>> Hi, I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur, and welcome to the "School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

And in this episode, Jessie Inchauspé, a.k.a.

The Glucose Goddess, discusses the reasons sugar impacts health negatively and teaches you strategies to indulge in your favorite sugary treats in a way that minimizes harm.

She also provides insights into seamless integration of glucose management techniques into our daily life, the impact of diet on mental health, and natural ways to satisfy cravings without compromising your health goals.

I'm so glad you're here today.

Now let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪♪ ♪♪ I think one of the greatest addictions is sugar right now.

And it is linked to so many different mental-health challenges, diseases, weight gain, all these things our relationships, and our lives.

>> Totally.

And the solution?

Ideally, we would stop eating sugar altogether, but, to me, that is impossible and quite painful.

I don't want Brussels sprouts on my birthday.

>> Right, yeah.

>> I want a triple-fudge chocolate cake, you know?

So my work has been about, how do you help people eat the sugar that they love in a way that is less damaging to their health?

So you get the dopamine, you get the pleasure molecule in your brain, but you don't get -- we'll talk about it, but the glucose spike, the addiction roller coaster, the inflammation, et cetera.

And I think that's why this work has resonated so much with people.

Nothing is off-limits.

You can still eat the carbs and the sugar, but in a specific way so that you also help your health at the same time.

>> Yes, because I think -- You know, when I think about -- I'm a very disciplined human being with everything else.

And to think about cutting out sugar completely, even though I know that it has some damaging effects on me, just makes me feel like, "Well, what's the point of life if I'm going to cut everything out?"

You know, it's like I want to enjoy something.

>> What's your favorite sugar?

And before we started rolling, you opened my book to the salted chocolate nut brittle recipe.

>> This book's amazing.

I mean, it's probably like cake and ice cream and brownies.

>> Are you into chocolate?

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I could eat every type of ice cream, sugar, cookies, candies.

All the processed sugar you can think of, I enjoy it.

Which is not a good thing, because when I eat non-processed sugar and I kind of stop eating the candy-bar process, I guess essence of sugar, and I have more dark chocolate with some honey or something, or some sea salt, like, I enjoy that, too.

So it's learning how to enjoy it differently.

>> Yes.

>> But what I've heard you talk about is the thing that is cool about your method -- Because I was kind of worried as I started researching about you originally, number one is, because there are so many different methods, strategies, diets, hacks in the food, nutrition, health and wellness space that I think cause a lot more harm than they do helping people because it is so restrictive.

But one of the first pages of your book talks about, "This is not a restrictive diet."

>> First of all, this is not a diet.

This is -- these are basic, common-sense strategies that probably your grandparents already had implemented into their lives, but now backed up by this modern science that allows us to see why they're so powerful.

And to me, the hacks that I share, they're not on the same level as the paleo diet, the keto diet.

For me, they're on the same level as drink water, brush your teeth, wear sunscreen.

>> Get eight hours of sleep.

>> Yeah, exactly.

We're talking about just basic physiology, basic health, stuff that should be taught in schools.

It's not a diet.

It's not a fad.

It's just how your body functions, and it's understanding physiologically how and when to eat your carbs with less impact on your health.

>> But it's not restricting you from eating anything.

>> No.

You can eat whatever you want.

So let me give you an example.

>> Now, you probably don't want to overconsume on sugar all day long.

>> Of course, but -- So, of course sugar is not good for us, right?

Sugar causes glucose spikes.

That leads to inflammation, aging, insulin release.

But the solution to this crazy food landscape that we live in, food environment, is not to cut out stuff.

I don't believe in that.

I think you try that for a week or, you know, you're like, "This year, I'm never going to eat sugar at all."

That doesn't work.

It never does.

So what I recommend people try is try some of these techniques.

For example, if you really want to eat some sugar, let's say a cookie or a doughnut or whatever, the best time to eat that sugar so that you have maximum dopamine from it, maximum pleasure and less impact on your body is going to be after a meal as dessert.

You want to always avoid eating sugar on an empty stomach and always avoid eating sugar in the morning.

>> Really?

>> Yes.

So, breakfast should be savory.

Okay?

In the morning, nothing sweet.

>> Really?

Man, those pastries, though, with the chocolate inside and just -- Oh, man.

The doughnut in the morning.

>> Keep them for dessert after lunch.

Because if you have them in the morning, then what's happening in your body?

As you digest that sugar and those carbs, they turn into glucose molecules, and these arrive into your bloodstream really quickly and cause what's called a glucose spike.

So blood sugar spike.

And then about 90 minutes later, Lewis, your glucose levels are going to drop.

You're going to feel a crash.

And now it's 10:00 a.m.

11:00 a.m., and all of a sudden, you feel more cravings for sweet foods.

You're like, "I need a cookie.

I need some chocolate.

I need a snack."

>> "I need that spike again."

>> And then you spike again.

And then all day, you're on a roller coaster where you feel addicted to sugar because your brain, when you're experiencing a glucose crash after a spike, the cravings center in your brain actually activates and says, "Lewis, find a cookie, find a cookie."

And you want to avoid that because then you cannot -- you cannot fight against the craving center in your brain.

>> So hard.

>> Yeah, that center is very powerful.

And it's linked to evolutionary responses that we have to low blood sugar.

So you want to avoid that from happening.

The way you do it is, have sugar after a meal as dessert.

Never on an empty stomach.

Never as a snack.

Never for breakfast.

>> Oh, my gosh.

Never as a snack.

So you eat something first before you have the sugar.

>> Exactly.

Or if you really need the snack, the sugar snack, what you do is another hack that I call put clothing on your carbs.

So what does that mean?

So, first of all, carbs.

Carbs are two types of foods -- starches -- so that's bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, oats -- or sugars -- anything that tastes sweet from a banana to chocolate cake.

Those are carbs, okay?

When you eat them on their own -- for example, a slice of cake on its own or a bowl of pasta on its own, well, carbs break down to glucose molecules.

So those naked carbs, very quickly, they end up as lots of glucose in your bloodstream, therefore a glucose spike.

What you want to do instead is put some clothing on your carbs.

And the clothing are proteins, fats, or fiber.

>> Before.

>> Or with them.

You can have them before or with them.

So, for example -- >> Can have a bite of cake, but then have something else, a fat within that.

>> Yeah, you could have, like, some Greek yogurt with the chocolate cake.

Or with the bowl of pasta, add some chicken or some cheese or some spinach, right?

Put clothing on your carbs.

>> Don't eat it naked.

>> Exactly.

Never eat your carbs naked so that they don't cause as big of a glucose spike.

Because when you put clothing on those carbs, digestion happens more slowly.

So you're still eating the carbs that you love with less impact on your glucose levels.

And this is just one of many different hacks that I have that help us eat the stuff we love with fewer consequences on our physical and mental health.

>> Mm.

That's powerful.

So, the more glucose spikes we have on a daily basis, and the more we have over time, it causes us to live less?

>> Yeah.

>> It won't allow us to live longer.

That's what I'm hearing you say.

>> It causes us to age faster through a process called glycation, yeah.

>> What does glycation mean?

>> So, glycation and glucose kind of sound like the same word.

They're similar -- glucose, glycation -- and this is why.

First of all, before we talk about glycation, I have to explain something to you.

So, you know when you put a chicken in the oven and it goes from pink to cooked, to brown?

What actually happened is that, in the oven, it glycated.

Glycation is the cooking process of the chicken.

Now, did you know that, as a human being, from the moment you're born, you slowly glycate, you slowly cook.

>> You start to cook.

>> Yes, like a chicken in the oven.

And then, when you're fully cooked, you die.

I know it sounds crazy, but it is true.

And on the inside, you're actually browning.

So if you look at the cartilage of a baby, it's white.

If you look at the cartilage of somebody who's 100 years old, it's brown.

It's been glycated.

Glycation is cooking, and it's aging.

Now, why am I telling you this?

Because every time you have a glucose spike, it accelerates glycation.

Glucose causes this cooking, causes this glycation, causes this aging.

So the more glucose spikes you have, the faster you age.

And this shows on your skin as wrinkles, right?

I'm actually 85 years old, but you can't tell 'cause I don't have glucose spikes.

And it also ages your organs within.

And that's just one of the few things that happen when you have too many glucose spikes over time.

>> Wow.

How many glucose spikes is ideal to have on a daily basis?

Like, what's the optimal amount of spikes that we should have?

>> As little as possible, I would say.

>> How do you keep -- I mean, besides not eating, I guess.

How do you not have a glucose spike when you're eating foods?

>> You avoid eating too many carbs on their own, too many carbs for breakfast, too many processed foods.

But I don't want people to become too obsessed with keeping their glucose levels perfectly steady, because you can actually do that in some unhealthy ways.

What I want people to think about is, do they have symptoms of glucose spikes?

Do they feel cravings for sugar?

Do they feel tired throughout the day?

Do they ever experience brain fog, mental slowness?

Do they not sleep very well?

Do they have inflammation on their skin like acne, psoriasis, eczema, et cetera?

Those are all signs of glucose spikes.

If you can never leave the house without a snack because you know you're going to be hungry every couple of hours, that's glucose spikes causing that.

And so, as we implement these hacks, you can actually check in with yourself and see that these symptoms are improving.

You don't have to wear a glucose monitor.

You don't have to track your glucose levels to see the spikes or the no spikes.

You will feel better and pretty quickly, too, because your glucose levels respond in a matter of minutes to what you eat and what you do.

So I recommend people learn to check in with themselves and see how they feel.

>> What is the optimal amount of eating in a day to manage glucose in a good way?

>> Are you into intermittent fasting?

>> Yeah.

>> Kind of?

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> It's been very trendy recently.

But you don't actually need to fast for many hours a day to have healthy glucose levels.

No, it's more about what you eat, right?

>> So you don't need to skip breakfast.

You don't need to skip dinner.

>> No, you don't.

>> You don't need to have 500 calories a day and restrict calories.

>> No.

>> Now, are you still gonna look healthy and lose weight in this process, or are you going to gain weight if you're just eating whatever in the right order?

>> So, there's the order thing, but the hacks that I share, they allow you to stop focusing on the calories, stop focusing on the restriction, and just kind of understand what molecules are in your food.

And then, naturally, as you focus on these glucose hacks, a lot of other things fall into place because you're less hungry.

You have fewer cravings for all the processed junk so -- >> Your hormones are healthier.

>> Exactly.

Your hunger hormones are more balanced instead of you feeling famished every two hours.

So, naturally, when you focus on the hacks, a lot of things fall into place into your body.

And then, on the fasting topic, I just want to remind people that intermittent fasting is not necessary to have a healthy body.

You don't need to fast in order to be healthy.

It's much more important to eat well in a way that keeps your glucose levels steady than to restrict your eating window, for example.

Especially for females, that fasting is actually a stressor on the body.

So if you already have a life where stressful job, kids to take care of, you don't sleep a lot, you drink coffee, you do intense cardio exercise, maybe you do cold showers.

You add fasting on top of that, that is a lot of stress for your body to handle.

And that's why you see some women who are piling on all these things, their hormones are breaking down.

They feel exhausted all the time.

Their body is just being like, "No, that's too much stress."

So, I love fasting when I'm on vacation, for example, and it feels like an easy stress to add on, but when I'm working and I'm doing lots of stuff, I prefer to have breakfast, to have a savory breakfast, as I explained, to keep my glucose levels steady, and to just eat three times a day, you know?

Yeah.

>> Something you mentioned here that I love is around freedom.

And I think a lot of people don't feel free today with food, diets, restrictions, needing to biohack their life all the time.

It feels like they always have to do something else or restrict something they love in order to be healthy, in order to optimize their life.

And the more I'm hearing you speak about just understanding -- It's almost like intuitive eating as opposed to restricting, counting calories, fasting, all these other things that are trendy right now.

'Cause my fear is that a lot of women, specifically, and now men more, more so with social media, feel like they need to look perfect all the time.

They feel like they need to eat a certain way and be on the recent trends in order for their bodies to morph in a way that makes them feel like they're enough.

>> It's so tough, huh?

>> So how do we apply these hacks without feeling like it's some new trend, but more understanding it's more intuitive for me to just live a holistic, healthy life?

>> Yeah.

Well, first of all, if it's not calling you, like, don't do it, right?

It's totally fine.

Whatever works for you.

But I found a lot of benefit from people switching from the fads and the restricting and the intense stuff, and that relationship with your body that becomes a forceful relationship.

It's like you're battling with your body every day, right?

You're like holding on really strongly and trying to prevent these -- these -- this hunger and these cravings and just trying to be really tight.

>> That willpower.

>> Yeah.

>> It's so hard to have willpower forever.

>> So hard, so hard.

And a lot of these fads, unfortunately, they're just not based on science, right?

They are marketing machines.

And that's also being used by the food industry to sell you more processed foods, et cetera.

So I think what people will find in my work is, I'm a biochemist.

And so I'm coming back to the principles of physiology.

How does your body actually work and how does food impact your hormones, your cells, your energy levels, your mitochondria?

I'm not trying to push some crazy new extreme diet.

I'm just showing you some simple stuff that actually has been used for centuries.

It's not very groundbreaking when you think about it.

Let me give you an example.

So, the four hacks in my second book are savory breakfast instead of a sweet one, vinegar before you eat carbs, a vegetable starter -- so starting your meals with veggies -- and moving after eating.

>> And what's the science behind all those hacks?

>> Okay.

So, savory breakfast instead of a sweet one.

First of all, that's been done since forever.

Sweet breakfasts?

That's an invention of the food industry.

Okay?

We didn't used to have dessert for breakfast.

It doesn't make any sense.

We used to have meat and potatoes.

So, savory breakfast instead of a sweet one.

Because if you have a savory breakfast that's built around protein and not, let's say, orange juice and granola, which is pure glucose, then your glucose levels are going to stay nice and steady with the savory breakfast instead of having a big spike, and then that addiction roller coaster we talked about.

So the spike and the cravings and the spike and the cravings and the spike and the cravings.

You don't want to be on that roller coaster because then that prevents you from living the day you want to live.

It prevents you from being able to use your energy and your passion and your talents to express in the world.

You are being controlled by that cravings roller coaster if you start the day with a sweet breakfast.

So that's the first one -- savory breakfast, built around protein.

Nothing sweet except whole fruit, if you want something that tastes a little bit sweet.

>> Yeah, but after you eat the protein.

>> Exactly.

So, for example, you know, this morning I had some leftover salmon cakes.

I had some green beans.

>> Sounds good.

>> Yeah.

Green beans and some rice and some parmesan cheese.

And, to me, treating my breakfast like I would any other meal has completely changed my life.

And it almost feels like -- I often get people who tell me, "I was having a sweet breakfast my whole life, and now I'm having this savory breakfast, and it feels like I walked through a mirror."

You know, in the movies, like the "Alice in Wonderland," like walking through to this alternate universe, parallel universe, that's how it feels.

Because all of a sudden, you're in control.

You're energized.

You feel good.

>> Interesting.

Okay.

>> So that's breakfast.

Okay?

>> Yeah.

>> Second hack that I love talking about is vinegar.

Now, everybody has vinegar in their kitchen.

>> But no one uses it.

[ Both laugh ] >> True.

>> No one likes to taste it.

>> True.

But it's an ingredient that's been around for centuries in our culture.

And actually, in some countries, it's very well known that it's something that is good for you.

It's healthy, right?

In Iran, for example, they have apple cider vinegar every day.

It's a health drink.

But only recently have we understood why it's good for us.

So the reason vinegar is so cool -- >> What's the science behind it?

>> Vinegar contains a molecule called acetic acid, okay?

And acetic acid, what it does when you have it before a meal is that it slows down the breakdown of carbs into glucose molecules.

So it acts on enzymes in your stomach, and it slows down how quickly the food you just ate is going to be turned into individual glucose molecules and then enter your bloodstream.

Okay?

So the second hack is 1 tablespoon of vinegar in a big glass of water before a meal that contains carbs.

>> I've done this a bunch in the past -- not a bunch, but a handful of times -- and I just feel like I have to close my nose while I'm drinking this tall glass of water because it just -- it burns, it tastes bad, it smells bad.

It's just like, "Man, this is not enjoyable."

So how do you make it enjoyable with vinegar?

Is there like unflavored vinegar or lemon vinegar?

>> You can try white-wine vinegar.

You can try making a dressing and putting it on your meal instead of drinking it.

And I know it's not great, and so I have some ideas about how you could use other things to have the same effect, but, nonetheless, the scientific studies are there showing us it does have an impact.

And it's very simple, and it's cheap.

>> Yeah.

>> But if you don't like it, don't force yourself.

>> But before every meal?

>> No, I would say once a day before a meal that's high in carbs, right >> That's it.

>> Yeah.

>> And what is the -- when you track this with a glucose monitor or how you're tracking it, what do you see the spike doing instead?

>> You see 30% reduction in the glucose spike.

>> If you just have a tablespoon... >> Tablespoon and a big glass of water, diluted, before eating carbs.

>> Like 10 minutes before?

Doesn't matter?

>> 5 to 10 minutes.

>> Wow.

30% less of a spike.

>> Yep.

So you still eat the carbs you love with less impact on your glucose levels.

>> Interesting.

>> But if you hate this hack, it's fine.

The other hacks are just as powerful, right?

So, the savory breakfast one will transform your entire day, the experience of your whole life, essentially.

And then the third hack is called the veggie starter hack.

So, that means -- that hack means having a plate of vegetables at the beginning of a meal.

And you might think, "Okay --" Actually, this has been done for a long time.

In France, we have this concept called crudité, which is raw veggies at the beginning of a meal.

In Italy, antipasti, all the roasted nice vegetables.

In the Middle East, they eat herbs by the bunch at the beginning of a meal.

You know that salad with vinaigrette?

It's quite a common way to start a meal, and now we understand why.

It's because veggies contain an amazing substance called fiber.

Fiber -- she's amazing.

>> [ Laughs ] >> I love her.

>> She's on fire.

>> She's amazing.

[ Laughs ] And fiber, when you have fiber in vegetables at the beginning of a meal, the fiber has time to go and coat your upper intestine and to create a sort of protective shield, like a superhero deploying herself on the walls of your upper intestine.

>> Really?

>> Yeah!

And it's this sort of gooey, viscous mesh that is improving your gut lining.

And then any glucose coming down afterwards will not be able to get through your bloodstream as quickly.

>> Wow.

>> Mm-hmm.

So, the veggie starter is an incredibly powerful hack.

And you can even combine it to the vinegar hack by making a little vinegar dressing and putting it on your veggies.

>> What does that do?

Does it decrease even more?

>> It decreases even more the glucose spike of the meal.

Yeah.

So, you still have the pasta and whatever you like... >> And cake and sugar.

>> Yeah.

So, you see, what happens when you do these hacks is that you can still eat the carbs you love, but then you're creating less of a spike.

Therefore, the carbs are, first of all, not having as big of a negative impact on your health -- less inflammation, less glycation, less insulin release -- and you're avoiding the creation of that cravings rollercoaster, which is the main issue because most of us, when we have something sweet, then two hours later we want more sweets.

>> Yes.

>> And then it's 11:00 p.m.

and you've eaten 56 cookies, right?

>> Yes.

>> That's what we want to avoid.

We want to have the stuff we love without creating this cycle of becoming a victim to more sugar cravings.

>> Mm.

>> The last hack I'll mention -- and you'll love this one -- It has to do with muscles.

You got some good muscles, no?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

So you know how to use these.

>> I want them bigger, though.

>> You want bigger muscles?

>> Want them stronger.

>> Really?

>> Let's go.

>> Nice.

>> Not too big, but, you know, just athletic big.

>> Yeah, you want more.

You know why?

It's for your glucose levels.

>> It is.

It helps you process sugar better when you have more muscle.

>> Exactly, and the reason is -- So, glucose is your body's favorite source of energy.

Every single cell in your body burns glucose for energy.

So, right now, your brain cells are burning glucose to understand what I'm saying.

You're holding a pen.

That means your hand cells are burning glucose to contract and hold that pen up.

If you're listening to us, you know, every single part of your body is currently burning glucose to perform its function.

And your muscles, as I mentioned, also burn glucose to contract, okay?

And we can use this to our advantage.

The fourth hack in my method is, once a day, after one meal, use your muscles for 10 minutes.

>> Move.

Walk.

Stretch.

>> Move.

Walk.

>> Jump.

>> Exactly.

You can even -- >> 10 minutes.

>> Clean your apartment.

Do the dishes.

Fold your laundry.

Go grocery shopping.

If you're at work and you can't do any movement, you can do some calf raises underneath your desk for 10 minutes.

Lots of easy little ways to get that movement in so that your muscles will absorb some of the glucose from the meal.

>> What happens if it's 10:00 at night, you know, Ben & Jerry's is calling my name... >> Yeah, baby.

>> ...from the freezer, or whatever ice cream you like is calling my name?

I'm just sitting there watching a movie, eating a whole thing of ice cream.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I sit there.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I go to bed a couple hours later.

What happens to the brain, body, gut if you do that by itself without applying these hacks?

>> Well, you're gonna experience a very big glucose spike as you're watching the movie and eating the Ben & Jerry's.

That's gonna have impact on your brain.

It's gonna increase inflammation.

It's gonna mess up your sleep hormones.

You're not gonna sleep as well.

Your sleep is not gonna be as deep or as restful.

You might even wake up the next day feeling hungover.

You know, you never get hungover 'cause you don't drink, but sometimes you can feel hungover from sugar.

>> Wow.

>> If you've had it late at night, you're gonna feel a bit groggy.

You might feel like your hands have swollen a little bit during the night.

>> Your face is swollen.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> Interesting.

>> And then, with that glucose spike, you're also increasing glycation aging.

You're also increasing insulin release, which over time builds up to a diagnosis of pre-diabetes, for example.

And whatever sort of health background your body has, if you've ever experienced symptoms from brain fog to psoriasis to fertility problems, that spike is going to make those worse.

>> Mm.

>> So, let's say you're watching that movie, you're eating the Ben & Jerry's.

You have a few options.

You can have a handful of almonds as you're having the ice cream to put some clothing on the ice cream.

>> Yeah.

You could do a vinegar drink.

You could also grab a book or a bottle of water and, after you eat the ice cream, maybe do some bicep curls as you're watching the movie to help your muscles soak up some of that glucose.

There's always solutions.

>> So, if I've eaten the cake, the ice cream, the cookies, and I've forgotten to do all these things beforehand, but I can still do it afterwards... >> Yes.

>> ...a little bit?

Even if the sugar is just in my gut already and just soaking down there, I can still have a couple almonds or have vinegar and it'll still help?

>> The best thing to do afterwards is movement.

>> Move.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So do some calf raises.

You're sitting on the couch.

Calf raises for 10 minutes during the movie, that's gonna help, actually.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, yeah.

And you can do that up to 90 minutes after eating, the movement, the muscles.

>> Ohh, okay, cool.

Do some push-ups, whatever it might be.

>> Totally.

>> Okay, so, these are the four hacks in this book.

Do you have other hacks that you recommend, as well?

>> Yes.

So, these are the four most powerful important ones to start with.

But in my first book I have some other ones that are really lovely, as well.

So, we talked about clothes on carbs.

That's one I really enjoy.

And another one is about snacks.

So, when you want to snack -- >> Mm.

Should we eat snacks?

>> If you want.

It's better not to.

It's better to wait between your meals, but sometimes you're hungry.

Sometimes it's 4:00 p.m.

and you're hungry.

So, what you gonna do?

[ Both laugh ] Ideally, you would have a savory snack, as I explained, right?

>> Not sweet.

>> Not sweet.

okay?

Sweet equal dessert.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness," coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes, and if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, Now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website, lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of the "School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

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