIS POLL?

IT IS BOUND TO GET SOME KIND OF BOUNCE.

>> YEAH.

BUT AS FAR AS HAVING FAITH IN THE POLLS, I DON'T HAVE FAITH IN MY OF THESE POLLS AT THIS POINT, ESPECIALLY THE POLLS CONDUCTED BY CANDIDATES THEMSELVES OR CONDUCTED FOR CANDIDATES.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WE WILL SEE RIGHT NOW, AND THIS IS WHAT -- WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THE REPUBLICAN GO INTO FACTIONS.

AND SOME OF THE TEA PARTY FOLKS WHO CAME INTO THE PARTY, THE MORE LIBERTARIAN FOLKS, THEY DON'T LIKE JD VANCE, AND WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THEM DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP AND FROM JD VANCE AND GO TOWARDS SOME OF THE MORE -- WHAT THEY WOULD CONSIDER CONSERVATIVE MANDATES LIKE JOSH MANDEL AND MIKE GIBBONS.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS A BLOCK AT THIS POINT.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK MADE THE DIFFERENCE FOR DONALD TRUMP?

IS IT THE FACT THAT VANCE IS THE BEST KNOWN CANDIDATE NATIONALLY?

HE'S YOUR CELEBRITY IN THE FIELD?

>> NO, NOT NECESSARILY.

I THINK IT RELATES MORE TO THE FACT THAT JD VANCE HAS VISIBILITY AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE VERY GOOD MOVIE THEY MADE FROM HIS BOOK AND THE BOOK HIMSELF.

DON'T FORGET THAT TRUMP IS A MEDIA PERSON.

TO HIM NOTHING EXISTS UNTIL IT GETS COVERAGE IN THE MEDIA.

AND WE SAW THAT WITH THE ENDORSEMENT OF DR. OZ AND FOR THE PENNSYLVANIA SENATE RACE AS WELL.

>> HOW DO OTHER CANDIDATES OVERCOME THIS ENDORSEMENTS?

ESPECIALLY ONES THAT WENT SO HARD FOR DONALD TRUMP?

>> THEY'RE STILL SPENDING THEIR CHILDREN'S INHERITANCE LIKE CRAZY.

THEY'RE ALL STILL POURING IN THE MONEY.

IN FULL DISCLOSURE, AS I SAID BEFORE THE SHOW, I'M AN UNPAID VOLUNTEER IN THE EFFORT TO BRING RANKED CHOICE VOTING TO OHIO.

THIS RACE IS A CLASSIC CASE OF WHY WE NEED RANKED CHOICE VOTING.

THOSE RACES ARE USUALLY MUCH MORE COLLEAGUE Y'ALL.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD THEM GETTING INTO NEAR FISTICUFFS DURING THE DEBATES.

>> THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT TURNED OFF DONALD TO MANDEL AND MIKE GIBBONS.

JD VANCE, SHOULD HE WIN THE PRIMARY, HE WILL HAVE TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT IN THE FALL, OF COURSE.

IS HE THE MOST PALATABLE TRUMP CANDIDATE TO THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE?

>> ONLY BECAUSE WHAT I MENTIONED A FEW SECONDS AGO.

BECAUSE HE HAS MADE HIMSELF KNOWN BY OTHER THINGS THAT HE HAS DONE.

HIS WORK IN -- I MEAN AS AN ACADEMIC AND THEN AS AN ATTORNEY AND SO ON.

BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.

I WAS REALLY DISAPPOINTED BY THE ADS HE RELEASED AFTER THE ENDORSEMENT ASKING YOU IF YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE RACIST AND THEN PROCEEDING TO TELL YOU THAT IT'S OKAY TO BE RACIST AGAINST MEXICANS.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS DISGUSTING.

AND I JOIN GENE IN HOPING THAT SOME DAY WE'LL GET TO TALK ABOUT REAL ISSUES.

IN THE PRIMARIES AND CERTAINLY IN THE GENERAL.

>> IT WILL COME DOWN TO IN NOVEMBER NO MATTER WHO WINS THIS PRIMARY WHETHER DONALD TRUMP CAN GET HIS VOTE OUT WITHOUT BEING ON THE BALLOT.

>> ONE THING WE KNOW ABOUT JD VANCE ALREADY IS THAT THE OPPONENTS HAVE BEEN COMING OUT WITH ALL THESE STATEMENTS HE MADE, ANTI-TRUMP STATEMENTS, WATERING DOWN HIS BRAND IN THE TRUMP WORLD.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR HIM GOING INTO THIS GENERAL, TOO, BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO DO THE SAME THING.

>> YEAH.

ALL RIGHT.

JUST ABOUT A WEEK TO GO.

THE DEMOCRATIC RACE FOR GOVENOR TURNED NASTY THIS WEEK.

WELL, THAT'S IF A GENTLY NEGATIVE AD AND A HARSLY WORDED PRESS RELEASE IS YOUR DEFINITION OF NASTY.

BUT JOHN CRANLEY AND NAN WHALEY GOT A LITTLE MORE AGGRESSIVE THIS WEEK AS PRIMARY DAY NEARS.

CRANLEY IS STRESSING WHILE HE WAS MAYOR OF CINCINNATI, SENATETY'S ECONOMY GREW, WHILE THE ECONOMY SHRUNK IN NAN WHALEY'S DAYTON.

DAYTON TOOK OFFENSE FOR THE WHOLE CITY OF DAYTON.

SHE SAYS SHE'S THE CHANGE OHIO DEMOCRATS NEED.

THEY MADE THEIR PITCHES AT A COLUMBUS METROPOLITAN CLUB DEBATE THIS WEEK.

THE FACT IS MY CITY IS GROWING FASTER THAN THE STATE OF OHIO.

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO FIRE A REPUBLICAN IN THIS STATE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A CANDIDATE WHOSE RECORD IS ALREADY BETTER TO GIVE PEOPLE HOPE AND MAKE THAT CHANGE AND VOTE DEMOCRATIC.

FOR THE PAST THREE DECADES IN OHIO WE'VE HAD ONE PARTY IN CONTROL, AND FOR THOSE PAST THREE DECADES WE'VE ALSO RAN A MODERATE WHITE MAN FOR GOVERNOR OF OHIO.

WE'VE RUN SOMEBODY LIKE JOHN CRANLEY IN 2018, 2014 AND IT GOES ON AND ON.

WE HAVE NEVER TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT AS DEMOCRATS.

WE SEE IN OTHER STATES WHEN WE RUN WOMEN FOR LEADERSHIP ROLES, WE DO BETTER WITH WOMEN VOTERS.

>> WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS RACE TO BECOME MORE POINTED.

IT DID A LITTLE BIT THIS WEEK.

STILL A CORDIAL PRIMARY.

WHO HAS THE EDGE?

WHO HAS THE BETTER MESSAGE HEADING INTO THE FINAL DAYS OF THIS CAMPAIGN.

>> WHALEY.

>> YOU THINK SO?

>> I THINK SO.

I'M JUST ONE GUY AND I RUN INTO PEOPLE AT THE COURTHOUSE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT EVERYBODY I KNOW HAS VOTED WITH WHALEY.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CRENLEY.

I JUST THINK THAT THE GENERAL CONSENSUS ON THE GROUND IS THAT SHE IS MORE LIKELY TO WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

SO YOU HAVE GOT TO MAKE A CHOICE OF SOME SORT.

I HOPE HE DOESN'T GO AWAY.

I THINK HE'S A GOOD CANDIDATE.

>> JO INGLES, REALLY A BIT OF A NAME ID ADVANTAGE.

SHE HAS RUN STATEWIDE BEFORE.

SHE GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION AFTER THE SHOOTING.

HER POSITION ON GUNS ESPECIALLY.

HOW DO YOU SEE THIS SHAPING UP IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS?

>> I THINK THAT'S IT.

WHEN YOU ARE GOING INTO NOVEMBER, YOU KNOW, SHE'S GOING TO BE HAMMERING HOME THIS GUN ISSUE.

MIKE DeWINE CAME OUT WITH HER WITH HIS GUN PLAN.

THEY WERE ON THE SAME PAGE.

SINCE THEN HE SIGNED INTO LAW TWO CONTROVERSIAL GUN MEASURES.

YOU ARE GOING TO HEAR THAT SEPARATION.

YOU WILL HEAR A LOT OF SEPARATION BETWEEN HER AND GOVERNOR DeWINE.

I THINK SHE'S TRYING TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THAT RIGHT NOW SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THEIR CHOICE IN THE PRIMARIES.

>> MAYOR OF A BIGGER CITY THAN DAYTON.

HE'S SAYING HIS CITY HAS DONE REALLY WELL, A COMEBACK STORY.

BUT THE ECONOMY IN OHIO MAY NOT BE REALLY, REALLY GOOD, BUT IT IS PRETTY GOOD.

IS THAT GOING TO WORK?

>> NO.

AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THE WAY WE CAMPAIGNED HAS BEEN EMPHASIZING SCANDALS, HOW FAR UP DOES THAT GO, WHO KNEW WHAT WHEN.

AND WOMEN ARE VIEWED AS BEING MORE HONEST THAN MEN IN POLITICS.

I HAVE RUN AGAINST WOMEN BEFORE, AND THEY'RE VERY HARD TO RUN AGAINST BECAUSE YOU, AS A MAN, YOU JUST CAN'T SAY ANY SORT OF UNKIND, UNTOWARD THING AND NOT HAVE IT IMMEDIATELY BLOW BACK ON YOU.

AND I'M EXPECTING THAT -- THIS IS WHY I AGREE WITH JOE.

I THINK THERE IS A DEFINITE POSSIBILITY THAT WHALEY CAN BEAT DeWINE AND THERE IS PROFOUND REASONS FOR IT.

>> WHY IS THAT?

BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NOT ENERGIZED TO VOTE FOR DeWINE?

>> PARTLY AND ALSO BECAUSE THEY'RE VASTLY OVERCONFIDENT.

>> WE'RE HEARING MORE AND MORE ABOUT THE HB-6 THING AND THE DEMOCRATS' MESSAGING.

IS IT TOO LATE?

>> NO, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK SO.

BUT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ON THE GROUND, I'M NOT HEARING ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

BUT IT'S JUST A TYPICAL TIMING THING.

YOU KNOW WHERE WE ARE ON THE CALENDAR ON A WHOLE.

>> BROWN ENDORSED WHALEY.

THAT DEFINITELY HELPS HER.

>> THAT DEFINITELY HELPS HER BECAUSE BROWN IS STILL PRETTY POPULAR WITH OHIOANS AND WON HIS LAST MARGIN.

>> AND I WOULD JUST SAY YOU SHOULDN'T SAY DeWINE.

I SAY I CORRECTLY FORECAST THAT TRUMP WAS GOING TO LOSE TO O'NEILL BECAUSE OF OVER CONFIDENCE 12 YEARS AGO.

IT'S A FACTOR.

>> MORE THAN JUST THE IRISH NAME?

>> I TALKED TO TOO MANY IN THE GOP THAT GO, NO, WE OWN THE STATE.

I GO, NO, YOU DO NOT.

YOU DO NOT OWN VOTERS.

AT LEAST THEY LOAN YOU THEIR VOTES.

THEY HAVE THAT CONFUSED.

>> OUTSIDE OF OUR OUTER BELT.

GENE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THE DEBATE IS HOW BOTH DIDN'T WANT TO CRITICIZE THE INTEL FACTORY DEAL BUT THEY WERE BASICALLY SAYING WHY IS THE RICHEST CITY IN THE STATE GETTING RICHER?

DOES THAT WORK FOR THEM AS A WAY TO BLUNT THE ECONOMIC ACHIEVEMENT DeWINE GOT FROM THAT ANNOUNCEMENT?

>> ABOUT A THIRD OF THE POPULATION IS.

IF YOU UNDERSTAND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU GO, YEAH, THIS IS A WIN FOR OHIO.

IF YOU HAVE A CHILD WHO LIVES OR SISTER WHO LIVES IN COLUMBUS, YOU GO THUMB'S UP.

OTHERWISE, IT IS, OH, WHY DID THEY GET -- THEY'RE ALREADY RICH.

WHY DID THEY GET MORE RICH?

WHY COULDN'T PART OF THAT COME OUT TO HERE?

AND I HEARD THAT FROM CLEVELAND.

I HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT IN OHIO AND EVEN PART OF THAT OUT IN APPALACHIA, OHIO.

AND I'M GOING, WHOA, THE PR ON THIS ONE IS BOTCHED.

>> THEIR CONSTITUENTS ARE IN COLUMBUS.

BUT DO THEY RISK TURNING OUT OF CONSTITUENTS BY SORT OF DISSING US?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THAT THEIR VOTERS ARE PRETTY SOLIDLY DEMOCRAT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S A RISK THERE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OUR NEXT TOPIC.

A FEDERAL COURT WILL NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE STATE'S REDISTICTING DRAMA AT LEAST FOR NOW.

A THREE JUDGE PANEL SAYS IT WILL NOT INTERVENE IN THE FIGHT OVER OHIO'S STATE LEGISLATIVE MAPS.

IT GAVE THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION AND THE OHIO SUPREME COURT UNTIL THE END OF MAY TO FIND A SOLUTION.

IF BY MAY 28TH, THERE IS NO SOLUTION THE COURT INDICATED IT WOULD IMPOSE MAP NUMBER THREE, WHICH WAS RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAST MONTH.

THE COURT HAS SINCE RULED A OHIO SUPREME COURT HAS RULED A FOURTH MAP UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

THE FEDERAL COURT SAYS IT WON'T GET INVOLVED, UNLESS YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING.

THEN WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THE REDIRECTING COMMISSION WHAT THEY WANTED A MONTH AGO.

>> BASICALLY THEY WERE GIVEN UNTIL MAY 6th TO COME UP WITH A NEW MAP.

AND THEY SHOULD BE WORKING TO DO THAT.

THAT'S WHAT THE COURT ASKED THEM TO DO.

AND THAT IS ALSO THE REASON THAT THE FEDERAL COURT IS HOLDING OFF UNTIL MAY 28th.

SO THE THING IS THAT THE FEDERAL COURT HAS ALSO SAID, HEY, IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, THOUGH, WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND ADOPT THE MAP YOU REALLY WANT ANYWAY.

SO IT IS KIND OF BOTH WAYS.

IT IS AN ODD THING, BUT THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE SITTING ON THAT REDIRECTING COMMISSION, THEY CAN -- THEY COULD, IF THEY WANTED TO, JUST GO WITH THE SHOW A LITTLE BIT, COME OUT WITH THE SAME MAP THEY ALWAYS WANTED, THIS IS THE THIRD MAP AND THEN, YOU KNOW, LET IT GO.

>> WHY WOULD THEY PUT UP A NEW DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT MORE COMPETITIVE MAP WHEN THE COURT SAYS WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THIS ONE?

>> IT'S OVER.

LOOK AT MAP NUMBER THREE AND EVERYBODY GO AHEAD AND IF YOU HAVEN'T DECIDED WHO YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR, THAT'S GOING TO BE YOUR DISTRICT BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NO INCENTIVE AND IT IS JUST GOING TO BE MAP NUMBER THREE.

I THINK WHAT THIS WILL LEAD TO IS IN 2023 AND 2024, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE AN EFFORT TO GO AHEAD WITH WHAT MICHIGAN AND COLORADO HAS.

I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW.

SIX YEARS AGO WHEN THIS AMENDMENT WAS PROPOSED, A LOT OF US OLD HANDS WERE LOOKING AT IT GOING, THIS ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

BUT WE COULD BE WRONG.

WE'LL SEE.

AND WE WERE RIGHT UNFORTUNATELY.

>> HOW DO YOU READ THIS?

>> WELL, I READ IT THAT THEY SHOWED THEIR HAND AS TO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

I THINK THIS IS A VICTORY FOR THOSE REPUBLICANS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEIR OWN MAP AND THE GERRYMANDERING TO CONTINUE.

I AGREE WITH GENE 100%.

AND I AGREE WITH RESPECT TO THE COLORADO/MICHIGAN OPTION.

AND THAT -- WE'LL PROBABLY SEE THIS HAPPEN AS WELL.

THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST OUTCOME.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FEDERAL COURT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT IN PUTTING THE COMMISSION TOGETHER AND THE OUTCOME FROM THE COMMISSION.

>> IS THERE ANY -- IS THERE ANY CHANCE THAT THIS FEDERAL COURT -- THEY INDICATED THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE THIRD MAP, BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT'S HOW THEY WILL RULE.

IS THERE ANY CHANCE THEY MIGHT SAY, OKAY, HOLD ON.

WE GOT MORE TIME.

KEEP GOING?

>> I DON'T SEE THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOMETHING HERE.

THE OHIO SUPREME COURT HAS ALREADY THREATENED TO HOLD THE NUMBERS OF THE COMMISSION IN CONTEMPT OF COURT OVER THE PREVIOUS MAPS.

AND, SO, IF THE REPUBLICANS ON THE COMMISSION SAY, HEY, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO AHEAD AND LET OUR MAPS BE OUT THERE AND THAT'S IT, THEY RUN THE RISK OF HAVING THE OHIO SUPREME COURT COME BACK AND SAY YOU ARE IN CONTEMPT OF COURT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO MAKE THAT MAY 6th DEADLINE FOR US.

SO I THINK THAT'S THE THING THAT YOU GOT TO LOOK AT NOW AND SEE WHAT KIND OF EFFORT GOES INTO THIS IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO.

>> DO YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING?

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT PROBABLY SHOULD.

I THINK THE SUPREME COURT SHOULD DO SOMETHING, BUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE SANCTIONS, PROBABLY GOING TO BE MONETARY SANCTIONS.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> IF THEY DO TAKE MAP NUMBER THREE, IT IS ONLY A FOUR YEAR MAP, SO WE'RE BACK DOING THE SAME THING.

>> I PREDICT WE'LL BE BACK HERE IN A SHORTER TIME THAN THAT.

I THINK THIS WILL CLARIFY FOR FOLKS THAT, NO, THIS WAS A BAD PLAN FOR THE GET GO.

THEY NEED TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK.

YOU HAVE THE EXACT SAME INCENTIVES, THE PERVERSE INCENTIVES FOR WHOEVER IS IN CONTROL TO REMAIN IN CONTROL.

JUST WHAT I SAID.

WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS THING, WE'RE GOING, NO, WE DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO WORK.

THEY WILL HAVE TO GO OUT AND GO BACK ON THE BALLOT IN '23 AND '24, GET SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW PASSED.

>> IS THE VOTER OUTRAGE ENOUGH TO GET SOMETHING NEW PASSED?

THERE WILL BE OPPOSITION TO IT.

SITTING CONGRESS PEOPLE, SITTING STATE REPS AND SENATORS DON'T WANT TO SEE TOO MUCH CHANGE.

>> I THINK IF THERE IS LEADERSHIP THAT WILL DO THAT LIKE IT WAS IN THE CRAFTING OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, WHICH WAS A COMPROMISE BY THE WAY, ANYWAY, BY NEVERTHELESS, THEN YES.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE STILL HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THE REDIRECTING ISSUE IN GENERAL.

THEY HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE MAPS, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT.

IT'S THE SAME THING YOU GET WITH HOUSE BILL 6.

IF YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND AN ISSUE, YOU ARE LED BY THOSE 30-SECOND ADS THAT ARE ON TV.

THOSE WILL BE WHOEVER HAS THE MOST MONEY.

SO THERE YOU GO.

>> WE'RE NOW LOOKING AT AUGUST 2nd, I THINK, FOR THE PRIMARY.

GENE, YOU HAVE RUN FOR OFFICE BEFORE.

WHAT IS THIS DOING FOR THE STATE REP AND STATE SENATE CAMPAIGNS?

>> IT HAS SUCKED ALL OF THE OXYGEN OUT OF THE ROOMS.

NOBODY CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.

WHAT WILL MY DISTRICT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT WILL YOUR DISTRICT LOOK LIKE?

NOBODY HAS A CLUE AND IT HAS JUST PARALYZED ALL WORK ON EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> DEMOCRATS, JOE, SHOULD JUST PUT THE MAP ASIDE AND FOCUS ON RUNNING GOOD CAMPAIGNS.

>> WELL, BASICALLY YES.

I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO BE AS GOOD A CANDIDATE AS YOU CAN.

>> OUR FINAL TOPIC.

PERHAPS THE BIGGEST STORY OF THE WEEK DOES NOT INVOLVE POLITICS, AT LEAST NOT DIRECTLY.

A FRANKLIN COUNTY JURY ACQUITTED FORMER MOUNT CARMEL DOCTOR WILLIAM HUSEL ON ALL COUNTS THAT HE KILLED 14 PATIENTS WITH HIGH DOSES OF PAIN KILLER.

THE VERDICTS END A THREE YEAR SAGA WHICH BEGAN WITH HUSEL CHARGED WITH 25 MURDERS.

A NEW PROSECUTOR TOOK OVER AND DROPPED 11 CASES.

PROSECUTORS ARGUED HUSEL'S DRUG ORDERS FAR EXCEEDED NORMAL AMOUNTS AND HASTENED THE DEATHS OF THE PATIENTS.

HUSEL ARGUED HE WAS TRYING TO EASE HIS PATIENTS PAIN AND POINTED OUT THE LACK OF CLEAR GUIDANCE ON PRESCRIBING OPOIDS IN THE FINAL STAGES OF LIFE.

THIS VERDICT SPEAKS TO NOT ONLY WILLIAM BUT ALL THOSE DOCTORS AND NURSES OUT THERE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING THEIR BEST TO GIVE COMFORT CARE IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION, AND THEY DON'T NEED TO BE LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDERS WONDERING IF THEY ARE EVER GOING TO BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

PROSECUTOR GARY TYACK SAID HE RESPECTS THE JURY'S DECISION THAT IT FOUND REASONABLE DOUBT.

>>> THIS, TO ME, WAS ALWAYS A GRAY AREA.

AND WHEN THERE IS GRAY, THERE IS REASONABLE DOUBT.

WHEN THERE IS REASONABLE DOUBT, THERE IS AN ACQUITTAL.

>> AND YOU SAID IN FIVE SECONDS WHAT I HEARD FROM ABOUT HALF A DOZEN ATTORNEYS THAT I INTERVIEWED TODAY.

AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, ABOUT THREE OUT OF FOUR PROSECUTORS OR FORMER PROSECUTORS, THREE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, THEY ALL HAD THE EXACT SAME OPINION.

NUMBER ONE, THEY WERE SURPRISED AT THE OUTCOME.

BUT NUMBER TWO, THEY FELT THAT THE OUTCOME WAS THE RIGHT ONE.

BEFORE WE ALL START COMMENTING ON THIS, THE PROBLEMS WITH THE PROSECUTION IS THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT HE ACTED WITH PURPOSE.

THIS WASN'T A NEGLIGENCE CASE.

THIS ISN'T A CIVIL CASE.

AND JUST BECAUSE TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN AND PEOPLE LOST THEIR FAMILY DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE HARSHEST TREATMENT BY THE SYSTEM.

SOMETIMES THE SYSTEM JUST DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU.

>> SHOULD THIS HAVE EVEN BEEN TRIED IN THE CRIMINAL COURT DO YOU THINK?

>> PROBABLY NOT.

AND I GO BACK TO -- I GO BACK TO THE LATE '90s WHEN WE FIRST DID PALTIVE CARE SPONSORED BY DJ THOMAS.

AND THEN THEY DID AN UPDATE TO THE BILL JUST TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO.

AND WHEN THE CHARGES WERE BROUGHT, ONCE AGAIN I KIND OF WAS THINKING, IF A DOCTOR WASN'T WELL-TRAINED, THEY HAD GROUNDS.

BUT AS LONG AS HE FOLLOWED PROCEDURES AND PROTOCOLS, THIS HAS BEEN VERY WELL LAID OUT.

THE THING I'M STILL WAITING FOR IN THIS IS YOU HAVE NOT SEEN A RUSH OF LEGISLATION BY MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SAYING THIS IS MY BILL TO FIX THIS PROBLEM BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM.

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK THE DOCTOR DID FOLLOW THE LAW AND FOLLOWED HIS TRAINING, AND I DON'T THINK THERE IS MUCH MORE WE CAN DO WITH THIS.

>> JOE, EVERY PATIENT IS DIFFERENT.

YOU HAVE A PATIENT GONE THROUGH CANCER TREATMENTS FOR TEN YEARS WILL BE MUCH MORE TOLERANT OF PAIN THAN SOMEONE RECENTLY IN A BAD ACCIDENT.

HOW DO YOU REGULATE THAT?

>> YOU CAN'T REALLY REGULATE THAT.

ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE TRIAL IS THERE WERE 50 DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO WERE CALLED TO THE STAND ON BEHALF OF THE PROSECUTOR.

NOW, THAT'S GOING TO RAISE A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN THE MIND OF THE JURY BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS THERE TO QUESTION.

AND THE MORE QUESTIONS YOU RAISE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT PROBABLY LEANS TOWARDS NOT CONVICTING.

>> THE PROSECUTION FOLLOWED A PATTERN THAT IS CLASSIC.

THEY TRIED TO GET AS MANY WITNESSES AS POSSIBLE.

THEY TRIED TO GET AS MANY COUNTS AS POSSIBLE.

NOTWITHSTANDING THE DISMISSAL OF THE 11 CHARGES THAT YOU -- THAT YOU REFERRED TO, WHICH I THINK THEY HAD TO DO ANYWAY.

SO USUALLY WHAT THAT ENDS UP WITH IS A JURY THAT IS SICK AND TIRED OF LISTENING TO THE FACTS AND CONSIDERING THE LAW AND THEY WANT TO GO HOME AND THEY WILL FIND THE INDIVIDUAL GUILTY OF ONE OR TWO OR SOMETHING AS A MEANS TO GET OUT OF THERE.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE RARE CASES WHERE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

THAT'S THE REASON THAT ALL OF THE ATTORNEYS AGREED THAT THEY THOUGHT IT WASN'T GOING TO HAVE THIS OUTCOME.

BUT THEY WERE NOT SURPRISED THAT IT WAS.

>> YEAH.

>> NOT GUILTY.

>> INTERESTING CASE AND IT JUST SHOWS YOU THE VAGARIES OF MEDICAL CARE.

HE STILL FACES CIVIL TRIALS AND WE'LL SEE WHERE THOSE GOES.

>> OH, YEAH.

IN JUNE, RIGHT.

>> FOR OUR FINAL OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

>> MY FAVORITE REPRESENTATIVE BILL SIKES.

HE WROTE AN OP ED THIS WEEK SAYING THE FOUR JUSTICES THAT OPPOSED THE REPUBLICANS' REDIRECT PLAN SHOULD BE BENCHED.

IT'S NOT FUNNY.

THE ELIMINATION OF THE THIRD BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT WOULD LEAD US TO TYRANNY.

>> GENE KREBS?

>> MIAMI UNIVERSITY HOSTED THE GENE KREBS' MEMORIAL FENCING TOURNAMENT.

I WAS TALKING TO ONCE OF MY FORMER FENCERS AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW SO OFTEN AN EXPERIENCED WELL-RANKED FENCER CAN BE TAKEN OUT BY A NOVICE WHO DOESN'T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

I'M SEEING THE SAME THING UNFOLD HERE IN OHIO.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE TOO OVERCONFIDENT AND THEY NEED TO BUCKLE DOWN, BUT THEY'RE NOT.

AND I THINK RIGHT NOW THEY WILL WIN.

>> I JUST HAVE AN OBSERVATION.

I WILL BE OUT TOMORROW COVERING THE TRUMP RALLY IN DELAWARE.

I WILL BE LOOKING AND TALKING TO PEOPLE TO SEE, ESPECIALLY AMONG REPUBLICANS JUST WHERE THEY STAND ON TRUMP AND WHERE THEY STAND ON JD VANCE AND ALL THE REST OF THEM.

>> YEAH, SEE IF THERE IS A DISCONNECT.

>> AS YOU NOTICED, WE ARE NOT ON ZOOM THIS WEEK.

WHILE ZOOM KEPT US SAFE AND IT ALSO MANY TIMES TRIED OUR PATIENCE, MY THANKS TO OUR PANELISTS WHO OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS ALSO SERVED AS CAMERA PEOPLE AND AUDIO ENGINEERS.

TO OUR CREW HERE AT WOSU WHO OVERCAME EVERY TECHNICAL HURDLE THE REMOTE BROADCASTS BROUGHT WITH THEM AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THANKS TO YOU, OUR VIEWERS, FOR PATIENTLY STICKING WITH US.

PLEASE CHECK US OUT ONLINE OR FACEBOOK OR WOSU.ORG/COTR.

FOR OUR CREW AND OUR PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.