>> we continue our conversation about how we all can help keep Kentucky kids out of danger in recognition of child abuse prevention month.

We're joined by Joel C, Fred, of Prevent Child Abuse, Kentucky to talk about how the organization strives to educate communities, families and children about abuse and ways we can all know what to do if we see something and how to say something that's now on connections.

Thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

We are continuing our discussions about preventing child abuse and recognition of April being child abuse Prevention month.

And we're joined today by the executive director of Prevent Child Abuse, Kentucky, who works every day to inform parents and the community at large about how to keep kids safe, provide tips to parents and caregivers and even kids on setting boundaries and how to protect our kids from harm jail.

Thank you so very much for being here.

We don't see you often enough.

And I know that April, you are doing so much because it is the montz where we really try to elevate this issue.

But you are committed all year round to helping keep kids safe.

We know that reporting during COVID in 2021. that they were reports related to abuse were down, which sounds like good news.

But then the near death and death child fatalities from abuse, despite 22% from last sure than the previous year.

So what do you take away from those types of statistics?

Well, first of all, thanks for having me.

Appreciate I wish I had a magic wand that I could.

>> Waive and have all the answers.

But but we do know something.

So mental health issues during the pandemic certainly increased substance misuse, certainly increased during the pandemic.

And we know that domestic violence also increased during the pandemic.

So people are, you know, cooped up at home and tempers flare and there's no role model at home for how to be a good parent and you mix all that and it's a very volatile situations.

that's just Jill Seaford talking.

Yeah, I don't know for sure.

But if if I had to make a guess, I would say that.

>> Well, we've heard a lot of policy discussion and those spaces about how because COVID had shut down the normal operations of school of in-person learning that you didn't have educators and bus drivers and all of those who normally interact with kids to say, okay, something's going on with Suze our Tommy.

That's not right.

And then they weren't in a position to report it because they weren't saying it.

Do you think that that's Definitely.

And what we also this really registered with me when I first heard it that we had.

Kids who are home that did not want.

>> To log on virtual learning because they didn't want other people to see the environment in which they were so, you know, teachers are in a position of not having kids reporting in and knowing that something isn't quite right.

So that that definitely.

Yeah.

You know, it's interesting hearing on this side of COVID, how heartbreaking it really is.

And knowing that teachers had all kinds of frustrations during that period.

And I can't imagine trying to teach children remote and a distance learning environment, but not fully understanding maybe with that child is enduring at That's that this heartbreaking.

And we I was talking to a friend of mine the other day over at U K. We know that the admissions, the teen admissions for attempted suicides are significantly up over last year.

So we know that there are kids youth, the teenagers that are in trouble.

>> Do you count the statistics of kids and teenagers who try self-harming?

As child abuse?

We don't as prevent child abuse.

I'm not sure in rise of >> the U K and in, you know, some of the Haas Little's how that is a perceived upon admission right?

And we've heard it and we've had a couple of conversations about a child of these particular this month.

But before.

>> About how we often think of stranger danger, that term that lexicon that started back.

I mean, when I was going through school, but we know that it's not the stranger that we should really be.

Larry.

Alright, people who might occupy our same house back when we were growing up, you know, it was the the stranger in the trench coat that was on the corner.

And, you know, don't do this and don't do that.

And and while we certainly want to make sure that our kids are safe and you know, we don't want them to be going with strangers, but we know that 90% >> of sexual abuse of children occurs at the hands of someone that the child in the family, no less so 90%.

So it's not typically it's not the stranger riots.

You know, it's the coach.

It's the next door neighbor's the person down the street.

It's the unfortunately the person that you might worship with.

So its people in your child's life that have gained the trust of the child and the intentionally.

So we call that and many people don't know that it's happening.

They don't know the word for it.

But it's called grooming.

It's it not to be confused with personal hygiene.

Sure, but it is grooming a child and a family for that particular instance are instances of sexual abuse, right?

You're building that trust only to exploit that child at which if you're in a situation where you're.

>> You may be appreciative of the fact that someone outside of your immediate household or family or community has taken an interest in your child because maybe that child needs some extra attention.

How do you distinguish between what could be really have been 9 relationship versus when it crosses over into this very dangerous territory will in you hit the nail on the head that we know that that certainly not all.

I don't want it.

There's always exceptions to every rule.

But most situations, the the perpetrator.

specifically grooms that child and the family.

It's a child who is maybe left home because mom or mom and dad.

>> Both work there's a child who shows up to soccer or tee ball or baseball and they're always alone.

So somebody notices that in, hey, can I give you a ride home?

And you know, it starts very innocently But soon that perpetrator knows I'm a lot about the child and the child's family.

And often the perpetrator will say, you know, this is just our secret.

Your mom doesn't need to know where your dad doesn't need to know.

They've got enough on their plates.

You don't need to burden them with, you know, this is just our secret.

So that's why we always talk about that open communication between the parent or the caregiver and the child.

I love it on your Web site and we're actually going to put up some of these tips.

>> That you have for helping kids understand how to set boundaries and and how to even talk with your child about and you in the says, you know, it's never really too early.

I mean, as early as a toddler to talk to a child about their body call their body by appropriate names, right?

I mean, talk to us about that.

Will you know again that hard for people in my generation, my parents never time to me.

Yeah, it.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Oh, no.

Here we are.

You know, decades later saying this is what we have to do.

So we even recommend when when your >> child is is a baby and you are diaper ing your child will start using the correct body parts because then as your infant gets older, it's going to be more comfortable for you.

And then your infant is going to gradually hear those words from you and other people who may be taking care him or her right.

we have a whole training on how child development is.

Absolutely a child.

Sexual abuse prevention tool, right?

Healthy child development.

And we'd we would think perhaps that we are forcing a conversation, a mature conversation.

Much too soon that it may actually lead to a promise.

Que 80 of a child or other.

>> Deviant behaviors respond to We we would take So we also have a video video launched a brand new campaign this month talking about safety and body awareness for And we have a wonderful young lady.

Her name is Charlotte and it's very powerful because she's 10 years old and she is telling the adults, listen, I know this is hard, but you have got to talk to us all right about this stuff because we we we have to hear from you.

And that's going to be somewhere else.

Yeah.

And who doesn't care about you?

I also with it really thought it was interesting about talking about forced affection that when we were growing up.

Well, you got so and so and uncle so and so and you called everybody on tear on cold, even though they had no relation to you.

But you really are advising, you know, let the child decide with home.

They're comfortable showing expressions of love it or not at all.

Yes, I mean, I can.

Again, we we keep talking about what we are.

Yeah, but I can remember around uncles that I was not particularly fond of.

But you had to hug them.

You had to kiss them.

And so that's telling your child from a very early age that the adults are setting the boundaries and really it's the child that needs to set those boundaries, right, and helping me empowering met child to set the boundaries and defending the child, but they say the ankle.

So and so I don't really want to hug you.

Yeah.

And you know, there's so there's education of with the family all the way around.

Absolutely.

And understanding, which is hard for different generations to kind of grasp.

While that's far out thanking what it's all about, kind of protecting kids no teaching kids to be assertive in saying, you know, I don't want to be touched.

They're going to be touched at all because we think especially in the South would you don't want to be rude right?

But if we go back, 2.90%, of the abuses committed by people that the child knows bin.

The child has to be able to differentiate between.

Who can I trust?

Who do I feel comfortable with?

Who?

Who gives me kind of that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

And we have to be able to trust the child to set those boundaries.

That's right.

And abuse comes in all kinds of forms way.

You know this.

Maybe this conversation particular in relation to sexual abuse.

But we know there's physical abuse hitting an and verbal abuse.

So how do you recognized is verbal abuse, something that is highly recognized are recognized at all?

I I dare say that we probably have all heard for ball abuse them.

>> It's very hard to prove.

Emotional abuse is very hard to prove.

Typically it's over the course of several weeks, months, years and sensors, no physical scars.

It's it's very hard to prove.

But again, I would say that most of us can have a conversation with someone who can remember being told that they'll never amount to anything.

They're no good their parents said I don't want to I didn't want to wish I wish that you were dead.

I mean, so if you hear that for years and years and years, your self-confidence is you know, down here And yet we would we would call that verbal and emotional abuse.

The other part of this issue is neglect, which we seem to struggle to have defined over the years and as Senate Bill 8, which we can now transition to talk about, which will become law.

Maybe it already is a bit of an emergency clause was on the bill that really helps differentiate between poverty and neglect.

And tell us why that's important.

It's still important to prevent child abuse.

Kentucky had Kentucky's first neglect summit back in August.

We convene some national folks as well as state leaders.

We a lot of information about what not only what was happening in Kentucky, but some trends in other states.

So we are thrilled with Senate Bill 8 in we thanks, Senator Rocky Adams for her sponsorship in leadership on that.

So it differentiates a portion of that Bill differentiates between poverty and neglect.

Because what we don't want to do in our state or in our country is punished.

Parents and caregivers because they're poor.

You can not have financial resources and still be a really, really good parent.

So there's just a lot of little claws that's added to our definition of neglect that talks if a parent is financially able or not financially able.

And so that will differentiate between that financial ability now.

And what more does Senate do that the system needed for it to have done?

I know that you've had some other folks and you're talking about the fictive kin, right?

That's very important for children who are removed from the home are potentially removed from the home and allowing those those fictive kin take care of those children.

So it it brought in that definition.

The other things, the child Victims Trust which is housed in the attorney general's office.

It expands the definition of what that fund can fund.

So right now they are only able to fund child sexual abuse programs.

It expands the definition so that they can fund all types of prevention programs.

And it also allows an expanded a reimbursement to the children's advocacy centers for Medical exams.

Yeah, right.

Look what did lawmakers not do that?

You wish they would have done when it comes to keeping kids safe and well and back here we did not pass the a prohibition on corporal punishment in the schools and there was even a conversation about that.

The session?

No, no, there was not.

There Representative Riley filed a bill in the House and Senate Chairman Garvey filed a bill in the Senate.

I'm one of them was at least assigned to a committee.

The other one was not, but it was never got a hearing.

Never got a hearing.

What do you think the the block is there?

Are the opposition live.

I think there is.

A little bit of resistance in terms of wanting local school districts to be able to make that decision themselves.

Is this what about lot in the state was okay.

So what what we would argue is let's go ahead and have that.

Ban and let's have an opt option in the legislation that then if you want to use it in your school district, you actually have to go through the process to mop.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's legislation in other arenas that allow for often provision.

Absolutely.

And it was that discussed a mean way.

It has not not this time.

You know, so what for us why that's important is that we know that children of and children who have learning lunges.

Our.

Paddled at school and a disproportionate level compared to other children.

And so you come to school to learn and you already are have some challenges before you even get there.

And then you are peddled.

And and so it we we know, I mean, research and science.

We have a pediatrician at U of L who is ready, willing and able to testify.

It does not help the child in terms of promoting learning and and does it in fact.

Reinforce negative behavior and put them on the trajectory to be involved in the juvenile justice system or other types of behavior.

That is really not helpful to that child.

It it does.

And, you know, our Kentucky has been so great with trauma, informed care like everything.

Everywhere you look, it's right trying yeah.

Like thumbs up to to the commonwealth.

So this is that an anatomical to that yet in many ways, yes, interesting.

I just made some notes about that.

I want to get the name of that.

You develop pediatrician for us to talk to him or her about that this issue because we haven't heard much about that.

My head kind of forget forgotten about that.

And many people would say is that still happening in school is it doesn't >> I believe the number is 19 school zones.

You know 171 ya, right?

So it's it's not a huge number.

But we prevent child abuse.

Kentucky would say if it's happening in one school we know that it's one too many and that there's at least one child in that school district that's being subjected to behavior that is not conducive to that child support right.

So what we've heard a lot about local control and home rule.

Is this something that local school districts, school boards?

>> Could present a proposal to you know, ban in that school district specifically absolute.

Are you all advocating for just that kind of piecemeal approach?

We we have not gone that.

>> Route we're you know, we're still hoping for a full fledge statewide.

And when we've heard in previous years, it hasn't been in a couple of sessions to my recent recollection, we've heard kids testify.

>> Floor the banning corporal punishment.

I think the Prichard Committee, which is now the student voice team as an independent association has has really touched championed this issue as well.

So perhaps in a year when that's not full of tax reform and budget to issues and money from our by that you're trying to spend maybe they'll be more bandwidth in the next session will definitely be back.

Yeah, anything else you wish could have been accomplished on behalf of just prevent child abuse, Kentucky.

We were hopeful of working with the Commonwealth Center for Fathers and families to get budget allocation for fatherhood research again, science statistics indicate when a father is engaged in the life of a child, regardless of whether the father is actually living in the the outcomes for that child increased dramatically a pregnancy declines.

High school dropouts decline health outcomes increase.

It's it's a phenomenal.

All centered around whether there is a father that's positively engaged the life of a child.

Does that also include incarcerated?

Far those as much as they can.

Let me write this.

Wow.

So having that presence and in the absence of a biological father or another male, perhaps equally as important for children of any gender or gender.

I at positive father role model, if not the biological father.

Absolutely.

So some independent single women may kind of raise their eyebrows.

Yeah, that what would you say to those who are concerned about the message that might send, though what I would say and what my good friend David Kosar, who is the project director at Commonwealth Center for Fathers and Families with say is that mothers have to be part of that positive fatherhood engagement.

You can't have one without the other, right?

Right.

And so I assume that there's some kind of education for mothers to understand the important absolute having that evolution.

And we know I mean, we know that that there's tension we we also know that many times the reason why a father is not engaged is because of the relationship with the mother, right?

Right.

This has been a fast-moving hour.

4 minutes left.

So the and that I believe there was an ask for the General Assembly to support that we had a budget requests and it did not make it into the final budget right?

So how is that group sustaining financially?

It is a fledgling organization that right now has a contract.

But that contract picks buyers at the end of June.

that organization will be looking for for fun.

Yeah, and it's statewide is what they did is they want to do and there's still hope.

I mean, the legislators are coming back.

Yeah, hope.

Yeah.

By the time this airs on Sunday, they would have done what they were going to be.

But we certainly will provide an update if there's some movement on that, anything else that hope that in 2023 can't.

We're even talking about that already that they'll consider an are you optimistic that Senate Bill 8 will make a true difference?

I hope so.

And and what I what I see and I think what a lot of advocates are seen is the tendency now to be moving towards upstream, catching kids before they get into, you know, the There's a great graphic that shows the bridge and an ambulance and, you know, catching kids before they drop over the water and before they need the ambulance.

We want to catch them as they're walking along the before they need those services right and the UN and helping the parents help them cross safely.

Absolutely not.

And the choppy waters when we think about these little pinwheel buttons, they're the pens that were wearing.

Tell us the significance of pin wheels is particular.

We see these during April.

Thanks so much for asking.

And a lot of people just say, well, that's a cute pin The significance is we want people to stop and say why are you wearing that >> Renee and we want Renee to be able to say I'm supporting child abuse prevention efforts in the state.

And did you know that it takes 10 minutes there.

There are 10 things that you can do in 10 minutes to prevent child abuse and neglect in our state.

And we're all obligated right to Fort.

Everyone is a mandated reporter, although we want to candid gradually transition that because we want people to think of being supportive rather than reporting by how can I support the child next door?

Can I support the family next door?

How can I support the family that I see coming to, you know, some youth instead of being investigatory and reporting.

So it's it's a mindset switch.

It's a paradigm shift, but we want people 2 to think about how can I said Port families that I know are in need more that I think are in need because oftentimes we think that we shouldn't cry.

It's none of my business and it's hard.

You know, it's hard to open that conversation and so the whole point of the pinwheel is awareness and understanding that you can make a difference in the life of a child.

And if you don't speak up, then who is going to do that for that?

Well, your website, your website addresses www.

Not sure if you still say that.

And I PCA K why Dot org yet.

PCA K why dot or really simple.

And because there are there are some great information on there.

I was able to peruse a little deeper that I had before.

Now was the tip sheets that you all have are very informed.

If you really want to know >> how to get involved and help protect our kids.

That's a good site to check out.

Thank you.

Joseph rates set free is set friend.

We talked about how to set your mind and say, Fred, thank you.

Jill, thank you.

Pleasure.

Thank you.

And thank you for watching this edition of connections.

Are discussions about child abuse prevention.

It really is up to all of us.

We hope that we'll see you very soon.

In the meantime, take good care.