(Music) Jennifer McCormick's education plan.

A sobering local road funding estimate.

Plus, Jamey Noel pleads guilty and more from the television studios at wfyi.

It's Indiana Week in Review for the week ending August 30th, 2024.

Indiana Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

This week, Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jennifer McCormick, the former state superintendent of public Instruction, shared her education plan for the state.

Indiana Public Broadcasting's Kirsten Adair reports the plan emphasizes early childcare and universal pre-K school accountability and teacher pay.

The plan says teacher salaries should start at $60,000.

McCormick says the state could reprioritize funding to cover some of the cost.

Too often in Indiana, we talk about the expense because we are incredibly expensive, but we don't talk about it as an investment.

McCormick also says public dollars should be invested in public schools.

The plan calls for any schools that accept public money, including private schools that receive vouchers to be held to the same fiscal and academic accountability standards.

The plan also calls for increased autonomy for schools across the state to utilize their resources.

McCormick says schools should be encouraged to innovate while still being held to vigorous standards.

Could McCormick get any of her education plan through the Republican controlled legislature?

It's the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Chris Mitchum, Jon Schwantes host of Indiana Lawmakers.

And Niki Kelly, editor in chief of the Indiana Capital Chronicle.

I'm Indiana Public Broadcasting Statehouse bureau chief Brandon Smith.

Chris Mitchum are there.

are there elements of this, plan that a Republican legislature would support?

Sure.

I mean, I first, I think it's a good idea that they came out in front of this just because if for whatever reason, the conversation does pivot to education.

You know, I'm the first to admit that a Jennifer McCormick.

Terri good and ticket has a lot more background and a lot more specifics to answer those questions than the opposing campaign.

However, when you look at this plan, you know, I feel like it lacks a lot of the specifics that people with their background could have implemented into it if they spent a little more time on it.

I mean, to me, you kind of grab 3 or 4 high end things that everybody would agree on, right?

Universal pre-K, increase school accountability, teacher pay, and you kind of just throw them out there as that's what we want to address.

And then when asked how you're going to and the answer was just state funding.

And I think you're starting to kind of see a pattern with a lot of these plans that are coming out, even going back to the property tax, when how do you hold local governments harmless?

Well, we'll just get more money from the state government.

so I think, you know, with that pattern, unfortunately, while there's good ideas and, and I don't think there will be an appetite for the legislature if your solution isn't doesn't get more creative.

Would you expect a little more detail from people with the kind of credentials of McCormack.

And give more detail as she goes along?

I mean, that's that's what you do.

But I think there are parts of this that if the Republicans stop with the ideology and focus on children, instead, they ought to adopt.

You know, when they took control.

Absolutely.

In 2012, after the 2010 election and redistricting, they put in all these education reforms.

And remember, shortly before that, we had 65% of the high school graduates going to college.

We're down to 53% that are going to college.

We had 92% of the third graders with reading proficiency.

Now we're down to 82%.

If we make the same incremental progress that we made this past year and those reading scores.

It will take a full generation to undo the harm that's come from their, quote, reforms.

She is absolutely right.

We need to get back to traditional public education and invest the money in teachers to recruit the best possible teachers, not fill in the blanks with somebody who doesn't qualify to teach all those things.

She's putting emphasis on particularly on early childhood education.

Those are important components.

If we want to grow the state, if we want to have the kinds of jobs that we supposedly want to have for the future.

We have to have an educated population.

We are sinking beneath the waves.

We're at the bottom of states in terms of funding of a percentage of for education, and we're not getting any better, and we're diverting it to vouchers and to the flavor of the day charter school and all of these and virtual education, all of these other half assed ideas that have resulted in that decrease in college education and decrease in reading scores.

I want to ask about vouchers specifically because it wouldn't be surprising for a Democrat candidate or Democratic candidate for governor to come out and say, we need to roll back the voucher expansion.

That's not going to happen.

Realistically, it's just not going to happen, at least not for a very long time.

Unless Democrats retake the legislature.

So her proposals on private school vouchers is let's at least hold them to some of the same kind of academic and financial responsibility or accountability measures that we hold public schools, too.

Is that the kind of idea that might at some point get momentum in a Republican controlled legislature?

I mean, it's at least a pragmatic approach, right?

You know, you're not going to push for eliminating all vouchers.

It's just not going to happen.

So she wants them to have to accept all the same students that the public schools have to accept.

You know, she wants them to have to show where their money is going, just like the public schools, so we can see how they're spending those state dollars.

so that's at least a discussion that can can at least happen, whereas there would be no discussion dead on arrival of anything to get rid of vouchers.

She's not proposing to get rid of.

No she's not.

That's why I know there's been increased attention paid in the legislature recently to child care access.

Certainly.

And last year they acknowledged this past session.

They acknowledged that what they were doing was not going to include funding, because it was not a budget session coming into a budget session, whether it's more access to pre-K, I don't think we're doing universal, but whether it's more access to pre-K, more access to do anything child care.

Is that something that's going to be a high priority for the upcoming legislature?

They're certainly on people's wish lists.

as was noted, I think, you know, everybody in theory.

Well, I won't say everybody.

Most people would say these are fundamentally good ideas, even in the Republican controlled legislature.

The problem, though, is again, funding.

and the and the funding scenario is getting bleaker, not getting rosier.

so if we didn't have universal pre-K and those types of things, when the money was flowing, at an unprecedented, degree, we're not going to have it now.

Now, vouchers.

You're right.

People don't like it when government takes away benefits.

The only tweak, though, that we might see, is we saw some noise made about this last session where maybe rather than the vouchers as they are constructed now, you might have some mechanism by which dollars, a certain amount of money follows every student to any school, you know, whether it's a public school, a private school, that sort of every kid essentially, figuratively speaking, shows up with a backpack full of cash, figuratively.

in most schools anyway.

And then can that right goes to the schools they choose.

But in the short term, that's not something that that the General Assembly wants to tackle this session.

I would say you saw some momentum for accountability from one of the most prominent budget writers in the state House last year, I think it was.

So I think on that line in particular, if you want to say that a kind of a top down approach, you know, starts with the leadership.

It didn't get a final endorsement.

So from.

No.

But but it does when it starts with.

Somebody in that position.

Because you got tax dollars and we have a right to know how they're being spent.

The problem is you come up against you come up against the First Amendment.

You've got you've got religious schools involved here, and you're going to get in there and you're going to talk, and you need to talk about what that curriculum is so that that student is all those students are prepared.

And if I can predict that's not going to happen.

And if.

We need to build the curriculum.

Determined by market forces, as as advocates say, where things are comparative, you can regardless of zip code, you can choose your school, whether you can't do an accurate comparison.

As things stand now, because some schools have to take all students, all comers, some don't.

So until you get that kind of even playing field, there is no chart that shows you school performance in any accurate way.

Time now for viewer feedback.

Each week we post an unscientific online poll question, and this week's question is should private schools that receive voucher dollars be held to the same academic accountability standards as public schools?

A - Yes or B - no.

Last week we asked you whether a point six percentage point increase in third grade reading test scores was something worth getting excited about.

Just 32% of you say yes, 68% say no.

If you'd like to take part in the poll, go to WFYI.ORG/IWIR and look for the poll.

Well, speaking of funding issues, it will likely cost Indiana's local governments nearly $2 billion a year over the next decade just to maintain roads and bridges roughly in the condition they're in now.

And there's a nearly $1 billion gap between that need and current funding levels.

Roads and bridges maintained by local governments account for 85% of the total lane miles in the state.

Currently, 31% of city and town roads are in poor condition, while 27% of county roads are poor.

Those numbers come from the Local Technical Assistance Program at Purdue University, which works with almost every local government in the state to study its roads.

LTAP also prepared the funding estimates for maintaining and improving local road conditions.

As lead research engineer Jennifer Sharkey told lawmakers.

And identified a funding gap of 987 million to upwards of 2.41 billion annually for the next ten years.

That's as the Indiana Department of Transportation expects, the purchasing power of transportation revenue to steadily decrease over the next two decades.

Ann DeLaney, with all the other funding needs, some of which we just talked about.

Can Indiana realistically adequately fund local roads?

It has to.

I mean, it absolutely has to.

There are a lot of different reasons for this problem, okay.

One of which is that the state is so adverse to bonding.

So, you know, we build a bridge and we want to pay it out of current cash.

It's like building a home out of whatever your income is that year.

And if you don't have enough income, you can't buy it.

You they've got to go back to bonding on these bigger projects.

Number one.

Number two, they have to fix the way road funds are allocated.

Okay.

Rural roads are in better shape because according to the formula one, a two lane road, A for a mile gets the same allocation as a six lane road for a mile.

I mean, those kinds of things need to be adjusted because they work against metropolitan areas.

You get the legislature that comes down here complains about Marion County's roads.

At the same time they're screwing them over with the formula.

They also have to look at other means of raising those moneys as fuel economy improves and electric cars come on the market.

We're going to need another funding source.

But this isn't an option.

We can't have bridges collapse.

We can't be losing cars and potholes.

It has to be done.

Yeah.

It's that.

I mean, as we talk about all of the different funding needs, the wish list that Jon alluded to earlier, this one feels like it has to take a higher priority.

But there are a list of like 2 or 3, like education has to be a top priority.

Health care has to be a top priority.

Get this money.

So is this is this all all of this coming to a head at once?

Is this creating a real headache over at the state House?

Yeah, it's tough, especially when you talk about road funding.

I mean, really, the only solutions that were proposed, right, is will you give locals a gas option or a gas tax option.

Do you, you know, annually inspect odometers and charge people that way.

Do you increase tolling?

I mean, all of those are just, you know, quite a kind of, quite frankly, anti-Republican.

Right?

Your tax and you're increasing taxes.

But that's really, you know, the only options that are potentially on the table right now.

And, you know, whenever you do consider that, you know, a large portion of the funding already comes from the gas tax.

And I think you have like some specialty fuel tax and things like that.

I mean, it's it's it's it's really tough.

And, you know, I think part of the conversation is trying to capture revenue from people traveling through Indiana.

You know, that's one con about being the crossroads of America is your roads are going to get used a lot more than, you know, other states on the coast.

Yeah.

And trucks.

So if they don't stop, we're not capturing.

Yeah.

So is that tolling, which, you know, a lot of folks don't like.

It's it's a tough situation to be in.

Yeah.

I mean this is not an Indiana only problem that it was pointed out at this meeting.

This is a problem that basically every state in the nation has, which is our roads are, you know, they're not in terrible condition right now, but to keep them just at that level is going to cost a lot of money.

And the things we've always relied on to fund them are going to diminish.

Is Indiana just going to have.

And then when I say Indiana, I mean the people of Indiana.

Are we going to just have to get a lot more comfortable doing, paying some things that we've never had to pay before?

Things like tolling on a lot more or some sort of VMT thing.

Something has to give.

I mean, we're trying to create as a state an economic environment where businesses find it appealing and want to relocate here.

And so we have now one of the lowest corporate income tax rates in the country.

But that probably doesn't matter if your customers and employees or your workforce can't actually get to the point they don't want to.

So, I mean, there is some point of diminishing returns here.

We got the lowest taxes, but you know, everybody works remote in your business.

and all your customers do.

So, so that's that's problematic.

and something does have to give again here and around the country.

I just looked at the latest report from the American Society of Civil Engineers who you would think they would monitor this closely.

And do they put the national price tag?

It's a couple billion here or a billion gap here, 2.6 trillion nationally.

And you have one third, according to that group of the bridges in the United States are in serious.

yeah.

Fortunately, our default, our bridges, our bridge conditions are considerably so.

So 1 or 2 things to happen.

Either the federal government, we already just see I've seen the biggest infrastructure investment since the Eisenhower administration.

Right.

under the Biden administration.

Now, is that a taste of things to come?

Probably not.

I mean, it might happen.

Those dollars are largely not for maintenance.

It's for new products or new projects.

But so 1 or 2 things will happen.

The federal government will have to pour even more into this, which is also taxpayer dollars.

I guess it's easy to say, hey, we're not paying for it.

Say we're getting the suckers, the federal government to pay for it.

Never mind that those are our dollars as well.

But, something does have to give is the answer to that.

And to that point, Niki, this is a very long term problem, but it's also a short term, you know, question in the next budget.

Does it feel like at least because of these other not more pressing, but more immediate problems that they face funding wise?

This is one that's going to kind of take a backseat for maybe at least a budget cycle.

Maybe.

But I mean, this is kind of the cycle we go through.

I think the last time we did a large road funding project, it was maybe about a decade ago.

In 2017.

And they're going to really have to think outside the box, like tolling isn't terribly popular.

But, you know, we are.

We've progressed to a point where you don't need the boots or any of that.

You need the technology and it isn't a tax.

It's a legit user fee because you're on the roads.

I know some other states are looking at things like, you know, an additional tax on delivery drivers.

I mean, heck, I have Fedex and UPS at my house four times a week.

You know, there's a lot of that.

So we're just going to have to be a little more creative and open to more.

To the point, it was brought.

As revenue or to.

The point it was brought up, you know, weighing the trucks when they enter the state, weighing them when they leave the state, and then basically closing some exemptions.

So but I mean, that's another way to, you know, you're really worried about that truck traffic in the crossroads if they don't stop here.

Well that's a way to capture maybe something from a.

70 the second busiest road in the country.

Something 90.

Five.

Yeah, yeah.

Or a former Clark County sheriff.

Jamey Noel has pleaded guilty to more than two dozen felonies this week as part of a lengthy Indiana State Police investigation.

Louisville Public Media's Aprile Rickard reports.

Noel has changed his plea for 27 felonies related to his time as sheriff and in running an emergency services company under the agreement for felony charges would be dropped.

It calls for a sentence of 15 years, with three to be on probation.

Rick Hertel is the special prosecutor in the case.

I think you do this long enough.

It's hard to get surprised, but, I think that, an agreement to 15 years of a sentence, that leads to me proposing it to the court and to the judge.

we've come a long way since, that initial hearing back in November.

In court, Noel admitted to accusations including theft, tax evasion and money laundering.

Special Judge Larry Medlock is taking the plea under advisement.

Niki Kelly Noel was a major figure in the state GOP.

I believe he was a member of the state Central Committee.

is there further fallout from this?

Gosh, I know a lot of Republicans are hoping not, and some people think that that's the reason behind a plea is to try to stop more stuff from coming out.

Obviously, he has ties to Governor Holcomb, as he, you know, ran his campaign or chair of his campaign for one time.

The governor has said repeatedly he had no idea we actually talked to him this morning from Italy.

Was he an illegal yet?

And he said he is not interested in a pardon that any discussion of a pardon for Jamey.

No would come from the next administration.

So he's backing away from that.

But, I think a lot of Republicans are hoping that this ends it and more stuff doesn't keep coming out.

Yeah.

So far we've seen his wife, his daughter, also charged.

there are some a couple other a couple other like or councilman who are potentially involved if that's as far as it goes.

Is that none of it's okay, but is that are we happy that that's as far as it goes?

Right.

It's a bad thing.

It's horrible.

We can condemn it.

But politically, on a statewide basis, I don't think, the Hoosiers would hold that against the Republican Party as a whole.

I think that both parties have bad eggs, that do bad things.

we could sit here and spend the rest of the show listing, putting that list together, and we've run out of time, before we run out of names.

But the.

So the point being, people, I think, make allowances is that this is not a party issue.

This is a failed, person to person issue.

But you've you've got legislative races down there, and you have legislative candidates who may be associated with them in some way.

And, you know, it's it's a culture of corruption, which is what happens when you have one party control for that long period of time.

I mean, how this wasn't aware I mean, he had some incredible number of, high, high priced cars.

Nobody knew that on a sheriff's salary.

I mean, there are things there that you raise all kinds of questions.

I don't think this is over.

And if one.

Presidential candidate, for instance, were a convicted felon and the people would not condemn the entire Republican.

Party, just in the short term, politically speaking, just in that area, locally speaking, state House races, local races in the future, does this hurt Republicans, or is it a he was a bad guy.

These people involved with him were bad people.

This is not all of us.

Yeah.

I mean, locally, it depends how his ties are with the current people, I would say in office.

But I mean, I think this actually would impact the local community more than it would the state GOP as a whole, because I think he took over $2 million from fire fighting, local police, things like that.

So, I mean, I would be pretty heated if I was, you know, an individual in Clark County.

And if there are candidates there who have taken money from them, for example, on other campaigns that come back to the party, got money, got money from him that was used to credit cards that weren't his.

So that that happen.

I'm sure they're going to refunded though, aren't they.

since it was taxpayer money.

Inappropriately credit, I think, to the new sheriff who came in and saw this, saw some evidence of this and said, Holy cow, something's up.

State police, you should probably take a look at this.

Indiana medicaid officials say they've been adjusting their processes for financial reporting and forecasting to avoid future budget problems.

After a $1 billion error last year.

Indiana Public Broadcasting's Abigail Ruhman reports officials are starting their forecasting process earlier than normal and will continue to adjust the forecast as they collect more data.

The Indiana Family and Social Services Administration announced in January it would be improving its Medicaid forecasting and budget monitoring processes.

It started publishing monthly financial reports in May.

Paul Boling is the chief financial officer for FSSA.

He says the agency shares the reports with experts from other state agencies to get feedback and develop commentary to improve the accuracy of this year's forecast.

We're setting up a reporting structure, a review process, so that we can identify certain trends and risks that we may have not been able to catch in the past.

Boling says there are three goals for the new process reduce data lag, identify emerging risks, and produce a more detailed review of trends in the forecast.

Medicaid officials will present the next forecast at the state Budget Committee meeting in December.

Jon Schwantes, why should lawmakers believe the numbers they're going to get in December and next April?

Well, I'm sure there are those who will say who?

You know, we can't believe them now.

I'm sure we'll hear that chorus.

But I mean, we have to, trust agencies.

I think at some point, especially when they have doubled down and tried to renew their commitment to accuracy and transparency and timeliness so that there isn't another slip up.

I mean, we run a risk already of some members of the General Assembly saying every expert in every aspect of the executive branch of state government is is foolish, doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

I think that's dangerous.

So I think let's take an on face value and say, these are the most accurate numbers that are available and should be heeded accordingly.

I mean, is there a certain extent, like one of the great things about Indiana's budget process is they've been able to trust the budget forecast.

I mean, because it's incredibly accurate.

It's done in a bipartisan and nonpartisan way.

not always accurate.

I mean, we could, but pretty close.

I mean, that's all is.

There a national trend?

Yeah, but but generally speaking, the number they get is the number they can get.

Within a couple percent.

Yeah.

Here again they didn't they weren't that off by the percentages.

But the numbers are big when they're even off.

Is this one where they're going to have to trust the numbers no matter what.

Because what else are you going to do.

Yeah.

They have to have a guide.

And that's going to be their starting point.

I do think having these monthly reports will make them a little more, you know, accepting of it because you'll be able to see what we're what we're pacing at every month and not, you know, at least have an idea where it's headed or where it's trending.

So I think the monthly reports will help a lot.

and I do think I have to say it's really you know, really trying to fix what happened.

And that was and that was the biggest question was how did this happen?

How do we make sure it never happens again?

What you've seen so far of this, the changes to this process.

Is this the sort of work that needs encouraging?

And I think, you know, the time will tell whether there's the kind of fruit we want to see.

I mean, I hope they put the same amount of energy into the the Medicare waivers to get catch those up before people die as a result of being on that list for too long.

Well, that goes back to the funding conversations.

We were just talking, you know.

And and I would just add, like, I think the legislature set a precedent here of they're not, you know, requiring every single agency to report monthly.

It's like, hey, if you have $1 billion mess up.

Yeah, we might mandate you to start requiring more information on a monthly basis and kind of do a lot more things that might make your life pretty inconvenient, but that's what you get.

Finally, college football kicks off in earnest this week.

The Big Ten has a new look with the additions of USC, UCLA, Washington and Oregon.

And the college football Playoff has expanded to 12 teams.

Chris, which Indiana school has the best chance of making the expanded playoff?

It's got to be it's got to be the Fighting Irish.

and really the 12 team playoff really helps them because four teams get in from the conference champions and then it's just the next eight, which are, you know, who the committee thinks are good.

So if Notre Dame doesn't lose more than two games, you know.

Yeah I feel.

Almost like gave pretty.

Good at getting in there.

how's Indiana season going to be?

It may be better than Purdue's, no.

Maybe better than ranked higher than that.

So Kirk Short, the new coach at IU, I think, brought in, I think 30 some new players, only a handful left over from a from last year's roster.

Should be good.

So you're predicting they're going to make it?

Notre Dame I do have to say the idea that USC and UCLA are in the Big Ten, it's just it's just ridiculous.

I'm so big.

18 and IU.

Will beat UCLA in three weeks.

I'm so excited to see us.

USC play in like 25 degree Lansing and Michigan Tuesday.

No or snow.

It's going to be awesome.

All right that's Indiana Week in review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Ann DeLaney Republican Chris Mitchem, Jon Schwantes of Indiana lawmakers and Niki Kelly of the Indiana Capitol Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week in Review podcasts and episodes at wfyi.org/iwir or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in an Indiana week.

(celebrating) The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is a wfyi production in association with Indiana's public broadcasting stations.