- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

PNC, Grow Up Great.

Choose New Jersey.

Kean University.

Where Cougars climb higher.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Here when you need us most, now and always.

Fedway Associates, Inc. And by The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Promotional support provided by Insider NJ.

And by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

Part of the USA Today Network.

[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone.

I'm Steve Adubato.

And we are honored to be joined by a long time friend, Jeh Johnson, who is host of WBGO's "All Things Soul".

That's 88.3 FM.

But here's his other previous title, former United States Secretary of Homeland Security.

And you look like you're in a law office, Jeh.

Is that where I'm looking at?

- I am a lawyer.

Yes.

I am sitting in my office in the Midtown Manhattan law firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, firm I've been associated with off and on since 1984.

I have left this firm four times and returned four times for government service.

So, here I am.

- Great to have you, friend and neighbor.

So here's the thing, will talk about Homeland Security in just a moment, but "All Things Soul", what is it and why is it happening?

(Jeh laughing) - Good question.

I have been a fan of WBGO since before I lived in Montclair, New Jersey.

We moved to Montclair 25 years ago.

And even before that, I was listening to 88.3 FM.

I'm a huge fan of classic R&B.

And I started listening to the station.

We moved out to New Jersey, began listening to the station regularly on Saturdays.

And- - Did you do the Rhythm Revue on Saturday mornings?

Just checking.

Did you do- - Rhythm Revue, and then Bob Porter before that.

- Bob Po... - And they used to have something called Host an Hour where you pledge a certain amount of money and they'll let you go on and co-host a show, bring your own playlist, bring your own music.

So, 20 years ago, I pledged enough to do a Host an Hour, and that began my on-air support of WBGO.

Then, I became a trustee.

Then, I would go on with Felix Hernandez, Rhythm Revue, to co-host and raise money, beg for money.

And finally, the station manager, Steve Williams, said to me last fall, how would you like to have your own show?

And I said, well, that would be like fantasy camp for me.

So, they said, you can name it whatever you want, as long as it ends with the words with Jeh Johnson.

So, my son and I came up with "All Things Soul with Jeh Johnson'.

We had our first show in March.

- And you had a no name guest, I heard - Yes, person you've never heard of, the 42nd president of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, to talk about - Wow.

- his love of jazz and R&B.

It was a great interview.

I only wanted 10 minutes of the former president's time.

I got 27.

- Wow.

- He has a remarkable recall for facts, details like the name of his high school band, and how he learned how to play the saxophone, how he learned how to play the clarinet, the names of the people in his high school band.

It was a really remarkable interview.

We discussed Ukraine as well.

And the next show will be Saturday, May 28th, Memorial Day weekend.

- Well, we're taping right before that.

So, go on the WBGO website, which we will put up right there.

And I also know they will have Jeh's show, "All Things Soul" there in the archives, if you will.

And we are huge fans of WBGO.

Or great friends of W- - Steve, it's basically classic R&B, Aretha Franklin, - Right.

- and The Dells, Four Tops, The Temptations, Otis Redding, Dionne Warwick, Gladys Knight... That era of music, which I love, plus (audio breaking) - Same here.

- each show.

- Yeah, our kids are like, dad, that's old music.

I said, no, you mean good music.

(Jeh laughing) Good music.

So, let me ask you this, you go from having this extraordinary responsibility as the head of Homeland Security to doing this, to doing your work in legal field.

How much do you think, Jeh, about, and we're taping this show literally days after the horrific shooting, the murder of 19 children, two teachers, as we know right now in Texas.

These shootings, these murders with assault weapon rifles.

Is that a question of Homeland Security?

- Interesting question.

2016, while I was still in office, I had enough controversial contentious issues to deal with, but after the shooting in the nightclub in Orlando, Florida, I don't know if you remember that one, I decided that I should speak out about gun safety, as well as all my other responsibilities.

And I said then, that if we really want true Homeland Security in this country, part of that discussion has to be the discussion about the prevalence of guns in our society, which enables so much death and violence.

And so, I consider it fundamental to Homeland Security that we do a better job of policing who gets his hands on an assault rifle which is a weapon of mass destruction.

So, my short answer to your question, Steve, is yes.

I believe that gun safety, responsible, reasonable gun safety, consistent with the second amendment, is a matter of Homeland Security.

- Yeah.

Quick follow up on the time we have you.

Why does and should Ukraine matter to us in the United States as an issue of Homeland Security?

- Ukraine matters for a couple reasons.

One, the United States is the leader of the free world.

Part of the free world is under attack right now.

In an unprovoked illegal invasion by Russia of Ukraine, in which war crimes, atrocities are being committed.

All Americans should care about that.

All Americans who understand what a American values are, what the significance of this nation is to the rest of the world, should care about this.

There are obviously, more basic issues like cyber security and the like, but this is a matter of who we are as Americans.

President Biden's been very clear.

There will be no boots on the ground in Ukraine, no American boots on the ground in Ukraine.

There will be no no-fly zone by American fighter jets in Ukraine, but there are a whole lot of things we can be doing to push back on the illegal unprovoked invasion by Vladimir Putin.

He should not be allowed to get away with this.

- Got a minute left.

You led the effort in 2014 at the US Southern border, dealing with a whole range of complex immigration issues.

For those Americans who believe that illegal immigration at the Southern border in particular is an issue of a significant issue in terms of Homeland Security you say?

- Border security is something most Americans want and we have to secure our borders.

There is a right way and a wrong way to come to this country.

Most Americans believe we should be humane, fair to migrants in this country, but that we have to have border security.

That means enforcing our immigration laws in a responsible, humane, and fair way, something that I believe we did during my time in office and that we need to continue to do.

- Hey, listen, Jeh, I wanna end it on a high note.

"All Things Soul", Saturdays from 8:00 to 10:00 AM, WBGO, that's 88.3.

And if you miss it, you can check out the WBGO website.

We'll connect it to ours as well at SteveAdubato.org.

Hey, Jeh, it's great to see you, and can't wait to hear the next "All Things Soul" show.

And I wish you and your family all the best.

- Thanks for the shout out, Steve.

And thanks for having me on.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato.

That is Jeh Johnson.

We'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We have her back again.

She's the First Lady of the great state of New Jersey, Tammy Murphy.

Good to see you, Tammy.

- Good to see you too, Steve.

Thanks for having me.

- Thank you.

I hate to start on this topic, but we are taping this program at the end of May, 2020.

We will talk about Nurture NJ, your initiative, we'll talk about the trip to Ireland, a lot of things.

Gun violence, gun safety, given the horrific events in Texas.

And I hope and pray to God when this is shown in a repeated version, that there's not an, well, go ahead, Tammy.

- I, you don't even have to finish that sentence.

I think we all know where you're going.

There's not another one?

So listen, we, we must get federal regulation on gun safety measures.

It's something that 90%, more than 90% of our country would like to see universal background checks.

And the fact that the gun lobby has so many people in their pockets, it's disgusting.

You know, people are trying to say that it's political.

This is not political.

This is when you're seeing innocent children being brutalized, murdered, and just, it's just terrible.

And we cannot have this recur over and over and over again.

I'm honestly really, really grateful that yesterday, Phil, my husband called out a lot of these legislators and said- - By name.

- By name, and said- - Which is not his nature.

- No, that's not his nature, but we're so frustrated.

We can't go anywhere in the United States right now and feel safe.

In all honesty, you can't go buy groceries, as we saw in Buffalo.

You can't go to the movie theater.

- How about church?

How about church?

- You can't go to church.

You can't go anywhere.

And you know, the more proliferation of munitions that we have out in the population, obviously the more challenges we're gonna have.

And you know, I think that we really do need all of us to look inwardly and say to ourselves, where do we stand on this topic and who is going to represent our voice?

I think it's really smart to have an open vote so every person can see exactly who is voting how, and every person can say, that's either important to me, or it's not important to me, but at least I know where they stand.

- And that that's even getting to a vote.

First lady Tammy Murphy, let me ask you, where are we with Nurture, tell everyone what Nurture, if you wanna see previous interviews we've done with the first lady, check out steveadubato.org.

What is it and where are we right now?

- Okay, so Nurture NJ is our statewide awareness campaign.

It is the platform that we are using to correct the maternal and infant mortality rates that are so terrible here in New Jersey.

In all honesty, we have horrific maternal mortality rates in the United States.

We are 55th in the world for maternal mortality rates.

And here in New Jersey, sadly, we are 47th out of 50th.

And when you drill down and understand exactly what's going on, you can see that sadly, it's our black moms and babies who are mostly impacted.

This is all about racism.

It's been institutionalized.

And it is something that we must change.

I've been working on this, as you know, for the entirety of Phil's first administration.

And we are making progress.

Very excited about that.

You know, he's signed more than 40 pieces of legislation to tackle some of the systemic challenges we have.

He has put money into the budget this year.

He's put another $37 million into the budget to tackle some of the, you know, opportunities that we have here in New Jersey.

And, you know, we separately are meeting all the time with stakeholders across the state to advance our strategic plan, which we unveiled over a year ago.

To date, we have either finished or at least started over half of the 70 actual recommendations in that plan.

I believe that plan is the blueprint for not only our state but could be for the United States - You and the governor and a group of other leaders in the state, from the private sector, government sector, not-for-profit sector, education sector, went to Ireland recently.

What was that trip and why does it matter?

- So it was an economic mission and it was a way to strengthen the ties that we have with Irish companies, Irish institutions of higher learning.

In my capacity, part of that also had to do with advancing Nurture NJ, because Ireland has the first infant and maternal health center around the world, and it's fantastic because we signed a memorandum of understanding with that center.

- Excuse me, is that the, sorry to interrupt, is that the Irish Center for Maternal and Child Health Research?

- That is.

That is.

They call it infant, but yes, that's what that is, exactly.

- And that was done in cooperation with the economic development authority in the state?

- Exactly, exactly.

So very exciting, because we are going to share best practices.

It's essentially information sharing and trying to understand, share clinical studies and more.

And the irony is, in Ireland, their maternal mortality rate is five deaths per 100,000 live births.

The United States, our maternal mortality rate is 19 per 100,000 births.

So the fact that they already have this up and running is unbelievable, and I'm very excited and they're very excited about working with us.

- Let me bring you back in the time we have the discussion about Nurture NJ, babies, mothers, particularly black and brown babies and mothers disproportionately impacted.

This baby formula situation.

And again, we're taping at the end of May to be seen later.

Who knows where we're gonna be with that.

That's clearly, that horrific situation, which I can't even comprehend how that happens is directly tied to your mission, is it not?

- Absolutely.

I mean, listen, we are trying to make New Jersey the safest and most equitable state in the country to deliver and raise a baby.

If you can't even feed your baby, that's obviously a challenge, Steve.

So the answer is, it's absolutely part of our mission.

Phil has been working directly with Department of Health with our office, and we have done a number of things that are hopefully moving the needle here.

He signed an executive order to ensure there's no price gouging that's going on.

And we've created a website that will enable people to be able to understand what they can do, how to substitute, where to find, you know, resources.

So we're doing everything we can, but it's, again, this is another case of, it's really at the federal level.

You've gotta make sure that the FDA is is keeping tabs on this and moving forward, which they seem to be now doing.

- We have a minute left.

Make sure we put the Nurture NJ website up as the first lady's speaking.

Before I let you go, one of my favorite interviews of all time, and look on steveadubato.org.

Eric LeGrand, extraordinary young man.

- Yeah.

- Rutgers connection, horrific accident 10 or so years ago, playing against football for Rutgers against Army, paralyzed, a leader, a great person, but now an entrepreneur in new Brunswick.

You went to the opening of Eric's coffee empire.

- Yes.

- We have some video we're gonna show, talk about it real quick.

'Cause you said it took coffee was great.

Sorry if we're turning it, we're public television.

- No, it's great, it's great.

- I don't wanna turn into a commercial for Eric LeGrand, but we love him.

Go ahead.

- First of all, I told him I was speaking to you and he said to say hi.

So that's one thing.

Secondly, Eric, it's called The LeGrand Coffee House, and it's in Woodbridge.

I love the fact that that Eric is such a, he's such a giving person, as you know, and he's so thoughtful.

He had never tasted coffee himself, I heard, until 2020.

And now he's got an entire coffee shop that is a convening place for people in the community to support one another.

He wanted to make it more than kind of just some of the generic brands.

He wanted to make it something special, and it really is special.

It's worth seeing.

I will also tell you that we have some exciting news because Eric recently came to the governor's mansion Drumthwacket, and when we unveiled the ADA accessible elevator and bathroom that we have just finished installing, so he was kind of the, he was our first case and he got to ride in the elevator.

But we agreed, and I know it's now underway that the LeGrand coffee will now be the coffee that we serve at Drumthwacket, so that's really exciting.

Eric and our team are in cahoots right now, trying to figure out how and when we roll that out, but it'll be soon.

- We love Eric LeGrand.

And we're gonna have him back to talk about that and a bunch of other things.

First Lady Tammy Murphy, cannot thank you enough for joining us.

Best to you and your family, best to the governor.

- Thank you so much, Steve.

And same right back to you.

- You got it.

We'll be right back after this.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Folks, we're now joined by Jim McGreevey.

You know him, he's the former governor of the great state of New Jersey, chairman of the New Jersey Reentry Corporation.

And Will Sheehan who's a veteran and advocate of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

Good to see you gentlemen.

- Good to be with you.

Thank you, Steve.

- Good to see you, Steve.

- Hey Jim, before we go to, real quick set this up, New Jersey prisoner reentry.

Your corporation involved with veterans because, what's the problem with discharges Jim?

Why is New Jersey Reentry Corporation caring about discharges of veterans and what the heck that have to do with reentry?

- That's a great question.

The first data point is that 8% of the people in state prisons are veterans, disproportionately combat veterans.

Second point is that in terms of discharge, there's honorable discharge, general discharge, other than honorable, bad conduct, and dishonorable.

And the problem is the guys and the gals right in the center other than honorable, it's administrative discharge.

And when people are found to be, whether it's smoking a joint, whether it's AWOL for a night or two nights, what happens is they're discharged from the military service.

And the reality Steve is, is that Veterans Affairs links services, the array of veteran services to the discharge classification.

So somebody's getting out and they're other than honorable, no addiction, no mental health and the full array of services.

A lot of these veterans, combat trauma, brain injury, military sexual trauma.

They've been beaten up, Afghanistan, Iraq.

And all we're trying to do is, and we will do, is provide them psychiatric and addiction treatments.

- Will, as the governor says, this is a bad situation.

And how many veterans are we talking about here?

Do have any-- - In New Jersey we're talking about 1000.

But the point of information to keep in your mind's eye, Steve, is veterans, highest cohort of suicide, highest cohort of mental illness, highest cohort of homelessness.

We've gotta be doing a lot more for our veterans nationwide.

- Hey, Will, you may have noticed when Jim McGreevey is on it's hard to get a word in.

I just want you to know that.

We've known each other for 20 plus years, that's the way it's been.

So same thing with me.

That's why we're together, nobody gets a word in.

Will, get a word in here.

Tell us, in addition what Jim said, what exactly do we need to do?

- Yeah, so I mean, it's the Irish gift of gab there, Steve.

So, you know-- - I'm Italian, what's my excuse?

Go ahead, I'm sorry.

- (laughs) You know, coming up on Memorial Day will be 273 days since we've had the last boots on the ground in Afghanistan.

And we've shifted over from being on the offense to the defense.

And what I mean by defense is there's no more casualties on the battlefield of Afghanistan and Iraq.

The casualties are gonna be on the battlefield of America with my generation suffering from PTSD, post traumatic stress, military sexual trauma, and TBI, which is traumatic brain injury.

The great thing about what the governor is doing here and the great thing about what the state will be doing here soon is that they are giving triage and benefits to these folks who went to far off places to go fight the world's evil and now have come back and need the benefits and services that they've earned.

- Hey, Jim, is this a legislative issue?

- Well, it could be.

So what happens is Congress, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, you should give a darn about these guys and make sure that their healthcare is clinically driven.

And I get it, you know, whether the Marine Corps or the Army or the Air Force wants to discharge based on what somebody does in terms of field command, I get that.

But with all due respect, for a minimal violation, the VA, they shouldn't be, all of their benefits shouldn't go down the drain.

And so what we're doing this with Hackensack Meridian, we're doing this with University of Pennsylvania and Princeton and Discovery Institute.

We're getting them into a psych center, we're stabilizing them.

30 days of psychiatric residential treatment.

30 days of addiction treatment.

A total package of 70 days.

Steven, if they didn't have this, they would have nothing.

And so these guys are coming back.

And their stories are brutal.

One young man, he'’s a medic.

He's picking up body parts.

He literally, Steve, smoked one joint.

Not that I'm endorsing it, but the point was the Marines found THC in his urine.

He gets an OTH discharge and he gets no benefits.

- OTH is other than honorable.

- Yes.

- But Will, hold on one second.

As I listen to the governor, Jim, here's my question.

Jim is saying the military has to do what the military does but if the military leadership knows that that discharge status adversely affects ability of a veteran who's given so much to our country then why wouldn't they just change the discharge policies?

- The governor-- - What I can-- - Hold on, Jim, I'm gonna get Will on this.

Go ahead Will.

- Go ahead Will.

- So what the governor's really providing is he's providing something of being at the forefront, but he's also providing bridge benefits.

As an overall, the military has become more empathetic.

They recognize that the instrumentality of war is taken out on the youth.

I will tell you as someone who has led folks into war, you know, it's the youth, it's the 18, 19 year old guys who are knocking down doors and not knowing who's behind them.

And that impacts them.

And we as a society have become more empathetic to that.

But what the governor's providing are these bridge benefits.

So you can upgrade your discharge.

It just, it's the government, it's bureaucracy, it just takes a really long time, it takes-- - It's 18 months, two years.

You could be dead by then.

- And sometimes longer.

And the success rate is very small.

And then also, you know, you have to have an advocate.

Some of these guys, they don't wanna get lawyers.

They don't know where to get advocates.

- And they don't also wanna fight the military.

Right, Jim?

- Yes.

I mean, that's the problem.

The problem, Steve, is you got the VA and they do great work-- - Veterans Administration, go ahead.

- Thank you.

And then you got the Department of Defense which is the respective branches of service.

And the reality is that the VA benefits are tied or linked to discharge.

And what I would respectfully, whether you're a Republican or Democrat, the VA benefits should be clinically driven based on what the guy or gal needs in terms of mental health, addiction, and mental services.

And the irony is the people who need it least, God willing, you know, it's the people who need it most aren't getting it and that's what we're doing with New Jersey Reentry.

- Thank you Jim, thank you Will.

Thank you gentlemen.

So much work to be done.

Thank you guys, see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

PNC, Grow Up Great.

Choose New Jersey.

Kean University.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Fedway Associates, Inc. And by The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Promotional support provided by Insider NJ.

And by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

Part of the USA Today Network.

- New Jersey's early educators and childcare providers are more than twice as likely to live below the poverty line versus the general workforce.

Reimagine Childcare formed by a coalition in New Jersey is dedicated to improving accessibility, affordability and quality of childcare and re-imagining the way we support these essential providers.

Learn more by visiting ReimagineChildCare.org.