And now the 490 with Gretchen De backer.

Matt, kill em, and Kevin Mullin.

Welcome into the 419.

Powered by and presented by Whiterock Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullin, Gretchen Becker.

Matt killing.

Are you going to be okay?

I'm sorry.

He's got the giggles.

I do, I do.

We've got an exciting show.

Yes we do.

We got some great people.

We're going to be talking to some some serious topics, which is a little bit different from what we normally do.

But behind even those serious topics, there's great people 100.

And that's kind of been the focus of our show, is talking to great people about their passion and why they why they're involved in these things and how they got involved in these things.

And so, of course, we'll do that.

We'll have Dorothy Stern from Good Grief is going to join us.

And then we'll also have Randy Muth from Lucas County Children's Services.

And then we're going to have more lighthearted conversation with Jesse Squire, a local runner.

I don't know if I call him, maybe he call himself the kind of the the historian of Toledo running.

We're going to talk about the significance of the Glass City Marathon and the victory this year.

Yeah.

And it's it's big for the running community, but I think it could be big for Toledo as well.

I'm so excited to get his perspective.

It's an appropriate context for it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I realized as we were starting the show today just how old I am.

You do realize that today I did, I did.

But here's here's why.

I know this is the latest sort of reminder of how old I am, is that you guys were talking about meetings that got canceled today.

Yeah.

And your excitement around it.

And I get so excited when meetings cancel.

Yeah.

Like, it's like, one of the best gifts that someone can give me is to, like, at the last minute and be like, hey, we and like.

And I want to be clear, it's not so that I could otherwise get stuff done and like be more efficient because I have this free time so that I can do nothing.

Oh, no.

No.

For me.

It's.

Yeah, it's like an extra hour in the day so I can get it done.

So I'm excited about that.

Yeah.

Me too then.

Yeah.

Me too.

Me three.

But that's.

I think it is.

It's got a nice somebody.

You block it out.

I've got this focus time.

And then it's like, yeah, I'm not gonna do the only commodity there is time.

Right?

Getting it back to fill it with anything you want is a rarity.

I didn't realize being an adult so terrible.

That's a public service announcement for Matt.

Him?

Yeah.

For kids listening in the car.

That's right.

For anyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I was a kid, I used to be so excited to, like, get out of school and have a real job and get vacation time and all of this.

Yeah.

That's right.

No, it's.

Yeah.

And it's like, now it's not as great as it is.

It's.

So neither of you are even shaving.

So that's not true.

You should see my back if I don't know.

Thank you.

Yeah, sure.

Well, that's an open invitation.

Where all the listeners.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When I say that's the show, I mean, that's entirely of the series.

We're just canceled right now.

Never again.

And rightfully so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's fair.

So we we were going to talk a little bit about the timing of all these things, leaders in their fields.

And I am interested in talking to Jesse about one of the opportunities, the great connective trail system we have as well.

So if we have time on his segment, all the work that all the green spaces, all the municipalities, we've got Mondays.

So we get to hear a little bit about the infrastructure that's placed in there.

And from Dorothy, you know, sort of the human people infrastructure, because you can't have a healthy community without healthy people.

And she addresses a very specific part of things that are particularly challenging that are desperately needed.

And she's a great lady.

So I was excited to see the runner show this morning.

And Randy has a very difficult job and a very difficult time.

So we'll be asking some questions and talk about the future of his leadership.

Awesome.

Let's take a break.

When we come back, we will dive in to this Tuesday edition of the 419 with Jesse Squier talking about the significance of the Glass City Marathon.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Powered by the Glass City Marathon.

Is just a couple of weeks ago.

And something happened that's never happened before.

The guy who run it, who won the race was stupid, fast.

And like, we're talking about, like, nationally stupid fast.

We're joined now by Jesse Squier.

Jesse, you have been billed to me as a historian of all things Toledo running.

Is that an accurate?

Yeah, yeah.

That would be.

That would be accurate.

Yeah.

Another way of saying I'm old.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't use those terms.

You can blame my brother for that one who's also in the running community.

But let's just start.

I want to get into your background a little bit, but let's dive in.

Just like Glass City Marathon.

Vinnie just won this thing in two hours and five minutes.

What does that mean, two hours and five minutes and 54 seconds for Vinny Maori.

He's a 24 year old kid that a year ago was running for Notre Dame University or University of Notre Dame.

And it's not just fast.

It's it's shockingly fast.

It makes him the fifth fastest American marathoner of all time.

It means that the Glass City Marathon now has the fifth fastest course record in the United States.

So we're talking about almost as fast as the New York City Marathon.

What is this young man's name?

Vinnie Maori.

And and was this expected?

Is this.

Was this predicted on either his part or anybody else's part?

No, that's the thing.

I would characterize this as the most shocking moment in the history of marathon running anywhere in the world, ever.

Because we're not talking about a veteran marathoner, right?

How many marathons had Vinnie run prior to the Glass City Marathon?

Zero.

How many half marathons had he run?

Zero.

How many ten K's had he run?

Zero.

Zero.

Yeah, he.

A year ago, he was a collegiate runner.

He was a very talented collegiate runner from the Youngstown area.

Shorter distances.

What was his run?

Yeah, yeah.

And when he first went off to college, he was doing the mile and a half mile, and they gradually moved him up.

But it was one of those things where he he had a lot of talent and he was very fit.

But, you know, some injuries and other things just didn't work out.

He had a constantly rotating system of coaches, and he said all of them were very, very good coaches.

But when you have five coaches in four years, you know, things get difficult.

Yeah, inevitably.

I mean, this this win puts Vinnie on a lot of radars, but it also Toledo on some radars.

Yeah, it makes Vinnie he can get into any marathon that he wants.

And not only can he get it in, they're going to pay him a large amount of money just to show up to the start line.

Because.

Because of this record.

Yes, yes.

I mean, basically the world record was set the exact same day in London.

So six hours, you know, six hour time zones away.

But in the marathon, in the running press, a very, very niche thing.

Maori actually seemed to be a bigger story because everybody kind of knew this world record was coming sooner or later.

And the man who broke it was it was not shocking that that was the guy that broke it.

But but Maori, it's it's similar to if a former Greens keeper out of nowhere was about to win the Masters.

If you remember the movie Caddyshack.

Yeah, it would be in that vein.

So is this is it possible?

I'm so interested in the just the mechanics of him signing up for the race and doing it.

Is it possible this is a fluke running that fast?

You can't.

It's.

Well, if you've ever swung a golf club, you know that sometimes you hit a shot where you say, I could not do that again for a million if you trust.

Okay.

Running doesn't work like that.

Yeah.

You can't accidentally run fast for 26 miles.

Yeah.

That would be like accidentally knocking or running right through an NFL linebacker.

You cannot physically do it accidentally.

It you have to have the physical ability and interviews that he's conducted are things that you've read about him since.

Is it his plan to now proceed and stay in this and do continue to do marathons?

Oh, yes.

He's he said he had said his plan was to do the Chicago Marathon this fall, which is to say that Toledo now is being mentioned in the same breath of this.

It's the Glass City marathon.

Well, it's very fine marathon.

It's a great race.

It's a well-organized, wonderful community race.

It's firmly ensconced about the fourth level of minor leagues.

So it's an ACL race.

And Vinny Murray did a Stanley Cup final run.

Give us some context for this.

I mean it's 26.2 miles everywhere, right?

I mean, so what makes one race better than another?

Well, we're going to say that one thing is that it's really just how much money they have to be able to put on things.

Toledo.

I love Toledo, but we don't have a ton of money.

And what corporate sponsorship money we have for sports, it almost always goes to golf tournaments because that's what we have.

We have we have the Inverness club that puts on a lot of major events.

And then Highland Meadows puts on the LPGA thing and we're always happy to have that.

But the reason that we haven't had a true major golf tournament at the Inverness club for a long time is because we just don't have major corporations to be able to put up that kind of money.

And so New York, Boston, Chicago, LA have big sponsor dollars, big purses if you win, which increases competition.

Yeah.

But the reality is what Vinny came in and did was run a time that would have won any of those any of those.

I don't want to discount the much bigger story here, but just out of curiosity, because people will be interested.

What is the purse at some of these?

Well, I actually took I made a note of that.

Okay.

So if you win, it's a $1,000 payday.

If you break the course record, it's a $1,000 bonus if you qualify for the trials.

Another $500 bonus.

So, Vinnie, 100 bucks.

Yeah.

$2,500.

Okay.

In Chicago and New York, the winner walks away with a $100,000.

A $50,000 bonus for a course record at Boston.

The Boston Marathon, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

And that was $150,000.

And then there's other things that aren't really explicitly set out there.

Every one of the elites that at all of those races have major sponsors.

Okay.

Just like just like a golf professional has has major sponsors and it's written into their contracts that if they have massive success, they're going to get a bonus in their contract.

The other thing is that the the major marathons will also provide an appearance fee, because you're not going to show up.

You know, there's sports or risk.

There's no guarantee that you're going to win.

But for you to show up, they're going to have to pay you.

And they pay appearance fees, hotel accommodations, travel reimbursements.

And the Glass City Marathon website specifically says, please note we do not provide these things.

So other than the purse and the sort of notoriety of some of those larger marathons, is the course one of the considerations to hilly flat this anything like that?

I mean, it can be.

Chicago is very, very flat.

It runs more or less north, south, right along the lakefront, not too far away from it.

In that part of Chicago is pretty flat, but New York and Boston not flat races.

Glass city is.

But you know, if you're not fast, it doesn't matter.

Right.

Did you walk for hunger, which used to be an event?

That was the following weekend or before or after camera the Boston Marathon.

And I was in great shape.

So this was just walking and it was a beautiful walk.

He walked by MIT.

You walked by Fenway Park.

I got splints, though, for the very first time, and I was 18 years old and just out of soccer season, and it gave me just a taste of how grueling this would be.

Have you ran?

How many marathons have you run for?

Okay, yes.

For I, at some point you get old enough that you have to start going back and counting.

Sure.

Yeah.

And it's not like I have double digits to count.

Yeah, and I'm just.

I'm just an ordinary guy.

I was the Rudy of my college team.

To give you an idea.

Where did you run?

I ran at Bowling Green.

Sure.

Okay.

So.

And there's an incredible running history at coming out of Bowling Green.

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

Yeah.

What is.

What is Vinnie's win mean for Toledo?

Right.

So as we talk about next year's Glass City Marathon, as we talk about the Garmin, like what?

What does this win mean for those races?

Well, what it has done is that outside of the Toledo area, it's essentially unknown.

Just like if you said the Huntington Center, well, outside of the area, it's unknown.

It's a wonderful hockey arena.

It's a fantastic place.

The only reason the fifth third field is known much outside of northwest Ohio is because the Mud Hens name is world famous, and it's a fantastic baseball stadium.

It's it's absolutely it's the anchor of what has what the downtown redevelopment.

That's what really gave us the first push.

And so we have a fantastic, wonderful marathon put on by by caring people.

And we have a tremendous community comes out in cheers.

And until now nobody knew that because there's 50 races like that across the country.

And it's small because we don't have a big budget to put on something bigger than that.

And it's a small city.

You know, it's it's not, you know, New York has how many millions of people.

So and it's and it's the center of attention for so many things.

But I guarantee you there are ordinary people around the country saying, hey, that sounds like a great race.

Let's go to that.

Yeah.

And it's and when you travel for a race, you know, you are being budget conscious.

And Toledo is one of the reasons I love Toledo is it's a wonderful city.

And it's also not expensive to deliver travel here.

And so but I also was saying earlier for the show, I guarantee you that there are unknown Kenyan runners waking up in the mountain highlands of Kenya saying, Where is Toledo?

Yeah, I'm going to go to Toledo because that's a place where anyone can become something.

What is the what is the addition of the Garmin marathon to the community meant to the running community?

That's Bill.

We've only had it for one year, so I don't really I can't really say exactly how that is.

I thought that it would maybe cut into the participation at Glass City, but it doesn't seem to have the practice.

I mean, the races were sold out just like usual the races or were close to it.

And so the Garmin also is a wonderful race.

It takes you through a different part of Toledo the way back.

Way back in the 80s, the Glass City Marathon, of course, starting finished downtown.

And I want to say about 20 years ago they moved it out to the University of Toledo, using our wonderful Metroparks and the University Parks Trail.

And a large part of that was was during baseball season.

And we just can't have a race start and finish downtown on a Sunday when there's a baseball game.

Yeah, yeah.

But Dartmouth now is in September when baseball season is over and hockey is not yet started up.

So it's a time when there's a lull downtown.

Jesse, you had a couple of years ago, you you took on an interesting challenge to run and see Toledo in a different way.

Talk to us about what that what that challenge was 2021.

There still wasn't a whole lot to do.

I we were still teaching online at school.

So I had a lot of, a lot of free time, nothing much to do.

So I decided I was going to run through every park in the Toledo area.

So that was every Metropark, every municipal park, the few state parks we have like Maumee Bay, any, any even like park, like public space, like the area around the the art museum, which they call art in a park.

Right.

So I decided I was going to do that.

I could hook together two or 3 or 4, sometimes even 5 or 6 parks if they were close together.

And it took me into parts of Toledo that I had never been.

I've lived here my whole life.

I've been around lots of different places in Toledo, and I did not realize just the diversity of all different kinds of neighborhoods, and that different things can just there are little pockets of neighborhoods that you wouldn't ever know if you didn't live there, and you didn't see it on your feet.

Right.

I did see it on my own, but.

But you wouldn't otherwise be able to see it.

Were you not sort of running through it?

How long did that take you to accomplish?

I started the 1st of January.

I think I finished up in May.

Wow.

What was your favorite part to run through and why was it a metro park?

I actually got lost at Oak openings one day.

I my my my GPS watch failed some.

They dropped it, dropped a signal.

I had no far no idea how far I went.

It was in the newer edition of the park with the.

To me it's newer where all the mountain bike trails and you know, I just kept going and kept going.

And I said, it's it's shocking how large.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

You can you can easily run a marathon, a trail marathon and oak openings without covering any ground twice.

Easily done.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you're a runner.

You've been doing this for a long time.

I see you've got a shoe with you sort of as a prop here, but like.

I mean, how is the technology changed?

I mean, I think I was when you handed that to me, I was shocked at the weight of that.

But like, how is that changed in your time?

Okay.

So marathon times and other running times have have dropped in the last few years.

I think it was about 2018, 2019.

Some some new technology came on.

So this is this is very similar to what Vinnie Murray ran ran in.

It's not exact.

I'm sorry you stole this kid's shoe.

No.

You got to catch him first.

Second soul lent this to me so I could use it as a problem.

And so if you notice the what we call the midsole, the outsole is what hits the ground on the insoles which put is in contact with.

But the midsole, the cushions, it's much thicker than it used to be.

I mean we have a radio portion of this.

How thick?

This is like an inch.

This is okay.

So this is 40mm.

It's four centimeters.

So we're talking about half inch and three quarters.

But it it rides up the side so it looks significantly thicker than that.

So they came up with a new a new material that not only is significantly lighter but it also returns more energy.

It's bouncier okay.

There's also a carbon plate in here, a carbon fiber plate in it which acts as a little bit of a string.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

So so so there's all of that.

So this is what Vinny Maori paid with his employee discounted second.

So this is what he got.

The world record that was set the same day in London was a prototype made specifically for that runner by the main factor, which was half as much as this.

Same manufacturer, same designer.

I have no idea.

I have no idea.

That's true.

Yeah, I feel how heavy that thing is.

Oh my God.

Wow.

It's amazing.

It's like holding a cloud.

Yeah.

Yes.

It also seems, you know, I was supporting a friend that was running in the marathon last week, a couple of weeks ago.

This seems like such a flat plane along the soul.

Then what you've seen previously on running shoes that have sort of, you know, would be come out and be more curved.

Is that part of the design to this flat side?

I, I can actually say, I don't know that I can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about.

No.

Well but but yeah.

Yeah, well, but if you look at the front of it, the front of it is very curved.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So and that's where you're pushing.

Yeah.

So also the back end of it, you can see there's just not as much at the right behind the heel as there was.

Yeah.

If you go straight down to the outsole it's sort of like cut in a little bit.

Jesse, if we're wrapping up here, got about 30s left.

What's something that that people don't know about the running community in Toledo that you want to make sure that that they know we have one of the best running communities and one of the best places.

We have more great places to run than almost anywhere.

Pacific Northwest and Flagstaff, Arizona and Asheville are probably about only of the three places that have a speed.

Okay, we don't have a lot of hills, but we have more wonderful places to run than almost any city in America.

If someone's going to go out and try to run for the first time this weekend, where would you say they go and try it?

Wildwood Metropark and I'm man.

Yeah.

Good.

Thank you.

Jesse, nice to meet you.

Jesse, thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to take a break and we come back.

We're going to talk to the leader of Good Grief of Northwest Ohio.

We'll be right back on the 418. me, community means connecting to others.

I'm Dani Miller and welcome to the Point.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by.

We've got some incredible people making a difference in our community, working for phenomenal organizations, including our next guest, Dorothy with good grief Northwest Ohio.

Dorothy, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

People aren't familiar with good grief.

What what is your organization?

So we support grieving children, teens, families and young adults who've had a death impact their lives.

And we do that in a couple of places.

We have a program space in mommy, and that's where we support the whole family.

And then we also are in about 20 local schools in a variety of school districts.

So they are our staff goes in and we actually partner right with the schools.

And like I said, this year we were in about 20 different schools.

And the there is a bit not an official waiting list, but there's been some inquiries about other school districts in the area.

Dorothy, can you talk a little bit about both the the clinical, if that's appropriate and specific definition of grief or just conceptually what it is?

Well, yeah, it's pretty simple.

It's the feeling we feel when somebody we love has died.

So that that that feeling that we can no longer interact with them, we can't get to them.

And what.

And there's also what we call secondary losses.

It's not just the death.

The death is huge.

But then so many other things change, particularly for kids.

They may have to move to another house.

They might have to go to a different school.

If it was a parent, their family's financial situation may change drastically.

So it's it's a it's a sort of this whole big ball of things that are set into motion when a death occurs and the ripple effect or the byproducts of grief, how does it manifest within children?

Yeah.

So we know that kids that are what we call unaddressed childhood grief at are at a much higher risk of problems with depression, anxiety, substance abuse, poor life choices, less resiliency.

They tend to not do as well in school.

It's, you know, when you think about it, it is.

Grief is a physiological and a psychological event.

And so it's going to impact everything we do, including the decisions we make.

And so sometimes the things that kids may come across as some sort of behavior is really just the fact that they are drenched in grief and have no support for it.

One of the things is commonly used that I loathe is, well, kids are resilient and I hate that conceptually.

Oh, I hate every syllable of that.

First of all, that isn't the bar that we want to set for our children, right?

Correct.

So can you talk to me about that?

And and maybe I'm totally up here and you know that I adore you.

I'm told, Candy, we are our frie And you know how much I appreciate this work.

But talk to me about the kids.

Resilient.

Yeah, I guess, but is that what we're hoping to achieve as a society?

I mean, what, so you're right.

Yeah, that is partially true.

Kids are resilient, but oftentimes kids need help to to explore and express these difficult, traumatic things to be able to tap into that resiliency.

So our goal with our with our groups is to help kids identify healthy ways to cope with it.

Positive people in their lives, activities that can help running, shooting hoops, taking a walk.

And then in those cases, because when you have a positive way to deal with the pain, your kids are less likely to turn to the less healthy ways of because it it won't be ignored.

Right.

We can't take it away.

This conversation reminds me a little bit.

I don't know if you've had the opportunity to to read Molly Shannon memoir.

She was that woman that was on Saturday Night Live.

I haven't.

It's so good.

And when she was young, around seven or so years old, she was in a car accident with her mother and sister, and they were both killed.

And she talks a lot in the book about what relatives and things were saying to her at that time, like they've gone to heaven or they're, you know, they're just, you know, they're in a better place.

Phrases.

And she said, well, I. And she says, I want to go there like, you know, and didn't understand, couldn't comprehend what it was they were talking about.

And, and really, you know, it just wasn't discussed at that time.

Right.

Certainly her dad and family were doing the best that they could, but then it manifested way later, like into her teens.

What do you tell families that are experiencing this to the words like the language that you're supposed to use or that maybe is better for kids to be able to understand the understandable.

Right, exactly.

So it's really just being honest and being present and being non-judgmental.

So we talk about that in our groups a lot.

The kids talk about the platitudes of like, you know, and we say no good sentence starts with, well, at least.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so it's really just like, I can't fix this for you, but I can be fully present to you while you feel and express whatever it is that you need to.

And like in Molly's case, the adults around her were also deeply grieving.

That's right.

And so it's difficult to be.

They're just humans too.

Right.

Right, exactly.

And so, you know, in, in what we often see sometimes is that kids will try to protect their adults, and the adults are trying to protect their kids.

And so there's this sort of roadblock to true communication.

And that's why a place like Good Grief is so important.

So the kids are in their age divided groups.

We were kids from 4 to 18, and then the grown ups that care for those kids are in their own group at the same time.

So that puts them, gives them time to tend to their own grief, and it puts them in community with other adults who are raising grieving kids.

How did you get into this work?

Well, my mom died when I was very young.

And you know that that that's definitely the way we were brought up is that they're resilient.

I was only three, so the thought was, she's not going to remember.

And so I went through life kind of struggling really honestly and happened to be looking for a job.

And good grief was looking for a director.

And I had actually accepted another position somewhere else when I heard about this job.

And I'm like, wait a minute.

I'd never heard of anything like childhood grievance support, but had thought to myself as an adult what how different my family's story would have been had there been literally any kind of support when it happened.

And so when I heard about it, I couldn't get my hand up fast enough or high enough and saved each other to some degree, or at least helped each other.

Oh, definitely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In my line of work, I deal with represent.

I'm a criminal defense lawyer, and I represent young men, often young African-American boys, 16, 17, 18 years old, who by that age, no five people that have been killed by gun violence have friends, family, cousins, relatives, dads.

I mean, multiple people for sure.

And you know, that level of impact on their lives and trauma on their lives is just doubled every, you know, every time it happens, almost expected.

Like it's surprising if they, you know, anyway, what can be.

What do you work with with those.

We do.

So that's a lot of the the kids that we work with in the schools have been impacted by a violent death.

And we know nationally, 75 to almost 90% of the kids that are in the juvenile justice system have had a death occur in their families.

So that goes back to that decision making.

If grief is and we know it's going to affect our mind, our body, our soul, how can we expect kids to make the right kinds of decisions to have the the kind of life we want for them if their grief is not addressed?

You know, you always we are not in a very evolved species, despite how we are awarded ourselves this concept and and to some degree, it's also okay to think, well, why my family has never experienced any grief, why would I?

Why would I suppose this institution?

But I could probably dovetails to the comments you've just made.

If you don't think helping a healthier community people grow up won't affect you so much not supporting the local school system, it's going to be affected.

It it will affect you.

I know that you are a bastion of information on the soft but also the hard.

Some of the stats here have a positive word.

What do you call me?

I don't know, you told me to say this right there, but.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

You got that one.

Good good good good.

This show has Sesame Street as well.

We can't say what we want.

We love that.

But give me some stats here.

Sure.

So we know that in the state of Ohio, it's 1 in 10 kids will experience the death of a parent or sibling by the time they reach 18.

In Lucas County, that number is 1 in 8.

And that only accounts for biological mother, father, sister, brother.

So we know that number is much higher.

And if you look at we also do a young adult group for individuals 18 to 30.

If you look at that 18 to 25 age, that number doubles.

So we have we have basically our youth.

There is at least in any group of ten kids, there's going to be at least one.

That is somebody very close to them has died.

Is that the work that you guys do is so heavy, right.

How do you manage that?

Right.

I mean, how do you, you know, get excited to go to work and, you know, separate the trauma and the challenges of your day to day from from trying to also be a positive, loving person.

Well, because our goal and what I realized happened in my own life, it stops being this thing that happened to you and it becomes part of who you are, like it's integrated into your life.

And that's what we're helping kids figure out.

Like, what is the world going to look like now that my person is no longer there?

How am I going to move through my life?

And we laugh a lot.

Yeah.

And and actually a group of kids, you might think that, you know, every, every time we're all together, it's very dour.

It's basically a group of kids, just like any other group of kids.

They're trying to wrap their heads around what's happened.

Yeah, sometimes there's a motion, but generally speaking, they're very matter of fact about.

What has happened.

What that means for me right now, what that means for me in the future.

And kids can be kids pop in and out of grief.

Generally, they can't handle strong emotion for long periods of time, and that can be confusing to the grown ups around them.

Like, I don't think I don't think she's really bothering her, or clearly she can turn this on and off.

And we're just here to say that that's how kids do it.

That's really helpful.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it must be nice just to have just to be in the group with other kids that are talking about this.

I mean, if nothing else.

Yes.

You're yeah, you're around other people that know and can recognize what you're going through.

Yes.

Very true.

You guys have got a big event coming up.

We do, we do.

We have our it's called raising Hope.

It is a benefit auction.

But it's also and it's, I should say June 25th from 6 to 9 at The Pinnacle in Miami.

But it's more than just an event.

It's a chance for us to get this community together to really make a difference.

And I should say that our services are completely free.

Nobody ever pays to participate.

So we we rely on the community to to help keep that possible.

What kind of outcomes have you seen an example of, of someone, a kid that just did exceptionally well in your program?

Yeah, well, two things about that.

One, I do have an example that always comes to mind.

The other thing is, and this can be hard sometimes for our volunteers, is we may not always see the fruits of this labor.

Sure we are.

We are granting permission for kids to feel and speak the way they need to about their reality.

Yeah, and there may not be any other place.

You know, kids, most of the places kids spend their time are not set up to support them in grief.

And so it's just that bit that they either have to tamp down or, you know, metaphysically leave it home because it's not going to be welcomed here.

So we're trying to make sure that's why these conversations are so important.

Okay.

We're talking with Dorothy McAdam from Good Grief of Northwest Ohio.

The work you're doing is incredible is I've used this term to describe other people.

When I say you're an absolute rock star.

You also happen to actually be a rock star.

I didn't know you knew about that.

Yeah.

Yep.

I'm in a band.

Yeah.

So what?

How long have you been doing that?

Pretty much my whole adult life.

Yeah.

Often?

Never.

What's the.

What's the band?

Our band is called Athens Wheeler.

Okay.

We just played last weekend.

I'm still getting over that tired at Village Idiot and Mommy, and we're going to be playing.

And you're a vocalist.

I am, yeah, right.

I've seen it.

You guys are great.

Oh.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Dorothy, people want more information on.

Good grief.

Where can they find it?

Our website.

Good grief.

Nwokolo for take it.

Take a spin around or give us a call.

Awesome.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we'll talk with Randy.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by T. We're joined now by Randy Muth with Lucas County Children's Services.

Randy, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

You're new to children's service Talk to us about I guess let's start with what is Lucas County Children's Services.

And maybe that might be the next 14 minutes explaining all the work you guys do.

What brought you to that organization?

Well, I'm not new to children's services.

I'm new to Lucas County Children's Services.

It's been in the field about 27 years.

Lucas County Children's Services is the public children service agency.

Every county has one.

Our role is to protect children and lead the community and strengthening families.

Randy, you and I met when you first got here.

Remind me how long that has been.

Three years?

Yeah, a little over two years.

Over two years?

Yeah.

Well, I we are friends, although we only see each other at work, which is how people prefer to see me.

So you started out in just doing well.

Not that the work is ever easy.

And there is.

There's certainly a need for this, but I don't know that people understand all the services that are in the umbrella of Lucas County Children's Services.

You moved into a new location, which is certainly great and provides an opportunity for a new lease on life, but literally, metaphorically.

But talk to me about all the things that are provided underneath your umbrella.

Yeah, that's that's a great point, Matt.

And I think if you were to ask the average person on the street what is children's services, do they tell you two things?

They go out, they find kids who are abused, and then they put them in foster care.

And that's pretty much where I think their knowledge ends.

I agree.

Unfortunately.

Well, fortunately, that's actually where the real work begins for us.

So we do do those things.

I mean, we do assess families for safety when it's not safe for children remain in the home.

We do find substitute care.

It's not always foster care.

In fact, very few of the families that we serve are have their children in foster care.

When it is necessary for a child to not reside in the home, the next best thing is a relative or a kinship provider.

What I mean by kinship is somebody who may not be related by blood, but has a long standing relationship with that child.

It's so important because the outcomes for children that are in kinship placement are so much better than those that are in foster care.

So we have three full time people.

We call them FSC family Search and engagement.

Their job is to find relatives, engage those relatives and then support the relatives to make that placement stable.

It was interesting to me years ago, I kind of learned the concept of the goal of foster care is really to get the kids back to their back to their parents.

And that was surprising to me.

I don't know why it was, but but it just was.

I mean, the thought of a child being taken from their parents because, you know, if something the parents had done or there's a there's a need for the parents to focus on themselves.

But ultimately your goal is to get those kids back with those parents.

And that's that's what most people don't realize.

And that's where the real work begins.

That's where we spend the bulk of our time.

Helping those parents resolve whatever issues led to the initial intervention.

A lot of times families come to us.

They're in the worst state of their lives.

Our goal is to help them get back and then make their life better.

And we spend a we spend up to a year, sometimes up to two years, making that happen.

Ready.

I it's a comment that you just made is is a good dovetail into my next question.

You are you've inserted yourself professionally in some of the most difficult experiences in time.

People's lives, just in lives in general.

How on earth did you get into this work?

How do you stay the leader and what I mean by that.

So I guess this is a little bit twofold to not just about you personally, but you just mentioned three full time individuals.

You have a staff who are also dealing with this on a daily basis in their human beings as well.

How do you how did you get into this work, and how do you keep yourself get on the bed in the morning and keeping everybody in the ship?

Right.

It must be daunting in early 22 years old.

You look terrible.

Thank you.

Well, you know, I got into this field for the same reason any guy ever does anything for a woman.

Yeah, sure.

I was a law student at the University of Akron.

Didn't even know what Children's Services was.

You're going to do what most law students do.

I'll graduate, go work at the prosecutor's office, get a couple of years of trial experience and go into private practice and make $1 million.

So that's what I did.

Not the million dollars part, but I graduated, went to the prosecutor's office, got about 80 trials under my belt, went into private practice and got appointed to a couple of children's services case representing the parents on that and this one dirty house case.

And the caseworker got to know her a little bit, and she really did a lot of work to get this family back together.

And I said, well, thank you for doing that.

She said, yeah, well, you owe me lunch.

We've been married for 30 years.

Yeah.

So and she is still a child welfare caseworker.

Yeah.

Not for Lucas County.

That would be weird.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Finally you're in charge.

She'd find a way around it.

Yeah, sure.

So, you know, a couple of years after this, we were in opposite sides.

My girlfriend, the caseworker.

I'm the attorney at her and the couple on stand a couple of times and always with disclosure.

But that just.

But, yeah, I fell in love with her.

Then I fell in love with that profession.

Yeah.

So in 1999 and a staff attorney with Stark County Children's Services position opened up.

So I left private practice, reentered public service.

That's where the real money came.

Yeah.

That's right.

Welcome.

The million bucks that went so.

But that's there now.

That's the clinical portion of it talking about the human portion of it.

Although the work is necessary and has real meaning.

And that's a motivator for sure.

I work for an institution whose mission I believe in as well.

But how do you how do you keep at this and how do you keep how do you keep a team at it?

Well, you know, being aware of the effect that this job as a leader, I have to be aware of the fact that this job has on those that are doing it in the field.

And my wife has been at the case level for her entire 34 years in the field.

So she helps me a lot with that.

Yeah.

Recognizing the signs of secondary trauma okay.

Compassion fatigue burnout compassion fatigue is a is a fascinating concept.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I guess and I frequently rail and the fact that we are not involved species.

And I also don't think the apocalypse is upon us either.

But phrases like that make me think that maybe we are getting it and getting a little bit better.

I interrupted you.

No.

That's okay.

I was, you know, Children's services usually comes into a situation at the worst possible time.

Something bad has happened.

Yeah, someone has been reported.

There's been a call that's been made.

Does your agency do anything proactive?

You know, parents don't know what they're doing.

A lot of times, yes.

There's two examples right here.

Just kidding.

Thank you.

But, you know, it's hard.

It's a tough job.

It's it's tough to raise kids.

Who's helping if it's not you?

If you know who's helping parents be better, be the best they can be.

Keep their kids safe.

Is does Lucas County Children's Services involve themselves in a proactive approach?

We do.

And thank you for that question.

Yeah, we actually have a program called the Parent Empowerment Institute.

You mentioned being a parent is tough, and a lot of times you don't know what to do, especially if you didn't have the best parents yourself.

So we've established the Parent Empowerment Institute, which is a parent education program that is primarily designed to work in the community before there's a referral to our agency, and it's met with a lot of success.

We have a lot of graduates.

They speak highly of that program.

We also it's important to understand, though, to the caseworkers are not actual direct service providers or case managers.

So we are working to gather the mental health professionals here in the community and look at how can we get more intentional about wrapping services around families when there's an identifier need before it reaches the level of a child welfare referral?

And we had our first convening on March 3rd in about 30 community providers.

But we brought in representatives from Casey Family programs to actually to to do exactly what you're saying.

Let's get involved earlier, more comprehensively, more coordinated, so that we can prevent entries into the child welfare system.

We're talking with Randy Muth with Lucas County Children's Services.

You've been on the job for about two years.

Part of that certainly is is sort of an assessment of services, you know, community, reputation, all of that.

To that end.

You guys are engaging in a community wide survey right now.

Correct.

Talk to us about what that what it is and how and why people should participate.

Yeah.

So we have launched a countywide survey.

We're asking everybody to take it.

Please.

You can do it very easily.

Just go to our website.

Lucas.

Net, as soon as you do that, first thing you'll see is the survey click on.

It takes about 6 to 8 minutes.

We're going to ask you a little bit about who you are, what your demographics are.

We're going to ask you how familiar are you with the 27 different services that we provide?

Yeah, sure.

So we're going to ask you to rate the your opinion of our effectiveness with all of those and then rate your level of satisfaction.

Then there's a separate section we're going to ask you, have you ever directly received services from Children's Services?

The answer to that question is yes.

There'll be about 5 or 6 more because we want to know how.

How was that experience?

The answer no.

You're done.

What is that?

What do you plan to do with that data?

It is also in Spanish.

It's all in Spanish.

Also.

I was just kidding.

Sorry.

Really?

Two things.

First is, we want to know what the community thinks.

We want to be responsive to the community.

We want to know what their priorities are.

So will you use that?

Second reason is this.

I take a minute to explain it.

About a year ago, the county commissioners convened a panel of 27 stakeholders residents to do nothing but lend their time experience to in thinking about how can we make children's services better.

They've been doing this.

This was all after the Latino case and the.

And the.

Right, right.

Yeah.

And they've been doing it for about a year.

Twice a month.

Two hours volunteer.

And they are really close to wrapping up.

We are getting their final recommendations here in about another month or two.

And we want to honor that work.

We want to honor that sacrifice.

We want to implement those recommendations in good faith and as best we can.

So that's the second point.

So we're doing this one now be like a baseline.

We're going to get the recommendations implement them.

And then maybe a year year and a half two years.

Read the same survey to see if we've moved the needle where we've where we've made progress, where we need to make further progress.

So it's so important.

Thank you for that.

It's so important that we get that baseline and that we have that understanding so that we can gauge how well are we validating the work of these 27 individuals over the last year.

And where can people find the survey?

Lucas.

Kids net.

And it's going from how long do they have to take it?

Right now we're we're planning on closing May 17th.

Unfortunately, our response rate at this point is not as great as I'd like to see, but we might be able to extend that.

Okay.

And you're working on our day jobs.

We will plug in to help get that message out as well.

Absolutely.

And you're working with an independent consultant.

So it's not this is someone can fill this out and not feel like, oh, Randy's going to find out that I didn't like that monster.

Randy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

For for.

Yes.

It's amazing.

Associates has developed.

And as a minister, even though you can access it on our website.

We have a contract with maze.

It is going straight to them.

They get all the individual responses.

They are contractually prohibited from telling us any individual responses.

What they'll do is aggregate that information and send it back to us.

As you're kind of doing an assessment on the organization.

What were some of the kind of early impressions of children's services and and what's something that that you've found tends to be sort of a common misnomer in the community about this organization?

I think the common misnomer is that we want to take your children.

We absolutely do not.

We want to It's just the opposite.

We want to do absolutely everything we can to prevent us from having your children.

You know what attracted me to Lucas County is, you know, like I said, I've been a director for 20 years and two other counties.

And the reputation of Lucas County Children's Services statewide and on the national level is excellent by virtue, just simply by virtue of my position as director, not because of me.

Casey family chose Franklin County, Hamilton and Lucas County to go to D.C.

for a high level meeting with the administration, the Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Because the reputation of Lucas County Children's Services so, so high.

Incredible.

Randy, thank you so much for joining us.

One more time for that website for the survey.

Yeah, Lucas, kids get great.

Awesome.

We'll take a break.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this Tuesday edition of the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

Wrap up a Tuesday edition.

Heavy topics today, so we didn't quite get to our normal 419 quiz, but let's do it.

It's now time for Richard's wacky quiz for rapid fire questions.

Gretchen, we're putting you on the hot seat for me.

Okay.

Which bad habits annoy you the most?

You're breathing.

You're talking.

People that stand too close to me on line.

Have you ever regretted any decisions?

You made this show.

If you want $1 million, what would you buy?

I would fund Hope Toledo.

If you could speak any language, what would it be?

German.

What's trying to do?

In one word.

Delightful, delightful.

Nice job.

All right.

Thank you.

Huge thanks to our guests are being a great jam.

I get it, it's you bring anybody on that's passionate about their work, and I get excited about the conversation with them.

Jesse, obviously passionate about running in the running community.

And then, of course, Dorothy and Randy, you know, serious, heavy topics, tough work, but passionate about the work they do.

And we're lucky to have them.

They're lucky.

If you missed any part of today's show, you can catch it online 20 473 65 at.

419 or download the new and improved app, of course.

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on what connects channel 30.4 The Box.

Really?

I felt good about the time I started, yes, but it might be a little much.

Yeah, you could be on the program.

Email us.

Yeah.

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