♪♪♪ Scott: Jeff Harris was a member of the Sacramento City Council from 2014 to 2022.

During his service, District 3 was ground zero to the homeless issue that is now pervasive throughout the Sacramento region.

Former Councilman Harris joins us today to discuss his views on Sacramento's efforts to address the homeless crisis and of the evolving politics of the city.

Jeff, what were the key challenges that you faced that you see today when dealing with the homeless camps that are not on, not only within your former district, but also now much more pervasive throughout the region?

Jeff: Yeah, Scott, homelessness has changed a lot over the last decade.

When I took office nine years ago, there were about 2,200. uh, homeless people that we had counted in the city of Sacramento, and now it's closer to 10,000 locally.

So, the numbers have increased, but the conditions on the street have worsened.

And this is particularly problematic in addressing the homeless, uh, problem.

Central to the changes are drug addiction, and it, it, it's really spiraled out of control since the onset of the pandemic.

You know, there have been many, many things that, that made homelessness more problematic and a bigger problem for the city, uh, since the pandemic.

For one thing, the Judicial Council of the Supreme Court of California, in, in reaction to the pandemic, released an awful lot of felons out of our county jail.

They immediately became homeless without resources and migrated over to the River District, which was part of District 3.

And that, you know well, because you did business there for quite a while, and, uh, as you mentioned in the opening, the River District has been ground zero for homelessness for many, many years.

So it was all exacerbated by the release of many inmates from the jail.

It jumped our homeless population 20% in two weeks.

Very few people are aware of that.

And these are people who, as I said, didn't have monetary resources, often didn't have familial resources and, um, were used to a life of crime.

So, it, it really caused a lot of issues that I feel the city council was slow to absorb.

You know, I could see it in real time in my district.

Uh, I started a triage shelter on Railroad Avenue, and the people who came into that shelter were very open with me about their drug use and their inability to get off drugs unless they were forced to.

So, the, the estimates of the homeless population that are actively addicted to opioids or methamphetamines or fentanyl, particularly evil stuff, uh, is north of 75% now, by most accounts.

Scott: I wa-- I wanted to-- uh, I want to jump in here on that, Jeff, because you, um, have twice in, in just your few comments, um, today, may referenced addiction.

Jeff: Mm hmm.

Scott: Most of the time when we have guests on the show, they talk about homelessness with a relationship-- they mentioned drugs, but particularly mental health issues.

Is there a reason that you are so focused on the drug addiction issue as opposed to you haven't really men-- mentioned mental illness yet?

Jeff: Well, yeah, I- I will get to that.

Theyre actually, um, almost the same issue, virtually.

Well, I wouldn't say virtually, um, but I'd say many, many people who find themselves on the streets have lived a life of abuse and have lived in the cycle of abuse their whole time.

Many of them have true, uh, mental infirmities, you know, could be schizophrenia or Tourette's syndrome, absolute psychosis.

So, the problem is methamphetamines in particular exacerbates those kinds of behaviors associated, uh, with mental illness.

And, um, some of the behaviors are particularly violent and egregious, especially with methamphetamines.

And then, of course, with fentanyl.

It can be, uh, the end of life of an individual taking it on the street and that often happens.

So, they are correlated and it is a mental health and drug crisis.

What-- the reason I focus so much on the, the drug abuse part is because drugs are sold flagrantly and very cheaply on the streets of Sacramento and really virtually all Western cities at this point.

There is an infusion of, of very inexpensive, uh, Mexican methamphetamines that made their way into Sacramento just after the onset of the pandemic.

And there were drug sellers out there handing out drugs for free to actively addict the homeless population.

So, when you look at homelessness, there are many reasons people fall into a life on the streets.

It's usually a string of bad decisions or just victimization.

It could be, um, bad financial decisions.

It could be spousal abuse, it could be drug abuse, it could be a predilection for criminal activity.

There are many reasons that people become homeless.

To address the homelessness problem, you have to look at this globally and be realistic about what's really happening on the streets.

Scott: Well, I, I, I, I want to come to that in terms of what's really happening on the streets.

But I'd like to pull back and talk about what was really happening up on the dais.

And then the city council chambers and the board of Supervisors change-- chambers here within Sacramento.

Let me ask it directly.

During your time on the council, if you were to give a letter grade like you would a high school student on how you all dealt with the homelessness issue in the city of Sacramento, what's the letter grade you'd give the council?

Jeff: Scott to answer that, I have to pick out a point in time.

So, when I was on the council early, I would say we were hitting an A, A-minus.

We were doing the right things.

We were doing triage.

Scott: All right, So what about at the end of your tenure?

Jeff: Yeah.

C-minus or D. Scott: Okay.

What changed?

Jeff: The way I see it, through the lens that, that, that I had in terms of the ordinance that we created and the shelter that we created.

Uh... we-- the city council, never really embraced the idea that this was a mental health and drug crisis, predominantly.

Scott: What did they think it was?

Jeff: Well, if you listen to some of the testimony at council, a lot of council members seemed to think that the homeless population is more or less benign.

People who are down on their luck and just need a helping hand.

But the fact of the matter is, over time, we found that as we reached out to homeless individuals, they were very service resistant.

They didn't want to go to a shelter even though we spent millions of dollars on shelter beds.

You know, we stood up two sprung tent shelters.

The one on Alhambra has been fraught with problems.

Uh, the one in Meadowview is doing a little bit better, but it caters to specifically women who are homeless, who generally are a little bit, uh, it's a little easier to deal with this complex set of issues that they're facing.

Scott: And what would be the letter grade you'd give the current city council?

Jeff: Hmm, a little bit higher, probably a C. Um, and the reason I say that is because at the tail end of my tenure, we created a, a 4x4 with, with the county supervisors.

Prior to that, and, and we did reach an agreement with-- Scott: I, I don't know what a 4x4 is, so you're going to have to tell us.

Jeff: Oh, to, to-- Well, we had four council members and four supervisors who met, uh, so 4x4.

Scott: And what did that result in?

Jeff: We forged an agreement for the first time whereby we would each accept responsibility for various aspects of the response to homelessness, that the city would provide sites and the county would provide services.

Now, dividing up the chores like that is a pretty big deal.

There-- before that, the city was basically working on their own without much help from the county, uh, to try to cover the costs of both standing up a site, buying the equipment, hiring the operators, providing the services, coordinating the services.

Quite frankly, it got out of, um, the capabilities of the city quite honestly.

Scott: I, I-- you raised an interesting question, and uh, I, I,-- that a number of people have raised who were previous guests on the show.

There are some who say that the county of Sacramento has gotten a free pass in terms of its responsibility for the homeless issue and that it's really been on the back of the city of Sacramento.

How do you respond to that?

Jeff: Well, yes, there are many who say that was the case.

I have known all along that the supervisors were doing a lot of work with the homeless population, but they were not aiding the city.

And the city, of course, had the bulk of the homeless population in the county.

So, yes, the feeling on the council was that the county Board of Supervisors should participate more in the homeless problem within the city limits because we are in the county.

We're all county residents here, Scott.

And, um, yeah, there was a lot of frustration about this.

The, the agreement that has recently been forged, I think is a good one.

And it's just starting to be implemented.

It will have positive effects.

And so, I feel hopeful about that.

Uh, you know, a lot of people participated, like I said, four council members and supervisors.

But we also had mental health staff from the county.

Uh, we had our city manager and the county executive in the room.

The mayor participated.

So, it was a pretty high level get down to brass tacks sort of meeting.

Scott: So... so, you talk about this 4x4 and how the county is now beginning to partner with the city and the results of that.

If there is this positive movement, how do you explain things like the actions of Thien Ho, our district attorney, who actually is not just commenting on this issue, but actually taking legal action, uh, against the city of Sacramento because of what he sees as a lack of enforcing the laws that are on the books or addressing this issue?

Jeff: So, I have maintained all along that we need a very balanced approach to addressing homelessness.

We do need to provide shelter beds.

We do need to provide services, especially drug, drug and mental, uh, mental health services.

We also have to enforce our ordinance and not let the homeless population believe that their home is, is on the streets of the city of Sacramento.

We need them to think that this is a temporary part of their life, not a permanent home for them.

But with our lack of enforcement, we have actually created, uh, a culture on the streets where people thumb their nose at the police, commit a lot of crimes, get away with it, are not cited.

Um, look, we've all seen the degradation of the city.

And I wrote about these things, you know, in, in pretty, pretty... to a great extent in Inside Publications in re-- a recent article where I explained my view.

So, here's why Thien Ho sued the city.

My constituents called me regularly and said, “There's a homeless camp outside my business.

They're coming in and stealing.

There's feces at my front door.

People are sleeping on the streets.

” Homeowners told me the same thing, “They're defecating on my lawn, stealing my packages, threatening my children.

” We get reports like that from the people who elected us saying, “we need help.

” But here's why I give the city of Sacramento a really poor grade in addressing homelessness.

There's much talk about what the homeless population needs, but there's been very little talk about what the housed constituents need and I argued at the dais that people who have homes are working and they're taxpayers, and they provide us the money to deal with the homeless situation.

We need to pay a lot more attention to our constituents needs.

Thien, Thien Ho put out a survey, 1,800 respondents, many of them with dire pleas for help.

And I got those dire pleas too.

Thien, you know, he, he maintains that his charge as District attorney is the public safety for everybody in the county, and he perceived a definite lack of public safety due to the city not enforcing our ordinance.

And that's the basis of his complaint.

Scott: Hmm.

Well, so it-- I take it that you agree with his, uh, action that he's taken with the city.

It speaks to, though, something that, that is a bit deeper that you touched on as well, which is there is, uh, at least if you walk around the region and talk with average citizens, a feeling of hopelessness that anything will ever be done that is successful and effective on addressing the homeless situation.

Take us inside those chambers that you were in and those conversations that you were in as a elected official.

What, it-- they have all of the power, supposedly, at least in the minds of the, the constituents that voted them into office.

Why has there been such a lack of performance?

Jeff: The answer to that is polarization of ideologies, Scott.

And I mean, that's, that's a big statement.

But look, country-wide, uh, we have people going farther to the left and farther to the right.

And the same is true on the city council.

So, we had members on the counci who felt that moving the homeless was a futile effort.

You know, if they were blocking the sidewalks, which is a flagrant violation of ADA laws that were hard fought and won over decades and, you know, many of our sidewalks had become absolutely unpassable and unsafe.

You know, in, in, District 3, going under the freeway, uh, underpasses, children were afraid to cycle through there because there were tents on both sides of the road and they were, you know, getting accosted.

They, they were actually in fear just going to school.

So, we created ordinance saying that if you camp on a, on a city street, you have to leave a four foot right of passage, clear four foot, right of passage on the sidewalk so that people can actually have mobility in our city.

Additionally, we said you can't camp within 500 feet of a, of a school, uh, you know, and we have a, a, a limit of a thousand feet on playgrounds.

Um, but these are all being violated.

So, people see these violations and say the city council is just giving the homeless population a free pass to do whatever ever they want, wherever they want.

And, you know, some of those behaviors are... are absolutely unacceptable and criminal.

Scott: Now, you say that, and that's consistent with the messaging that you made as a councilperson.

Jeff: Mhm.

Scott: You were redistricted out of office, essentially.

Jeff: That's, thats correct.

Scott: Wa-- was your, was your advocacy and, and this shifting of the political discussion, um, was that at all responsible for the fact that you were redistricted out of office?

Jeff: Well, I can only surmise.

I suspect that it was Uh, I heard some comments that made me think that there was intent, uh, behind drawing a map that would exclude me from my district and knock me out of my seat.

Again, getting back to the ideologies on the council, there are some who are, I think, are far left who say, you know, “You can't move the homeless population.

It's cruel, its inhumane, it violates Martin v. Boise.

” And then there was me, and to a certain extent, one or two other members, um, Sean Loloee, Allen Warren for a while said, “No, we've got to be more centrist.

We've got to take the whole package.

” And yes, when you move, when you move really big, entrenched homeless camps, Scott, you can avert a lot of criminal activity.

We did this before Martin v. Boise.

Uh, we started the Impact team.

And in fact, I got $1,000,000 out of Kevin Johnson in the budget discussion to start the Impact team.

So, that, these were police and psychologists who would go around and counter homeless people, offer them services and try to get them to avail themselves of services.

If they refused, they said, “You can't sleep here.

You have to go.

” And what happened was that it kept really large, entrenched camps from forming, you know, over a period of months or years.

And when they, when they are settled and get to be large camps in one spot for a long time, that's when the filth and detritus and flagrant drug use and criminal activity really escalates.

So, it is not futile to move these camps.

We did it for years.

It had efficacy.

Yes, it made life on the streets harder for some individuals.

But life on the streets is not easy.

And again, I feel it's imperative that the homeless population change their mindset and realize that living on the streets is a temporary condition, that it is not their permanent home.

Scott: Now, uh, a cynic might say, Jeff, that asking a homeless person who, uh, uh, in your own words, is vexed with substance abuse as well as mental health issues, to live in a higher level of responsibility in terms of them being, uh, a citizen in the community is, uh, an errand for which there's no reward.

How do you reconcile those two things?

Jeff: Through my experience at the railroad shelter, I found that even people in deep drug addiction are helpable.

Uh, sometimes they will say no.

They often say no, you know, up to ten times before you can get to yes.

It takes a concerted effort.

It takes relationship building.

And, uh, also, quite frankly, we need conservatorship and we need some of the laws that our state legislature, legislature voided that gave us the ability to, um, basically...

Uh, not-- I wouldn't say coerced, but, you know, we would give homeless people an alternative, you know, if they, if they did unlawful behavior, they could go to drug rehab or they could sit in jail.

And very often they went to rehab.

And we don't have that currently.

Scott: I- I want to turn the conversation toward the future.

Darrell Steinberg is coming to the end of his term.

And we have, uh, four, at least four candidates who are seeking to be his successor.

Um, put us, put yourself in the role of coach for the voters of Sacramento in this upcoming election.

What are the three things that voters need to hold these candidates accountable for in terms of the issues that they're going to focus on and the deliverables that they need to commit to?

Jeff: Well, that's a big question.

Um... just in full disclosure, I have endorsed one candidate.

He was my former colleague, Steve Hansen, because I believe he really understands the economics of the city and the depth of this problem.

But if I were going to coach, I would say, look, get real about the homeless situation.

Understand the reality on the streets.

We have to manage that while we create more housing opportunities, while we hire more service providers, while we forge a greater coalition with the county.

But we also have to be mindful of our own budget.

During the course of my tenure, uh, there was money available to put into the homeless conundrum that went to a lot of pet projects for council people.

And I fought some of those.

Particularly, uh, we use an awful lot of federal money for it, to, to fund youth community based organizations, CBOs.

Uh, I felt it was way too much money and that there were better uses for that.

I argued for those things at our budget discussions, uh, and was sometimes I had some success, but oftentimes the council outvoted me on how best to use our city budget.

Another thing I would counsel the candidates is you need to have a strong relationship with our city manager.

Our city manager's job is to manage the city budget and deal with all of the city employees.

And these are the people that we tasked with all of the policy issues and bringing them to fruition, uh, around homelessness and, and every other aspect.

Um, it's really important to forge a good relationship with the city manager.

But I guess those are the two biggest things.

You know, look at, look at homelessness globally.

You know, don't, don't carry this line that the homeless population is they're all really benign people and just down on their luck and that a little offer of the helping hand will work.

We already know full well that it's a struggle.

It takes a concerted effort, uh, to, to lift these people out of street bon-- bound poverty and especially, you know, the mental health and, and drug issues are particularly pernicious and difficult to get to a, a good answer on.

All the candidates that I've heard so far, Scott, have all said the same thing, “Im gonna get after homelessness and I'm gonna make this work.

” That's exactly what Darrell Steinberg said in 2016.

He said it was the central issue, uh, for him as, as an incoming mayor, that he was going to focus on homelessness and nip this thing in the bud and really make significant progress on it.

And we've seen what's happened.

Uh, you know, it's from my point of view, having sat on the council and worked with these people for years, I really believe that the focus was not on solving homelessness.

It was kind of business as usual at the city, get my projects done, take care of my district, all, all of which are okay, but never an acknowledgment that homelessness was getting on top of us, that was degrading our city, that was causing people to move away, to feel unsafe.

So, I feel like, generally speaking, the council turned a blind eye to the bulk of their constituents.

Scott: And I think that we're going to have to leave it there.

Uh, Jeff, we know that you'll be watching and you'll be writing in Inside Sacramento and appreciate your perspective today.

Jeff: Thank you very much, Scott.

Once again, it's great to see you and, and an honor to be here on your show.

Scott: All right.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪♪ Scott Syphax: All episodes of Studio Sacramento along with other KVIE programs are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.